High life

Taki: High life

20 July 2013

9:00 AM

20 July 2013

9:00 AM

I am about to leave for karate camp in Thun, Switzerland, four days of double sessions lasting one hour and 45 minutes each, with 300 black belts from all over Europe and North America attending. I’ll give you all the details next week once I’m safely back home and on my way to the Greek islands. I know, I know, it’s a tough life but I deserve it. After all, given that I’m a self-made man it is right and proper for me to enjoy my golden years in comfort. (And if you believe that, you probably deem rap an art.)

Unlike the British foreign minister, I am not about to apologise for calling some Greek woman writing out of London for the world’s most boring newspaper stupid — mind you, it’s a bit unfair, the International Herald Tribune is a better read than Double Glazing News, but life is, after all, unfair — but please, oh Lord, protect me from female Greek lefties seething with revolutionary fervour and banging on about inequities in the home of feta cheese and olive oil. The stupid one raged against the closing of the state broadcaster ERT, as leftie as the BBC but ten times as bloated and patronage-ridden.

ERT embodied where Greece went wrong. Lifetime jobs for people who hadn’t bothered to show up for years, pensions ditto, and other such outrages handed out by successive governments in return for votes. The two parties now in power were the ones that nurtured the rotten system, but Greeks forget easily and then tend to go to the beach. When I speak with my countrymen and women, they all complain about the EU’s harsh terms for bailing out the country. But when I tell them Greece should never have got into the macabre business in the first place, and should have left the euro the moment the gun was pointed at our temple, they say no, we belong in Europe and the euro is our only hope. It is a typical Greek reaction. We want both our cake and so on.

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Well, I haven’t lived in Greece in some 70-odd years except for long visits, so I tend to see things differently. What Greece needed back in the Forties was less communism and more electrolysis. What she needs now is less EU and more private enterprise. The public sector is what sank the Greek economy. That and corruption by the two main parties, the very same two parties now putting the squeeze on poor people in order to satisfy the EU crooks. But the voices one hears whining about the loss of jobs are the voices of those who played a big part in sinking the country, those of civil servants crying over the loss of their sinecures. (Like that stupid woman writing in the IHT and warning against a fascist takeover of Greece; no such luck, I’m afraid.)

If I hear one more warning against the impending takeover by Golden Dawn I will go up to the Acropolis and do a Morosini, the Venetian general who fired a canon into the Turkish ammunition dump and blew up the world’s greatest temple. (Leave it to the Turks to turn the Parthenon into an ammo dump.) Golden Dawn came into being because of PC, poor Greeks at times getting fewer benefits than African illegal immigrants. Then GD became very popular with certain poor Greeks while it defended them from being mugged by Albanian criminals and drug dealers, and for safeguarding older folk after bank withdrawals. No, Golden Dawn is not house-trained, and many of its members tend to use rough language and get physical. None of them went to Eton, and none of their parents was my playmate when I was a child. But if they were lefties and railed against capitalism they would be treated like heroes, the way Bono, Bianca Jagger and other such untalented rappers and phonies are. Golden Dawn members might need some lessons in social etiquette, but what the bien pensant need much more is to get off the pot and their double standards. Golden Dawn members are mostly labourers, martial artists, cops, security personnel and good old-fashioned patriotic Greeks.

About four or five years ago I was cheered at a meeting when I walked in accompanied by two young women, and I thought it was because of something I had written. Not at all, as it turned out. They cheered because I’m old and the two companions were young. Very politically incorrect, but very Greek, I’m afraid. Polly Toynbee, Maureen Dowd and other old hags would have been appalled. Too bad, young women enjoy older men with boats, especially during the hot summer months. And I did mange to see some of my old karate students at the convention. They are all still in security, but very, very poor. So the next time you read some leftie old hag banging on about the fascist evils ready to take over in Greece, use their newspaper writings in the smallest room in your house. You know what I mean. If only my buddy Jeremy Clarke had had some of those columns with him while suffering from dysentery in the Serengeti, they would have finally been of some use.

But to more serious matters. Until the shutdown of ERT, not a single government employee had been fired by the present government: 128,000 had been retired, with their benefits intact, which is not the same thing. The government lies, the austerity terms get harsher, and the loans have failed to turn the economy around. See you on Paxos.


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Show comments
  • A.C. Helios

    This has got to be the most offensive, poorly written opinion I’ve had the misfortune to spot. Highlighting stereotypes in a pejorative fashion and name-calling for self-amusement is both condescending and cruel. Worst of all, the reader gains no real insight into the condition of Greece, only the author’s egomaniacal self-portrayal and mocking of others he must paint as goof-offs to appear superior.

    And only one actively seeking negative attention, much like an adolescent who is antisocial or suffers a conduct disorder, would toss a flippant title off that includes the name of a fascist group. That isn’t clever, nor is it sardonic wit; it’s merely mean-spirited. So much for framing an argument and addressing it soberly and responsibly. This reads like a snotty letter home from someone on holiday.

    • Thor fenris

      You haven’t been a Speccy reader for long have you? Laughing at Tak’is absurdly self referential pontifications is one of the few joys we have left.

  • Guest

    Why did I read this?!? I am too depressed now to comment. I wonder how much he is paid to write this garbage. Then he complains about others not deserving their salaries.

    • Guest

      Spot-on. It is dangerous and offensive garbage from an incompetent journalist who should be unemployed, if there were any sort of meritocracy in the profession.

  • Shakesphear

    Refreshing article that represents a more balanced reality of what’s going on in Greece (although beware, its likely to draw out far leftist trolls that will attempt to tar you as “fascist”).

    The reality is GD are extreme but this does not give some sort of get-out-jail pass to far leftist extremists also flourishing in Greece – mainly in the form of communist Syriza (run by Tripiras whose a live long self-communist and whose core party members literally admire mass murderers like Stalin and Mao and want Euro-communism)

    What’s truly disturbing is some of the alleged moderate left leaning media that (rightfully) complain about Golden Dawn, then go on to treat Greek communists as “human rights” and “democracy” advocates. The NY York Times recently even had a bizarre article claiming *ONLY* Syriza could save Greece.

    *Only* communists can save a country? Really?

    Used to think the Tea Partiers were completely daft warning about creeping far left extremism but when communists are being lauded by the Guardian, NY Times, and even some alleged human rights NGOs it makes you wonder if they had a point.

    • maxime1793

      But your bankrupt answer is support the treasonous Memorandum-government of ND and PASOK, the same parties which ruined the country.

    • Junis

      You’re an apologist for race-based, lopsided wealth inequality. I myself am a left-wing conspiracy theorist who believes that both communists and pro-white fascists are the bad guys. If anything, you cannot deny that most wars and terrorism are started by right-wingers of European descent.

      • Drakken

        So your a communist and a self loathing, self hating, lefty European who hates his own. Priceless!

  • IvanTudorWho

    Don’t worry about the [blackshirts/Islamists/communists], says the [Spectator/ Guardian/Independent], they may look a little rough around the edges, but they’re like puppies really, and they’re only a reaction to the nasty [immigrants/imperialists/Jews]. We hear far too much about LibLabCon, so how’s about RacistIslamistSocialist? From recent evidence from here and the Grauniad, there’s not a great deal between you. And given that the RacistIslamistSocialists have about 90% of the vote in Greece, my considered opinion is that the place is f****d. Italy too.

    • maxime1793

      You think KKE-SYRIZA-DIMAR-PASOK-ND-ANEL can collectively be referred to as “RacistIslamistSocialists”?????????????

      • IvanTudorWho

        It’s called exaggeration. My point stands, which is that I’m fed up to the teeth of groups that manufacture grievances against the wrong targets, are quite prepared to use violence to back up their views and then accuse the political establishment of not telling the truth. I would rather be a LibLabCon than someone who blames outsiders – some outsiders, any outsiders – for problems that I am myself responsible for as a UK citizen. It doesn’t help, of course, when the political establishment really doesn’t tell the truth, which is where PASOK and ND come in, but that still doesn’t back up the claims of insurgents.

        • maxime1793

          It was not clear that was your point, even after rereading the first post. But I can’t agree with the point anyway.

          Blaming outsiders as scapegoats is one thing, but it is not necessary to blame yourself. You as a UK citizen are not responsible for what goes on, for example, in the City of London just because you vote. There is a lot of information to which you are not easily privy and the deck is stacked against non-LibLabCon candidates.

          Obviously, LibLabCon and PASOK-ND are wrong and nobody should vote for them. In any case, those are quite interior targets.

          • IvanTudorWho

            Then perhaps we disagree. Running a country is hard, and even if the main parties do it badly, roughing up Muslims isn’t the right response. And for another example of RacistIslamistSocialism, there is always Seumas Milne in today’s Guardian (ever a reliable source). Everything would be OK except for those evil Royals. Again, all the ills of the world are someone else’s fault. I realise that he’s only internet trolling, but still, WTF?

          • maxime1793

            The point is though that the voters don’t run the country. Attacking, say, finance capital, military lobbyists, Eurocrats, or policies like privatisation or high immigration are not scapegoating, those are actually internal targets. That kind of scapegoating would be like the US blaming its economic problems on China, which some people try to do. Ironically it is almost always people who supported free trade with China facilitating whatever problem they see….or perhaps it is not ironic, as they are deflecting criticism from themselves.

            In any case, the people is not to be blamed (chiefly).

          • IvanTudorWho

            If you are right, surely that’s a bit of a pity? If we all took more interest in the running of the country, then maybe the idiot:power ratio would come down? But perhaps that’s just Athenian idealism on my part …

  • tomthumb015

    Refreshing insight into the murky pool of Greek politics. Humorous, but in fact largely true, Greece did, and still as a corrupt political system, basically vote for me and get a job for life in the public sector? Now the Greeks complain when the troika says clean up your own mess?

    • First as tragedy, then as farc

      Refreshing insight? An article promoting a violent nazi group whose leader has also been writing hymns to… Satan (WTF)?

  • greekygeek

    Taki is not self made. His father was a shipowner who was extremely close to the junta who went on to provide material support to greek far right organisations well inyo the 80s. Perhaps he might like to tell us whether he knows who the rumoured shipowners who bankroll GD today are…

    • David Hughes

      Not defending him, but surely that’s what he was alluding to when he followed that sentence with “and if you believe that…”.

      • greekygeek

        Semantic point taken…

    • maxime1793

      Taki is kind of annoying sometimes but he is right about XA people actually defending Greeks in rough neighbourhoods. That should be acknowledged, not condemned.

      • greekygeek

        Populist stunts and scapegoating immigrants is the modus operandi of GD who are essentially bully boys of the Establishment. Once again we invite Taki to tell us in his next column whether he knows who is bankrolling GD.

        • maxime1793

          But what do you do when the CORRUPT political system has the police stand down? You are going to tell me it is normal to have 2 million illegal immigrants hanging out in a country of 11 million citizens? Who protects the people then? Really, offer a serious solution.

          • Guest

            lol! 2 million illegal immigrants! Want to know something about immigration in Greece apart from actually living here and living in the “no go” areas they rant about ? http://thisisnotmycountry.com/2013/06/12/mostly-legal-immigration/

          • maxime1793

            I spend a lot of time in Greece, yes, the number of illegal immigrants is huge. Perhaps *you* only consider them illegal if they never file for asylum. The corrupt ND-PASOK oligarchy signed Greece up for the treasonous Dublin II treaty so North European countries trap all asylum seekers who come in through Europe’s Southeast in Greece. They then yell you are racist for not giving them the facilities afforded in North Europe even while imposing genocidal austerity on you! The Left’s idiot plan to deal with this is to legalise the illegals and give them travel documents so they can leave. Of course, this is like trying to tell the Troika you want to be in the euro and not do what they say. They’ll return all the immigrants and/or seal the border with Greece. The Greeks will be stuck with a huge population increase, WHILE having 30% unemployment.

            How idiotic! How can you defend this?

          • KostasT

            I live here. That’s why I responded to you. There are not 2 million immigrants here. Sorry to ruin your day!

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Your numbers are pulled right out of your ass? are they?

        • maxime1793

          And by “bully boys of the Establishment”, what do you mean? It would appear to me to imply the old Marxist view of fascist groups as being tools of grand capital. When this is applied to nascent groups like the BNP with a working class base and demonised by the whole Establishment, it is seems conspiratorial. Are you implying XA are footsoldiers meant to “smash the Left”?

          • greekygeek

            The fact that GD is being defended within the pages of a journal that speaks for a section of the British elite indicates that fascism is seen as potentially a useful prop against the militancy of the working class, which will inevitably also arise in the UK. As for the illegal immigrants in Greece they are the natural allies of the Greek working class and not reactionary figures like Taki or parties like Golden Dawn, which incidentally advocates tax concessions for shipowners. Perhaps Taki may also like to elaborate on this last point and tell us who is pulling the plebeian strings of the GD puppets? I note that in 1967 shipowners (Taki’s father included no doubt) were invited by Colonel Papadopoulos (PM under the junta) to draft what became the most generous shipping legal framework in the history of the world. No doubt many are salivating at the prospect of paying 0% tax in Peireaus once again…

          • maxime1793

            “fascism is seen as potentially a useful prop against the increasing militancy of the working class globally”
            —The NSDAP was co-opted by the German ruling class in the early 1930s……but that does not mean that it was always a creation of the ruling class! As big money and favourable media coverage were being offered to Hitler, the socialist elements of his platform disappeared and the Strassers were marginalised. So fascism in power is usually the co-opting of a nationalist force by the formerly liberal bourgeoisie…but the standard left-wing reaction then that all fascists are tools of the ruling class to the point that you would prefer street battles with the former and legal bans while seeking to engage liberals in free debate is counter-productive.

            XA voters and supporters are largely working class and anti-Memorandum (SYRIZA’s supporters are concentrated in underpaid but socially-middle class youth). Maybe you should try not to alienate them.

            “As for the illegal immigrants in Greece they are the natural allies of
            the Greek working class and not reactionary figures like Taki or Golden
            Dawn”
            —No, illegal immigrants are primarily a BATTERING RAM of capitalists, corrupt politicians, and mafia. They undermine all progressive labour legislation and drive down wages. People are driven to XA by destitution and insecurity, and even if some Greek Leftists address the former they avoid issues of security like the plague. SYRIZA’s ridiculous immigration policy possibly lost them the last election.

            This is why I fear for Greece. Since the Left is not doing its job and since there is not a strong patriotic anti-Memorandum force on the Right (I can hardly find any stories about Kammenos anymore), there is a void filled by XA. Now, even though the KKE-Syriza voters and XA voters are all anti-Memorandum and anti-government, they are rhetorically more concerned with each other! If you think XA is manipulated by big money like Taki’s family, what about all the Leftists and anarchists who waste their time attacking first, second, and last?

            The whole lot of you – even if you overthrew the government, it seems you’d just have civil war. For the love of God, how about patriots of all stripes cooperate for the sovereignty and redevelopment of the country and leave the Trots and anarchists as well as the Hitlerian neopagan freaks on the sidelines!

          • greekygeek

            FASCISM — WHAT IS IT?

            Extracts from a letter to an English comrade, November 15 1931;

            printed in The Militant, January 16, 1932

            * * *

            What is fascism? The name originated in Italy. Were all the forms of counter-revolutionary dictatorship fascist or not (That is to say, prior to the advent of fascism in Italy)?The former dictatorship in Spain of Primo de Rivera, 1923-30, is called a fascist dictatorship by the Comintern. Is this correct or not? We believe that it is incorrect.The fascist movement in Italy was a spontaneous movement of large masses, with new leaders from the rank and file. It is a plebian movement in origin, directed and financed by big capitalist powers. It issued forth from the petty bourgeoisie, the slum proletariat, and even to a certain extent from the proletarian masses; Mussolini, a former socialist, is a “self-made” man arising from this movement.Primo de Rivera was an aristocrat. He occupied a high military and bureaucratic post and was chief governor of Catalonia. he accomplished his overthrow with the aid of state and military forces. The dictatorships of Spain and Italy are two totally different forms of dictatorship. It is necessary to distinguish between them. Mussolini had difficulty in reconciling many old military institutions with the fascist militia. This problem did not exist for Primo de Rivera.The movement in Germany is analogous mostly to the Italian. It is a mass movement, with its leaders employing a great deal of socialist demagogy. This is necessary for the creation of the mass movement.The genuine basis (for fascism) is the petty bourgeoisie. In italy, it has a very large base — the petty bourgeoisie of the towns and cities, and the peasantry. In Germany, likewise, there is a large base for fascism….It may be said, and this is true to a certain extent, that the new middle class, the functionaries of the state, the private administrators, etc., can constitute such a base. But this is a new question that must be analyzed….In order to be capable of foreseeing anything with regard to fascism, it is necessary to have a definition of that idea. What is fascism? What are its base, its form, and its characteristics? How will its development take place? It is necessary to proceed in a scientific and Marxian manner.

            HOW MUSSOLINI TRIUMPHED

            From What Next? Vital Question for the German Proletariat, 1932

            * * *

            At the moment that the “normal” police and military resources of the bourgeois dictatorship, together with their parliamentary screens, no longer suffice to hold society in a state of equilibrium — the turn of the fascist regime arrives. Through the fascist agency, capitalism sets in motion the masses of the crazed petty bourgeoisie and the bands of declassed and demoralized lumpenproletariat — all the countless human beings whom finance capital itself has brought to desperation and frenzy.From fascism the bourgeoisie demands a thorough job; once it has resorted to methods of civil war, it insists on having peace for a period of years. And the fascist agency, by utilizing the petty bourgeoisie as a battering ram, by overwhelming all obstacles in its path, does a thorough job. After fascism is victorious, finance capital directly and immediately gathers into its hands, as in a vise of steel, all the organs and institutions of sovereignty, the executive administrative, and educational powers of the state: the entire state apparatus together with the army, the municipalities, the universities, the schools, the press, the trade unions, and the co-operatives. When a state turns fascist, it does not mean only that the forms and methods of government are changed in accordance the patterns set by Mussolini — the changes in this sphere ultimately play a minor role — but it means first of all for the most part that the workers’ organizations are annihilated; that the proletariat is reduced to an amorphous state; and that a system of administration is created which penetrates deeply into the masses and which serves to frustrate the independent crystallization of the proletariat. Therein precisely is the gist of fascism….rotskyism will not be on the sidelines in the coming revolutionary period. If anyone understood fascism it was Leon Trotsky. His writings on the rise of fascism still stand the test of time. Here is an extract:

          • maxime1793

            Trotskyist literature from the early 1930s does not tell you exactly what is going on in Greece or really anywhere (I thought Marxists were not supposed to believe in prophets or a Book of Revelations). As I’ve said, when fascism has actually come into power, it has been via an alliance with grand capital, and, where necessary, with the aristocracy and court. However, this does not mean all “fascist” movements are the creation of grand capital and “directed by” it as your first source claims. How bizarre such a claim would be when you look at e.g., the UK, where the entire Establishment shuts out the BNP, allows anarchists to attack it often on the street, and even publishes the names and addresses of all members (obviously an INTELLIGENCE operation) and allows people to be fired for membership in a party.

            It is also untrue that fascist parties are a priori based in the petty bourgeoisie, just because this is a Marxist claim about the NSDAP and Italian Fascists. Look at the Front National, it is overwhelmingly working class in its electorate at least, the number one party of the WC! In the 1980s, this was different, then it was petty bourgeois, but there is a difference, it mutated with circumstance. When the Cold War ended, it went to an anti-NATO, anti-globalisation, anti-finance capital position, while the “Marxist” parties mutated to pro-war and accomodationist positions. Still, the “let’s attack Syria for democracy” idiots of the French far-left (PNA, LO, the PG with its Free-Masonic leader, and, apparently, the ‘mutated’ PCF) will say the FN is classically fascist and the number one enemy of the working class!

            This is really, really stupid. If your first priority is world revolution and not accepting anything short of the working class rising up across all borders simultaneously, then you’re a hopeless case, an obscurantist. If your first priority is the destruction of all vestiges of the Right (traditions, religion, national and local cultures, family structure) then you’ll be a lapdog of neoliberalism, as I fear Trotskyism practically is today. But if you actually care about saving the Greek people from the Memorandum, then you have to see neoliberalism as your first enemy, your primary target.

            And why shouldn’t your primary target be the powerful?

          • greekygeek

            If you think Trotsky’s writings are anachnonistic then that is your prerogative. Many others especially among the young will come to a different conclusion. Internationalism does not equal neo-liberalism as you seem to claim. If anything it is your defence of the fatherland position which ultimately props up the powerful. If Greece was to leave the Memorandum would that solve the exploitation of the Greek working class if it was not accompanied by a revolutionary and internationalist perspective in alliance with the working class in other countries? The same elites would be in power using different tools to maintain their right to exploit. Today it is the Memorandum tomorrow it may be a return to the drachma followed by devaluation in the name of competitiveness.

          • Homer

            That fact that you admire and quote Trotsky…one of histories biggest mass murderers is enough to discredit anything you have to say…

          • Rizospastis

            How? That is the most ridiculous claim I’ve ever heard. But what can one expect from a weak liberal.

          • maxime1793

            He’s right, and hardly a liberal.

          • Homer

            And what exactly did PASOK and ND do to reign in the shipowners all these years???

          • greekygeek

            Nothing of course. What’s your point?

          • Homer

            My point is that you seem to imply GD is a tool of the elites and my point is that PASOK and ND are presently tools of the elites…not to mention SYRIZA the radical commies who drive around in limos promoting gay sex and pot festivals.
            They are all back by big money.

          • greekygeek

            Yes they are. But GD is not anti establishment. They are being lauded in the pages of the Spetator and they back tax concesions for shipowners. How much more proof do you need?

          • Homer

            Unfortunately the economic power of the shipowners in Greece is strong to the point that any political movement that wants power in Greece must appease them…right or left. I wish it were not so but that is the current reality.
            As for the establishment…it will always be there and they will support whoever does their bidding.
            You think the likes of SYRIZA or KKE are going to help anyone but themselves? At least GD is promoting looking after their own which is what i believe…whether they do or not once in power remains to be seen.

          • greekygeek

            I love the way you prostrate before the shipowner elite. As for “their own” the Greek worker has more in common with an African migrant than with Taki, Niarchos, Vardinoyiannis etc etc

          • Homer

            You call it prostration I call it seeing reality. You honestly think the workers around the world will unite to overthrow the establishment??? Let’s say you are right, who then operates the infrastructure that the elites now control? And wouldnt these new operators then become the elites? Seems to me the commie party leadership in the ex soviet countries all had special perks for themselves while the worker had to line up for toilet paper.
            I’m a worker and I do not have a thing in common with an african…you sound like your just spouting off passages from the lefty manifestos you read.
            Do you work? Do you own property? If you do then you don’t want the government taking it away from you to give to someone else deemed more worthy or needy or whatever.
            The commies learned the hard way that most workers are loyal to their god and country hence why their world revolution failed. The left has decided a long time ago to abandon the worker and to embrace fringe groups in society that have a chip on their shoulder, gays, visible minorities, feminazis etc. etc. etc. Anyone they can use to destabalise society by destroying god and country which is what stands in the way of their world utopia.
            And what are the commies desired ends? Power plain and simple…even Lenin (whom I’m sure you admire) labelled most supporters useful idiots…what do you think he meant by that?

          • Rizospastis

            You have a terrible understanding of everything. The “infastructure that the elites now control” is a class dictatorship by the bourgeoisie. What we want is a proletarian dictatorship, until the bourgeoisie is expropriated, after which AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE THERE ARE NO LONGER ANY CLASSES, the state will cease to exist. I.e. lose its political function.

            You have a LOT more common with an African than you do with the capitalist. And the only way you are going to get rid of him fucking you in the ass, is by uniting with him.

            I work, I don’t own “property”. If you’re supposedly a worker, then neither do you. But you’ve proven yourself to not known your head from your ass, so perhaps (likely) you have a shit understanding of what communists mean when they say “property”. If I DID own property however, OF COURSE I wouldn’t want the government to take it away from me. Why would I? It wouldn’t be in my class interest, would it? We are not communists because of moral reasons idiot (desipte what the petty-bourgeois red wine drinking socialists of SYRIZA would have you believe), we are communists because it lies in our CLASS INTEREST.

            The world revolution didn’t fail because “most workers are loyal to god and country”. Reductionist, abstract bullshit by someone who is incapable of forming a more coherent analysis than that which a 10 year old can.

            Feminism is inherent to communism, so are gay rights. But here we go again the Great and Glorious Homer (Simpson you should be called) delivers us a earthshattering analysis. We want to destabilize society by destroying god and country by supporting gays and feminists.

            Fear us, Homer Simpson, for we seek the enslavement of the White Race by a reptilian semetic elite! Homosexuality shall be taught in schools, mad blunts will be smoked and blacks will own white slaves! Boo!

            I do not particularly admire Lenin seeing as I am not a Leninist, but Lenin has never uttered the words “useful idiots”. But I suppose one can’t expect “source evaluation” from a pathetic, weak little bourgeois-liberal like you.

          • maxime1793

            “You have a LOT more common with an African than you do with the capitalist.”

            —Great, then how about we take over our countries and let the African working class take over theirs. We can help each other develop and then, through some time, as our economic circumstances converge more, we can unite?!?!

            But you ain’t going to get anywhere advocating the end of all borders tomorrow, and all that does is support LIBERAL GLOBALISATION, the domination of the world by international banks under the guise of ‘internationalism’, which exploits everyone.

          • Guest

            Are you just geekygreek under another name? You both sound like a broken record. The grestest hits of Lenin 2 disk set!
            And why do you resort to name calling, did anyone insult you?

          • Drakken

            Keep trying to push that commi garbage and your going to find out real quick that your going to get a very violent reaction.

          • Homer

            You sound like your a uni student living off daddy’s money. Your words betray you as a neophyte psycophant who parrots the textbooks he’s assigned to read! Cause if you had to earn your money you wouldnt be spouting off communist fallacies and hypocracies they way you do.
            You are daft enough to believe that 7 billion people in the world can live without a structured government. Or that your commie heros will abandon power willingly once achieved…hahahahahaha…can’t stop laughing at how utterly simple you are! Your ranting is full of contradictions but your pea brain will never see it!
            You also have an odd notion of what a worker is…I can’t own property if I’m a worker??? Really??? So unless I wish to remain an unsuccessful loser I can’t be a worker???
            You are a simpleton my friend and if you are an example of lefty supporters then I doubt the rest of us have much to worry about. Now go off an write a love letter to Papariga and leave the debate to adults.

          • Drakken

            You communists really are in for a very rude awaking. Every time you commi bastards try communism, it always ends up with a stack of dead bodies.

          • Drakken

            Those ship owners you demonize are the ones providing jobs, you communists want to make everyone miserable, thanks but no thanks, I’ll take capitalism over you communists any day.

          • Rizospastis

            Because GD, BNP, EDL et al. are all, much like “regular” bourgeois-liberal parties, inavertedly defending the bourgeois status quo by splitting the proletariat into various ideological camps, causing them to bicker among themselves, instead of focusing on crushing our real enemy.

            These great ideological camps cause false conciousness, and surpress class conciousness greatly, utterly pacifying the militancy of our class, and thus by extension allowing for an even greater ass fucking.

            You mentioned earlier that the capitalist laughs at us, yes indeed. Not because you get called a racist for being racist, but rather because you’re racist and you bicker and moan at your fellow proletarians rather than him. It is quite sad really, we’re getting fucked in the ass so very hard, and yet, reactionaries such as you are still focusing on unimportant things, things that divide us. Things that, not to mention, are ultimately expressions and results of capitalist social, productive and material relations.

            Perhaps you should consider that it is actively in the interests of the bourgeoisie, “the elite”, the capitalist, that we bicker amongst ourselves over trivial issues such as nationality, religion, etc. so that we won’t notice how hard we’re being fucked over.

          • maxime1793

            “splitting the proletariat into various ideological camps”

            No, you do that by putting illegal immigrants on a pedestal above the interests of local proletarians. That pushes the latter into XA, BNP, FN, etc. I’ve seen it over and over again in America – the implication is that the local working class is “privileged” and does not deserve anything. Maybe you are just exasperated they are not revolutionary enough for you? I don’t know, but it is YOUR LOT making an issue. If you were doing things right, there would not be huge nationalist parties.

          • Drakken

            Your living proof that you just can’t fix stupid, you gotta beat it out of them.

        • Homer

          These people are not immigrants, they are “illegal invaders” both unwanted and unwelcome by the majority of Greeks…yes even the ones that vote PASOK and SYRIZA!
          Wonder if you have as much concern for your fellow Greeks who are suffering as you do for these illegals?

          • maxime1793

            Yes, even SYRIZA voters I know warn me about illegal immigrant crime when I am visiting Greece. I wonder if they are “racists” in the eyes of far leftists like Greekygeek?

          • KostasT

            Whoever is “warning” you is lying. Syriza or Golden Dawn, I don’t care, you have nothing to worry about in Greece. Having said that, you seem to be very gullible and susceptible to paranoia so there’s not much point replying to you. You’ll believe what you want in the end with not much thought.

          • maxime1793

            I spent 2 months last summer in Thessaloniki and a month this year already in Athens. I have spent time in Greece (Greek cities) every year for 4 years now. There are huge numbers of illegal immigrants sitting on the street either selling black market goods (because they work for the mafia), pushing shopping carts with scrap, begging, or doing nothing at all. Take a cab through Exarchia at night, why don’t you? If you see no problem at all, you must not be in a city.

            I know most illegal immigrants aren’t going to hurt me. I actually feel bad for some of them (not all of them, since many admit their lives back home were better). But that does not mean there is not a huge problem and Greeks I know have been ‘lying’ to me.

            OPEN YOUR EYES

          • Guest

            I have lived in Exarcheia for 11 years and there are no problems at all — day or night — concerning immigrants. You are just lying.

            The fact is that most of them are without work and many are hungry. The same, but less so, for many Greeks. What is your point here?

          • maxime1793

            “I have lived in Exarcheia for 11 years and there are no problems at all
            — day or night — concerning immigrants. You are just lying.”

            —Full of shit. There will never be a problem if you close your eyes and ears. People get mugged in Exarcheia regularly. I’ve been down Patission at night and it is nothing to be proud of. The neighbourhood is a dump, destroyed by (home-grown Greek) anarchists, chiefly. And no, I don’t live in Kolonaki. Not being an anarchist or some hipster-fag who finds random, illegible graffiti to be artistic does not make someone either a member of the grande bourgeoisie or a Chrysi Avgi thug. Okay?

            “The fact is that most of them are without work and many are hungry. The
            same, but less so, for many Greeks. What is your point here?”

            —It further destroys the real, legal economy to have people illegally working or trading in markets without permits, etc.

            ISN’T THAT CLEAR?!?! Shouldn’t that dovetail just fine with your constant point that the government brought these people over?

          • Guest

            You’re the one full of shit. People get mugged in NY and London much more frequently (as a percentage of population) than in Athens. Personally, I know nobody who has been mugged or who had a friend or relative who was mugged in Exarcheia. Nor has this anything to do with immigration, even if there is some sort of growing problem. The fundamental problems of Greece are the destroyed economy, caused primarily by incompetent and corrupt Greek politicians and incompetent and devious northern European policitians, espeically in Germany.

            As far as your last point is concerned, you misrepresent the accurate and unknown information that I provided elsewhere. That is, in the past Greek politicians encouraged or enabled illegal immigration for cheap and rightless workers. Now, since there is no need for such workers (having destroyed the economy) individual actors within the Greek state system are central in the trafficking and smuggling of illegal immigrants. Try to learn the difference between government and state structures, particularly when it is individuals within the state structures who are fucking everything up through corruption and criminality,

            None of this supports your anti-immigration obsession. You would be better off focusing on corruption of rich and powerful Greeks if you actually care about what is happening.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            True that BROTHER

          • maxime1793

            Without a doubt your main problem is your destroyed economy. The problems around Onomia and to its north were present long before the ECB, IMF, and Germany started foreclosing on you.

            I am all for putting immigration problems in perspective. They are not the chief problem; they are a mere portion of a package. Unfortunately, so many Leftists have adopted an irrational policy on immigration, whereby you take the mistakes of the capitalists and compound them rather than reverse them.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Maxime1793, if you are so scared of Greece, please, do us a favor and just fucking stay home, or go to a safe place, like Chicago, or Detroit, or El Paso, or a movie theater in Colorado. It is always HILARIOUS, when Americans opine about the crime rate in Athens. Statistically you are safer in the most dangerous parts of any city in Greece, than you are on your couch in Miami. So just STFU

          • maxime1793

            Grow up. I don’t need to hang out places where EVERYONE KNOWS IT IS NOT SAFE like downtown Detroit, southside Chicago, Compton-CA, Seine St-Dénis, Onomia after dark, or the Polytechnical U. in Athens.

            GROW UP AND IMPROVE YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Omonia after dark is safer than the nicest part of Oakland in the day time
            “grow up” …haha…do you think your e talking to a child? I am not saying that Greece does not have big problems. of course they do. The biggest one of all is government corruption, and a close second is the looting of the Bankers, Goldman Sachs, and the “investor class”, who are financially raping the Greek people. As far as immigration is concerned, the problem stems from the fact that Greece has no soverency now, and can’t do anything about it, as long as the EU uses Greece as a giagantic refugee camp.
            But to Advertise and promote that somehow it’s unsafe to travel to Greece, is a complete distortion of the truth, and its accomplishing exactly the opposite of what Greece needs. It discourages people from travelling there and spending their tourist dollars. If you have a problem with immigrants, then don’t leave your home town. Then you can just experience the same white people you hang out with in your “safe” neighborhood in America. IT IS TOTALLY SAFE TO TRAVEL TO GREECE. THE CRIME RATE IS VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY LOW, EVEN IN OMONIA, EXARCHIA, EVERYWHERE..So I don’t give a shit what you vote for, or, what your ideology is. Spreading lies and mistruths, and playing with the facts, just to prove that immigration is THE problem facing Greece, is WRONG. Make your point, without lies. And how exactly would you suggest that I, PERSONALLY can “improve my country?” Fuck off you elitist lying snob.

          • maxime1793

            “Omonia after dark is safer than the nicest part of Oakland in the day time”

            —-Yeah, if you are just afraid of Black people. Probably, you are, just like my other European friends. I took a German guy to an Ethiopian restaurant once and he thought he was going to get mugged.

            But don’t you get the point – people don’t go to most these hell-holes in America so they don’t generally experience the lack of security therein! What most of these areas have is ghettos of Blacks and Hispanics and occasionally street gangs that sell drugs. What you have in Athens is less violent but equally depressing and more full of prostitution and white heroin addicts. It’s crappy and you need a government that will clean it up.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            You fix your country first, and then maybe you can go to Greece and critcize Greeks for not fixing theirs. No one has to go to Omonia after dark, just like they don’t need to go to the ghettos in the States. Even as rich as the US is, it has ghettos. Guess what, there are no ghettos in Athens

          • Demetri Roubanis

            BTW, Compton is actually a nice neighborhood now.

          • maxime1793

            Not really.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Unless you re afraid of black people like most racist anti immigrant right wingers like you, then it’s not. Compton is not a dangerous neighborhood anymore.

          • franko

            My God, you come off as remarkably ignorant and naive

          • Demetri Roubanis

            How so? Explain how you came to that conclusion?

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Yeah, Patision is a dump, so is Flynt Michigan, so is Barstow, so is Detroit, so is Lakewood, so is Tacoma, so is the Sodo district in Seattle. The difference is that parts of Athens are a “dump” as you said, because of austerity and horrible right wing policies, and the complete destruction of the Greek economy. It still does not mean its not safe. And thanks for coming in as a tourist to open the eyes of someone who lives in the middle of it all, and I m sure knows way more about what goes on in his own neighborhood, than some douchebag Republican tourist from America

          • maxime1793

            I never vote Republican. I always go to Greece on research or study visits; I have only once been as a pure tourist.

            Do you go to Flint, MI (sp!) as a tourist anyway? Tacoma, WA? Probably not.

            Your two-party oligarchy destroyed Central Athens; partly, yes, through mass the import of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, though I must say this aspect of the problem is beginning to solve itself.

            LEFTISTS NEED TO ADMIT THAT IMMIGRATION IS A PROBLEM. Communist parties in France and Scandinavia used to. The labour unions in the US used to and a couple of them still do to a degree. Get rational!

          • Demetri Roubanis

            You are a right winger, i read a good deal of your posts. You never vote Republican? Maybe so, but I have a very hard time believing that, based on the fact that you are a right winger, and that you are a liar.

          • maxime1793

            I’m a social conservative; why do you think I like Greece? You think it is because of the idiot anarchists running around treating each other like crap? No, you have a great, ancient Orthodox culture – that is your culture! Don’t forsake it!

            I think you are the same person who used to post from an anonymous account.

            You have a stupid understanding of American politics – the Republican Party is very pro-immigration. You are guessing I vote Republican because of immigration???? Crime???? The capitalist forces that control the GOP want to exploit cheap Mexican labour, which is all the cheaper if it is illegal and outside Social Security and minimum wage laws. The Democratic racial lobbies demand amnesty and the Chamber of Commerce Republican lobbies promote virtual amnesty via formal (sanctuary cities) and informal criminal arrangements to not enforce laws.

            But then we have you idiot anarchists running around demanding there be no borders ever – which is predatory capitalist globalisation in a nutshell. A great achievement of the “New Left”.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            A couple of things. I am not an anarchist. I live in Seattle and have a very good understanding of American politics, No one suggested “no borders”, predatory capitalism has nothing to do with the “left”, and one of the worst and most corrupt part of Greece, is the Orthodox Church. I have allot more respect for the true ancient culture of Greece. I would like to know what is the difference between avoiding the places in the US where you know there is crime is any different than avoiding Patision. Athens is a safe city. That’s all I m saying. You may think otherwise, but its just a fact. I grew up there, my family lives there, and I visit every summer. Your description is inaccurate, and it’s because you see it with your racist social conservative eyes, that supports your anti-immigration rhetoric. One thing Greeks hate more than “illegal immigrants”, is douchebag tourists like you, with your patronizing “I know what you lazy Greeks need to fix your country” attitude, spread LIES about what it’s like there. I would like for you to refute crime statistics, that show, that Athens has a FAR LOWER murder and crime rate than EVERY major US CITY

          • Demetri Roubanis

            And I have never posted from an anonymous account.

          • Guest

            I am concerned for the working class wherever they are from.

          • greekygeek

            I have concern for the working class wherever they are from.

          • Homer

            Do you? The illegal migrants flocking to Greece only hurt the Greek working class. Both by driving down wages and by putting undue pressure on social services. Not to mention the increase in crime directly attributed to illegals.
            GDs main support is coming from the poor working classes…what does that say to you?
            Also there has never been a mass movement whether left or right that wasn’t backed by big money.

          • greekygeek

            The Bolsheviks werent backed by big money.

          • Homer

            Oh no? If you say so…

          • greekygeek

            Oh sorry they were German agents funded by Jewish Bankers

          • Homer

            This coming from a guy who loves to quote Trotsky…

          • maxime1793

            Can’t one say they were funded by Germans and bankers opposed to the tsar without that meaning they were always their agents? If they had no assistance, they would not have gotten back into the country or had the funds to carry out the revolution at all!

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Having checked out your general trend on your posts, i now understand where you re coming from. You are a filthy Nazi, anti-Semite, disguised as an intellectual.

          • maxime1793

            Yeah, because everything is “code language” for hating Jews, right? Again, grow up.

          • Alice Louise Moore

            The Kaiser backed the Bolsheviks. That’s pretty big money.

          • greekygeek

            I support a fair wage for all. I dont think workers should be at the mercy of the market wherever they are from. In the final analysis you are an apologist for capitalism

          • Homer

            I won’t disagree that capitalism has a lot to answer for in its own right but it certianly is a far superior system that communism proved to be. It has also killed a lot less people…

          • greekygeek

            First of all we have different notions of what communism is. Stalin, Mao et al betrayed the working class. Stalin killed socialist minded intellectuals and workers who wanted a political revolution against the soviet bureaucracy. Secondly capitalism has killed less people? What about ww1 and 2 not to mention all the countless who die every day from preventable accidents and diseases.

          • Homer

            So you justify the killings of communism by simply saying that the biggest leaders of the movement betrayed their ideals? Weak in my books…Capitalism in its current form has also betrayed its ideals.

            WW1 and 2 did have an economic element to it but it
            was more a power play between empires mainly Germany and France for hegemony over Europe. Which is what the EU is all about except without the bullets…for now!

            Communism on the other hand turned on the very people it seeked support from and promised to help.

            In the end I believe in equal opportunity but equal outcomes which is what socialism wants is an quixotic dream…it goes against human nature and economic realities.

            As for accidents and diseases…did you ever bother to read about the environmental degredation in post commie country’s? Don’t think they cared very much about people’s health either…

          • greekygeek

            Again we have different notions of what communism is. I doubt you will but read “Revolution Betrayed” by Leon Trotsky to see a left critique of the USSR under Stalin. Secondly, where did I justify the killings of “communism”? The biggest counterrevolutionary force in the 20th century was Stalinism in all its variants. It propped up bourgeois rule internationally and in the late 80s they liquidated the soviet union and they became oligarchs. The communist party in China presides over the most brutal exploitation of workers. Anyway I only answered because I thought your slander of my being an apologist of Stalinism was unacceptable. You’re welcome to have the last word, just know that I won’t reply. There’s no point…

          • Homer

            Trotsky would send you to Siberia in a heartbeat if it meant power for himself…but you go on worshiping your idol…and you say I’m prostrating!

          • maxime1793

            Tell me, why do most Trot parties constantly agitate for NATO-led aggression under the cover of claiming to support ‘workers’ revolutions’ that never have much to do with workers in, over the years, Poland, Serbia, Egypt, Syria, Libya. It is the same game over and over – since you want to talk about ‘propping up bourgeois rule’. I hope whatever faction you belong to is not involved in this.

          • greekygeek

            You are referring to pseudo-left parties like the ISO in America the NPA in France and the SWP in the UK. The ICFI has consistently opposed such actions and has nothing to do with providing left cover to imperialism. See for yourself on http://www.wsws.org

          • maxime1793

            Okay, if you don’t go along with that but take the SEP/WSWS line on foreign policy then I will accord you some respect. However, WSWS is also impossible and thinks everyone is a traitor to the “working class” all the time, while I think few of those intellectuals inhabiting the internet are working class themselves.

            But they do run a decent news service if you filter their sectarianism.

          • maxime1793

            Actually, the USSR peaked at about 55% US GDP PPP in the mid-70s, but that is considering (a) the Russian Empire was at about 21% in 1913 and (b) the USSR was massively more destroyed at by the great wars than the US.

            State planning was economically successful, otherwise, Hitler would have won the war.

            This, of course, is not relevant to XA which is neither neoliberal nor socialist, I’m just saying greekygeek is not wrong in my book for being a communist of some sort but for being the type of modern neo-communist who hates nationalism so much, he is quick to ally with neoliberal globalisation.

          • greekygeek

            What failed in the USSR was “Socialism in one country”. Trotsky was the only one in 1938 who predicted that if there was no political revolution against the Stalinist clique eventually capitalism would be restored. You may wish to read The Revolution Betrayed, which has stood the test of time. It is not based on shamanism or tarot reading but scientific socialism. You may reject that society is governed by a law governed process, which if uncovered allow one to make prognoses for the future, and you’re welcome to that opinion. As I told you before many others, especially the young, in the coming period will come to a different conclusion. Finally, I reject your notion that internationalism equates neo-liberalism and I refer you to my previous comment on this. Anyhow as I told Homer you’re welcome to have the last word but I will not be posting anymore comments. We’re not going to convince each other and I don’t want to engage in pointless point scoring. I only replied because of your previous comment and did not wanted to be associated with providing a left cover for imperialist operations in Syria, Libya, Serbia etc.

          • maxime1793

            I am glad you don’t want to be associated with NATO-imperialism. On internationalism, however, real internationalism must be built on strong nations which already have a degree of social justice. You cannot dissolve the virtual borders between Somalia and Norway and permit free movement of people and labour now without this meaning neoliberalism. You cannot even properly relate the working class of Somalia and Norway today not because only nations matter but because of vastly different material circumstances.

            The SEP line seems to be “global revolution or bust”, which is ridiculous. It constantly attacks attempts to defend workers from globalisation as “protectionism”. So, you prefer neoliberal free trade?!?! That’s the implication! It constantly is angry the PCF in the early 80s under Marchais attacked high levels of immigration as well as drug dealing and crime. Well, it has gone very New Left on all those issues and lost 80% of its votes because it no longer represents the working class.

            Again and again, the association of internationalism with immediate open borders by the post-60s Far Left is aiding and abetting liberal globalisation! Please, realise this and correct your tendencies.

          • Drakken

            No matter how many bloody times you effing genius’s try communism, it always fails, no matter how many bodies it takes to try, thanks but no thanks, you deserve to perish if you try.

          • Rizospastis

            I don’t need to justify the “killings of communism” because I do not consider the ideologies communist even a little.

            You spout so much abstract nonsense its ridiculous. “Communism turned on the very people it seeked support from and promised to help”, lol.

            “Human nature”, really? Capitalism didn’t develop as a reflection of human nature. Vice versa, rather, although I wouldn’t call it human nature but rather superimposed behaivour by the superstructures of capitalism.

            Modern humanity has existed for 150,000-200,000 years (and humanity itself for millions). Class society for last ca. 5,000-10,000 of those years. Before class society, there was primitive communism. To say that “capitalism” is natural to the human is nonsensical and signifies a complete ignorance of history.

          • maxime1793

            “Modern humanity has existed for 150,000-200,000 years (and humanity
            itself for millions). Class society for last ca. 5,000-10,000 of those
            years.”

            —That is unscientific, even if Engels said so. We don’t need your guesses at prehistory. In any case, I thought according to Marxism capitalism IS natural because it developed as a more efficient mode of production and distribution (“primitive communism” – slavery – feudalism – capitalism – socialism – communism). Right?

            Marxism is opposed to Rousseauian glorification of primitive society. At least it used to be.

          • KonstantinosChantzis

            I do say that as well.

            “primitive communism. ”

            you mean primitive capitalism

            people in caves traded alot. there was no central authority dictate market transactions.

            communism presupposes absence of choice and forced support for the a collective (not natural collective but literature created class collective) as an “end” not a “means”.

            go do your homework

          • Lord Ruthven

            “was more a power play between empires mainly Germany and France for hegemony over Europe.” This is false..

          • Drakken

            No matter how many times you commis try communism, it always fails and ends up with stacks of dead bodies.

          • maxime1793

            “Stalin killed socialist minded intellectuals and workers who wanted a political revolution against the soviet bureaucracy”

            —i.e., Stalin averted another bloody civil war. It was Trots and other Left factionalists who kicked off the violence in the late 20s, ransacking churches, killing clergy, attacking peasant farmers, etc.

          • greekygeek

            It’s amazing how readily right wingers embrace stalinism and its lies. Robert Service is that you?

          • maxime1793

            I didn’t realise Service was pro-Stalin. He wrote a negative biography of Stalin before Trotsky. Look, I’m an economic socialist who also respects traditions, cultures, civilisation, and religion. Trotskyism was more violent and anti-civilisation than Stalinism. Ultimately, even when Trotskyites reflect, they are only sad the revolution was not more violent and that they did not totally purge the old national cultures and religions quickly enough.

            Are you sorry for all the priests, monks, and nuns murdered in the USSR or did they deserve it because they represented a reactionary institution?

          • maxime1793

            After all, was it Stalin or Trotsky who wrote “Defence of Terrorism”?

          • Lord Ruthven

            What???? In the communist gulags died at least 50 to 60 million people.
            In Ukraine, 10 million people died in a single winter because of Soviets. And millions died in China and in southern Asia.
            Communism was the regime that killed more people in the 20th century (about 100 millions). So, yes…

          • Rizospastis

            Marxism-Leninism and all of its bastardizations were/are forms of capital mangement.

            Furthermore, it is ridiculous to claim that this so-called “communism” killed “a lot less people” than capitalism. This is a blatant lie, or signifies a complete ignorance of historical understanding, and material analysis. But then again, what should one expect from defenders of capitalism?

          • VT

            Communism has killed more people than capitalism has?! You gotta be kidding!

            Germany’s Nazi expansionism — responsible for the estimated 100 million deaths it caused in WWII — was fully supported by the big capital in Germany (and not by the German left).

          • Alice Louise Moore

            Hitler was a socialist. Nazi is the short form of National Socialist in the German language.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Alice, you are a moron

          • Drakken

            Hmmm capitalism versus communism? I’ll take capitism over anything you bloody reds have to offer.

          • maxime1793

            You can’t have a living wage for 2 million unemployed Greeks plus a million illegal immigrants plus open borders so anyone can come in and be guaranteed a living wage.

            You do understand, that is impossible?!

          • greekygeek

            Well no you can’t unless you touch the ill-gotten gains of the elite. Next time you visit Greece take a walk round Kolonaki and Ekali and tell me if you see any signs of austerity there…

          • maxime1793

            Well I do in Kolonaki a bit because there are business closures, but I have not been to Ekali and Glyfada.

            You can socialise all the wealth in Greece but you cannot supply an unlimited amount to accommodate the free influx of labour from the whole world. Any real government, even of any communist tendency, would restrict immigration at a certain point.

          • Guest

            Ah, you live in Kolonaki and write the crap about Exarcheia. I guess we know your type, then.

            As I have pointed out to you, in your right wing ignorance, over on oD, the Greek state actually participates in the trafficking of immigrants into Greece, making money out of them. As you know, irregular migrants pay many thousands of dollars to reach Greece from Africa or Asia. Some of that money goes to corrupt officials in the Greek state.

            So, your childish idea that governments want to restrict immigration is completely wrong. Maybe some politicians want to, but the entire state apparatus is caught up in doing the opposite. Also, if you knew anything about greece, you would know that of the 70,000 immigrants unlawfully detained under Operation Xenios this year, 94% of them have legal documents. They were rounded up in the streets for not looking European, and temporarily imprisoned. This is the fascist mentality of the Greek government and the Greek police. They actually enabled these immigrants to come to Greece, and then treat them like shit and pretend that this is a problem that someone else has caused.

          • maxime1793

            “As I have pointed out to you, in your right wing ignorance, over on oD,
            the Greek state actually participates in the trafficking of immigrants
            into Greece, making money out of them”

            —I know to the small anarchist mind, this means that the illegal immigrants are saintly victims of the government and the native population is to be blamed for having such a stupid government so their rights are basically secondary. However, a real Greek Left would attack the government WITHOUT claiming this gives illegal immigrants the right to be in Europe.

            “So, your childish idea that governments want to restrict immigration is completely wrong.”

            —You can’t read English if you think that is what I said.

            “They were rounded up in the streets for not looking European”
            —And loitering on the streets……

            In any case, the Operation is for show. Obviously, ND is complicit in the problem.

          • Guest

            you are just an out and out racist, my friend. You hear and see what you want to hear and see.

            If your concern was with humanity, you would feel for the greeks and the immigrants who are starving and suffering. How much money do you give to people begging on the streets of Athens? I give to both Greeks and immigrants. On a good day, after getting paid, I usually give 5 euros a person and easily encounter 8 people on a short walk in the centre.

            I mention this because people like you, and I have known many, usually give NOTHING to others in need.

          • VT

            Are there really a million illegal migrants in Greece?

          • maxime1793

            If you include bogus asylum seekers, then it is probably 700k to 1.5 million somewhere. Officially, from one source, there are 950k foreigners in Greece.

          • Drakken

            And your a communist, Sorry but that nonsense has been tried before numerous times, it never ends well.

          • KonstantinosChantzis

            I am a supporter for capitalism that creates jobs so that the working class can actually work.

            more info here:

            http://www.idiotscollective.com/2010/12/why-not-give-them-spoons.html

          • Demetri Roubanis

            He’s an apologist for un-fettered capitalism. Capitalism with strong social safety nets, and worker protections is ok with me (see Sweden and Denmark). What these bozos want however is feudalistic capitalism, and they dont even realize that they are being bamboozled to believe that somehow Capitalism=freedom or democracy.

          • maxime1793

            I bet you don’t know the first thing about Scandinavia.

            Firstly, your protections are only good if you get a job. In Sweden, this is particularly a problem. Secondly, some of the protections only come into play if you have long-standing contracts. For example, you might not be eligible for maternal leave if your business puts you on constant temporary contracts. Immigration is actually controlled, of course, if that is a problem for you. Plus, you pay taxes through the nose but the real ruling class is largely exempt. Norway used to have a skattelist published online where you could see the richest offshored their money and paid no tax at all.

            But idiot SYRIZA-ites think they should copy North Europe, all while being suppressed by it.

          • thm

            All your arguments are invalid.

            – Please explain what exactly are the jobs that the ILLEGAL immigrants are taking away way from greek hands?
            – The ILLEGAL immigrants are putting pressure on the social services? Are you kidding? What about the size of the puclic sector?
            – GD are working class. Yes. Taki explained it earlier… “martial artists, cops, security personnel”.

            Illegal immigration is a problem indeed. But let’s not talk out of our back side!

          • maxime1793

            All over the world, when illegal immigrants become prevalent and this is tolerated by the authorities it is because some of them work for legal or illegal businesses. Some illegals work in factories. In the US, on rare occasion, these get raided. It has reduced the wages at some of these factories massively, with incoming Central Americans displacing native Blacks. Then the “Left” says they deserve to be here because NAFTA forced them off their land. That’s awful, I agree, but NAFTA also shipped Americans’ jobs overseas, so why do the latter get punished again and again and again and again and again and again and again….

            and if I say something, that makes ME a racist while capitalists are laughing at all of us?

            Illegal immigrants DO take jobs people would do – as if they were not there driving up the labour supply, wages would be high enough to support workers who live legally and must pay taxes, don’t live 20 to a house, etc.

          • Rizospastis

            Yes, and like an idiot you reduce it to an issue of “illegal immigration”. This is not the issue, and by mumbling about this like a moron you’re only doing the bidding of the bourgeoisie. People like you defend the bourgeois ideological status quo, knowingly or inavertedly, because you cause rifts and separate the unity of the proletariat and thus by extensions cause false conciousness to replace class conciousness, by trying to point out fellow proletarians as “enemies”. We have one enemy, and one enemy only: The bourgeoisie.

            And one thing and one thing only will crush this bourgeoisie, namely the hammer that is communism, after which through a proletarian state dictatorship we will solidify our emancipation and the expropriation of our enemy.

          • maxime1793

            No, the bourgeoisie’s interest is in DRIVING DOWN WAGES. This is achieved by INCREASING LABOUR SUPPLY. It is the same in the US with Central Americans, the same in some certain European countries. Communist parties up through the 70s often understood this and had normal immigration policies – now you are controlled by suicidal anti-working class New Left theories that erode your popularity and voting base.

            Look at the PCF – down 80%! PCI > Rifondazione > a wing of tiny electoral coalitions – down 95%! This is not just because the USSR fell, but because the ideology of communist parties changed – economic Marxism is being displaced by cultural Marxism. I actually respect the KKE that it has mostly resisted these trends and remained opposed to the European Union but its immigration policy is incomprehensible.

            You can support and sympathise with immigrants without being pro-immigration. And it is a travesty that you go around screaming at people for being “idiots” while it is YOU having a PRO-LIBERAL BOURGEOIS CAPITALIST position on immigration. Free trade = free labour = open borders = everyone at a Third World standard of living. I thought KKE-style communists should understand you have open borders once communism is accessible not before you are closer to establishing Socialism (“proletarian state dictatorship” in your own ideology).

            So you tell me how exactly is it supposed to work, what is the rational plan, for legalising all illegal immigrants and asylum-seekers and basically setting no plan for restricting immigration but providing a good standard of living and work to all?

          • Guest

            The problem for immigrants in Greece is the same as the problem for greeks. By making this racist disctintion, you distract attention from the real problems and create your own little pet project — which also happens to be the same as that of Golden Dawn.

            So, are you a member of this Nazi party?

          • Drakken

            You commis go ahead and try to take us down, you will find that we won’t go quietly into the night and that we don’t take prisoners

          • thm

            You obviously are out of touch with reality. To what extend you think Greek people are going for the same jobs with ILLEGAL immigrants??????

            And no… I do not think that illegal immigrands shouwl stay. I just think thet should be treated better than having to face concentration camps.

            And you know what? IMO, perhaps Greece should come out of the Dublin2 treaty, and f/w them to central Europe…

          • maxime1793

            With 30% unemployment, plenty. If unemployment were 7%, then few.

            They say the same thing in the US all the time, that illegals take jobs Americans won’t do. Once John McCain at a was speaking in Michigan, a depressed ex-industrial state, and, as if to taunt them, asked who would actually move to the Southwest and work on an agricultural farm even if it paid a living wage (actually more, he said $50/hr, shows what he knows about real life). Many people raised their hands. He was confused (he’s not very smart) and arrogantly told them they were wrong, they wouldn’t do it.

            But obviously they won’t do it off the books for SLAVERY WAGES.

            I don’t think Greeks are lazy, I see many of them working all the time hoping to make ends meet.

            “And you know what? IMO, perhaps Greece should come out of the Dublin2 treaty, and f/w them to central Europe…”

            —I know that is the SYRIZA/KKE policy (to end Dublin II, legalise the illegals and give them travel documents so they can leave with the rationale most will). However, even when I fly Greece-Germany now my passport gets checked upon arrival (so much for Schengen), so that doesn’t sound too effective to me. It is like SYRIZA’s euro policy, stay in but tell people your own terms. It’d last 15 minutes … and you’ll probably just end up with huge numbers of legalised residents you can’t deport.

          • thm

            1.) Illegal immigrands are doing jobs that Greeks would not do. This is not to say that Greeks are lazy or that illegals should stay in the country. You don’t want them? Fine. There is not need to punish them though in concentration camps though or leave the GD gang to scare the shite out of them. It is unethical by my book. Besides… not even 2% of the illegals who enter want to stay in Greece!

            2.) Leave SYRIZA/KKE out of the conversation please. They have -and never had- no grasp ot reallity.

            3.) By coming out of the D.2 treaty, the rest of the countries would not be able to send the illegals back to Greece (i.e point of entry).

            4.) In terms of financial policies, both the Memorandum and the SYRIZA way are doomed to fail. Main reason being that both would require the greek society to work as a whole towards specific short & long term targets. But with the population divided it’s simply a summer nights dream.

          • Guest

            If you are comparing Greece with the USA, then it must mean that you are an idiot.

          • maxime1793

            Or I could just pretend there is no problem…

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Thanks for being so complementary of Greeks, and telling us we re not lazy, you are so kind. But just stay home, or go somewhere else next time. Don’t go to Greece, since you hate it so much, and there’s “so much crime” and you feel “unsafe”. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GREECE. Your opinions about Greek society, economy etc. are not based on any facts whatsoever

          • maxime1793

            You won’t get foreigners more pro-Greek than myself visiting :)

            Central Athens is largely unsafe which is why tourists are boxed in near Plaka. Everyone knows this, Greeks especially. If this pisses off people who squat in buildings in Exarcheia, oh well.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Wow, the more you write, the more stupid you sound. “tourists are boxed in Plaka’????Are you fucking joking? Plaka is where the tourists are, because THATS THE TOURIST PART of Athens. That’s what people go to see. Syntagma square, Plaka, the old town, Acropolis. Why the fuck would tourists want to go to Exarchia? To see the apartment buildings? Its like saying that tourists in Whistler are “boxed in” near the ski slopes…

          • maxime1793

            A lot of the hotels built in the 60s are around Omonia. However, they cannot fill them because it is disgusting in that area. Therefore, their rooms sell at ridiculously low prices (even 20 EUR a night) versus minimum of about 80 around Plaka.

            And I’ll remind you, your best museum is unfortunately next to the Polytechnical University.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            …pro-Greek? Are some of your best friends black, too?

          • maxime1793

            Not my best ones, no, but I am not afraid of them like you.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            “largely unsafe’??? What statistical evidence do you have, to make that assertion?

            https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=11992

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Here is a reality dose for you my friend. why don’t you read this,

            http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Greece/United-States/Crime

            and tell me whats up. unsafe in Greece? I dont think so. I think that if you want to be safe, you might want to move away from the US…

          • maxime1793

            I don’t live there, moron. You think you know me by stalking my Disqus posts?

          • Guest

            Moronic comments, with no knowledge of anything.

          • maxime1793

            Anonymous Disqus stalker, you’re losing.

          • Guest

            When I used to post on the web under my real name, I appeared on the hit lists of Golden Dawn and was threatened in many ways, including pseudonymous emails to my research institute(s). This is because I am a well known expert on this topic and do not reach conclusions that Nazis would like about immigrants.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            So many inaccuracies, so little patience. What “left” says that “they deserve to be here because NAFTA forced them off their land”…????!!!!???!?!??!??!??!?!? The “left” in the US, barely exists. If you even talk about a minimum wage, or a Union you are labeled a communist. Every time anyone tries to argue for a benefit, or a social program, the argument always turns into “communism vs capitalism”.

          • maxime1793

            If you wish to restrict the Left to Marxist groups, the marginal ones that exist ALL, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, argue for open borders. They prioritise immigration politics currently above issues like, say, nationalisation of banks and energy companies, which is practically not mentioned. I have read a great deal of far-left literature.

            There may be a small handful of Democratic Congressmen who oppose illegal immigration amnesty due to their ties to, and support from, organised labour. They’ve weakened steadily through the years on (legal) H1B visas as well.

          • Guest

            Yes, you are right. There are no jobs being taken away from Greeks. This is just lies and propaganda to claim it.

            Also, see my comment above about who is responsible for the irregular immigration flows into Greece. Corrupt officials in the Greek state system…

          • Guest

            True, but don’t forget that in Greece (and some other countries) there are people making a lot of money out of the smuggling and trafficking of illegal migrants. In Greece, owing to the massive corruption of both the State and the political parties, this is big business for some individuals of high rank in the State system.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            Homer. Whats driving wages down is 25% unemployment, and right wing austerity policies. Minimum wage in Greece is 450 Euros a month, and living costs in Athens are as High as Berlin. The problem is dumbasses like you that buy into these narratives, that are designed to keep your eye on the Albanian, while the Bankster is picking your pocket

          • Demetri Roubanis

            GD’s support comes from the UNEDUCATED classes

          • maxime1793

            The uneducated in Europe often support the far-right because they know they’re being screwed the most, being put in the most vulnerable position. It should be a source of understanding rather than ridicule. The French National Front, for example, was originally supported more by the petite bourgeoisie and farmers, but now is the number one party of the working class, gaining very few upper-educated voters. This is not because their policies are entirely stupid but the latter see some benefit in Europeanisation and globalisation.

          • KonstantinosChantzis

            “I have concern for the working class wherever they are from”

            depends on the definition of “work”

            the average marxist scum seem to think that [work = time wasted] thus it should be (pre)payed. e.g. you picking your nose.

            we have no working class in greece since the golden years of post junta socialism made the average greek a state-dependent junkie. he doesn’t work. he is maintained.

          • Demetri Roubanis

            They are human beings. Are the Greeks in Toronto, Sidney, New York, Munich, and so on, “INVADERS”??? Or are they people looking for a better life? You have to deal with unlawful immigration, there is no doubt about that, but you are buying in to the GD narrative, that somehow the only way to solve the problem is with violence and hatred….How much you care about the Greek people who are suffering has nothing to do with the immigrants, and the way they are treated. Your beef is against people who are also victims of the same Imperialism and global takeoverism that is destroying Greece and economically enslaving them. Don’t buy into the fascist propaganda.

        • Drakken

          As a communist, I do foresee a rope and a lamp post in the near future for you. That is what you communist deserve.

      • Demetri Roubanis

        Populist stunts. They are all fascist, junta lovers and Nazis. I would starve to death rather than take a piece of bread from those ass munching traitors. Fuck their charity and their militias. They are Nazis, get it????? Why don’t you google what the Nazis did to Greece and Greeks. They should all be exiled or inprisoned for treason. XA is nothing but a Hitler loving fascist THUG, hater party

        • maxime1793

          I’m well aware of the origins of XA. I know it is mixed up with neo-Nazism and neopaganism and Nordophilia. They’ve moved slightly away from these but it is largely the same leadership it used to be so it is probably opportunistic. I’m aware of this!

          At the same time, is XA enforcing the Memorandum? No. Is the junta worse than the Memoranda? No. Everyone I’ve asked says the economy was much better under the junta, Communists included!

          This is frankly how I’d rank the parliamentary parties right now:
          1. KKE 2. ANEL 3. XA 4. SYRIZA 5. ND 6. DIMAR 7. PASOK

          I ranked the Communists first because I’m such an evil extreme right-wing bigot. Look, your criminal government is your biggest enemy, not replaying the Civil War or the events of 1974. That crap is in the past, it doesn’t matter! Patriots of Right and Left better start hanging together or they’ll hang separate with idiot antifa running around aiding the government to pass its Enabling Act to ban political opposition!

    • Homer

      (And if you believe that, you probably deem rap an art.)

      I suppose humour is beyond your intellectual capacities…

    • jvcguest

      greekygeek

      Are you too thick, even if you are not familiar with Taki’s writing, to pick up the obvious? His reference to being self-made is quite obviously a not too sophisticated self-send up.. And I mean obviously. So obvious that it casts serious doubt on everything else you say. And now I look back it gets worse. What he said was ” After all, given that I’m a self-made man it is right and proper for me to enjoy my golden years in comfort. (And if you believe that, you probably deem rap an art.)”

      • greekygeek

        Sadly it’s all to easy to lose oneself in Taki’s verbose ramblings. So he was being sarcastic and I missed it. Fine I’ll give him that, and of course you’re entitled to discount everything else I said on account of my error…

      • Homer

        greekygeek doesn’t need to read anyones writing he already has his responses memorised…Trotsky! Trotsky! Trostky!

    • Alistair Kerr

      I think that “self made” is meant to be a joke. Everyone knows that Taki’s father was rich and that he inherited a lot. Can’t say whether he bankrolls GD, but suspect that he is too canny for that.

    • Demetri Roubanis

      You go greekygeek, tell it like it is brother!!

  • James Miller, PhD

    Who wouldn’t want a Fascist gov’t??? Read and learn:

    http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-is-fascism.html

    James Miller, PhD
    Los Angeles, CA

    • maxime1793

      I don’t want a Nazi government with eugenicist racial theories empowered!

    • accrete786

      Take your medication James, and I take it you are not native American.

      Bye Bye

  • Mona Eberhardt

    So, swastikas, idolisation of the NSDAP, Holocaust denial and glorification of the Nazi occupation forces are “Greek patriotism”? I call bullshit. Taki is an irrelevant extreme-right wingnut who is a few centuries past his sell-by date. BTW, nazi collaborators are not regarded as patriots in ANY of the countries occupied and ruined by Germany in WW2, but as traitors.

    So, Taki is telling us that traitors are patriots.

    • Robert Bailey

      You are so far up your own arse lady…must be great for you…but a tad boring for us…Taki provides us with some humour against you NAZIS…

    • Vrai écossais

      “BTW, nazi collaborators are not regarded as patriots in ANY of the
      countries occupied and ruined by Germany in WW2, but as traitors.”

      Does the qualifier have to be occupied and ruined by Germany in WW2? Define ruined (literal, economic, architecturally, demographically or metaphysical?)

      They are only traitors as Germany lost the war, they would be patriots if Germany had won, so one mans hero is another mans enemy.

    • Ola_Bog

      Right you are, Mona!
      Greetings from Norway ~
      B-)

    • maxime1793

      It’s complicated because the mainstream parties are obvious traitors for the Memorandum and for Dublin II, which puts Greece in the insane position of having about 2 million illegal immigrants in the country because Germany/Scandinavia/France/etc. can deport illegals to Greece if they first entered the Schengen Zone in Greece and then the latter is required somehow to support these people!?!?! Obviously, they can’t and the result is homelessness, drug dealing, and crime. But since New Democracy and PASOK caused the problem, they lie low, deny the severity of things, tell the police not to intervene, etc., which is why you get vigilante groups.

      I’d hope one could get such groups that were not ironically Teutonophiles while the Teutonic banks pillage their country. However, it is hard to say XA is more treasonous than the ruling parties due to history of 70 years ago. The whole situation is a sad circus.

      • Fritz123

        And they cant leave/ignore Dublin because of the money…

        • maxime1793

          They should default. They only actually get about 18% of the loans anyway and are liable for interest on the whole loan. That is why it is so treasonous to begin with. They don’t need it, default, leave.

    • maxime1793

      “BTW, nazi collaborators are not regarded as patriots in ANY of the
      countries occupied and ruined by Germany in WW2, but as traitors.”

      Baltic states, Western Ukraine, Croatia, some Hungarians…?

    • Homer

      People like you see swastikas whenever a group deems itself patriotic…the real fascists are the multiculturalists that want to destroy the various ethnic indentities in Europe.
      And what relevance is the holocaust to Greece? Greeks did not participate in it and it didnt happen in Greece…so why should Greeks care? Do you care about the Dead Greeks in WW2…the the mass executions, the forced famine, the subsequent civil war…do you?
      Did you know that the government in Greece that resisited the NAZIs was fascist in WW2…bet you did not?
      GD is not NAZI…it simply wants “ILLEGAL” invaders to leave…maybe your country can open their borders and warmly welcome them?

      • thm

        “GD is not NAZI…it simply wants “ILLEGAL” invaders to leave”

        –> You are entitled to your opinion, but with this statement you are also embarassing yourself!

        • Homer

          So you support uncontrolled illegal migration then?
          GD are not NAZIs…they are nationalists…but like Mona you think anyone who wants to preserve their culture is a NAZI.

          • thm

            1.) I do NOT support illegal immigration.

            2.) Illegal immigration should be the responsibility of the state and NOT of tollerated gangs.

            3.) Regarding GD, may I say that you ARE actually embarassing yourself by not admitting they are NAZI, the minute they are publicly admitting it! :-)

            * http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/HA1cover.jpg
            * http://www.redpepper.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/goldendawnmag.jpg
            *http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dc138afcbdca740261ffedfff60c1131
            *http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hjl8sZp7gqc/UFJ0rXmeXSI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/y9fklV8x0lg/s400/periodiko-xa-a.t.-122-ioun-ioul-2005.jpg
            * http://www.grreporter.info/en/sites/default/files/galery/maria/Mihaloliakos%2080.JPG

            I.Kasidiaris, Golden Dawn Magazone, April 20, 2011:
            “What would the future of Europe and the whole modern world be like if World War II hadn’t stopped the renewing route of National Socialism? Certainly, fundamental values which mainly derive from ancient Greek culture, would be dominant in every state and would define the fate of peoples. Romanticism as a spiritual movement and classicism would prevail againstthe decadent subculture that corroded the white man. Extreme materialism would have been discarded, giving its place to spiritual exaltation”.
            * In the same article, Adolf Hitler is characterized as a “great social reformer and military genius.”

            N. Michaloliakos, 1987 Golden Dawn Magazine:
            “We are the faithful soldiers of the National Socialist idea and nothing else”
            “[…] WE EXIST, and continue the battle, the battle for the final victory of our race”
            “1987, 42 years later, with our thought and soul given to the last great battle, with our thought and soul given to the black and red banners, with our thought and soul given to the memory of our great Leader, we raise our right hand up, we salute the Sun and with the courage, that is compelled by our military honor and our National Socialist duty we shout full of passion, faith to the future and our visions: HEIL HITLER!”

          • Homer

            So what then does one do when the state relinquishes it’s duty and responsibility to manage its borders like the Greek state has?

            I can also find several blogs where they claim to be nationalists and fancy themselves to be in the image of the Metaxas regime.

            Again I do not believe they are NAZIs…the NAZIs had ideals of racial supremacy, conquest and German Empire…GD wants to preserve the Greek ethnos and keep Greece a Greek state as opposed to a multicultural state Europe promotes for its own ends. Multiculturalism essentially means (in time) the end of Greeks in Greece!
            Is GD fascist, definately but are they NAZIs?…I doubt a country that’s broke with 10 million people could be even if they wanted to…perhaps we differ in our interpretation of what a NAZI is. Like I said a lot of people today associate any nationalist movement with Nazism…I don’t.
            I believe Greeks have a right to exist in our own land…land paid for with the blood of our ancestors. Greeks are not responsible if a place like Pakistan has 200 million people they can’t feed. Greece did not invite them they just came.
            And why don’t these poor destitute muslims (majority of the illegals) stay in well off muslim Turkey but instead choose to come to bankrupt destitute christian Greece? Something bigger at play and I don’t apologise for fighting to protect the Greek ethnos within our borders.

            And another point, if GD exists today it is because of the corruption and hubris of the pro Europe, centrist PASOK and ND parties that led Greece to the road its on now. And when some Greeks say I dont feel safe in my neighbourhood and I cant walk out at night b/c of hordes of illegals loitering about they are called racist…so who do they turn to when the government relinquishes its responsibilitites to its own citizens?
            You honestly think the majority of people who support GD are all NAZIs?

          • thm

            “So what then does one do when the state relinquishes it’s duty and responsibility to manage its borders like the Greek state has?”

            –> Thinking, thinking, thinking… hires a gang, right? :-/

            No. I do not think that the majority of people who have voted for GD are NAZIs. Just morons. Who all these years were voting not for the benefit of the society but their own, and now are left politically orphan, as their options had after all BAD consequences on all levels of the social life.

            In my book multiculturalism is a good thing, and should not necessarilly be confused with crime -if you know what I mean!-

            Why do you bring religion into the conversation? It is a bloody personal thing and it should be kept as such in a society that “claims” to respect all religions. (Never mind the fact that Greeks have sown the planet with Orthodox Churches, which you can even find in… Abu Dhabi!)

            You think that the people who enter GR are coming for feta and syrtaki? What if I told you they are aiming for prosperous economies in central/western Europe. GR is just the entry point.
            So leave the damn “Dublin 2” Treaty (which was a stupid idea in the first place), and f/w them west
            OR
            sign a treaty with Turkey (as Italy and Spain signed with the N.African countries) and send them back (I understand that this has also been discussed in the past, but Turkey requested special trading bonds with EU, something that Germany opposed in the past)
            OR
            find some other POLITICAL/DIPLOMATIC solution for heaven’s sake to keep them out!

            (Which may mean that politicians may have to employ the power of “thought”. That could be trikcy in Athens!)

            I do agree that GD exist today because of PASOK and ND -which drew power from people such the aforementioned morons and the poweful Unions-. Yes, they are responsible for the current financial situation, the crime levels, the failure of the Health system, the incapable Legal system, the unexistent Education.

            So what? Ok… This is our bloody reality. We have to bite the f***ing bullet, work to fix it and not disintergrate the society in the process.

            You cannot treat cancer with cancer.

          • Homer

            “–> Thinking, thinking, thinking… hires a gang, right? :-/”

            Really, a gang? I say more like vigilantes, the goon squad not the party as a whole. What did you expect with crime out of control and the authorities powerless or uninterested in finding solutions. Desperate illegals resort to crime and desperate citizens resort to GD b/c the state is dysfunctional.

            But I bet this gang you refer to would save your grandma quicker than any lefty in Greece!

            “In my book multiculturalism is a good thing”

            Multiculturalism does add a little spice superficially to a culture but it is essentially a disunifying force in society and is a tool of the elites to divide and conquer…old as the romans.

            “You think that the people who enter GR are coming for feta and syrtaki?”

            I know they are desperate people but tiny Greece cannot open its doors to a sea of 4-5 billion desperate people. How far will western altruism go..to the point of destroying itself? Seems to be the case at the moment…

            So leave the damn “Dublin 2”

            I wish… the northern Euros talk a nice talk but dublin 2 was a tool to keep the illegals in places like Greece and out of places like Germany. To appease the Greeks they throw a few bucks our way and no self respecting Greek politician can pass up a few bucks.

            “sign a treaty with Turkey”

            No Balkan state and Greece in particular can ever trust Turkey as they will forever consider us lost empire.

          • thm

            GD has an agenda, and “help for the socially weak” is just for luring.

            Greek politicians have been very short sighted since the establishment of the State almost 180 years ago. This unfortunately did not solidify GR as a modern nation that can stand on it’s own feet in terms of economic growth, and a large part of the population believes that what keeps us together is shite like “DNA purity” and religion. This is rediculous, wrong, stupid and dangarous. As such the history is full of civil disturbance, snivelling, fatalism, and blames on foreign states.. it is the Americans, the British, the Turkish, the Bulgarians, the Albanians, the Germans, the Jews, the Pakistanis, the Eskimos…

            If you cannot see this I am sorry. And unfortunately you are not the only one.

          • Homer

            I suppose that old Greek grannies call gangs for help then…what can I say. They surely cant rely on the authorities or any leftist group in Greece.
            This Greece were talking about…beating up each other up is a weekly event at sports arenas and a long tradition amongst all the political parties.
            If Greeks are addicted to government largesse that is the fault of 40+ years of ND-PASOK rule. Two parties only interested in their own power and prestige and without an original thought between them in that time.
            Multiculturalism adds a little superficial spice to a society but its a disunifying force, the elites know this thats why they promote it…divide and conquer. The multiculti leftists dont even realising they are helping the elites they hate.
            If you think religion is irrelevent then you are deluding yourself…the evidence is all over Europe, Britain, France, Sweden etc.
            I know they are desperate people but tiny Greece cannot open its borders to billions of desperate people. I wish they would leave dublin 2 but its not in the cards. The North Euros talk a good talk but Dublin 2 suits the northern Euros just fine…keep the illegals in places like Greece aqnd throw some bucks at them and a few pointy fingers for the sheep back home.

            In my opinion Greeks can never fully trust Turkey as they will forever see us as lost empire.
            Society is already disintegrating, Ive never seen Greece so weak and divided in my lifetime. How much longer will and can the northern Euros keep pumping money into Greece? Things are going to get worse I fear.
            Sometimes radical therapy is needed to save the patient…

          • Guest

            Billions of people??? Are you off your head? The number of incoming irregular immigrants (of which many are entitled to international protection) was at its worst 40,000 per month. It is now at lower levels, and a large proportion of them are Syrians.

      • Trainman

        The Greeks cared for the Jews when the ancestors of GD collaborated with the Nazis; and they still care, for they are human beings and not Nazi blackguards like you and the GD.

        No fascist government resisited (sic) the Nazis in Greece. It was an administrative government under A. Korizis appointed by King George II, an anglophile.

        • Homer

          General Ioannis Metaxas (a fascist) was in power when Mussolini (a fascist) invaded Greece. Metaxas defeated the Italians but then died in Jan 1941 at which point Korizis took office. Korizis faced the German invasion largely with the preperations Metaxas had made. So nice try but no dice.

          • Trainman

            Metaxas’ military regime gained legitimacy only through the anglophile King George II since no fascist party had ever gained the slightest popularity in Greece and Metaxas’ own party had been repeatedly condemned in the parliamentary
            elections.

            Your Nazi political and physical ancestors forgot to inform you that even Metaxas renounced fascism officially and publicly during his radio address to the Nation of 22/11/1940 declaring that “fascism cannot bear in his ranks people who struggle for higher ideals” and that Greece “is waging a war not only for herself but also for the rest of the Balkan States and for the liberty of Albania”.

            A few days later (23/11/1940), King George II correctly stated that “we struggle for the liberty, the honour and the dignity of man, and for the moral (…) that the human being is an essential value since man is not a member of an irresolute herd”. Words which retain their meaning until now…

  • thanos koukoulis

    Since tou haven’t lived in Greece for 70 years as you admit how do you actually know what is going on in the Greek inner cities and how GD members actually behave ?
    I really doupt the yound women who “like old men with boats” would actually agree to go there and I suspect you would loath to miss their company.
    So seriously stick to a subject that you might actually know something about and leave Greek politics to the people that actually live in Greece and know what is going on.

    • maxime1793

      I’ve spent a lot of time in Greek cities in the past few years. I think GD folks act better than a lot of the illegal immigrants and certainly better than anarchists.

      That doesn’t make them right, but perhaps should serve to de-diabolise them. Remember, if you did not have your situation, you would have no GD, not the other way around.

      • Guest

        Ah, this troll is a Nazi supporter. I knew it, with his racism appearing all the time, and obsession with immigration…

  • Βασίλειος Μπαμίχας

    what a pile of turd!

  • recklessmonkey

    Is this a parody account?

  • Toby_Jones

    And with that the Spectator loses whatever small claim it had left to being a serious publication

  • disqus_xYXe1f9jjJ

    fascist scum completely missing the point. fuck off.

  • Temple Melville

    “the state broadcaster ERT, as leftie as the BBC but ten times as bloated and patronage-ridden.” Really? How is such a thing possible? Surely the BBC has world exclusive rights on this particular description of simony and nepotism. You may not think the BBC has anything to do with religious rights but it is most definitely a Sacred Cow…

  • wonkywizzard

    In the 1940’s and 1950’s, the UK sent weapons to the Nazis and Fascist groups to kill resistance fighters. However you read this, the Spectator is supporting genocide and the Nazis

    • Drakken

      They sent weapons to fight you communist, it looks like they will be doing so again.

      • maxime1793

        Yeah, the UK is soooooo good and loves the national independence of the Greeks, like in the Crimean War.

        If SYRIZA takes power, I guess then you want the EU financial powers to pay for meathead militias to annihilate leftists in the streets? That would be a tragedy!

        • Drakken

          The nationalist around Europe are gaining strength and it is scaring the living daylights out of the communist in charge.

          • maxime1793

            A lot of them like Golden Dawn are anti-Israel. Did you know that? They run some expat blogs in English if you’d like to see. They rant about the “Zionists” all the time. They’re much more obsessed with them than I 😛

            One of their MPs denied the Holocaust the other day, so it is said, in Parliament.

          • Drakken

            Israel doesn’t even get up on their radar. I say let them deal with the 3rd world problem and they will sort it out in short order.

          • maxime1793
          • Drakken

            The EDL are the only ones pointing out that we in the west have a muslim problem, the rest of the establishment wants to hide their collective heads in the sand and hopes it goes away. Things are going to get a lot worse.

  • Bobdog1111

    The Spectator is a publication for a dwindling minority of red trouser wearing buffoons who think this type of trash is “banter” and represents free speech. Its only a matter of time before they become increasingly irrelevant to the majority of society. Nonetheless I am still surprised at how awful this article is

  • Declan Walsh

    You are Martin Bormann and I claim my £5.00.

  • James Moriarty

    Oh stop messing about and bring back the monarchy.

  • peterike

    Like the sun rises in the East, all the tiresome Leftists show up to wet the bed. Humorless, cowardly, self-annihilating whites whose only response to their own slow genocide is a quivering lip and a weepy apology to somebody — anybody! — as long as they are black or brown or dusky. Forgive us Gaia, for being white. We are the cancer of the world (didn’t a Jew tell us that long ago? funny how we believed her).

    Thankfully, Golden Dawn exists and some Greeks, at least, have the gall to say “Yes, we have a right to our own nation. Yes, we have a right to exist even if we aren’t black or Muslim. Yes, we want to take back our own nation from the EU commies and the invasion of third-world riff-raff.”

    Remember kids, Diversity Kills. Always has, always will. Greece for the Greeks. Africa for the Africans. How hard is that to figure out?

    • UndergroundGoddamnMonsters

      Peter Hitchens, is that you?

    • First as tragedy, then as farc

      David Irving, is that you?

    • Fritz123

      This is probably pretty wrong, see the UK since centuries. Closed shops die. It has to do with money and knowledge and manners and I would prefer many immigrants over many members of the German petit bourgoisie. But on the other hand no prols are worse than Algerian and Lebanese prols in Berlin.

    • Junis

      “How hard is that to figure out?” Can you explain to me then why there are ‘white’ people in North America, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia when these territories are not part of Europe? Racism is a code word for wealth inequality preservation. As for there being a ‘white genocide’, who is going to apologise for the deaths of non-whites in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Vietman and many more?

      • Drakken

        The color red must flow in your self hating self loathing veins.

      • maxime1793

        The PC cultural Marxist Left vs. 19th-century-style racist imperialist Right is a false choice. Either we choose to be a globalised world with no borders or we respect regions and nation-states. I choose the latter – no mass immigration, no big wars, no to free trade.

        • Guest

          Nazi troll

  • 2003james

    Sorry, I’m not from England. The Spectator is like Onion, right? Am I missing something?

  • D B

    Fired a canon?

  • D B

    Good article. People who have not seen their inner cities reduced to foetid slums might not understand it, though.

  • Edmund Schluessel

    “No facts in recent history are established more incontestably…than the numerous cases of murder, assault, and various forms of intimidation for which the National Socialist Party in Germany has been responsible… The organized economic boycott of the Jews is the climax. The Spectator has consistently shown itself a friend of Germany, but it is a friend of freedom first. Resort to violence is not condoned by styling it revolution.” — The Spectator, April 1933

    How times have changed.

    • maxime1793

      XA isn’t in power, it is the centrist government intimidating people in Greece, which gets no coverage by moderate or extremist Spectator writers.

  • spin2009

    Based on recent happenings the obvious solution is to ban the military wing of Golden Dawn.

    • maxime1793

      I don’t think there is such a thing. There is no militia coming on the streets with guns. There are just some blackshirted guys who work out in the gym together who use their muscle to run illegal immigrants out of markets and to protect some people from getting robbed.

      • Guest

        You are a member of Golden Dawn, and this is Nazi propaganda. I have encountered this elsewhere on the net.

  • Alexander Arthur

    “The Spectator’s circulation dips after it reduces giveaways”:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/18/the-spectator-retains-sales

    “Private Eye remains the biggest-selling news and current affairs title,
    with an average circulation of 206,266. It dipped slightly, down 0.4% on
    the previous six months and 0.7% year on year.”

    Desperate times, desperate means …

  • PeteStav

    This article is a disgrace. It disgusts me, you havnt live in Greece, but i do, and i see what type of thugs Golden Dawn really are, i see them giving Hitler style salutes. If that isnt fascism, then what exactly is fascism?

    • maxime1793

      I thought they went more for the Roman-style salute.

  • Junis

    The author of the above article seems to be the greatest arse*hole I have have seen. If the EU is left-wing, how come it has recently classified Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation?

    • Drakken

      Only the so called military wing, it still has an open door policy to those bloody savages.

      • maxime1793

        Why is Hizbollah “bloody savages”? They were the only force that bothered doing anything to defend the country when Israel attacked civilian infrastructure in the North, Centre, and South, inside and outside of Hizbollah areas in 2006. That’s why the patriotic Christian forces of the country are allied with them, against the Saudi-funded Hariri/Phalangist alliance that supports al-Qaeda in Syria, by the way.

        • Drakken

          It’s called warfare and that is what happens when jihadist muslims push their luck and get a well deserved azz kicking.

          • maxime1793

            It is a private militia and Israel attacked the whole country and, by their own accounts, lost.

          • Drakken

            When your enemy suffers more loses than you do it is called a win, your buddies in Hezbollah got their azzes kicked and are partying with the devil.

          • maxime1793

            I’ll take Assad and General Aoun and 60% of Lebanese Christian votes over Hariri and the Saudis and fascist militias any day. I think I know which side is more devillish. I think I know it is Saudi Arabia, not Syria, where Christianity is illegal.

            I think I know you Zionists are targeting Arab Christians and secular nationalists.

          • Drakken

            Sorry to burst your bubble but I’m Catholic not Israeli. I have a very special hard on with Hezbollah since they blew up my barracks in Beirut in 83, so whoever kills them by the thousands is good in my book. Oh those Israelis that you despise so much are the ones that support the Christians.

          • maxime1793

            I doubt you are 55 years old, but in any case, MARINES WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN LEBANON. And Reagan withdrew them.

            Israel backed the Phalange, not all the Christians. In the Civil War, eventually, all the sects were fighting within themselves as well as against each other. In the past ten years, most Christians have allied with Hizbollah and Amal (all Shi’a forces) against the Saudi-NATO-backed alliance of Sunnis + Phalange. The Armenian minority is split and the Druze switches sides constantly.

            Lebanese politics is quite complicated but no faction is pro-Israeli. Israel occupied the southern part of the country until 1998 and Hizbollah is mostly credited with running them out.

          • Drakken

            I was 17 at the time and I’ll let you do the math, the politics of Lebanese factions is a clusterf*** to say the least, hezzbollah didn’t run Israel out of the south, they left because they had a dovish PM and that was a huge mistake since hezbo took over those positions and continue to be a thorn in the Israelis side.

          • jjjj

            You actually know nothing. You may order the facts around your world view but that route leads to mental collapse. Christians and Jews are allies against the axis of Islamists that will destroy the world if given the chance. And there is nothing that anarcho-fascists, Neo-Nazis and their enablers can do about it.

        • Drakken

          The Phalangist are killing those rabid savage hezbo as they come back into the country from Syria and I say the more the merrier.

          • maxime1793

            Because you support Al-Qaeda in Syria?

            Because you love Radical Islam when compared to secular Arab nationalism?

          • Drakken

            I call it every time the savage muslims kill each other a plus for us infidels and I say grab a bourbon and a nice cigar and let them have at it and enjoy the show and keep the rest of them out of our western countries.

          • maxime1793

            Ah, right, all TEH MOOOSLIMZ are the same. Sunni, Shi’a, Wahhabi, secular, Salafi, Ibadi, Sufi, Alwaite, Druze – all the same. Assad is Bin Laden – I can’t tell the difference!

            Unfortunately, so are Arab Christians, they’re the same as Muslims, right? They’re not friendly enough to giving their land to Israel, so they deserve to die? RIGHT?

            Admit it.

          • Drakken

            The muzzys are the ones killing the arab Christians Sparky. and as far whatever stripe of savage muslim, let them kill each other till their little jihadist hearts content.

          • maxime1793

            Israel harbours Syrian islamist rebels in the Golan Heights. The world knows this stuff. Your propaganda is finished, buddy.

          • Drakken

            Ah sorry but Israel is eliminating the jihadist in the Golan, not harboring them. Where the heck you get that nonsense? Your imam been telling tall tales again?

          • Alice Louise Moore

            Uh…how do you know this? Have you been to the Golan Heights and knocked on every door, then asked, “Excuse me, but are you a Syrian Islamist Rebel?” Then getting the reply, “Yeah Lady; who wants to know?” Then everyone, Israelis and Jihadists, lets you go home and report your findings.

            If Monty Python were still around they’d make a skit out of this.

  • Martin Jennerson

    Good article – by the sounds of it GD are similar to our EDL, and yes their existence as a pressure group is fully justified/justifiable.

    • Drakken

      The EDL are fascist? Really? I can always count on leftist idiocy to get things wrong as usual.

      • Martin Jennerson

        I don’t think I am left-wing and they are similar groups with similar motives, I broadly support both as things currently stand

        • Drakken

          I fully support what the EDL is doing, I so do enjoy the fact it is giving the leftist/communist a complete meltdown.

          • maxime1793

            Well, seeing as how the EDL is ultra-Zionist and surely has their funding, I can see now why you have geopolitical problems.

            If you support national sovereignty, you cannot really be a big Israel-fan, as they are always seeking to undermine the sovereignty of everyone else. If you really hate Islam, it also makes no sense, since they are allied practically with the Wahhabi Saudis and al-Qaeda death squads used first and foremost against Arab Nationalists and Christians.

            If you have to make a choice between (1) NATO-Israel-Saudi-Al.Qaeda-Georgia-Muslim.Brotherhood-Lebanese Sunnis and (2) Russia-China-Syria-Iran-Venezuela-Nasserists-Hizbollah/Gen.Aoun, do choose wisely. It is not about capitalism-vs-communism or West-vs-Islam.

          • Drakken

            It is a very simple, western civilization, and Israel is very much a part of us, versus islam/leftist, end of story, period. The palis will sooner or later get what they so richly deserve, Carthage!

            The only problem I have is leftist/Quislings who openly side with those who wish our demise and think we deserve it, so your going to have to forgive me if things are coming to a very violent conclusion and I support western civilization over the islamist/communist. Chose wisely !

          • maxime1793

            No, Israel is not, Israel was founded by leftist atheist racialists. There was no Islamism then to speak of. Arab nationalism grew in response and NATO and Israel have sought to destroy it and PROMOTE Islamism. Get that, Israel promotes radical Islam and then turns around and points at it and says we have to support them no matter what or else these people are going to kill us. There would be no major radical political Islam if not chiefly for the UK, which put the Saudis in power, but also for the US and Israel.

            Israel helped create and bolster Hamas, which, as a wing of Muslim Brotherhood, is largely funded by Qatar now and was allied with Egypt’s MB. This was to counter Fatah/PLO, which is nationalist and secular. The Saudis back the anti-Hizbollah group in Lebanon. The Saudis, Qataris, and NATO back the Syrian Al-Qaeda rebels, but you are droning on about how you choose NATO over ‘the islamist/communist’ (sic). There is no Islamist-Communist alliance – there are few Communists of the old-style anyway, but if it is NATO behind the Islamists. On the flip side, it is the often Jewish neocons in Britain and America who DEMAND they have free trade and free immigration (sometimes with exceptions for Moooslimz) while advocating fascism and racism for Israel.

            But you want to side with the neocons? Even if you hate Islam, why side with its tacit allies? What’s wrong with Arab nationalism? What’s wrong with supporting the Christians in the region?

          • Drakken

            In case it has escaped your notice but the bloody muzzys are slaughtering the Christians, not the Israelis. Israel is a western ally period end of story, the muslims are not and never will be period, so glad I could help you out with that little semantic problem.

          • maxime1793

            But the Western countries are the force behind world terrorism. That is the whole point. Why would you want to be an ally of NATO?

            It is part of your propaganda shtick (I guess maybe you are Israeli, your English needs work) to paint all Muslims as the same but then avoid criticising Christians to maintain the illusion of alliance. It doesn’t work. We know what Arab Christians think of Israel and we know the West backs the groups killing Christians. It isn’t Saddam or Qadhaafi or Nasser or Assad or Ahmadinejad!

          • Drakken

            The west is being held hostage by the OIC and the threats of jihad, that is coming to end soon enough. I work in these Islamic cesspools and ole Assad with Russian backing is keeping NAYO at bay and letting the jihadist go to their virgins by the thousands, to them I say good riddance as well. The more these hadjis go jihad the better it is for us infidels.

            The Christians in the ME are being slaughtered by the muslims, not the Israelis.
            If we were smart, we would let the Russians arm up the Kurds to be a really nice pain in the azz for Turkey, Syria and especially Iran.

          • jjjj

            You post here with a pseudo-authority that tries to mask the fact that you are a propagandist for Islamism. One example will suffice: Arab Christians support the Jews in the Islamist-Jewish struggle. Just last week a prominent Christian called for Christian youth to join the IDF as loyal citizens of Israel.

            Israel represents progress and your Muslim mates are symbols of all that is backward in this world.

          • XVX

            Israel represents racism and zionist supremacism.

          • jjjj

            Don’t come on here and spout rubbish. Arab nationalism was part and parcel of the ME even before the foundation of Israel. You think that by spouting ‘neo con’ you are very clever. All you do is make generalised screeds.

            I support Israel because I recognise firstly that there are millions of Jews living there and who deserve their homeland. Secondly because neither the offspring of those who either murdered Jews or turned a blind eye can lecture the Jews on how to conduct themselves. The shameful antisemitic stain did not go away after 1945. It manifests itself today even on articles that are to do with Neo-Nazis in Greece, for crying out aloud.

          • XVX

            Greeks deserve their homeland too. GD is not neonazi. Israel is neonazi.

          • XVX

            Ιsrael is not part of the west. Ζionists support white genocide through mass non-white immigration

          • Drakken

            Israel is part of the west and very much so, and no matter what you have been told, they are not in some Zionist plot to rule the world, are not importing the 3rd worl into our western countries, the god*** left/regressive/commi are. So wake the f*** up and smell the jihad.

          • jjjj

            I’m calling you out on your BS. Prove that the EDL is financed by Zionists.

    • thm

      Yes mate. Same thing, only difference GD has 17 MPs -which tells a lot about the average greek voter-. Everything else (anger management problems, IQ, education, hairstyle etc, is exactly the same). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU

  • M. Wenzl

    Hmm.. “leftie old hags” + Golden Dawn “members tend to use rough language” — are you taking a leaf from their book? How did you feel when Ilias Kasidiaris said something similar to a SYRIZA MP, before hitting her? Was the outrage against the incident yet another example of PC?

    • M. Wenzl

      Also: “Less EU and more private enterprise”??? Have you been asleep for the past three years??

    • maxime1793

      Actually he threw water on a SYRIZA-ite but hit a Communist member.

      I think the PC-ism is more when the media ignore anarchists burning down XA offices or targeting other political targets or when it is said XA food donations must be shut down because they won’t give them out equally to foreigners.

      Sometimes I am in Greece as a foreigner and I would not think to demand to be treated equally in receiving a gift! Such reactions play into their hands.

      • M. Wenzl

        I’m not sure I agree. I go through the Greek media each day and although the GD receive a lot of attention, it’s not usually in reference to what they’re doing, rather to what they’re saying. The anarchists get more attention in terms of terror attacks and protests. Maybe that’s because militant anarchists instigate more of these attacks — I don’t know — but I do know that I have seen numerous videos where the GD can be seen to be attacking left-wing activists, and are often supported by the riot police.

        • maxime1793

          Please feel free to post some. I saw a video where XA a few years ago now raided an academic event deemed anti-Greek, otherwise I have not seen any videos where it is clear there is unidirectional aggression. I’d be curious to see the videos since I do not put it past blackshirted meatheads to attack left-wing activists but I also know anarchists and antifa rent-a-mobs attack right-wingers then turn on the cameras and post how “activists” were attacked….hmmm, reminds me of the Syrian situation.

          • M. Wenzl

            Yes, I doubt the aggression is unidirectional. I’m not claiming the anarchists are saints, just that GD/police violence is under reported. This probably won’t convince you but here’s one of the vids:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-lFcTyqf3zw

          • maxime1793

            That does not appear to refer to GD just police.

            It is an interesting description of Exarchia though (“vibrant”).

          • M. Wenzl
          • M. Wenzl
          • maxime1793

            Actually I was in Greece when that one happened. Yes, I guess that counts as aggression unprovoked but from what I recall, and what the video shows, they checked the documents of market vendors and vandalised their stands if they were undocumented (i.e., illegal). From what I recall, they did not beat anyone up, though feel free to post a source that shows this is mistaken.

          • thm
          • maxime1793

            That’s not a clear example. All I see is a couple XA guys joining the police (without riot gear protection) and throwing missiles at someone … but you cannot see their opponents. It is not clear they are legitimate “left-wing activists”. In any case, it would hardly be an example of thugs picking on people on the street.

          • thm

            Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is… The incident took place next to the Parliament, and it made it the news within hours of being filmed. Obviously, you do not watch the news!

        • XVX

          The greek media are corrupt and owned by mafia oligarchs who have very close connections with the mainstream political parties. Bobolas, a greek magnate who owns major newspapers and tv channels gets billions of euros in state contracts for his construction companies. Dont believe the media. They fear GD because GD will put them in jail.

  • djkm
    • maxime1793

      And he didn’t ever get into trouble did he?

  • thm

    My God, Taki is just a living proof that the majority of people of older age do not have much flexibility in the way they think and do get fixated on hard ideas.
    Now for someone who obviously grew up in a far right environment, in an era that Greece was in the turmoil/aftermath of a civil war, however, I think it is normal.

    As greekygreek said, and I have to agree with it, “populist stunts and scapegoating immigrants is the modus operandi of GD”. That wolf pack has been around for years and everybody was just ignoring it as their day-to-day propaganda would be on the supremacy of the white and Greek Nation and the virtues of Hitlers Generals (don’t believe me? Look it up!).
    Unfortunately the governments of PASOK and ND, and the stupid propaganda of SYRIZA, has been butter on their bread for the last 2-3 years.

    Taki fails to see that his beloved “good old-fashioned patriotic Greeks” do not just “need some lessons in social etiquette”. They are actually criminals -some of them convicted such as Kazakos and Androutsopoulos-, and their actions would normally not go down easily in a so called good-old fashioned western european democracy. Actions that are of course provoked by incompetent governments unable to address the basic needs of the people (security, healthcare, economic prosperity,border control).

    And it is indeed true that left parties have indeed played a major role in destabilizing the proper operation of the state for many years. But I am sorry… you cannot treat cancer with cancer!

    Taki, obviously and without hesitation, is identifying himself as an extremist, and unfortunately fails to see the future of Greece as a state that could resemble other european states in terms of political/financial stability and without the unnecessary noise from the far sides. He is a “fan” of an extremist political system, and as such he would die of boredom if this rivalry between lefties and righties ceased.

    Unfortunately -and understandably- no society has managed to prosper by excusing their evil/wrong/stupid/unethical/unecessary actions with a “You should see what the others are doing!”.
    And Greece will not be the exception.

    • maxime1793

      “They are actually criminals -some of them convicted such as Kazakos and Androutsopoulos-”

      —-Yes, this is the main problem I have with XA, this and its neopagan background,…I don’t really care about comparing yourselves to West European ‘democracy’ (which are mostly controlled political systems too), this is like a Third World complex. And I don’t know what is an ‘extremist’ political system, since most countries have a sharp power vertical and the Memorandum is also dictatorial (and foreign-imposed).

      Like I’ve said, why can’t sane, or at least just non-criminal, anti-Memorandum forces of Left and Right work together? Why are people so childish everything must descend into ‘you’re a commie’ or ‘you’re a Nazi’?

      • thm

        “Why are people so childish everything must descend into ‘you’re a commie’ or ‘you’re a Nazi'”
        –> Well, you are just saying the same thing exactly as I am saying. In Greece at the moment the noice comes from the two extremes. Moreover, it is Taki who seems to have clearly chosen a side in his article which IMO is wrong.

        “I don’t really care about comparing yourselves to West European
        ‘democracy’ (which are mostly controlled political systems too), this is like a Third World complex”
        –> Err… You are entitled to your opinion, but… is that that you understood? Please read the my sentence again. I am comparing an ill functioned “democratic” system with systems that function better and have the ability to provide better public services (such as a *more* fair legal system in this case).

        Regarding your Memorandum comment… it is irrelevant to the discussion but in a nutshell, I blaime both the Greeks (first) and the foreigners (second).

    • XVX

      Androutsopoulos is no longer a member of GD.

      • thm

        Yes? So? He commited the crime under the banner of GD which kept covering him for years…

  • thm

    Χέσε μας ρε Θεοδωρακόπουλε…

  • Peter Wertheim

    Golden Dawn is an overtly racist party of the old school. Their members’ thuggish, antisemitic behaviour has included vandalising synagogues and Jewish graves. The Spectator has erred fundamentally in publishing this apologia. Racism is wrong no matter where it comes from. In the past The Spectator has rightly pointed to examples of antisemitism on the far-Left and it is equally condemnable when it comes from the far Right.

    • thm

      Yes, but you would not expect an unbiased opinion from Taki now, would you?

    • XVX

      Golden dawn is not racist. It supports the preservation of the greek ethnic group in a greek sovereign nation state. All the people should have the right to preserve their distinct heritage, culture, identity, way of life. Τhe same applies to greek people and Golden dawn supports that principle.
      Golden dawn has never attacked jewish synagogues or cemeteries. Zionist supremacists and jewish extremists who control the media have started a smear campaign against golden dawn because their multicultural agenda is under threat by the nationalist movement in Greece. Ιsrael is a racist state and will deport all the sudanese refugees but the media never mention these facts.

  • Philsopinion

    ”The public sector is what sank the Greek economy.”

    Regardless of the inefficiences of the Greek public sector, this is simply not true – it was the collapse and subsequent bailout of Greece’s banks which started the crisis there.

    An investigation in the German media outlet Suddeutsche Zeitung found that ”out of the 207 billion euros ($276 billion) earmarked so far by
    international creditors, 160 billion euros ended up with Greek lenders
    and investors.”

    And who helped hide Greece’s debts before it was allowed to enter the Euro? Goldman Sachs, via an offshore structure.

    That Germany and France have allowed these lies to persist is only because it is THEIR banks which lent money hand over fist to a venal Greek elite and its banks. The cruxifiction of Greece is about saving Paris and Frankfurt bankers and the Greek elite.

    Is the author a bondholder in Spiro Latsis’ bank?

  • Albert

    The article proves that you can reach to more or less plausible explanations about Greece and the origins of her woes, even from a problematic POV. The modern greek tragedy is that the “leftie” self-righteousness and the fallacy of an economy pegged to the public sector, are not replaced by a newly-found sanity and sobriety. Instead, they’re replaced by an increasingly spiteful and uneducated crash between self-righteous right-wingers and leftists. It would be a necessary letting out of steam, if such hatred did not actually date back to the late 1940’s greek civil war.

    Meanwhile Greece is slowly imploding.

    • http://www.nrk.no/ Birger Skruddusvingen

      “The modern greek tragedy is that the “leftie” self-righteousness and the fallacy of an economy pegged to the public sector, are not replaced by a newly-found sanity and sobriety.”

      Not? Haven’t you heard about Golden Dawn?

  • http://www.rosiebell.co.uk/ KBPlayer

    About four or five years ago I was cheered at a meeting when I walked in accompanied by two young women, and I thought it was because of something I had written. Not at all, as it turned out. They cheered because I’m old and the two companions were young. Very politically incorrect, but very Greek, I’m afraid. Polly Toynbee, Maureen Dowd and other old hags would have been appalled. Too bad, young women enjoy older men with boats, especially during the hot summer months.

    I hope you were paying them well, wrinkly, I bet they hid your viagara.

    Perhaps the young women were cheered for taking their senile old grandfather for an outing.

    I wouldn’t normally be so vulgar and insulting, but if I said words like “sexist” or “misogynist” that would only arouse grins.

  • Quitollis

    GD are on 20% in the recent Gallop poll. Well done GD, you give inspiration to the whole of Europe that we should survive and reverse the immigrant flood.

  • Mack

    Real Fascists would dress better.

  • catlettuce redux

    Didn’t he fire a Nikon, not a Canon?

  • Guest

    Taki is full of self righteous bull shit, and sounds like an elitist that should be sent to Syria for target practice. I am not a ship owner like you, but I was fortunate to grow up in a privileged class, for a well respected Greek family. But, we are very patriotic and love Greece! We need more Greeks from ALL over the world, and from every class level to continue to love and care for Greece. As good caring Greeks, we should refrain from publicly criticizing what is wrong with Greece, but rather promote everything that is great about her past AND present. Let the XENI outsiders speak negatively about her.. Greece has enough enemies to publicly criticize her, the last thing she needs are phony Greeks like Taki to help decimate her? Was there corruption in both political parties? Yes, but please tell me about a country that DOESN’T HAVE corrupt politicians in every party? If you truly care about Greece, get off your silver spoon fed ass and do something to help, instead of doing the easy thing which is to join the international lynch mob and kick Greece while she’s down. Like most modern day ship owners, you’re flying the British flag on your ships, and lack any real patriotism for Greece… It is just a place for you to vacation during the Summers and occasional weekends… The senseless rambling above that you call an article, filled with your arrogance and self righteousness, only further proves just how much you AREN’T a TRUE Greek.. History is a circle as well all know, and one day Greece will be back on top again.. Greece achieved all of her glories throughout history from patriots, and elitists like you were known as useless armchair politicians…Alexander the Great was wealthy and privileged, but he cared about Greece and her legacy..So, instead of sitting around like a spoiled brat, he got off his ass and did something incredible and his name and legacy remembered for thousands of years. What can you do, Taki, that will help you to be remembered while here in this lifetime? Aside from showing off about your upbringing and your entitlement, and who you did or didn’t rub elbows with at Eton, what have you done that will make you a figure worthy of discussion now, or in the future? EXACTLY.. Nothing.. Because, you lack the capacity for greatness to do anything other than join the international lynch mob and attack the very people and country that brought your ancestors into wealth. If you have nothing good to say, nor the courage to stand up to your socialite friends and defend Greece in discussions, then go back to your inherited Silver Spoon and leave the defense to the REAL, GREEK Men of the world.. Poser.

  • Guest

    Taki is full of self righteous bull shit, and sounds like an elitist that should be sent to Syria for target practice. I am not a ship owner like you, but I was fortunate to grow up in a privileged and well respected Greek family. Unlike most entitled, spoiled aristocrats, we are very patriotic and love Greece and it’s people, regardless of class level or political affiliations! We need more Greeks from ALL over the world, and from every class level to continue to love and care for Greece. NOT superficial Greeks like you… The first and last person to unite ALL Greeks against the world was Alexander the Great, and sadly there have been few who have been able to continue his progress. As good caring Greeks, (if you’re even a good caring Greek to begin with) we should refrain from publicly criticizing what is wrong with Greece, but rather promote everything that is great about her past AND present. Let the XENI/outsiders speak negatively about her. Greece has enough enemies to publicly criticize her, the last thing she needs are phony Greeks, like you Taki, to help decimate her. Is there corruption in both of the major Greek political parties? Of course, but please name for me a country that DOESN’T HAVE corrupt politicians? Even with the embarrassment Germany has from Hitler’s 13 years in power, I don’t recall ONE German ever speaking out against Germany the way you do about Greece and any of her problems.. I have actually brought it up to several Germans, and do you know what their response is? After they turn red in embarrassment, they say few words about how it was a bad time, etc etc. LOL.. Now THAT is something worth pointing out and criticizing Germany for, is it not? You say “Leave it to the Turks to destroy the Parthenon”.. How about leave it to the Germans to destroy the lands of the cradle of Western Civilization during World War II? How about the billions of dollars stolen by Hitler from the National Bank of Greece, OR the BILLIONS of dollars in destruction caused unto the land by Hitler’s Armies??? That alone set Greece back YEARS in repairs that she had to pay for herself! By the way, had it not been for the Greeks having the courage to stand up to Mussolini and his feeble Italian army, and then the Germans, we’d all be speaking German now, even you and your English friends! Greece helped delay the German march towards Russia, allowing for winter to come quicker than usual, leading to Germany’s subsequent defeat! If you truly care about Greece, get off your silver spoon fed ass and do something to help, instead of doing the easy thing which is to join the international lynch mob and kick Greece while she’s down. Like most modern day ship owners, you’re flying the British flag on your ships, but lack any real patriotism… It is just a place for you to vacation during Summers and occasional weekends… The senseless rambling above that you call an article, filled with your arrogance and self righteousness, only further proves just how much you AREN’T a TRUE Greek.. History is a circle as we all know, and one day Greece will be back on top again.. Yes, maybe not in ours or even our great grandchildren’s lifetime, but one day she will. Greece achieved all of her glories throughout history from real, patriotic MEN, while elitists like you were known as useless armchair politicians that did little for the cause… Alexander the Great was wealthy and privileged, BUT he cared about the Greeks, Greece and her legacy..Instead of sitting around like a spoiled brat, he got off his ass and did something incredible, something that no other MAN or WOMAN, Greek or Non Greek, EVER achieved in history… and his name and legacy remembered for thousands of years. What can you do, Taki, where history will remember you now or even in the future? Aside from showing off about your upbringing and your entitlement, and who you did or didn’t rub elbows with at Eton, what have you done that will make you a figure worthy of discussion now, or anytime in the future? EXACTLY.. Nothing.. Because, you lack the capacity for greatness to do anything other than be a follower and join the international lynch mob in order to attack the very people and country that brought your ancestors into wealth. That same wealth that gave you the quality of life you enjoy today.. Sure, you can go on living your life in comfort and do nothing, but bash the motherland.. One day you will die, and go down in obscurity, a quickly forgotten man. Only money to leave to your heirs, who will most likely continue doing, and living the same forgettable existence as you led. If you have nothing good to say, nor the courage to stand up to your little socialite British and German friends and defend Greece in discussion, then go back to your inherited Silver Spoon and leave the defense to the REAL, GREEKS of the world.. Oh, and when the revolution comes, and THAT will be in our lifetime, please be sure to bravely tape to your door that useless article/essay in futility you authored up above. This way, when they all arrive with pitchforks, torches and guns, they’ll know who to burn at the stake first, Malaka!

  • Solon Zafiropoulos

    Taki is full of self righteous bull shit, and sounds like an elitist that should be sent to Syria for target practice. I am not a ship owner like you, but I was fortunate to grow up in a privileged and well respected Greek family. Unlike most entitled, spoiled aristocrats, we are very patriotic and love Greece and it’s people, regardless of class level or political affiliations! We need more Greeks from ALL over the world, and from every class level to continue to love and care for Greece. NOT superficial Greeks like you…

    The first and last person to unite ALL Greeks against the world was Alexander the Great, and sadly there have been few who have been able to continue his progress. As good caring Greeks, (if you’re even a good caring Greek to begin with) we should refrain from publicly criticizing what is wrong with Greece, but rather promote everything that is great about her past AND present. Let the XENI/outsiders speak negatively about her. Greece has enough enemies to publicly criticize her, the last thing she needs are phony Greeks, like you Taki, to help decimate her. Is there corruption in both of the major Greek political parties? Of course, but please name for me a country that DOESN’T HAVE corrupt politicians?

    Even with the embarrassment Germany has from Hitler’s 13 years in power, I don’t recall ONE German ever speaking out against Germany the way you do about Greece. I have actually brought it up to several Germans, and do you know what their response is? After they turn red in embarrassment, they say few words about how it was a bad time, etc etc. LOL.. Now THAT is something worth pointing out and criticizing Germany for, is it not? You say “Leave it to the Turks to destroy the Parthenon”.. How about leave it to the Germans to destroy the lands of the cradle of Western Civilization during World War II? How about the billions of dollars stolen by Hitler from the National Bank of Greece, OR the BILLIONS of dollars in destruction caused unto the land by Hitler’s Armies??? That alone set Greece back YEARS in repairs that she had to pay for herself! By the way, had it not been for the Greeks having the courage to stand up to Mussolini and his feeble Italian army, and then the Germans, we’d all be speaking German now, even you and your English friends! Greece helped delay the German march towards Russia, allowing for winter to come quicker than usual, leading to Germany’s subsequent defeat!

    If you truly care about Greece, get off your silver spoon fed ass and do something to help, instead of doing the easy thing which is to join the international lynch mob and kick Greece while she’s down. Like most modern day ship owners, you’re flying the British flag on your ships, but lack any real patriotism… It is just a place for you to vacation during Summers and occasional weekends… The senseless rambling above that you call an article, filled with your arrogance and self righteousness, only further proves just how much you AREN’T a TRUE Greek..

    History is a circle as we all know, and one day Greece will be back on top again.. Yes, maybe not in ours or even our great grandchildren’s lifetime, but one day she will. Greece achieved all of her glories throughout history from real, patriotic MEN, while elitists like you were known as useless armchair politicians that did little for the cause… Alexander the Great was wealthy and privileged, BUT he cared about the Greeks, Greece and her legacy..Instead of sitting around like a spoiled brat, he got off his ass and did something incredible, something that no other MAN or WOMAN, Greek or Non Greek, EVER achieved in history… and his name and legacy remembered for thousands of years.

    What can you do, Taki, where history will remember you now or even in the future? Aside from showing off about your upbringing and your entitlement, and who you did or didn’t rub elbows with at Eton, what have you done that will make you a figure worthy of discussion now, or anytime in the future? EXACTLY.. Nothing.. Because, you lack the capacity for greatness to do anything other than be a follower and join the international lynch mob in order to attack the very people and country that brought your ancestors into wealth. That same wealth that gave you the quality of life you enjoy today.. Sure, you can go on living your life in comfort and do nothing, but bash the motherland.. One day you will die, and go down in obscurity, a quickly forgotten man. Only money to leave to your heirs, who will most likely continue doing, and living the same forgettable existence as you led.

    If you have nothing good to say, nor the courage to stand up to your little socialite British and German friends and defend Greece in discussion, then go back to your inherited Silver Spoon and leave the defense to the REAL, GREEKS of the world.. Oh, and when the revolution comes, and THAT will be in our lifetime, please be sure to bravely tape to your door that useless article/essay in futility you authored up above. This way, when they all arrive with pitchforks, torches and guns, they’ll know who to burn at the stake first, Malaka!

  • CottonBlade

    Whoever knows Taki, knows that he is not self made, but rather a “daddy made”(his father made a fortune dealing with the Greek Dictators back in the day) rich guy who together with other Greek ship owners are bankrolling the GD neonazis, So they gain more power, and they crush the labor unions, specifically they ones in ship building, with mafia like violent methods. They dream of times that they would visit the slavish yards and factories, and the lowly paid workers/serfs would be kissing their hands when the “masters” throw them a few Euro coins. IS IT NOT THIS THE DREAM OF YOUR PAMPERED LIFE DEAR LYING TAKI .?

  • Demetri Roubanis

    RIGHT WING BLATHER…”Blah, blah, blah…free enterprise…blah, blah blah…corruption, blah blah, Greeks are lazy and communist…blah blah blah…

  • Demetri Roubanis

    Those evil state retirees. Yeah, make them all eat from the dumpsters, thats what they deserve those lazy government bloated bastards…right? I would like to see all of you RICH, fatcat bitches live on $480 Euros a month, or maybe on my dads “COMMUNIST” horrifically corupt pension of 505 Euros a month, with rent being 600 Euros. All of these right winger cunts that write all this crap about Greece without knowing jack shit, need to re-evaluate their morals, and start understanding that the outrage does not lie in the little guy, but the same banker bitches, and rich fucks that wanted all of this to happen, so they can buy privatized Greece for pennies on the dollar, and subjugate Greeks to being nothing more than fodder for their investments. So sick and tired of the bullshit

  • http://venitism.blogspot.com Basil Venitis

    Greece is an incivil nation with
    kangaroo justice, overcriminalization, brutal police, huge political
    corruption, and persecution of dissident bloggers. Graecokleptocrats suffer from the Xenogiannakopoulou Syndrome, using the kangaroo justice
    as a political tool to gag political opponents. The Xenogiannakopoulou Syndrome is psoriasis of democracy. Democracy becomes a marilizard kleptocracy.

  • http://venitism.blogspot.com Basil Venitis

    Your government is your #1
    enemy. Brutal police and kangaroo courts
    are tools to enslave you to your government.
    But badges and benches do not
    grant extra rights. It’s your duty as a citizen to become a
    popopaparazzo, recording police misconduct. Use your smartphone to unmask cops,
    kangaroos, marilizards, godzillas, and other bastards of kleptocracy. Keynote Speaker Basil Venitis, venitis@gmail.com, http://venitism.blogspot.com

  • http://venitism.blogspot.com Basil Venitis

    DOUBLE STANDARDS

    EU practices double standards on civil rights. It’s freakish for EU to interfere in the
    civil rights of foreigners, but condone the abuse of my civil rights, a citizen
    of EU! EU should get its own house in
    order before lecturing others. EU should rein in Greece, the most corrupt country of Europe with prisoners of conscience,
    testilying police, malevolent prosecutors, perjurers, and stupidest jurists.

    AN UNCONSCIONABLE SILENCE

    The political philosopher Edmund Burke
    once remarked that all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
    folks to do nothing. A glaring example is my persecution by the government of
    Greece, which grossly violates my civil rights.

    THEN
    THEY CAME FOR ME!

    Martin Niemöller said: First
    they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a
    Socialist. Then they came for the Trade
    Unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not
    speak out, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one
    left to speak for me!

    GOVERNMENT STOLE MY LIFE

    It’s been now four
    years since the Pasok government of Greece stole my life, my computer, and my
    files. Nobody cares, nobody gives a
    damn! I have done absolutely nothing,
    and I am being persecuted by the Greek government without any real reason. My ordeal is against all rules of civil
    society and treaties that Greece has signed.
    Greece,
    a country without a functioning justice system, has gone bananas. Graecokleptocrats suffer from the Xenogiannakopoulou Syndrome,
    using the kangaroo justice as a political tool to gag political opponents. Graecokleptocrats think the
    laws exist to give them whatever they want!

    STOLEN
    LIVES

    GEORGE ORWELL’S
    MINILUV AND MINITRUE

    MINISTRY OF PUBLIC
    DISORDER AND CITIZEN HARASSMENT

    MINILUV

    POLICE
    STEALING COMPUTERS!

    On October 18, 2010, a gang of six brutal cops of the violent Greek
    Cyber-Crime Unit (CCU), a real godzilla, supervised
    by a dishonest prosecutor, a disgusting liar, raided my home in Athens and stole my computer,
    software, files, documents, and personal data.

    HUMILIATED

    The policemen locked me in jail for a night, they
    humiliated me with handcuffs, fingerprints, mug shots, and lies, leaked false
    information to the media parrots, and the Greek government initiated sham
    ex-officio court proceedings for a stack of freakish trumped-up charges!

    URINATING IN A BOTTLE!

    There was neither pillow nor toilet
    facility in my jail cell. I had to urinate in a bottle! I, a 69-years-old man with high blood
    pressure, was not allowed to keep my hypertension pills with me. There was
    neither toilet paper nor soap in the whole CCU jail.

    MINISTRY OF
    INJUSTICE, OPACITY, AND HUMAN DEPRIVATIONS

    MINITRUE

    Greece, a
    country of infinite political corruption, perjury, injustice, and brutal
    police, must be revamped. Ex-officio
    law suit, αυτεπαγγελτος, the
    most dreadful word in justice, means the state sues somebody without
    involvement of the accuser. This
    terrible scheme has been used by the freakish Greek government to persecute me.

    MARILIZARD
    KLEPTOCRACY

    EX-OFFICIO
    TERROR

    Mariliza Xenogiannakopoulou, Alternate
    Minister of Foreign Affairs, sued me, and she wouldn’t show up in court,
    because the state took over her position!

    DISGUSTING KANGAROO JUSTICE

    PSORIASIS OF DEMOCRACY

    At the ex-officio law
    suit, the accuser just hits and runs!
    This hit-and-run justice is the most disgusting kangaroo justice on
    Earth. The accused must be in a position
    to face his accuser eyeball to eyeball. The right to confront and cross-examine
    one’s accuser is a sign of civility. The malicious accuser slings false
    accusations against you, the state takes over, the accuser disappears from the
    court, and the trial is postponed infinite times! This is penalty of the presumed innocent. This is penalty without trial. This is kangaroo justice of Third World
    countries! This is barbarity and
    brutality, pure and simple. Shame, shame, shame on Greece.

    SHAME ON GREECE

  • http://www.gmail.com JR

    What a terribly bad writer …

  • http://www.gmail.com JR

    BTW – I had thought that the Taki One had departed this world. Hasn’t done enough to get into Private Eye in ages …

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