Rod Liddle

How Moore, Burchill and Featherstone all had a lovely bitch fight

19 January 2013

9:00 AM

19 January 2013

9:00 AM


‘Women are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being loved properly and not having the ideal body shape — that of a Brazilian transsexual.’
Suzanne Moore

One of these days, not too far away, the entire bourgeois bien-pensant left will self-immolate entirely leaving behind nothing but a thin skein of smoke smelling slightly of goji berries. Please let that day come quickly. In the meantime let us simply enjoy ourselves watching them tear each other to pieces, mired in their competing victimhoods, seething with acquired sensitivity, with inchoate rage and fury, inventing more and more hate crimes with which they might punish people who are not themselves.


That quote above comes from the very talented feminist writer Suzanne Moore. It is a sentence from a piece she wrote for the New Statesman. You would not believe the trouble it has caused. The Twittersphere immediately started roaring like a pre-menstrual velociraptor, there were demands for an apology and a rebuttal, there was a somewhat robust defence of the original sentence and then, as a consequence, a government minister called for the editor of an august — well, not quite august, more like late June — national newspaper to resign. The debate is still howling around. It may be — in terms of national importance — nothing more than 5,000 bald women and bald quasi-women arguing over a comb. But it gives you an insight into the metro left’s bizarre psychosis. Oh, and it’s fun, it’s fun. It’s certainly that.

That anodyne sentence above, which is presumably meant to express the pressure women feel to conform to a particular body-type, was taken amiss by Britain’s vibrant community of transsexuals. They eviscerated Moore for doing what I just did and referring to them as transsexuals rather than transsexual people, but also stuck the boot in by suggesting that the writer was mocking their gender, was perhaps bullying them. Undoubtedly, they asserted online and later in print, this was evidence of deviance — not sexual deviance, but deviation from political correct orthodoxy; Moore was revealing an inner hatred of transsexual people. And she was cissexist. Now there’s a term. Have you heard it before? I hadn’t. It is a wonderful day when we can stumble across a new hate crime of which we might all one day be accused: cissexism is the suspicion that transsexual people’s ‘identified gender’ is somehow less genuine than that of people born to the gender in which they remain. Are you guilty of cissexism? You bastard.

The fugue of hatred poured down upon Moore, but to her credit she disdained what we might call an apology. Instead, she tweeted: ‘People can just fuck off really. Cut their dicks off and be more feminist than me. Good for them.’ You see, there is a scintilla of mistrust between traditional feminists like Moore and these arriviste liberationists — arriviste in a physical sense, at least. As you might imagine, this tweet did not placate Ms Moore’s tormentors. It made things worse. The trannies went ballistic; they threw their toys out of the pram. And that was before they read the piece written by Moore’s friend and ideological soulmate, Julie Burchill. One very witty commentator online put it thus: ‘Julie Burchill poured oil on troubled waters. Then she put some seabirds in the oil. Then she set fire to the oil.’ Describing the transsexuals as ‘screaming mimis’ and ‘bedwetters in bad wigs’, Julie concluded her defence of Suzanne Moore with the following wonderful sentence: ‘To have your cock cut off and then plead special privileges as women — above natural-born women, who don’t know the meaning of suffering, apparently — is a bit like the old definition of chutzpah: the boy who killed his parents and then asked the jury for clemency on the grounds he was an orphan.’ She wrote that in the Observer — easily the best piece the paper has carried in a decade.

At which point the government got involved. No, it really did. Its most idiotic minister, the Liberal Democrat Lynne Featherstone — again utilising that conduit for the shriekingly self-obsessed and vapid, Twitter — described Burchill’s article as ‘bigoted vomit’ and suggested that both she and the editor of the Observer, a man called John Mulholland, should be sacked immediately. Should government ministers do that sort of thing, demand the sacking of newspaper editors? Even if they are incalculably stupid ministers with a track record of saying incalculably stupid things? She is the minister for International Development these days, Featherstone, so it is not even part of her brief. Although I suppose it is part of her brief as a non-cissexist heterosexual woman, in a very real sense.

How did Mr Mulholland respond? Did this titan of the press, this staunch and stoic defender of freedom of speech stand by his columnist? Um, not exactly. He instead apologised for having run Julie Burchill’s article and within the hour the piece had been expunged from the joint Guardian-Observer website, no trace of it remaining. But in making his apology Mulholland did say that the Observer supported freedom of speech and did so terribly bravely sometimes. Just, er, not this time.

All of this is unrelievedly hilarious; the metro-left is filled with loathing — self-loathing and a loathing it disperses to anyone who might even mildly offend its sensibilities. But we have learned something, at least, from this spat. We have learned two new concepts: first, ‘cissexism’ of course — but also ‘bigoted vomit’.

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Show comments
  • George Igler

    Great stuff!

    • Sean Lamb

      I dunno, isn’t Julie Burchill’s comment “above natural-born women, who don’t know the meaning of suffering” every bit a special pleading for victimhood?

      How exactly is being a female columnist for a nation wide sunday paper a qualification for knowing the meaning of suffering simply on the grounds of being a woman?

    • Noa

      “Cis, cissupremacy, and cissexism are words I use a lot when I’m discussing trans people
      – people whose gender or sex does not match the gender or sex forced
      upon them by their doctors and parents at birth. Cis and related terms
      are newish, and they are not very familiar terms to many, so I am
      offering a simple definition of these three terms and an explanation of
      why I use them.”

      The gender or sex forced on them at birth? How do these cissies think of these things?

      more at

  • Jon Watt

    Fantastic article. I’m still crying with laughter….

  • Chris

    I like the term metro-left. As a (sensible) lefty myself, it allows me to distance myself from these fucking maniacs giving the rest of us a bad name.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Sensible lefty is an oxymoron with or without brackets. You are more likely to encounter a Centaur in the woods.

      • mumble

        You’re a crusty old fart, and we love you for it.

      • TheEponymousBob


        • Colonel Mustard

          Indeed. Thank you for demonstrating the divergence so well.

          • TheEponymousBob

            Your inane comment deserved no more. Those who make such sweeping generalisations are in no place to speak on sensibility (and yes, I include the comment by sweetpea above).

          • Colonel Mustard

            God, now you sound like the bald eagle in the Muppet Show. I think I prefer the first comment.

          • TheEponymousBob


      • DGStuart

        As someone who is self styled right wing I would say that isn’t really true – there are sensible lefties,just that we tend to hear much more from the lunatic ones.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Yes, indeed, plenty of quislings and cuckoos on the right these days.

          • DGStuart

            Wrong. Unlike your knee jerk reaction, I recognise the genuine and sensible minded even when I don’t necessarily agree with it. We don’t have a monopoly on the truth.

            Rod Liddle for example describes himself as ‘of the Left’.

          • Colonel Mustard

            Right. But not in your case, however. In other words wrong and not very right either. The rest of your pompous twaddle is superfluous – genuineness and truth not being discussed. One can be genuine and insensible and one can be insensible and speak the truth.

            So, I suggest with respect, that you find another target, preferably the real enemy, and wind your neck in. I note that you have not jumped in with your two big feet to challenge any of the lefties posting here. Odd that.

          • DGStuart

            So I’m pompous for not accepting from you the label of ‘quisling’? How does that work?

            Maybe you should wind your own neck in. You’re the one being pompous it seems to me.

            As to challenging any of the lefties on here, well I haven’t read through the entire list of comments.

          • Icebow

            Hmmm…. a touch of irony on his part, perhaps.

      • Sweetpea

        Like “compassionate conservative”?

        • Colonel Mustard

          I’m afraid not, old thing. I’ve met plenty of compassionate conservatives in my many long years but never a sensible lefty. I think the indignant are jumping to the wrong conclusions about “lefty”. Some members of the Labour party I knew way back when were not really “lefties”. It is a fairly modern creation.

      • Icebow

        I met a centaur in the woods the other day. He’s a member of UKIP, and a Daily Mail Reader, as is his mare. By the way, an oxymoron isn’t quite the same as a contradiction (though of course I take your point).

    • David Lindsay

      This could be our moment. I reckon that That Article, which I agree was brilliant, might have been Julie Burchill’s
      pitch for the column on the newly Ed Balls-loving Sun on Sunday which
      has therefore been vacated by her old enemy Toby Young, who is accordingly now
      back down on the farm.

      But that strikes me as more of an opportunity for
      the Maurice Glasman column that never quite happened, or to give a regular
      platform to the increasingly ubiquitous Neil Clark.

      The revival of paleo-Labour
      is something that is almost completely ignored by the media, even after today’s call from Ed Miliband, channelling Bryan Gould from the other side of the world and Peter Shore from the other side of the grave, for the repatriation of industrial and regional policy so that, you know, a British Government can have an industrial and regional policty.

      That is now the dominant tendency or sensibility in
      and around the party that is at 43 per cent in the polls. Yet even Rowenna Davis’s Staggers
      posts have become very infrequent. For all Burchill’s stylistic brilliance,
      Davis’s views are the ones that now demand a wider hearing.

    • Daniel Peter Justin McCarthy

      I like the phrase ‘sensible lefty’.All oxymorons should be treasured.

  • Iz

    replace casual transphobia with casual sexism and harp on about freedom of speech without a hint of a nod to responsible journalism, bang on a picture of a pair of faceless bare legs and voila – where have the intelligent commentators gone? journalism becomes more juvenile and irresponsible by the hour

    • mumble

      Is casual transphobia better or worse than the regular kind?

      • Mike Grace

        It’s certainly better dressed.

      • Iz

        Hi mumble – scratch the surface, sometimes it’s unintentional ignorance but 9 times out of 10 as with Moore it transpires it reveals the regular kind

  • Venyanamore


  • Tricia Jewell

    Oh dear, what a pathetic article and the choice of picture says it all. Page 3 mentality alive and well.

    • David Shipley

      Are those not the ‘legs of a Brazilian transexual’.

      • Badly Done Emma

        I’d kill for legs like those! Whoops…….

    • James R

      I must respectfully disagree,Tricia.You don’t see feet that size on page three.

      • Ringstone

        In fact you don’t see many feet on Page 3 at all – so I’m told!

    • mumble

      Page 3 does good in the world; the Outrage Industry, the grief-junkies, the decapitation-proposers and the angstily entitled, not so much.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Oh dear. Po-faced mentality alive and well.

    • Dan

      I see you are exercising your right to be offended by something that is non-offensive, which as an offended person you are well within your rights to be offended by. Any chance of buggering off and making me a nice cuppa sweetheart, chop chop now, there’s a good girl, all this sexist nonsense is making me thirsty

  • J. Cunningham

    From the fact that an individual has the right to free speech it doesn’t follow that it’s a good idea for a given newspaper to publish an article they write. I have a right to free speech, but it doesn’t follow from that that it’s a good idea for, say, the Times to publish a crayon drawing I submit to them. That’s because the crayon drawing is not a worthy piece of journalism. Similarly, if someone submits an article expressing bigoted opinions to a newspaper and they have a right to free speech, it doesn’t follow that it’s a good idea for the newspaper to publish the article. That’s because it expresses bigoted opinions.

    The right to free expression entails that we shouldn’t stop newspapers printing what they like. It doesn’t entail that any article printed by any given newspaper is one which they should have printed.

    In this case, they shouldn’t have printed the article for the same reason that they shouldn’t have printed an article that bluntly expresses racist or homophobic opinions. Merely pointing out that the writer or newspaper has a right to freedom of speech – moral truism though that they may be – does nothing to undermine that thought.

    • John Hall

      The point is not even the quality of the original piece. The issue of freedom of expression only arises from the craven retraction of Mulholland, who must have originally felt the comments worthy of publication in the first instance. That he should do so at the first sign of political censure from a government minister, who doesn’t even have a brief on the subject, is troubling at the very least, wouldn’t you say?

      • FrenchNewsonlin

        Absolutely and its just another manifestation of the post-Leveson effect many were warning about. Freedom of speech and freedom of the individual are indivisible, time to become fundamentalists about freedom of expression and cast Leveson’s tablets of stone from a high cliff.

    • Iz

      ^ should go without saying but sadly on account of these sophists needs to be so nicely put

    • mumble

      The word “bigot” seems to have changed meaning. It used mostly to betoken intolerance, but it is now used as a favourite slur by the intolerant against anyone who happens not to agree with them.

    • Colonel Mustard

      Who decides which opinions are bigoted and why? At the moment it seems coincidentally to be those on the left of politics and those on the right who seek to emulate them. Without publication of dissent, of provocation, of challenge to orthodoxy what is there? East Germany pretty much.

      And a crayon drawing is not an article. Get real please.

    • highlandjock

      Nonsense. It is nothing like being racist. Being a tranny is a liefstyle choice, like being into S & M, NOT something one can do nothing about like the colour of one’s skin.

      • Zoe Ellen Brain

        Nope. That’s not what the data says.

        Specialists have known that since 1995, and suspected it long before.

        A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

        Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically
        male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity
        develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and
        sex hormones

  • gladiolys

    Ummm… what has this got to do with “the Left”? Are you assuming all transexuals who felt insulted are on “the Left”?

    It may well be an issue concerning identity politics which is a concern of some parts of “the Left”, but I’d argue that the biggest defining, and unifying, issue for “the Left” is economics.

    And of course, “the Right” agree with each other about everything don’t they? That will be confirmed, no doubt, over the next few months when everyone is smiley and happy on “the Right” about Europe, immigration, gay marriage…

    • mumble

      I’m still trying to work out how ‘Women … are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being loved properly and not having the ideal body shape — that of a Brazilian transsexual’ is offensive to anyone.

    • Colonel Mustard

      The fact that the right tend to disagree with each other quite a lot, whilst the left on the other hand are more like the Borg in the holding of and vociferous declamation of views with clearly defined labels and causes (which we all know and love) tells you everything you need to know. The right tend to take the piss out of windbaggery and pomposity. The left tend to hold them as a virtue.

      We here can almost guarantee what views the Borg – er, I mean the Left – will hold on the subject of Europe, immigration and gay marriage. We can also guarantee that those who choose to disagree with them will be labelled ‘phobes, deniers, bigots, etc., and hounded mercilessly by outrage and denouncement until they conform.

      Resistance is, after all, useless and we will all be assimilated…

  • Anonymous

    She’s my new hero!

    These grief-junkies can really ruin the internet sometimes.

  • Martin

    ” Oh, and it’s fun, it’s fun. It’s certainly that.”
    Indeed, you’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.

  • Frank Fisher

    As a card carrying Right wing nutjob, I find myself warming to Suzanne Moore; she was one individual against the mob, of course she becomes sympathetic. And then Burchill gets in, with some fierce and funny insults – love it. Today’s Moore piece just puts icing on the cake – she’s nearing the epiphany, the Mad Mel event horizon, it’s dawning on her that the Left is barking bloody mad, and has NOTHING to do with individual freedom. Loving it all.

  • simon

    That is a good read

  • Radford_NG

    Bit late with all this arn’t they?Johns Hopkins University stopped trans-sexual operations 33 years ago on the advice of the Head of Psychiatry who said patients had the some mental problems after as before.A femail psychiatrist said:Gals know Gals,and these are Guys.

    • David Lindsay

      And guys know guys.

      Understandably, since feminism began and has therefore always defined this kind of debate, the concentration is on the views of Suzanne Moore and Julie Burchill where transsexualism is concerned. As it also is from time to time on the views of Julie Bindel, valiant scourge of the “free” market otherwise known as the sex industry since you cannot have one without the other, and insightful, civil-partnered critic of same-sex “marriage” in last week’s Spectator.

      However, whatever might be between the legs of, to use the preferred terminology, a female-to-male transsexual, it is not what I have. It cannot do what mine does. I was born with mine, because I was born and I will die with a Y chromosome in every cell of my body, inherited from my father, and from his father, and on back forever. Without a Y chromosome, you are not a man. You are just not. And aren’t we all supposed to be totally opposed to female genital mutilation? I certainly am, just as I am to male genital mutilation. New birth certificates are State lying, as if we did not already have more than enough of that.

      You can wear whatever you like, but it is what is underneath that matters. You can cut up the tissue in any way that you please, but the chromosomes do not and cannot change. Neither dressing up nor revelling in, and yet in some way simultaneously trying to deny, cuts can ever make you a man. Any more than either dressing up nor revelling in, and yet in some way simultaneously trying to deny, cuts can ever make Thatcherism In Exile into an authentically conservative force. But that is another story. Though not entirely so.

      • Charles Céleste Hutchins

        One of the most common causes of male infertility is having XX chromosomes. A lot of men are very surprised when they get that test result back – men who were identified male at birth, were raised as boys and lived as men their whole lives and just had no inkling what was in their genes. Very few people ever have genetic testing, so there may be men with XX chromosomes who have had kids.

        I assume you, writing this comment, have had genetic testing. Because otherwise, you’re just making a lot of assumptions. About what’s in people’s genes and about what’s in between people’s legs. Or maybe you’ve gone and examine a lot of trans men intimately? In which case it’s kind of rude to talk of your former lovers this way in public.

        • David Lindsay

          I have never examined a “trans man”, and the idea of a sexual relationship between such a person and one such as I strikes me as particularly odd even within the terms of this debate.

          So I ask you, in no sense rhetorically: between the legs of a “trans man”, are there the same organs as are to be found between the legs of a “cis man”? Mercifully, that is a Yes-No question.

          • Zoe Ellen Brain


            That is… if the cis man had suffered genital injury and subsequent surgical reconstruction, or had a congenital genital anomaly and had surgical reconstruction, etc.

            They don’t have testes though, unless Intersex. The prosthetics are pretty good cosmetically, you can’t tell the difference..

            Full Phalloplasty is expensive, takes 12 operations costs $120,000, and only has a 30% success rate.

            Metoidaplasty is preferred by many. They get something comparable n size to a thumb, but it’s fully functional, they can write their name in the snow etc

            Some don’t have surgery at all. No NHS surgeon in the UK does it, so they have to go overseas. As do other men wounded in that area. The Serbian surgeons are very good, having had experience dealing with castrating mines sewn broadly in that country.

            As a G/F of mine with a Trans B/F said “anything more than a mouthful is a waste”.

          • David Lindsay

            In a word, then, no.

      • wycombewanderer

        A pretty similar post to yours over at guardian central has resulted in me being placed on the naughty step of pre- mod.

        What exactly is it about liberals that they refuse to accept science?

        • David Lindsay

          I should be interested to hear of anyone else who has ever actually done paid work for Comment is Free ( yet subsequently been subject to official pre-moderation but in practice an outright ban, for a period now in excess of three years, beginning only a few months after his CiF article was published and remunerated, imposed by the editor of a supposedly rival site, and still in force even against a paying subscriber to the print edition of The Guardian.

    • Zoe Ellen Brain

      This would be the guy who also advised the Vatican that he could cure paedophiles, and that they shouldn’t co-operate with secular authorities, just shift the priests to new parishes?

      The one who wrote that he came to Johns Hopkins with the specific goal of stopping this surgical treatment on ideological grounds?

      Johns Hopkins did cease surgery 33 years ago, when their surgeon left. It was no longer an experimental procedure by then, but mainstream. They’ve referred patients to other surgeons since, and continue to do so today..

  • robheggie1

    absolutely brilliant article. your first paragraph was perfect!

  • Minekiller

    The fact that idiot minister Lynne Featherstone found the time to become involved in this suggests she hasn’t enough to keep her busy at The Department for Dumb Fu*kers in Development (DfID) and thus she provides the excuse to cut the mortgage scheme for the white T-shirt brigade. Really, really funny though. As an earlier poster mentioned – you would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh. It is hilarious.

  • BorderlineFascist
  • The Shambolic Skeptic

    This one of life’s rare moments when I am at a loss of what to say.

  • Guest


  • Knives_and_Faux

    Why do trans insist on dressing like streetwalkers, I’ve encountered more than a few and to a man they wear miniskirts like tarts.

    • The Shambolic Skeptic

      Because they are?

    • FrankS

      I know a couple of trannies who dress like middle aged frumps.

    • Daniel Maris

      Probably for the best. These days most men like to make a chick-check before proceeding…

      • SirMortimerPosh

        Really, are there so many that don’t stand out a mile? I must move in different circles to you.

  • charliebeckett

    Funny piece, but you are making a flawed fundamental assumption. The people who got excited about that story were not ‘the twittersphere’ or the ‘meterosxual left’. A lot of people – probably the vast majority – in both those categories were uninterested in what was quite a niche squabble.

  • biggestaspidistra

    I always thought Julie Birchall might be a transexual you, Rod, working a second job.

    This must to be one of those moments when society shifts and trendy leftish people discover they have become right wing bigots, part of a mysterious passage into old age.

    From the quotes here I’d say the transexuals have got it right. If we substituted transexual with women or gays we could find the same article written every 30 years or so since 1950. Time moves on and has left these journalists behind. Even Julie, It’s not personal, it’s just that the planets shift and leave us all irrelevant.

  • highlandjock

    There’s nothing quite as funny as a man dressed as a woman and protesting that he really is a woman, for God’s sake!! What a hoot these perverts are , and they ARE perverts, because this is a lifestyle choice, NOT a genetic or hormonal, or otherwise physical problem.

    • Wotever

      ..Well, seeing a highland man dressed in his tartan skirt is definitely “quite as funny” don’t you think?

    • Zoe Ellen Brain

      Medical science says differently, that it is a physiological issue.

      For example:

      Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

      == The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the
      BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the
      paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and
      genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological
      basis of gender identity disorder.==

      Girl brain, boy body.

  • FrankS

    What would a white man who self identifies as a black man do. Might he find himself gazing wistfuly at a picture of the Black and White Minstrels Show?

  • disqus_F69i30QXOE

    Brilliant wish I’d seen the Burchill article

  • Raoul Duke

    Excellent! Who needs the Roman Games?

  • FrankS

    I gather Moore’s original offence was to say “transsexual” rather than “transsexual person”. In such a minute sliver of nuance rests the difference between screaming outrage and petulant indifference.
    How much further can the bar of offence be lowered?

    • Charles Céleste Hutchins
      • FrankS

        Well the bit about “microaggresion” is a revealing insight into the salami-slicing mentality of offenceophiles. Be it sub atomically small, a slight is still a slight.
        And I must admit I hadn’t appreciated the double whammy dealt to trans people who suffer prejudice not just because of their gender migration, but because as result of this, they now suffer all the hostility aimed at women. which of course is what they now are.

    • Wotever

      You gathered wrong. Try again after acquainting yourself with the facts

      • FrankS

        Well yes, I thought it was bit far fetched but that’s what some people have been saying.

        So Moore made the mistake of suggesting Brazilian Trannies are a model of impossible female beauty.

        If I were a Brazilian Trannie, I’d be saying “Wish you looked like me? Dream on bitch – I am a self-made woman.”

        • moraywatson

          Exactly. This is all about jealousy over hips.

          • Minicapt

            Screaming hippies?


    • SirMortimerPosh

      What would you expect from men mad enough to have their bits chopped off…. I mean, can you imagine how crazy you would have to be to do that?

  • Chris Marshall

    I assume I have the freedom to call you an utter cunt Mr Liddle, and not have it removed, because a cunt you certainly are, something you prove every time you write an article. If this comment is removed where is the credibility of this publication which was once edited by the extraordinarily stupid Mayor of London? Your court.

    • FrankS

      Funny choice of insult – isn’t that what trannies aspire to have?!

      • SirMortimerPosh

        I think they’d give their dicks to have one. Of course, that isn’t going to work, whatever expensive flapology they have done by plastic surgery. The real thing is quite remarkable. I’m a great fan. It may be imitated, but can never be equaled.

    • Icebow

      Personally I never use ‘cunt’ as a swear word, but rather regard it with due reverence. However, what I really meant to say was that if there is one thing that Boris Johnson isn’t, it’s stupid.

  • Chris Marshall

    Nothing more right-wing than an ex left-winger.

    • David Lindsay

      But Rod isn’t one. They come out of “bourgeois bien-pensant left”, which they redefine as the essence of Western civilisation, to be “defended” against this and that while imposed by force of arms upon the ends of the earth.

      • Lesley Stafford

        “bourgeois bien-pensant left” – sheesh, is that the most stupid thing I have ever read. It’s close!

        • David Lindsay

          You didn’t read very far in this article, did you?

          • BorderlineFascist
          • BorderlineFascist

            actually David, I’v read you’re extremely boring blog, I have no idea what you are talking about in the main. Waffle waffle and more weaffle tranny darling- much love and all that sweetpea but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about darling

  • beatonthedonis

    Makes a change from reading about Tories tearing themselves apart over Yerp and gay marriage, I suppose. I presume normal service will resume sometime on Friday afternoon.

  • Simon Fay

    Nice pair of legs up there. That post-post-feminism’s bitch-fight has spilled over to include wretched ****-ups within its nebulous-through-being-womanly borders is both funny and another sign of the last days of Rome.

  • Picquet

    Excellent article; now I hope some screeching Liberal Minister demands it be culled.

  • pollik

    Minor correction…a non-trans (this bit is important, non-trans) feminist tweeted compliments about the piece, but questioned the brazilian transsexual reference. Moore went apeshit and tweeted a number of rabit transphobic remarks. It was at THAT point that the trans community got involved.

    All Moore needed was to acknowledge that adding a trans reference to an otherwise good piece (and it was a good piece), was like adding a smiley face to the Mona Lisa and change to, oh I dunno, Barbie doll? Pamela Anderson wannabe?

    Anyways, it was the post piece twitter rant that stirred the hornet’s nest, not the piece itself.

    You also missed another new concept – clickbait. Google it..I am not doing all the work for you.

    • Lesley Stafford

      Thank you. Common sense!

  • Wotever

    This article is simply nonsense. Moore had a Twitter disagreement with a
    woman who picked her up on her Brazilian comment, no big deal. And the
    woman wasn’t even ‘trans’. It might have been all over in a second. The
    woman who politely challenged Moore’s comment was actually a fan.

    no. Moore decided to go off into a hissy fit foul mouthed rant about
    about ‘transsexuals’ lopping off bits of their bodies, etc. and we saw
    the real bigotry behind Moore’s ‘right on’ mask. Embarrassed she
    flounced off.

    Then Burchill defended her pal with all the tact of
    an idiot on alcohol and came across equally embarrassingly as a woman
    trying to be tough who thinks by acting like a rude dickhead man, will
    achieve that.

    The rest is only an exercise in digging yourself deeper in shit, when you are wrong.

    • Daniel Maris

      Excuse me, I find that term “dickhead” applied to a man offensive. Our genitalia are not a term of abuse.

      Yours sincerely,

      Willy Brain

      • Wotever

        If the cap fits…..

  • Hypatia Vasilios

    I look forward to the army of trans-activists demanding Rod Liddle be sacked for using the terms “bitch-fight” “bald quasi-women” and trannies”. And then reported to the police for hate crime. But I somehow don’t think they will, because they only target feminists.

    • Lesley Stafford

      Try to avoid sounding too silly. The idea that transsexual men and women only target feminists shows your own prejudices all to clearly. We are engaged constantly with the press to help them avoid using pejorative language regarding trans men and women. If Ron Liddle had written about “yids” “ragheads” “niggers” he would have broken the law, As for using “bitch-fight” – this insults all women – it is sexist crap, but that too is legal.

      • SirMortimerPosh

        It is going to be an uphill task to avoid pejorative language being used about people who have altered their private parts in a quest to be of another gender than they actually are. If I claim to be an astronaut will I be one? Of course not. So it is with those who claim to be of a different gender. Did you really think the man or woman in the street would ever consider such a thing valid or appropriate? I do not object to the fact that people do this thing, in a free country you can pretty much do any crazy thing you like, and I don’t mind, but don’t ask me to take you seriously, or to use what you consider appropriate language to describe your bizarre choices, or to refrain from laughing. You should have had some better counselling before you did it – the sort where the person says, ‘Don’t be so bloody stupid’.

        • Nele Schindler


        • Zoe Ellen Brain

          A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

          == Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically
          male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity
          develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones -==

          Of course the man in the street doesn’t know this stuff. They don’t know about open heart surgery either.

          “Anatomically girl brain with anatomically boy body ” basically, the differences visible on MRI and PET scans.

          Or the reverse off course.

  • Aunt B

    Dear Ron Liddle, I think I am in love with your brain, wit, writing. Great read.

  • Lesley Stafford

    Utter rubbish. The dog has eaten too much, and barfed it all over the carpet. Bile, bile, bile.

  • Lesley Stafford

    The PCC Editor’s Code of Practice states that “The press must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an
    individual’s race, colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation or to
    any physical or mental illness or disability. Burchill broke this rule, Rod Liddle has broken this rule, their editors broke this rule.

    • FrankS

      My God! (or OMG, as the kid say), that’s just so totally, like, unacceptable. You mean two of the finest brains n the meeja have broken the Code? I think I’ll die of very shame.

      • Lesley Stafford

        I had never noticed (until today) how alike in behavior trolls and idiots are.

        • FrankS

          Self knowledge can be a painful thing when at last it arrives!

  • Sarah

    The backlash was pre-menstrual? I think you’ve kind of missed like the ENTIRE point of this particular debate between feminists and transsexuals, Rod. You have in fact encapsulated missing the entire point in those two words. Which shows more talent than usual, because it usually takes you an entire blog to miss the point on feminist debates. So well done you! Keep plugging away at it and you’ll soon be able to miss the point in less than one word, then it’s just a short step to silence.

  • retundario

    Didn’t Burchill suggest that women are “oppressed” because they get PMT?


  • FrankS

    There’s a guy works down the chip shop thinks he’s Elvis….

  • BorderlineFascist
  • BorderlineFascist
  • Chuck White

    This has put me in the mood for some Tranny porn.

  • BorderlineFascist

    blaa blaa blaa

  • BorderlineFascist

    I feel very bad about that Algerian thing- the government have been incompetent as usual. Stupid arseholes.

  • William Reid Boyd

    Velociraptors laid eggs. They didn’t have uteri and consequently didn’t menstruate and so could never have suffered pre-menstrual tension (much like transexuals persons as it happens, or at any rate the ones who have embraced the feminine gender).

    Rest of it was fine.

  • Zoe Ellen Brain

    A polite request – could you please get your stories straight?

    The Far Left Burchill in her article excoriates Trans people for being privileged Right-wingers, ” a few old Etonians” as she calls them. “Educated beyond all common sense and honesty”. “swinging their Phds (sic)”
    “We know that everything we have, we got for ourselves. We have no family
    money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused
    of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.”

    (Incontinence being a not uncommon side effect from genital surgery of any kind)

    Meanwhile the Far Right excoriates them for being whinging Left-Wingers, uneducated gutter-class prostitutes.

    Basically the same charges that have been laid at the feet of Jews – as simultaneously Commies bent on dragging society down, and Rich International Banking Plutocrats..

    I get the hatred.But could you PLEASE bloody well make up your minds as to the reasons?

    • mumble

      Oh, dear. Suzanne Moore has been accused of not thinking through a harmless throwaway comment while focused on writing a chapter on female anger for a book on, I’ve been told, menstruation.

      And, you know what? I’ll bet that incontinence being a not uncommon side effect from genital surgery of any kind never crossed her mind.

      Bad intersectionalist! Bad intersectionalkist!

  • undergroundman14

    “All of this is unrelievedly hilarious; the metro-left is filled with loathing — self-loathing and a loathing it disperses to anyone who might even mildly offend its sensibilities.”
    Of course the left are self-loathing. This is what it means, and has always meant to be a leftist. Self-hatred, especially on racial matters, (if the leftist is ethnically British) runs through the veins of leftwingers like Jew-hate at a meeting of Islamic extremists.

  • Sarah

    And another thing.

    What men (of the right) conveniently forget when berating women (of the left) about an unhealthy obsession with words, is that,

    A) men of the right no longer have to obsess over the power of words because they spent the first two thousand years of their literary history enforcing a lexicon that served their purposes. People were excommunicated, imprisoned and executed over a turn of phrase or a slightly different interpretation of scripture, or a disagreement on the order of bullet points in a manifesto. They can afford to chill out about it now, because it’s now the law and our moral framework. Women meanwhile are trying to achieve the corrective on this not via Star Chambers, but via social media. So all in all, a bit rich to make fun.
    B) Women are better at language and more interested in it. That’s why Women Studies courses tend to be in language departments of universities. We can’t help noticing when other people use it clumsily and dangerously.

    • Alexandrovich

      So, what you’re saying is that women spend more time on FaceBook?

    • Ridcully

      “Only women should be allowed to decide what language should and should not be allowed because you mere men are incapable of understanding it as we do.”

    • mumble

      Oh, dear me. Casual sexism. Twitterstorm, everybody!

  • Sarah

    Bitch fight?

    Is that because Moore, Featherstone and Burchill are all women? Is “bitch” a kind of shorthand?

    • Icebow

      I think it applies where they are fighting. Those offended by it may prefer ‘cat’, though I have always preferred ‘lady’. Unless they are wearing gloves and helmets and are all in either red or blue, in which case it is known as boxing.

    • mumble

      It is because they were all being bitchy. It’s not a code, you know.

  • Mr Alien

    When I lived in Asia, the in joke was that one paid extra for a tranny, or katoey as the ‘official’ Thai name goes. Further, the only way I could tell the difference, was that generally, the katoey were far sexier; figure, breasts, hair, makeup etc, than the natural born of the gender. So maybe a our locals Lady Boys should be happy with the comparison.

    As a last note, the last time I was there, hoardings and billboards were advertising a sex change for about £4,000. At that price, I figured, I could have had one and changed back again before my holiday was over. And the hospital was far nicer than the digs I was in.

    • Alexandrovich

      Mr. Allen – you’re not saying that Kate Hoey is a ‘tranny’, surely?

    • mumble

      Oh. my ears and whiskers!

      I hope that you are not doing anything remotely akin to suggesting that the ideal body shape is that of a Brazilian transsexual. You have no idea how much trouble that could land you in.

      Oh. Or perhaps you do.

  • Robyn Duckworth

    Nice to see all the casual abusive comments on here about people who are just different to you and want to live their lives in peace. Just hope most of you would be more supportive if your child came out – or would you just come out with a whole load of abuse?

    • Armand Laf

      I’d be supportive, of course. AND I would teach that child not to behave as a permanent victim, to be polite to ignorant people who, after all, are human beings too, and to take the inevitable jokes in his stride.

  • PokerKnave

    Twitter maybe a thing for twits but it is great for online spats.

  • Hugh_Oxford

    Where’s the outrage from the Brazilian community?

    • mumble

      My Sunday paper a while back advised that “studies have shown” that Brazilians are the most beautiful people in the world, so I sincerely hope they are distracted by orgiastic frenzy or at least having a life.

  • maurice12brady

    To listen to the Liberally Demented (Featherstone et al) everything is about ‘going forward’ — The new buzz phrase — From semi-lucid coppers to anxiety-laden headteachers,everything is about ‘going forward’! — Not this time I’m afraid.

  • Rapid Eddie

    Great japes, Rod, great japes. Unfortunately, what you’ve written bears little or no resemblance to the reality of what happened. Initially, a straight woman called ‘Jo’ politely picked Moore up on the use of ‘Brazilian transsexuals’ as a punchline, referencing the appalling wave of murders of transwomen in Brazil. Polite and reasonable.

    Moore didn’t even have to apologize or agree. It would have been easy to make the point that the meaning and construction placed upon it were not intended and therefore such criticism was invalid or unfair. Simple enough.

    Moore then went off on one. Groucho Club, I-think-madam-has-had-too-much-Stolly off on one. “Fúck off really” “Cut off their dicks” etc., etc. Until then, it had been a handful of posts, politely exchanged.

    From that moment on, people responded in kind. Note that all this could have ended in 5 minutes flat and been lost to history. About 2 people even noticed the line about Brazilian transsexuals and they were both engaging in civilized discussion. But I think Moore felt bothered by the little people. She tired of being questioned by people below her social status.

    Of course, she has an absolute right to be rude and offensive. But follow the logic through. Therefore the other Twitter posters have an absolute right to be rude and offensive in return. Freedom of speech and all that.

    Which is why the Burchill article – and the supplementary Moore article dealing with the affair – didn’t make any sense. If you’re claiming to be fearless bastions of free speech, then why write an article, as Burchill did, decrying people’s use of it? Either nut up or shut up.

    Or why make ludicrous claims that there is a vast powerful transcabal, as Julie Bindel did, trying to keep good womenz down? I mean, close your eyes and just list in your mind all those legions of transsexual men and women in government, editorships of newspapers, giants of business and industry. Ah screw it. Just name one transsexual person you know by name. Yes, the power of the transcabal is awesome and it is everywhere.

    So Liddle’s article, while great fun, is lazy and dishonest. But then where would a columnist be without the ability to iron out a story so if fits their own worldview.

    • mumble

      The “polite woman called Jo” kept goading until she had material for an intersectional offence-taking fest.

    • mumble

      Free-speech rights include the right to critique others’ use of their free-speech rights; Burchill has the same rights you are using to do exactly that.

      • Rapid Eddie

        I’m aware of that. My point is that the initial exchanges were on a substantive point (obviously Moore thought there was less substance to the points being made than her correspondents). Burchill was the first one to suggest that the freaks in frocks had no right to comment on Moore’s peerless writing; no place talking on women’s issues at all.

        To borrow a turn of phrase from Burchill herself, it takes a special kind of chutzpah to attempt to close down conversation and then for the person you’re defending to piggyback of it to write a follow-up article shouting “Free speech!”. Either a special kind of chutzpah or a special kind of stupid.

  • Icebow

    It is all rather a hoot. Pre-menstrual velociraptor, indeed! Paleobiology aside, I’m reminded of a spoof magazine cover in Viz some years ago, featuring a lady with a rolling pin and a certain stare. It was called ‘Blobstrop’.
    I understood the cosmically-daft ‘cissexism’ at once. I’m in touch with my feminine side (she’s a Goth), and once tried to get involved in feminism, but was told it was women’s work.

  • seebee

    Well it is just as I predicted: the salivating Right has filled up on pop corn and is thoroughly enjoying the show from the sidelines – because, let’s face it, you only need to cast a cursory glance at their online newspapers to where the virtual bear baiting and cock fighting usually take place. Unfortunately, as a late arrival to the punch n judy show, I have missed out and can therefore only conclude that this boils down to a rant, of the I-am-considerably-poorer/worse off/more -of-a-victim than-yaw variety; or the politics of reverse envy. But what I find more interesting than the article itself is this: the back slapping; the cosying up between renegade left and true blue. It gives me a creepy sense of deja vu to see Left and the Right meet when they come full circle.

  • FedroCas Tovar

    I read Julie Burchill’s article. What puzzled me, is how such a distinguished journalist who has for thirty years epitomised the integrity and erudition of the British Press, and who has worked for almost every national paper, should have confused the terms ‘transexual’ and ‘transvestite’. One being the term for gentlemen who wish they were ladies and adjust their appearance accordingly – and the other being the term for those upon whom nature played a cruel joke, and who are physically not quite either.

    Silly old bag is past it.

  • welshdai

    As a long time fan of Julie i love and i bet she does the shit being thrown at her by the labour and lib dem luvvies who have probably been down their local mosques telling the evil dogs that they welcome their diversity and female genital mutilation etc?I

  • Noa
    • mumble

      “centering” is also bad. But maybe “centering people” is okay? Can’t. Keep. Up.

    • mumble

      Somebody gets to say that “transsexual” is pejorative but “cis” is not. Can’t Obama get the CIA to identify this person and put them in control of the gun-safety campaign?

  • mumble

    The Women’s Room ‏@TheWomensRoomUK

    @helenlewis we’re starting a campaign called #silentnomore to fight back against silencing online abuse; cld you help us spread the word? 🙂

  • sweetsadness

    Nicely done.

  • Lesley Stafford

    “bourgeois bien-pensant left” Yawn.

  • JJH2

    Vile speech from a vile writer. I have no politics – at least none of any bearing on this matter – Burchill’s words were simply eye popping hate speech, as thousands agreed – directed at a group of people of whose real lives Rod Liddle knows nothing. Wants to know nothing. Cares nothing. Just enjoys insulting too. Plus ca change. There’s nothing so reassuring to one’s own world view as a mind that is padlocked shut.

    Empty words, empty thinking. A waste of the electricity I used powering my laptop to read it really.

  • malkovichmalkovich

    Its funny that Rod Liddle and his cult think that individualism is a decent enough excuse for being bigoted sociopathic cry-baby boomers with paunches. The 20th century has been and gone, change the record or we’ll stop mushing up your food.

  • The_greyhound

    I am trying to inculcate a sense of open-minded inclusivity, while preserving its vibrant diversity, in my own vomit.

    Then I deposit the unbigoted lot on a copy of the Guardian, the only discernible use to which this least-read “national” newspaper can be put.