Rod Liddle

Rod Liddle: What do you call travellers when they are no longer travelling? 

With hordes of them expected to settle in the UK soon, we'd better sort out what to call them

26 October 2013

26 October 2013

How should we describe the people who allegedly abducted that little girl in Greece, after a neighbour claimed that they actually paid £850 for her to a passing Bulgarian? It is a minefield we are entering now, having asked this question. Clearly the terms which hitherto some of us may have employed, not always affectionately — pikey, gyppo, tinker — are likely to get you into trouble with the police these days. Probably more trouble than if you, for example, dug up the road to remove a few hundred yards of fibre optic cable, or declined year upon year to pay your taxes. So those three are out.

Gypsy, we are told, is also a pejorative term, although the Travellers’ Times — an online site which you probably help to pay for somewhere down the line — uses the word happily enough. However, the delicious chocolate- and coconut-flavoured biscuits Gypsy Creams have long since disappeared from the shelves of our supermarkets, lest they in some way give offence. Then, of course, there is ‘traveller’, which seems to be the politically correct gentilic here — certainly this is what Vanessa Redgrave uses on the occasions when this immensely caring and committed actress spends a few hours away from Hampstead campaigning upon their behalf, to the irritation of swaths of rural ratepayers.

The problem then, though, is what to call them when they no longer wish to travel anywhere: you would surely not care to lump together a group of people under what amounts to a living denial. Our hospitals and education services have got around this with the thrillingly oxymoronic description ‘static travellers’, which at best suggests that these people — like Carlos Castaneda after swigging a few cups of peyote tea — travel only in their minds. Both Roma and Romani are imprecise and in any case gender-specific, even if it is politically preferred at the moment (these derogations change by the week, by the hour). We are left with Lom and Dom, which locates the people in Trans-caucasia, and therefore excludes the Irish travellers, static or otherwise, who keep us in the UK glued to our television screens with their flamboyant parties, bare-knuckle fights, remarkably high levels of illiteracy and occasional forays into what some might call the rather de trop economic enterprise of slave ownership.

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So Lom and Dom are not much good to us, and still less the preferred Romanian term, Tsingani, which the Loms and Doms reportedly heartily dislike. It still seems to me that ‘gyppo’ and ‘pikey’ are useful means of lumping them all together — but then one supposes that they would prefer not to be all lumped together, except when it is to make the case that they are similarly oppressed and persecuted by people like me.

I have spent some time on the question of nomenclature because, firstly, it seems to be open season on these people, whatever it is you want to call them. And secondly because from January, thousands upon thousands more of them will be arriving in the UK from Bulgaria and Romania, much to the absolute delight of the governments of Bulgaria and Romania. European Union work restrictions on these people expire on New Year’s Day and, despite unbiased and non-partisan BBC news reports that very few will actually come over here and those who do will be absolutely bloody lovely people, our own government is bracing itself for somewhere in the region of 50,000, not all of whom will be fully qualified neurosurgeons or Stakhanovite plasterers. The advance party of these hordes is still camped out somewhere near Park Lane in a sort of shanty-hamlet. Just wait, just wait. The French authorities recently evicted thousands from a campsite near Marseilles and the scene left behind brought to mind the sort of thing you might see in Rwanda or, at best, Manila. Whatever — it seems only right to me that as we prepare to welcome these valuable incomers (as the Romanian ambassador puts it, guffawing behind his hand) we should settle upon a name for them all, or we will be left only with confusion.

So, little Maria, aged four or five, nobody is very sure, but a ‘blonde’ and ‘blue-eyed’ (i.e. not Roma, or Romani, or static traveller) ‘angel’ was allegedly abducted by Hristov Salis and his fragrant partner Eleftheria Dimopoulou and used for begging. She was held by them at some ghastly campsite in northern Greece. During the raid on the site the Greek police discovered the usual haul of a gun, bullets, knives, stolen credit cards, cameras, laptop computers and of course drugs. The story is front-page news from Thessalonika to Dublin, partly, I suppose, because it is what people commonly think the travellers get up to; it invokes that Europe-wide nursery tale of the gypsies in the wood who will spirit you away. Well, occasionally it seems they will. The story has particular resonance in the UK because of the similarities between Maria and another abducted girl, Madeleine McCann — plus, of course, the arrests of several travellers on charges of slavery is still in our minds.

Not all travellers abduct little girls or enslave people, of course; but there is a profound antipathy towards them for other aspects of their behaviour all the way across Europe, especially in the centre of the continent and in the east. That is one reason why they will be flocking to the UK as soon as they are allowed — so we’d better sort out what it is we should call them.

An earlier version of this article said that the couple accused of abducting Maria had claimed they paid £850 for her. This claim was in fact made by a neighbour rather than the couple.


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Show comments
  • Roy

    Well, it has to be politically correct to be mentioned in the media. The options are therefore rather limited for a realistic tab to describe them. Whatever descriptive adjective is used it will not come close for a similar name one could call the politicians that are allowing such bizarre unthinkable actions to take place. As if the ordinary citizens of this country have no right to a say in the matter, of whom are forced to accept and to live with them. When you are forced to share limited space with strangers never before known to you, and defy description, it flies against all natural behavior to accommodate such people to your neighbourhood.

    • Aware

      That has been the case with all immigrants into the country and now they are accepted as part and parcel of the country. Those arguing against this new influx are really arguing against time.

      • Roy

        Never in the history of the these islands have there been such a large mixed mob of incoming characters differing in appearance, expecting to have the same rights as the ones already here.

        • Aware

          If people are legally allowed to reside in the country, are they not entitled to the same rights as everyone else?

          • Roy

            The point is; they should never be legally allowed to move
            to this country in the first place!! This should be the people’s decision in a referendum or known policy by incoming prime ministers. Not policy made behind closed doors without a smidgeon of reference to what the people want or need. It is the ordinary people who have to persevere and downgrade there own standard of living etc., to accommodate the gruesome unwanted that is moving in. Already between 2001 and 2011 ₤8 billion has been spent on housing 500,000 immigrants, while 1.8 million British families are on the waiting list. The new liberal left are determined they go their own sweet way with not a semblance of democratic decision making issuing from on high. They know best and to blazes with the rest of us.

          • Aware

            Why should people not be allowed to live in a country legally?

            Can not people from the UK move to another country legally?

            Is it not the case there are more people from this country living in other countries than vice versa?

            Should they be forced to return?

            Are they indeed the “unwanted” Some people, companies, communities welcome them.

            The whole point of voting for representatives is they are there to represent and if they feel allowing people to legally reside then they do so on behalf of the people they represent.

            Does the MP you voted for say agree to people being allowed to move and reside here?

            If yes then so do you by… proxy

          • Roy

            These people sponge on UK residents. UK emigrants to other countries are a real asset. These people are a net loss to this country and fight against its laws and institutions.

          • Aware

            Whom do you mean by these people.Liddle hasn’t made it entirely clear who is is orchestrating against.

            You guess UK emigrants are assets..are not a great number of expats retired?

            Can you show how the people you are considering are a net loss to the country and perhaps expand on how they fight against laws and institutions?

          • Roy

            You know exactly what I’m talking about, you just need to stretch out the topic to give credence to your impotent point. I’ve said all I’m going to say, I’m old enough and wise enough to know the facts of the case. The British people are being sold a dud and it’s diseased and rotten in at the bargain.

          • Aware

            But the Roma have been here since the 15th century…why is he complaining now?

            The name for them has been known for centuries..why does he feel, because the derogatory abusive names are now frowned upon and people have been convicted for using them, that there is a problem in what to call the people?

            They are Romani and have been known as that since the 15th century.

            It would seem Liddle is fishing for what new derogatory names can be used without censure or maybe conviction.

            Why do you think any POINTS I make are impotent?

            Because you don’t agree with them, although within them there is information you and others may not have had about the people in question.

            Old enough maybe..wise enough…?????

          • love thy neighbour

            you actually know nothing roy .

          • Roy

            I do know to put capitals to start a sentence and a persons name, so that has proved you wrong after spitting out five words. Your opinions can only start from reasonable communications, if you cannot do this then you are ill provided to carry on a dialogue never mind to criticise your fellow neighbour on the comments columns.

          • Aware

            Oh Roy! How petty…you try to get the edge with a point about grammar while ignoring more relevant points..tut tut..

            If a sign said “Warrning Quick Sande” would you ignore it because it wasn’t grammatically correct?

            How about you deal with my post, which seems to have passed muster with your attention to such detail..

          • Roy

            Remember dumbo, you had no point of relevance.

          • Aware

            Aw, you poor old soul…cant support or debate your contentions so instead avoid it all by little weedy post…Id say that make you clearly the “dumbo”

            Come back when you feel you have a leg to stand on..Gormie subla.

          • Nick Royles

            Have you been living in this country since 2001? If so then you would be fully aware that the left and the right leaning government’s that have been in power in this country have both signed up to European legislation regarding the movements of peoples. Stop claiming its a liberal left wing conspiracy when left wing and right wing parties are in general agreement across the whole of Europe.

  • Picquet

    I would suggest that any collective noun used in anger will be instantly denounced as ‘racist’, with shrieks and hoots from the usual Guardianista/BBC types. Make something up which sounds vaguely Eastern European and see how long it takes for some academic to detail their tortured and pitifully oppressed history.

  • crosscop

    I think Viz had a term that quite fits – TGBs.
    Our ancestors met invaders with axe, sword and spear. Today we can’t even call them names.

    • Abi Tayn

      Sorry for my innocence and youth – can you tell me what a TGB is? ‘Those Greek Bastards’?

    • Abi Tayn

      OK, got it thanks! ‘Thieving Gypsy Bastards’

    • Aware

      Do you actually think? Or do you just think you do.

  • kelly

    People like you are the reason why Romany and travelling people’s are no longer allowed to travell. You are not Romany and your no traveller therefore you actually have no clue or idea what it feels like to have been in the UK since the 1500 s might I add facing abuse being told you can’t live a way of life thats been in resistance since biblical times .All of the stopping places once open for people to be able to stop over before moving on have been closed down by government and ignorant people like you .many Romany and traveller folk have been forced of the roads by a system what hates them and then forces them into a system they don’t belong now if you choose to live that life thats your choice .we all have choice in this world do we not you choose to write this so why should travellers be treated different .please so us all a favor and use your intelligence for a cause worthwhile like poverty why are the British people be starved and told there no good if there sick or the many other things wrong in this world .people like you create a sickening decide and there is just no need for it it’s what causes wars. Go live with the Romany people and see how it is for your self .

    • Martin Walsh

      Really? Is this a wind up? The misspelling; the poor punctuation; the lack of capitalisation; the tortured grammar. Please tell me it is.

      • Martin Walsh

        Just to be clear. The reason I am asking the question is that the above contribution appears to play into the stereotype of the inarticulate/stupid gypsy. I’m wondering if it is a cynical ploy. If this is genuine then my apologies to the author.

        • kelly

          Well if you could read what was written Romany people’s have been in the UK since the 1500.s .

          • Baron

            You mean 3PM? But which day?

      • kelly

        Listen i will loose no sleep over your dirty attitude, Do not Presume to think or try and publicly brand me stupid .I have an education thanks

        In fact i have co founded and worked alongside two other directors to create community arts centre in varied places ,Nottingham,Liverpool,Leicestershire ,London ,Scotland .

        I have worked with many people from many backgrounds including higher classes .I am only correcting some statements that are very Incorrect .I have worked hard as do many Romany Business men and women ,In fact our people have Social workers ,Doctors Fire servicemen ,As well as Military and other public services .Many celebs hide there background in a public sense but remain just as proud of who they are and where they have come from.

        • Martin Walsh

          As I said in my post above, my apologies to you.

        • AndrewMelville

          It’s still a pity you never learned to spell or use grammar.

          Please note that since the 1500s, settled communities in Britain have wished that travellers and the crime and disorder which accompanies them would go elsewhere. Just because the ________ (fill in the blank), like to travel, is no reason why the rest of us have to put up with it.

          • kelly

            so people in the settled non gypsy community do not create crime then ?. As i said your taunts about Grammar make no odds to me just another little pathetic dig that Highlights how pathetic your Attitude is ..

          • AndrewMelville

            Your contempt for spelling and grammar reflects a contempt for your readers. It is similar to the contempt for settled communities that travellers show. It takes guts and hard work to build and maintain a community, or to plan and edit a piece of writing.

            Of course there is crime in settled communities, but at a much lower rate than among travellers. People, like most animals tend not to foul their own nest.

          • kelly

            I have nothing against any community many Romany do not either like i said ignorance and lack of knowledge creates Divide among all peoples and this is where strife is born .

          • AndrewMelville

            I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

          • kelly

            you are implying Romany are all illiterate and quite clearly they are not .

          • AndrewMelville

            I said no such thing. I was talking about you, and you alone.

            Why have you changed your name BTW?

          • guest

            Implied .

          • guest

            If you want to talk to me and ask me questions you are welcome to, please inbox me ask me questions about my people i will help you understand the myths the lies and the truth .

          • Aware

            Are you ‘attacking’ the poster because they have had a limited education OR are you attacking the poster because of their ethnicity…Do you even know?

          • AndrewMelville

            I am not “attacking” anyone. I am addressing his argument(s) with which I disagree.

            I think he is too lazy to edit his posts. He says he is educated and I believe him. I have no idea about his ethnicity – nor do I care.

          • Aware

            Can a look for a position as proof-reader for you?

            Might stop you twitching the curtains

          • AndrewMelville

            No thank you for your kind offer.

          • Aware

            You can now get curtains that twitch by remote control…

            Heres the ad

            “Tired standing up all day at the window?
            Runny eyes from staring at your neighbours bin?
            Local kids playing football as soon as you sit down?

            Well Suffer this No longer!

            Get the universal Twitchcurter and cut out all that leg work

            Twitchcurter has three speeds; mildly annoyed, very annoyed and fuming…chose to suit your mood

            But wait! We also throw in a stainless steel crossbow, never again let those pesky neighbours be a nuisance to you

            All for the remarkable price of £95.99 and a one year subscription to the Spectator

            *£95.99 is optional*
            *Crossbow is for entertainment purposes only*
            *Neighbours can be friends too* “

          • AndrewMelville

            I have no comment. But I hope you can get help.

          • Aware

            Not needed…Im sure they will sell themselves.

          • kelly

            Many people like to live in strife and they like to pick and dig at things because it makes them appear more inferior to others .Just because one person cannot spell does not mean they do not have a skill that is in equal balance .

          • AndrewMelville

            I think you are perfectly capable of writing properly. You just don’t care to take the trouble to do so.

          • kelly

            I am not sure it really matters as i was only making a point .

          • crosscop

            “Just because one person cannot spell does not mean they do not have a skill that is in equal balance .”
            Picking pockets?

          • Dave

            Easy to be offensive and racist sitting anonymously at your PC isn’t it crosscrap? If you feel so strongly then why don’t you go to you’re nearest traveller site and tell them what you think about them? I’m sure they’d be interested in hearing your views.

          • crosscop

            You have just shown that you believe that travellers would react with violence if they heard what I think about them. A bit prejudiced, don’t you think? Even racist!
            BTW – it’s ‘your nearest’ not ‘you’re nearest…’

          • Dave

            I didn’t say that did I crosscrap? That’s your prejudice assumptions rising to the surface again. I said I’m sure they’d be interested in what you had to say. And that’s what I meant. Most travelling people I’ve met have interesting and alternative views on the way the majority society regards them and the stereotypes attributed to them. Being the targets of ignorant and prejudiced stereotypes it is only natural that they would have an opinion on such things. And that’s what I mean. It’s a lack of first hand knowledge that breeds ignorance and means that people tend to over-rely on the media for their knowledge. So go and talk to some travellers and perhaps you’d understand that things are more complex in real life than the simple generalisations that you apply to a whole community.
            That’s what I meant I didn’t mention violence. Just try to think things through clearly free from the stereotypes and prejudices that you’ve clearly internalised.
            Thanks for pointing out my grammatical error and you should thank me for pointing out your own errors of the mind.

          • guest

            Thanks Dave my friend ,That is just what i was trying to put across .Knowledge is the key .
            Kushti.

          • Dave

            You’re welcome you said it well enough yourself it’s just they couldn’t argue with the points you made.

          • crosscop

            I do have “first hand knowledge” of dealing with travellers. Dog-fighting, cock-fighting, bare-knuckle-fighting, one murder, tar-mac rip-offs, assaults, thefts, drug dealing and one incest/rape. 30 years of first hand knowledge, in fact.

          • Dave

            If you really have 30 years of knowledge then I am surprised that you are still so blinkered and prejudiced. I too have a long (life long in fact) first hand knowledge of the travelling community and realise that there are indeed good and bad in all communities. As for the dog fighting, fighting, thefts, assaults etc that you list are these crimes really limited to the travelling community? These are crimes that you could find in any community or on any estate in the country. If I lived on any estate for 30 years I could also list all the crimes that you list occurring in my vicinity. Would that mean that those crimes were only committed by residents of that estate? No the crimes you list are crimes of the poor and powerless and are quite insignificant compared to the crimes of the rich and powerful who almost ruined the country with their financial shenanigans. Yours is a classic case of displacement crosscrap – kick those at the bottom of the pile because you yourself are too weak to kick the people at the top – the ones that are causing us all to hurt – Gypsy, gorger, black, white etc – open your eyes and see where the true divisions in society are and who your (not you’re!!) real enemies are. Don’t be suckered into all this divide and rule trickery and open your eyes.
            As for incest/ rape would we – from the examples of Saville etc – conclude that ALL celebrities are perverts or (indeed) all clergy because of the crimes of some? Come on if you want to argue/debate at least be consistent.

          • crosscop

            I somehow don’t think you’d find organised cock-fighting, dog-fighting or bare-knuckle fighting anywhere in normal British communities.

            My experience has taught me that all adult males on all the traveller camps in the area I worked in had CRO numbers. I have no doubt that the same applies elsewhere. They were all involved in thefts of one kind or another – plant, diesel, cars, caravans, lorries, scrap metal etc. and dodgy property repairs. Transit vans were a favourite target for theft. They also appeared to resort to violence at the drop of a hat and would lie even when there was no logical reason to lie.

            This is not prejudice. That is my experience of your people. It’s all I can go on. Yes, there are criminals of all sorts in every community – but the travelling community appears to exist (thrive, even) largely by criminality. I have come across some who were quite amiable and obviously intelligent – but even they were into all sorts of nefarious activities. Shipping in brand new cars from the Continent under false details and avoiding paying VAT was a real money-spinner. It probably still is. One VW dealer told me that “some gypsies” had offered him a brand new unregistered VW Golf for a thousand pounds less than he had to pay Volkswagen.

          • guest

            You really are giving me a laugh.I recall many coal mining community’s practising just the same and if not more bloodier ,football hooligans,drugs prostitution ,All these crimes are committed by people from all minorities ,but you choose to only draw attention to just Romany people .listen chap when someone comes along and turfs you out of your home cause you have had long term illness or a major life changing event happens and you can no longer afford to live or keep your home ,you are made homeless imagine what that feels like just being turfed out of something youv’e known and loved most of your life .Romany have had to face that 15 -20 times in a year because they are not allowed to live the life born to them .you were raised the way you were and that is all your used to ,how can you Judge something you have never lived or even learned to live with ? please do tell me Have you lived with the Romany people have you been a child frighten to death cause the police have come along to turf you out of your home ?.Further back in time have you had strangers come into your home knowing you are clean and well fed and there is plenty of food and clothing and be snatched away by social workers and police and thrown into a home just because your a Romany ?.where your life was a living misery and all you long for is the love and comfort of your home and your family and your mothers affection your siblings your relatives .these things happend all the time with no reason .When i was a kiddie i had very long dark hair my skin was lets say tanned ,i was sent to school as my parents believed it was best for me to adapt at first i settled in well i was happy .Until one day a mother of one of the other children saw me out on my great uncles scrap truck .i was only talking to him with my mother ,next day i went into school and the children started to ignore ,me day by day it became worse the children would call me a dirty pakki i was just 5 years old i had done no wrong to those children but because of who i was they picked on me they ripped clumps of my hair out spat at me kicked me even took my lunch ,All along i was to Frightend to stand up for my self until one day the stress of it all had made me loose so much weight i fainted at school my parents were called in and Accused of abusing me .I had to come clean i told them everything that the children had done i did have one nice friend who stood up for me but she was Italian girl .The school had no choice but to take action .i think to myself if i had not have found the courage to speak up i to would have been slung in a kids home .So please tell me sir have you ever been through that no .you see with eyes of a wolf im afraid black and white based on Falasey reported on by media paid to stir up trouble and you know what even black people had to stand up for them selves except even in the 60’s they were treated better than the Romany .What i see is the settled folk see Romany as having it easy It must be so easy to live the life of the Romany right ?.we all have to pay our taxes we all contribute to the system that hates us and mocks our culture and our history and most of all we appear free maybe we have the odd little bit of freedom I.e being close to nature but lets face it anyone can do that .I have no hatred for you i have no hatred for any man woman culture or creed but i value my history my people i cannot even begin to understand how the Romany coped in Nazi Germany i mean how would you feel if one of your kiddies were cut up and turned into a conjoined twins ?.or the many other inhumane things that have been done to a race of people .well i am proud of them for all they are and all they have faced .There is good and bad in all peoples open up your ignorant eyes for once and take a good long hard look all around you Mr the world is an ugly place filled with ugly people from all backgrounds
            Mind you there are some that consider there self inferior and whom like to argue just for the sake of arguing i waste not another word on those people feeding them good luck chap.

          • crosscop

            I’m glad I gave you a laugh. After all that, you’d need it.

            I was born and raised in a coal mining area and there was no organised cock-fighting, dog-fighting or bare-knuckle contests.

            “you see with eyes of a wolf im afraid black and white based on Falasey reported on by media.”
            No. I have based my views on what I have personal experience of. I do not doubt that there are exceptions to the rule – but in general, travellers mean problems for the rest of society.

          • guest

            Im laughing at you yes thank you very much.

          • Aware

            Your community must of been ever boring…is that why you found your way onto this sort of forum?

            If Traveller does indeed mean ” problems for the rest of society ” then society will deal with that, being big enough to do so.

            Diversity isn’t a problem for society…its more of a problem for some inadequate people within society..

          • crosscop

            So a community that does not indulge in cock-fighting, dog-fighting and bare knuckle fighting is boring, eh? From where the rest of us stand – a community which indulges in such cruel, violent, illegal “sports” is barbaric and primitive.

          • Aware

            Which is better or worse the ‘events’ you describe or wholesale anything goes fighting every weekend across the country,…no rules save who is the more dangerous when using a weapon or who has the bigger number of mates?

            Is not boxing very similar to bare knuckle boxing? But likely more damaging? While they wear gloves, they fight for much longer causing much more damage and of course are longer and better trained to inflict damage on an opponent.

            BTW although Im against such things, it should be recognised, the most civilised societies in the world did and still do take part in the events mentioned.

            You should know that whatever ‘crime’ you lay at the door of the Traveller can be laid at the door of the non-Traveller, to think or suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

          • Icebow

            ‘Must of been’ ??

          • Aware

            I agree.

          • MikeF

            “Diversity isn’t a problem for society”. Nor has it ever been, but it becomes one when the term instead denotes its precise opposite – a series of legally-sanctioned preferences deliberately constructed in pursuit of sectarian political advantage.

          • Aware

            C’est la vie

          • MikeF

            Not for me it isn’t and nor for an increasing number of people who recognise what the term really means.

          • Aware

            But the fact is…it is..what can they do about it but accept what life makes them endure.

            What can’t be cured must be endured

          • Aware

            You experience cannot have covered enough Travellers to say Traveller exist by criminality..that is stupid generalism for the sake of racial slur..

            Im sure the only ‘Traveller’ you have knowledge of is via BFGW.

          • Aware

            Is this you giving us the experience of your non-Traveller family..it could just as well be..couldn’t it!

          • Aware

            Oh dont be such a wimp…it was clear what Dave was saying..

          • Aware

            Such hate-mongers really dont have that sort of fortitude

          • crosscop

            I’ve been on more gypsy sites than I care to think about. Had cups of tea and chats and also have returned to my car to find the tyres let down. Been to some epic fights, too. I remember one little lad in tears because his cockerel was dying as a result of a cock-fight.

          • guest

            Ok i get it now do my other Romany folki get what is happening here ?.

          • Aware

            So you encourage criminality (cock fighting) and then complain about it…tut tut..do you then have the right to complain..

          • Aware

            Sad person.

          • crosscop

            Where? I’ll try to cheer him up.

          • Aware

            Aww…you precious little thing…doesn’t even know he is out of the loop..This country rejects racism…you are a minority..what it like to be a minority?

          • crosscop

            This country rejects TGBs.

          • Aware

            It rejects all TBs but seemingly not Politician TBs

          • Aware

            Oh dear..cant debate the issue so resorts to hyperbole..sad sad person

          • guest

            Are you talking about your past again crosscop ?

          • Dave

            Quite right Guest what the racists here don’t understand is the difference between education and schooling. They’re picking on your spelling because they can’t engage with your arguments. Insults are the weapons of the defeated. You beat all these dinlo gorgers so well done!

          • crosscop

            He’s beaten nobody and neither have you. Neither of you can refute the fact that the travellers way of life is based on crime.

          • Dave

            I’ve known lots of travellers and wouldn’t say crime reflects the ‘average’ traveller’s way of life. However neither can you prove this to be the case and rely on myths, stereotypes and prejudice.
            You keep trying to hide your own racism by implying it is me who is racist (e.g your previous comments). Dinlo gorger isn’t a racist comment at all – it means stupid non-gypsy – which is precisely what you are demonstrating yourself to be.

          • Aware

            In buckets.

          • crosscop

            So go on – tell us how they make a living. And how so many come to have criminal records as long as your arm.
            By the way – “Stupid non-gypsy” is obviously an insulting racist comment. “Kraut English” is also an insulting racist comment. I don’t try to hide my “racism,” either – I just pointed out yours.

          • Dave

            I’m not a spokesman for the travelling community and not denying that SOME (not all) may be involved in crime just like SOME people in any community you’d care to name. In my experience many make a living in construction, market trading, (carpet and flower selling seems to be a particular area as does car and horse dealing) or more likely a combination of these. A lot moved into haulage and related areas too.
            Stupid non-Gypsy may well be insulting – that is its intention because you are indeed stupid – but it isn’t racist unless ‘non Gypsy’ is considered a racist term which to the best of my knowledge it isn’t yet.

          • crosscop

            Please explain ( without racist outbursts) why it should be that all the adult male travellers on my old patch had criminal records. Not some – but all of them.
            And please tell me what benefit an influx of Roma will bring to this country.

          • Dave

            One explanation could be because they experience extremely high levels of surveillance and scrutiny by the police. If the police watched – let’s say – your average council estate or low income area as intensely as they do the travellers they could also find similar amounts of (generally low level) criminal activity going on. Also bias in the criminal justice system, Like black folk if travellers are caught doing something wrong they’re more likely to be charged than other sections of the population. Then once charged they’re more likely to be imprisoned than other sections of the community. So let’s not pretend that the police and criminal justice system is fair and objective.
            As for the influx of Roma I haven’t said they’ll bring any benefits and its doubtful that a bunch of poverty stricken poorly educated people could bring many benefits regardless of who they are. As I said earlier yours is a classic case of displacement. Instead of directing your anger at a small group of travellers, gypsies, roma or whoever direct your anger at the politicians who are allowing them all into the country. If you don’t like what’s happening then use the ballot box to change things.
            Lastly while you criticise me for using the term ‘gorger’ and another for saying ‘Kraut English’ (never heard that one before) you say nothing to the poster saying ‘thieving gypsy bastards’ which by anybody’s standards is surely more offensive? As I said earlier at least be consistent.

          • Aware

            That might have more of an impact if you were to state how many people you are talking about. 1-5-10..’all’ can mean as many as 1

          • crosscop

            I’d say at least 200.

          • Aware

            Out of 460,000..

          • crosscop

            Now you’re telling me there are 460,000 adult male travellers on the half dozen sites on my old stamping ground? Wow, where did they all come from – and however did they fit all their caravans in?

          • Aware

            I think that says all that needs to be said about you.

          • Aware

            Travellers make a living like anyone else..There are Traveller footballers, actors, singers, priests, vicars, nurses, doctors etc etc etc

            How do so many non-Travellers have such criminal records as well?

            Were not all of the most heinous crimes committed in the history of this country committed by non-Travellers?

          • Revengeofthetravellers

            Nurses, care assistants, building, roofing, journalism, trainee solicitor, receptionist, project manager, accountant, professional singer, cleaner, toll booth operator in council tip, transport, lorry driving, road work, teaching assistant, teacher, academic, market trader, fun fair palm reader, professional dance group manager, senior civil servant, blacksmith, football coach. Office admin. Blacksmith……
            Go on. Admit it. Acceptance is the key. Embrace recovery and your life will take on new meaning. Say it: “My name is crosscop and I am a racist.”

          • Aware

            Have you any evidence of what you state? Any stats that haven’t come off a an extreme right-wing forum?

          • Aware

            They are also ignorant to the nicety of lack of education and natural intelligence…there may be many uneducated ‘Travellers’ around, as circumstance dictates, but not many stupid ones.

          • kelly
          • AndrewMelville

            …so? There are lots of famous and talented Gypsies. I have never doubted that for one second.

          • Aware

            Oh how the back peddling begins…you are archetypical of the problem of communities existing in peace alongside each other.

          • AndrewMelville

            What back peddling? “Guest” as he now calls himself posted, without comment a list of famous gypsies. Why – he does not say. I assume it is because he blindly assumed that there were none. That would be a silly assumption, and one that I never made, as I said.

            Is there a point you are trying to make?

          • Aware

            Your a clever man or so you would have us believe…take everything into consideration and then see if you can identify a point…If you can..well done you, have a carrot, if you cant…not as clever as you think are you Andy.

          • AndrewMelville

            I’ve never made any claims to my cleverness or lack thereof.

            Thanks for the invitation, but I don’t intend to do your work for you. If you have a point to make, please make it.

          • Aware

            You are a bit like Mr Liddle never quite says what he means..

          • AndrewMelville

            You are too kind, but Mr. Liddle is a much better writer than me. He is very clear and precise in his language. I hope I occasionally hit that mark too.

          • Dave

            Andrew – please read my comments above. Your subsequent comments prove the points I make above. Does ‘Guest’ have a contempt for spelling and how do spelling/grammatical mistakes imply a contempt for the readers. I fail to see the causal link here so perhaps you could explain yourself in more detail other than making spurious, ignorant and unfounded claims. Also where is the evidence that crime is lower in ‘the settled community’ – that’s certainly not what the ACPO (that’s Association of Chief Police Officers in case you don’t know). Travellers ARE more likely to receive custodial sentences but this is more likely a reflection of bias in the CJS (that’s criminal justice system in case you don’t know) just like more black people are locked up. Racism is racism however you try to dress it up and you’re an ignorant nasty racist using unfounded prejudices to single out a marginalised group of people as scapegoats. Just because you can spell doesn’t mean your better than anyone else. I’m much smarter than you but can defeat you with the power of my argument not by making childish comments about your writing ability. Oh and by the way I’m a gypsy too moosh..

          • Aware

            Kushty Bok

          • AndrewMelville

            Dave, I’ve read your comment above. So what? ACPO is a self serving political organization. Frankly I don’t believe them on this or on many other of their pronouncements.

            Perhaps you are much smarter than me but your sarcastic tone, laborious writing and sketchy logic disguise it well.

            How vile and how typical of you to accuse others of racism? On what grounds? None of course. I am not racist. My contempt for folks who drift from one place to another, never building or growing anything is a judgement about society not about race.

            If I were to indulge myself in the same sarcasm that you permit yourself, I might say: perhaps with your intelligence you might consider that.

          • Aware

            Do people have to confirm to your narrow view on what society is/should be to find favour with you?

            The way the world should be according to Andy Melville.

          • AndrewMelville

            Not at all. I relish diversity. My own life and family is an example of it. How did you ever arrive at the belief (other than by your own prejudice) that I expect others to share my view?

          • Aware

            The old…” I have a black mate”

          • AndrewMelville

            Nope. Just not “narrow” in my views as you so rashly and rudely assumed. Your prejudice is showing.

          • Dave

            I partly agree about ACPO but calling me sarcastic is a little hypocritical after your constant sarcasm at guest’s postings. You were unable to debate the points he/she was making so just picked on their spelling. You were also unable to make any intelligent response to any of the points I made and for your information I don’t consider myself to be particularly intelligent. Just a lot more intelligent than you clearly.

          • Aware

            Tell it as it is brother!

          • AndrewMelville

            Sigh. Not true. And in your case, you only made one point, which you now concede was wrong (at least partly).

          • Dave

            I made several points none of which either you or crosscrap have been able to respond to. As for the ACPO I agree with yours and crosscrap’s points but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong about the extent of crime in the travelling community compared to the majority community. I’m sure there’s stats somewhere that could reveal the facts.
            That’s beside the point anyway what really irritates me is that ignorant bigots like you think you can condemn a whole community and way of life because of the actions of a minority in a way you wouldn’t dream of doing with any other group. I’ve spent a lot of my life in south London where – because there is a large population of black folk without much money – there is a lot of crime (or certain types of crime) being committed by them. I don’t hear people condemning the entire black population because of the crimes of a few, or condemning the whole islamic community because one or two nutcases. So why is it acceptable to tar all travellers with the same brush because of the crimes of a few?
            And tell me what experience do you have of travellers to make these sweeping generalisations anyway? Because you watched MBFGW? Or watched the Dale Farm eviction on TV? Or drove past a site once? Oh you probably read it in the Daily Nazi – sorry I meant the Daily Mail – because they always report the facts don’t they? You know little apart from what you’re fed by the media which is clear from your views.

          • AndrewMelville

            Well you’re wrong – again. I have no problem deploring the excessively high crime rate among Jamaican immigrants in my community for example. Or the high rate of uncivilized women hating behaviour among Muslims. Or the high rate of anti social behaviour among people who don’t live in settled communities. In all these examples, most folks are fine but the rate of awfulness is still too high.

            Stop calling nasty unfounded names. And get a job and have a good wash.

          • Nick Royles

            What about the high amount of white collar crime, insider trading, middle class grant seekers, MP fraud, upper class tax avoiding, etc etc etc. Which causes a higher financial loss to the GDP of the UK? Hmmm.

          • AndrewMelville

            All crime is deplorable and should be prosecuted. In all classes and groups crime is committed by only a small minority. Keep in mind that the vast majority of the groups you mention are honest, hard working and productive members of society. I’m not sure the same can be said about travellers.

            The one exception I would make to the above is tax avoidance. Britain seems to me to be quite insane on this subject. Tax avoidance is not a crime. It is not even morally reprehensible. It is a duty for every tax payer. No one should wish to pay more tax than the law requires – the government sector is always more wasteful than private companies and individuals. If the government doesn’t like a tax avoidance strategy then it should change the law. I much prefer to see money in your pocket or mine than in theirs.

          • Nick Royles

            Good grief man. You should be sure of something if you are going to say it. Oh well, say it enough times and it’ll become a ‘truth’. Go and read what the nazis had to say about the Romany and Sinti Gypsies in Germany and then look at what you have just written in your first paragraph. That’s what they said about the Jews and the Gypsies to justify their extermination programmes. Well done.

            I’m sure you have a massive amount of data and statistics that back up your last two sentences in that first paragraph. How many more times do other Travellers and Romany have to say that many are self employed. There is a huge entrepreneurial spirit amongst the travellers. Please do search this Spectator website for the article by Katharine Quarmby 24 Aug 2013 ‘Meet the Gypsy Entrepreneurs’.

            Claiming state benefits is totally frowned upon in the travelling. It’s not respected and for you to claim that our people are not productive beggars belief. Romanies are some of the hardest working people out there.

            To claim that we are not honest is laughable. Irrational. What other stereotypes have you got in your head. You’ll be saying we steal children next. Put that Enid Blyton book down and step into the modern age.

            And for the record travellers avoid paying taxes just like anyone else. Many people avoid paying more than they have to as you have implied.

          • AndrewMelville

            You must be reading someone else. Nothing I said aligns with nonsense you have replied and attempted to smear me with.

            You were the one to condemned tax avoidance not me. If travellers avoid tax too; good for them. That is a wise and rationale decision.

          • Aware

            So while you advise us to keep in mind only a small minority of any group commits crime BUT when it comes to Travellers that advice is to be ignored! LOL..for real?

            The tax avoidance laid at the door of Travellers is one of those myth things..

            The HMRC cold call at Caravan parks all over the country, checking people are paying what they should…would you be in favour of that being rolled out across the country for non-Travellers?

            Whole streets raided and papers demanded to be produced.

            This is what Travellers endure. One reason why they have accountants.

          • AndrewMelville

            Try reading what I wrote rather than what is running through your heid.

          • Aware

            How on earth do you know Travellers are not productive or hard working.? Because the Sun/Daily mail/ Express etc says so?

          • AndrewMelville

            Because I have seen so many of them begging. And they were filthy and extremely smelly too.

          • Aware

            So many? How many is “so many”

          • AndrewMelville

            Perhaps I wasn’t clear: their smell was of filth, sweat and urine. Unfit to mix with other humans quite frankly.

          • Aware

            You feel humans that might have body odor thats not covered up…or have no or little access to water or washing facilities are unfit to mix with other human beings?

            I think melly old loon, that id rather be mixing with someone like that than the nicest smelling individual with thoughts and preferences like yours…are you not the real odious human?

            Could Nick be on the right path?

          • AndrewMelville

            You’re welcome to mix with such filthy folk.

            I’d happily mix with them if they stopped begging and started washing. I feel no obligation to connect with them otherwise, and wish the authorities would move them along, or into a bath.

          • Aware

            Even a rose is bedded in manue Melly.

            Don’t be an old stink in the mud…get out meet the people..who knows you may enjoy yourself.

          • AndrewMelville

            Manure works well for plants; not so well for humans. Which is why the Japs and Indians would catch a whiff of soap of me. Entirely up to them whether they like it or not.

          • Aware

            Indeed, carbolic soap has a very powerful odor..even so Im sure they wouldn’t be as boorish as some to make mention of the pong.

          • AndrewMelville

            Perhaps you think it cultural differences that leads one to prefer the smell of carbolic soap to the stink of sweat, filth and urine? If so, that’s more proof that some cultures are superior to others.

          • Aware

            But wouldn’t that prove just how wrong those ‘superior cultures’ were, for thinking they are superior to a completely different culture?

            Is an apple superior to an orange?

            A pair of shoes to a pair of boots

            We are all superior and inferior in our own ways within our own cultures..

            To try measure that against another culture doesn’t work..get the gist?

          • AndrewMelville

            You’re truly insane if you think those are parallels.

          • Aware

            Explain why they are not?

            Ill explain why they are..no charge!

            An apple and and orange are a fruit…but they are a different fruit within the fruit specie..being different how can they then be measured for superiority against each other?

            They can only be measured for that among their own kind ie orange against orange

            Its the same with different cultures

            Can the yodeling of the Swiss be said to be superior to Mongolian throat singing?

            Melly…old fruit…are you picking, in the way of information, anything from my posts..or is what i saying skiing off your skull.

          • Nick Royles

            Dishonest, work shy, unproductive members of society – that’s what the Nazis said about Jews and Gypsies in the 3rd Reich. Well done.

          • AndrewMelville

            Now you are being truly offensive as well as inaccurate. Your post is vile.

          • Nick Royles

            Vile? Inaccurate? Not in the slightest. It’s you that made the vacuous comments that lead to your ‘logical’ end result of Gypsies being parasitical, vampiric, uncultured, unproductive, asocial, etc etc.

            Your argument :-

            Majority of gorgers – honest, hard working and productive.

            Majority of Gypsies – dishonest, work shy, unproductive.

            Now go and read some of the decrees released by the nazi parties local and state authorities from 1937 onwards. Work shy (which you imply) is a well used term in relation to combatting the ‘Gypsy menace’ in Germany.

            Not that your comments are based on facts. You must have waded through some hefty research material to come to that startling viewpoint. A view that it is groundless as being work shy is frowned upon in the Gypsy community. Claiming benefits is certainly not seen in a good light. Being self employed and running your own business is pursued through a lot of hard work. A strong entrepreneurial spirit runs through many travellers. Standing on your own feet. The total opposite of what you are arguing.

            Even the Spectator ran an article on Gypsy Entrepreneurs –

            http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9000111/meet-the-gypsy-entrepreneurs/

          • Aware

            In that link given you will see ‘cross cop’ parroting the very same initial post he croaked on here..right down to the full stops.

            He save it for any article on Travellers the gormie subler

          • AndrewMelville

            You are beneath contempt.

          • Aware

            But Melly this seems to be your character and ideology by your very own posts!

            Perhaps you are just not very good at putting yourself over?

          • AndrewMelville

            Boring.

          • Aware

            Now I didn’t like to say it, but now you have owned up…well done you.

            If you know your weaknesses you can’t help but know your strengths

          • Nick Royles

            Wonderful. A well argued retort. Not what I would have expected from a Frenchman. Kek adrey tute shero.

          • AndrewMelville

            One doesn’t touch a tar baby, as Brer Rabbit taught us. One can’t reason with people who make filthy baseless remarks, whose only purpose is to shock and offend.

          • Nick Royles

            ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

          • Aware

            But Melly not all your posts contain such…

          • crosscop

            Ever heard the term “Whataboutery”? We were discussing travellers.

          • Aware

            Discussing or abusing?

          • Nick Royles

            Glad you concept of a discussion is coming up with names like ‘TGB’. Go to the top of the class. What do you call a cross cop? Hindity Baulo.

          • Aware

            One forced to conform to the laws of the land?

          • Aware

            Oh dear…a grammar warrior..

          • AndrewMelville

            Yawn. Wrong and irrelevant.

          • Aware

            Have a nice cup of coco and get yourself into bed..poor dear.

          • AndrewMelville

            I think you meant cocoa.

          • Aware

            No I meant coco.

          • AndrewMelville

            How odd!

          • Aware

            Dont you mean ood?

          • AndrewMelville

            Only if you look like an octopus in a nightgown with a lightbulb in the palm of your hand.

          • Aware

            Your taste in women is…surprising. other than all I can do is repeat you.. Burpppp “But I hope you can get help”

          • AndrewMelville

            Well I’ll end this delightful conversation. Let’s all hope they keep travellers and other EU monsters out. And let’s hope the travellers get the finger out and stop leaving their campsites like public tips and latrines.

          • Aware

            I think the world might think “lets hope some of those UK monsters stay where they are”

            Europe still does when it comes to Enger-land fans hitting their towns and cities.

            More transit sites in place would solve that..but each nimby council leaves it to the other to provide..

            Go on the road for a week in a Caravan and see how you cope.

          • AndrewMelville

            When I go camping I keep the sites spotless – ideally better than I found them. I don’t expect communities to provide places for me – why should they.

            Try living in a community that has been fouled by a mob of travellers. Vide the Appleby Horse Fair (Horse Foul would be a better description). And see how you like it.

          • Aware

            Camping on the side of the road, on a tip, on an industrial estate is not the same as camping in a site.

            If people are not allowed to provide for themselves then they must be provided for! If not, what are they to do?

            How on earth can a community be fouled by Travellers..the place you make mention of has been used for the fair since the 1600s..anyone moving there after that have little right to complain..they knew the fair was there before they bought into the place.

            On top of that, the resident traders live off the money they get from the fair.

          • AndrewMelville

            Where do you think I camp? That’s right: at proper sites! Good grief – stop making things up and ascribing them to me.

            There is nothing wrong with the idea of the fair. It’s longevity makes it even more appealing. What is disgusting is the utter filth and foulness left behind by the travellers who went there. Have you not seen the pictures? Consider research before judgement.

          • Aware

            So I was right, you do camp on “proper sites’ so how on earth am I making things up?

            I have attended the fair many times and Im aware that oft there is not enough bins for all the rubbish to go into…its a horse fair for goodness sake. Would you have the horses wearing nappy’s?

            Bit like a hot saturday at the beach..tonnes of rubbish left over because the bins are full. You dont deal with the point that the cities at the weekend are awash with litter..is that because its non-Traveller litter?

            Now as for camping on the roadside…perhaps you could follow your own advice and research it by doing it and see how you fare.

            Consider experiencing first before you make judgement.

          • AndrewMelville

            Decent people pick up after themselves – and their horses for that matter. I even teach my children that. One might have thought the practice would have occurred to the fair organizers and attenders after hundreds of years!

          • Aware

            Are you suggesting that all the people who litter the cities every weekend are not decent people..family members included?

            And those on the beaches who find they cannot take their rubbish with them or find places to put it so leave it where it is are not decent?

            Are you suggesting there are no places to dispose of rubbish at the fairs?

          • AndrewMelville

            I am suggesting nay stating that people who litter, piss and defecate all over the place are foul people – no matter who or where they are.

          • Aware

            You old stinker! Bit more of the backtracking there Melly

          • AndrewMelville

            Not all. I’m completely consistent. Unfortunately one sees many Gypsies a d Jakies filthy and reeking in our cities. It’s easy to avoid touching them. Impossible not to hear their begging. Ill advised not to watch them closely. And most unfortunately difficult to avoid smelling them.

          • Aware

            But but but…Melly ole fellow me lad…the city has many non-Roma stinkers traipsing about it, befugling the air with their habitual odors!

            Even the houses of parliament have their pongers..can you imagine what Eric Pickles smells like after loping down a corridor to vote for another diabolical law to lay on the Traveller?

            Like a barrel of cheap, week old fish, on a thursday in a Catholic retreat.

            Perhaps you need a scented hankies a la Dandy for your refined hooter? A perfumed wig and a little slap and you could be an extra on ‘Blackadder tours the Bastille’

            The thing to do Melly old horse, is not to be too concerned with others and their lives..you live, you breathe, you smell, be happy…sing a little and for goodness sake SMILE.

          • AndrewMelville

            That’s what I said.

          • Aware

            Well you are a conniving little devil..hiding what you meant in posts that said the opposite..

          • AndrewMelville

            Learn to read: “Gypsies a(n)d Jakies” That is two different sorts of people.

          • Aware

            Will you teach me to read Melly old gatepost?

            I’v been posting on here just by hitting the keys and I’v no idea what Im writing…not being able to read.

            I’v no idea what ‘Jakies” are…is it something from Star Trek?

            You are not one of them are you Melly…a Klingon, walking around in a brown and black bespoke boiler suit. with painted brown orange peel stuck to your forehead..speaking guttural gibberish like an old milch cow coughing?

            The original series can’t be beat, I don’t care what you say..

            BTW Did you know one episode from the original series was actually based on Pavees (Irish Travellers) I kid you not..

          • Aware

            Your post is rather confusing!

            Are you suggesting, that in your opinion, because the ‘settled’ community commits more crime against itself (fouls its own nest) that this is somehow a noble thing?

          • AndrewMelville

            No.

          • Aware

            Well you seem to suggest that..

          • Aware

            There is more crime committed in the UK by non-Travellers than Travellers and every crime laid at the door of a Traveller can be laid at the door of a non-Traveller.

          • Dave

            Andrew – the crime and disorder caused by travellers pales into insignificance by the crime and disorder caused by other (albeit much larger) minority groups – e.g urban riots, drug dealing, guns, terrorism, grooming of teenage girls, religious fundamentalism, oppression of women etc etc. I bet you wouldn’t dare speak of any other group in a similar fashion as the way you talk about gypsies etc. This highlights the contradiction in fake PC types – everyone needs a group on which to hang their irrational and unfounded prejudices. Know thyself!

          • AndrewMelville

            Oh how well you don’t know me.

            Don’t play one thing off against another. All of those groups are blights on society, but we are talking about travellers, I believe. Would you refuse to give a man’s request for an aspirin for his headache, on the grounds that you would rather discuss his prostate cancer?

          • Aware

            Andrew, you will of course be aware the higher up the human food chain you go, those above think those below are “blights on society”

            What you consider you are also considered..

            Do ignorant Travellers have to educate you in the ways of the world?

          • AndrewMelville

            You said “urban riots, drug dealing, guns, terrorism, grooming of teenage girls, religious fundamentalism, oppression of women etc etc.” – are you seriously suggesting that you believe that any of these are not blights?

            Good grief, man, give yourself a shake.

          • Aware

            Andrew, Andy, may I call you Melly?

            I didn’t post what you claim.

            But I would say what you posted are indeed blights…on mankind.. and are specific to mankind as a whole.

            You see Melly old horse, We are all related by specie.

          • AndrewMelville

            Really: I cut and pasted from your post. That’s why I used quotation marks. Perhaps you recognize that your words are nonsense when you see them in a new place?

            You may not call me Melly. Why would you wish to do so?

          • Aware

            Hmm, No old stick…It was Dave who posted that, not withstanding your quotation marks, you are incorrect.

            Melly just seems more friendly than Andrew..

        • crosscop

          “In fact our people have Social workers ,Doctors Fire servicemen ,As well as Military and other public services .”

          I’m sure you do at least have Social Workers.

          • kelly

            Romany people themselves dear are social workers even members of parliament ..

        • Rocksy

          I knew it! you’re the guy who founded Mensa. Right? You’re the man in the picture.

    • crosscop

      ” you actually have no clue or idea what it feels like to have been in the UK since the 1500 s”
      Please tell us the secret of your longevity. Are you a vampire?

      • kelly

        please view this and tell me its ok humanely Not only were jew’s slaughtered by Hitler and his regime but so to were the Romany and anyone who was different

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSfFJQgrLdk

        • crosscop

          Yes, but are you a vampire?

          • kelly

            WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME THIS ?

          • guest

            yes Dracula decent lol lol lol lol lol oh dear what silly thing to ask .

          • Dave

            crosscop you really are moronic. You’re unable to engage with ‘Guest’ on the valid points he/she raises so persist in your immature and unfunny sniping. Grow up you retard.

          • Aware

            Back to class, playtime has finished.

  • kelly

    Deleted my comments why ?

    • crosscop

      “Britains ancestry are not british at all”
      Has anyone ever seen anything as stupid as this?

      • Aware

        Most of your posts?

  • Marcus

    Rod:
    Is this a racist organisation or a correctly named nice one?

    http://www.nationalgypsytravellerfederation.org/index.html

    • Aware

      Why depend on Rods opinion..whats yours?

  • Rodney G James

    Well, in this country judging by the accents, Irish Tinkers seems appropiate, altho’ I always liked the term used in my youth of didicoys, both terms can be used whether they are travelling or resting on someone’s land.
    I look forward to the bien-pesant luninaries of the BBC welcoming the Romanian/ Bulgarian branch next year. Presumably, Marr, Humphries and co are already allocating space for Romany tents and caravans on their lawns.
    The most perplexing question is why a government dedicated to the free market has not split up and privatised the BBC now it has abandoned any pretence of sticking to its charter and instead revels in its role as the herald of the liberal politically correct metro chattering classes. The Monopolies Commission(does it still exist?) needs to get on the job.

    • Aware

      ‘Tinker’ is a derogatory term to refer to Pavee’s aka irish Travellers

      Would referring to a community of people as ‘Bakers’ be correct because a small number of the people in the community worked a such?

      • chan chan

        They’re tinkers, not travellers.

        • Aware

          Can you explain how you have come to that conclusion?

          • chan chan

            If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

          • Aware

            So you feel all Travellers have the occupation of tinkering? Because ducks walk like ducks and quack like them to?

            Wow, way to come to a conclusion.

        • Angus_MacLellan

          AKA “Tinks”.

          • Aware

            Nah, doesn’t really fit.

            A occupation carried out by a very small number within the community can’t really be used as title of that community…imagine a small village with 3 blacksmiths..could the whole community be called blacksmiths?

        • UKSteve

          Tinkers repair pots and pans. They are not tinkers.

        • Aware

          That term came about because the wider society only really had contact with Travellers who were tinkers by occupation.. and so all Travellers were considered tinkers…its the very same to this day, in that people only read or hear about crimes a Traveller may commit and so liken all Travellers to criminals.

          The vast majority of people have never met a Traveller

          • padraigcolman

            I have met lots of them.

      • Hood

        Would referring to a community of people as ‘travellers’ be correct because a small number of the people in the community travelled?

        • Aware

          Its the generic name society decided to bestow on the communities…

  • ab ab

    Not too different from some piece from the early 70s about how all these pakis are awful and don’t they just smell terrible. Well played Liddle, I feel young again.

    • Aware

      LOL..

  • Agrippina

    They should remain in Rom&Bulg, they can roam the highways & by-ways of those lands with impunity. We do not want anymore over here, Park Lane mob are aggressive, dirty & dim. Channel4 News reporter was chased away by a mob. They were too dense to realise they would have had a sympathetic piece about themselves. Serves him right.

    MEP’s in P’ment should be asking where have all the funds been spent to date, due to the misuse of said funds, they should not be permitted to join Jan 2014, deferred for 1yr.

    We have been ‘enriched’ enough these past 50yrs. We want to look after our elderly, disabled and children in need. Not those we have no affiliation too.

    Prof Collier & David Goodhart have written fine tomes on the subject, now we just need those in charge here, to read them and act.

    Agreed- TGB’s as per Viz.

    • Aware

      Ahh, shame ..life has seemingly been dreadful to you.

  • May

    Mr Liddle!
    You should be ashamed of your self!

    • Aware

      The thing is, such people have no shame..I wonder where any investigation into Liddle would show where his people originated from?

      • rodliddle

        I couldn’t give a toss where my people come from, you racist idiot. Probably Scotland and the north of England, so far back as I can trace. What difference does it make, except to a racist such as yourself? I think I might give the DPP a call.

        • Aware

          Aha, I see, so, you seemingly denigrate people, highlighting the country they come from recently or originally, and when it is suggested a look into where your ancestors come from, to see if you are being hypocritical or not, you rear up like a outraged camel! Like to dish it out do we Mr Liddle but cant take it.

          The DPP? Oh dear, will I be facing you in court..Id like to see you explain how, what you write and have written in the past about people from different communities, is any different than what I have written on here..Im sure there are no end of barristers out there who would chaff at the bit to take my case.

          I believe you have used cruel innuendo, bordering on racial slur, while pretending you are dealing with an issue thats needs to be rectified, and all for the benefit of those who you say it concerns.

          I do hope you are not saying I have besmirched your reputation..I feel that would be easy to prove isn’t the case.

          Yikes! I hope that doesn’t sound like an innuendo.

          Ps have you ever considered a debate with George Galloway? Now that would be an event many would pay to see

          • rodliddle

            You’re a racist. Go away. No Platform here.

          • Dave

            I read your article and by most current understandings your statement ‘It still seems to me that ‘gyppo’ and ‘pikey’ are useful means of lumping them all together’ would be considered racist. Imagine substituting ‘Gyppo’ and ‘pikey’ with the dreaded ‘N’ or ‘P’ or even ‘Y’ (e.g Tottenham supporters) words and consider the uproar and offence you would cause. You’d probably never get published again regardless of the context in which you used those terms and however you tried to justify it.
            So it’s a bit rich you playing the race card to Aware when he/she was merely pointing out the potentially offensive remarks in your article.

          • rodliddle

            Yes indeed, if you ignore the next sentence out of a desperate wish to be offended.

          • Aware

            The workings of your mind is telling…you racially abuse whole communities and when people from those communities complain, you say its because they are looking to be offended..

            Are you so far gone that you cannot see how disingenuous you are being?

          • Aware

            Oh dear, claiming those who accuse you of being racist are racist…Clearly shows, outside of posting such articles, you cannot defend your stance or attitude.

            Asked to provide evidence for your ‘racist’ claim and you fold like an occasional table..

            The times are a-changing for dinosaurs like you Mr Liddle..the pool for your written hate is getting shallower.. better start retraining..

          • guest

            3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

  • Rocksy

    I think the guy on the right is the man who founded Mensa.

    • Aware

      You will never be able to ask members at a meeting will you?

      • Rocksy

        Yes I will.

        • Aware

          No, I dont think you will.

          • Rocksy

            Mensa Canada (Toronto) . Still one of the 2%. Actually one of the 1%.
            Now that we’ve stretched your intellectual limits…conversation over.

          • Aware

            What? You have stretched my intellectual limits by lying?

  • Rho

    If we are trying to come up with a names..lets have one for you. How about ignorant, bigoted, small-minded racist idiot? What an ignorant unnecessary article! Just jump on the band wagon and try drumming up a little more race hate against the Roma and Romanys, why don’t you? If tthese roma took the child then they should be punished..just them! not the rest of us! our children are already being taken away whilst dna tests are carried out! We have no mention in the news of the settled family who trafficked a ten year old child, kept her in slavery and raped her regularly for ten years! Dont worry, all the immigrants wont be gypsy…most will be from the settled communities and we know that ALL settled folk behave impeccably toward others. No misdemeanours amongst that community eh?
    The stupidity of this article and many of these pathetic bleeting comments take my breath away. Think for yourselves and form an HONEST, INFORMED opinion.

    • crosscop

      Honest, informed opinion? I once asked the local police Gypsy Liaison Officer ( who monitored about half a dozen caravan sites) if he knew any adult gypsy males who did not have a criminal record. He thought for a while and then said “No, not one.” He then told me of one man who had 13 different aliases.
      Granted these were mainly Irish travellers – but as thieving is a way of life, I doubt that Roma are much different. Do you know any travellers who have a clean sheet, Rho?

      • Dave

        Why have the Association of Police Chief Officers stated on more than one occasion that they have no more problems with crime among the travelling community than among the settled? Try googling it and find the reports/statements if you don’t believe me. If you want to make a claim use facts not anecdotes and age old myths please crosscrap.

        • crosscop

          It’s called Political Correctness. ACPO are experts in its use.

          • Dave

            Partly agree there though political correctness does tend to go out of the window where travellers are concerned and irrational fears and prejudices take their place.

          • crosscop

            The problem, Dave, is that the “irrational fears” aren’t irrational. ACPO is terrified of being seen as “racist.” They are like Cameron after the murder of Lee Rigby – mortally afraid of telling the truth.
            I don’t deal in “age old myths.” I deal in what I have seen and what I have seen is that travellers cause problems.

          • Aware

            Thank goodness we are not ruled by your narrow experiences

        • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

          To protect their pension !
          Look into what happens during the Appleby fair
          What really happens not what the apologetic media (bbc/Itv forget which ) broadcast.

          Have you watched the programmes covering gypsy communities in UK and USA.
          at every major social event covered a fight breaks out.Often due to family feuds.

          Also ‘no more problems with crime etc’ can be interpreted as meaning there is a lot of crime everywhere.

          • Aware

            The ACPO releases lies to protect their pension? Surely that would endanger their pension.

            You imply the media do not cover the issues correctly and then reference the media as showing what happens at events!

            Which is it?

            I have been to many Traveller and non-Traveller events and fights do break out at some but more often than not they dont.

            Which is more understandable; people arguing over family issues or strangers beating each other up every weekend in every city of the country.

            Physician heal thyself

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            ACPO simply bend the stats or do not report on instances which may be considered non PC

            Can you recall James Anderton ‘going missing’ after making some very anti homosexual community comments.?

            When the politically correct complained bitterly how many blacks were being targetted , likewise Muslims , how many ACPO’s stood firm and said we do it because that’s how the police work..
            If it is required that black street bangers/ muslim terrorists be contained we will continue to do so.

            Well ; how many ?

            it is not difficult to find reports of the mayhem caused by gypsies throughout the country.
            Photos of the total filth they leave behind are available.

            The Dale farm ( hope that’s the name) and an area near where I live, (amongst many others ) cost many thousands in legal costs and ultimately resulted in violence before the travellers were made to…..err err travel.
            Bare knuckle fighting Racing horses on the street. pub brawls. totally disregarding planning laws

            its all there for those who want to see it

            The only answer for types like you is that the indigenous population do such things,
            That is no answer at all !!!

          • Aware

            Have you any evidence the ACPO do as you say?

            But is it only Gypsies who cause mayhem and leave filth around…Have you ever walked through a city an hour after the clubs have closed to see the results of the mayhem and the filth littering the whole area? And this every weekend in every city.

            `The Tory minister Michael Howard told Travellers in 1994 to go away and buy land and they would be able to live on it. He then took away the council’s obligation to identify land for Traveller sites..The Travellers took him at his word bought the land and then found themselves fighting the local councils through the courts to stay on it..Legal costs brought about by Tory lies

            Bare knuckle fighting happens every night of every week among non-Travellers throughout the country.

            Taking a horse and trap onto the streets is not illegal..any more than taking a car onto the streets..a small minority from Traveller and non-Traveller communities race both!

            Planning acts are disregarded by more than just `Travellers ranging from big companies to individual people.

            Yes the answer to someone pointing out that Travellers do these things IS that they are not the only ones..

            You seem to want to ignore the fact that what you accuse Travellers of doing is also carried out by none Travellers…Is it only wrong and mentionable if Travellers do it?

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            Your pov boils down to this:

            we have problems with sections of the indigenous community so lets be tolerant of problems (on a whole RANGE of ISSUES ) caused by uncontrolled immigration.

            eg Christianity once was a very controlling religion so lets accept Islam the basic tenets of which are totally inimical to a relatively free politically diverse society.

            Incidently many of the locally generated social problems are caused by application of policies advocated of those who follow the Millicent Tendency ie trendy lefties who seem to me to be ‘gormless’ in the extreme.

          • Aware

            Live and let live is the basic tenet of the Traveller.

            We are on this earth to learn and advance not to regress.

            Hating for the sake of race/colour/culture is regression of the soul.

          • Rocksy

            What we do in our own country is not your concern. What you and other incomers do in OUR country is our concern.

          • Aware

            How is this country any more yours than the people who have been here since before the 11th century, and the other community since the 15th century?
            Do you actually know when your ancestors first came to this country?

            If you don’t how do you know they were here before the Pavee or Romani?

        • Rocksy

          I don’t care which of the immigrant population is worse. Let them all get the H–ll out.

          • Aware

            That would leave the UK very bare…the vast majority of the people are immigrants at one time or another..Mr Liddle acknowledges even his ancestors came from Scotland

      • Rho

        Yes crosscrop. Strange as it may seem, i do! I was raised to be very upstanding as were most of my fellow romany peers. Of course there are crimes comitted, but the offenders should be defined as criminals..not romany/roma/gypsy. Just as other communies are not defined by the actions of a few, nor should we be. We should be given the respect we deserve and have earned, not hated for some stereotype.

        • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

          The culture of gypsy communities is patriarchal and VIOLENT

          • Rho

            Are you telling a romany gypsy what her culture is?

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            It’s a well recorded pattern of behaviour not to be able to recognise faults present in oneself.
            This is often accompanied by…
            transferring to others faults present in one self

            or

            rationalisation ..now look what you have made me do.

            Neither of the above traits is present in everybody

            So

            yes I am telling you what is representative of your culture.

            Patriarchy Violence.

            Theft on an industrial scale is also present in your culture.

          • Rho

            That is fine, you may of course tell me what my culture is. You may even seem confident in your opinions to anyone that doesnt know the culture personally.
            I am telling you that patriarchy and violence, whilst present are not representative.I who lives the culture, who’s family have lived it for hundreds and hundreds of years.
            Yes, you may tell me what my culture is….it doesnt mean you know what you are talking about.

            Theft on an industrial scale is present in all cultures..it is not considered representative of them.

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            Please check on you tube your own PM Victor Peno ( not sure of spelling) admitting the high rate of crime of Roma immigrants to the UK

            I also saw Simon Hughes on Question time sit stone faced and grimly admit that he was aware of the same statistics.

            Simon Hughes is a liberal of the soppy soaking wet tendency.

          • Aware

            There are of course Roma immigrants and Roma immigrants..some have been here since the 15th century.

            Is this whom those you speak of mean when they talk of Roma immigrants?

            Liddle in his confusion doesn’t take that into consideration.

          • Aware

            The same is the case of the wider society!

            What you see in others so will be seen in you!

          • Rocksy

            Culture? Hardly.

          • Aware

            And that my friend shows your ignorance for all to see.

            Any more discourse with you would be as a tutor to a pupil. Because you do not know of what you speak!

          • Aware

            As are many communities in this country!

        • Rocksy

          You keep missing the point. Your behaviour is of no matter. It is your presence on our shores we object to since we were never asked if we wanted incomers of any kind. The answer if we had been asked would have been NO.

          • Aware

            Who are you to demand anything? When you have proven your ancestors have been here before the Pavee and The Romani come back and let us know

      • Aware

        Stand in the way of evictions by right-wing bailiffs will account for many of the criminal records Travellers have. The kind of record you can be proud of.

      • guest

        Well i have clean white pure sheet Mr in fact all my relatives do .

    • Aware

      Amen

    • Rocksy

      Just so that you don’t feel singled out. We don’t want any immigrants.

      • Aware

        Who is the ‘we’ do you in your ignorance think you speak for all the people of the country..All politicians disagree with you..all parties say immigrants are need it..

    • MikeF

      “We have no mention in the news of the settled family who trafficked a ten year old child, kept her in slavery and raped her regularly for ten years!”

      Oh yes we do:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2463277/Inside-Ilyas-Ashars-basement-kept-sex-slave.html

      • Aware

        Proof no crimes are ‘race’ specific

  • Nick Royles

    If we need to talk about who should be allowed here and what we should name them …. well It may not be politically correct but all you complaining English that are descended from Saxons are just a bunch of illegal immigrant Krauts…… Huns, Bosche, etc etc What should we correctly name you loads of immis. You weren’t invited into Britain. Setting up shop creating your own regions such as Wessex, Essex and Mercia. Bang out of order, go back home. Britain for the British and not the English illegal Krauts. Go back home to Germany possibly?

    • crosscop

      Your knowledge of history is like Swiss cheese – full of holes. The ancestors of the English ( and the Welsh, Scots and Irish) have lived in these islands since they became habitable at the end of the last Ice Age. England is their home and they created it.

      • Nick Royles

        And all your comments on this posting are certified facts. Dinlo. Stop mixing Romany with Irish travellers. All those in England descended from Kraut Saxons (and Angles, Jutes, Frisians) are part of the Kraut Germanic race. English is a Kraut Germanic language. The Kraut Saxons were unwelcome and illegal immigrants. A lot of ethnic Kraut English have only been here since 600AD and not since the ice age. You go back and read some history. As for everyone getting along in ‘Engla land’ – the British – Irish, Scots, Welsh, Strathclyde Britons etc (with the help of Norwegian Vikings) tried to cleanse the Kraut Saxons out of Britain and finally failed at the battle of Brunanburh in 937. Athelstan the Kraut Saxon was victorious against the British.

        • crosscop

          Where did you study History? I got my degree in Manchester. I have also just read Stephen Oppenheimer’s “The Origins of the British.” You can’t win this one, you know. Your anti-English racist views have been made obsolete by research into our DNA.
          BTW – Why do you insist on using offensive racist language when referring to Germans?

          • Nick Royles

            Bravo. I studied History and Politics at Sheffield University but I don’t need to use that to support my argument. I have the Oppenheimer book. Big deal. ‘Bad Science’ is a term bandied about in relation to Oppenheimer’s book. Have you only just read it now? It’s been out quite a while. Glad to see you are on the ball. My partner is German Swiss and I used those terms in relation to highlight your casual use of anti-Gypsy terminology. Oh when it’s on the other foot eh? Sob, sob, sob. Shock horror.

          • Aware

            Lay it on with a shovel brother.

          • Nick Royles

            Baro mui dinlo gorgers.

          • Nick Royles

            Bravo. You went to Manc Uni. Wow. I studied history and politics at Sheffield University but I don’t need to throw that in to give one’s argument credence. Oppenheimer’s book when reviewed usually has the quote ‘Bad Science’ following it. I too have the book but read it when it came out and not just recently. Glad to see you are on the ball. I used ‘Kraut’ to highlight your use of bigoted language against my people. When its on the other foot one is complaining somewhat. What? My girlfriend is German Swiss so I can hardly be credited with anti-Germanism. And for the record I am Romany and have been long used to discriminatory words used by gorgers. No big deal, just amusing when idiots like you presume you are all knowing. Tootle pip. If I’m a TGB then you’re a Kraut.

          • crosscop

            I’m not complaining about your use of derogatory racist terms such as “Kraut” or “gorger.” I believe in freedom of speech – total freedom of speech. I was just pointing out your anti-English racism.
            BTW – If you really are something of an historian, are you seriously going to challenge the fact that the English are descended from people who came here when the ice melted? It’s not just Oppenheimer, you know. Sykes?

          • guest
      • Aware

        And now new people have arrrived..so where your problem?

        • crosscop

          “And now new people have arrrived..so where your problem?”
          That should read “And now new people have arrived..so we’re your problem” of course.

          • Aware

            Err…no it should read that..Do you often feel you know what people think and mean even when it is contradictory to what they think and mean..

    • jpt4w
      • Nick Royles

        Would one please read what I wrote – “All those descended from Saxons” are of Germanic origin. Was I talking about the English descended from the Brythonic tribes? No. Was I talking about the strength and depth of Saxon and Angle penetration into Britain genetically and culturally. No.

      • Nick Royles

        Third time posting this but here goes. Please read what I wrote again. I said those English descended from Saxons and not those English descended from the Brythonic tribes. I did not allude to the strength and depth of Saxon intrusion into the genetic makeup of Britons. Thankyou.

        • jpt4w

          Ok

  • Aware

    The comments and ignorance on here in reply to this dinosaur is amazing.

    Allow a ‘Traveller’ who never had much education in the way of schooling to try enlighten you and ease the pain in your foreheads. Ill address a comment in chronological order as i wade through the muck of the comment section.

    Not a pleasant assignment I can assure you..Im know I will feel tainted by the time I finish.

    Yes my grammar is bad, and my punctuation worse but Im sure clever people like yourselves will decipher what Im trying to get across.

    The term ‘Traveller” is one bestowed on the different communities by society in its ignorance of who we are..it is not one we claim but use for the very reason Liddle (Interesting name, I wonder where that originated from) touches on.. to avoid the non-Traveller freting to much at what to call us.

    It must be dreadful to want to call a person a derogatory name yet not know which is best or worse.

    It really is a good job that society didn’t bestow the epithet ‘leap-froggers’ on us or intelligent people like Mr Liddle would expect us to be constantly leap-frogging around the country.

    People living within a insular community or indeed region will hold onto their mother accents much longer…isn’t that understandable? While the accent may seem undistinguishable to those from outside the community, within there will be noticeable difference depending on where in the country the person lives. Ie A Manchester and Liverpool person will sound the same to someone from outside the UK or even within it.

    Didicoy is a Gypsy term usually meaning someone who one of the parents is not from the community. It also means ‘friend of the Gypsies’ It has been taken and used in a derogatory way much the same way ‘Chav’ has

    The usual refrain of “if you like them so much why cant they live in your garden” Is the cliched dribbling of a child..empathy with a human being from a social group does not mean taking responsibility for them..grow up (sometime)

    The Roman (Gypsy)) has been here since Henry the Eighths time, The Pavee (Irish Traveller) are documented in some parish records from the 11th century.

    It is a mere 7 miles, at its closest point, Between Ireland and the UK..did a culture of people termed Travellers wait until the 50s to cross that distance. Pavee’s were here with the Romans. Whats more Pavee and Romany are here to stay..People like Liddle and the ilk, if they dont like it, can either lump it or move to another country…perhaps the country their ancestors recently came from.

    The people residing in this country wouldn’t be any the loss for their absence.

    Ps I have had the dubious pleasure of speaking to Liddle in the past and he is such a loathsome individual in the flesh that he really has no option but to deliver his hate in print..TV is not ready for Liddle.

    • rodliddle

      I wasn’t searching for a “derogatory” name, I was searching for an acceptable name, as I stated several times. As you say, “traveller” does not quite fit the bill.
      And the name Liddle comes from the Scottish borders.
      And I am of course absolutely delighted that you are here to stay, whoever you are.

      • Aware

        Mr Liddle, I did not say ‘Traveller” doesn’t fit the bill…far from it. It is name people use and know to use so it does fit the bill.

        It seemingly doesn’t fit the bill for you because it is not derogatory enough/

        If people do not want to use the ethnic names of the people in question..Romany and Pavee, then Traveller will suffice..That of course doesn’t mean people should be expected to live up to such a name any more than if it were ‘cartwheelers’!

        I see, so you are from a scots heritage ( another country) residing in England ..orchestrating as you do against people born in England who’s ancestors came from another country.

        Have you considered what the English people should term you and your community Mr Liddle?

        Out of interest, when did your ancestors scale the wall into England?

        • rodliddle

          I think you are a bit of a halfwit, “Aware”. An eighth-wit, maybe. You are looking for the pleasure of being offended and where you can’t find it, make it up instead. Nowhere did I say anything about wanting a derogatory term. A term was all. And I was commenting on how some terms suddenly become derogatory. And you said the term “traveller” was bestowed in ignorance. Now, cartwheel off some place.

          • Aware

            I may be a half wit but Im not a disgusting racist halfwit am I?

            Rather than worrying what new term might be used to take the place of the derogatory terms you cite with glee, why dont you deal with the issue of what we should look to call you and those in the same category, now that we are aware that at one time, your ancestors sneaked past the wall set as a border to stop such encroachment?

            Not nice to be made to feel unwelcome in your country of choice is it Mr Liddle.

          • rodliddle

            you’ve revealed yourself as a racist, I’m afraid. A racist who clearly cannot read properly.

          • Aware

            Au contraire Mr Liddle there is nothing in my posts remotely like racism..

            I of course did read your pathetic attempts to cater for those who look to you for such offerings.. Im also fully aware of your little trait of not quite saying what it is you clearly mean. How you must annoy your followers with the ‘Wriggle room’

            Sly Innuendo being your main characteristic imo…

            Some people, Mr Liddle, to get to somewhere in life they deem important, will denounce any spark of decency bred into them.

  • John

    Digging up roads and not paying taxes? How very dare you. I have Romany heritage, you call us either ‘Roma’ or ‘Pavee’ pretty simple. I’ve worked since I was 15, payed taxes all my life, never claimed any welfare, and I am now reading Int relations at a Russell group uni. Rod is nothing but an odious little man and for half of the other commentators here, all you do is play right into the hands of the left.

  • RodLiddleisaCUNextTuesday

    This article is vile, as is its author.

    • Jeremy

      As is this magazine, if you’re honest.

    • Aware

      Liddle seems to have gone awol…I wonder if he has been sanctioned?

  • Aware
    • Eddie

      So, you are against freedom of speech?

      I bet you make a living spouting your drivel in some council diversity department eh? By the way, have you asked black or Asian people what they think of gypsies? (if they are honest with you, they will be way more racist than any whites). Should these people perhaps go back to their homeland of India and get out of ours?

      Why should everyone come here to Britain? Why can’t they stay in Eastern Europe? Ah yeah, no benefits, free money, free housing, free medicines, child benefit and molly coddling by tax-funded traitors there…

      • Aware

        Freedom of speech does not supersede a persons right to be free of racial abuse.

        Racial abuse from anyone is objectionable regardless of race or colour.

        You of course do not know if all or even the majority of the people you mention think this way.

        I do not think Asians or Black people should go anywhere they do not want to go..Do you?

        “everyone” But thats not the case is it?

        Do you vote?

  • Eddie

    The thing is, ‘travellers’ in the UK are a mix of all sorts – no way are they a ‘race’.
    In Central Europe there are gypsies descended from the lower class nomadic Indian tribes who travelled there centuries ago. Like those in the photo, they have dark skins.
    The words gypo and pikey are used by most, though the latter refers to any traveller who passes through turnpikes.
    The word ‘traveller’ is absurd, however, for are we not all travellers these days?
    The vocabulary does not exist for this group of people, maybe because this is not a united group of people, but lots of different tribes – some just hippies, some Irish, some the darker central European gypsies (which I do wish we had kept out of the UK together with lots of other EU immigrants – we’ve got enough ethnic problems without taking in the dregs from Central Europe).

    • Aware

      The two main Traveller communities are recognised in Law as ethnic minorities.

      There are many arguments of what constitutes a race.

      The words used are considered offensive and the latter word has seen convictions dished out to those who have used it.

      There are real names for the people in question.

      The ‘Gypsy’ in this country are mainly from the Roma Tribe, Hence Romani As you have stated, there are many “Gypsy” Tribes

      The Irish Traveller are Pavee.

      They do not belong to the ‘Gypsy’ tribes and are the indigenous people of Ireland, no matter how hard that is denied by those we the most reasons to deny it.

      • Eddie

        Yes, I know, but the law also recognises a great many non races as races, and the government also recognises ‘Scots’ as a language when it clearly isn’t.
        The law is the law, that is all – and just because people have been arrested for using a word, does not mean the people that word refers to are a race.
        The gypsies in the UK are mostly Irish tinkers, in my experience, who look no different to anyone else really. They are not real gypsies like the dark skinned gypsies of Central and Eastern Europe who are descended from Indian nomadic tribes.
        Maybe I have just missed the gypsy caravans full of Roma toddling through the land, but the only real Roma I see in the UK are East European gypsies.

        • Aware

          And there you have it.. the law recognises.

          Thats how things are done in this country.

          The result for those arrested and convicted are the same regardless of the ‘debate’ about race.

          ” The gypsies in the UK are mostly Irish tinkers”

          Thats wrong and a contradiction..

          Firstly the term you use was used for Travellers who carried out tinkering. This was a very small number of the communities…it was very skilled work

          Secondly Pavee aka Irish Traveller are no more Romani aka Gypsy than a Indian is African.

          There are approx 360,000 Travellers in the country of that the Pavee (irish Traveller) makes up approx 4%.

          “real gypsies’ A person is either a gypsy or they are not. The Roma you are referring to are new to the country the Roma you feel is not real have been here since King Henry the 8th time. None the less Roma for being here that long.

          The Pavee from the country known as Ireland (they have a different name for it being the indigenous people) Have probably been coming and going from the UK since the first canoes were floated. 7 short miles at its nearest.

          Most accept the Romani and the Pavee are different and more importantly the law does too and legislates for them as such.

          Of course you are entitled to your opinion but it is just that I am afraid and has no standing in law.

  • Sandy_Jamieson

    I recall reading an anonymous Police Officers blog (before senior officers panicked and banned them,) in the Police Canteen, travellers were referred to as Caravan using Nomadic Travellers

    • Aware

      Goes to show how there are ‘bad apples’ in every ‘community’ and how some police need to be vetted regularly.

      • Sandy_Jamieson

        I don’t think it does. If the Police is to reflect the population it serves then with views like that being commonplace, many are bound to share them. Add to that the fact that when the Police usually interface with Travellers, it is because some crime as been committed. which is usually against usually against a member of the indigenous community. It is unusual for Travellers to give evidence against their fellows, so a jaundiced view of them is bound to develop

        • Aware

          Is it for the police to reflect the population it serves? You mean they should have rapist, murderers, burglars etc within the ranks?

          Or just be prepared to use racist abuse against some of those they serve?

          Do not the police interface with members of the public mostly when crime has been committed?

          Who do you feel IS the indigenous community? And why?

          Any stats on Travellers giving evidence against Travellers?

          Your post is just a pot of personal opinion backed up with no facts.

  • Revengeofthetravellers

    B”llocks does this article appear “in the print edition of the magazine.” The headline has changed. It used to say: “What do we call the people who abducted Maria? It’s a minefield.” You can also see it embedded in the link pasted into the petition thats doing the rounds. We can all guess why that was changed.
    Liddles answer is “pikeys”and “gyppos”. And he includes Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers.
    Poor Johnny Delaney was an Irish Traveller child who was murdered by a gang of racists shouting “pikey” so make your own mind up as to wether its acceptable.
    Personally, I think the same editorial culture that would have stopped the Spectator publishing an article suggesting “we” should call Black people ‘n……r’s and Gay people ‘f……..ts’ should have kicked in.
    Liddle can write and think and read what he likes, but the Spectator should apologise for publishing this. And correct a couple of inaccuracies that unfolding events have embarrassed them with….
    And yes, I do pay my taxes and no, I am not funded by “your money” and no, I won’t feck off to wherever I came from. Only if you feck off back to Normandy.

    • Aware

      There is a petition making the rounds to get just what you mention, an apology and a right to reply..

      http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-spectator-make-a-public-apology-and-allow-a-right-of-reply?share_id=bQybCpKDzT&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_invitation

      Liddle is a bit sad really..living in another age..

      • Revengeofthetravellers

        I know. And incoherent. Like most of the commenters on here he bangs on about civilised norms and breaks them at the same time. Must be hard trying to churn out a comment article every week though. Especially when you only have one simple idea of how the world works.
        I know so many Gypsies and Travellers who would love to debate his article with him, including the editor of the Travellers Times, which is not funded by the taxpayer by the way.
        They would knock spots off him – intellectually of course.
        My problem is that the whole article is based on a now discredited fact and he calls people I know – a lot of whom cant answer back -pikeys and gyppos. Which probably breaks the very laws he says ‘pikeys’ and ‘gyppos’ don’t follow. It’s definitely abusive.
        There is some twat on her banging on about Hitler having the right idea fer christsake. Says it all really. Drill down into the ideas of uber liberal conservatives like Liddle and that’s always what you will find.

        • Aware

          The people on here spouting their racial rubbish feel they are very civilised…when in fact by their very ideology they show themselves to be rather backward.

  • Revengeofthetravellers

    Hah! You took down my comment! So much for freedom of speech. It only works for some it seems…

    • Aware

      Strange how they did not remove this one..

      “Jackthesmilingblack

      Adolph may have been a blackguard, but he sure had the right idea about the pikies.”

      Might lead people to think they approve of the post.

  • ohforheavensake

    I’d call them people.
    But, Rod, I’ve still got to figure out what I’d call you.

  • Revengeofthetravellers

    A 68 year old Romany Gypsy women I know has got an expression that might do. It’s “Ocean Going Twat”. But maybe “interstellar twat” is better.

    • Aware

      “A thinking fool” is a good one. Do you know DLB from TT personally?

      • Revengeofthetravellers

        Yes. I write for it. For free. Im Mike Doherty. A barge traveller and former noo traveller, so not an ethnic one.
        And no I am not from a middle class background to forestall all you troll twats out there. I went out and got my education the hard way as an adult. And paid for it myself.
        Sorry – yes. A friend of his as well. You?

        • Aware

          Im Pavee.
          I dont know DLB, just heard of him. I think he was part of a Romany theatre group we approached a while back.

          I did have a connection to TT under the old editor, but dropped it when I felt he wasn’t being inclusive enough.

          I havent bothered since.

          • Revengeofthetravellers

            Get in touch via the TT. They will forward your contacts to me. I do other stuff as well.

          • Aware

            Ill ring them or email them, Can you advise them to pass on your details.

          • Aware

            Iv sent them an email.

          • Revengeofthetravellers

            I’ll chase it tomorrow. If not also try TM formerly ITMB who have my details to hand. Wieird place to meet though. Lol.

    • Nick Royles

      Parni Jalling Minger.

      • Revengeofthetravellers

        Hah! She’s just informed me that your very very close!

        • Nick Royles

          Ha! I should hope so. A lot comes down to phonetics I guess and how folki end up pronouncing and then spelling words. Seen pani spelt as parni aswell and I jump between the two. Never seen jalling spelt as jailing before though.

          Just variations I guess – it’s like gorger. Seen it written as gorja, gawjaw, gadgie, ghadgie, gadje etc.

      • Revengeofthetravellers

        ‘Pani jailing minge’

  • David

    What about, ‘people of travel’

    • Revengeofthetravellers

      Call people whatever you like if your prepared to do it to their face. That’s only fair.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Adolph may have been a blackguard, but he sure had the right idea about the pikies.

    • Toby Esterházy

      Adolph?

      • The_greyhound

        Perhaps he meant Ed. Miliband’s Dad. He was ph.

        • Toby Esterházy

          The “Pikies”? The stupid Troll got his epithets all mixed up!

          • Aware

            Who got what now ?

          • Toby Esterházy

            There were no Irish Travellers on the Continent?

          • Aware

            Oh yes there are…There is quite a large settlement in Germany

            Can you perhaps advise how you know there are no Pavee on the Continent?

          • Toby Esterházy

            Germany is a large Country. Can you be more precise? I also used the past tense.

          • Aware

            Yes, I apologise, you did indeed use the past tense.

          • Toby Esterházy

            The Germany story reads more like a Stag and Hen week in Germany if you ask me!

          • Aware

            Not sure what story you are alluding to.

          • Toby Esterházy

            Never mind. I have no time for them.

          • Aware

            Then don’t concern yourself with them.

            Live your life and let them live theirs.

          • Toby Esterházy

            Ideally, ALL of Ireland should had been cleared out and be replaced with Scottish, French Huguenot, Flemish, Dutch, German, Swiss and Scandinavian planters, but it is probably some 600 years too late for that.

          • Aware

            Ireland is again being cleared..apparently increasing numbers of people leaving every year. Well within a hundred years Ireland will be one vast oilfield.

          • Aware

            Identifying where people live is not approved of by Travellers.

            This comes from the ‘Gypsy count’ held by all councils at least once but in some cases twice a year…The councils send out a crew of workers to count how many Travellers are in their area..when asked why they do this, they will say so they how many they have to consider and provide for in the area..

            When you ask what it is they are looking to provide the best answers you will get is “for site assessments” the worse I got was ‘numbers’

            Can you imagine the uproar of the council once or twice a year went around the borough counting how many Pakistanis there were or how many African?

            In the old days of the Gypsy count, the councils would gerrymander..ask Travellers to move into the next borough until the count was finished..the borough next door would do that with ‘their’ Gypsies and the fraud would go on..

            Why, you may, did the Traveller go along with it?

            Good question, not to do as told would see the Traveller family hounded by the council enforcement officers at every turn.

    • Aware

      Your usage of that term is offensive. Ill report it to the admin of the spectator and see what they intend to do about it.

      See Mr Liddle, how your type of articles can incite racial abuse and hatred?

      Im sure we wouldn’t expect to see derogatory and inflammatory, and indeed illegal names and opinions, like this used if this were a article about other ethnic communities.

      Will you denounce the poster Mr Liddle and report it yourself to admin?

      Or is it “Job done”

      • The_greyhound

        How you fear debate, and how eager you are to close it down.

        • Aware

          Debate as you like..here, debate with me..

        • Aware

          Still waiting!

    • Jeremy

      What century did you spring from?

  • george

    Yes, when can we finally say quite frankly that ‘the oppressed’ are actually oppressors — of those with decent morals (e.g. ‘do unto others’) and standards of modern Enlightenment living (e.g. we live by evidence not by prejudice or superstition)? Why is is that every sub-civilized group on the planet has some sort of claim to suck our blood?

    • Aware

      Because we have sucked theirs?

      Just a thought, suggesting some groups are sub-civilised?

      (in the negative definition rather than the positive)

      Would that place you firmly within such a group?

  • george

    His shirt: you feel like saying: please don’t.

    God only knows what they’ve done to that poor girl’s mind.

    not all of whom will be fully qualified neurosurgeons or Stakhanovite plasterers. Rod is a very, very norty boy.

    P. S. They are called gypsies because they were believed a few centuries ago, on account of their countenance, to hail originally from Egypt. I thought that was what any fule noo.

    • Aware

      ” Rod is a very, very norty boy”

      He is not…he probably thinks he is a messiah.

      • george

        Doubt it.

        • Aware

          Well you never can tell with Liddle..he was once a socialist you know

          • george

            I think he’s still trying to keep a foot in that corner. Just a foot, mind.

          • Aware

            “Just a foot” Just in case?

          • george

            Because something in him can’t give it up.

          • Aware

            Bit like Comrade Jekyll and Mr Liddle?

          • george

            Something like that. Comrade Jekyll and UKIP Liddle (I assume it’s not Tory Liddle).

  • Weaver

    Once upon a time, before the industrial revolution, with seasonal agriculture and a mostly rural population there were jobs for itinerant labour and small metal traders / tinkers. Being illiterate / innumerate was no great curse in such a world. But that way of life is gone; the economic basis for it is gone entirely. It’s gone the way of the farrier and fletcher, the miller and the rag-and-bone.

    Unfortunately, an entire ethnic group seems to have hitched its wagon to a culture and lifestyle which just is not compatible with modernity. What’s the best long term prognosis for the travellers? A vague paracitism, criminality, and welfare dependency, romantised by liberal apologists feeling guilt over their own middle class lifestyles.

    • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

      quote:romantised (the gypsy ways) by liberal apologists feeling guilt over their own middle class lifestyles.

      Just why so much support APPEARS to exist for immigration of different races- cultures really passes me by.

      Why so little concern is expressed as the ratio of coloured to whites steadily increases.

      Incidently seasonal work is where many immigrants operate quickly and inevitably followed by welfare.
      Since after globalisation an increasing number of indigenous Brits do the same it clearly cannot possibly be a problem.
      Have i missed anything ?

      • Aware

        So your issue is about skin colour not race?

        White immigrants are fine..what about white Travellers…okay with you?

    • Aware

      Some good points in your post.

      But what you need to understand is, the people are different in their culture, beliefs, traditions, language..many experts would consider that enough to constitute a ‘race’

      Your prognosis is not very uneducated in that the vast majority of Travelers in this country are self-employed and do not claim benefits.

      Benefits are considered a little bit iffy and only associated with those who really need to be looked after..

      Travellers are very proud and independent people and so benefits from society are little frowned upon and reluctantly accepted

      But of course the stereotypical myths, of which you make mention. persist.. because to not do so would mean rethinking and reevaluating Travellers..

      “But we can’t have that can we…what would the great unwashed use as a scapegoat then, who could we demonise to allow steam to be vented by the masses, why they may even catch on to us!”

      Wake up, see why the demonisation of Travellers is so prevalent…we are merely scapegoats to distract!

      Even the most uneducated Traveller knows that. Duh.

      • Weaver

        Respectfully, If you have data to support your claims, I will look at it without prejudice. Data on the matter seems to be hard to come by, for some reason…

        The only data I’ve been able to dig up suggests lower literacy, numeracy, income, and higher criminality amongst traveller communities. Benefit claims also seem to have risen substantially from an admittedly low base. I have not seen good controls applied for the data I have found, so this may be wrong. But I’m not in the business of accepting hearsay.

        In any event, I stand by the economic prognosis. The future will not be kind to this lifestyle.

        • Aware

          As with all thing Traveller-ish..data is hard to come by…most organisations and Govt departments rather than admit that make the data up..after all they have to produce something.

          The lack of an education is correct, but that’s no longer because of a lack of wanting it, but because of unstable residency…ie people getting evicted off their land..ie planning acts superseding human right acts.

          The perception, instilled by the mass media, that Travellers are criminals lays the foundation for the data of there being high number of criminals within the Traveller communities.

          When did these bodies, who impart the data, start identifying criminals for who was a Traveller and who wasn’t. If they didn’t where did they get their data from.

          Travellers, being traditionally rather secretive, why would they identify themselves as Travellers.

          They would be reluctant to do so before a court because of the fear of a higher consequence…and reluctant to do so if jailed for fear of racial discrimination and physical attack.

          The past was never kind to the Traveller so fear of this being the same in the future is not a worry…nothing will change to any great degree and the Traveller will adapt and of course survive.

          • Weaver

            I have some sympathy with Traveller plight under planning laws, which I also dislike. So long as they are sticking to land they own.

            Nothing says any of us, our group, or our culture, will survive. The past is littered with dead populations and cultures that didn’t adapt or were just plain unlucky.

          • Aware

            Most land where there is prolonged legal issues is invariably Traveller land.

            Travellers trespassing is easily dealt with and rarely get to actual court room stage.

            When you consider that the Pavee survived the Irish famine when even middle class Irish perished it would suggest they will survive anything else flung at them as a people.

          • Weaver

            I agree that it should be a lot easier for Travellers to settle on land that they own.

          • CraigStrachan

            Well, the Showmen’s Guild has about 5,000 members, which after taking into account families probably represents around 15,000 people engaged in the fairground business today.

            It’s true that if you ask any one of them how the business is doing you’ll likely get a tale of woe. But then that’s been the case for as long as I can remember!

          • Aware

            There is no doubt a watering down of the strict traditions of the Traveller, but that again can be considered adaption…There has never been any proof to show that the Traveller belief, that they are the indigenous people of the country known as Ireland is not correct. DNA disclosed a strand that was not found in the Irish people sampled, yet all the Travellers sampled had it..It was strand that was not match throughout the world…whatever that might reveal.

            The main thing I feel is the Traveller will go on long after a lot of cultures/races have lost themselves within more dominant cultures..Travellers have already proven over millennia this is not something they have done.

    • Nick Royles

      One of my cousins is illiterate and he’s almost a millionaire. There are many rich travellers that run successful businesses. A lot will not advertise that they are Gypsies due to narrow minded perceptions from gorgers. Travellers have moved on in occupations as well, they have stepped up into the modern age. Why do you think farmers are having to get students and foreigners to pick our fruit and vegetables? Its because Gypsies have moved on up in the world and don’t need to do that back breaking work anymore. They are not people from a bygone age. And will you just get this ‘welfare dependency myth’ out of your head. Travellers have a strong work ethic.

      • Weaver

        Nick,

        I fear you have not mastered statistical induction, no matter how wealthy your illiterate cousin.

        But seriously, I would like to see your Romany occupation and benefits data, if you have it.

        • Nick Royles

          Ah but it’s you that brought the issue of welfare up. You show me your random sampling that you have made in the field.

          • Weaver

            I certainly don’t have any – you know that data collection in this area is stigmatised by the PC brigade.

            The only stuff I have seen is the prison / ethnicity breakdowns and Roumanian arrest rates – both of which point to abnormal criminality. Not huge – but higher than base by a factor of 2 to 4.

            Could be explained by controls for poverty and education, of course, but damned if we just don’t have the data…

  • wudyermucuss

    I find it all thrillingly vibrant!
    The mass Irish traveller brawl the other night was just super,very cohesive,but not particularly diverse.
    (I’ve informed the local council’s diversity unit.)
    The Roma rummaging through my bin is as much a part of my life now as say,the sighting of a blue tit,or the first showings of spring bulbs.The delightful tinker of scrap metal being separated from its casing is as common as the rustle of the leaves when the wind blows.
    Slightly confused though.There are already very,very many Bulgarians and Rumanians around here.Surely they’re not,you know,illegal in some way?

    • Aware

      ‘slightly confused’

      Come come, do not undersell yourself.

  • Nick Royles

    What do you call a former Trotskyite (Rod Liddle) – From Socialist Workers Party member/activist to Christian right winger?

    • Jeremy

      Peter Hitchens followed a similar route.

    • Aware

      A ‘Liddle confused’ ?

    • The_greyhound

      Sensible.

  • Robert Taggart

    Settlers.

    • Aware

      Interesting..you would then have ‘settled’ people and ‘settler’ people…

      One already settled after Travelling out of Africa eons ago and others slowly settling but still travelling occasionally..

      We are all Travellers in the past and at the present.

  • Jeremy

    What do we call you? Numerous words come to mind. If they no longer travel, as you claim, they won’t be coming here! I hear a secret deal is being cooked up as we speak between France, Germany and the UK. At the last minute, a delay will be announced on the January 1st date; a two year postponement, to be repeated until a solution is found to this very real problem. The point of this will mainly be to weaken the far-right parties in all three countries (especially France and the UK) and avoid the possibility of the UK leaving the Union. Go on: attack!

    • Aware

      I reply because your post is stationed under mine

      The communities have names that have been mention in these posts.

      The Roma can be termed Romani.

      I have heard the Roma now coming to the country termed as ‘New Roma’ to differentiate between them and the Roma that have been here since the 15th century. How they feel about this I do not know.

      The Pavee aka Irish Travellers. They have been documented here in some parish records from the 11th century.

      I do not claim they do not travel, I state no one can be expected to travel consistently just because society bestows a title (Traveller) on them.

      As for the rest..who knows what horse trading govts and politicians get up to.

  • http://www.irenicon.co.uk/ Annabel Kaye

    Why not call people who abduct children’ kidnappers’? And by the way the majority of Romanians and Bulgarians are not Roma/Sinti/|Gypsies or travellers. What is the point of your article other than some vague venting about immigratino and some anti Gypsy labels. Not worthy of the Spectator at all.

    • Aware

      Could Mr Liddle be considered a professional troll, as per the internet interpretation of a troll?

  • Rilman

    Labour or Cons don’t give a toss about this, they won’t be living anywhere near them or breaking into their houses and sheds, mugging them in their leafy villages or attending their children’s private schools.

    The sooner the British public realise this and start voting for a government that represents their best interests, the better.

    • Aware

      Im quite sure the Roma will not be living in leafy villages or have children attending private schools..

  • Jeremy

    Tonight’s Inside Out (BBC London) contained an excellent report on the reality behind this Romani issue. This problem obviously needs a creative, Europe-wide solution.

    • Aware

      You mean Roma.

      What do you think the ‘solution’ should be

      • Jeremy

        No, I mean Romani. Roma are a sub-group of that. Or if you prefer the exonym: Gypsies!

        Well I would be generous. They need rehabilitation and recognition. Maybe set them up with functional villages and train them to work in call centers and factories. This would cost money and would not be popular with readers of this magazine, or indeed many people. The alternative is too ugly to contemplate.

        • Aware

          Roma are a tribe within the ‘Gypsy’ peoples.

          ‘rehabilitation’ at the expense of their culture, beliefs, traditions?

          Sites are what Travellers want and have bought and developed only to have them fall foul of local councils and nimbys.

          as for work…the work ethic among Travellers is amazing…but people cant admit that because it then belies the “lazy benefit scrounger” myth.

          Travellers like to be their own bosses and would fend for themselves if they are allowed.

          There is no sinister alternative…those sort of days are well gone.

          • Jeremy

            Well you know better than Wikipedia. I mean, this is the Spectator! Arrogant, public school moron.

          • Aware

            LOL…I a “public school moron” I am surprised

            I’ve been called many things in my life but never that..You can call me a Pavee or a Traveller if you like, or even a moron but never a public school one..

          • Jeremy

            Just an assumption given the forum

          • Aware

            Fair enough…Wasn’t sure if you were insulting me or paying me a compliment.

  • The_greyhound

    I do wish the self-righteous enthusiasts for foreigners occupying my country would at least lead from the front – offer travellers, Albanians, and the rest a bed in their nice middle class homes.

    Until then they’re just a bunch of lying canting hypocrites.

    • Aware

      Most of those speaking for Travellers on here ARE Travellers.

      The author speaks of Roma but seems ignorant to the fact Roma have been here since the 15th century…probably longer than the authors ancestors and mayhap yours?

      I have a real sadness for little children starving In Africa and donate what I can but I couldn’t accommodate them..should I be expected to?

      Does that make me a hypocrite?

      • The_greyhound

        No.

        It’s quite clear that those who want to promote the importation of yet more people who don’t belong here are the same wretches that have orchestrated the catastrophic arrival of hordes of peasants from all over the the third world. You daren’t (and can’t) address my first point though : bleeding heart
        liberals are in the business of wishing unwanted foreigners on others,
        never on their own homes or communities.Hypocrites they remain.

        And as a white Briton I am inclined to resent the suggestion that my ancestors aren’t indigeneous – they were – and must remind you that this country belongs to its indigenes, and no-one else. I don’t have to justify that position : foreigners remain foreign, and the uninvited remain uninvited, however long they hang about.

        • Aware

          Are you not a blood foreigner to this country…You claim ownership because of mere time.

          Im not sure you are right…are liberals only confined to the middle class? if not, then they will of course interface with new people to the country.

          Why do you think your ancestors ARE indigenous…because they are white. No justification asked for.

          This country ‘belongs’ to those who live in it legally.

          “foreigners remain foreign”

          What a ridiculous statement!

          • PC IN THE UK CAN LICK MY BALLS

            You, my Public School Boy friend are a complete Penis.

          • Aware

            Im as far from a public schoolboy as you can get..Try reading the thread you have decided to comment on.

            Btw. You seem to have a…thing…with male genitalia!

  • MY LORD IS MY KING .

    what a stupid pointless piece of writing .How about we are all human beings.Do we not all breathe air ? do we not all have feelings thoughts .Let us see whats under the skin ? The same .Ignorance creates Divide .end of .

    • Aware

      Well said.

      • MY LORD IS MY KING .

        Thank you ,I am stunned by this whole piece of writing ,The postings of some peoples whom are these people ? I feel nothing but sadness in my heart .I am a mother to three small children and if my children grew up to behave and speak in such a way i would be mortified .

        • guest

          People have no shame .

        • Aware

          Unfortunately such people as you mention, while thinking they have free thought, have bought into the propaganda aimed at them constantly by the mass media.

          How do you stop the Traveller’s way of life becoming attractive to non-Traveller people, especally now the do is hitting the fan?

          Why demonise them even more…

          The propaganda against Travellers goes back centuries and not just because they were considered ‘foreigners’ its a little more calculating than that.

          Sure there are bad apples among the Traveller communities but wouldn’t it be odd if there wasnt?

          If people cant live and let live how can you demand the same consideration?

          A Traveller’s blessing on your children, may they grow strong, wise and caring.

        • love thy neighbour

          i feel pitty for those who will to do and speak unjust of others ,we are all of the same kin .we are human beings .

  • PC IN THE UK CAN LICK MY BALLS

    Call them whatever the fuck you want.
    Pikeys, Travellers, Tinkers, nackers, Didycoys or thieving cunts.
    Reading some of the stuff you people put on here really makes me think that you have no idea about life in the UK.
    Some little stuck up prick Posted that ‘most people haven’t met a traveller’!!
    Are you having a laugh?
    You obviously don’t live in the UK.
    Everywhere has ‘Travellers’.
    That’s what THEY call themselves.
    And Yes I mean the loud mouth, troublemaking idiots that rob and steal, cause problems in the local schools, appear on Jeremy Kyle and get arrested every time they enter a pub. Usually in a group and end up fighting amongst themselves (Witnessed on many occasions) and they now live in Housing Association properties and they still that call themselves Travellers.
    So yes we will call them what we want and some Trolling little dick who thinks he can string a sentence together to make a point that actually has no point, can go and live with these so called ‘Travellers’ and get on like a house on fire. Experience it 1st hand, then come back and try your luck.

    • Aware

      I wonder how you found your way onto this blog.

      But thank you for allowing us to make our minds up to what is legal, what is correct and what is wrong, in regards to referring to the people in question. I find calling someone by their name is always useful…

      Do people have to be floating with the likes of you to know what life is like in the UK?

      Seeing people and interacting with them are two different things. Many people have not made contact with Travellers

      The epithet ‘Traveller” was given to the people and they use it for convenience sake.

      Im afraid to say the oiks that appear on the JK show are from the wider society and are not Travellers from either community. You sir are besmirching your own community.

      Most of the people defending Travellers on here are indeed Travellers..no 1st hand experience needed.

      You seem rather bitter in regards to your own community…why then try to change that without attempting to change communities you know nothing about.

      BTW the Sun blog is in another place..:)

  • Daniel McDicken

    Actually with regards to some of your earlier comments, the word
    “Tinker” implies the working of Tin (blacksmith) and if your a traveller
    then you yourself have heard the expression “Minker” (leather tanner)

    Both
    of these where trade’s in the Traveller community however these two
    trade’s where at odd’s with the so called early indiginous people as you
    put if of the British Isle’s… That is why someone speaking the ‘Cant
    or Shelta’ would not understand someone speaking ‘Beul’ or the Cant of
    the northerners.

    Because the Cant was specificly designed to keep outsiders from understanding what was being said.

    But they are all decended from the one and the same community, some of them just settled down, long, long ago.

    Madainn mhath (good morning) Slum hawrum
    Feasgar math (good afternoon) Slum dorahōg
    Oidhche mhath (good night) Muni kon

    And
    as to some of the other people comments about how wonderful it is to
    see travellers being moved on, they need a smack with a very big stick.
    You move them on and then they’re going to go where exactly?

  • Terry Field

    They could be called the same as another travelling person who is both dangerous and in general disliked.
    They could be called ‘Brownies’

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