Features

The joy of online hatred

If you're tough enough, there's nothing more bracing than an online bitch-fight

1 March 2014

9:00 AM

1 March 2014

9:00 AM

On Saturday morning, when the body of the beautiful Antipodean model and television personality Charlotte Dawson was being taken from her home in Sydney, I was back in Blighty rolling up my sleeves and getting stuck in for yet another happy hour in the gladiatorial arena that is the Spectator online comments section. Wherein, amongst other things, an angry trans-person had threatened me with the Police, for committing Hate Crimes (note the use of Krazy Kapitals) and a Beating from her Hells Angel Husband.

These two things might seem completely random were it not for the fact that in 2012 Charlotte Dawson was admitted to hospital after a massive twit-off in which she was targeted by an organised online campaign of harassment at least in part due to her involvement with an anti-cyber-bullying crusade. ‘It kept going and going and going and going and going,’ she said of the anonymous hordes who told her to kill herself.

Some people saw a Hint of Hypocrisy (smells like an interesting fabric conditioner) in this, Dawson being notorious down under for her rather catty attitude as an Australia’s Next Top Model judge. She had also been bitchy about the Oz equivalent of Wags as part of her job as a TV fashion reporter and last month encouraged the singer Lorde to leave her native New Zealand: ‘Unless you’re very mediocre you need to get out of there … you just have to if you want to keep succeeding, otherwise it’ll just crush your spirit.’

But it was Dawson herself whose spirit ended up being crushed, and her friends and colleagues maintain that online trolling played some part in this. Sad though her death was, one would have to have a heart of stone not to raise a smile at the sight of Russell Crowe breaking down in tears at the news, before tweeting ‘Charley … just don’t understand. There’s not enough kind souls as it is. Rest in peace.’

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Meanwhile, over at the Spectator website, myself and a band of recently assembled cyber-chums — including the magnificently named Flaming Fairy — were going at it hammer, tongs and snapping thongs with a person calling themselves both Michelle-Louise and The Dame. (I suppose we all had imaginary friends as tots, and some people liked the experience so much that they have seen fit to continue it well into middle age.)

Michelle the Dame, it soon transpired, was one angry trans-sister, who had taken exception to my Spectator piece on intersectionality and after a few cries of ‘Bigot!’ and ‘Fatty!’ the threats began in earnest. After she had warned me half a dozen times that a good old Altamont-style seeing-to was coming my way from her better half — ‘Did I MENTION that my husband is a Hells Angel and nightclub bouncer?’ — I tired of her trollery and bit back: ‘Did I mention that MY husband is a GRAMMARIAN — the MOST RIGOROUS grammarian in both East and West Sussex? I warn you that if HE decides to punctuate you, you’ll STAY punctuated!’

That did it; M the D went ballistic, addressing myself and my gay playmates thus: ‘You are the biggest load of scumbags and white trash there has ever been. Hitler had the right idea — he would have done away with the likes of you. I hate radical feminists and that hate has been even more strengthened by being on here with idiots and morons like you and your acolytes.’

Australia's Next Top Model Finale Photo Call
Charlotte Dawson Photo: Getty

I must say that I was fair hugging myself with glee by now, for I am not, to put it mildly, a blushing violet of any shade. I am not even a Charlotte Dawson, whose snarky carapace hides a soft exterior. I am tough as old boots. I honestly find it hard to care what my loved ones think of me; the idea that I would care what one-handed, half-witted strangers think of me is even more of a stretch. And though it’s awful when it happens to young girls, whose hormones are all over the show, I can’t help thinking that grown women shouldn’t react with such hoop-skirted uproar when aforementioned inadequates demonstrate their inferiority by calling them names and threatening them with a fate worse than death. From where I’m sitting, the only fate worse than death these poor seat-sniffers could inflict would be extreme boredom. And really bad punctuation.

After a few hours of being told that the Police were about to Knock on my Door (Krazy Kapitals are Katching) and drag Me away for Hate Crimes Galore, I lost patience and phoned the rozzers myself, always keen to meet Trouble halfway. After I’d given them my name and contact details, the charming lady asked me for a brief summary of the online bitch-fight. When I came to the bit about the Hells Angels and Hitler Being Right, there was a sharp intake of breath from Hate Crimes.

‘Let me stop you there, Julie, because this is starting to sound like you should be the one filing a complaint.’ ‘I won’t, thank you, as I’m not a cry-baby. But can I file one if this person really has done and I get arrested?’ ‘Of course you can! It’s never too late to report a hate crime.’

I went back to the fray refreshed and soon had Michelle the Dame deleting posts left, right and centre: Hitler and the Hells Angels would have to try another day.

As poor Charlotte Dawson’s case proves, these creatures can occasionally corner and destroy. But if you feel loved in your personal life, and sure of your beliefs in your public life — which I do, in spades — it’s hard to be hurt by the abuse of strangers. On the contrary, I find it rather bracing, like a swim in an icy pool on a sleepy morning. Like brass-rubbing and anal sex, online scrapping is not for everyone. But for a few of us articulate, secure types, it has opened up a whole new wonderland of verbalicious viciousness.

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Show comments
  • MC73

    Great to see JB on the Speccie! Although it will lead to a radical change of demographic, ie half the online hits will come from deranged trannies. Will we see the advertiser profile change in response?

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Don’t worry, the Spectator, you needn’t change your advertiser profile, the “deranged trannies”* are unlikely to be back. *”Words have power, like it or

      not. This fact was recognized by the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network’s “Think Before You Speak”campaign, which tackled the phrase “that’s so gay.” Most of us acknowledge that’s a phrase that should be

      banished from the lexicon because it equates being gay with being stupid or

      strange. But what about the harm caused to trans youth when the word tranny is equated with someone who’s a “mess?”

      http://www.advocate.com/politics/commentary/2012/01/27/oped-t-word-hasnt-changed-we-have

  • https://twitter.com/TittyOShea Flaming Fairy

    Hahaha – thanks for the pseudonym namecheck, JB!

    • Lesley Ann Sharrock

      You might possibly gain a little more respect for you opinions if you had the balls (sorry) to use your actual name, mate.

      • Julie Burchill Raven

        Lesley, FF is the BEST!

        • Lesley Ann Sharrock

          Okay, sorry to be snarky, but still feel that hiding behind pseudonyms lessens any arguments. I mean, just how many personas do some people have? You may think you are battling against a crowd when in fact it is just two deranged individuals. No offence to FF who I’m now assured is gorgeous.

          • La Fold

            To be fair Lesley, Flaming Fairy was one of the few sensible people posting. Some went completely Tonto and off the reservation.

          • Fergus Pickering

            It did OK for Voltaire.

          • Lesley Ann Sharrock

            However, it is unlikely that anyone is likely to end up
            incarcerated in the Bastille for writing hit-and-run remarks on the Internet. François-Marie Arouet had already spoken up in his real name beforehand.

          • Kitty MLB

            Oi You, For some its not actually
            ‘Hiding’ behind a pseudonym,
            it might be a nic name
            because some have certain characteristics-
            Just saying,it means you come across
            some spooky characters at times,
            such as William Blakes ghost-
            He posts on conhome.

          • Lesley Ann Sharrock

            Perhaps I should use ‘Oi You’ as a pseudonym? Nah… on second thoughts, I’ll stick to who I am (photo and all) and take any flack that comes my way like a grown-up.

          • Philip Rose

            ‘flak’, you ignoramus!

          • Kitty MLB

            I am always guilty of many a typo.

          • Philip Rose

            So am J

          • Lesley Ann Sharrock

            Typo, sunshine, typo. Prick!!!!

          • Philip Rose

            Ha ha! Really? You can edit it, you know, or are you such a douche-bag that you didn’t know that? And sticks and stones….lol

          • Philip Rose

            Did you find that empowering?

        • https://twitter.com/TittyOShea Flaming Fairy

          Aw thanks JB

        • Doggie Roussel

          Great airbrushing… I can only see three chins…

        • Sarka

          Seconded.

      • https://twitter.com/TittyOShea Flaming Fairy

        I think there’s a very good argument for online anonymity. And how do you know this ISN’T my real name. What is a “real name” anyway? Identity is fluid, not static and the person I am here is not the person I am elsewhere.

        😀

        • sarah_13

          JB’s article is excellent and I thought it was kind of her to single you out for a mention! We do need more with her “balls”. I can’t believe she has the patience to engage with people who don’t appear to have the intellect to comprehend anything beyond themselves but I’m very glad she does. The punctuation retort is brilliant and fear wasted on her opponent.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        When your e-mail is hacked and messages deleted, or when nutters call you at home in the middle of the night, you might change your mind on internet anonymity.
        The woods are full of cyber space nutters. Trust me on this.

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          You are Jackthesmilingblack and I am Trans Fan and Proud.

    • La Fold

      And here was me thinking id done well by getting an up vote from Julie Birchall and being called an arse by Rod Liddle in the same week.

      • Noa

        Ditto!

  • Lesley Ann Sharrock

    Give ’em hell, girl. This lot aren’t even as tough as the playground bullies we faced-down when we were kids. Back in the days when your mum would say ‘Don’t come crying to me. Hit them back. Just hit them harder.’

    • John Lea

      Is this the same Julie Burchill who abandoned her kids? Oh, sorry, can’t say that, may be perceived as being judgmental and bullying!

      • Lesley Ann Sharrock

        What the hell does anyone’s past have to do with this discussion? Now that is childish playground tactics, as in ‘You wet yourself in class once, nyer nyer, ne nyer yer!’ Grow up.

        • Julie Burchill Raven

          Cheers, hon, but I’m used to be judged by tools who have NO IDEA what went on in my first and my second marriages. Suffice it to say that had they found themselves in my position, they too might have legged it!

          • chrispatten

            I often disagree with you but any oaf who channels his inner Daily Mail to mine the worst mummy in Engerland trope, isn’t mature enough to play with the grown ups.

          • John Lea

            Aw, your sob story would bring a tear to a glass eye. You admitted yourself on national radio that you abandoned your kids, and that you couldn’t care less. I’m sure the kiddies will listen to your Desert Island Disk recording one day and it’ll cheer their little hearts. But you’ll probably be too busy drinking yourself stupid down the Groucho, you selfish old boot.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            I’ve been there three times in the past two decades, you shrivelled old ass-hat!

          • LizLox

            He’s got ‘asshat’ and I’m still waiting for my insult to be clarified. That’s patent discrimination and, as he’s a man, I think you are bowing down to the patriarchy which blights our society. I may have to report you to the police or, failing that, the Equal Opportunities Commission.

          • rebell50

            Great to see you back with your column. When will the Independent be getting you back, we miss you.

          • LizLox

            I don’t think any newspaper in the world ‘s ‘big enough’ to house both Paris Lees and Julie Burchill! 😉

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            I think they’ll be FOLDING quite soon. Or so rumour has it.

          • John Lea

            Bet you hate the fact that Tony Parsons sells more books than you eh?

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            Would I like to sell as many books as Tony? YES, YOU BET. Would I be willing to write the Mills-&-Boon-with-legovers swill he churns out in order to do so? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!

        • John Lea

          ‘Grow up’. Rather funny (and pathetic) coming from a boring middle-aged woman who abandons her critical faculties – if you ever had any to begin with, Ms Sharrock – in order to worship at the altar of Julie Burchill. You should get a life, as they say.

          • Lesley Ann Sharrock

            Fuck you, sunshine.

      • chrispatten

        Grow up. Go back to reading your copies of razzle that you’ve hidden from the wife.

        • John Lea

          Or f*cking what? You pussy-whipped mong. Stop sucking up to crap slebs who would probably despise you if they actually met you, realising how boring and awful you are. Knob.

          • chrispatten

            You know why you feel scared and unloved, because you should be frightened and you’re unlovable. You use the crass USA ‘pussy whipped’ just like they do in the movies that let you pretend you’re not completely inadequate. As for calling someone a ‘mong’, share it with your sun-reading ilk. Is redundancy scaring you most at the moment, the rough boys on the street or that Mummy left you?

          • John Lea

            Think you need to work on your grammar (especially your use of capital letters). But then you’re a pussy-whipped mong, so perhaps not your fault eh.

          • chrispatten

            So Daddy said to you, ‘we’ll be okay without her’ but then it spiralled out of control. You ended up hating women, the disabled and be honest, yourself. Why do they all leave you?

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            He hasn’t answered! Probably too busy tossing off and being left.

          • Ermintrude

            Did you get lost on the way to the Daily Mail comments, John Lea, or are you simply another person empowered by the Internet to act like a small pouty brat online? This article is about a dead woman, not you and your empty life.

          • LizLox

            Don’t agree with John’s language as I said but the article is more about Ms Burchill enjoying a good scrap online, hence the heading.

          • Ermintrude

            I focused on the part that mattered to me – that trolls made someone take her life.

          • LizLox

            OK.

          • LizLox

            Chris, I don’t agree with John’s language either but, to be fair, I don’t think it’s any more offensive than the language Ms Burchill has used about transexuals Perhaps you don’t agree?

          • chrispatten

            I think that SM and JB were totally wrong in responding to abuse in kind. JB rightly highlights that 2 women a week are murdered by partners in the UK; that makes SM failing to register the death toll of trans brazilians especially heinous. When it comes to that other poster, he should be outed, though.

          • LizLox

            Thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond, Chris. I agree and would only add that, for me, the abuse and violence suffered by and the murder of transexuals in general, not just in Brazil, makes JB’s choice of terminology for and about them equally heinous. So I think we are mainly in agreement. Where we categorically agree is the language used by John in his posts. We might not be able to prevent offensive terms but, as you say, we can ‘out’ those using them. Thanks again for your reply. Best wishes.

          • Natasha

            Per capita, trans murders & suicides far out number “2 women a week are murdered by partners in the UK”…

          • Fergus Pickering

            Ia a mong a mongol, then? Dear me!

          • LizLox
          • Fergus Pickering

            What’s a mong? I know what a knob is.

          • Noa

            A mong is short for mongol, like ‘spas’, ‘spasser,’ or ‘tard, schoolyard slang terms which are no longer politically correct, so have been outlawed and fallen into general disuse. They have been replaced by even more perjorative terms like ‘UKipper’ and ‘Conservative’, (but not a Cameron conservative).

          • Fergus Pickering

            Not a term for grown-ups then. I find that cunt always answers.

        • Daidragon

          Razzle? So 70’s.

          • chrispatten

            Thanks! Read ‘Jake’s Thing’ by Kingsley Amis. That’ll help to explain some of the poor individual’s problems.

    • Fergus Pickering

      That was the advice of the vampire to the boy, wasn’t it? Of course she bit their heads off for him in the end. What love will do!

      • Philip Rose

        Blimey! I thought this sort of stuff was for 12 year olds. Knob and mong? I mean, seriously, dudes and dudettes. I can only guess that the Spectator hands out awards for ‘most comments’ each week. Well done, Julie, for proving yet again that hatred and vitriol aimed towards you somehow equates with popularity or the importance of what you have to say.

        • Fergus Pickering

          Well of course it does. The truth always attracts hatred and vitriol. Or is that what you are saying? Your totured syntax is difficult to unravel.

          • Philip Rose

            ‘totured’ – can you define that, please?

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            or ‘truth’?

    • Daidragon

      Shut the fuck up you ugly ginger minged cow. ooo that was liberating. I see what you mean now. Hate is fun!!!!

  • MDH64

    Well played Julie!

  • Maverick Ways

    Your over-liberal use of the capital K is truly Kafkaesque.

  • Noa

    I’m an ageing traditional male from the north, a dinosour who looks with wide eyed wonder through the multi-gender sex shop window at the customers and contents within. It’s not my intersection and so I’m happy to cross the street and leave the other sexes to it, regardless of the almost incomprehensible rights and wrongs of this surreal slap and tickle.

    Then the key issue struck me, really really leapt out of the page. It was the police comment
    “It’s never too late to report a hate crime.”
    My God. It’s finally come to this, thanks to the madness of the Labour thought laws, any thoughts and words, to which some loon takes objection, flung over the cyber medium, are now liable to be adjudicated at any and for all time, by a righteous subjective PC plod who may refer them for trial and sentencing.
    Will this get better? That depends on what one means. There will be more of it. A whole lot more. What Google, Facebook and Twitter give with one post will be taken away by another. Until all that we will be able to do is post one unending, incomprehensible, self censored screech at the world.

    • La Fold

      The same zoomer then threatened to get their ex bouncer Hells Angel boyfriend to beat everyone up. Somehow I doubt we were dealing with the sharpest hammer in the fridge.

      • Noa

        Agreed, the threat of violence raised the ante, made the situation potentially violent, But tragically, that’s not what attracted the interest of the police.

        • La Fold

          In the parlance of todays modern urban youth, True Dat.

    • SimonToo

      And yet, in hands more capable than mine, we have in “

      • Noa

        Sadly, true dat.

      • adn8

        “No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!”

    • http://www.gravatar.com/bonzeblayk/ Bonze Anne Rose Blayk

      “now liable to be adjudicated at any and for all time, by a righteous subjective PC plod who can and will refer them for trial and sentencing.”

      – What, you don’t even get the courtesy of having a -committee- of righteous subjective PC plods ass-ess your case before referring you?

      PS: Many universities in America have likewise succumbed to this disease, so GOD HELP US.

    • ghanderman

      in the commission of genocide, there have been a number of pre-conditions that have been recognized to be critical factors in whether or not a given society is, in fact, capable of mobilizing its citizens to behave in genocidal ways. one of these factors is whether or not there is present within the given society a consistent occurrence of hate speech against a given vulnerable population which is the first step toward a “direct and public incitement to commit genocide”. all of the west is so quick to say “never again” in reference to the holocaust and other instances of past genocides, yet so unwilling to do the actual work required to make sure of it.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        absolutely

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Socialist.

        Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

        Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Jew.

        Then they came for the transexuals, and I did not speak out- Because I was not a transexual.

        Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.

        • Duke_Bouvier

          Of course, quite often it is the Socialists who are doing the “coming for”. But this kind of smug cant makes them feel special I suppose.

          The real list today would would have to start with smokers, who people who put Jesus and Mo cartoons on t-shirts, and small business owners in Venezuela.

          I am none of these, yet…

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Transphobic bullying is a blight on society.

        • George Scoresby

          Then they came for the pedants…and they found so many that they went away again.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Embracing that insult: Pedantic Trans Fan and Proud!

          • George Scoresby

            It wasn’t meant as an insult, it was meant as a description.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            For we are many! 😉

          • Minicapt

            As are bacteria.

            Cheers

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Indeed, and bacteria are essential to our vitality and well-being. Cheers. 🙂

  • philiphuw

    Spot on Julie. Too many adults in this country are bursting into tears every ten seconds and phoning the police when they receive abusive texts or tweets. People need to find some backbone. Also, why are we locking up cretins for writing down words and distributing them on social media? We don’t even lock up some violent criminals who’ve actually done physical harm. 2013 will be seen as the year free speech died in the UK. As long as ones words do not incite violence or racial hatred etc, one should be allowed to say or write anything without fearing a knock on the door from the thought police. The answer to a cretin’s poor argument or insult is to come up with a better argument, not to phone 999. Free speech means sometimes having to read or hear stuff we find abhorrent. Sounds bad, but the alternative is far worse.

    • Lesley Ann Sharrock

      Though, of course, Mark Twain’s advice was
      ‘Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.’

  • Will Honeycomb

    I don’t think I’d want to take Julie Burchill on- she sounds utterly fearless.

    Consider this, for example:

    “Meanwhile, over at the Spectator website, myself and a band of recently assembled cyber-chums… were going at it hammer, tongs…”

    And in the very next paragraph she tells us she’s married to a merciless mutha of a copiously capitalised grammarian. Julie: don’t go home. He’s going to go all medieval on your grammar.

    Myself is going to steer clear of crossing Chopper Burchill.

    • Noa

      Courage mon brave! Only nutjobs should fear the Burchill gelding knives.

  • Doggie Roussel

    But for a few of us articulate, secure types, it has opened up a whole new wonderland of verbalicious viciousness.

    Send for the shrinks !

  • LizLox

    I was involved in the discussion on The Spectator website and would like to offer my observations. I’d like to preface them by saying that I take full ownership of the following, these are my feeling based on my value systems Anyone is entitled to have their own views but that does not invalidate my right to mine. What I am writing comes not from a position of hate but rather respect for and acceptance of transexualsIf anyone wishes to respond to this post, can I ask you to do so by commenting on a fresh post rather than relying to this one. If you reply direct, those replies come into my email system and I don’t want that for now. I am numbering my observations to make it easier for anyone to refer to this if they so wish.

    1. To put all of the recent debate on The Spectator website in context, I want to go back in time to Suzanne Moore’s original article. In an article for The New Statesman, I believe, she wrote:

    “[Women] are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being
    loved properly and not having the ideal body shape – that of a Brazilian
    transsexual.”

    She then defended her use of the phrase “Brazilian transsexual” – which many considered to be offensive – not least because Brazil has an appalling record on transphobic hate crime.

    During a heated exchange with twitter user @jonanamary, Moore
    defended her use of the word, before finally tweeting: “People can just
    fuck off really. Cut their dicks off and be more feminist than me. Good
    for them.”

    Now, I understand that Suzanne Moore was subject to some vile, abusive comments and I no way defend anyone behaving like that. However, I can understand where their anger came from. If one extends the freedom of speech argument, one could argue that those offended had every right to say what they did. If one says: I can say what I want and if someone is offended, that’s their problem, again one could argue that those responding to what Suzanne Moore said had every right to be offensive. I say again, I don’t condone what was said but it seems there are sometimes double standards when looking at issues such as freedom of speech and the right to offend.

    2. Ms Burchill, understandably riled by the treatment of her friend wrote an article for The Observer. The article was subsequently removed by The Observer but was published on The Telegraph blog. The link is here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100198116/here-is-julie-burchills-censored-observer-article/

    The article defended her friend but, in doing so, used further derogatory language about transexuals. Ms Burchill used terms and said things like: “a bunch of dicks in chick’s clothing” “trannies. (I know that’s a wrong word, but having recently discovered
    that their lot describe born women as ‘Cis’ – sounds like syph, cyst,
    cistern; all nasty stuff – they’re lucky I’m not calling them shemales.
    Or shims.”, “a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs”, ” Shims, shemales, whatever you’re calling yourselves these days – don’t threaten or bully we lowly natural-born women, I warn you”.

    My judgement is that this language is derogatory, offensive and provocative. We have derogatory, offensive and provocative language in our vocabulary for a reason: to put people down, to offend and to provoke. Is it so surprising that the article did all this? The Observer recognised their mistake in publishing it and, as I said earlier, withdrew it.

    3. We come to the latest article by Ms Burchill. A link for it is here for anyone who hasn’t read it: http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9141292/dont-you-dare-tell-me-to-check-my-privilege/. Now, Ms Burchill still angry about her friend’s treatment and, in addition angry about what happened with er Observer article, decides to continue to offend transexuals. The second part of The Spectator article is a rehash of the arguments put forward in The Observer. She calls transexuals “a bunch of dicks in chicks’ clothing” and talks of “their major beautification operations”.

    4. The reason I have gone into detail in the above is that it provides a background to what happened on the comments site following publication of the recent article. I agree that one trans woman was intimidating and threatening and don’t condone her behaviour in the slightest. But real anger had been provoked by what looked like a sustained assault on transexuals. You might argue that they were just words but words influence thought influence action. Ms Burchill admits that she and her friends were engaging with this woman and from what I read, they were baiting her, or feeding the troll as it were. Ms Burchill was discussing all of this on her Facebook page and egging people on to join in. This trans woman was belittled and I was verbally abused by a woman who thought I shouldn’t have any sympathy with the trans woman (who she declared was a man) and stick up for real women.

    To conclude, it is easy to generate hate on the internet. Articles that contain offensive, provocative language are likely to do that. People have the right to offend and people have the right to be offended. One can’t predict the exact nature of someone’s offence.

  • Doggie Roussel

    I think that the then head waitress at the Groucho Club, Deborah Bosley,, described this strange woman as, “a fat bird in a blue mac sitting in the corner” when ensconced at the Groucho. Perhaps summing up this attention-seeking nonentity the best.

    • LizLox

      Ha ha, Doggie, hadn’t heard that before. Not really into fattist comments but perhaps, having put up with Ms Burchill’s trans denying stance for days on end, I’m allowed a small smile at someone having a go at her! Attention-seeking is bang on. She wrote the article seeking attention and she got. It’s not rocket science and it’s not quality journalism. It’s clickbait journalism, well-written clickbait journalism maybe, but the end result is about provoking a response. You take good care.

    • lulabel5

      An over-the-hill, middle-class, privately-educated waitress, who fucked an older man (the editor of The Oldie mag) then stopped her high-flying career as a waitress at a members club to marry him, live off his money in his house in the countryside, then got depressed at having nothing to do and wrote worst-selling whiney book about it, judges working-class, successful, independent Julie Birchill for her appearance rather than what she could do or say…is not the best person to be quoting really, is she?

      • Julie Burchill Raven

        O, LULABEL! Took the words right out of my mouth!

        • LizLox

          You have my word, Julie, that I’ll never judge you on your appearance! And I respect what you’ve achieved. I may continue, though, to comment on what you say! And, actually, I think you like people to do so (not the same thing as liking the people who do so). Yours sincerely troll/tool/asshat.

      • Doggie Roussel

        I thought she summed up the old bag perfectly !

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          Opposing transphobia in the media.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      End transphobia. End of.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Mental illness in cyber space would make an interesting study as a higher education thesis. Start with “George Smiley” who has told me at least 100 times that I’m Japanese. Then examine the culpability of mainstream publications like the Spectator, who keep the nutter around for laughs. This amounts to a “mock the afflicted” policy.

    • LizLox

      Who is ‘the nutter’ in this case, Jackthesmilingblack?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        See above.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Paedophile, living in an Internet cafe, guard at a Japanese WWII PoW camp (must have been a previous existence), and of course being Japanese, like only 100 times. Plus being told the Japan Alps don’t exist and the Trans-Siberian train (which I rode in 1970) wasn’t operating in the 1970s. Many other easily disproved assertions on a daily basis. But UK MSM publications such as the Spectator keep the nutter around for laughs, irrespective of how this damages their reputation as a serious publication.

    • LizLox

      Er, who is ‘the nutter’ in this case, Jackthesmilingblack?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Jonathan D. MacDonald, latest user name “George Smiley” of Rochdale. Check the Rochdale Phone Book, available on line.
        Thanks for the second bite of the cherry opportunity, Liz.

        • LizLox

          What’s he got to do with The Spectator?!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            The Spectator facilitates this deranged person by providing a forum.
            Known as keeping the nutter around for laughs, which almost certainly exacerbates his mental health problems.
            Jack, Nepal

          • LizLox

            Yes, I feel that the woman mentioned in Ms Burchill’s article had psychological problems. I wanted no part in taunting her. I didn’t condone her threats and language and told her so at the end. But I saw no benefit in and would have got no enjoyment from engaging with her in the unedifying exchange that took place. Thanks for the background, Jackthesmilingblack.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Sad losers, unable to confront their miserable existence as an abject failure, sometimes fall back on scapegoating, where they engage in a personality reversal. So when I’m told that I’m unmarried, living with parents, no car, unemployed and unemployable, I suspect the writer is describing himself. The obsession in ascribing an alternative race and nationality is a little more complicated, so still looking for a chink in Jock’s armour.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    I’m gratified to see so many women commenting on this topic. Assuming most reside in UK, it may be difficult for many to see the wood from the trees. Specifically, to realise just what a poisonous environment Britain has become. A nation of bullies is hardly an exaggeration. So your options are to give as good as you get and in the process becoming the kind of person you wouldn’t entertain in the woodshed, become a borderline recluse as you are pushed ever further to the periphery of society, or fly the coop to a less hostile environment. Spoilt for choice I venture to suggest, as I never visited a country as hostile as Britain.
    Jack, Nepal

    • LizLox

      Hello again Jackthesmilingblack, I certainly wouldn’t entertain Ms Burchill in a woodshed!

  • Coleridge1

    So thrilled to see Julie Burchill in the Spectator. I might actually renew my subscription.

  • Julie Burchill Raven

    I am VERY pleased to announce that I will now be featured regularly in The Spectator. A big fat THANK YOU to my supporters – and an even bigger one to my detractors ;-0

    • LizLox

      I neither need nor want any thanks from you, Ms Burchill. I’ve just read a piece in The Spectator by Toby Young where he uses his own views aboiut Harriet Harman to cast aspersions on her mental health. In my view, he has also deliberately twisted the meaning of a couple of documents to suit his views. So, quite frankly, I’m not surprised that a publication with such low moral standards has chosen to give you a regular feature. The person below says that are so thrilled to see you in The Spectator they might actually renew their subscription. If The Spectator were the last reading material left on the planet, I wouldn’t part with my money to buy it. Reading your articles online, however, will be free so I may pop back from time to time to see what deliberately provocative stuff you are spouting. It’s seems bizarre that you write a hateful piece for The Spectator, you receive one hateful response, you get commissioned to write a piece on hate on the internet on the back of it, then you get a regular column. I may be, in your words, an ‘asshat’ but I’m I’m an asshat that has principles. In my own narrow-minded and blinkered world that counts for something. In Paris Lees’ excellent piece in the quality publication The Independent she says: “Sadly, listening isn’t a strong point for Burchill and her friend
      [writer, feminist and Justice for Women co-founder] Julie Bindel who,
      just like those who try to force people to stop being gay, insist that
      people like me should stop being trans.” i ask you again: is this your position?

      • SimonToo

        Clearly The Independent has the proper quality for you and you should not sully yourself with The Spectator. You would not wish to become known as one of its keen readers.

        • LizLox

          As I said, I may pop back from time to time to read online articles. Sometimes, it is useful to know what people with whom you vehemently disagree are saying. Don’t you agree? It’s a bit self-limiting to only read material that confirms one’s own thinking. Re: The Independent, at the end of June 2010 it was announced Ms Burchill would be writing exclusively for The Independent, contributing a weekly full-page column for the paper. The connection lasted less than 18 months. So, if you were being sarcastic about the quality of The Independent, perhaps you should ask Ms Burchill why she chose to write for them?

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            When the Independent folds, as it will very soon, the Spectator will still be here after several centuries.

          • LizLox

            My comments about both publications stand. You are entitled to ply your trade in any way you want, and will do.

          • Noa

            That’s because intersecting hordes of all genders and sexes decided to beat you with clubs for being a terminally boring, repetitious idiot.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Broken record technique. Trust threat of violence is a rhetorical device?

            Terminally Boring, Repetitious Idiot and Proud.

          • Noa

            Good on ya, there’s always room in the closet for another bore!

    • Daidragon

      Fuck sakes you’ll be opening a free school next.

      • LizLox

        Quite possibly, she’s mates with Toby Young…

        • Julie Burchill Raven

          I’ve seen Toby maybe three times in twenty years!

          • LizLox

            That’s probably as well then ;). OK, I’ll amend my statement to the fact that you both write for The Spectator and he published your removed Observer article in his Telegraph blog. You’ll correct me if I’m wrong on either of those two statement! Have a nice day!

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            You too. Sorry if I was a brat! I’m way too old to behave that way now.

          • LizLox

            Apology accepted, just don’t unblock me on Facebook!

          • LizLox

            While we have declared a truce, Julie,can I ask you something. Before I do, can I clarify what I’m not asking! I’m not asking you to check your privilege. I’m not asking you to curb your freedom of speech. I’m not asking you to retract or apologise for anything you have said. All I would ask is that, if you do believe that transexuals have the right to be as they, that you think about the language you’re using before you use it. Please don’t feel the need to respond. I’m not asking you to commit to anything. Plus, if your response is to tell me to F*** off, I’m not sure I have the energy to survive another day of exchanging blows with you. You’ve said what you needed to, I hope, about what happened with Suzanne. Perhaps we can all move on? Take care – and a grudging good luck with your new column!

          • LizLox

            Hi, Julie, just to say, from my side, it would be safe for you to unblock me on Facebook if you so wished. I’ve said everything I intend saying on this subject now (you’ll be pleased to hear!). You may not want to welcome back into the fold but, if you do I should be pleased. You are good fun most of the time! Anyway, your call. No need to reply here. Take care.

          • LizLox

            Hello again, Julie, just been looking at all of this and I’d like to say sorry for being a pompous ass! Please see my comment to ‘trapezium’ near the top of this feed for a partial explanation re: my borderline personality disorder. It may or may not be a minor point to my credit that I didn’t bang about your less than flattering reference to BPD in your last article. Too busy being a ‘bedwetting cheerleader’ or some such thing! Anyhow, what to do, it’s all down here in black and white for the world to see. I don’t regret the meaning of what I said but I could, perhaps, have been less inflexible in the way I said it. I think my partner, Helen would like to ban me from these sites in future for my own good! Enjoy what’s left of the weekend. Pip, pip.

          • LizLox

            please cancel that comment about unblocking, too fragile,sorry, wasn’t a game for me on here, now I seem to have made an even bigger twat of myself talking about BPD, sorry anyhow

          • Fergus Pickering

            I think someone said that before.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Seems that it needs repeating, Fergus. Ms Burchill has repeated her comments about transexuals (Guardian, Observer, Spectator).

            Trans Fan and Proud

  • LizLox

    FORTY THREE!

    • Julie Burchill Raven

      But LizLox, the troll-count matters not now! Game played, gig got, job done! And thank you SO much for your part in it. MWAH!

      • LizLox

        I hope you are not calling me a troll, nor the vast majority of people who commented on your original piece. Re: your ‘thanks’, I can only repeat what I said in my reply below:

        I neither need nor want any thanks from you, Ms Burchill. I’ve just read
        a piece in The Spectator by Toby Young where he uses his own views
        aboiut Harriet Harman to cast aspersions on her mental health. In my
        view, he has also deliberately twisted the meaning of a couple of
        documents to suit his views. So, quite frankly, I’m not surprised that a
        publication with such low moral standards has chosen to give you a
        regular feature. The person below says that are so thrilled to see you
        in The Spectator they might actually renew their subscription. If The
        Spectator were the last reading material left on the planet, I wouldn’t
        part with my money to buy it. Reading your articles online, however,
        will be free so I may pop back from time to time to see what
        deliberately provocative stuff you are spouting. It’s seems bizarre that
        you write a hateful piece for The Spectator, you receive one hateful
        response, you get commissioned to write a piece on hate on the internet
        on the back of it, then you get a regular column. I may be, in your
        words, an ‘asshat’ but I’m I’m an asshat that has principles. In my own
        narrow-minded and blinkered world that counts for something. In Paris
        Lees’ excellent piece in the quality publication The Independent she
        says: “Sadly, listening isn’t a strong point for Burchill and her friend

        [writer, feminist and Justice for Women co-founder] Julie Bindel who,
        just like those who try to force people to stop being gay, insist that
        people like me should stop being trans.” I ask you again: is this your position?

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        ‘But we believe transphobia is still a massive problem in our
        communities – online and off. Just ask any transperson what life is like for them and you’ll see what I mean.

        Like Army Chief David Morrison says: “If you become aware of any
        individual degrading another, then show moral courage and take a stand against it.”’

    • Julie Burchill Raven

      And ‘MOST READ’!

      • LizLox

        What is that comment in response to, Ms Burchill? Whatever you are talking about you haven’t addressed the query about whether or not you consider me and the vast majority of people who commented on your original article to be trolls. If that’s how you see most people who comment on your articles, I’m sure people who are thinking of joining in would like to know that this is your opinion of them. Finally, you have still not addressed the point made by Paris Lees on your position regarding transexuals.

        • Julie Burchill Raven

          I dislike your humourless, hectoring, lecturing tone. But my answer would be that I like EVERYONE until such time as they prove themselves a TROLL, a TOOL or an ASS-HAT. Pip pip!

          • LizLox

            And I dislike your the provocative, insensitive, transphobic content of what you have written. So perhaps that makes me quits> I can assure you that much of the time I can be light-hearted and humorous. But I take what you have written in your two recent articles seriously. I am entitled to use this comment space in any way I wish and if you dislike what I say and how I say it, I could say that that is your problem. Could I clarify if you are now calling me either a troll or an ass-hat, just so I know which insult is being thrown at me. I repeat that you have still not addressed the point made by Paris Lees. If you consider this to be hectoring, I am only being obliged to repeat myself because you have avoided answering what is a valid question in light of the language you have used about transexuals.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            You’re obviously DESPERATE to be offended, so choose the word you want. And oif there’s one way of making sure I don’t engage with you, it’s by adopting such a humourless, hectoring, lecturing tone. So you may want to *check* that, and rephrase the question

          • LizLox

            I’m not desperate to be offended, merely curious to know which term of abuse you are directing at me. So, I don’t intend choosing, you should really clarify what you mean as you used the language. I don’t intend being bullied by you on this comments page and, as I said, I am entitled to use whatever tone I like, What I don’t intend doing, however much provoked, is using abuse against anyone on here.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            Until I care for your tone, I shan’t clarify. Take it or leave it, no sweat off MY sacs!

          • LizLox

            That’s up to you, Ms Burchill. I don’t intend being dictated to by you as to how I phrase my comments on here. This is a public forum and, unless I am doing something illegal, I am entitled to have my say. If my comments are offensive to you, and you really think you have a case, then take it up with your new employers to get them removed. Until then, I will say what I like how I like. I think it’s clear that you were directing one of those terms at me and you now are not prepared to say which. It is not for you, as the author of the article, to prescribe how readers respond. As I said before, if you don’t like my tone, that could be said to be your problem not mine. You still have addressed the question regarding your position on transexuals and your continued refusal to do so can only lead me to draw my own conclusions. I am not on here to crack jokes for your amusement, I am here to comment on what I believe to be serious issues. I regret the fact that you don’t understand that.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            PLEASE draw your own conclusions! And rest assured that I don’t give a RAT’S ASS what you think of me.

          • LizLox

            I have drawn my own conclusion and it is that you are a ‘trans denier’. Now, if you choose not to refute that here, that is up to you. I leave others then to draw their own conclusions too. I have no problem with you not giving a ‘RAT’S ASS’ what I think of you. I am not here to win your approval. As I’ve said, while you are the author of this piece, it is not your job to police this forum or to put pressure on people to bend their comments to your liking.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            ABSOLUTELY! As I told that crazed trans bigot Michelle ‘Hitler Was Right’ Burrows last week.

          • LizLox

            What? Absolutely you are a ‘trans denier’? I must have missed that in the exchange but thank you for answering the question.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            Mate, the day I care half a rat’s ass what either you or Paris Lees thinks of me is the day I quit! And I’m NOT quitting. Draw your own conclusions from that. Have a great, fun-filled weekend!

          • LizLox

            You’ve just said that ‘absolutely’ you’re a trans denier, I don’t need to draw any conclusions from that statement. So thanks for answering the question at last It explains a lot about what you’ve written. As I said earlier, you’ve already established that I’m not your mate So feel free to address me by whichever term of abuse you choose, it’s water off the proverbial duck’s back! Toodle pip.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            Na, I just couldn’t follow your drift. I don’t deny anyone’s right to be whatever they like. So long as they don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses! MWAH!

          • LizLox

            What no troll, tool or asshat?! I’ve got a bet on with someone who shall remain nameless that it’s ‘tool’ Do let me know, darling! Ta for your denial that you’re a denier, I’ll amend my article. L8ers!

          • LizLox

            Oh yeah, meant to say, cheers for the FB block. Was popping over to your page to block it for the sake of my sanity and couldn’t access it – so hurrah! Blocked by Julie Burchill, result: much kudos and respect from FB friends. It was fun while it lasted and, if I ever feel nostalgic, I can always play this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZLLPaX4SS4

          • LizLox

            I’m sure Paris Lees will be pleased to have her suspicions confirmed, so thanks again. Pip pip!

          • LizLox

            ah, I see I missed the word ‘tool’, so are you calling me a troll, a tool or an ass-hat?

          • lulabel5

            (Talking to yourself now MATE; time for your medication or a stiff G&T and a lie-down n’est pas?!)

          • LizLox

            Eh, I was talking to Julie! Anyway, me and her are all good now, thanks. Btw, I’m teetotal, having given up alcohol over 10 years ago, and have just had my meds for depression and anxiety. And I am indeed now having a lie-down while I come on here. Just thought I’d share all that with you, lulabel15. Have a good weekend.

          • LizLox

            it’s n’est-ce pas… innit

          • LizLox

            Just an observation really, I think the tone of your writing is hectoring and lecturing. I concede that some people may find it funny even though I find the subject matter too serious for me to laugh at it. So, hey ho!

        • dentshop

          Then the Socialists, Trade Unionists and transexuals were gone. Things were pretty good after that.

  • Julie Burchill Raven

    SIXTY, and MOST READ!

    • LizLox

      15 of these being mine, I wouldn’t want those to be indicative of any type of support

      • Julie Burchill Raven

        It’s all traffic, mate!

        • LizLox

          I think you’ve established the fact that I’m not your ‘mate’…

        • LizLox

          And I think 11 of them are yours.

  • CraigStrachan

    The Dame never had a look-in. You’ve been in training for this for years. I remember your fax fight with Paglia.

  • Blazeaway

    Marvellous work, Julie.
    Tell ’em where to get off

  • Heidi Sorensen-Maierhoffer

    I hope you know the slander laws in England… Oh, and Michelle-Louise could also, if she wanted to, go to the Police over your transphobic comments towards her…

    • Julie Burchill Raven

      Go on, then. Less talk, more walk!

    • LizLox

      Heidi, if she has a case, I’d advise Michelle-Louise to do that.

  • Heidi Sorensen-Maierhoffer

    Which constitues a “Hate Crime” more than her comment about Hitler… But, you go running to the Police. The fact you did makes you a crybaby in nearly everyone’s eyes and to run to the most bent, criminal and corrupt force in the country who Michelle-Louise is suing, makes you look like a clown.

    Dish it out but can’t take it when someone has the temerity to stand up to you. You’re a coward.

    • LizLox

      Hello again, Heidi I find myself in the strange position of defending Ms Burchill here. If you’ve read any of the toing and froing below, you will see I am not her favourite person (tool, troll or asshat to be determined by her). However, in the article, she says:

      After a few hours of being told that the Police were about to Knock
      on my Door (Krazy Kapitals are Katching) and drag Me away for Hate
      Crimes Galore, I lost patience and phoned the rozzers myself, always
      keen to meet Trouble halfway. After I’d given them my name and contact
      details, the charming lady asked me for a brief summary of the online
      bitch-fight. When I came to the bit about the Hells Angels and Hitler
      Being Right, there was a sharp intake of breath from Hate Crimes.

      ‘Let me stop you there, Julie, because this is starting to sound like
      you should be the one filing a complaint.’ ‘I won’t, thank you, as I’m
      not a cry-baby. But can I file one if this person really has done and I
      get arrested?’ ‘Of course you can! It’s never too late to report a hate
      crime.’”

      So, she didn’t go crying to the police,she preempted possible action from them as a result of Michelle-Louise’s complaints. As to whether or not a hate crime has been committed by Ms Burchill, offensive and provocative as I found her comments, I’m sure she’s covered her back. So, if you want to make her look ‘a clown’, I think you’re going to have to try harder. How’s all tat for a surprising statement coming from me!

      • Julie Burchill Raven

        Thank you for pointing that out, Liz. I have a real respect for you for standing up for an enemy – shows real integrity. I won’t be cheeking you anymore! Yes, I was THREATENED with the police for 24 hours – then tiring of the threats called them MYSELF to make sure they had my contact details should they wish to arrest or caution me. When they advised ME to file a hate crime complaint, I politely declined. DO keep up, Heidi, mate!

        • LizLox

          And, on this occasion, I’ll accept your thanks gracefully, Julie. Please understand that my humourless, hectoring, lecturing tone yesterday was a way of ‘checking’ any abuse. I’ve not resorted to that either on the comments facility for your previous article or here. And I don’t want to.

        • LizLox

          plus, I don’t see you as ‘an enemy’, just someone I disagree with strongly on one particular issue 🙂

  • LizLox

    Let’s get this up to 100! Julie, if you just pop in with one word: troll, tool or asshat – we’ll get there! Sleep well everyone and I look forward to reading more comments tomorrow.

    • Julie Burchill Raven

      ONE HUNDRED!

      • LizLox

        Cheat…I wanted to make a T shirt with ‘Julie Burchill called me a troll/tool/asshat’ on and now I can’t!

  • Granite Sentry

    “Hate Crime”? I’m going to recommend that everybody over there on your little island who has a brain get busy and abandon ship. The US has a few years yet before we join you in such idiocy — may as well spend them where the weather is nicer. I understand the southwestern border is the best way in if you don’t mind getting a little dusty.

    • JimHHalpert

      Are you following the Mann vs Steyn vs Mann case? You may have a few months rather than years left.

      • Granite Sentry

        Oh, my. Better have the staff pick up the pace on digging that escape tunnel under the bathtub, I guess.

  • Melissa Montana

    If those who worship at collectivism’s altar were not selfish, they would not defend the superstitions, illusions, and utopian fantasies conjured up to justify collectivism and the plunder upon which it depends.

  • George Smiley

    “Jackthesmilingblack:disqus ” is obviously some bilingual psychiatric inpatient or escapee in Japan with severe and untreated (or untreatable) Autism and OCD.

    • LizLox

      Ah, George Smiley, we meet at last! I’ve been hearing about you! Did you enjoy the article?

    • LizLox

      that’s odd, you’ve gone from being George Smiley to being ‘Guest’ – um!

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      This is the deranged cyber stalker I was referring to. How’s the weather in Rochdale, Jock?

  • Gary Walker

    When I was at junior school in the 1970s, sometimes a child would complain to one of the teachers if another child called them names. The teacher would take the offending child to one side and tell him or her not to be nasty and to stop calling others names. Upon graduating to secondary school and at about the age of 12 or 13, around about the 2nd year of school, any such complaints were usually met with a firm rebuttal along the lines of “you’re not a baby any more, you need to grow up, he’s only calling you names”.

    It seems that there are a sizeable proportion of people in our public institutions and in our press, who are hell-bent on transforming society’s rules of personal communications into something resembling a pre-pubescents’ school yard, albeit with much more sinister consequences for those who transgress these rules.

    Someone earlier mentioned something about “Labour thought laws”. When these incidents of name calling (or “hate crimes” if you’re prone to emoting) involve race, as they often do, the Act which the police use to charge transgressors, is the Race Relations Act 1987. Those who introduced that Act and most of those who voted it in, did not intend for it to be used by Left-leaning police officers to act like the Stasi. Although that Act has been on the statute for 27 years, it is only fairly recently that we have seen people being removed from their houses by police officers, to be remanded (in some cases) for swift justice and alarming punishment, for calling someone a “Paki”. What has brought this change about is not new laws, but a new culture within Britain’s institutions, including the Ministry of Justice and the Police. That culture is just the latest incarnation of the poison we know as “political correctness”.

    • LizLox

      Hi Gary. Political correctness can be defined as “the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived
      to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially
      disadvantaged or discriminated against.” To me, that sounds like a good thing to practice. I think that anyone who ‘name calls’ as an adult is the one who is taking that communication to the level of ‘the pre-pubescents’ school yard’. As to what action can be and is taken when such name calling takes place is, I think, something on which people will disagree. Julie has used some derogatory language about transexuals, first in The Observer and now here in The Spectator. No action has been taken against her for hate crimes so I think that disproves your notion that we are living a society where political correctness rules the roost. The hate speech laws in the UK are found in several statues as you probably know. For me, I guess it’s a question of ‘degrees’ where hate speech is concerned. If I were talking to someone and they referred to someone as a ‘Paki’, I would challenge them but would not report them to the police nor expect any criminal action to be taken against them. There’s an interesting article here about the use of the word ‘Paki’: http://www.asianimage.co.uk/columnists/10344450.Why_the_term__Paki__is__and_always_will_be_offensive/ If someone were saying something that was stirring up racial hatred, rather than be merely offensive, that would be a crime. You conclude your comments by talking about the culture in the UK. What I’d like to see is a culture of mutual respect and tolerance.

      • Gary Walker

        The problem Liz, is how intolerant you folks are proving, in striving for your (achingly clichéd) utopia of a “culture of mutual respect and tolerance”.

        • LizLox

          Hey Gary, trouble is I think intolerance breeds intolerance, and hatred breeds hatred.

          • trapezium

            Indeed, I despise your intolerance.

            I don’t even believe it’s motivated by an alleged desire for a “culture of mutual respect”.

          • LizLox

            No problem, trapezium, you’re entitled to your belief. I can only assure you, though, that my feelings are motivated by a desire for a culture of mutual respect and tolerance.

          • LizLox

            Hi again, trapezium. Just wanted to share something with you. It’s something very personal but, nevertheless, it might be helpful in explaining myself. I have borderline personality disorder (funnily enough a condition ribbed in Julie’s last article!). One of the things I struggle with is managing my emotions, including anger. I do find it frustrating if I see something that seems unfair and I don’t always get it right in my response. I’m sure I haven’t always on here, although I think Julie and I have made up. So, I believe that my intentions come from a good place but my actions may be cack-handed. I know I’m taking a risk in telling you this. You may say something hurtful back, for example. Plus, I do realise I have just ‘outed’ myself to the internet as someone with BPD, but then it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I just thought I’d take a chance to give you some background. All the best.

          • trapezium

            “I struggle with … managing my emotions, including anger. ”

            So what?

            If you get angry easily, it seems to me very unwise to tangle with somebody like Julie Burchill in a comments thread. Why do you not choose happiness instead of choosing situations that are likely to make you unhappy?

            I say this not as a platitude, but as a highly practical solution. You have a real choice. To put it bluntly: you can get off the thread and do something else that makes you happy. The opposite – repeatedly entering situations which provoke – just looks like self-harm.

          • LizLox

            I was defending myself against you accusation about what I believed. That is why I wanted to explain myself. That is all.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            Yes, absolutely. As I say in the piece, WHY TANGLE IF YOU’RE FRAGILE? It doesn’t make sense – like being a nympho if you can’t come.

          • LizLox

            because I believed in what was saying

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            Not being bad, but I GUESSED you had BDS! Kol ha’kavod in coming out. Here’s the thing. What you’d call *mood swings*, I call LIFE. You feel good – you feel bad. You act nice – you act like an ass-hat. For me, because I OWN my rotter-ness, I don’t seek alibi. But good luck, Liz.

          • Julie Burchill Raven

            SORRY, BPS! Was scrapping with the BDS today, hence my mistake.

          • LizLox

            I expect most people guessed Julie. I’m not seeking alibis. Way, way too late for that. I just wanted to explain about partly why I came across like I did.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            “The paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.” Karp Popper

          • trapezium

            Karp Popper? That the guy who went around popping karps?

            He was friends with Chub Fuddler.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            That’s the one, he spoke sense he did.

        • LizLox

          Hi again, Gary, please read my comment to trapezium about my BPD. I wouldn’t want you thinking that everyone is as intolerant as me in working towards a fairer society! I’d hate to give the cause a bad name! All the best.

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          This says it better than I could, Gary:

          “The paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”

          Karp Popper

  • kle4

    Deliberately not giving in to someone looking to provoke a nasty online fight, while still responding, can give a nice satisified smug feeling of being above the fray. Easy to give in though.

  • franknowzad

    Utter tripe. Have you people never tried sticking pins in Voodoo dolls instead of wasting time on the interweb chat sites?

    • LizLox

      Tried it but it didn’t work, franknowzad! 😉

      • franknowzad

        What? chatsites?

        • LizLox

          Nah – voodoo! 🙂

  • guest

    //I honestly find it hard to care what my loved ones think of me; the idea that I would care what one-handed, half-witted strangers think of me is even more of a stretch. //

    Errm.. why’d you write this if you didn’t care?

    Clearly you don’t care enough for it to depress or annoy you, but you care enough to feel the need to respond.

    Anyway you redeemed yourself with this – //Like brass-rubbing and anal sex, online scrapping is not for everyone. But for a few of us articulate, secure types, it has opened up a whole new wonderland of verbalicious viciousness.//

    Good job being ‘secure enough’ to take it up the arse then. I’m sure the man in your life is grateful. Write about that and convert some more women to that line of thinking please.

    • Julie Burchill Raven

      ‘Why did you write this?’ Um, its called ‘writing for a living’? And I personally am not a huge fan of anal sex – gosh, that sentence looks RUDE – nor of brass-rubbing. They were just EXAMPLES of minority interests – one of mine is cyber-squabbling.

  • David

    There are so many soul destroying things about the modern world, and I am so glad that Julie Burchill is around to lay into them. Rock on!

  • Steve

    There has also been a rise of a new phenomenon of people sending abusive messages to themselves under the guise of other identities. This is clearly a new form of self harm and cry for help. Things aren’t always what they seem.

    • Calgacus MacAndrews

      Some of these people are in the Better Together Campaign, and they’re just doing it to try to get us nice Cybernats a bad reputation.

  • anneteak

    Tut. Squabbles…

    But on the fashion front..what exactly is an arsehat?

    And would Ladies Day at Ascot be an appropriate occasion on which to wear one?

  • Trans Fan and Proud
  • Trans Fan and Proud
    • Piquette

      “Old bats.” It’s very common, I’ve noticed, for trans-activists to be ageist toward women/feminists who (they presume) are no longer young.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        Just exposing transphobia in the media.

        • Evert

          By reinforcing ageism and pedalling gendered insults? How do you think that will work out?

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Just exposing transphobia in the media, Transphobia: Not in My Name.

          • Evert

            Oh, don’t be so coy – you’re not *just* doing that

            (you’d totes fail a Turing test btw)

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Artificial Intelligence = Transphobia

          • Evert

            Your fight is with Siri then!

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Intolerance Breeds Intolerance.

          • Evert

            That was really my original point

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Trans Fat and Proud never says ‘old bats’! 🙂

          • Evert

            Well, you kind of did (or at least didn’t distance yourself from that part of the section you quoted – which gives the impression you agree)

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            No, Trans Fan and Proud doesn’t agree with saying ‘old bats’ but intolerance breeds intolerance. The article: exposing and opposing transphobia in the media.

          • Evert

            I agree.

            But you cannot have you cake and eat it too: you cannot say intolerance breeds intolerance and then happily parrot intolerant arguments

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Trans fan and Proud tolerates most things – but not intolerance. S/he would like to congratulate you, though, on stopping her/his parrot from parroting for a moment! 🙂

          • Piquette

            Trans Fan and Proud is now referring to herself in the third person, like someone gone loopy from fatigue and strain.

            Why don’t you take a little rest? That’s not a command, of course, just a suggestion.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Keeping on exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

          • Trans Fan and Proud
          • Piquette

            Ha. “Loopy” makes the words-to-avoid list, but the insult “cunt” doesn’t–so long as it’s used against someone with whom you have a disagreement. Your true colours are showing, Liz!

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            List was disbility rights list as link shows.Trans Fan and Proud does not approve of the use of the word here but
            agrees with the sentiment of the comment as a whole and the support for
            anonymity. Hence the upvote. Trans Fan and Proud is a biological female
            and has a lovely cunt of her own.In fact, Trans Fan and Proud shares her life with a biological female who also has a lovely cunt. Move along, nothing to see here.

  • Trans Fan and Proud
  • Trans Fan and Proud
  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/jan/20/weekend.julieburchill

    “And, yes, I know that they’re not the same, but may I say that I feel
    even less patience with transsexuals. Male to female transsexuals are
    Michael Jackson to the transvestites Ali G; not content even to dress up
    temporarily as the Other, they presume that its authenticity can be
    theirs through a few cosmetic adjustments.”

    • Piquette

      Another good read, from many years ago, by Burchill. Thanks for the link.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        Opposing transphobia in the media.

        • Lesley Ann Sharrock

          Then show your face. Stand up and be counted.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            End transphobia. End of.

          • Philip Rose

            God there are some cunts on this thread, but you seem to want to be seen as the biggest. Good grief, you even attacked one of Bitchill’s chums regarding the anonymity crap. Give it a rest. And btw – having had more than a fair share of death threats online, anonymity is quite wise, believe me.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Very Wise: Trans Fan and Proud. 🙂

          • Piquette

            Trans Fan and Proud gives her stamp of approval on calling women “cunts.” Which gives more weight to the impression that trans-activists actually hate biological females.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Trans Fan and Proud does not approve of the use of the word here but agrees with the sentiment of the comment as a whole and the support for anonymity. Hence the upvote. Trans Fan and Proud is a biological female and has a lovely cunt of her own. Move along, nothing to see here.

          • Philip Rose

            Hey dude! Trans did NOT give approval for the word ‘cunts’. It was approval of the wisdom of remaining anonymous. So just stfu.

          • Piquette

            I saw what you called me before you edited your comment. You didn’t even give Liz a chance to approve of that particular slur.

          • Philip Rose

            I said stfu. So just stfu. I mean – just wtf is the point in your commenting?

          • Piquette

            The same point of most everyone else who comments: to add to the discussion, share opinions, debate. Even if a violent man, such as yourself, tells me to shut up.

          • Philip Rose

            If you were doing any of that, then yeah, fair enough. But basically you’re just being a twat.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Noa

            to Trans Fan and Proud

            an hour ago

            That’s because intersecting hordes of all genders and sexes decided
            to beat you with clubs for being a terminally boring, repetitious idiot.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Opposing misconstruing online.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Trans Fan and Proud thanks you. Opposing misconstruing of the most deliberate and underhand way to try and score points online.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Socialist.

        Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

        Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Jew.

        Then they came for the transexuals, and I did not speak out- Because I was not a transexual.

        Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        Piquette to Trans Fan and Proud

        “There is no competition, amongst women, about what it means to be a
        woman. Women are female. Females already know, and have never been
        permitted to forget, that they belong to a class of girls and women.

        It’s male transsexuals who are carrying on the tradition of men
        defining what women are. That’s what MtFs are fighting for: the “right”
        to enact a fantasy of what it means to be a woman, and to get others in
        on this act, this fantasy–reality be damned. Therefore, there is NO
        similarity between women’s rights and transgender rights.”

  • Trans Fan and Proud
  • Trans Fan and Proud
  • Trans Fan and Proud
  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/to-julie-burchill-suzanne-moore-and-all-feminists-the-absence-of-trans-people-in-the-media-is-as-important-as-the-absence-of-women-in-the-media-8450401.html

    “People cannot help their ignorance, but Julie Burchill isn’t ignorant.
    She’s an educated person. She has thought actively about sex, gender and
    sexuality for years; it’s not that she’s never met a trans person or
    thought about what it must be like to go through something so lonely and
    terrifying as gender reassignment surgery. Those people, the ones who
    are ignorant or naïve or ill-informed, perhaps we should have some
    sympathy with. But that’s not Burchill. She has the luxury of awareness
    and education. She still seems to choose to be transphobic.”

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://mxactivist.tumblr.com/post/40419634694

    “For me feminism has always been synonymous with equality. It is
    impossible to be a bigot and a feminist. It is impossible to be a
    feminist and view gender as simply biological.”

    • Piquette

      Feminism is about ending patriarchy, not seeking equality on its terms. Therefore, feminism is not “synonymous with equality.”

      Gender is not biological. Gender is a role. So the author is accidentally correct in stating that “It is impossible to be a feminist and view gender as simply biological.” Sex, however, is biological.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        “If there’s any silver lining on the horizon, it’s that trans people and
        their allies are beginning to rise up. They’re seeing the institutional
        abuse from the medical system, the press, the right-wing forces, that
        ends up hurting and even killing us, and saying “no more”. But it’s
        still too late for some. One trans person who dies as a result of what
        this culture does to us is one too many.”

        http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2013/03/her_name_was_lucy_meadows

        • Piquette

          “They’re seeing the institutional abuse from the medical system … ”

          I wish this were true. What counts as abuse from the medical system for trans-activists? Giving children dangerous puberty blockers and synthetic hormones? Deliberately destroying healthy body parts? “Treating” mental confusion and emotional anguish (or, in other cases, an elaborate sexual fetish) with a scalpel?

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Transphobic bullying is a blight on society.

          • Piquette

            My questions are, of course, rhetorical. For trans-activists, these medical “treatments” are enlightened and progressive.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Exposing and opposing transphobia online.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        Just exposing transphobia in the media.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://quinnae.com/2013/01/13/unguarded-and-poorly-observed-a-response-to-julie-burchill/

    “What is especially irritating about all of this is that feminists have
    the tools to understand why all of this is problematic: why “it’s just a
    joke” is not an excuse, why slurs are hate speech, why and how language
    constructs prejudicial realities (just as “mankind” biases us to
    thinking of men as more human than women, calling trans women “men”
    biases us to discriminating against them), and so on. Feminists, more
    than most people, have the tools to understand all of this.”

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://considertheteacosy.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/julie-burchill-and-trans-women/

    “Except for this: Julie Burchill, I am angry. I am angry both that you
    attack trans women in such a vile manner, and that you claim to speak
    for all cis women when you do so. How dare you? How dare you? You do not speak for me. I do and I always will stand beside my trans sisters who I have far more in common with than bigots like you. With whom, despite your protestations, I do
    share an experience of womanhood. There is nothing unnatural about
    being trans. There is, Ms Burchill, something unnatural about bigotry.”

    • Lesley Ann Sharrock

      Cis? Away with you. Now that is bloody offensive.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Socialist.

        Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

        Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out– Because I was not a Jew.

        Then they came for the transexuals, and I did not speak out- Because I was not a transexual.

        Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.

        Opposing transphobia in the media.

    • Sesachili Hopkins

      There’s no way you can be accused of not being in the loop 🙂

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        🙂 Just exposing transphobia in the media!

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://www.newstatesman.com/juliet-jacques/2013/03/trans-people-and-media-compromise-neither-desirable-nor-possible

    “Defending commentators who write outright barbarous things about trans people, writers will often cite the right to freedom of speech,
    sometimes mistaking the refusal to give views a platform for their
    absolute censorship. This ignores the fact that one person’s freedom of
    speech can, on occasion, impede the right of groups to exist without
    feeling persecuted, and fails to recognise that using “freedom of
    speech” to deny these groups a right to reply to individual aggression
    is in itself an attack on freedom of speech. The right to free speech
    is, incredibly important, obviously, but rights work best when
    accompanied by a sense of responsibility, and it would be nice if more
    commentators asked themselves: Why am I saying this, and why am I saying it here? What power do I have, and what is the responsible way to use it?”

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    http://teni.ie/news-post.aspx?contentid=970

    SUICIDE FIGURES

    The report reveals shocking
    levels of suicide attempt rates amongst the trans community in Ireland.
    78% of respondents had considered suicide, and 40% of these had
    attempted to take their own live at least once. The levels of self-harm
    reported were also disturbing, with 44% of people having self-harmed.

    DISCRIMINATION

    “These figures are a result of the widespread transphobia in our
    society,” said TENI Director Broden Giambrone. “Trans people experienced
    worrying levels of violence because of their gender identity: 6% of
    trans people had been raped; 36% had been sexually harassed; 16% were
    physically assaulted and 64% were mocked or called names.
    “The
    impact of this is that trans people and their families experience
    endemic levels of stress and anxiety. We found that 83% of trans people
    avoided public spaces due to a fear of being harassed.”

    HEALTH CARE

    The survey showed that self-harm and suicide attempt rates plummeted
    when people were able to transition to their true gender. “This was a
    really specific, positive finding,” continued Giambrone. “If people are
    supported to become their true selves, their wellbeing and mental
    health improve dramatically. As one of the most marginalised
    communities in Ireland, it is encouraging to find that when appropriate
    health care is provided, we can make a tangible improvement in the
    lives of trans people and their families.”

  • Piquette

    The very IDEA that gender roles (which, historically, are always being modified, while the man/woman hierarchy is kept intact) can be “true,” as in in-born, is an idea that deserves unwavering criticism–including ridicule.

    Because it’s nonsense. To embrace a past or current feminine gender role, as if it existed a priori, and as if subjective, misty feelings of femininity–in a male–necessarily mean one’s biological sex MUST be female, is the very opposite of becoming one’s “true self.” This is especially true for children, who, at ever-earlier ages, are being subjected to barbaric interference with their physical, sexual, emotional, and psychological development before they are even given a chance to know themselves and the world. Simply because they are gender non-confroming. These are obvious and egregious cases of child abuse.

    The suffering experienced by people with so-called Gender Identity Disorder must, of course, be addressed. So must the violence against visibly trans people. But, conflating violent, homophobic men with the people who have legitimate criticisms of trans-activism (and there are many) is disingenuous. Also, equating physical violence with gender criticism is a type emotional blackmail. It is a tactic used against people (mostly feminists) who refuse to accept the tenets of the trans movement–a tactic used to make them too ashamed, and, especially, too afraid to speak up.

    It’s no small irony that trans-critical women are often threatened with traditional male violence: rape, battery, sex-murder, burning. Non-violent trans-activists try to deny or dissociate themselves from these threats against vocal females. But what non-violent trans-activists really need to do is confront, head-on, the profound misogyny that surfaces, with the flimsiest “provocation” (e.g., referring to a biological male as a “man”), from their ranks. Violent misogyny is not a product of mental illness, so that’s no excuse. It’s mostly a product of being born and raised as a boy in cultures which oppress and abuse females. But, if acknowledging that the trans people who call themselves women, were, in fact, born male and raised to become men, is called “hate speech,” then that vital conversation is off-limits, isn’t it?

    • Philip Rose

      tl;dr

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      “so-called Gender Identity Disorder”
      “so-called”? “so-called”!

      Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      ‘the flimsiest “provocation” (e.g., referring to a biological male as a “man”‘flimsy? flimsy!

      Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/01/31/3235351/laverne-cox-loving-trans-people-revolutionary-act/#

      “”When a trans woman is called a man,” she said, “that is an act of
      violence.” But “loving trans people,” she believes, “is a revolutionary
      act.”

    • shenanniganist

      Daaaarn you Biology!!! You are a vicious mistress!

      • Piquette

        She most certainly is!

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        And darn you the NHS and the law….

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “This leads to many trans folks feeling that their identities and lived
    experiences are not being recognized. Apart from the insult of using
    outdated names and pronouns to define trans people, refusing to identify
    a victim of a violent crime as transgender or gender non-conforming
    delegitimizes a case’s status as a hate crime and a trans issue —
    something that is essential in drawing the public’s attention to the
    severity and rampancy of violence against transgender and gender
    non-conforming folks.”

    http://dialog.studentassociation.ca/index.php/moment-silence/

    • Piquette

      When a trans woman is raped or murdered, it’s a hate crime. When a girl or woman is raped or murdered, it’s just a sad part of life–nobody ever calls this violence against women “hate crimes.” Unless, of course, those “women” are men.

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        Trans Fan and Proud believes all violence against women should be classified as a “hate crime”.

        • shenanniganist

          As opposed to violence against men? Or children? Animals? Hmmm…curious.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Piquette was talking about why violence against women wasn’t classified as a hate crime, Trans Fan and Proud was replying. Julie Burchill has liked your comment, with all the work to she is doing regarding violence against women she might agree that the use of “hate crime” is relevant? No? As to why violence against women could be classified as a “hate crime” there is plenty of literature on this. For now,one link: http://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/julia-long/should-violence-against-women-in-uk-be-seen-as-hate-crime

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            “We know in Britain that violence against women is bad; a hate crime, like racial or homophobic violence.” – Julie Burchill

            http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2002/nov/23/weekend.julieburchill

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Don’t expect Ms Burchill will upvote one of my comments even if it is to agree with her own words, shenanniganist.

            Trans Fan and Proud

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        “those “women” are men”
        those women are men? those women are men!

        Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

        • Piquette

          Did she just feign shock? Did she feign it? Did she?

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Yes, yes and thrice yes!!!

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

          Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

          Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “In my opinion, we only become truly brave, truly above self-interest, when fighting for people different from ourselves.” – Julie Burchill

    Trans Fan and Proud

  • shenanniganist

    I love it…well spoken ma’am.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Transphobia is the great shame of modern radical feminism.”

    http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2011/09/radical_feminism_transphobia

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “I did not come to feminism for hatred; I did not come to feminism in
    order to use my power and privilege as a white, middle-class,
    cisgendered2
    woman to oppress a group of people more oppressed than myself; I did
    not come to feminism in order to set up new hierarchies or take up the
    role of oppressor. I came to feminism because I believed, and continue
    to believe, that as part of anti-oppression activism, feminist theories
    and philosophies can offer ways of being, thinking and relating which
    could make life better for all of us, whether we identify as men, women,
    or something else altogether.”

    http://amptoons.com/blog/2007/01/05/responding-to-the-feminist-anti-transsexual-arguments/

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Always up for a fight, I hurried through cyberspace, only to find my
    homey the target of a thoroughly monstrous regiment of bellicose
    transsexuals and their bed-wetting ‘cheerleaders’.”

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9141292/dont-you-dare-tell-me-to-check-my-privilege/

    Bed-Wetting Cheerleader and Proud

  • jamie

    Thank you Julie. This really has filled me with……mirth. (though I’m not even sure if this describes it effectively…)

    Us men have been rolling our eyes skyward for years now every time we’re told to check our privilege by moaney-whiney-white-middle-class-borderline-narcissistic-feminists.

    There is something beautiful… nay… poetic… nay… orgasmic in seeing these same feminists (like Julie Birchill) trying to wriggle their way out of the very same arguments they have so tirelessly laid on us ad infinitum.

    If this weren’t enough to send one’s jizz muscles into involuntary spasm, we can all bask in the wonderful knowledge that ‘intersectionality’ and ‘privilege’– those wonderfully bullet proof concepts, finely honed over the years by those very same feminists to subvert meaningful dialogue, and hence foster krazy dialogue– are now currently being used to great effect against them.

    godspeed you crazy black disabled transvestite emperors.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Loopy White Cis-Female Trans Fan and Proud!

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Transphobia and other forms of discrimination alienate feminists from
    their natural allies in the fight for liberation. It is important to be aware of and speak out against these poisonous prejudices”

    http://www.radicalwomen.org/transphobia.shtml

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “She said this image is satirizing the gender-policing feminist she
    encounters, those who dictate who qualifies as a woman and who does not,
    often demonizing transgender women.“These feminists can be any age, but they share the trait of holding the feminist movement back from growth and improvement.” Cohen intentionally made the woman older with a second-wave
    feminism pamphlet to satirize many of the transphobic comments made
    being representative of older feminist ideals when the movement has
    grown past that. “The idea with pamphlet was not that ideas from 70s are
    bad,” she said. “The one little pamphlet is the sum total of what their
    brand of so-called feminism is. It seems so limited and closed off from
    new ideas.”People who were already readers, friends and fans thought it was funny and were very receptive to MISS Gendered.However, Cohen said she got serious harassment from some women who even went as far as to create a parody Facebook account to harass her.

    Most of the criticism was that she did not take the time to understand where these women are coming from, but Cohen says she has taken the time to try to understand.“I’ve taken the time, I’ve listened and read and I think its worthy of mockery,” she said. –

    http://vitaminw.co/culture-society/Miss-gendered-cartoonist-satirizes-transphobic-feminists

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “a bunch of dicks in chick’s clothing” – Julie Burchill
    “their relationship with their phantom limb” – Julie Burchill
    “trannies” – Julie Burchill
    “shemales” – Julie Burchill
    “shims” – Julie Burchill
    “a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs” – Julie Burchill
    “their major beautification operations” – Julie Burchill
    “how very stupid men look, in fact, when they dress up as women” – Julie Burchill
    “I feel even less patience with transsexuals” – Julie Burchill
    “Male to female transsexuals are Michael Jackson to the transvestites Ali G”Julie Burchill –
    “they presume that its authenticity can be theirs through a few cosmetic adjustments” – Julie Burchill
    “Transsexualism is, basically, just another, more drastic twist on the male menopause” – Julie Burchill

    Exposing and opposing transphobia in the media and online

    Trans Fan and Proud

  • Noa

    Perhaps you’re addressing your questions to the wrong end, or maybe not.

    • gerontius

      Hey Noa you old dude, this is a crazy place to hang out.

      • Noa

        Gimme skiiiin, G-man.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Bigotry is often born out of fear and confusion at those whose
    identities we don’t understand. We fear that their difference reflects
    on our sameness, and in a rush to blanket ourselves in the comfort of
    conformity, we demonize their difference. Progressives often bemoan the
    bigotry underlying the policies and political positions of those on the
    right, but the sad truth is that bigotry exists even in progressive and
    feminist spaces. And nowhere is that more evident that in the
    transphobia, both latent and outright, that underwrites many facets of
    the feminist movement.”

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/38403/transphobia-has-no-place-in-feminism

  • Piquette

    Julie Burchill–I’d love to hear your remarks on our latest, celebrity recipients of the dreaded “transphobia” accusation: Ellen DeGeneres and Jared Leto.

    They are both innocent, of course, but the trans-activists are in a tizzy! It’s madness.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Ellen Degeneres: Transgendered people and drag queens are not the same.

      • Piquette

        No, they are not the same. Ellen made a joke (that did, apparently, make Liza uncomfortable) but that joke is being called transphobic by trans-activists.

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          Not by me. Not by all.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Jared Leto: think it would have been better to cast a woman in the role, like Hayley in Coronation Street. An excellent portrayal.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Hi, Piquette. Re: casting of Jared Leto, here’s an article arguing that
      role should have gone to a transgender woman. See what You think. Catch
      you later.
      http://ideas.time.com/2014/03/

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Hi, Piquette. I think this article sums it up for me. Yes, I think the joke was mistaken but not transphobic. I think the trouble is that transphobia is so much a part of the lives of transgender people that some do sometimes make a miscall. You will not agree, I’m sure, but I believe that Ms Burchill’s language was deliberately offensive and derogatory towards transgender people and, therefore, transphobic.

      “Ellen Degeneres made an error in judgment when she came out with her
      joke about Liza Minelli. Minelli has been impersonated by drag queens
      the world over, and while the joke was likely no surprise to many, it
      was still a misstep for Degeneres, who is usually known for her
      lighthearted, observational brand of humor. She is not transphobic; she
      is simply human and flawed just like the rest of society. The attempt
      to label her as transphobic only speaks to a society that has become so
      myopic that it has forgotten that people do simply make mistakes
      sometimes.”

      http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/ellen-degeneres-transphobic-or-is-society-myopic/

      • Piquette

        Yes, I had read the Guardian article earlier, and I agree that Ellen made a miscalculation with that joke.

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          Hurrah, we agree Piquette! You may not believe it but that’s given me a warm glow!

  • Liz

    That’s all very well Julie, but should public discourse be the preserve of the bullish? Is there no room for the opinions of the sensitive?

    And that phoning the police story, you told the same one about your Observer piece.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Burchill goes far beyond thoughtful argument about such issues, or
    even angry argument in support of her acknowledged friend. She engages
    gratuitously in what looks like raw, hateful, cruel transphobia. She
    appears to go out of her way to hurt and provoke (and to whip
    up hostility against) male-to-female transsexuals in general, based on
    their characteristics as transsexuals rather than anything else. She
    does not merely criticise, even in forthright or angry terms, the
    tactics of particular activists or activist groups. Again and again, she
    does this kind of thing: “a bunch of dicks in chicks’
    clothing”; “their relationship with their phantom limb”; “the trannies.
    (I know that’s a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their
    lot describe born women as ‘Cis’ – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all
    nasty stuff – they’re lucky I’m not calling them shemales. Or shims.)”;
    “To have your cock cut off and then plead special privileges as women”;
    “Shims, shemales, whatever you’re calling yourselves these days”.

    To say this least, this is bad form. We can argue with each other
    about these sensitive issues, and we can even get angry with each other.
    Once again, maybe Moore was bullied, in all the circumstances,
    for a relatively minor offence in the scheme of things. Whatever. But
    there is no excuse for the hateful way that Burchill has chosen to
    express herself.”

    http://www.skepticink.com/hellfireclub/2013/01/13/julie-burchill-loses-it-on-transsexuals/

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    The Power of Words

    ‘“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt
    me.” It’s a phrase frequently heard when we’re kids, something that
    sounds really catchy and helps us shrug off mean words that may be
    carelessly hurled at us.

    In a perfect world, this saying would ring true, and words
    would not, in fact, have the power to hurt us. But if you’ve ever been called a
    “bitch” or a “slut” or something much more vicious, then you know it’s
    just not true. Words do hurt. Sometimes more than sticks and stones. As a
    writer, I think language is among one of the most powerful tools at our
    disposal.’

    http://positively-smitten.com/

    Does Julie Burchill, as a writer, still not get it?

  • Rockin Ron

    C.S. Lewis – ‘That Hideous Strength’

    “I thought love meant equality,” she said, “and free companionship.”

    “Ah, equality?” said the Director. “We must talk of that some other time.
    Yes, we must all be guarded by equal rights from one another’s greed,
    because we are fallen. Just as we must all wear clothes for the same
    reason. But the naked body should be there underneath the clothes,
    ripening for the day when we shall need them no longer. Equality is not
    the deepest thing, you know.”

    “I always thought that was just what it was. I thought it was in their souls that people were equal.”

    “You were mistaken,” said he gravely. “That is the last place where they are
    equal. Equality before the law, equality of incomes—that is very well.
    Equality guards life; it doesn’t make it. It is medicine, not food.”

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Hello, Rockin Ron, I’m probably being thick here but I don’t know what this
      means and how it relates to the article. Can you help me?

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Gender Confirmation Surgery

    “every major medical, psychological, psychiatric, and therapist organization in the U.S. has issued statements supporting the medical necessity of GCS”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-gender-confirmation-surgery_b_4384701.html

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “These people need therapy, not surgery.”

    “They tried for decades to change people’s gender identities, the
    same way they tried to change sexual orientation. Drugs. Therapy.
    Electroshock therapy. Lobotomies. Institutionalization. It doesn’t
    work. It’s why California and New Jersey have banned reparative therapy
    that tries to change sexual orientation OR gender identity. Those bans
    are holding up in court, because the overwhelming scientific consensus
    is that you can’t change a person’s gender identity, and you can’t just
    make their dysphoria go away with drugs or talk therapy. If you could,
    then that would be the preferred treatment, not expensive surgery.

    Support for the necessity of GCS is based on scientifically-based
    national medical research, professional medical specialty organizations,
    and widely and generally accepted medical and surgical practices and
    standards, and is supported by prevailing peer reviewed medical
    literature.

    The opposition to the notion of necessity this comes from religious
    zealots and people who aren’t qualified to be making medical decisions
    anyway.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-gender-confirmation-surgery_b_4384701.html

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “It’s cosmetic.”

    “Again, every major medical, psychological, psychiatric, and therapist
    organization agrees GCS isn’t cosmetic. AMA Resolution 122, states:

    An established body of medical research demonstrates the
    effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone
    therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment
    for many people diagnosed with GID …. Health experts in GID, including
    WPATH, have rejected the myth that such treatments are ‘cosmetic’ or
    ‘experimental’ and have recognized that these treatments can provide
    safe and effective treatment for a serious health condition.

    Indeed, GCS improves functionality in socioeconomic status, family life, sexuality, and mental health.

    The irony surrounding the first three myths on this list is they are
    generally perpetuated by people who would be outraged if bureaucrats
    were making medical decisions for them instead of their doctors. These
    same people, however, are perfectly fine with the public making health
    care decisions for transgender people instead of actual doctors,
    psychiatrists, and psychologists.

    This should be a giant red flag. Consider that the last few times we
    crowd sourced medical ethics on the treatment of unpopular minorities.
    We ended up with the Tuskegee Experiment and the AIDS epidemic.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-gender-confirmation-surgery_b_4384701.html

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “For more than 11 years, I have performed gender confirmation surgery as
    part of my surgical practice. I call it “gender confirmation surgery”
    because I believe that out of the myriad labels I’ve heard for the
    procedure — “sex reassignment surgery,” “gender reassignment surgery,”
    and “sex change operation,” to name but a few — none is as accurate
    when it comes to describing what is actually taking place as “gender
    confirmation surgery.”

    If I can use my surgical skills and advanced microsurgical training to
    help people with an often lifelong struggle find peace of mind and
    comfort with their bodies, why wouldn’t I? Whether it’s a single-stage
    technique for vaginoplasty, breast augmentation, or facial feminization,
    or a similarly advanced microsurgical approach to phalloplasty or
    meatoidioplasty, or chest surgery, each surgical method is utilized and
    tailored to the individual needs of the patient.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/loren-s-schechter-md-facs/gender-confirmation-surgery_b_1442262.html2

  • Insiduous

    Anybody who takes Twitter that seriously should give themselves a good talking to. Its not compulsory.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    A Voice Against Gender Dysphoria

    “Gender dysphoria (GD) was invented in the 1950s by reactionary male
    psychiatrists in an era when men were men and women were doormats. It is
    a term used to describe someone who feels strongly that they should
    belong to the opposite sex and that they were born in the wrong body. GD
    has no proven genetic or physiological basis.”

    http://standpointmag.co.uk/the-operation-that-can-ruin-your-life-features-november-09-julie-bindel-transsexuals?page=1

    I am posting an article which, for a change, shows that there is a
    minority voice that speaks out against the existence of gender dysphoria
    and against treatment for it. If you read this article, please also
    read the comments, many from transgender people. The existence of this
    dissenting voice makes transphobic slurs even more hurtful.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Treatment of Gender Dysphoria

    “Treatment of Gender Dysphoria encorporates surgical and endocrine intervention,
    because analytical and aversion therapies have historically proven
    damaging. As much as mainstream society would like to believe that
    electroshock therapy, anti-psychotic drugs or conversion (“ex-gay”)
    therapy would help transsexuals “just get over it,” modern medicine has
    realized that this approach simply does not work, and usually results in
    suppression, suicide or extreme anti-social behaviour. Aligning body to
    mind, however, has enabled transsexuals to become valued and successful
    people in society. There are, in fact, a few transsexuals who feel that
    they can live without having GRS, but they are the exception and not
    the rule.

    Gender Dysphoria (sometimes called “Gender Identity
    Disorder,” or GID) is currently listed as a mental health issue, but
    ongoing study of both genetic “brain sex” and Endocrine Disrupting
    Chemicals (EDCs) show the possibility of some biological causal factor.
    In a study released in October 2003, UCLA researchers identified 54
    genes in male and female mouse brains that led to measurable differences
    by gender, and went on to indicate the possibility of a brain being
    gendered differently to one’s physical sex. Studies of EDCs show
    another, possibly concurrent potential that exposure to chemicals that
    simulate hormone characteristics — particularly between the third and
    eighth week of pregnancy — can affect the signals sent out to determine
    psychological gender and biological sex, which appear to develop at
    different times during gestation. In all fairness, nothing is
    conclusively proven at this point, and there is not a lot of research
    money being put into further study, as most pharmaceutical companies do
    not yet see a payoff from doing so. But the anecdotal and observational
    data from EDC and brain studies of human and animal populations would
    tend to support an innate origin or component of transsexuality, and
    coincides with transsexuals’ convictions that they “just knew” that they
    were female (in the case of male-to-female transsexuals) or male (in
    the case of female-to-males).”

    http://www.bilerico.com/2009/08/why_sex_change_surgery_is_medically_necessary.php

    • Piquette

      “In a study released in October 2003, UCLA researchers identified 54 genes in male and female mouse brains that led to measurable differences by gender, and went on to indicate the possibility of a brain being gendered differently to one’s physical sex.”

      I’d really like to know what these “measurable differences” were! How did the mice express their gender differently from their physical sex? Did some of the male mice wiggle their little hip bones and show an interest in lipstick? Did some of the female mice flex their little muscles and eschew high heels?

      • Trans Fan and Proud

        I’ve given you the link, look into it!

        • Evert

          Point of order: No you didn’t, you linked to a comment piece. Now, I only quickly glanced at the comment piece, but I could see no direct references to the original research there.

          Which is a little irritating, and looks more than a little bit dishonest

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Then try and trace it. I’m presenting it as a comment with the link to show its origin. Nothing dishonest about that. If I hadn’t provided the line, that would have been dishonest.

          • Evert

            Sorry, I expressed myself poorly. I meant dishonest on the part of the original author of the quoted piece. Though I maintain it is irritating behaviour (again the author, not you) – it really is not on to make your readers do the leg work to track down research. Unfortunately it is very much the norm in journalism.

            Anyway, I think I tracked it down – it is in a reply to Piquette above.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Thanks for clarifying what you meant, Evert. I posted it because I thought it was an interesting view. Thanks very much for tracking down the research, I’ll have a read now.

      • Evert

        As best as I can determine, this is the research. It seems interesting, but does not quite say what the quoted person seems to think it says. :

        Title: Sexually dimorphic gene expression in mouse brain precedes gonadal differentiation.

        Citation: Brain Research. Molecular Brain Research, 10 2003, vol./is. 118/1-2(82-90), 0169-328X;0169-328X (2003 Oct 21)

        Author(s): Dewing P,Shi T,Horvath S,Vilain E

        Abstract:

        The classic view of brain sexual differentiation and behavior is that gonadal steroid hormones act directly to promote sex differences in neural and behavioral development. In particular, the actions of testosterone and its metabolites induce a masculine pattern of brain development, while inhibiting feminine neural and behavioral patterns of differentiation. However, recent evidence indicates that gonadal hormones may not solely be responsible for sex differences in brain development and behavior between males and females. Here we examine an alternative hypothesis that genes, by directly inducing sexually dimorphic patterns of neural development, can influence the sexual differences between male and female brains. Using microarrays and RT-PCR, we have detected over 50 candidate genes for differential sex expression, and confirmed at least seven murine genes which show differential expression between the developing brains of male and female mice at stage 10.5 days post coitum (dpc), before any gonadal hormone influence. The identification of genes differentially expressed between male and female brains prior to gonadal formation suggests that genetic factors may have roles in influencing brain sexual differentiation.

        • Trans Fan and Proud

          Again, thanks for tracking this down. I find it fascinating. It seems entirely sensible that genetic factors have a role to play in creating gender dysphoria.

          • Evert

            That’s no problem. I have a knack – and it is kinda my job too.

            Well the article doesn’t (can’t) go that far. Just suggests that further research is worthwhile.

            There are more recently articles on this topic, but I haven’t had time to look at them (and to be honest, I don’t really have the skill to quickly understand them).

            Also, and we might not be best to reach a judgement on this (both being non-trans*), if transexuality does have a genetic base it clearly leaves the door open to genetic therapy or prophylactic abortion. I wonder if this is a situation that current trans* activists would support.

            How would you feel about it?

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Hi, Evert. To be truthful, I don’t really care much what the cause of gender dysphoria is. I think genes probably do have a part to play but, whatever the cause, it exists. Not only does it exist but it can be treated. I have posted information more for people that are hung up on the cause. As a gay woman, I face a similar dilemma about a gay gene and what would happen if it can be identified. So, for me, I don’t need any further genetic exploration: transgenderism exists, homosexuality exists. I think people should just deal with those facts and show respect for other human beings. What is your job btw?

          • Evert

            To be honest, I don’t really care either. As far as I am concerned trans* people are still human. So entitled to the dignity and rights that I think all humans are entitled to.

            I’m a medical librarian. It is a fun job, and I’m glad I have it.

          • Trans Fan and Proud

            Lovely to meet someone on here who is so accepting of that fact. Sounds like a great job, Evert.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Denial

    “Denial that a group even exists is the first and most intense form
    of prejudice/vilification. The next most intense form is hugely
    inaccurate representation re trans women being lumped into one of two
    categories as either homosexual men or fetishists,” Goldner said.

    “This shows no awareness of the truth re the infinite possibilities
    for trans and gender diverse experiences and confuses gender identity,
    sexual orientation and other factors.

    “The idea that trans women – or anyone in the trans and gender
    diverse kaleidoscope – are pretending in any way gets close to the
    deception idea portrayed by offensive fictional media such as There’s Something About Miriam and Bamboozled.
    All of these sort of comments are the equivalent in degree of
    inaccuracy to the religious supremacists saying being gay is more
    dangerous than smoking.”

    http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/local-news/leading-feminist-launches-bizarre-racist-attack-on-trans-community/118883

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Sister Monica

    “I heard, without looking or seeing, a woman’s voice,” she remembers.
    “She was publicly apologizing to all the transgender people in the world
    for the damage done to them by the Catholic Church.”

    http://america.aljazeera.com/features/2014/3/transgender-and-catholic.html

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Gender Benders Beware”

    “Gender Benders, beware” was printed in The Guardian
    concerning her anger about a rape crisis centre’s dispute with a
    transsexual rape counselor; the article also expressed her views about
    transsexuals and transsexualism.[44] Many considered the language used to be offensive and demeaning. The Guardian
    received more than two hundred letters of complaint from transsexual
    people, doctors, therapists, academics and others. Transgender activist
    group Press for Change cite this article as an example of ‘discriminatory writing’ about transsexual people in the press.[46] Complaints focussed on the title, “Gender benders, beware”, the cartoon[47] accompanying the piece,[48] and the disparaging tone, such as “Think about a world inhabited just by transsexuals. It would look like the set of Grease”
    and “I don’t have a problem with men disposing of their genitals, but
    it does not make them women, in the same way that shoving a bit of
    vacuum hose down your 501s [jeans] does not make you a man.”[44]

    Four responses were published. Julie Hesmondhalgh, an actress who played transsexual character ‘Hayley’ in the ITV soap Coronation Street
    commented: “Men in dresses with birds’-nest hair chopping off their
    meat and two veg in order to enjoy the privileges of using the women’s
    bog or snogging their same sex partner without fear of ridicule?! Can
    someone please inform the intelligent and compassionate Julie Bindel,
    whose amazing work for Justice for Women I have long admired, that Les Battersby is using her name to masquerade as a Sun [tabloid] reporter? And that the Guardian is accidentally printing his column?”[49]

    In response to the complaints, the Guardian
    editor wrote that the newspaper received about 200 letters, and noted
    that international lobbying did not account for all of these, and that
    most condemned the views expressed in the column, the Guardian
    for publishing it, and the illustration accompanying it. Twelve of the
    letters were complaints. The editor said, “Dismay at the piece was
    registered not only by transsexual people but by doctors, therapists,
    academics and others involved in the field.”[50]
    Referring to her as “a lesbian activist for the rights of women and
    children [ … ] a rare kind of writer who puts her money where her
    mouth is,”[50]
    he explained that Bindel understood that there were problems with the
    way the article was written. He echoed the sentiments of one therapist
    in concluding, “This column, which obscured any argument in
    discriminatory language, […] abused an already abused minority that
    the Guardian might have been expected to protect.”[50]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Bindel

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    ‘Let us be free to debate transgenderism without being accused of ‘hate speech”

    “Criticism of the practice of transgenderism is being censored as a
    result of a campaign of vilification by transgender activists of anyone
    who does not accept the new orthodoxy on this issue. A recent Comment is free piece by the transgender activist Roz Kaveney, headlined “Radical feminists are acting like a cult”, criticises a forthcoming radical feminist conference,
    at which I was to be a speaker, on the grounds that I and “my
    supporters” may be guilty of “hate speech” for our political criticism
    of this practice.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/29/transgenderism-hate-speech

    So for me, there is no debate. Two things seem clear: gender dysphoria exists and treatment helps. And why ‘political criticism’?

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Radical feminists are acting like a cult”

    “Twitter has been flooded with controversy for the last week about the RadFem2012
    conference, currently booked into the Conway Hall, which announced its
    membership as restricted to “women born women and living as women” (it
    originally said “biological women”, but that got changed after much
    mockery). This disturbed the trans community, which it is meant to
    exclude, but also those feminists who regard trans-exclusion as
    something other than radical.To be clear, I know no trans women,
    still less trans men, who want to spend time in a space organized by
    people who slander us. However, one of the main speakers at the
    conference is Sheila Jeffreys, who has a forthcoming book critiquing trans medical care. In much of her earlier writing (see, for example, page 71 of this journal),
    she calls for “transsexualism” to be declared a human rights violation
    and then surgery banned by international law, so it’s fairly clear that
    we have an interest in the debate.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/25/radical-feminism-trans-radfem2012?INTCMP=SRCH&guni=Article:in%20body%20link

  • s_c_f

    In the end, fighting back is the only thing that stops the haters. And you cannot be half-hearted when you do, you must give it out more than you get, and it’s better to start with a sledgehammer. If you’re not in the mood, then best to ignore them. When you are in the mood, slam them.

    • Trans Fan and Proud

      Fighting back and proud!

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    ‘Co-author Professor Vincent Harley added: “There is a social stigma
    that transsexualism is simply a lifestyle choice, however our findings
    support a biological basis of how gender identity develops.”

    Although this is the largest genetic study of transsexualism to
    date, the researchers now plan to see if the results can be replicated
    in a larger population.

    Terry Reed from the Gender Identity Research and Education
    Society said she was convinced of a biological basis to transsexualism.

    “This study appears to reinforce earlier studies which have
    indicated that, in some trans people, there may be a genetic trigger to
    the development of an atypical gender identity.

    “However, it may be just one of several routes and, although it
    seems extremely likely that a biological element will always be present
    in the aetiology of transsexualism, it’s unlikely that developmental
    pathways will be the same in all individuals.”‘

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7689007.stm

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “Putting this into perspective, there probably isn’t a single “trans
    gene,” but perhaps a number of them, similar to the study of
    homosexuality. There may also be other routes outside of genetics
    (studies are still being done on Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals like
    DES, for example). And characteristic of genes in general, having a
    specific gene will not automatically make one trans, there are always
    other biological factors at play. I’d also tend to believe that this
    unpredictability of genetics also means that while one person may
    develop as a classic surgically-oriented transsexual, another may
    experience things to a lesser degree, and be more comfortable as a
    cross-dresser, expressing dual genders or being gender-queer. However,
    the current study doesn’t say that: only transsexuals in transition were
    accepted as volunteers; cross-dressers and others were not involved in
    the study, so we still don’t know. Either way, what we don’t want is
    for these types of discoveries to become exclusive determinants of
    treatment. In other words, this girl can transition because she has the
    elongated androgen receptor gene, but this one can’t because we haven’t
    found anything that might cause her to be transsexual, yet. Findings
    like this can just as easily be used to invalidate people as validate
    them.

    Also, one study does not equal evidence. This will need to be
    replicated by others and tested with various other elements taken into
    account, in order to be developed further. It is a start, a piece of
    the puzzle. Also, many transsexuals have been pushing to have
    transsexuality (“Gender Identity Disorder”) delisted as a psychiatric
    issue and categorized as a medical issue – although this is a relatively
    small discovery, it may provide direction for science to do exactly
    that.

    What this means to the transgender community, of course, is that it
    helps make the case for broader acceptance, although it is a little bit
    dubious to say that anyone has to be “validated” by medical discoveries.
    Even so, transgender people, especially transsexuals, depend on the
    medical system – it certainly doesn’t hurt if those medical
    professionals gradually move toward a better understanding of the
    biological model of transsexuality, and shift away from the psychiatric
    model that may grow more restrictive and stigmatizing in coming years…
    although riding the process of change of any sort does tend to be a
    little rough at times. Additionally, what it can provide to many who
    are struggling with self-acceptance is valuable.”

    http://www.gaycalgary.com/Magazine.aspx?id=61&article=617

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Posting this because, although it is about language relating to mental health issues, the point about the responsibility of journalists is exactly what I’ve been trying, in vain, to get Julie Burchill to take on board.

    ‘Language, however, is powerful. Context, intention and knowing your
    audience count for a lot in everyday chats; the level of responsibility
    shifts up many notches when you’re a journalist. As Kate Nightingale,
    head of communications at Time to Change, told me: “The media is
    extremely powerful and is consumed by millions of people every day.
    Therefore, we would encourage journalists to recognise the influence
    they have when reporting on mental health so as not to reinforce
    damaging stereotypes or create sensationalist articles which can cause
    huge distress and offence to the one in four people who will experience
    mental health problems.”‘

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2014/feb/28/mind-your-language-mental-health

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    A Challenge for Ms Burchill

    I believe:

    1. Gender dysphoria exists

    2. Treatment, including surgery, should be offered to alleviate the condition

    3. Gender identity should be respected

    Your transphobic slurs indicate that you don’t believe all/ some of the above. Current medical practice and legislation are on my side, not yours. So, if you want to change things, you need to do something about it. You’re got your shiny new column in The Spectator, start a campaign. Come out into the open and voice your concerns about 1. 2. and/or 3. above. If you’re not prepared to do that, you are in fact supporting the status quo. That gives you no right to sit on the sidelines tossing transphobic phrases like grenades.

    So, put up or shut up.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    ““But Parker,” you ask. “Aren’t there bigger issues to worry about?
    What about the startlingly high rate of trans suicide attempts, or the
    number of homeless trans youth, or the number of trans women of color
    who find themselves the victims of physical violence? Why are you so
    hung up on a word? It’s just a word.” Well, my inner devil’s advocate,
    you’re absolutely right. Those are important issues, and addressing
    those should take precedence over whether I have a panic attack after
    being called the t slur. This isn’t about panic attacks, this is about the systemic dehumanization of trans people.

    When someone is no longer treated as though they have a shred of
    humanity in them, they become easier to attack. It’s the same reason
    people often use the phrase “born a man” to describe trans women. When
    someone has a baby, finding “It’s a boy!” and “It’s a girl!” cards is no
    problem. I ask you to try to find a card that reads, “It’s a man!” You
    can’t. It’s for this reason that trans people are treated as though they
    never had the innocence brought on by childhood: it’s easier to attack
    someone if you don’t view them as ever having been “pure.” When it comes
    to morally justifying emotional and even physical attack, a man will
    always be easier to attack than a boy; a woman will always be easier to
    attack than a girl; a t slur will always be easier to attack than a human being.

    When you use these words, and when you disregard the concerns that
    have been brought to you by both trans individuals themselves as well as
    organizations like GLAAD, you contribute to those larger problems:
    homelessness, violence, poverty, and more.”

    http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2014/02/20/op-ed-its-time-stop-t-word

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “As they attack us and our ability to live, and as they mislead people
    about who we are, it is all the more likely that we shall see
    anti-transgender attacks increase. This too is why we gather for the
    Transgender Day of Remembrance: It is a reminder that we have to
    continue to fight, to struggle, and to survive.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gwendolyn-ann-smith/transgender-day-of-remembrance-rita-hester-and-beyond_b_4297938.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    ““Paris, you like it because you ARE still a YOUNG GAY BOY. And that’s what YOUNG GAY BOYS LIKE! Bless!”

    “What price the genital mutilation of a 7 year old brown-skinned girl
    child when THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD is big white blokes
    having their cocks cut off on the NHS?”

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/03/11/columnist-julie-burchill-trans-women-just-big-white-blokes-cut-genitals-cant-call-women/

    Nice to see you’re still at it, Julie Burchill. And some of us can worry about FGM and transphobia, it’s called multi-tasking. Some cis women are good at it.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    “No human who did not grow up as a girl can call themselves a woman. Any
    more than a white human can become a black human. Delude yourselves all
    you like, but in the way you lot harass born women, your bully boy side
    always shines through. And no amount of lipstick and plastic tits can
    cover that up.”

    more from the link below

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    You’ve persisted, that makes you a coward in my eyes, Ms Burchill.

    “I believe that:

    1. Gender dysphoria exists

    2. Treatment, including surgery, should be offered to alleviate the condition

    3. Gender identity should be respected

    Your transphobic slurs indicate that you don’t believe all/some of
    the above. Current medical practice and legislation are on my side, not
    yours. So, if you want to change things, you need to do something about
    it. You’re got your shiny new column in The Spectator, start a campaign.
    Come out into the open and voice your concerns about 1. 2. and/or 3.
    above. If you’re not prepared to do that, you are in fact supporting the
    status quo. That gives you no right to sit on the sidelines tossing
    transphobic phrases like grenades. If you persist, it makes you a
    coward.

    So, put up or shut up.”

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    So, here’s something that echoes my thoughts:

    “Want to be a woman? You’re in

    Here’s an idea, not mine, and not a new one. If you want to be a woman, you’re
    in. If you feel or know you are a woman even if the majority of the world
    claims you’re not, you’re in. Born with the reproductive organs of a woman?
    You’re a woman. Trans women, who struggle for the right to be recognised and
    fight against some of the highest instances of violence, depression and
    suicide in the world? Are women no less “real” than me. As John le
    Carré so astutely put it in Smiley’s People: “Society is an
    association of minorities.”

    The concept of woman is not narrow and fragile, it is robust and will take all
    comers. Its borders do not need policing. It does not threaten me, lessen
    me, or lessen anyone’s womanhood, to acknowledge other women and to hear
    their lived experience. Let’s stop this “real women” rubbish
    before it lives to poison yet another generation of writers and journalists
    – because that way of thinking is very much last century.

    Burchill comes close to admitting as much when she says of herself and her
    mates that “many of us are now staring HRT and the menopause straight
    in the face”. Getting older is a blessing – but no excuse to leave your
    thinking in the 70s. You’re not a hip young gunslinger anymore. There are
    new sheriffs in town. That’s life.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/9800041/We-dont-need-Suzanne-Moore-and-Julie-Burchill-to-police-the-borders-of-womanhood.html

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    And something else that echoes my thoughts:

    “It’s the 21st Century. Some people are born into a gender
    they don’t identify with. Get over it. Julie Burchill is a dinosaur, a
    fossil, and I hope she crawls back under whatever rock she came from.”

    http://thethirdestate.net/2013

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Julie Burchill’s writing is transphobic

    “Stonewall’s own booklet “Transgender” provides an itemized definition:

    the belief that trans women are not “real women” because they have been raised and socialised as men
    the belief that trans men are not “real men” because they do not have, or were not born with a penis
    the belief that transsexual people are actually gay people in denial
    the assumption that transgender people are “sick” or that they are psychologically unstable
    when
    a transgender person is excluded from services, activities, discussions
    or decisions because it is felt that that person doesn’t “fit in”
    the
    refusal to recognise or acknowledge the true gender of a trans person
    and the continual insistence to refer to them by their former name”
    Read more at http://www.bilerico.com/2008/11/julie_bindel_and_the_trans_vs_feminism_t.php#GgWtBqm20dJidHUs.99

  • Maxine Calder

    I believe people who commit suicide due to alleged on line bullying have other far reaching issues that contribute to their demise. That said, in order to enter this battle of words arena/playground, thick skin, a strong sense of self worth and a sense of the ridiculous seem to be the basic pre-requisites.

  • Trans Fan and Proud

    Julie Burchill, has the concept of ‘othering’ and the inherent dangers of it escaped you completely? This, this is what you are doing.

    “Othering
    is the process of casting a group, an individual or an object into the role of
    the ‘other’ and establishing one’s own identity through opposition to and,
    frequently, vilification of this Other. The Greeks’ use of the word ‘barbarian’
    to describe non-Greeks is a typical example of othering and an instance of
    nationalism avant la lèttre.
    The ease with which the adjective ‘other’ generated the verb ‘to other’ in the
    last twenty years or so is indicative of the usefulness, power and currency of
    a term that now occupies an important position in feminist, postcolonial, civil
    rights and sexual minority discourses.

    Othering
    is a process that goes beyond ‘mere’ scapegoating and denigration – it denies
    the Other those defining characteristics of the ‘Same’, reason, dignity, love,
    pride, heroism, nobility, and ultimately any entitlement to human rights.
    Whether the Other is a racial or a religious group, a gender group, a sexual
    minority or a nation, it is made rife for exploitation, oppression and indeed
    genocide by denying its essential humanity, because, as the philosopher Richard
    Rorty put it, “everything turns on who counts as a fellow human being, as a
    rational agent in the only relevant sense – the sense in which rational agency
    is synonymous with membership of our moral community” (Rorty, 1993, p. 124).”

    http://www.yiannisgabriel.com/

  • http://www.biggerfatterpolitics.blogspot.com BiggerFatterPolitics

    How to Combat Fat Shaming Click Here

    People need to grow up and stop living to be offended but instead have a witty comeback. I OINK at them and smile.

    I defend my gluttony!!

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