Features

Israelis don’t care that we hate them. But they’d like to know why

Travels in the Millwall of the Middle East

15 March 2014

9:00 AM

15 March 2014

9:00 AM

 Jerusalem

 

Talking to Israelis feels a bit like talking to fans of Millwall FC. ‘No one likes us, we don’t care,’ sing Millwall fans. Israel is the undoubted Millwall of global affairs, loathed by almost every Westerner who considers himself decent and they’ve adopted a similar cri de coeur. ‘Europe doesn’t like us. Americans do not like us. We can live with this,’ says a kippah-wearing guy at the Western Wall. He sums up a sentiment I hear across this country.

If you were in Iran or North Korea, long-time chart-toppers in the international community’s gallery of rogue states, you wouldn’t bat an eyelid when a citizen expressed disgruntlement with the wicked West. But Israel? This tiny nation was for so long the West’s best bud in the Middle East; a bright democratic outpost in an otherwise autocratic desert. To hear Israelis speak ill of the West, to see them raise their eyes to the heavens at every mention of the United Nations or the European Union, feels weird.

Everywhere I go, people wonder out loud why the West, especially Europe’s chattering classes, hates them so. Israel is being treated like a ‘pariah state’, says Uri Dromi, executive director of the Jerusalem Press Club and former spokesman for the Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres governments.

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‘Europe doesn’t like us,’ he says, and now I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard that said. Dromi has a striking theory as to why our governments are now so sniffy about his ‘shitty little country’ (remember that French diplomat in 2001?). It’s because, he says, we’ve had a hike in Muslim immigration which forces us to adopt anti-Israel postures in a bid to ‘quieten new arrivals’.

At the Northern Command of the Israel Defence Force, a commander who oversees Israel’s borders with Syria and Lebanon puffs audibly, and a little sadly, whenever the UN is mentioned. He tells me Israel has taken 800 injured Syrians over its borders over the past couple of years, treated them in its hospitals, and then sent them back to Syria with medication erased of all Hebrew branding, lest a jihadist see it and go mental. But he says all this with forlorn look that says: ‘I know you’re not going to report this. You people never do.’

A senior Israeli official agrees about our anti-Semitism. Over lunch in Tel Aviv he says that too many Westerners now hold the Jewish state to a standard they apply to no one else. ‘It’s bigotry, nothing else.’ And increasingly, it isn’t only trendy leftists with Arafat posters in their bedrooms and keffiyehs around their necks who talk up boycotts against Israel. The US Secretary of State John Kerry has warned of ‘boycotts and other kinds of things’ if Israel doesn’t engage with his new peace talks openly. He now stands accused of blackmail here in Israel, even of unwittingly aiding anti-Semitism.

No doubt those who have an issue with the Jews will put all this pariah talk down to paranoia. After all, Israel is still funded by the US to the tune of $3 billion a year, and it enjoys diplomatic relations with all western governments. Yet those outward continuities in the official western relationship with Israel disguise some huge shifts in western sentiment.

Last year, a BBC World Service global survey found that Israel was the fourth most ‘negatively viewed’ nation in the world, after Iran, Pakistan and North Korea. In only one western country — America — did a majority express favourable views of Israel, and even there it was only 51 per cent; so much for the US being in the back pocket of some creepy Israel lobby. Out of EU nations, Britain was found to have the most unfavourable view: 72 per cent of Brits surveyed felt negatively about Israel, more than in that hotbed of populist anti-Zionism, France (63 per cent), and way more than in the country in which so much of the Holocaust was carried out, Poland (44 per cent).

Israel is a rogue state for the right-on. It’s the state that it’s super hip to hate. But why? Israel-bashers will say, ‘Duh, it’s because of its crazy military antics,’ but that doesn’t add up. Israel’s militarism today is of a far smaller order than it was during the Six-Day War of 1967, and back then most Westerners, including radical leftists, supported the Zionist project.

The most interesting explanation I hear for Israel’s unpopularity among latte-sippers  comes from Richard Pater, a political analyst from Radlett who has lived in Israel for the past 15 years. (Israel has loads of Jews from boring bits of Britain who have taken the quite wise decision to act on their right to migrate to this far warmer, more exotic part of the world.) ‘The lesson many in the West took from the Holocaust is that nationalism is bad; the message Jews took from it is that nationalism is necessary.’

This cuts to the heart of today’s fashionable disdain for little Israel. What many Westerners seem to find most nauseating is that Israel is cocky, confident and committed to preserving its national sovereign rights against all-comers. In short, it’s a lot like we used to be before relativism and anti-modernism. I think that Israel reminds us of our older selves, our pre-EU, pre-green days, when we, too, believed in borders, sovereignty, progress, growth.

Now that it’s de rigueur in the right-thinking sections of western society to be post–nationalist and multicultural, to be fashionably uncertain about one’s national identity, the sight of a border-fortifying state offends and outrages us. In the words of George Gilder, author of The Israel Test, Israel is now hated more for its virtues than for its political or militaristic vices. It’s hated for remaining devoted to ‘freedom and capitalism’ when we’re all supposed to be snooty about such things.

If Israel is unofficially being made into a pariah state, it isn’t because of its foreignness, or even necessarily its Jewishness, but rather because it is too western for our liking. We loathe it because we loathe ourselves.

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Show comments
  • Sean Grainger

    I haven’t read this yet but it’s the appalling BBC especially the well up-itself Today that hates them not us lot.

    • ROBERT BROWN

      Rest assured, the BBC and it’s uni ‘indoctrinated’ staff of miserable, self-hating morons hate Britain as much as they do Israel. They pander to and gush over muslims and any wretched third-world import to the detriment of our own people. What on earth is it with these creatures? George Galloway, Jenny Tonge and the rest of the weird, racist scum that infest their own land and then puff themselves up to be self-righteous, crusading saints deserve a visit from Mossad, with as much pain and suffering as they can muster.

      • allymax bruce

        What you see on the outside, is the reverse of what’s going on, on the inside. Deception is what Zionists use to con us. Just look at how they’ve ‘managed’ their politicians; complete and utter liars.

      • Alexbensky

        On the other hand, Robert, I can see Jenny Tonge asking that rumors of the Israel medial mission in Haiti being a mask for organ harvesting although yeah, that does come pretty close to the blood libel. But I can see her asking. It turns out organs harvested under such conditions would be useless but maybe the Israelis didn’t know that. After all, how easy is it to find a Jewish doctor?

    • Freda Bothwell

      We MUST see the Balen report s there some way of forcing the BBC to reveal it? THey have paid hundreds of thousands to hide it from the public which says to me that they are a guilty as Hell.

  • Chris Marker

    One only must peruse the pages of the Talmud to understand why, historically, people have come to deride the deeds of ‘God(s) chosen people’.

    • La Fold

      By that do you mean the modern state of Israel or is that a dig at the “Yids” as a whole?

    • Nana bella

      Really? Why? But you know what, we are not God’s chosen people, since this kind of god described in the Bible is a fantasy anyway. God is everywhere in everything, in you as much as in me. If a certain group of people chose itself for a task, that’s their story. We did so much less damage than missionary Christianity or imperialistic Islam …. and so much damage was done unto us…Many nations around the planet have chosen themselves in many ways. Let go of this obsession. I’m a 4th generation secular Jew on one side and proud of it. And proud to be a ZIonist.

    • geronimoooo4

      ahhhhh, a REAL anti-semite:

      = it’s the jews’ own fault if anti-Semitism exists and they ended up in gas chambers and ovens because of their ‘jewish chosen-ness and actions’ =

      thank you for your support of the Israeli Defence Forces, with the purchase of your laptop and mobile phone. Next time you’re sick, stay home. Most medical breakthroughs and technologies can all be eventually linked to a jew!

      Have a nice life jew-free life (if you can tehehe)

    • Michael Sager

      I do peruse it. And have no idea what you are talking about.
      So I’ll offer you a piece of Talmud, from Ethics of our Fathers.
      Rabbi Shimon the son of Gamliel would say: By three things is the world sustained: law, truth and peace.

    • Yossi

      Hold on everyone! Chris here sounds like a “Talmudic” expert. Well Chris, I am sitting next to my 22 Volumed copy of the Talmud. I am quite well versed in its words. I would like you, for the sake of honesty and truth, to tell us, which pages or words in the Talmud have made you come to the conclusion that you did.

  • MikeF

    I don’t hate Israel – every country has its faults but I support and admire it. Shalom.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Me too!

      Long live Israel.

  • Jambo25

    I don’t hate Israel. Nobody I personally know does. Anyone who has ever visited the Middle East knows the huge series of differences between Israel and the rest and its not to the rest’s favour. When you move from Egypt or numerous other Arab states, to Israel, you are moving from 3rd World tips to a recognisably prosperous, progressive and civilised country. Israel is superior to its Arab neighbours in virtually every way.
    Do not mistake the weirdness of Muslims, certain sections of the left and the media with the population as a whole.

    • Tom M

      Second that.

    • JoshuaCzajkowski

      I third that. Israel is a bastion of liberty surrounded by a sea of oppression and dictatorship. The only nation in the middle-east where you’d want to live if you were a woman or a homosexual…or a man….or just a person who places freedom, democracy and dignity over hatred, tyrants and oppression.

      Britain and the rest of Europe(Or just Europe depending on your view point) should hang our and their heads in shame for constantly turning our back on Israel in favour of the dignity-draining grovelling for mid-east oil.

      • Jambo25

        I was in Israel about 18 months ago and got talking to a few Arab Christians who were surprisingly enthusiastic Israeli citizens and realised that their lot was far better served in Israel than in any existing Arab state.

        • Bobloblaw67

          It isn’t just the Christians. Recently when Lieberman suggested that in exchange for Israeli control of West Bank settlements, the Palestinian authority could get control of Arab areas of northern Israel, Arab MKs went ballistic. The idea of Arab Israelis living under Palestinian authority was revolting to them.

          • Jambo25

            I didn’t know that but I’m not surprised.,

          • TeachESL

            Yup, that’s true.

          • disqus_TbIHwS5b9A

            Isreal shouldn’t give up anything! Especially anything in the north, they would lose their strategic advantage of the Golan Hts.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            You mean the illegal land grab (Golan Heights), which they plotted to steal when they were supposed to be following a peace agreement. The land grab that was accidently interrupted by the American naval intelligence ship (US Liberty) in International waters. Since they (IDF) were worried the US would intercept communication during the illegal land grab, they spent 7 hours trying to sink the clearly marked US Liberty with air strikes and torpedoes, killing 34 Americans and wounding 171 others, even shooting the life rafts (War crime) the Americans deployed to escape the attack. Do you mean the Syrian lands of the Golan Heights? …that is now illegally occupied by Israel? …that Golan Hts?

          • Samir Halabi

            If they gave the Golan back, snipers would be out in force shooting at the Israeli farmers below as they did before the 1967 war. So your talking out of your backside.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            I can totally appreciate your reference to history as your justification for stealing land from neighboring Arab Nations.

            I suppose I can also justify, in exactly the same way the complete removal of Jews from civilization, as they have been removed from European countries 109 times in recent history, for being greedy, usurious, thieving, lying parasites to every single nation they’ve gotten their filthy hands into.

            After all, if you don’t know your history, you’re damned to repeat it!.

            Lets take what’s happening at the ECB (Jew Banking criminal empire) in Frankfurt as an example of another ejection of usurious, thieving Jew bankers.

            Jews bring upon themselves the “Persecution” and always have. Wake up and stop being such assholes already, and people will welcome you instead of hate you.
            For now, just get the F out of MY country.

          • passionflower3

            THE LAND DID NOT BELONG TO THE ARABS IN THE FIRST PLACE ,GOD GAVE THE LAND TO ISRAEL,IT DOES NOT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND HE HAS CLEARLY MARKED HER BORDERS,NOW SATAN HAS TWISTED THAT TRUTH ,BUT ,THE FACT REMAINS GOD IS GOD

          • Donna Ross

            passionflower3, 1) Israel has NEVER, EVER defined its BORDERS! 2) Israel is currently in violation of 77 UN resolutions. 3) Few if ANY Jews living in Israel/Palestine have DNA that is Semitic. Most are Ashkenazi Jews who were originally pagans from Khazaria and CONVERTED to Judaism in 740 CE. 4) The descendants of the TRUE Semites of the Bible are the Christian and Muslim Palestinians. ALL ARABS ARE Semites, but few Jews are Semites!

          • Guest

            Guess what, everybody knows the TRUTH now. We are in the age of KNOWING. You have no more claim to that land than the man in the moon. If you really want to get technical, BLACK AFRICAN’S were the first ones there to lay claim. All of you people are INVADERS.

            “Hebrew” was neither a race nor a language at the time they claim. Those Old Testament stories must be scrutinized. Why won’t you investigate your belief? How can you be so gullible when the TRUTH is there to be examined? Do you know that these “allegories” have been copied from other sources LONG before they were mentioned in the bible?
            Why are you so afraid of REAL HISTORY?
            Article 86 – Hebrew

            Canon 6042 (link)
            The modern alphabetic language known as Hebrew was first formed in the 4th Century CE by the scribes of the Babylon Yahsiva (Academy) upon the direction of Balkhan Baba Rabban of the Aryans through the mathematical modification and revival of Urgarit Syrian language (Canaanite) – a largely extinct language that had been overshadowed through the introduction of Aramaic by the Assyrian Empire (934 – 610 BCE).

            Canon 6043 (link)
            Any and all claims that the Hebrew language is older than the 4th Century CE are deliberately false, relying upon either fraudulent history as the case of the 60+ year re-assembly of the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the deliberate interpretation of Eblaite, Urgaritic or Aramaic artefacts as examples of early Hebrew.

            Canon 6044 (link)
            The original name for the language of Hebrew created in the 4th Century CE by Baba Rabban was not the word Hebrew, but the Persian word Ibri/Ebri meaning “the path (of knowledge); the crossing (to knowledge)”. The word “Hebrew” is a 16th Century fraud as there did not exist prior to this time a word in either Greek or Latin equivalent to “Hebrew” (language). Instead, scribes of the Venetian Magyar-Khazar merely took the names for Ireland and Spain in Ancient Greek and Latin then corrupted them to create the word “Hebrew”

          • Cathy

            I won’t insult you, but you are so wrong it’s embarassing to me. The whites of Europe are the Israels. When Jesus said he came only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel where did his disciples go? They went to EUROPE and ASIA MINOR where all the white folks lived. Not one of them went to freaking cush or ethiopia. You are of the land of voodoo, stop trying to steal our God and our religion or God will punish you greatly.

          • Guest

            You are the one who should be embarrassed. Study TRUE history and not a page from a manufactured one. I know you WISH you were chosen by your GOD, but clearly TURKS converted to this religion for the benefits. YOU ARE NOT FROM AFRICA and that’s where it started. EGYPT is in AFRICA and so was what they call the Middle East back then. Jesus didn’t come from ANYWHERE except from myth and Ancient Egyptians/NUbians taken from HORUS/HERU. The Greeks and Romans who invaded Africa took it and twisted it. Please go to YOUTUBE and watch Zeitgeist: The Movie LINK: /youtu.be/pTbIu8Zeqp0 Zeitgeist: THE MOVIE. IT might OPEN YOUR BLIND EYES. You were born with all the spirituality that GOD mean’t for you to have and MAN GAVE YOU ORGANIZED RELIGION. IT is a twisted copy of ANCIENT AFRICAN SPIRITUALITY. I am sure you will REJECT this idea without investigating. Please DO SOME RESEARCH because in 2015, I can not BELIEVE that you actually think NOAH’S ARK was REAL. I can’t believe that you still think white people were enslaved by BLACK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS… WHAT A CROCK!!! LEARN REAL HISTORY. Also, please google ” WHO IS THIS KING OF GLORY” by Alvin Boyd KUHN. You can get it from archive dot org. A SCIENTIST READS 1000 BOOKS AND STILL UNDERSTANDS THAT HE HAS MUCH MORE TO LEARN. A RELIGIOUS PERSON READS ONE AND THINKS HE KNOWS IT ALL… EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!! WAKE UP OUT OF YOUR COMA!!! YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!!! GOD DID NOT CHOOSE YOU FOR A DAMNED THING!!! IT is nothing but a TOOL to secure WHITE SUPREMACY AND WORLD DOMINATION. You think you can just take over someone elses country and kill them all because GOD SAID SO. ARE YOU SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER??? CHECK OUT ANCIENT AFRICAN SPIRITUALITY… THERE THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE YOUR BELIEF !!! Look at it AND THEN COME BACK HERE AND TELL ME THAT YOU DO NOT SEE THAT THEY ARE THE SAME THING!!! Greeks and Romans turned a fictional character to present the divinity in man into A WALKING TALKING PERSON THAT NEVER ACTUALLY EXISTED!!! All of those stories were TOLD LONG BEFORE a BIBLE, however the people who wrote them KNEW IT WAS ALLEGORY!!! WAKE THE HELL UP. You can’t embarrass me! You should be embarrassed for thinking YOU ARE CHOSEN BY GOD and EVERYBODY ELSE IS IN YOUR WAY!!! What an IDIOT!!!

          • Cathy

            Genesis 10:6…Africans are of Ham. It’s in the Bible for all to see. Of course I won’t watch a movie that goes against the Bible, you are correct. Where did I say Noahs ark was real? You’re right, much is allegory, about the Europeans. Blacks are the scum of the earth and always will be. You will always be ruled over by others if other races are around you. With your average IQ of 65 in Sub Saharan Africa you will not ever be able to assimilate to a great degree into a civilized society. And, blacks enslaved whites too in the Barbary Slave trade, how convienient you don’t mention your crimes against us. But no, you will be the eternal whiners because you can’t measure up so you will blame it on slavery. Have you ever seen ONE white blame their lives on slavery at the hands of you blacks or others? Hell no, we get to work and build a life instead of pretending we are victims. You are not victims, you are scrum.

          • Guest

            Would you please stop using that BOOK OF FABLES as if it’s ACTUAL HISTORY, YOU IDIOT!!!

          • Cathy

            You blacks are so predictable and that is why you are so easily controlled by others. You blacks say the Bible is about you until it’s proven it can’t be. Then you backtrack greatly. Your link is a hoax to make you blacks feel better about yourselves. All you have to do to feel better is simple. Pull up your pants and obey the law. Get a job and give this advice to your brothers and sisters who riot in the streets when a robber gets killed by a cop. Good day.

          • Guest

            You are obviously a racist as well as an idiot. Walking around delusional as if you are superior when in fact you are a genetically WEAK, DISEASED, CORRUPTED DNA, inbred, lying, cheating, stealing, Taye-Sach’s, genetically inferior, puss bubble. Before you call someone anti-semitic, you would need to be a semite. Last time I checked, you are a european and not SEMI(MIXED) anything. FRAUD!!! Your high risk of diseased skin and genetic weakness wouldn’t allow you to survive as a slave under that African heat… DUMMY. EXODUS is in your imagination and none of it is real. You are not SPECIAL! However, you do have a long line of SPECIAL GENETIC DISEASES you have to worry about.

            I guarantee you that Hitler thought YOU were the SCUM OF THE EARTH and he proved it. Yet, after your people were lead to death showers due to what the world thought was justified, YOU STILL HAVE THE AUDACITY to perpetuate that SAME FILTHY mind set on others. You of all people should KNOW BETTER! Let me tell you something you mental midget… When people say JEW me, it is equal to saying ..”CHEAT me”. You have a legacy of lying, cheating and stealing your way through society. Jews enslaved Africans and that is why Farrakhan is hated by you people. He speaks the TRUTH! You are a fraud and won’t admit to your EVIL WAYS.

            When you are lined up to walk into a death chamber, then that means someone else has FULL CONTROL over you. Chosen to DIE at the hands of a mad man? And you still don’t get it. You talk about Africa but forget about the DIAMONDS, MINERALS and GOLD that your kind CONTINUE to STEAL and PLUNDER at gunpoint. You invaded Israel and committed genocide…TAKING someone elses land as if you had a right to it. Something is WRONG WITH YOU! Give them back their SHYT and let’s see who controls who. You take the spiritual goodness of people and see it as a weakness to use against them. This is why Native American’s were wiped out. You demonize a people and create a holy book to justify it. Hitler had his Mien Kampf and you have EXODUS.

            I feel sorry for you. You just don’t get it and you probably never will. You are not special. Many of those stories are FABLE, ALLEGORY and MYTH from long ago. For some reason, your kind latched on to it and you pretend it is real in order to justify evil and promote riches that do not belong to you. This can be proven to those who seek truth. Greed, selfishness, racism, mass incarceration, history vampire, culture vulture, manufactured virus’ spreader, hatred perpetuator, psychopathic behavior…. The WORLD has been RUINED by people LIKE YOU ! Psychopaths are running this planet. However if Nature is GOD, it won’t last much longer. Climate Change will put an END TO IT. Most of the people on the planet are people of color. People like YOU are only a small fraction. People of color absorb the sun. Let Nature take it’s course. Nature is GOD.

          • Guest

            And stop talking to me because you are now placed on IGNORE STATUS.

          • odette pellis

            And pigs fly. Your bible is fiction. Netanyu is an animal. The next holcaust will rectify things .- and the jews will cry. Pity.

          • DerekJR321

            God told me one that I deserve 100 billion dollars. So… where is it? I mean.. come on.. god said it. He said Jews should all send me $100. Get to it people. God said so.

          • Jerry Hamilton

            If you were to prove God is real, you might have a credible statement there.

          • Cathy

            If God isn’t real then the god damned jews have NO right to Israel.

          • Jerry Hamilton

            You do have a very strong point.
            Put that with the fact that Palestine was stolen by Britain and traded to traded to the Jews for a bail out in WW1. (The Balfour declaration.)……. Anyone smell something rotten?

          • Eli Huerta

            God never gave shit to those animals!

          • Eli Huerta

            HA dumb goyim go eat shit and be a good bitch!

          • Frederick Cross

            THERE IS NO GOD YOU DUMB RELIGEOUS SCUMBAG FOR ANYONE TO GIVE THE LAND TOO.

          • Cathy

            YOU LIAR. God clearly gave the land to ABRAHAM, it did not include the fake kharzaran joos. You are either a joo or immersed in the evil scolfield bible notes. Either way, you are deluded, a liar and a thief and I can’t wait until God destroys you right in front of me.

          • Jerry Hamilton

            I doubt that you would find a rocket scientist who believes in your imaginary god friend.

          • Yvonne Kennedy

            Rocket scientists know that God didn’t give you the land. They don’t have imaginary friends, or steal other people’s homes, so don’t need fairy tales to justify theivery.

          • Samir S. Halabi

            The Jewish refugees thrown out of the Arab-world owed real estate 4 times the Size of Israel today. Everything was stolen from them. We numbered 1,000,000 which was hundred of thousands more than the Arab refugees from the former British mandate of Palestine. The British White Paper in 1939 prevented large scale Jewish refugees from Nazi persecution and death from entering the land, however, turned a blind eye from Arabs entering Palestine illegally seeking a better life in Palestine, which was built up by the hard work and sweat of the Jews.

          • Basiclife1

            No, but it does take an idiot to believe that a document written 2000 years ago should have any bearing on a modern day land dispute…

          • Cathy

            You’re so correct, but, thanks to the evil scolfield bible the American Christians think if they don’t back jooville that God will punish them. I despise the joos, for I know history.

          • passionflower3

            any land taken from the land gave israel ,the apple of his eye ,will be given back to them,irregardless of any islamic mumbo jumbo.

          • Eli Huerta

            That land was never given to they’re animal people the torah is full of lies like your not human buddy goyim!

          • Cathy

            There is NO such word as IRREGARDLESS you dumb hateful *unt. The word is REGARDLESS. Learn English or go to whatever country you’re from and talk and write there.

          • passionflower3

            any land taken from Israel,the apple of Gods eye will be returned to her ,all the manipulation ,korans, hadiths ,muslims cannot stand up to the one HOLY GOD ,THE DEVIL COULDNT THEN, AND MAY BE TRYING BUT HE WILL NEVER EVER SUCCEED.

          • MunnyOwl

            Your god isn’t real and when you die you will rot in the ground

          • Eli Huerta

            The people of god they’re not people god buddy they’re just animals with no souls!

          • DerekJR321

            You mean like the IDF does to Palestinian children every day?

          • Cathy

            I don’t give a *hit if snipers kill off all the joos. Joos are murderous scoundrels the world over, and I hate them as anyone with a brain and knowledge of their history should and would.

          • Donna Ross

            Canuck4antimuslimworld, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! Do you also know about The Lavon Affair? How about Count Flocke Bernadotte? I could go on and on…

          • passionflower3

            if they give up any of their land ,bc of intimidation ,God help the son of perdition that engages in taking Gods land,i fear this holy GOD,A reverent fear.what judgement will come upon ,for ex the usa,finally

          • Guest

            You sound like a damned fool!

          • Cathy

            God help those who caused the Lavon affair and the USS Liberty.

        • passionflower3

          exactly,they would be shot if they went next door

        • MunnyOwl

          Liar

        • marxistgulag

          I wonder why,bull.

      • Bob339

        Well, you can always go and live there – provided you are jewish.
        (You will not be allowed to marry a jewish girl there of course – if you are not jewish. But that is not racial prejudice – God Forbid! If you are black of course you will have to be sterilized, but what the hell?)

        • geronimoooo4

          BS
          BS
          BS
          BS

          anymore lies?

          p.s. every single ‘point’ above, can be looked up online and proven to be a complete lie and propaganda

          usually this sort of lies come from fanatical Muslims
          are you a fanatical Muslim ‘Bob’?
          don;t you have a sister to rape and a brother to behead?
          or those ‘death to Israel’ placards, aren’t going to paint themselves, you know

        • Alexbensky

          Bob, I want to respond to your allegations in a neutral and academic manner, choosing my words carefully to make my point objectively and the best I can do is, you are repeating or making up complete, absolute falsities. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, in what you say.

          Since each of the established religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Druze) sees to domestic relations for its own group and Israel does not yet have domestic civil marriage then yes, if a Druze wants to marry a Christian or a Jew wants to marry a Muslim, they have to go elsewhere, and Cyprus gets a lot of Israeli traffic for that very reason.

          But such marriage…including gay marriages…are fully recognized in Israel.

          As to racism., whatever Zionism is, it’s not racist, and by the way, whatever Israeli society is, it’s not remotely like apartheid. In any case, you might want to look up “Beta Israel” or “Ethiopian Jews,” (also called “Falashas” but they don’t like that name).

          The Israelis have been turning back some refugees but not because they’re black, it’s because Israel doesn’t see why uniquely it’s supposed to take care of them.

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            Amen! Someone on here with knowledge and a functioning brain. kudos to you!
            The level of ignorance and closed minded arrogance within some of these posts is downright offensive…
            Regards,
            SRA

          • John Kinory

            Yes, antisemitism often is …

          • Bob339

            Antisemitism is defined as the feeling aroused among jews when they are caught with their grubby hands in the till. (See: Madoff, Libor,Bank bonuses, supermarket prices, Tory party et al).

          • John Kinory

            QED.
            What a failed multicellular organism you are.

          • Bob339

            What a vulgar, uneducated turd your mother raised. No wonder your father legged it.

          • John Kinory

            Yes, the classic antisemitic loser.

          • Bob339

            So is it back home to Israel for you then? How sad. We will miss you.

          • La Fold

            So, just how many tin foil hats do you go through in a month?

          • Bob339

            Does you mum know you play on the internet?

          • La Fold

            Course she does, but unlike you im not watching dodgy japanese wille thorn in a darkened room whilst chatting on stormfront ye zoomer!

          • Samir Halabi

            And how many non-Jews are also caught with their hands in the till. How stupid can you get. So antisemitism is justified when a Jew is caught with his hand in the till. There is good and bad among all people whatever their gender, religion or ethnicity.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            The problem is TOO MANY JEWS ARE CRIMINALS. Only 1.7% of the population yet responsible for over 90% of the financial crimes in the United States, perhaps even 99% of the problems in the world when you take into account the domino effects their crimes have had on the global financial markets and economies. Jews are by nature parasites, criminals, and seek to make a living on the backs of others. It is no myth or anti-semetic “canard” because that is exactly what they have been kicked out of over 109 European countries for. If people are “anti-semetic” it is because jews are “anti-humanity”.

          • Alexbensky

            I am Jewish and can speak only for myself, but it’s an honor to be hated by people like you. I’d worry if we weren’t.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Is it also and honor to be hated by all of Europe? How about 1.5 billion muslim people around the world? How about the Australian people who are pissed off jews are trying to open their borders to a flood of illegal aliens? How about so many Americans that ask why is our country giving money to a bunch of POS jews in Israel when our economy is crumbing? How 71 million people of Iran that are asking why is that psycho jew Netayahu allowed to have 300+ nuclear weapons and threaten the world with the samson option but we Iranians can’t defend ourselves from them with 1 bomb? How about every luminary, every educated individual, every person waking up day after day that is coming to the conclusion that blood sucking leeches and parasites in Israel are destroying world stability, peace, and economies? Sure, be proud to be hated by the entire world, after all the entire world is wrong and the slimy thieving crook jews spread throughout the financial world are all innocent “chosen” crooks who just happen to be caught stealing cause “anti-semetism” forced them to do it. You are definitive proof that jews are toxic to the world, only a complete POS worries if he isn’t hated by people of the world because only a complete POS knows why.

          • mike myrick

            I love your spirit

          • Abby Joseph

            I second that Alex…

          • Prophetic

            Your people represent an outdated colonial attitude of oppression, which has been strategically planned throughout the 20th century. Your people are economists responsible for the continuation of many wars for profit. The problem is you have not evolved past the concept of capital over human life. the death and genocidal attempts over the Palestinians will be a stain on your culture. Here in Ireland we know what oppression and racism is. The British were not nearly as cruel and malicious as the cancerous state of Israel, and that was nearly a century ago. You are modern day Nazis, just a a lot sneakier with your fingers in a lot more money pies. Many Empires were nice to live in, but its hard to hide the soil stained red with the blood.

          • Prowler Prowler

            זעקת הקוזאק הגוזל! עוד ערבוש

          • Prowler Prowler

            spoken like a true islamonazi

          • Giuseppe Conlon

            Spoken like a true Israeli… “prowler”? Hmm.

            There are very good reasons the Jews have been expelled from at least 109 countries since 250 AD. And, with your recent behaviour on the World stage, you can expect that number to roughly double in the next ten years or so. But that CAN be avoided.

            Here are a few simple tips you may want to pass on to your “leaders”, should you/they wish to avoid such consequences (These tips also apply to your useful non-Jewish government lackeys within the U.S. government, and the E.U. government):

            1) Quit meddling with Ukraine.
            2) Quit meddling with Syria.
            3) Quit meddling with Iran
            4) Quit meddling with Russia
            5) Get your operatives OUT of the U.S. and E.U. governments.

            I could go on for quite some time, but time does not permit.
            Suffice to say that some of us are quite aware of what is ACTUALLY going on in this world. We know better than to get information from the “news networks”, whom your people own, lock-stock-and-barrel, and use as a stage to create illusion and to deceive the masses. And many of us have no difficulty in discerning truth from fiction. They both “have a certain ring to them”, after all…

            I am not merely stating all this for my own good and comfort, or the rest of humankind’s, the world over, for that matter. Although they certainly are due some respect, as well. It is ALSO for your own good. And I sincerely mean this. But, should you ignore this advice, I can assure you that the entire world will turn on you, and in relatively short order. The writing is clearly on the wall, as I’m sure you’ve been noticing. These good people do not simply single out others and turn on them for no good reason. Thus, please don’t bother with hurling the usual childish labels and insults. At this juncture, those just serve to further underscore a large part of the problem. Professional Victimhood is NOT a flattering attribute, and will not serve you well for extended periods of time.

            Oh — and one other item to note: That 9/11 thing is quite likely to come back to haunt you as well. How foolish that was…

            Best Regards,
            G

          • GuessWho

            pshhhhh.
            perfect example of how low IQ goes along with supporting isIamic filth.

          • Eli Huerta

            Your a monkey don’t give me that shit you have a low iq your dumbed then a hebrew don’t give me that shit!

          • Cathy

            Low IQ my foot. We got your number you freaking joos, we got your number. You can’t fool us any more and I’ll be dancing when Israel is destroyed just like the jews were dancing and filming the trade towers going down. You’re a phucking parasite and always have been. You will NOT win. Oh, we white may not win, but trust me, those Chinese will not fall for your guilt trips. I hope you all die, and the sooner the better.

          • GuessWho

            VERY low IQ Apparently.
            Why don’t you relax , give the ol’ camel some sweet lovin’ and stop hating the more successful.
            Life will be a lot nicer.

          • http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/324/324.2/hizballah/ Sons of Ares

            If only Italians were as enterprising at the Jews, you know?

          • Donna Ross

            Giuseppe Conlon, wherever you are, I agree with everything except 9/11. I know, I know, somebody saw 5 Israelis celebrating the destruction of the WTC. They supposedly worked for a moving van company owned by the Mossad. I know. I, too, heard that story but I am NOT convinced about that one. Maybe if it is true that they were celebrating, they were simply thinking, “oh, good, maybe NOW the rest of the world will understand what we, Israelis have to put up with constantly.” (I don’t know for sure, but, again, even if it is true that 5 Israelis were celebrating, I doubt it proves anything. Maybe they were just demented people?) Also, if anything it had the OPPOSITE effect. LOTS of people decided we need to STOP our BLIND support for Israel after 9/11 and START helping the Palestinians! Jews are, if nothing else, SMART! If, as you say, Israel was behind 9/11, WHY ON EARTH WOULD ISRAELIS BE OPENLY CELEBRATING??? If Israel was behind 9/11, wouldn’t Israel do its best to HIDE that? Do you actually think a bunch of Israeli moving van workers would be privy to such top secret information? Are you out of your mind? Don’t you know that something like 9/11 would only be known to a handful of the very TOP people in Israel, not a bunch of flunky moving van men?

          • Ger

            Spot on brother.

          • Eli Huerta

            Your guys are not human!

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            the truth always hurts, doesn’t it? You must be another AshkeNAZI Jew, right? …with NO legitimate claim to Israel. In fact you know that too don’t you. That’s why you’re murdering the last remaining “Biblical Israelites” the bible speaks of …the Palestinians. They are biblical Israelites, and they never left Israel.

            Just wait until the world learns the truth about the holocaust.
            You’re gig is almost up ashkeNAZI.

          • Eli Huerta

            Just anniliate they’re people and get it over with Allah!

          • Prowler Prowler

            so i hope your mother get raped & then the rapist call your mother and accuse here of raping him, because that’s the comparison you just did there li’l islamonazi, you use gobbles propaganda & twist lies, i smile when i think you probably live in an arab dictatorship when you cant speak your mind dips#it.

          • SOMARA556

            You don’t have the authority to speak for irish people, I am irish and I don’t share your antisemitism or hatred for Israel.

          • BOWERYSTAN

            erin go bragh .

          • Eli Huerta

            HEbrew are not semitic irish nigger!

          • mobsie666

            That’s probably because you’re part of the protestant invasion force that has to contrast itself against the apartheid on display in Israel. To hold Israel to account you would have to hold your history to account.

          • Samir Halabi

            Who the hell do you think you are to to slander Israel as a Nazi State, Eamon de Valera the President of Southern Ireland during world war two barred the way for Jewish refugees escaping Nazi tyranny to enter Ireland. He was a Nazi sympathizer. may he rot in hell!!!

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            You need to stop blaming the world for retaliating against YOUR ill behavior toward us all. If you don’t like how the world views you, try looking in the mirror for once, and you just may see the ugly truth about your religion (not a race). If and only when YOU see YOU are the assholes of the world, and you change your ways, will you be treated the way you wish to be treated. Yes, Jews ARE to blame for your behavior. Wake the F up already.
            P.S. NAZI comes from AshkeNAZI Jews…as in a nation of Judean converts from 7th century Khazaria. A demonic race that converted to Talmudic Judaism, because Christianity and Islam frown upon “usury”, …the life blood of modern Jewry. Rather than change your ways back then, you chose a way to condone your actions and behavior. Therefore, the only reason one “Chooses” the “religion” of Judaism, is out of greed, serfdom and usury.

          • Jonah Corren

            I don’t understand where all you comments about all Jews being bad are coming from. They were kicked out of Europe originally because:

            a) Biblical and historical anti-Semitism.
            b) People didn’t trust money lenders; the reason Jews did tend to be money lenders was because they were the best jobs left when the Jews arrived in those countries.

            The Jews in general are not bad people. The Zionists also aren’t bad people. There just are bad Jews, just like every other race and demographic have bad people. Sadly, the bad Jews seem to get noticed more than others.

            Your hate for the Jews is borne of a need to hate someone. The media has given you an easy option, a ‘popular’ nation to hate. Don’t be naive.

          • Eli Huerta

            It is a nazi state they just annilated your fucken race of people animal!

          • PedoProhet

            Hey ADOLPH
            “colonial attitude of oppression” is what brought these filthy ragheads to Israel in the first place.
            They should be sent back to their sandy homeland of saudi , where they will be free to butcher eachother as much as they want.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            Hey Trotsky,
            …or shall I call you by your real (Jewish) name? Lev Davidovich Bronshtein, …just one of many Jews involved in the Jew funded, organized and Jewish execution of the Bolshevik Revolution along with your barbaric Red Army, that murdered over 60 million Russians, and imposed the Jewish ideology of communism upon the Russians. This atrocity is why Jews dreamt up the holocaust, …to divert attention from who the true butchers of the 20th century are. Your time is up, AshkeNAZI (fake Jews). You WILL pay for ALL of your crimes against humanity, and very very soon.

          • PedoProhet

            You probably really believe that bologne you wrote.
            yet another reason why you should be be put away with your fellow ragheads and make the world a much better place.

          • http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/324/324.2/hizballah/ Sons of Ares

            Coming from a European imperialist, that really hurts. And uh, I doubt really that you’re Irish: even hear of the potato famine plot?

          • Ger

            Good for you,people that hate only Jews are bad.

          • marxistgulag

            You are hated worldwide by billions.the only support you have is from corrupt governments who do not speak for there peoples.

          • Cathy

            Well, as a decent person I hate your freaking guts, so feel the honor azzwipe, you are a traitor to all lands you live in and I can’t wait to watch the white people finally kill every last one of you forever. You are the scourge of the earth and you have always been so. Die joo, DIE!

          • Samir Halabi

            People like you should be charged with incitement to genocide. It would seem that your specific kind of jew-hatred was imbued in your Mother’s milk going back to 1290 when all Jews in England were kicked out by King Edward 1st.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            As long as people like you live to excuse the nation wrecker Jews who have destroyed entire countries at a clip, people around the world will continue to hate Jews. Stop pretending like you are all innocent angels with wings made of teddy bear tears and candy canes. You are butchers, murderers, and economy draining parasites. As an American I am so sick and tired of seeing our government hijacked by a bunch of Jew AIPAC rats who send billions of our tax dollars to your rat hole in the Middle East so you can continue to slaughter people and steal more land. Hatred is not based on history or any of your Jew tripe mind games, it’s based on what you slimy criminals do today. You piss off people cause you are criminals, thieves, and liars. Go ahead. Sugar coat everything with your ridiculous antisemitism garbage. You Jews are obviously anti-humanity, anti-truth, anti-justice, and anti-peace. All your pathetic mind games of linking this and that are so lame. Let me lay it out for you nation wrecker.

            We Americans hate Jews and Israel cause :
            1.) They steal billions from our economy during the worst recession. How do they do this? By planting over 13,000 of their AIPAC roaches throughout our government to make sure that our money goes to Israel instead of our own American people.
            2.) Israel is pushing us to go to war constantly against every Middle Eastern country.
            3.) The Jews and Israel run so many shady money schemes in our country like the fact that the 2nd in command at the Fed right now is Stanley Fischer, ex head of Israel’s bank. – Talk about conflict of interest.
            4.) We are tired of having our congress compromised by stolen American taxpayer money that Israeli Jews use to bribe our congressmen to support Israel.
            5.) We are sick and tired of having our government tell us Americans that we must defend Israel.
            6.) We are sick of Israel’s genocides all disguised as self defense when the maps clearly show it was all for land theft.
            7.) We are sick of the pro-Jew media trying to brainwash us Americans into supporting Israel.
            8.) We are sick of Jews almost always being the ones that are economically wrecking our country.
            9.) We are tired of supporting Israel to the tune of billions a year.
            10.) We know that Israel did 9-11. Israel and Mossad murdered JFK, Israel did the Lavon affair, and Israel bombed the USS liberty on purpose. We are sick and tired of calling the enemy an ally.

            These and so many valid reasons are why we hate you nation wrecking enemy parasites. Enjoy twisting reality though.

          • Abby Joseph

            blah blah blah, blah blah… blah

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            “blah blah blah, blah blah… blah”

            Pay heed my fellow Americans, this is what zionists Jews think of you. Stupid enough to send billions of your hard earned tax payer dollars and certainly stupid enough to allow your children and families to die in zionist Jew wars meant to benefit Israel, but don’t you dare point it out and want to put an end to it. If you look at this disgusting corruption of our congress that is ripping us Americans off and sending billions to Israel and say something, well, you must be a muslim or a “terrorist”. No way you could possibly be an American who is sick and tired of his/her government sending money to a bunch of filthy parasite zionist Jews in Israel. Nah, that can’t be. The stupid goy is more than happy to send money and blood to Israel as tribute.

            Yeah, Go F yourself Abby Joseph and take Israel with you.

            Sincerely,
            The American people not infected with zionism.

          • Samir Halabi

            You have been reported for slander against world Jewry.
            You are the typical Jew-hating slime that has it’s roots buried in denigrating, demonizing and incitement to violence against Jews for the past 2,000 years. You can congratulate yourself for siding with the contempories such as Adolf Hitler and his ilk, all enemies who to this day wish to see the complete annihilation of the Jewish people and Israel. It is you who are the parasites of this world, it is you and people like you who have twisted minds, imbued from your Mother’s milk.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            What a slimebag you are. What a piece of crap. What a filthy slimy smelly crapstain on humanity.

            So let’s get this straight.

            I am an American TAXPAYER who doesn’t like that these scummy Jews butcher people in the Middle East with MY TAXPAYER MONEY and suddenly I am Adolf Hitler. WELL F(CK YOU AND YOUR MOTHER you shylock.

            It’s not against the law to hate the butchers of the Middle East. It’s against humanity however to align with them.

            If anyone is going to rot in hell its you and your Jews who thrive on bloodshed.

            Israel is nothing but a criminal empire built on oceans of blood and mountains of innocent corpses. It is an apartheid country full of the most militaristic RACIST, war mongering Jews who make Hitler look like an amateur.

            Hitler was the most maligned man in history and the holohoax is nothing but the lies and fabrications of the most vile liars history has ever known.

            However, REALITY has shown many things about your nation wrecking parasites.

            1.) They were kicked out of Europe over 109 times throughout history.
            2.) They started communism and were behind the deaths of over 180 million Europeans, not some make believe paltry 6 million holohoax LIE.
            3.) They run the banks in a manner that ruined the entire world and created global misery.
            4.) Israel is a parasite nation sucking the economic lifeblood out of the United States.
            5.) Bernie Madoff, Micheal Milken, Ivan Boesky, just a few slimy Jews who did MASSIVE ECONOMIC FRAUD.
            6.) Netanyahu – Deranged psychopathic Jew who wants to start WW3 by nuking Iran SINCE 1992 NO LESS.
            7.) It is the ACTIONS of the Jews that make them hated not that they are Jews so stop your garbage.
            8.) The Jew like you is a coward, a scum, a lair, and tries to lie his way out of anything. Never takes responsibility or admits any wrongs.
            9. Israel is an illegal nuclear armed rogue state. It fears not one and has threatened the world with the Samson option of global nuclear winter if it is attacked.
            10.) Israel is the capital of European women and children kidnapping sex slavery ring. A SH*THOLE if there ever was one.
            11.) Israel has a thriving market of ILLEGAL ORGAN HARVESTING. Some civilized nation, right?

            This and so many things have shown that world that Jews that migrated there from Europe and slaughtered the Palestinians WERE THE CRIMINALS and should NEVER HAVE BEEN SAVED.

            Antisemitism is a crock of sh*t used to defend these international global banksters and criminals.

            And your mother’s milk was full of feces and you are full of it too.

          • disqus_TbIHwS5b9A

            I love Israel and the Jews and pray for them everyday of my life. Your really a jerk for your stupid post! Israel could care less about what the European Nations or anyone for that matter. No one has ever been there to help Israel fight any of the wars she has had to fight for survival. I fought in Vietnam, was wounded twice, spent 2 yrs in a military hospital. Israel did in 6 days what America couldn’t do in 15 years. God Bless Israel!
            Benjamin Calderon

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Israel slaughtered over 1.1 million innocent people since 1948.
            Israel has expelled over 4 million people to their deaths since 1948.

            If you think they or you are going to heaven, boy are you gonna be in for a rude awakening.

            One can clearly see that agent orange exposure has the effect of turning men into irrational zionist creeps who know nothing of history and defend theft, genocide, apartheid, and war mongering.

            No one helps Israel because no one in their right mind wants to expel defenseless people from their homes to hand them over to a bunch of criminal Jews.

            Benjamin Calderon, can you hear it? That’s the voice of Satan calling you home. He wants his child who loves genocide to come into the eternal pits of fire where he will roast with all his other children like Marx, Mao, Lenin, and Pol Pot.

          • Forrest Carlton Lackey

            No one has ever been there? No one has ever been there? Billions of American tax dollars have been there, you better show some respect to the people paying your bills.

          • Prophetic

            Your people represent an outdated colonial attitude of oppression, which has been strategically planned throughout the 20th century. Your people are economists responsible for the continuation of many wars for profit. The problem is you have not evolved past the concept of capital over human life. the death and genocidal attempts over the Palestinians will be a stain on your culture that I will continue to preach. Here in Ireland we know what oppression and racism is. The British were not nearly as cruel and malicious as the cancerous state of Israel, and that was nearly a century ago. You are modern day Nazis, just a a lot sneakier with your fingers in a lot more money pies. Many Empires were nice to live, but its hard to hide the soil stained red the blood of its inhabitants.

          • disqus_TbIHwS5b9A

            Your such an Arab idiot! I love Israel and pray for her each day of my life.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Hello there zionist retard. Can you read? Do you understand English? Then you can stop pretending like the real reasons us Americans hate Israel is because we don’t like Jews. How laughable. We don’t like Jews alright, we don’t like Jews that steal billions from us American taxpayers, Jews that plunge us Americans into wars that the Jews start, and Jews that have destroyed our American reputation in the world. We Americans are known as Israel’s warmongering weapons suppliers. So please stop the lies you vile vermin.

            Fought for survival? Don’t make me laugh you Israeli Jewish criminals. All you cowards did was over run Palestine in 1948 and slaughtered mostly unarmed villagers, farmers, and bedouins then took their homes, land, and farms. You vile serpents wholesale slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people who never did a thing to any holohoax Jew. What a joke. You Israeli Jews are nothing more than criminals who are brave when it comes to rock throwing women and children but then cry like babies when the Lebanese armed with only old AKs get you pansies to run back with your tail between your legs. If the defenseless Arabs that you slimy Jews butchered actually had any weapons to defend themselves they would have killed all of you slimy Jews and the world would not be in turmoil today and we Americans wouldn’t have AIPAC cockroaches robbing us of our tax dollars. The world would be a way better place for everyone around.

            Your fraudulent Israeli history is nothing but lies on top of lies because that’s all you Jews are good at besides financial crimes, usury, and theft. That’s why you make such good story tellers in hollywood. Lying is not just second nature, it’s first nature.

            The land wasn’t barren and the zionist Jews of Europe who invaded the place didn’t buy it or try to live in peace either so spare the world your revisionist history. The zionist Jews slaughtered and genocided an innocent people who were guilty of nothing and did absolutely nothing to anyone. Invaders, occupiers, apartheid criminals, warmongers, and genocidal maniacs led by a lunatic named Netanyahu who certainly does the Devil’s work. There is nothing remotely holy or good about a country armed with 300+ illegal undeclared nuclear weapons that steals land, butchers people, and robs the American people of their tax dollars by infesting their government with enemy spies and thieves.

            History of Israel is nothing but a sham of Jews warmongering, corrupting governments, and butchering people for land. That’s it and nothing more.

            In a few years, every American will be a muslim, “terrorist”, or antisemite obviously because the Jews have a hard time doing the right thing or even apologizing for the crime they commit. Everyone around them is wrong and the world obviously hates them because they are always the “victim”. They are the eternal victims even when they systematically destroy the stability of the entire world and plunge it into chaos and turmoil.

            What a pathetic way to live. What a sorry and sad people the Israelis must be. To know they are the lowest of the low committing the worst crimes imaginable then sitting there and pretending that they are the victims knowing full well their hands are drenched in blood and their lies are as vile as they are.

          • Abby Joseph

            Jews throwing rocks??? Man are you uneducated… LMAO

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            That’s all you understood? I thought Jews were supposed to be smart? Guess they aren’t as smart as they are made out to be. Oh, I get it, pretending not to see that stealing and murder are wrong. ooooh, it’s the old “If a zionist doesn’t see what they did wrong, then it really isn’t wrong.”

            The title of this article is “Israelis don’t care that we hate them but they’d like to know why.”

            How about you stinkies stop stealing our American tax dollars, corrupting our congress to financially support you parasites, and destabilizing the Middle East?

            That’s it right there but obviously you stinkies will ignore it. Boy do you stink too.

            This is what General Patton, the greatest American general ever had to say about you stinkies :

            “where, although room existed, the Jews were crowded together to an appalling extent, and in practically every room there was a pile of garbage in one corner which was also used as a latrine. The Jews were only forced to desist from their nastiness and clean up the mess by the threat of the butt ends of rifles. Of course, I know the expression ‘lost tribes of Israel’ applied to the tribes which disappeared — not to the tribe of Judah from which the current sons of bitches are descended. However, it is my personal opinion that this too is a lost tribe — lost to all decency.”

            PATTON FURTHER TOLD OF THE STINKIES : Patton’s initial impressions of the Jews were not improved when he attended a Jewish religious service at Eisenhower’s insistence. His diary entry for September 17, 1945, reads in part:

            “This happened to be the feast of Yom Kippur, so they were all collected in a large, wooden building, which they called a synagogue. It behooved General Eisenhower to make a speech to them. We entered the synagogue, which was packed with the greatest stinking bunch of humanity I have ever seen. When we got about halfway up, the head rabbi, who was dressed in a fur hat similar to that worn by Henry VIII of England and in a surplice heavily embroidered and very filthy, came down and met the General . . . The smell was so terrible that I almost fainted and actually about three hours later lost my lunch as the result of remembering it.”

            If real history was told about you parasites, every American would know how dirty not only in body, but in mind and spirit you stinkies are. That is why you are a bunch of parasites and steal from us Americans to support your lazy welfare ghetto style state. Lazy American blacks on welfare have nothing on you bunch of parasite stinkies, you go all the way by bribing our politicians to give you that welfare money.

          • Forrest Carlton Lackey

            I am a military veteran and an intel analyst of the US Army…and although I would lower the hatefulness, I do agree on some of the stuff he’s said.
            There’s a reason why people in the military don’t trust Israel (the ones who are in intel, at least). Just look up Attack on USS Liberty, The Lavon Affair, Dancing Israelis on 9/11, and the proposed Samson option.
            Yeah, I’m sure the GOOD part of town is a nice place to live in Israel. But I’ve seen documentaries from Israeli soldiers who came forward to tell you about the the bad parts you didn’t see. The marxist racist police state.
            Rome was a nice place to live, too. But it was built on the backs of slaves. Rome’s capital was nice, but at the expense of everywhere else. So it is with Israel. The only reason why their cities for their Ashkenazic Jew golden children is so nice is because we give them so much damn money. It’s not nice for all the human trafficked sex slaves from europe or the black african Jews being sterilized or sent into camps, being called “Kooshim” (hebrew for the ‘n’ word), or the Christians getting spit on.
            They show you their nice side, probably get you laid, and use it to misdirect you from the bad side. Come on, now. Israel was founded by a bunch of communist athiest european converts to Judaism. Rothschild was a big player of Zionism, and he gave money to Hitler. A lot of founding rabbis of Israel actually thought the Jews who died in the holocaust were expendible, so they could pretend a prophecy took place and get a bunch of rattled people fanatically loyal to Israel. It worked.
            Israel is like Rome and Sparta, if it’s not like apartheid. It cares more for it’s soldier than for it’s civilians. And it also have basically the Jewish version of Hitler Youth-which they justify because of Palestinian rockets, but they had that plan from the get go. It’s fascist. I’m sure it was nice living in Nazi germany if you’re one of their “golden children” “the chosen” or master race. So it is in Israel. You hung out with the golden children, and they elected a black Ms. Israel to distract you from the other blacks getting threatened in the street, denied jobs, and put in camps. It’s been documented, dude. Look it up. Want me to post it?
            Some of you people are so fanatically loyal to Israel that you would even screw over the Jewish people just to have this dream of some perfect religious democracy in the middle east. I’ve read the bible. I was raised Religious and lean conservative. But this fanatical Talmudic Zio Nazism has got to stop. It’s gonna drag the west into a nuclear apocalypse. Some of you conservatives don’t realize the same people you defend in the middle east, are the ones pushing for the gay agenda, and for the ACLU ADL and others to make it illegal to be Christian.
            As a veteran who knows that his fellow soldiers in the past were slaughtered by narcissistic Jewish terrorists in USS Liberty, and the false flag op in Lavon Affair, it is because I lean right that I hate us being a bitch to a country who not only has attacked us but wants us to “shrivel up and blow away.” (that’s your sainted Bibi Netanyahoo, by the way.)

          • Forrest Carlton Lackey

            That, and I know they’ve had a hand in training our unconstitutionally brutal police force, that likes to target veterans. And I know they’ve had a hand in the government putting Muslims, evangelical christians, VETERANS, and Homeschooled kids on the terror watch list. Why? Cuz a lot of American soldiers might be pro Israel going in, but not necessarily coming out.

            That’s who our president’s FEMA camps are for, after homeless people, other dissidents, and gun owners.

            Ya know why they target soldiers? Ya know why we keep getting pulled into one mid east brawl after another, with an enemy we can’t always identify?
            It’s because while US soldiers are in the mideast, the UN or SOMEBODY has probably sent soldiers into our country disguised as police officers, hence the police getting bigger and nastier with armored vehicles, body armor, automatic weapons, aided by drones, and a lot of Zionists will blame any of those people (not all liberals) of being anti semite. Why Homeschooled kids? Because they aren’t brainwashed by the media and school system. Also, harder to find.
            You’re being invaded, America. And Israel is trying to make Jerusalem/Tel Aviv the capital of America. The Zionist lobby is too powerful, and I will not remain silent while a bunch of my “fellow” “conservatives” try to kill me with silence when they’re a part of sending America to slavery, the same people who bitch about the media promoting perversity, well who runs the media conservatives? WHO RUNS THE FREAKIN’ MEDIA? Is it the arabs? And you’re gonna send money to the same people you bitch about making the media anti christian and anti american?
            Wake up, people. You too, conservatives! It was a conservative republican who showed me this. Wake up. You’re being stabbed in the back by somebody who sees us all as “goyim.” They hate you more than the Koran ever would. Pick up the Talmud, and put Zionism’s feet on the fire.

          • Donna Ross

            Forrest Carlton Lackey, I honor your service to your country, sir. I agree with much of what you say but not all. I am glad that at least ONE conservative understands how terrible our BLIND support for the treacherous Israel has been and continues to be. I call my senators ALL THE TIME and tell them we need to DIVORCE Israel ASAP! I never even hear back from them! I also write to the media. Again, I never even hear back from them. Sir, you are INDEED correct. AIPAC OWNS our country. Period! I call my senators and I tell them, “Look, I know you are all SCARED of AIPAC. I sympathize. BUT, you need to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!” I am proudly Liberal. In fact, I am a Liberal Democrat but, as I am sure you are aware, ALL of our politicians are in thrall to Israel! Soros is a Zionist. Adelson is a Zionist. The Kochs are Zionists. I could go on and on! I doubt, frankly, that even Warren or Sanders can take on AIPAC! Are you aware that an Israeli SPY, who stole NUCLEAR secrets, is a HUGELY successful Hollywood producer? His name is Arnon Milchan and he won an Academy Award and has produced major films such as “Pretty Woman” and “The Fight Club”. The USA is now a Zionist occupied country and most of my fellow Texans are TOO F***ING STUPID TO UNDERSTAND!!!! I am ready to STORM THE BASTILLE TO TAKE BACK MY COUNTRY FROM ITS ZIONIST OCCUPIERS! Also, are you aware of Oded Yinon’s plan for “Greater Israel”?

          • ido

            its funny coming from someone who lives in a country that was founded on the destruction of ancient cultures, by people who literally stole an entire continent, committed genocide on its natives and took the land for themselves.. You’re country was founded on the most vial of standards… And then you say that you stand for freedom and think that you have any right to give judgement..america supports israel for its own personal reasons dipshit, not because its being take advantouge by israel.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Nah, the American people just give away a big chunk of their economy every year, about 12-30 billion a year for a bunch of war mongering Israelis. Yeah, that’s the ticket, the American people would rather just give away their entire economy and send their children to die for Israel’s war because it’s their idea. You have no idea what you are talking about. The American people are beginning to realize that Israel is a parasite nation that has been sucking the lifeblood out of them and getting their children murdered in wars they don’t belong in. That’s the state of the American people. Now the politicians are a different case, they get kickbacks and get payed like to spew the Israel is America’s #1 ally garbage. Go crawl under a rock where you belong. You aren’t an American and no, we American don’t support Israel. You have no idea how much we hate Israel for destroying our lives, but also that of people around the world. Israel is a cancer and is 100% responsible for the destabilization of the Middle East. It’s a country with 300-400 illegal nuclear warheads that shouts for the death of Iran since 1992. It’s bombed every country around it and has stolen land time after time including this last “operation” aka mini-genocide. Not only do we Americans hate Israel, but so does the world. Sure, our politicians love Israel cause those corrupt prostitutes get payed by the AIPAC Israeli zionist lobby, but rest assured those politicians will end up destroying this country and will find themselves hanging, being injected, or shot to death by the American people for what they are doing. It’s just a matter of time.

          • Donna Ross

            WeNeedPeaceNow, I would take out the hate and acknowledge that Israel HAS produced 13 Nobel Prize winners, cell phone technology, advances in medicine including a vaccine against cancer, but, otherwise, I do agree with most of what you have to say. Google BSF and WEDO. Also, Seeds of Peace. Good luck!

          • Prowler Prowler

            another brainwashed hate filled zombie.
            do muslims/islamonazis realize most of zombie films is about them & their fanatical hate ?….

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Hey moron, you are a walking contradiction :

            First you start your sentence with this :

            “another brainwashed hate filled zombie.”

            Then you call muslims, which amount to 1.5 billion people in the world this :

            “do muslims/islamonazis realize most of zombie films is about them & their fanatical hate ?….”

            So let’s get this straight, if someone hates zionist Jews (which are 100% responsible by the way) for destroying nations with usury, debt, financial fraud, war mongering, and false flag attacks like the Lavon Affair, the USS Liberty, and 9-11(Definitely a Jewish Zionist false flag attack) then they are a “muslim/islamonazi” even if they aren’t even an Arab. If that someone hates the Israeli Jews for butchering innocent people and then stealing their land since 1948 then that is also “fanatical hate”.

            Better still, if an American hates the Israeli Jews for poisoning their government with AIPAC criminals who funnel the American economy into Israel, then obviously they are also “antisemitic” and “Islamonazis” because there’s always money for Jews even when the American economy is in despair. Got it SMEAGOL. Jews – always right even when they commit genocide, steal land, and plant spies in the American government in order to illegally funnel stolen American taxpayer dollars into Israel. All Arabs – Bad. 1.5 billion people of which many just mind their own business and do nothing to anyone, but yet are still “Islamonazis”.

            Muslims didn’t bankrupt America, Jews like Bernie Madoff, Michael Milken, Ivan Boesky, and a list that goes on for miles with nothing but names of Jewish bankers, financiers, and other assorted criminals.

            Muslims don’t steal billions of American taxpayer dollars and funnel it into Israel. Jews did and continue to do it against the will of the American people.

            Muslims don’t have 300-400 nuclear weapons and threaten the world with the “samson” option of global apocalypse if they get attacked, Jews do.

            Muslims didn’t murder John F. Kennedy in order to sneak out weapons grade nuclear material from America(an act that deserves to get Israel wiped off the map) , Jews from Israel did and pinned it on patsy Oswald. Jewish sock puppet LBJ was caught laughing about the death of JFK to a Jewish handler a few weeks afterwards.

            Muslims didn’t nullify executive order 11110 that gave congress the right to print money, thereby taking that power away from the Jewish Federal Reserve, JEWISH owned LBJ did that on the orders of JEW bankers.

            Muslims don’t run the IRS, a nefarious and illegal money scam enslaving the American people, Jews do that and they do it well because they are parasites.

            Muslims don’t run the Federal Reserve, another Jewish money making scam imposed upon the American people, JEWS DO THAT YET AGAIN.

            Muslims don’t run Hollywood and make everyone but Muslims a villain. Jews do that and create racial tension among whites and blacks with all these racial Jew propaganda movies.

            Muslims don’t invade a country and open their borders, it’s almost always Jews who are involved in a government that are responsible for open borders. Muslims are the ones that the Jews make sure to import into white countries in order to cause chaos and better steal under the cover of chaos. Pretty much what they have been doing in America these past decades. Almost all pro-open border politicians are Jews who don’t even belong in America due to dual citizenship status.

            Muslims don’t rig the stock markets, cheat people out of their retirement, create all kinds of large scale financial crimes, and pilfer a nation’s treasures and economy, JEWS DO THAT AND HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR CENTURIES. That’s why they got kicked out of Europe over 109 times throughout history. That’s why they got kicked out of England, That’s why they are hated. Not because they are Jews, but because they are criminals.

            Muslims didn’t invade America or infest the American government. Jews did and serve their own special interests when they occupy seats in the American government.

            Muslims didn’t start a single war with Americans on American soil. Jews started many wars by sending Americans overseas in countries they didn’t belong fighting wars that never should have been. Jews also bombed and slaughtered their way into the Middle East which resulted in the theft of land and butchery of milions of innocent people.

            Most of all Muslims simply want us Americans out of their countries and would gladly leave us alone, but unfortunately, war mongering Jews in the American government will continue to stir trouble in the world by illegally bombing

            Whichever way you look at it, the real Islamonazis are the Jews who just can’t seem to leave people and their nations alone. Always starting trouble, always starting wars, forever ripping people off financially. Jews are stereotyped for a reason and that is because they fit the stereo.

            Barbara Lerner Spectre – A walking puss filled infection of a Jew says that “Jews will be responsible for the destruction of Europe with multiculturalism.”

            Jews make it easy for the world to hate them, all they have to do is do continue doing all the nefarious things they normally do.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Then you keep praying, just keep the billions of our American taxdollars out of Israel. It’s the American people’s money, not some bunch of slimy Israeli Jews who are so disgusting that they have to infest our American government with AIPAC scum that coerces, bribes, and extorts our politicians to send that money.

            Throughout history Jews were tossed out of countries. Over 109 times they were tossed out of Europe for usury, theft, deception, economic, and nation wrecking.

            It looks like it’s the same thing all over again in America. Getting American politicians to swear their allegiance and our tax money to Israel while totally neglecting us Americans and the entire American infrastructure. Some ally. No wonder Europe tossed you parasites out.

            Go pray for Israel, moon rocks, or dancing with the starts, no one cares. What we Americans do care about is that you Israelis are a bunch of blood sucking vermin who can’t keep your tentacles off our tax money.

            If America was robbing Israel the was Israel was robbing America you would be pissed off too. You bunch of stinkies.

          • Forrest Carlton Lackey

            Although I might leave out a few words, good points. They wouldn’t like it if we did this to them. Naturally they will pull the Jew card, but if you left our that top part it would be purely political and they couldn’t pull it…they would anyway…

          • Prowler Prowler

            yeah your not an antisemite one bit…..

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Really??? That’s the best you got? That “antisemite” garbage doesn’t work anymore there buddy. Anyone with half a brain doesn’t give one sh*T about being called an anti-semite anymore. As if that’s some great travesty. What a joke. A bunch of Jewish BS. Imagine, a people that are such scum that when they get caught doing crimes their only defense is calling people “antisemites”. Go crawl under the slimy rock you came from. Call out the Israeli Jews on their crimes and of course, it’s “antisemitic”.

            The only anti-semites are the Jews in Israel who are wholesale slaughtering the Palestinians (REAL SEMITES) and stealing their land.

            Well then, YOU ARE ANTI-HUMANITY. You are anti-truth. Anti-honesty.

            And try not to wander off topic, it’s called “The Israelis don’t care that we hate them but they’d like to know why.”

            Well, how does pilfering the American economy for Israel by planting their degenerate spies in our government sound? How about the murder of John F. Kennedy so that they can steal nuclear material from our country and manufacture their own weapons which they now threaten the world with? Samson option anyone?

            These are but a few reasons we American hate the Israelis and of course that makes us “antisemites”.

            I swear, it should be made a law in America that if any stinky slimy Jew calls someone an “antisemite” then that Jew should have his jaw broken and all his teeth knocked out.

            Take your pathetic diversionary word and shove it deep up your colon.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            …the difference is, when a Jew is caught with his hands in the till, it has a grip on trillions, and in the end, everybody but the Jew pays for it. See; Goldman Sachs in 2008 global financial collapse. Not one single Goldman Sachs financial criminal up on charges to date. or is that antiemetic to take note of that?

          • Cathy

            It just seems to have so much bad among joos, why is that?

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Let’s not forget the IRAQ WAR, the proposed IRAN WAR, the SYRIAN WAR, the wars against LEBANON, and so many wars after wars after wars all because innocent little jews of Israel don’t feel safe with trillions in weaponry, 300+ nuclear weapons and the samson option to destroy the entire world, and a parasitic grip on the United States to steal trillions in tax money from the American people to fund years and years of weapons shipments and a $30,000 per Israeli per year support system. All of this is done by destroying the American economy and leeching taxpayer money by using AIPAC to bribe traitor politicians. Want to know what the American economy is 17 trillion in debt? ISRAEL and their wars along with rampant jewish Israeli politicians sending tens of billions to Israel instead of putting it into the American economy. Jews are thieves, parasites, and a curse upon any nation stupid enough to take these bloodsuckers in. Just google jewish bankers and criminals and you will get an endless list along with politicians with ties to Israel. America is infested all right, with the jewish cockroach that has no end in sight to its apatite for American taxpayer money.

          • arturo

            Moslems aren’t killing each other across the Middle East. They’re killing each other, because there aren’t any jews left to kill. Syria has nothing to do with Israel. Lebanon is a mess because of Hezbollah.
            The majority of Israel’s aid, is required to be spent with US companies. That means jobs and increased tax base.

            Never fear “peace” you will not be immune when the moslems are done with the jews.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Save your garbage about how the Jews defend peace and are an ally to us Americans. Sure, they had to force their way into our government and have 13,000 AIPAC cockroaches infest the halls of Washington D.C. to keep the money flowing from our taxpayer pockets into theirs. All these slimy khazars do is butcher a bunch of rock throwin ak-47 wielding primitive missile launching people who got their land stolen simply for existing. Ironically, those same Palestinians now live in fenced in ghettos where they have to show their “papers” to Israeli Jews in order to travel down roads they once traveled freely with their grandfathers. Today, the students (Israeli Jews) really outshine the teacher (Hitler).

          • arturo

            Khazars, AIPAC…LOL!! You left out “blood to make matzoh” and “world domination”.

            Loan guarantees to Israel from the US, requires that Israel spend the majority of their money with companies in the USA. This translates as much needed jobs and increased tax base.

            That said, please http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com

          • arturo

            LOL!!! The Arab peace activists had their land stolen by Arabs. Syria stole the Golan, Egypt stole the Gaza, and Trans Jordan stole Judea and Samaria.

            How is it possible, for an arab, living in an arab country, to be living in a “refugee” camp? “Liberals like to call them concentration camps and ghettos, but the guards this time around are all arab moslems.

            tellthechildrenthetruth dot com

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            2,300 dead civilans, mostly children, 400 hectares of stolen land. Slice it any way you want zionist freakaziod. You and your zionist Jew buddies are going to h#ll for supporting or condoning that.

            As an American, I don’t want my taxpayer money funding your psycho-genocidal rampages. I don’t want my congress bribed to give you parasites billions. I don’t want my government supporting your weapons meat grinder factory that produces oceans of blood from mountain piles of fresh corpses.

            Grow some stones you bunch of chicken s*** zionist Jews, admit you are nothing but a bunch of homicidal maniacs who butcher people for land. Stop pretending that it’s self defense. Have the decency to stop lying. No body believes your new shoah just like your last shoah was just as fake.

            We Americans work hard and our tax dollars go to pay for your weapons because our politicians are a bunch of rat b@stards owned by AIPAC. They would rather send billions of our dollars to your rat hole country of parasites than keep our money home to improve our economy. One day very soon, your parasite country will collapse our economy and your rat AIPAC slime will be returning to Israel in body bags along with these vermin your AIPAC slime has purchased.

            We Americans have enough welfare trash here, we don’t need to support more welfare trash in Israel. Get your AIPAC scum out of our government while you still have time and the entire American population hasn’t entirely woken up yet because when they do, you freaks in Israel will have to deal with a hatred you have never experienced before, one that will make the worst Muslim terrorist seem tame by comparison.

            Antisemitism – A term that won’t save the zionist Jews and Israel once they collapse the American economy from their parasitic behavior.

            The REAL holocaust – What will happen to the zionist Jews and Israel once they suck the last drop of blood and money from the already pissed off American public.

            Body bags – Welcome to the new way to ship AIPAC members and congress loyal to Israel back to their homeland.

          • arturo

            200 thousand dead and counting in Syria. Various bands of roving jihadis slaughtering en masse all those whom they deem “unislamic”. Beheadings, live burials, crucifixion and every other demonic atrocity one could imagine. Islam today, is like an Hieronymous Bosch painting….in “living” color.

            War is heck. People die, Hamas loves death, and apparently you seem to enjoy it too. Porno for Palis!

          • Prowler Prowler

            Arabs likes killing & slaughter, family honor killing is common.

          • Guest

            gtubby??? You need some serious help Bob.

          • Eli Huerta

            Yes the Hebrews are not semitic! That was never they’re land and they’re not human being fuck retarded everyone knows that they’re dumbed then a dog!

          • Bob339

            So could we use the same excuse? I think not. Try to be more informed please.

          • gerontius

            Bob
            Do all the civilised people on this site a favour and crawl back under your stone and sniff your jackboots quietly, in private.
            Thanks.

          • Bob339

            You mean all the jews? They are not civilized people.

            Dream on gerontius.

          • La Fold

            It’ll be shape shifting lizards next, ye zoomer!

          • gerontius

            “They are not civilized people”

            But Bob, they quite demonstrably are.
            You, on the other hand…….

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Yet these same zionists send their scum into other government to “multi-culturalize” the rest of the world. Notice that every government that has problems with immigration including America has jew at the helm leading the open border initiatives? Yet Israel currently runs the American government and is actively trying to butcher our families by sending them to war against Iran when we Americans clearly do not want war. The same way Israelis don’t see why they should take care of anyone is the same reason why we Americans don’t see why our politicians are taking care of Israel over the needs of us Americans. Israel is a cancer and a poison to America. The sooner we Americans get rid of you parasites, the better.

          • Alexbensky

            Just in case anyone else gives the slightest credence to your rantings, Jews are not leading the open border initiatives in the US, although undoubtedly some are active in it. We have a polity characterized by our constitution’s firm insistence that no religious test be required for participation in governnment or politics. The leaders tend to be Latinos and people seeking Latino votes.

            Anyone who looks at the Obama administration’s Middle East policy and thinks it’s being run by Zionists needs to read up a little bit.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            B’nai Brith organization was a classic example of the corrosive and toxic force of jews – First thing the jews did immediately after being allowed to infest America was to infiltrate American government and start their programs to import as many immigrants as possible. JEWS ARE LIARS. You are a liar.
            JEWS CAUSE WARS FOR PROFIT. JEWS DESTROYED GERMAN ECONOMY AND WONDER WHY DO THEY HATE US?? KICKED OUT OF OVER 109 EUROPEAN COUNTRIES THROUGHOUT HISTORY.
            All one has to do is look up history to see the truth, not the jewish fabrications and holohoax lies.
            ISRAEL is a nation of lying thieving warmongering cockroaches.
            Real history reflects the truth, not the jewish censored variety that hides the REAL REASONS the German people hate you hooked nosed lying filth. What???!!! You think the Germans put you thieves in work camps for nothing? You think crashing their economy, manipulating their media, destroying their currency, and scamming the German people WASN’T THE REAL REASON? pfffftt!!! lying sack of jew garbage.
            Look at Israel today, see who the real Nazis are. The way you slimy buggers treat the Palestinians is the way you treated the German people except the Germans were smart enough to deport you scum ASAP.
            HERE IS THE BEST ONE : Americans died to save your filthy jew ancestors and the way you thank them is by destroying the American economy, flooding the country with jewish open border policies, dragging their children into Israel’s wars for profit, and sucking the lifeblood out of American people by stealing their taxpayer money by the trillions. Scum sucking soulless cockroaches.

          • arturo

            To quote Indiana Jones: “Nazis. I hate these guys.”

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            So that’s it? Quoting a make believe pathetic hollywood crap movie promoting the same old zionist narrative that the German people were all evil Nazis?? That’s all you zionist pricks have left, fantasy land quotes, insults, and diversion to hide and distort the truth. First off moron, I don’t care about your silly Nazi reference cause if anyone is a Nazi nowadays it’s the Israelis and they are in fact WORSE than the Nazis or Hitler.

            Here’s the latest news of those lovely Israelis beating a child almost to death simply for being Arab. He was just visiting his family and has no involvement in any conflict. It was proven that he was just a kid minding his own business and was brutally attacked by psychopathic genocidal Jews. It also proven that he wasn’t a “terrorist” or causing any trouble. The Israelis insist that the Jews that almost beat him to death were not regular Israeli police officers. Yeah, sure. Sicko Jew society. Oh, did I forget to mention that the boy’s cousin was kidnapped by Israelis and burned to death? That sparked a violent protest by the Palestinians. Gee, guess when Jews burn other people’s children they are obviously doing God’s work, right?

            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/07/beaten-palestinian-teen-family-speaks/12281665/

            Spare us the stupid Nazi slogans and anti-semite garbage, nobody cares anymore. Israelis aren’t special, aren’t chosen by God, and certainly don’t deserve any special treatment considering they commit the most vile acts of war and genocide against unarmed civilians just about every day while hiding under the cover of the “everybody hates me” BS holohoax propaganda.

            Take your Indiana Jones quotes and shove them up your Israeli hole.

            Here’s some real quotes :

            MARIA THERESA, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (1771 – 1789) “Henceforth no Jew, no matter under what name, will be allowed to remain here without my written permission. I know of no other troublesome pest within the state than this race, which impoverished the people by their fraud, usury and money-lending and commits all deeds which an honorable man despises. Subsequently they have to be removed and excluded from here as much as possible.”

            A REAL Queen who ruled her people and saw first hand what the nation wrecker Jews do for real far outweighs the stupid quote of a dumb make believe Jew invented movie character.

            In fact, take a look at the American economy and you can see the same thing happening. The Jews are simply tearing it apart with usury, bank fraud, theft, and all manners of crimes. They infest the American government and create laws to protect themselves while punishing anyone that tries to expose them. They tried and failed to get Americans to die in a war against Syria/Iran and their AIPAC group was exposed as the only one pushing real hard for Americans to die. They took over Hollywood and use it to create propaganda that shows only the Jewish “suffering” but yet never explains why so many people throughout history hated the Jews so much. It’s always the same old canard of Nazi/anti-semite. They infiltrate every part of that society to pervert it, destroy it, rob it, and siphon that economy into their Jewish homeland and tribes. America is the perfect example of the deadly toxic effects that Israeli infestations have caused. The American people’s economy is in shambles yet the Jew zionist “American” politicians still send billions upon billions of American taxpayer dollars to Israel. Their Fed Reserve is run by a Jew and the the ex-head of the bank of Israel. Their banks are almost all zionist Jew run. Their economy is subverted to serve Israel and their American children are treated as cannon fodder for zionist Jew rats infesting and poisoning the American Government. Every country that has allowed them into their borders has suffered and that is why they were kicked out of European countries over 109 times. People hated these Jews because they are rat f*ck b*stards who lie, cheat, steal, and murder. Germany went through the same thing with the Jews and they simply got sick and tired of it and weren’t going to let the Jews set them up like they did to Russia. The Jews claim that they “suffered” so much with the loss of their bullsh*t 6 million while the communist Jews are proven to be directly responsible for the genocide of 10 million Ukrainians and over 130 million Europeans. Pardon me while I shed a fart for those poor Jews who suffered so much. The reason people hate Jews so much is because too many are parasites who only look to take advantage from of others and live by sucking the blood out of everyone around them. Pointing out the truth doesn’t make one Hitler or an anti-semite, it simply makes them aware of the truth. This is exactly why Jews in America need Hollywood so desperately and rule it with an iron fist. Every popular movie always portrays the Jew as an innocent victim when in fact they are the real villains who have ruined nations throughout history. They have destroyed everything and everyone around them for greed, power, and resources. Israel is hated for their constant barbarism, war mongering, land theft, genocide, and financial fraud, not because those who hate them are “nazis” or “anti-semites”. Even Americans are waking up as to who is swindling their economy and no amount of hollywood Jew shaming tactics will work anymore.

            Here is another American who understood the problem :

            HENRY FORD in (The Dearborn Independent, 12-19 February 1921 “Jews have always controlled the business . . . The motion picture influence of the United States and Canada . . . is exclusively under the control, moral and financial, of the Jewish manipulators of the public mind.”

            VOLTAIRE (Francois Marie Arouet) 18th century French philosopher, writer. “Why are the Jews hated? It is the inevitable result of their laws; they either have to conquer everybody or be hated by the whole human race . . .” “The Jewish nation dares to display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations, and revolts against all masters; always superstitious, always greedy for the well-being enjoyed by others, always barbarous — cringing in misfortune and insolent in prosperity.” (Essai sur le Moeurs)

          • Arnon

            People like you are the reason why Israel exists.

          • Abby Joseph

            Alex, such ignorance does not deserve your knowledge.

          • Forrest Carlton Lackey

            Actually, the only way I came to that conclusion WAS reading and watching up a little bit. People’s names are listed. They often change their last names, but they will be Talmudic Zionist.
            You don’t have to believe me. But I was army intel. I don’t know about you. And I put my skills to work, mainly in stuff already said by others but often overlooked. Don’t be in denial.
            Love, a veteran.

          • Forrest Carlton Lackey

            When you go over the top it doesn’t help our cause. I am a veteran, I lean conservative and was raised religious. But I hate Zionism and it’s fascist government in Israel, too.
            Don’t be hateful to all Jews. Actually, half of my dirt on Zionism’s crimes, including terrorist attacks against Americans, comes from Jews. And I respect them for it. So don’t be truly hateful or truly anti semitic. Then it’s just too easy for them to dismiss you.l
            Calm down and think. A lot of Jews speak out against this globalism, you just have to know where to look. If it weren’t for them, I wouldn’t have found out why I hate Zionism and the government of Israel.
            Love, a veteran.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            You are right but it is very hard not to. I try not to judge or brush stroke an entire people but far too many of them are so messed up. They have this paranoia that every muslim must die and murdering everyone that they fear in the Middle East is the “solution”. Funny, isn’t it? I can’t even take listening to the radio or watching the TV anymore when that crap comes on. It’s always war war bomb bomb kill kill, but who is supposed to do it? Why the American people are supposed to be the ones to do it so the zionists can just sit back and relax on their newly stolen homes. There are some Jews out there who fight back against zionism but they are also marginalized. I respect them and wish them all the good luck in the world. The anger is righteous though, this theft of the American economy is unforgivable. One day soon we Americans will have to strike the real enemies of our country, Saudi Arabia and Israel, the two biggest supporters of terrorism and the #1 reason the Middle East is destabilized. I read what you wrote on your other post and you are 100% correct about the creation of Israel and how it is run today to benefit their military industrial complex over the welfare of their citizens. All in all, I don’t hate all Jews as that would be ridiculous and if everyone hates them all then many innocent people will suffer just like the innocent Arabs that were beaten up right after 9-11 or the innocent whites beaten up after the Rodney King police azz kickin’ video surfaced which ironically was a racially diverse group of police officers. Thank you for your kind words and I hope everyone in the Military is just as keen as to what’s going on as you are. There is hope if they are. Good luck and God bless you for your service to our nation.

            Love, a proud American

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            I do agree that one cannot hold all Jews responsible for the actions of other Jews. However, when it comes right down to the wire, they ALL, as in 100% of them will stick together, because that’s what people do.
            Just look at the outcome of the OJ Simpson trial. Even though everybody knew, without a shadow of a doubt, that OJ was guilty as sin, every single black in the USA cheered when OJ was aquitted.
            When America and the entire world wakes up, and takes action against the parasitic Jew that has destroyed every ecomnomy

          • carl ridley

            Alexbensky, in 1907 the VII Zionist congress created a department for the colonization of palestine and send there Arthur Ruppin, that, in its own words, wanted: “the creation of a Jewish milieu and of a CLOSED Jewish economy, in which producers, consumers and middlemen shall all be Jewish”.

            Not sure what Zionism was, but I can understand that the local majority (i.e. the 9/10 of the total people in 1907) was not enthusiastic about it.

          • Aaron Cooper

            Maybe the Western tax-payer should stop taking care of Israel….

          • passionflower3

            UUUUM THERE WERE 10 LOST TRIBES ,SO NOT ALL LEVIS WILL BE THERE ,WHAT A RIDICULOUS THING U CLAIM.ISRAEL WILL ALSO MOURN FOR THE MESSIAH WHEN THEY REALIZE THEY PIERCED HIM.

          • Donna Ross

            Alex Bensky, 1) A Muslim man and a formerly Jewish/Israeli woman who converted to Islam DID get married the other day in Jaffa. There were loud but non-violent demonstrations against their marriage by Jews. There were also peaceful protests by some very sweet, beautiful, young Israeli Jewish women showing solidarity with the couple. The Jewish girls brought beautiful bouquets of flowers and balloons to celebrate the marriage of the couple. A Jewish official from the Israeli government was a guest at the wedding. Among the loud protesters was a young Jewish man shouting for ALL Muslims to LEAVE Palestine. He offered to drive any Muslim who would agree to leave to any Arab country of his choosing. 2) There were VICIOUS, LOUD, RACIST demonstrations in Israel the other evening. Jews were SHOUTING “NIGGERS” in regard to African Jews! They shouted “Niggers go home!” They shouted it over and over again! 3) Israel proper is not really that much of an Apartheid state, although on the passports, if you are Jewish, it says, “Jewish” and if you are Arab it does not say “Israeli”, it says, “Arab”. So, that is not exactly democratic is it? Should not ALL passports simply say, “Israeli” the way ALL American passports say, “USA”? 4) The West Bank and Gaza are actually far WORSE than Apartheid countries. Gaza is an open air PRISON! Settlers on the WB regularly STEAL land in land grabs that BOTH the US AND the UN consider ILLEGAL! The IDF terrorizes the Palestinians who occasionally throw rocks. Can you really blame them? 5) Israel has NEVER defined its borders and continually grabs more and more and more land. 6) Israel is currently in violation of 77 UN resolutions and has already violated the terms of last summer’s cease fire agreement after the massacre of Gaza which left more than 2000 Gazans DEAD, including about 500 children, with the water and sewage systems destroyed, and in general leaving Gaza looking like Dresden after WW2. 7) Egypt destroyed the tunnels Gazans built by simply and humanely FLOODING them. Israel, instead, BOMBED them, leaving GAZA DEVASTATED! (The Jews also built tunnels in the Warsaw Ghetto, perfectly LEGAL under international law.) 8) Occupied people have a right to resist, even with violence, under international law. Herzl created, Rothschild and USA financed political Zionism is an EVIL force in the world and has been and IS behind much of the misery and mayhem in the world for over 100 years! BDS! End Apartheid Israel!

          • Ger

            But what about forced diversity on Europe,USA Canada America,does not the parasite promote this,diversity for white nations only,surley you have to practice what is forced?

          • Cathy

            Beta Israel is NOTHING except fake jew news to make whites believe they are not the true Israelis, which they are. Yes, whites are the true Israel children and fake jews are doing all they can to keep whites from knowing that, including, saying ni88gers are jews. Pathetic and sickening. God will kill you for itl

        • Samir Halabi

          You are a complete Asshole!!! There is no civil marriage in Israel, you have to go to Cyprus for mixed marriages. What about the thousands of Ethiopian Jews Israel has taken in and they are now citizens of Israel.

          • Alexbensky

            Worth mentioning that whatever problems Israeli Arabs have, and they have some, whenever there are proposals to put this Arab area or that into the possible Palestinian state, the Israeli Arabs protest vigorously.

            In Lebanon Palestinians are limited to residence in certain areas, must carry special i.d., are barred from a long list of vocations, are not allowed to apply for citizenship or buy real property. If you’re looking for apartheid, that’s it.

          • flamingjune5dwj

            @Alexbensky:disqus you cannot be serious if you point fingers at Lebanon but not at that giant wall in the West Bank! That is a galling farce!
            The divisions created between Arabs in regard to Palestinians is not unlike the divisions created between dark skinned field slaves and light skinned house slaves by William Lynch in the Southern Slave States. The Palestinians have been so degraded and treated with such distain and violence that it has caused shifts in perception among Arabs in regard to them. It is a tragic development. & The situation in Lebanon is far more complex than your trite comment implies. Its gross incompetence born of a self righteousness that Zionists such as yourself display.
            As for American support of Israel and your polls – LOL! When the Jewish controlled media report the polls it necessitates one take pause when considering the reliability of their findings. Unfortunately though, too many Americans are still brainwashed by all the Zionist propaganda, but more and more we are waking up. Just give it time – give it time.

        • WeNeedPeaceNow

          Hello Bob, the zionist media has an army of these hasbara trolls who defy logic. They state that we Americans love Israel which is pure BS. We hate Israel and we know their traitors in our government wage wars in the Middle East for Israel and vote for money for Israel over money for Americans every time. We Americans hate Israelis and hope that they all die. That is how we really feel. Make no mistake, there is 0 love for Israel from the average American once he reads about how these zionists in our government have derailed our country and stolen all our wealth and funneled it into Israel. Anyone that thinks Americans love where our country is going at the hands of Israeli stooges in the American government along with the zionist media is on drugs… or is an Israeli – Same thing – A drug addled psychopath. Israel is a cancer and Israeli jews are poisonous to us Americans and our economy and war policy run by jew criminals proves it in spades. Who are the only ones that want our American children to die in a war against Iran? AIPAC jews and their jewish criminals and few goyim slaves in our government. That is the truth right there. No Israelis, we Americans hate you and wish nothing but death, disease, and misery upon your land. You are criminals and have infested our country, government, and economy. We Americans now know that the German people were 100% correct to put you into work camps because history has repeated itself and only a blind man can not see that jews of Europe are doing to America what they did to Europe, especially to Germany. People don’t get put into work camps for nothing or just because. No one believes jews are innocent when they are being caught warmongering, destroying economies, and causing misery throughout the world. Rest assured Bob339, we Americans know the truth and it is spreading like wildfire. No amount of jewish false narratives, lies and holohoax garbage pumping out of hollywood every year will stop it now.

          • Alexbensky

            Public opinion polls consistently show that Americans favor Israel by substantial overall majorities, and four or five times as many Americans favor Israel as favor the Palestinians. Americans might change their minds when they read about how all our wealth is being channeled into Israel, if it were true. Much of our aid comes right back in arms and other purchases.

            On the other hand, we give more to Egypt and it’s straight “here’s the money,” and we get nothing back for it at all. I point this out for other readers who might think this jerk has anything to what he says.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Take out the hasbara trolls and the public opinion polls will reflect a hatred against Israel that has the fury of 1 million burning suns. Get it through your thick skull hasbara rat, WE AMERICANS DO NOT LIKE BEING ROBBED BY ISRAEL AND HAVING OUR CHILDREN DIE IN YOUR WARS. Are you jews retarded besides criminals? Do you jews really thing that you can repeat this lie that your war mongering is justified? Go choke on the fake diary of Anne Frank. Written in ball point pen years before they were commercially available. Everything about the holohoax is a LIE. From the fake skin lampshades to the fake bars of soap that had no dna. LIES LIES AND MORE JEW LIES. Only 1.4 million died mainly from typhus and allied bombings. You jews are sick mo-fos and liars of unprecedented levels. That’s why jews control hollywood and pump out BS holohoax propaganda movies every year. This way you can justify your “fears” when in fact you are the criminals that crash economies and ruin countries. Throughout history you have been called exactly what you are, NATION WRECKERS. Keep your lies jew and shove it up your noses that are as crooked as your ethics and morals if you had any.

            Let me, an American who loves America first translate this in English, your SECOND LANGUAGE : STOP RIPPING OFF THE TAXPAYER YOU HOOK NOSED THIEVES. WE DON’T WANT OUR CHILDREN DYING IN YOUR JEWISH WARS AGAINST THE MIDDLE EAST.

            In January 2003, AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr stated, “quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq” was one of AIPAC’s successes over the past year.” Jeffrey Goldberg reported during a profile piece of AIPAC’s policy director Steven J. Rosen that, “AIPAC lobbied Congress in favor of the Iraq war.”

            youtube.com/watch?v=kureFeGmoDI

            Keep your wars and keep your death hasbara troll. We Americans ain’t buying it anymore.

            9-11 IS AN ISRAELI MOSSAD OPERATION.
            Iraq War – ISRAELI AIPAC OPERATION.
            War against Iran – Gee, wonder who is trying real hard to kick start that one???? hmmmm… could it be the crazy baboon faced ugly troll Netanyahu?? Could the AIPAC cockroaches be pushing for it too against the will of the American people?? Gee…. wonder why???

          • Culm30

            To WeNeedWarNow. Were you always an asshole or did you have to take a twelve step program to there? The world is full of anti-semitic assholes like yourself that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground. We certainly don’t need another one. The sad thing is, a person like yourself would be too gutless to say what you’ve said to a Jews face. But then again that’s what the ignorant hatemongers do now these days; using the internet as their public forum. A place where they can hide their identity since they don’t have the balls to do it out in public. Why don’t you get your facts straight WeNeedWarNow before you go on your little anti-semitic rants!

          • Prosperity

            Most anti-Semites you meet in America are either Muslims or German Americans. Those who aren’t are usually schizophrenic. You can tell people are schizophrenic when they start ranting and raving about parasites and they start going on and on about Jewish conspiracy theories.

          • Baral Pradeep

            After reading all your comments, I come to conclusion that you are one pathetic mindless prick. Go forward and spread even more hate towards Israel you hopeless loser but that won’t change anything. You totally SUCK! (btw I’m not Jew or Muslim or Christian)

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Is that so hasbara? lol

            After comprehending that Israel is poison to us Americans cause :

            1.) They steal billions of our tax dollars while our country crumbles economically.
            2.) They are trying to get us to commit suicide by entering an illegal war with Iran.
            3.) They steal our technology and spy on us.
            4.) They did the Lavon affair where their Israeli cockroaches were caught planting bombs in Egyptian movie theaters as well as the American embassy to get us into a war with Egypt. This is why they beg us to still pay Egypt with our tax money.
            5.) They murdered our American sailors aboard the USS Liberty.

            These are only a few crimes they have committed against the United States, but hey, can’t hate these murdering lying Jew criminals cause they are our “allies” lol.

            Israel is an enemy of America. The #1 enemy.

            No, we won’t bomb Iran for you and send our children to die for you zionist criminal. Fight your own wars against Iran if you hate them that bad. Hopefully you snd Isral end up being a crater in the ground.

            Sincerely,

            Every tax paying American. The “losers” who are losing their economy and country to COCKROACH ISRAELIS.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            According to who’s polls? AIPAC members polling other AIPAC members would be the only group predominantly favoring Jews perhaps, but absolutely nowhere/no-one else.
            The money sent to Egypt from Israel, is American tax payer money, to buy the corrupt government there, period. The Egyptian government are bought and paid for Zionist shills, selling out their own people for personal gain and incredible personal wealth. They in turn allow Israel to continue to rob, oppress and murder Arab Muslims in that region.
            This is exactly why piece of shit Mubarak was ousted by pissed off Egyptians, only to be replaced by another bought and paid for Zionist shill.
            Perhaps to a self centered Jew, this gift giving (or re-gifting) is viewed as a form of generosity, but to the rest of the world, it is a blatant form of self serving criminality in the form of the most despicable act of corruption, treason and cowardice.

        • Abby Joseph

          Ummmm Bob…. WRONG Some serious uneducated responses in the comments.

        • gs07aaa

          If you’re black you have to get sterilized – a classic illustration of the fevered anti-Semitic imagination. Why on earth would Israel want to sterilize part of its Jewish population? And what you say about marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with “race”. It’s a religious matter not a racial one!

        • Adam Katav

          I’m from Israel and this may be 9 month old but I ran into this article and your comment and I felt like I had to say something: this is bullshit. Literally everything you said is 100%, pure bullshit.

          • Bob339

            Go home little jewbot.

        • Donna Ross

          CORRECT, Bob339! Go for it!

        • Ger

          And to think some people thought these squatters were racists.

        • Eli Huerta

          I hate your animal race!

      • Canuck4antimuslimworld

        Don’t forget who is at the forefront of mass immigration in Europe, Great Britain and the Americas. Jews, that’s who (Barbra Spectre types).

        They force multiculturalism on every nation except Israel, where they engage in ethnic cleansing of all non-Jews. Israel plays out a systematic genocide of Palestinians constantly, and will continue to do so until they’ve murdered every last Palestinian living on their home land. (Palestine)

        We hear about rockets from Gaza, and that Israel has the right to defend herself. What we don’t hear is, Israelis constantly flatten entire Palestinian communities with bull dozers, driving Palestinians out with hardly a few items they can carry as they flee the collapse of their ancestral homes and communities. Make no mistake, this IS an illegal land grab, and an act of war by any standard, so it IS Palestine, not Israel, that has the right to defend herself.

        They are forced into a “Warsaw Ghetto” that is, “…the Gaza Strip”. With nearly 2 million Palestinians forced to live on just 80 square miles of isolated land, it is a prison camp of epic proportions. If they dare fight back (fire a dud rocket once in a while) they are slaughtered in mass. Israeli citizens watch this genocide from hill tops, they jump (often spilling their popcorn) and cheer with glee as US made bombs detonate in densely populated apartment buildings, killing innocent men women, children and the elderly indiscriminately.

        We can thank the Jewish Barbra Spectres of the world for the low life 3rd world swill that enters and drains our once great nations of our identities and our wealth.

        THIS IS WHY anti-Semitism is on the rise everywhere.

        Watch this video, the words come right out of Barbra Spectres own mouth. “Jews are at the forefront of multiculturalism, and will be resented for it” she says. Damn right we do! Get the hell out of here!
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LjvSIBKVc

        I hang my head in shame, because my government is standing in support of this apartheid mad dog state called Israel.

        • JoshuaCzajkowski

          Sod off you anti-Semite, go be with your Islamo-fascist brothers and sisters. You and others like you are a stain on Western civilisation.

    • La Fold

      Sadly Jambo I have met many people up here in the frozen north that do hate Israel. All in a very “right on, tie dyed, i smoke grass and once read a book of poetry” kind of way.
      Have had many an enlightening discussion about Israel. For instance I never knew there were no Arabs in Israel or that Arabs werent allowed in the Knesset. I think my favourite was that America invented Israel after the 2nd world war!
      Again scratch beneath the surface and most of the time it shows either a glaring ignorance of the history of the conflict or just good old fashioned Judenhass.

      • Jambo25

        They will be members of the more brain damaged left as you note. Think George Galloway and pals.

        • La Fold

          some sort of planks who wear guy fawkes masks and talk about taking down the system man!

          • Jambo25

            Good point.

      • robert Davis

        In both cases this spells COWARDICE not hate. How can you get the right treatment if you have a wrong diagnostic?

        • La Fold

          In my experience cowardice and hate are often the dearest of bed fellows.

          • John Kinory

            Often allied to terminal stupidity.

          • La Fold

            Yes! However under illusions of intellect and righteousness.

      • TeachESL

        I think you meant to write: I never knew there were Arabs in Israel or that Arabs are in the Knesset. Yes, there is a lot of ignorance concerning the country I made Aliyah to 36 years ago.

      • Callum Green

        And I’ve met many more who have completely valid reasons for hating Israel – like their penchant for dropping bombs on schools full of children because there’s a terrorist in there somewhere.

    • monty61

      Absolutely. It’s ok to be critical of how certain aspects of how country has conducted itself, while still having respect and admiration for the people who built it. And looking at the neighbours, it’s not hard to understand why things have worked out the way they have.

      • Canuck4antimuslimworld

        First of all, the citizens of Israel (Jews) have conducted themselves in Palestine, like a band of drunken Nazis at a bar mitzvah, …since 1948.

        The Jewish population, placed into the stolen lands of Palestine, have either actively, or passively acted as if they have total entitlement over those very lands, that are owned by Palestinians. They have all engaged in the systematic genocide of Palestinians, the instant the poor Palestinians fight the blatant theft and development of their ancestral lands by Jews. How dare they try and protect their land from theft by Jews, uninvited Jews at that.

        Israel was not built by Jews, it was stolen from Palestine, and US tax payers have paid to build the rogue apartheid state to what it is today. To this very day, American tax payers send in excess of 3 billion dollars in aid annually to Israel, for what? so they can cause endless wars and unrest in the middle east? So they can pull off false flag operations (including 9/11) against the USA, killing 3000 American people?, they bite the very hand that feeds them. What does that say about Jews?

        Israel has attacked, bombed and murdered people in every single neighboring country, and whines like a little bitch victim when they retaliate. They have the audacity to call all “Arabs” terrorists, when clearly Israel and the Jews living there are the worst terrorists the world has ever seen to date, far surpassing even the Nazis in the atrocities they’ve committed.

        I cannot wait until Iran builds an arsenal of Nukes, to level the playing field, considering Israel has in excess of 300 Nukes of its own, all of which violate international laws regarding nuclear arms. Considering their violent psychotic murderous mentality, I would rather see Iran with nukes, then Israel any day. Iran hasn’t attacked nor invaded any other nation in 200 years, Israel does this on a daily bases, “defending its self” Lies, lies and more lies.

        I would love to see each and every surrounding Arab nation walk through Israel, from all sides, and kick their asses right the hell out of Palestine. Tomorrow would be soon enough.

        They can start by shooting down the head terrorist and “War Criminal” extraordinaire Benjamin Netanyahu’s plane as it leaves the USA today. I can’t believe he has the audacity to stand before Congress, uninvited in effort to coerce the USA into another Jew war, this time with Iran over their right to develop nukes. Most especially when they (nukes) are most dangerous in the hands of the severely sociopathic Jews, than in the hands of any other nation on earth.

    • watsa46

      The silent majority, if it is true, is guilty of being silent.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      What you think about Israel is neither here or there. The Israeli authorities in this article believe that Europeans hate them. Is their perception correct?

      • Jambo25

        I cannot speak for the whole of Europe but in far distant Scotland I doubt that that is true. In fact, up here, if we have any view on Israel its probably one of admiration.

        • John Kinory

          Not the impression most people would have of Dundee…

          • Jambo25

            Don’t think that the Labour loonies who used to run Dundee represented the people of that city in their obsessive support, at one time, of Palestine.

          • John Kinory

            They were elected, weren’t they? As was Hamas in Gaza.

          • Jambo25

            Up until fairly recently the good people of Dundee would have elected a donkey with a red rosette regardless of their views on Palestine. The Palestinian flag over Dundee town hall was during the period when the awful Galloway was there. I think they actually twinned with Nablus. Thankfully he and his closer mates have gone.
            Where you do see Palestinian flags, for some weird reason, is amongst Celtic supporters. You also see lots of Irish tricolours. This group tends to be pretty anti-independence.

          • La Fold

            The Nelson mandela flags and scarves within all those tricolours as well.
            Will they ever stop playing the vicTIMs?

          • Jambo25

            I doubt that some of them ever will. Some of them actively embrace it. Most of my Celtic supporting pals despise them.

        • WeNeedPeaceNow

          The people of Scotland don’t hate Israel? Well then, just invite a few of their jew bankers, financial fraudsters, and pro-Israeli politicians in your coutnry and when it starts to collapse then come back here and tell us what an honor it was to have had them destroy your country.

    • WeNeedPeaceNow

      What planet are you living on? There isn’t a single American that likes Israel once they learn of the 13,000 AIPAC criminals that are funneling all our tax dollars into that war mongering nation of criminals. 500 million at a clip for Israel but nothing for Americans? You think the average American citizen agrees with that? Dying for Israel’s wars against the entire Middle East? You think Americans want to send their children to die in any more wars for your zionist regime? You are out of your mind hasbara troll. We Americans hate you Israelis and wish for only the worst for your country of criminals.

      • Jambo25

        I’m not American. I’m Scottish and happen to have visited the Mid East including Israel. I therefore know that Israel, as a society, is vastly superior to most Arab ones.

        • WeNeedPeaceNow

          Yes, because they are parasites that have stolen trillions from us Americans. Jews of Israel are criminals living in a criminal empire built on the blood of American people and their tax dollars. Research a little for goodness sake and you will see how lopsided the forced relationship in between us Americans and those jew parasites really is. We are getting robbed by these hook nosed thieves.

          • Jambo25

            I think you need help of a professional kind.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Notice you can’t dispute facts? You know who really needs help of the professions kind? The criminals like Netanyahu and the AIPAC cockroaches who want us Americans to die in their war against Iran which can be solved easily with diplomacy and negotiations. But you want war, don’t you? The jew AIPAC war of Iraq wasn’t enough was it Smeagol? How many dead Americans families will satisfy your blood lust you eternal parasite jew lover? Personally, as an American I do not want war with Iran for Israel. How about you? You are either a jew yourself, a hasbara troll, or so stupid that you don’t even bother to learn about where our American government is going and where all our taxpayer dollars are going to. You don’t even wonder how we got into 17 TRILLION in debt that we American people didn’t create? You have no clue, do you? or you simply don’t care that our economy is crashing and that Israel is the sole reason it is. Perhaps when you sit down and read REAL history not censored by jew criminals you will see that Israeli jews are doing to us Americans as they once did to the German people. Are you really stupid enough to believe the lie that the jews were put into work camps for absolutely no reason and not the same money manipulations that they continue to do to this day? Name one money scammer off the top of you head, I bet you are thinking Madoff, right? Well, what is he? Simple a systematic problem with the American government and finance flooded with jews. Usurers, money lenders, and criminals. When the American dollar crashes and it will, when people are left wondering who did it, the fingers will all point to the same people who did it to the German people and they will all have one thing in common, they will all be jews. Insult me all you like, but the truth will remain the truth.

          • Jambo25

            Pheno-Barbitone might help.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Zyklon B might help your kind to stop leeching off my fellow Americans as well. See, there are “solutions” to be found everywhere. Now be a good hasbara troll and tell us Americans why billions of our tax dollars are better spent in Israel instead of America during the worst economic recession ever. CAN YOU PLEASE??? oh, and can you also explain why Israel is the only country advocating war against Iran when every American doesn’t want that or the rest of the world for that matter? …and can you explain how a country with 300+ illegal undeclared nuclear weapons somehow feels threatened by Iran which frankly deserves to have a nuclear weapon to deter you slimy Israelis from bombing them indiscriminately like you do to every country in the Middle East. Now run along, don’t you jews have some Palestinian children to snipe who throw rocks at you because you stole their families’ land? or maybe you can continue using phosphor bombs to melt their skin off like the last bombing you amazing human rights violators love to use. Israel – what is holy about a country built on the corpses of over 1 million villagers and farmers, a displaced 4 million more victims, and a harbinger of 300+ illegal unregistered nuclear weapons? What God in their right mind loves a fully militarized country of psycho jews that butchered over 1 million innocent people and continues to bomb, shoot, and destroy the lives of mostly villagers, farmers, and bedouins?

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Sure, call out the scumbag Israelis for stealing our American taxpayer money by the trillions and we Americans are all either crazy or “anti-semetic”. Piss off hasbara rat. We Americans know you scum sucking thieves got kicked out of every country for a very valid reason. Nation wrecking thieves.

            Some of the real hard world currency costs of Israel on us sucker American taxpayers.

            ifamericansknew.org/stat/cost_of_israel.html

            veteranstoday.com/2013/07/17/how-much-does-israel-cost-the-average-american/

            God damn I hate Israel. You bunch of leeches and parasites. I hope you all die.

          • Jambo25

            I think you need that help desperately quickly. From a Church of Scotland Presbyterian resident in Edinburgh, Scotland . So, not an Israeli Jew.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Still no response to the facts, huh rat face? If you aren’t a hasbara troll or chosen hook nose, why do you care so much that your buddies in Israel are exposed as leeches and more and more Americans are getting angry that our government has money for Israel but no money to use for even the most basic things like taking care of bridges and roads in the United States or funding schools or using that money to help the economy recover. Hmmmmmm… you really care, don’t you?? Funny how the most basic and logical thing for our American politicians to do in America is suddenly to give billions to Israel instead of using OUR AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS FOR OUR COUNTRY. Yeah, keep trying to throw insults there buddy, it just shows everyone who read this post what a hook nosed parasite you Israelis and pro-Israeli zionist scum really are. Sure, we Americans are nuts to insist that our tax money be used at home instead of perpetuating genocide in the Middle East. Yeah, sure, you aren’t a jew bag POS. Yeah, you are a “scottish” gentleman who believes that American taxpayer money is better served starting wars for Israel and butchering people rather than helping the American economy. Yeah, keep on trying to prove that message as a rational one and my messages of take care of Americans first instead of hook nosed thieves. Yeah, sure, you are a “scot”.. cough cough…. jewbag… cough cough.

          • WeNeedPeaceNow

            Sure, just keep it up with your bull sh*t responses that don’t respond to the real reason which is the leeching of the American economy by Israeli jews. Sure there buddy, just keep trying to make anyone that is asking why is my economy funding a terrorist state sound like something they shouldn’t ask. Yeah, you are not a jew. Sure, that’s why you are fighting so hard to change the topic. That’s why you simply can’t answer a single question posed or deny the articles and facts. Yeah, you aren’t a scumbag POS jew. cough cough…yeah…i believe you are a “scot”. yup…cough cough… jewbag. lol

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            You’re right, he does need professional help.

            He needs the professional help of a President that isn’t a puppet for the Zionist Jews that are robbing our nation of billions and trillions of dollars.

            He needs the professional from a Congress that can’t be bought by those same Zionist Jews, and tricked into Jew war after Jew war, that costs our once great nation both lives and billions of dollars.

            …and more importantly, he needs the professional help from a military that’s willing to put an end to the most despicable nation of psychotic murdering supremacists by nuking them off the face of the earth.

            He needs the professional help of a police force, willing to arrest the biggest financial criminals in the country, and the professional help of a court willing to sentence those criminals to death for treason.

            Then, and only then will the world be a peaceful and happy place to live and prosper.

            You too may find the world more enjoyable, since your investments and bank accounts won’t be wiped out by one criminal act after another.
            You’ll never again see that criminal do so with complete impunity, ever again. They’ll pay for their crimes with their lives, just once, and it’s over for them.
            You’ll be able to travel more, because you have money. You’ll do so without threat of terrorism.
            Come to think about it, WE ALL need that kind of professional help, don’t we?

          • Jambo25

            Nazi Alert! Nazi Alert!

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            Oh, here we go again. No legitimate argument against what I say, …because there is none. So you immediately resort to character assassination.
            I’ll take that as a complement and confirmation of my accuracy in describing the societal problems caused predominantly by Jews.
            Besides, the word “Nazi” comes from “AshkeNAZI”, as in, the “fake Jews” from 7th century Khazaria, that converted from Orthodox Christianity and Islam to Judaism, …because only that scum sucking, demonic, Judean religion promotes “usury and debt enslavement”, while the other religions outright frown on it.
            The typical life blood of a Jew has always been to profit from the hardships of others. Having the power to cause more frequent hardships, increases their profits exponentially. Rather than use their brilliant minds to better all of society, they use it to enslave society, and destroy the very nations where they gained the most profits from. Parasites, total parasites,
            So, the next time you accuse anyone of being a “Nazi”, don’t forget the origin of the word/name.
            It meant, “Dirt-bag, usurious fucking Jew”, long before it meant bad ass Germans …that saw Jews for what they really are, treasonous, back stabbing traitors.

        • Canuck4antimuslimworld

          In what way is Israel superior to any of her Arab neighbors?
          …perhaps if you consider their inherent ability to murder indiscriminately, and their ability to do so while completely devoid of conscience, anyone they feel like murdering, anywhere on earth? On that point, I would agree.

          Israel has caused more civil unrest, war and terrorism the world over, than all other nations combined, and always cry the victim.

          Never has the world seen or laid witness to human behavior more savage, barbaric and genocidal, in the history of mankind, than that of the Jews occupying Israel.

          An entire nation of like minded, sociopathic mad men, bent on the destruction of every nation they touch in their endless lust for power and greed. No amount of human suffering is too high a price for “Goyim” to pay, for the advancement of Israel and Jews.

          They are a total disgrace to all of humanity, and are without a doubt, the worst enemy of truth, peace and harmony in the world today.

          The entire world would be a far better place without them. I sincerely hope I live long enough to see that world.

    • TRUTH

      that’s because all of Americas wealth is aiding these illegal occupants in a region they don’t belong .askenazis khazars should be back in Germany and poland they are not true jews they have been illegal since 1948 and had the british aid them in stealing Israel land..khazars are not the true descendants of Abraham.khazars should shut up about anti Semitism because first off they are not semites they are European who are from Europe

      • Jambo25

        Ah! the old Arthur Koestler Khazar story. Utter bollocks of course but anything to attack Israel I suppose. Try and read something other than fiction.

        • Canuck4antimuslimworld

          and what do you recommend we read?

          The Anne Frank Story, by a lamp with a shade made from a Jews hide …after bathing with soap made from the fat of Jew? How about watching that “Misha” movie? or Swindlers list? Would you recommend we read and watch these? are they “non-fiction” enough for you?

          each and every one of these holocaust hoax stories have been proven to be filled with lies.

          “The holocaust, 6 million lies” …Just remove one small “v” and the truth emerges.

          The world is waking up, and your “Shoah Business” is done.

          If the Jews don’t stop their behavior before the entire world wakes up, and takes heed of where the root of ALL global financial problems lay, there will be a real holocaust. The difference being, …this time the whole world will be involved, the numbers will be quadrupled, and it won’t be a lie.

          • Jambo25

            I generally try to engage with whatever arguments are put forward against my views but I wont with you as you are a mentally insane scumbag. Crawl back under whatever rock you emerged from.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            You choose not to engage me on this issue because you simply have nothing of substance to counter my arguments with. I no longer buy the “Poor persecuted Jew” story.
            I was once naive to what the Jews are doing, and after researching it myself, I’ve learned that they’ve brought the wrath of numerous nations upon themselves, by their own actions, (far too many to list here) …while crying “the victim”.

            There are many valid reasons why the Jews have been evicted, 109 times, from every
            European Nation in the past 2 millennium. According to your arguments, …that’s
            because these European Nations were filled with (hundreds of millions) of “insane scumbags”?

            It can’t possibly be the result of how Jews behave in every nation they manage
            to infiltrate. It can’t possibly be that Jews continually destroy these nations with their corrupt and usurious business practices, …for personal gain. Feeding their endless lust for power and greed always results in the demise of the host nation, which is an acceptable outcome or result for the Jew. In their view, their own personal needs far surpass the needs of the millions living there.

            Without a doubt, they are a group of people with above average intelligence. However, they do not use their level of intelligence to further or benefit society. Conversely, they use their intelligence to manipulate, lie, cheat,
            steal and murder their way into, and through every nation foolish enough to allow them in, like a parasite does to a dead or dying corpse.

            The wake behind every league of Jewish parasites, is filled with dead and financially ruined nations. Since 2001, these corpses have been mounting to epic proportions. It is now beyond blatantly obvious who is causing the financial ruin of these once great nations. …and they continue to do so with utter impunity.

            The biggest obstacle for the survival and growth of a such a parasite is, it needs a constant supply of fresh host nations to leech off of.

            Host nations are either infiltrated by these parasitical Jews (USA, Great Britain, Canada and Australia etc.) or a reign of terror is unleashed upon the potential (oil rich) host, by way of deception. …Which happens to be the
            motto of the Mossad. It is done with the full support of our “free and objective – Main Stream Media” (AKA MSM) in effort to precondition or brainwash the masses into believing “it’s okay to murder and rob people that are not like us”. The story line always goes as follows; “Poor Rebels are fighting for freedom and Democracy in …”, but in reality the rebels are fully funded, armed and organized mercenaries, they’re paid by the
            Jews to cause such conflict, while the MSM continue with their sob story, as laid out to them by their Zionist puppet masters (Jews). The mindless mass of “Do-Gooders” can’t wait to spread Democracy and aid the Jews in their war for profit efforts. Let the (war) games
            begin!

            Once successfully infiltrated, these host nations are used to wage war upon other potential (oil rich) hosts. They are forced to borrow billions of dollars at compounding interest from the parasitical Jew, to fund and fight the wars for the Jew. Seemingly, the hands of the Jews remain clean, but in reality are stained with the blood of tens of millions of dead bodies found in their wake.

            There is NO price in human suffering (of Goyim) too high to pay, for the
            advancement of a single Jew.

            We’re onto your vile and despicable behavior, so take your parasitical asses the hell out of our nations, or you WILL be removed again, and again, by whatever force necessary,
            until you learn to play nicely with others.
            Got it?

          • Jambo25

            I tend not to engage with mentally insane Nazis.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            Nazi? …as in AshkeNAZI Jews, where the name came from, for their barbaric behavior?
            …we’ve come full circle in our argument now, haven’t we?

            …as in 95% of Jews living in apartheid Israel today, that therefore have NO legitimate claim to Israel. Are you accusing ME of being THAT kind of AshkeNazi?
            Perhaps the Holocaust didn’t even happen, …or AshkeNAZI Jews didn’t learn their lesson from their history, and are therefore damned to repeat it.

            After all, seeing how the AshkeNAZI Jews go on genocidal rampages, killing mostly unarmed Palestinians for trying to fight the blatant theft of their ancestral lands, seems harsh no? How could a race of people that were victims of genocide, turn around and treat other innocent people like that? …the logic escapes me.
            I would hazard a guess, that the rich Ashkenazi Jews that escaped Germany, setup the poor AshkeNAZI Jews for atrocities, so they can claim a holocaust happened, without which the lands of Palestine could never been extorted out of Great Britain, ..who had no right to give it to anybody, but that’s a moot point now.
            How do you feel about being betrayed like that, by your own kind? doesn’t that alone show you what sort of people they really are?

            Personally, I don’t particularly like either, Jewish Nazi’s nor German Nazi’s …and for obvious reasons.

            I’m confused.

    • Ayesha Aslam

      I do not think that being a first world country provides Israel the moral access to barbarism. Is killing, bombarding and shooting your definition of a progressive and a civilised country. Is this what’s called the modern civilisation. i think it denotes your own incivility. I can only think about the story of Pocahontas. Many a times you find out that a savage is no real barbarian. It eats and kills for food. The real barbarians are the ones who kill for worldly means such as land and lust. This is worse than being a carnivorous animal. As you say that ‘Israel is superior to its Arab neighbours in virtually every way’ . My question is so what? Do you think that being rich would justify the deeds of Israel.

      • Jambo25

        Israel does not persecute gays, Christians or treat women like dirt. Israeli politicians will not normally be shot or flung off roofs by their opponents etc etc etc.

        • Ayesha Aslam

          So what. Its good if it does not persecute gays and treat women like dirt. But this does not give it the license to bombard Palestine. Did Palestine order it or force Israel to persecute gays and treat women badly. And as you say “Israel does not persecute gays, Christians or treat women like dirt”, I would just add that you are absolutely right sir. Israel persecutes only Muslims and treat women worse than filth.

          • Jambo25

            Yet the Arab Christians I met were perfectly clear that they were happier and more secure in their Israeli citizenship than they would be in any Arab state. Incidentally, in what way does Israel treat women worse than filth?

          • Ayesha Aslam

            Okay great for them. I have no objection in that. It is but obvious, logical and definite that Arab Christians will feel more secure in their Israeli citizenship. Who in the world is going to feel secure in a country that is bombarded and shelled_not even the Palestinians themselves. And side by side Israel is sided with America. Then most obviously people having the isreali citizenship would have the most benefits. I would still say that Arabs may or may not be happy with the citizenship_thats not my concern. My concern is that this does not give it the license to bombard Palestine.

          • Jambo25

            The reality is that Israel is about the only place where Arab Christians, secularists, gays etc etc can live a reasonably free and secure life.

          • Ayesha Aslam

            And who in the world is asking this question. Security is not the bone of contention here. I do not think you are even reading my answers. Okay good luck.

    • AugustineThomas

      By “progressive” are you referring to the baby-murdering countries that have the highest rates of teen STDs in recorded history? Some progress that is!

    • AM

      Is it superior to Dubai or Abu Dhabi.

      Israel is undeveloped compared to these places. Like a poor neighbor who relies on handouts to survive.

      • Jambo25

        Israel is infinitely more developed in a real sense than Dubai or Abu Dhabi. It is technically advanced in a way that those places aren’t. It has a couple of world class universities and very high standards of scientific and technical ability spread throughout its population. It is not dependent on a finite natural resource. It is not dependent on importing ex pats to run the place.

        • AM

          lol The UAE has a far higher GDP, a far higher GDP per capita and is far more advanced.

          Israel imports technology and money from western countries. The amount of technology transfer from the west to Israel is ludicrous. It’s a nation of ex pats, they just naturalize them.

          The big difference between the UAE other than the fact the UAE out performs Israel at every step is that it is not sucking on the teet of western money and technology.

          The nation with the most advanced indigenous technology in the middle east is Iran. This is the only country that is making scientific and technological strides on their own.

          You are try to fit a square block into a circular hole.

          • Jambo25

            You’re living in a dream world. Israel is a major technological innovator in a number of fields. Medicine, IT, chemicals etc. All countries are the beneficiaries as well as the donors in technology transfer. Its just that Israel is a full participant, originating technology as a well as receiving it. Give me details of any new technology originating in the Arab world or Iran.

          • AM

            No you mean there is a huge amount of technology transfer (Stealing) from the US to Israel. Israel is known for it’s stealing of technology and money from western countries. Usually it’s Germany and the US.

            Iran is well known for their development in science and technology. Although it is not world beating it is indigenous and advancing quickly. Iranian engineers and scientists are world renowned for their abilities and skills. It is well known that many western engineering and science companies are filled with Iranian ex-pats.

            Israelis are not a smart group of people, they’re goo dat playing the victim card and stealing technology, but they don’t have the intelligence or creativity to develop anything of their own.

          • Jambo25

            Israelis have made major inventions and developments in a variety of fields some of which I have outlined above. You’re probably using some of them in your computer or Tablet. Name me one innovation which has been originated in the Islamic world over the past 500 years.

          • AM

            No they haven’t. Israel has made nothing. They’re a bunch of neanderthals who rely on stealing technology from other countries. They’re good at killing people and they’re good at stealing money/technology.

            There’s a reason there is sanctions on Iran and it’s not because of nuclear weapons it’s because sneaky Israelis lobbied the US because they knew they can’t control the economic/technological progression of Iran.

            Kind of ironic how the only country in the Middle East properly fighting IS is the only country with sanctions…

          • Jambo25

            Quite simple. Name me one scientific or technological breakthrough that any Islamic state or society has created over the past 500 years. I am Scottish. We have, since the 16th/17th centuries, been responsible for improving and advancing the lot of mankind more than the entire Islamic world put together. Up until the mid 20th century the Scottish population never exceeded 4,000,000 people. Probably the only other people to exceed the Scottish per capita contribution are Ashkenazim Jews.

    • http://new-covenant.co.uk NewCovenantNet

      Jambo – I have found the exact opposite to be true amongst Christians.
      Please don’t equate Arabs with Islam. Many Arabs, even in the State of Israel/Palestine are Christians, and there were many thousands more before 1947 – living in harmony with their Jewish neighbours and friends. Abraham was an Arab with the promised Seed in his loans. Judaism is a religion to which many, many, 1000s of “goyim” have converted to over the centuries, whose dependents make up the majority of those now occupying Palestinian land.
      The Middle East problem is not the Arabs, it is Israel – ask any honest Middle East historian worth his salt.

      • Jambo25

        Strange that as the Arab Christians I’ve spoken to are not at all fond of their Islamic brothers. In fact, they’ve moved to the UK, Canada and Australia, from Egypt and Lebanon, to get away from them.

    • Callum Green

      I don’t think Israel being a nicer place to live than the likes of Syria and Saudi Arabia was ever up for debate…

      They weren’t confusing anything – the majority of the UK (and I suspect the entire planet) dislikes Israel. Not because we think their lifestyle is less developed than it is, but because they have a nasty habit of murdering thousands and thousands of Palestinians – who are penned up in an illegal, degrading prison, which is a war crime – on the belief that the life of an Israeli is more important than the life of a dozen Palestinians.

      I will rejoice with the rest of them when a Hamas terrorist is shot. I will not however happily look on and see a bomb dropped on dozens of children, who Israel knew were there, because there was probably a terrorist hiding somewhere in the school.

      This is where the tired mantra of “they have the right to protect themselves” generally pops up – and yes, they absolutely do. Target a Hamas military installation and I won’t have the slightest objection – even if a few civilians get killed as collateral damage. The attacks on civilian populated areas however are unforgivable. If Israel was genuinely under siege then it would be more understandable, but as someone who values human life, I don’t personally think the killing of thousands and thousands of Palestinian civilians in a supposed effort to stop the killing of about 3 Israelis a year is ever justifiable. I use the word supposed because it’s blatantly obvious that this war could never be won militarily. If the money Israel has spent on bombs had been used on developing Palestine instead, I guarantee the Palestinian populace would consider Israel a friend. That is after all the only way Hamas was able to come to power. Israel dropped bombs on them, Hamas gave them food and shelter – who do you think they’re going to flock to…

    • username

      superior to it’s Arab neighbors,huh? Kuwait, Qatar, UAE. they’ve never bombed anyone. thus your argument is invalid

    • Eli Huerta

      Your a faggot! The non-semitic hebrews are an inferior race! They’re not even semitic or human beings!

    • marxistgulag

      Three hundred and seven hasbara trolls have upvoted you so far.

      • Jambo25

        Naw, they’re all probably Scotnat Presbyterians like me.

  • Shazza

    To all those critics who ‘hate’ Israel, I have one question to ask –

    If you absolutely had to go and live in the Middle East, which country would you choose?

    • Anthony

      Most of them will probably say Dubai.

      • geronimoooo4

        ah yes, Dubai, glitz in your face, squalor and slavery behind the facades. And remember: if you’re a woman, and you get raped, you’ll go to jail.
        Enjoy.

        • Normando782

          And you can be treated as a dhimmi. By the way are you bringing a wife or a daughter?

        • Oli Scho-Rob

          Haha, well said.

        • Jack Falcon

          actually dubai is a lot safer then the average U.S city And the ‘slavery’ is better ‘slavery’ then the mounds of immigrants in the u.s trying to get work.construction work is hard but those ‘slaves’ send billions back home each year which is why they are not wearing chains,they came there willfully.exploitation is another thing and the world still turns around it

      • Cyril Sneer

        Unless they were a woman or gay or both, in which case you’d have to be certifiable to want to move to Dubai.

      • global city

        Is Dubai a freedom loving country…. or just shiny?

        • JAM726

          Dubai isn’t a country….

          • global city

            Insightful contribution to the discussion! 🙂

      • Bobloblaw67

        The nation that puts you in prison fir heterosexual PDAs

      • Nyyankee

        Dubai will b like the rest when that oil money runs out

        • Jack Falcon

          dubai doesn’t rely on oil now,it never did it was a trade hub before biz hub then it became a tourist thing

    • readysf

      Israel if course! I would also have preferred apartheid era South Africa. But so what?

    • Alexbensky

      The American screenwriter and playwright, David Mamet, has a thought experiment in his book, “The Secret Knowledge.” It’s about how he became a conservative and if it’s available in the UK it’s worth a look.

      Imagine the following: The worst Israel basher in the western world is in a foreign airport. World War III has broken out and there are seats available on only two planes. One of them is going to an Arab capital and one to Tel Aviv. Which plane will the Israel basher pick.

      Unless the person is insane he will jump on the flight to Tel Aviv, and if he’s got children, he’ll fight and do anything possible to get them on the Tel Aviv flight.

      Even the Palestinians know much of their rhetoric is lies. There are many authenticated incidents during Operations Cast Lead and Defensive Shield, the Gaza incursions, where Israel made thousands of automated cell phone call to warn people that their area was going to be hit, or gunships or fighters about to make a run on a building until people run up on the roof and wave, whereupon the aircraft peels off for a couple of minutes. Meanwhile, this last week’s missile rain was shot from populated areas of Gaza, even Hamas knowing Israel is very reluctant to hit such areas.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        The world has become a strange place when phone calls from pilots about to bomb your house to dust are viewed as an act of mercy.

        • Shazza

          Would have been great if the people in the Twin Towers and those on the bus/tube on 7/7 had been given a warning to vacate these places.

          • jamhay1000 .

            Perhaps the celebrating dancing Israeli “moving men” who by their own admission were sent to “document the event” should have warned someone. Spare us your lies. Israeli mossad was at least aware of the plot and at worst fully involved in its execution.

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            I can’t speak for the bombing in the Tube, but during 9/11, the Jews were warned not to go to work that day. Larry Silverstein and 2 of his children were absent that day. Ironically Larry was onsite every single day, except on 9/11. His son was stuck in traffic, and I don’t know what excuse his daughter had, but rest assured, the Israeli Mossad made sure to warn the Jews at the WTC buildings before they executed the operations to bring them down.

        • Michael Sager

          Not acts of mercy. But under the rules of war you are obliged to minimise risk to civilians, and in these cases Israel had reason (which is sufficient under the laws of war) to attack such buildings. But there are 2 war crimes here.
          1. Hamas firing rockets from these civilian locations, hence putting civilians at risk.
          2. Hamas firing rockets at targets that they had no reason to believe were military, like Israeli towns with no military presence

          • Canuck4antimuslimworld

            Sorry, but those are not war crimes. Palestine has full right to lob rockets at Israel, for stealing and developing for Jews, the ancestral lands of PALESTINE, by whatever violent means the Jews wish.
            Destroying homes, and taking land that does not belong to you IS AN ACT OF WAR, so, Palestine is 100% authorized by international law, to defend its land, or to fight the aggressors.

            Israel commits war crimes against Palestine on a daily bases but our shill media never reports that. They only air the retaliations of Palestinians against the poor Jew victims. All Bull Shit!!!

            When Israel destroys their homes, they are forced to flee to the Gaza Strip. The Gaza strip is no more than 80 sq miles, and houses nearly 2 million Palestinians. They have no military, nor room for a military base, same goes for air force and navy.

            They lob rockets from residential areas, because they have no where else to fire them from.

            Israel has, upon numerous occasion bombed UN safe houses, even after receiving their co-ordinates no less than 14 times, from the UN, as well as the Palestinian authority. Israel subsequently murdered (war crime) a couple hundred women and children, in one genocidal air raid alone.
            Israel also uses white phosphor as a weapon against Palestinian citizens, even though they know it is a war crime, and they have a visual on the innocent civilians. The ONLY reason Israel stopped this atrocity, is not because it is illegal to use as a bomb, not because of the absolutely horrific effects it has on human beings, but because “It doesn’t photograph well”.
            Israel uses “Group punishment” as a rule, as they indiscriminately bomb known civilian buildings, hospitals and schools and UN safe houses. ALL WAR CRIMES.
            The rockets fired by Palestinians, are dumb rockets as they have no guidance systems. Most have no war-head, and cause only impact damage, …when one in one thousand hit a target that is.
            Israel murders a minimum of 1 or 2 thousand Palestinians to every Israeli killed.
            So, you can just fuck off with your comments that condone the systematic genocide of Palestinians by your precious Jews.
            The Jews are always the aggressors and the rockets are simply, a lame attempt at retaliation for the constant atrocities, land grabs and murder of innocent Palestinians (mostly women, children & the elderly, by Jews.

          • Michael Sager

            You obviously do not know the legal definitions of war crimes. One of them is aiming at targets you know have no military purpose. Which Hamas did. Not a single rocket of the 4000 was aimed at Israeli military: all were aimed at civilian targets

        • Freda Bothwell

          Yes, but the Arabs give no warning in order to kill as many as possible.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I wasn’t making a point about Israelis versus ‘Arabs.’

      • Shazza

        Totally agree with all of this.

      • James

        Cyprus?

    • Daidragon

      Turkey.

      • Shazza

        You won’t see it or hear about it on the pro-islam MSM/BBC/Sky but are you aware of what is happening in Turkey right now? Ataturk must be turning in his grave.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Turkey is not Islamic in the normal sense of the word – if the BBC can’t be bothered to report on it, this is not because of pro-muslim bias.

          • Shazza

            Are you aware of the trouble, rioting etc. that is happening in Turkey currently? Are you aware of how Erdogan is rapidly doing away with secular Turkey? He is committed to sharia and all aspects of islamism – as I said, Ataturk must be turning in his grave.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            This is not a reply to what I wrote

          • Daidragon

            Rubbish. I’ve been to both countries and there are far more religious extremists in Israel than Turkey. The way the demographics are going there will be more fundamentalist jews than secular jews in israel with the next decade or two. Turkey is a lovely country with lovely people. Far friendlier than the paranoid, arrogant Israeli’s.

          • Freda Bothwell

            Then what is the reason? Have you watched the regular report “Honest Reporting”? or” PMW (Palestinian Media Watch”? THey are rather good.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The BBC has relatively little world affairs coverage; on any given news day, the editors pick one or two international stories. I am surprised they give no prominence to current affairs in Hungary. Turkey is regarded as a NATO country with a secular tradition, so a decision to ignore it would not, I think, be pro-muslim bias.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      As the author claims, we don’t like Israel because we’ve become pessimistic about progress (hence the popularity of greenery and organics). If this is true, Israel’s critics would be happy to live somewhere else. Lebanon, Turkey, Gulf States, Jordan, Iran…foreigners are always protected to an extent from the inconvenience that the locals have to put up with, and even they are not being persecuted by the secret police the whole time. All of these countries have a degree of plurality, resistance and civilisation that is underestimated in the UK, and many of their residents who leave never become reconciled to the loss.

      • Freda Bothwell

        There are Arabs in the Knesst – they have the vote, religious freedom and full civll rights, often working side by side with the Israelis.. Don’t believe the lies they tell you, pretending to be a victim to get their way.

        • Freda Bothwell

          They don’t go to these other countries because a) it is their ancestral homeland and b) It was chosen and given to them because there were so few people there because of the desolation and dryness of the land –how different it is today,

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Freda, I know all this. My post was about the other countries of the region that people would choose to live in if they rejected Israel. Workers abroad are not always looking to reproduce the living condiitons of their democratic home country; I was happy in China, even though millions of Chinese are trying to escape.

          The Arabs of Israel are not the same – demograpphically, historically, as the Arabs of Gaza or the West Bank. This is the population that provokes all the arguments.

          • Freda Bothwell

            Yes, I totally agree. It seems I may have misinterpreted some of your posts. I too was happy living for more than 20 years in Africa (although I did find it hard fighting in the bush war against Mugabe – we were specific targets.)

        • Jack Falcon

          why would you vote to be bombed and bulldozed by israel?

          • Freda Bothwell

            I imagine you have not been there to see the truth

          • Jack Falcon

            the truth is the land was stolen the a campaign of terror during the mandate and seized threw slaughter.the campaign to create israel began way before ww2 it was just an excuse.

          • Freda Bothwell

            No, sorry, that is not the truth. Honest historical records (as opposed to propaganda and lies) will reveal the basic truths

          • Freda Bothwell

            Mark Twain (non political) along with others recorded practically no Arabs in ‘Palestine ‘

    • Bob339

      Scotland

      • allymax bruce

        I’m looking forward to going to Israel; but I’ll wait until it elects a peaceful Lefty gov.

    • WeNeedPeaceNow

      As an AMERICAN, I would rather die that live in the country that DID 9-11. What insane moron would want to live in the very country that did the Lavon Affair. The country that attacked the USS Liberty. The country that gave us Jonathan Pollard who got hundreds of Americans murdered overseas? What American in his right mind would want to live in the country that takes our money during the worst economic recession? What REAL AMERICANS would want to live in the country that is 100% responsible for crashing our economy by bribing our politicians and sending our children to die in trillion dollar wars that benefit Israel only? What PATRIOTIC AMERICAN would want to live in the country that has not only gotten weapons from us at basement discount prices by using dual citizens in our government to get those prices, but was then caught selling those same weapons to China to use against us Americans? What American in their right mind would want to live in the country that gives us nothing but thieves, parasites, and dual citizen Israelis in our government that care more for the welfare and economy of Israel than America. Nope, would rather die than live in Israel. “Death to all in Israel” will be the future slogan of all Americans. The gig is up slimy jews of Israel. You are thieves and parasites and eventually when the dollar crashes and all fingers point at the slimy jew politicians and Israel, the holohoax will look like a nice day for a picnic.

    • Jack Falcon

      dubai,worked there for a bit,way better then israel.when i was religious I went to israel to walk the streets jesus walked on.I Saw EXACTLY what killed him.Jewish HATRED they abuse the palestinians,spit on you if you have a cross and insult Jesus as a “bastard son of a whore” as one did.nope,religion isn’t my thing anymore but the fact that some foolish christians support israel will come back and bite them in the ass,if the is Israeli’s could they would enact a global holocaust and the christians would be the first to go….

    • flamingjune5dwj

      Sure as hell not Israel! LOL if you think that is the only place in the Middle East worth living. Talk to all the western expats in the GCC making tons of money if they would rather go to Israel. People who say things like this or agree with these kinds of statements have no clue what the Middle East is really like. Fortunately Israel cannot make all places in the Middle East the cesspool that they have turned Palestine into. And don’t come back to me with Iraq or Syria or Iran – how those places have been so f-ed to hell by the west and their backing of dictators – don’t even bother.

  • Raw England

    I support Israel.

    Its geographical position, as you will soon see, will be vital when we finally declare war on Islam.

    Also, the only people who hate Israel are Muslims and the far Left, really; which in itself proves Israel is on the right track.

    NOTE: Whilst I support Israel, I do oppose Jews involving themselves in England’s and other White countries’ politics, as most of them support mass immigration and multiculturalism.

    • basiclogic1

      jews support mass immigration into England?
      The only mass
      immigration is of muslim into the UK, I hardly see the point of local
      Jews supporting that. I makes absolutely NO sense.

      It’s the other way around, they consider getting out of the UK due to the muslim hatred towards them on the streets of London.

      Question is, if a jew was born in the UK, why would you care if he was in parliament? what makes him less British than you?

    • Wessex Man

      Whilst not liking the ruling elite of Israel, I am extremely unfussed about Jews in this country being in charge of any institution of Public Office, just lioke any other Brit.

      You attitudes strike me as being a little to the right of Attila the Hun!

      • Raw England

        Nationalist, Mr Wessex, Nationalist. And Normal White.

        • Daidragon

          Racist pond life. Thick fucking twat.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Let’s clear this up. England is a white country. Jews should stay out of white countries’ politics. You support Jews as long as they stay in Israel and mind their own business. We will need to declare war on Islam at some point. Israel’s location will make this handy. And the far left disagrees with you. Jews, non-whites, ragheads, commies…anyone else you’d like to add to your hit-list?

  • geronimoooo4

    the only people who HATE Israel are mouth foaming Islamic nutters who think it’s okay for the world to have over 35 Muslim countries, but not 1 single Jewish one, and lefty useful idiots who are always proven wrong in hindsight, about everything.

    Whoever wants to be associated with that lot?

    Besides, it seems rather ironic how hard the BDS movement is working to delegitimise Israel, meanwhile all around Israel everybody is killing everybody, and Israel is actually flourishing and prospering! In fact, may I be so bold and just point out: EVERYTHING these people do against Israel, ALWAYS backfires somehow.
    They are like the Palestinians: they don’t know Einstein’s definition of insanity.

    Yeah, you guys really know what you’re doing…..LOL

  • global city

    Another blog that assumes that the obsessions of the Westminster bubble and a few fanatics in academe rings true with opinion at large.

    Brendan, you may hate Israel, and know lots of people who obsess about it, but you profoundly misread the situation. You are like one of those swingers who thinks that everyone is like that, when most see swingers as quite pervy!

    Message to Israel…. the vast majority do not hate you, in fact most respect and like you….and appreciate the mad position in which you find yourselves in that crazy region of the world.

    • harmlessdrudge

      The article is just a bit of red meat thrown for amusement. The rubric is transference: pass the self-hating jew meme around, shriek holocaust denial and anti-semitism the moment Israel is criticised.

      Most Europeans do not hate Israel. They simply decline to give it a free pass on grounds of the holocaust for despicable behaviour. We expect better, even if some Europeans didn’t behave better in the past.

      • global city

        You just raised a number of false flags there. Nobody has said that criticism of Israel is anything other than just that, sometimes justified, usually not.

        Most of the criticism we do see is blind hate masquerading as serious concern. When the chips are down you have to take sides. I side with Israel, as opposed to the ROP adherents.

        • harmlessdrudge

          I side with the powerless victims, in this case the Palestinians driven off their land, blockaded and treated like subhumans. It doesn’t mean I excuse terrorism by Hamas, the PLO or anyone else. Terrorism by a well armed state is just worse, even if it’s in retaliation for attacks.

          When the chips are down I side with those attempting to run humanitarian supplies past the gauntlet of Israeli guards willing to beat protestors. I side with the people who object to illegal settlements on Palestinian land.

          Intransigence begets intransigence. Many Israelis do indeed shriek anti-semitism the moment they are criticized.

          • global city

            But you read the situation wrongly. Would you side with ordinary Germans who were suffering as a result of being in the way while their political leaders were being pursued? Would you wish that Germany should therefore have won the war? Your point disappears up it’s own absurdity.

            With regards the Arab Israeli ‘conflict’, one inside wants the annihilation of the other. You are siding with the forces who want the annihilation.

          • harmlessdrudge

            If a man has been robbed, jailed and is shouting that he will kill the man who put them there when he can, I am more interested in his guilt or innocence than his bad temper.

            Your first point isn’t clear but I think I get the gist. I have no regrets about the outcome but there is a fundamental difference between the Germans and the Palestinians you seem to have overlooked: the Germans were a world power and needed the combined forces of continents to defeat them.

            Just because the Israelis haven’t behave as badly as the Germans did doesn’t mean that they are beyond reproach.

          • global city

            The German people were no more powerful than the Palestinians who do not launch rockets into Israeli schools or have the elimination of the Jew in their charter.

            My point is that, whilst I too feel for individuals who unjustly suffer as a result of their political leaders actions, on the big issue you have to come down against one group or the other.

            On all issues to do with the big picture in the Holy Land, the Israelis are on the right side. They are fighting for their existence, whilst the Palestinians are fighting for more land… and the death of all Jews.

          • Daidragon

            Israel has a right to exist and live in peace. It doesn’t have the right to ignore UN resolutions, steal land and constantly attack it’s neighbours. They should be forced back to their 1967 borders.

          • global city

            But why? They only ‘acquired’ those lands as the result of a war in which they were attacked by opponents determined to kill all the Jews. The 67 borders are difficult to defend in perpetuity, so why should the Israelis hobble themselves so?

          • Rabbi Burns

            The Arabs should be forced back to the 635 AD borders. That would solve many problems.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            You must know that the conquest of Jerusalem in 637 was accomplished by a coalition of Jews and proto-muslims (Islam had not yet coalesced into the religion we now know). This was made easier by the earlier attack on Jerusalem by Persia in 614.

          • Rabbi Burns

            Who were the Jewish commanders during the siege of Jerusalem?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Who were the Jewish commanders during the 614 conquest?

          • Rabbi Burns

            Sorry? Are you saying that the Jewish commanders in 614, Nehemiah ben Hushiel and Benjamin of Tiberias, were also commanders in 637?

          • Rabbi Burns

            I don’t understand. Are you saying that the Jewish commanders in 614, Nehemiah ben Hushiel and Benjamin of Tiberias, were also commanders in 637?

          • John Kinory

            Anyone who shrieks ‘1967 borders’ is so ignorant that he shouldn’t be allowed out without a minder.

          • Alexbensky

            Daidragon, only UN Security Council resolutions have the force of international law, for whatever that’s worth. Which ones has Israel violated? The territories are in dispute, not occupied, under international law, if you want to bring that up. Israel occupied parts of Egypt after three wars (each time retreating for promises of peace) because that land belonged legally to Egypt. That bit about it’s not right to take land by conquest…next time anyone brings that up about Karelia I’ll believe it’s a legitimate point.

            You also should know that it’s obvious that even if the Arabs had accepted partition, there was going to be no Arab state. Egypt, Syria, and Jordan were after whatever they could grab off. For nearly two decades Israel did not control Gaza or the West Bank and yet there was no agitation, even among Palestinians, for their own state, which could have been granted without Israel having anything to say about it.

            I really love that bit about Israel constantly attacking its neighbors. Even the foolishly run invasions of Lebanon in 1982 and 2006, not to mention the three major wars, was a response to being attacked. Same true for the Gaza incursions.

            Rafael, the company that makes Iron Dome, had a booth a couple of years back at the Paris air show. They drew rave reviews…”likely to be effective” (which it is), innovative, wonderful technology, etc. They didn’t sell any. When they asked their usual customers the answer was that there was no market for it.

            No other country on earth, however nice the regime, would be expected to take thousands of missiles without retaliating as fully and forcefully as necessary. When Israel does, that’s aggression and breaking the cease-fire and whatever. Only Israel. If that isn’t anti-Semitism, what is it?

          • Daidragon

            This is just Zionist apologism. Hezbollah resist because they are trying to get you rotters out of the Lebanon. Hamas resist because you keep their people in a concentration camp called Gaza. The PLO resist because you nicked their home and displaced hundreds of thousands of their people. Again , hiding behind the anti semitism card is just lazy and totally predictable from a country that has lost it’s moral compass.

          • John Kinory

            “concentration camp called Gaza” is a deadgiveaway of a swivel-eyed Jew-hater.

          • Schnauzerdash

            The rate of obesity in Gaza is amongst the highest in the world.
            The evil JOOZ are obviously feeding the innocent Palestinians to death.
            It is a concentration “fat” camp

          • Daidragon

            It is a concentration camp. It’s a disgrace that the world just stands by and watches.

          • John Kinory

            It’s a disgrace that dumb people like you can post ignorant antisemitic crap.

          • gerontius

            I don’t think you actually what a concentration camp was.

          • John Kinory

            SC resolutions are not ‘law’. It’s a self-electing voluntary club, with 0 legal legitimacy.

          • oneworld11

            This is an absurd argument, a trend among liberal pro Palestinians, but nothing more than reverse causality. The Palestinians are not angry about land, as they’ve convinced the world. They’re angry that there is a Jewish nation. (Or even that there are Jews at all.) They admit this. There is historical evidence of this. When the land was partitioned, they could have created a state just as Israel did. They chose not to, why?

          • chrismoyler

            After the 48 war, a war which Israel did not initiate, the Jews absorbed their refugees. The Arab world could easily have done so, since they possessed infinitely greater resources. They chose not to, preferring to leave their refugees as a thorn in Israel’s side. That is the plain and simple truth of history.

          • e. brrok

            There were over a million Jews who lost their homes after
            2000 years history in the region. Jewish life in Arab land predates Islam and
            the Arabs, however they were inhumanly dispossessed from their land and property
            and were forcefully expelled. Many ended up in refugee camps living in tents for years. Israel dealt with its refugee issues however Arabs hate for the Jews and the Jewish state compelled them to herd the Palestinians into camps to be used as propaganda weapons and have made these dispossessed individuals into perpetual refugees for four generations.Today Christians and Jews have no life in Moslem lands they are mistreated killed and expelled, according to sharia law they
            have a status of a Dihimi’s that is they are tolerated but penalized, taxed
            heavily for being non believers.

          • Alexbensky

            Chris, the number of Jews forced out of Arab lands after Israel’s independence is about the same as the number of Arabs who left what became Israel, for whatever reason. Unlike many Arabs, their ancestors had lived there for thousands of years. They took none of their property with them.

            Yet by 1955 none of them were in refugee camps and no one seems to be exercised by their travails. But you bring that up and it’s “divisive.” Damn straight.

          • oneworld11

            Well you’ve clearly never been to Israel. You also know nothing of international law. You are either intellectually inferior or you’re one of the people global city referred to, “blind hate masquerading…” as human rights activism. (But really it’s clear that you’re both.) Just for the record, it is not “shrieking antisemitism the moment they are criticized,” just bc you don’t understand the method of assessment or how they’re able to distinguish someone like you from the people who do legitimately criticize Israel. Just like they’re not “illegal settlements,” just bc you’re not educated enough to understand why they actually ARE legal. lol.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            HD has never been to Israel. Does that disqualify him/her from talking about it? I suspect you’ve never been to all kind of places you have an opinion about.

            Because HD disagrees with you, s/he must be stupid or an antisemite. Are there really no other reasons for a political disagreement? I have no take on the legality of the settlements, but there are plenty of experts who don’t see it your way ( as well as some who do).

          • oneworld11

            Well you’ve clearly never been to Israel. You also know nothing of international law. You are either intellectually inferior or you’re one of the people global city referred to, “blind hate masquerading…” as human rights activism. (But really it’s clear that you’re both.) Just for the record, it is not “shrieking antisemitism the moment they are criticized,” just bc you don’t understand the method of assessment or how they’re able to distinguish someone like you from the people who do legitimately criticize Israel. Just like they’re not “illegal settlements,” just bc you’re not educated enough to understand why they actually ARE legal. lol.

          • Adam

            Why do you call it Palestinian land?

          • Alan Mac

            So you really must hate China? I mean Tibet has 1 million dead and entire communities ordered away to be replaced by Chinese. Can you direct me to the anti Chinese forums you engage in please?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            But we have a different set of chauvinist ideas about China – that it’s not really modern, it’s never experienced democracy, it explicitly rejects the west, it’s always been in turmoil, blah. We can’t really expect them to treat Tibetans and Uyghurs properly (in any case, they’re primitive Buddhists and proto-terrorist Muslims). Whereas Israel is a first world country, an outpost of Europe, and we expect its rulers to talk like EU commissioners.

            Still and all: do you think humanitarian impulses are always hypocritical? If I wanted to campaign against child prostitution in Kenya, would you tell me to sort it out in Cambodia first, or attribute my concern to backward ideas about saving the poor african piccaninnies? Are there any legitimate criticisms of Israel, and any people who can utter them?

          • John Kinory

            So you admit that you demand higher standards from Jews. That’s called racism.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            John, this is just name-calling with the aim of closing the discussion down.

            In the first place, I never mentioned Jews.
            In the second place, I was contrasting China (which is not a democracy) with Israel (which is).
            In the third place, my reference to EU commissioners should have tickled your Irony nerve.
            In the fourth place, I suggested that Israel should be judged by the SAME criteria, not special ones.
            In the fifth place, by focusing on an inessential part of my post and taking offence at it, you have ignored my question about hypocrisy vs. legitimate criticism.

          • Brett Cohen

            You’ve bought in to propaganda if you believe that Israeli guards are denying humanitarian supplies to Palestinians. Israel is one of the largest donors to UNRWA and the Palestinian Authority. If you’re referencing the flotilla or any of the rest of the media spectacles put on by Islamists and the far left, do a bit of digging and you’ll see that they were delivering expired medicine and garbage.

            The amount of humanitarian goods Israel delivers into Gaza every day, even on days Palestinian terrorists are shelling Israeli civilians, dwarfs anything the IHH, Code Pink, ISM, or any other lunatics have tried to deliver in their political stunts.

            If your concern is police brutality, then look at what Hamas and the PA do to their own people to stifle dissent before you criticize Israeli police for riot control. Over the past 120 years of this conflict less than 15,000 Palestinians have been killed by Jews/Israelis, and a similar number of Jews/Israelis have been killed by Arabs. Over 100,000 Palestinians have been killed by other Arabs in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria during the same time ala Black September, etc.

            However, it’s pretty obvious that nobody cares about Arab bloodshed unless it’s a Jew who pulled the trigger.

          • ROBERT BROWN

            Thank you Brett, harmless drudge is not anything like his moniker, he is a dangerous imbecile of the Left, indoctrinated and deaf to reason and above all the truth. The Israelis are world-leading in medicine and science, yet are spurned by academia in the West, which tells you a lot about our ‘academics’. What have the muslims produced?………….they emptied a Med teeming with trading ships in the 7th Century AD and filled it with slave-ships, trading in human misery that eclipsed anything the Romans and Persians had done, at least the Romans and Persians contributed to learning and fostered trade….muslims have brought nothing but hatred, bloodshed and misery, all in the name of their wretched ‘Prophet’……curse be upon him.

          • Bobloblaw67

            There is no Palestinian land. The West Bank is Jordanian land. Gaza was Egyptian. Now it is a jew free.

          • John Kinory

            J&S is not ‘Jordanian land’, Bob. Jordan has NIL legal or historical claim to it.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            And is that a good thing? Don’t you think that both Jews and Palestinians have the right to live in any part of Israel?

          • Freda Bothwell

            Not really. The latest statement by the Arabs is that they won’t sign the “Peace Agreement” because they want the whole land, not part of it, and would never recognise a Jewish state, Then a senior Palestinian said yesterday ” God will gather all Jews together so we can kill them” How can you live with neighbours like that?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I think there’s a useful distinction to be made between rhetoric and reality. Zaki’s dumb statement contained an interesting nuance – the idea that Israel is the place where all the world’s Jews should be gathered, a kind of divine plan to bring about the final showdown. This is a piece of messianic tosh, not a serious threat.

          • Inessa

            Ah yes, the underdog theory. It all depends on perspective. The problem is that there is no clear definition of “Palestenian land”. The area of Israel is a tiny sliver, and something like 1/6 of 1% of the Middle East. Yet it’s only any land this sovereign nation claims that is ever disputed as Palestenian land. No part of what is now Egypt or Jordan or Syria is disputed as palestenian land. This despite that after the Sinai was signed over to Egypt, it henceforth was Egyptian land, no complaints from anyone, especially Palestenians. If it’s land for the disenfranchised we’re talking about, after giving up the Sinai, that’s more than 80% of the disputed land, but no Palestenian complaints. Then consider Gaza – no Israeli or Jewish presence, governed by elected Palestinian government, still complaining and calling themselves to be under occupation. Again, it’s about perspective – is life there good and would I want to live there? No. But in terms of self-determination, these people need to work out what they themselves mean. Can they move freely beyond the Israel border? No. But I couldn’t cross from Italy to France on a train because I left my passport at the hotel. Israelis don’t move freely to Gaza or for that matter to Syria or Lebanon. What is more interesting is why don’t they move freely to Egypt and why does no one protest this?

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            Sinai was never anything but Egyptian, at least not in the modern era. It was not part of the British Mandate for Palestine. Black September did try to take over Jordan, but was brutally, and effectively repressed. Arafat left to Beirut. Palestinian Land, ever since the Arab League rejected the partition plan of 1947, is ALL of the the British Mandate. The Arab position, stated succinctly, is that NO Jewish state can exist anywhere on their land without their agreement, if they choose to give it. Gazans are restricted from leaving or entering by sea or air, so Israel essentially is an occupying power, though they have no ‘boots on the ground’.

          • John Kinory

            Gaza has a border with Egypt.
            Goodness, you haters are so ignorant, it’s like taking sweets from a baby.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            I’m not sure you’ve understood my point. In any case, there’s no need to get nasty. I’m well aware that Gaza has a border with Egypt, as well as with Israel. Each of these countries is indeed entitled to restrict movement across their border. However, Gaza also has a seacoast, which by right should be a maritime border, accessible by sea or by air. Israel controls that border as well, not allowing the free movement of people or goods. Therefore, Gaza can legitimately be described as under Israeli military control, or occupied.

            Whether that’s a good or bad thing depends on your POV. The argument can be made that the best way to deal with incessant rocket fire would be to send in ‘boots on the ground’, demand the unconditional surrender of the Hamas government, disband and destroy all terrorist organizations and munitions factories, and perhaps try anyone involved in firing rockets at civilian targets as a war criminal and hang them publicly in Gaza City.

            What is clear, however, is that Gaza is not currently free and sovereign, and they can legitimately claim that they are under Israeli occupation, though perhaps it can be said that they’ve brought this upon themselves.

          • John Kinory

            Tough. You know what, we impertinent Joos will no longer turn the other cheek when we are constantly being picked on by self-important bullies. You’ll just have to live with it.
            You are the one who made the mendacious claim that “Gazans are restricted from leaving or entering by … air”. They can fly out via Egypt, or if they can’t then they should take it up with Egypt.
            A naval blockade of a violent belligerent neighbour is NOT ‘occupation’, and this mendacious term has never been applied to any other naval blockade in history. You are using it because once again you are making a special case of Jews. We will continue calling you on this bigoted attitude.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            Your suggestion that Gazans fly out [or in] via Egypt is laughable. But if you’re going to make it, you might as well note that they can leave or enter by sea via Egypt as well. Since Egypt no longer claims Gaza as its territory (in fact, it never did, though it controlled it up to 1967) they are under no more obligation than anyone else to allow Gazans through their country. Thus, my claim is not mendacious in the least.

            As for the naval blockade of a violent neighbour, I was referring more to the fact that the original disengagement plan left Israel in control of Gaza’s seacoast and airspace, before ‘unoccupied’ Gaza fired a single shot. I don’t claim to be an expert in the intricacies of international law, nor have I read through the Geneva Conventions (have you?). But a bit of quick googling came up with the following.

            http://972mag.com/ceasefire-tells-the-world-gaza-still-under-israeli-occupation/60669/
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

            The claim is constantly repeated that Israel remains, even after the disengagement, according to the terms of the disengagement, an occupying power.

            I’d rather that you not tell me why I use or don’t use a given term or argument. I’d rather discuss the facts on their merit. But if we’re going to discuss Jews as a special case, it is worth noting that the Balfour Declaration was never signed by the Arabs, and the entire concept of a Jewish Homeland in any part of the Arab Middle East was always regarded by the Arabs as the British giving away that which was not theirs. The very creation of a State in which Arabs are not the demographic majority, by immigration in which the Arabs had no say, is a form of Apartheid, in that it turns the Arabs into a minority in their own land, regardless of how many or how equal rights they may enjoy.

            As such, the moral responsibility falls more heavily on the Israelis to work out a settlement that the Arabs can live with, though admittedly they have historically refused to live with much less than the whole pie.

          • John Kinory

            Laughable, eh? Your verbiage certainly is. You admit that Israel has no more obligations to allow anyone into its territory than Egypt does, and yet you still pour your bigoted bile on Israel, not on Egypt.
            The moment you said ‘apartheid’ you lost any claim to honesty and integrity, and outed yourself as standard-issue Jew-hater.

          • e. brrok

            Your definition of occupation is not exactly correct in this case. You may say Gaza is under military blockade by two countries but who is running the place. There is no military administration or law enforcement by Israelis in place so there is no effective control over the territory of Gaza by Israel. We all know the reason of the blockade which even been sanctioned and justified by the UN. Gaza is not free but it is neither occupied and again there is a name for its current legal status which is called it is under blockade.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            John Kinory has raised a similar point. I point you to my reply, particularly to the links. Check the references in the Wikipedia articles. Apparently, the Red Cross still defines the Israeli presence as occupation.

            Note that a naval blockade would usually be enforced outside the opponent’s territorial waters, whereas here the Israelis maintain control of Gaza’s territorial waters and airspace. Occupation does not exist only on land.

            Whether the blockade is sanctioned or justified is not all that relevant, as occupation can be sanctioned and justified too. The Security Council of the U.N. includes the four countries that occupied their defeated opponents at the end of WW II. But an Occupying Power has certain responsibilities under the Laws of Civilized War, as codified in the Geneva Conventions, as well as the more general responsibility to eventually end the occupation and allow the occupied people the universal human right of self-determination, when military conditions allow. An intent to continue the occupation indefinitely is essentially an illegal conquest of another people.

            Is Israel prepared to negotiate a comprehensive peace with Hamas in return for an end to all rocket fire?

          • e. brrok

            No one lives in waters and no one lives in the air or do they. I have read the Wikipedia and I have quoted you from it. There is no military administration or law enforcement by Israelis in place so there is no effective control over the territory of Gaza by Israel. You want to put the Israelis in Gaza but they are not or are they? If they are not then they cannot be occupying it, As per Wikip. A blockade is an effort to cut off food, supplies, war material or communications from a particular area by force, either in part or totally, by sea land and air. This is exactly what Israel is doing with the help of Egyptians. You like the word Occupation because it is charged and because you like Israel to take responsibility for Gaza far beyond it is reasonably acceptable by a terrorized nation and obviously you like to use it as a political stick. I am surprised by your naivety regarding Comprehensive peace with Hamas. Why don’t you try asking Hamas to change their barbaric charter and their genocidal aims given a chance of killing all the Jews whether they want peace. In addition we both agree that Israel could if they wanted to re occupy Gaza at a cost of thousands killed from both sides and get rid off the murderous Hamas gangsters. You seem to be suggesting as Israelis having decided not to follow Assad and his army’s model of flattening residential areas and apply it to that of Gaza has subsequently makes them an occupier of Gaza. I find your logic very twisted. Gaza can come out of its blockade when their leaders decide they no longer want to use their recently acquired freedom to use Gaza as a launching pad to Arm themselves and fire rockets at civilians across the border. The blockade is a price the Hamas government seems to be happy to pay for their few rockets and Israeli blockade is the least expensive tool in terms of human life they can use to contain the situation for the time being.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            It is the International Committee of the Red Cross that has used the term Occupation. Go fight it out with them. They applied it to the situation *before* the blockade, before Hamas won the elections, before they fired any rockets. (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/paul-mccann-the-worlds-largest-prison-camp-503036.html )

            Hamas’ charter is not an international document. North Korea’s communist party could sign a charter committing to destroy America, but that wouldn’t give the Americans an excuse to occupy their country. Of course, the situation with Hamas is slightly different, in that they have carried out attacks against Israel, and are a part of the wider Arab-Israeli conflict.

            The question remains, though, if the Palestinians of Gaza were to install a different government, say along the lines of Fatah, which is what existed at the time of the Israeli disengagement, would Israel be willing to end the occupation to the satisfaction of the Red Cross and the UN?

          • e. brrok

            I read your article which you are referring to it is 10 years old. Parts of the article is already not valid any longer such as claiming Israel intends to remain in the Philadelphia coridor which in fact did not materialized, as a consequent the article does not mentions Egypt at all which is also controlling a border. According to your logic Egypt which is also blockading Gaza is also an occupiers.
            However the article was only referring to ICRC where in subsequent years by its own admission the clear meaning of Occupation by foreign forces was not clarified up until 2012 ie 7 years later, on occupation on the ICRC website and i quote,

            “the notion of effective control over a foreign territory, which underpins the definition of occupation set out in Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907.

            The presence of foreign forces: this criterion was considered to be the only way to establish and exert firm control over a foreign territory. It was identified as a prerequisite for the establishment of an occupation, notably because it makes the link between the notion of effective control and the ability to fulfil the obligations incumbent upon the occupying power. It was also agreed that occupation could not be established or maintained solely through the exercise of power from beyond the boundaries of the occupied territory; a certain number of foreign “boots on the ground” were required.

            This is quite clearly applies to Israel , no boots on the ground and control only from the boundaries. By ICRC definition Israel cannot be occupying Gaza and are no longer occupiers period. People like you on the left who continuously accusing Israel of occupying Gaza are only using it for dramatization misinformation and basically lying to the public.

            Regarding the Hamas Charter which clearly states killing and mass murder of the Jews as its aim, now you are stating that we should ignore it, you must be living in a cookoo land. Jews have learnt through their oppressed history that if you say it and then write it and then act upon it then you obviously mean it. Hamas gangsters and Islamic killers are ruling Gaza they have weapons supplied to them by another criminal regime, Iran , If you are expecting Israelis don’t take Hamas Charter seriously because it is not an International document as you are stating, all I can say you are blinded by your abhorrent leftist views which i can never ever argue with.

            I now conclude by discussion with you and will not reply any further comments on this topic.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            But HD’s question was, Should Israel negotiate if a different administration were in place in Gaza? I don’t care whether it’s technically an occupation – the situation is abnormal and unstable, and Israel might have an interest in ending it.

          • e. brrok

            When the administration is Gaza stops shooting rockets and stop being belligerent and hostile Israel will not require any longer to blockade the strip, unfortunately Situation is abnormal and it is not on Israel door you should be knocking. It is the Arab and Islamic intransigent which is really to be blamed in here.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The dispute existed before rockets and blockades. I don’t care who is to blame – even if Israel is blameless, it is a party to the conflict, whether it likes it or not.

          • e. brrok

            I don’t recall ever Israelis refused to negotiate an end to hostilities. They have the least to loose and the most to gain. However you need to have some respect towards people you are going to sit down with and negotiate with, if your opposite side does not even recognize that you exist as an entity then what is there to negotiate about your total capitulation and surrender. Unfortunately Hamas is a neo Nazi organisation established by Moslem Brotherhood of Egypt they are not going to be the people who one day will make peace with Israel whether we like it or not it is a fact.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Neo-nazi is the sort of swear-word thrown around about the Israelis by their opponents. Once you’ve labelled someone, it absolves you of the need to find out what they ‘really’ are. Hamas is a late arrival in Palestinian affairs; there were prospects for peace before Hamas. Does Israel need to negotiate with Hamas at all? There are steps that both sides could take without actually talking to each other (e.g. Hamas could stop firing rockets with no loss of face).

          • e. brrok

            I am not labeling Hamas i am stating the facts. If you cannot learn from the history in the past, history
            has a habit of repeating itself, the idea that the nazis had and the moslem Hamas has is to demonize the Jews, many Germans fell for it why should not the moslems fall for it now, Arab children are being taught that jews are inheritly not humans born from monkeys and pigs, perfectly alright to kill them and radical moslems have learnt from the Nazis how to indoctorine the youth.

            Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928 by a 22-year old Muslim named Hassan al-Banna, who admired Adolf Hitler’s hatred of the Jews
            and persistently wrote to Hitler to express his admiration for Hitler, as well as his desire for collaboration with Hitler’s Nazi Party. When Hitler rose to power Mofti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al Husseini and Adolf Hitler, supported al-Banna, a school teacher, who grew the Muslim Brotherhood into Hitler’s ally in the Middle East; by 1940, the membership of Muslim Brotherhood topped 450,000. During World War II, members of the Muslim Brotherhood spied for Hitler’s Nazis in the Middle East and fought for Hitler as Nazi troops in two specially formed
            Muslim Waffen-SS Handschar Divisions (‘Handschar’ is German for scimitar, the curved saber used by the Muslim troops of the Ottoman empire). Due to the large
            number of Muslim volunteers, the Handschar Divisions were the largest of Hitler’s 38 Waffen-SS divisions.

            After World War II, the Muslim Brotherhood continued to grow, supported this time by the West, which saw it as a counterweight to the threat of Soviet-backed communism in the Middle East. In 1987, Muslim Brotherhood in Israel created Hamas, whose members still use the Nazi salute and read Hitler’s Mein Kampf, which the Muslim
            Brotherhood titled, My Jihad, and translated into Arabic in the 1930s (Mein Kampf remains the best-seller today in the Muslim world and a favorite among the members of Muslim Brotherhood). Article XI in Hamas’ Charter, basically stating that the sole purpose of the organization is to exterminate Jews from the face of the earth and, of course, to annihilate the state of Israel. That’s
            why Hamas has been terrorizing Israel and killing its innocent civilians for years, perpetrating suicide attacks and firing rockets consistently at the Jewish nation since 2001. Hamas therefore is a neo Nazi organization it is not just labeling them but it is a fact, we therefore know what Hamas stands for very clearly. Whether Hamas and Israelis talk to each other or come to some sort of agreement is not in our remit to discuss, but one needs to talk to ones enemy in what shape this discussions will take place no one knows.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Whatever the history of Hamas, your claim about extermination in article XI is simply wrong; I’ve just looked it up. The charter is a curious document; it reproduces the verse in the Koran with the talking trees that say, ‘Here is a Jew!’ The charter also calls Jews the merchants of war. And, yes, it says the Jews are nazis, ho hum. An organisation that calls its enemy the nazis plainly does not see itself that way. And as I noted before, calling someone a nazi is just a swear-word that stops you from finding out what the organisation is really like. You will agree, I think, that there are Palestinian terror groups that attack Israel with no plausible link to the Muslim Brotherhood, etc; a Palestinian does not have to be a nazi to find an excuse to kill Israelis.

            The problem with the kind of pedigree you’ve given (from the 1930s) is that all political movements come from somewhere, and it’s always possible to find that (say) Tony Blair has a link to Stalinist terror, or that Vaclav Havel admired Pinochet. Even Jewish organisations flirted with fascism in the 30s. This does not mean that the sole content of their ideology or actions was fascist.

          • e. brrok

            You missed very important parts of that article which it seems
            very convenient let me write it here for you, “The Last Hour would not come
            until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and
            until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a
            tree would say…” I know this comes from Hadith
            but it is part of the charter or is it not, shall we just ignore it? Stating
            they only have it in their charter as a desperation to find a religious justification
            for their extreme Ideology also does not really mitigate the virulent anti-Semitic
            nature of the Charter.

            To be honest I find Hamas charter is a virulent anti-Semitic
            piece of trash if I may say so impart with the worst anti-Semitic documents
            such as mine Kamp of Hitler. If I was
            living in Israel and had a neighbour like these lot on my doorstep I will be
            really worried wouldn’t you. It now make sense when Israelis constantly
            emphasis Security Issues, they are Just trying to save their skin. Hamas could
            be a liberation front of some sort in your world view but it is a racist
            extreme Islamic type. The left and moderate Moslems should not Condon its
            actions or violent policies. They have nothing to contribute to the region or
            to Palestinians and their policies will just prolong the conflict. With regards
            to their pedigree again you are attempting to minimize Hamas’s Nazi roots which
            are much more deeper than examples you gave about tony Blair and others, there
            is really no comparison. If something Quacks like a Duck, walks like a Duck it
            must be a Duck. Jews were the main victims of Fascism so your suggestion that
            they had something to do with its establishment I do not find acceptable.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I don’t claim that Jews helped to establish fascism; but it’s a plain fact that all kinds of nationalists in the 1930s, including Jewish, Irish, Balkan, Arab and Indian nationalists, flirted with fascism and made contact with either Hitler or Mussolini. The political descendants of these Jewish activists are still at work in Israel today, just as the descendants of the Italian and Bosnian and Indian fascists also occupy influential positions in their respective countries. It would be absurd to call them nazis, just because they are members of organisations that have evolved from other groups in the 30s.

            There is nothing distinctively nazi about the Hamas Charter; it does not claim, for example, that Jews are morally or racially inferior. It recycles the absurd idea that Jews infiltrate organisations like the masons, and it seems to take a view that Jews somehow polluted Jerusalem by occupying it after 1967. These are conventional antisemitic slurs but not, in my view, a fascist manifesto. It’s a straightforward argument about territorial rights. Both sides have taken a majoritarian view of the territory – that it should be predominantly Jewish or Arab.

            The popularity of Hamas in Gaza stems less from the Charter, and more from the efficiency of Hamas in organising social welfare (which the PLO neglected).

          • e. brrok

            Hamas may not manifest all aspects of classical Nazism and fascism
            as they do not have as yet a true government, however they are great admirers
            of that system and they have gone a long way towards it. If you look at their propaganda
            materials you will find many examples of them dehumanising the Jews especially
            with their children’s education, for example they compare the Jews to aps and monkeys.
            I do not see any parallel comparison between the victims of Nazism the jews and
            collaborators with it Moslem Brotherhood, and again I see you are trying to justify
            and minimize the involvement of the Moslem Brother hood and involvement of al Bana
            in establishing it, because you are saying it is nothing as many people fraternized
            with Hitler even the Jews. Him and Al Hussaini where heavily involved in
            persecution of the Jews in the middle east and other places during the war time.
            Al Hussaini instigated a pogrom in Baghdad in 1942 where 800 jews were
            massacred. Yasser Arafat was his nephew which he himself promoted. He was
            convicted as a war criminal in France and got away only because of the British
            Political considerations. Which Israeli politician was a fascist and
            collaborated in the murder of his fellow jews you may know something that I don’t.
            I am not going to read the whole of Hamas Charter but of what I have read it is
            heavily anti-Semitic. It is also very racist as it claims the whole land for
            the Moslems exclusively, they want a Judien Frei land from the sea to the river
            and how do you think they will achieve it by asking the jews out of the country.
            Add to this their admiration of Hitler and Nazism their pedigree and founders, then you can say these people are some sort of
            an Islamic manifestation of neo Nazism even though they don’t have its full
            characteristics.

            US and EU consider Hamas as a terrorist organization, they
            deny any claims that the jews may have on the land they deny the existence of
            the State of Israel.

          • e. brrok

            Hamas may not manifest all aspects of classical Nazism and
            fascism as they do not have as yet a true government, however they are great
            admirers of that system and they have gone a long way towards it. If you look
            at their propaganda materials you will find many examples of them dehumanising
            the Jews especially with their children’s education, for example they compare
            the Jews to aps and monkeys. I do not see any parallel comparison between the
            victims of Nazism the jews and collaborators with it Moslem Brotherhood, and
            again I see you are trying to justify and minimize the involvement of the
            Moslem Brother hood and involvement of al Bana in establishing it, because you
            are saying it is nothing as many people fraternized with Hitler even the Jews.
            Him and Al Hussaini where heavily involved in persecution of the Jews in the
            middle east and other places during the war time. Al Hussaini instigated a
            pogrom in Baghdad in 1942 where 800 jews were massacred. Yasser Arafat was his
            nephew which he himself promoted. He was convicted as a war criminal in France
            and got away only because of the British Political considerations. Which
            Israeli politician was a fascist and collaborated in the murder of his fellow
            jews you may know something that I don’t. I am not going to read the whole of
            Hamas Charter but of what I have read it is heavily anti-Semitic. It is also
            very racist as it claims the whole land for the Moslems exclusively, they want
            a Judien Frei land from the sea to the river and how do you think they will
            achieve it by asking the jews out of the country. Add to this their admiration
            of Hitler and Nazism their pedigree and founders, then you can say these people are some sort
            of an Islamic manifestation of neo Nazism even though they don’t have its full
            characteristics.

            US and EU consider Hamas as a terrorist organization, they
            deny any claims that the jews may have on the land they deny the existence of
            the State of Israel.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            Since e. brrok has concluded the discussion, I’ll share my thoughts with myself. Some food for thought: http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-legal-scholar-details-icrc-bias.html#.UyrJvH23O9M

            Of course, the Israeli side gets the last word, but it does at least clarify to some extent what’s going on. Note that Professor Bell does not address Israeli control of Gaza’s airspace and coastline.

          • e. brrok

            You are seeing a very small piece of the jigsaw and concluding what you are. In truth its the Israelis who are the under dogs in this case, and why the problem is perpetuating is that the Arabs know it, they say if they can carry on a bit longer just a bit more the Israelis will give up so why should they make peace. Why dont you try to deliver some humanitarian aid in Syria, i bet they need it more than Hamas, and i bet with you if you try you get more than a beating. You are a hypocrite because as you know and I know very well there is no humanitarian situation in Gaza, also you are comparing the Army of a small nation whose main aim is the defense of its civilian to terrorist gangs such as Hamas and Hazbollah whose main aim is to attack civilians. You and people like you on the left of the spectrum should stop travelling in the Islamic states and should try to get a Job and contribute to your own country instead of causing mayhem in other peoples countries.

          • geronimoooo4

            a country the size of wales with 7 Mio people, surrounded by over 30 Muslim countries with over 1 billion people

            yeah, poor arabs….LOL

          • John Kinory

            Ah yes, the usual brainless, 100% ignorant bollocks about ‘illegal’ settlements on ‘Palestinian land'(TM).

          • Alexbensky

            Again, harmlessdrudge, a failure of facts. If the Arabs had accepted the UN’s partition plan in 1947, the consensus of scholarly opinion is that the total number of displaced Arabs would have been: None. Every square inch of land occupied by Jews before the 1948 war was either wasteland or paid for.

            Benny Morris’s book on that war is a good place to start if you want to learn something about this, and he hardly whitewashes Israel, which like every army in every war, sometimes did stuff it didn’t want to write home about. There were isolated local instances of populations being forced off and told to go a few miles to the Arab territory, but by no means a coordinated plan. I also recommend Efraim Karsh’s “Palestine Betrayed.” You don’t have to like his conclusions but I haven’t seen anyone successfully attack his sources; the main reason for Arab flight (they did not think of themselves as “Palestinians” except as an expression of residency) was the urgings of their leaders and a general collapse of their communities.

            The sea blockade of Gaza even the UN recognizes as legitimate. It doesn’t prevent ships from unloading cargo; the Israelis inspect and pass almost everything. Hundreds of tons of material cross by land into Gaza every day, where a second luxury shopping mall was recently opened. And of course, Israel has no control over the border between Gaza and Egypt; the Egyptians often do impose a blockade and I hear no one upset about that.

            Even during the two recent operations Israel continued to supply unpaid for electricity and tons of goods moved across the border into Gaza every day.

            But yeah. People oppose Israel for alleged crimes that other countries do more of by orders of magnitude. I don’t notice any university investment funds over here even being asked to divest from Saudi Arabian interests. So why is Israel singled out for what others do much, much more of? If it’s not anti-Semitism, got any idea?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            ‘If not antisemitism’…what do you think of Brenda O’Neill’s argument that it’s western pessimism about progress? This strikes me as far more plausible. None of the Israel critics I know is an antisemite – but all of them to some extent are suspicious of modern life, national borders, notions of prosperity.

          • ROBERT BROWN

            Read my post above to see what i think of morons like you….you are a gullible imbecile, with no idea of the history of that region at all….you are one of the indoctrinated.

      • bwims

        Have you read the history behind what you deem “despicable behaviour”? When are you going to protest the much worse behaviour carried out by the Chinese, N Koreans, and all of the Arab states?

      • Rocksy

        When do we start ‘expecting better’ from the primitive, corrupt and violent religion of peace countries?

        • harmlessdrudge

          That’s a good question. I have traveled reasonably widely in Islamic countries. My experiences as a traveler have always been of courtesy, kindness and humanity (and the greatest of all in the poorest of all — in Sudan) — enough to give me a very different insight to what I might have if I relied on television, which can be a great amplifier of hatred.

          I was not remotely attracted to Islam, aspects of which are barbarous. However, I would prefer — and I also think it is more realistic — to see it reform by adherents being attracted to the better western values.

          I have spent some time in Iran and found that young people there were highly westernised and hated their own government. Nothing would unite the country and put the clock back on any rapprochement with the west faster than an Israeli attack on the country. It would be an act of monumental folly. And to justify it because of eliminationist rhetoric from cavemen, given the actual power imbalance, just perpetuates the problem by descending to their “primitive” level. One loses any entitlement to use the term.

          There is no question who has the most power and who therefore has the honey and who has the vinegar.

          Just because most Islamic countries are basket cases doesn’t mean the Palestinians can be or should be treated unjustly, and they have been, which is why they have resisted and will continue to do so.

          • Rocksy

            It is a mistake to translate hatred of their own governments and being ‘westernised’ into an admiration for western values. Clearly they admire mostly western material richness and less so the democracy of western society.
            What they wish for is a country which allows them to be free to do as they wish but they don’t see extending that freedom to women or minorities and certainly not to Jews. In the UK and other western countries, accommodation is constantly being demanded to allow them to avoid mixing with women and Jews.
            When they live in western countries, they are not living by Islamic principles but by Judeo Christian values.
            As for ‘rapprochement’, it is a concept they are incapable of grasping. They see it as weakness and are happy to exploit it. Israel seems to be the only country which understand that they appreciate strength. If every western country stood up to them, we would have peace within the year.

          • harmlessdrudge

            Iran was highly westernised before the revolution and it will be after the next one; whether it is quick or gradual, I believe it’s inevitable. Yes, it’s having an intolerant period. Many societies have gone through them when they have been threatened or subject to external interference, as Iran was (no, I am not blaming Israel; the US and UK were culpable).

            In my experience Iranians valued the freedom of western countries, not their wealth. I agree that the treatment of women in Iran is abominable, but it’s not all bad (nothing like Saudi e.g.). Most western women would prefer to be a woman in Iran than in Gaza or a Palestinian of either gender in any place controlled by Israel.

            If every country stood up to Israel, including the US, we would have peace in a year. How does that sound to you? Reasonable? See any contradiction?

          • global city

            The old saying, ‘if the Arabs laid down their weapons there would be peace, but if the Jews laid down their arms there would be a genocide’ still holds true.

          • Rocksy

            The intolerant period of all Islamic countries has lasted for 1300 years. ……..’the treatment of women in Iran is abominable, but it’s not all bad’

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            ‘…intolerance lasted for 1300 years.’

            Well, that briskly sums up all we need to know about a vast swathe of North Africa, the middle east, Central Asia and India. Intolerance arrived and we’re still living with it. One wonders what all those historians, archaeologists, linguists, literary critics, theologians and translators are wasting their time for. It’s like saying that Europe can be summed up by Charlemagne and Hitler.

          • Lamia

            If every country stood up to Israel, including the US, we would have peace in a year. How does that sound to you?

            Considering the way Arabs treat each other, especially their own minorities and vulnerable social groups, it sounds like nonsense and a pitiful scapegoating of israel.

          • Bobloblaw67

            Actually it would encourage more violence towards Israel and Jews by legitimizing it.

          • geronimoooo4

            ah yes!
            without Israel, Muslims would be skipping around the world handing each other flowers, instead of killing each other and everybody else in sight…

            Arabs can not even live peacefully in their own countries, amongst themselves, under their own laws – they show it every day – without a single jew in sight!

          • cityca

            How does it sound to me? Ludicrous, naive beyond belief. We would not have peace in a year – we might have a charred, blackened and destroyed country and many millions of dead.

            Your entire thesis is utterly wrong. Israel has law and morality behind it. It was created by agreement of the UN and it has barely expanded beyond the 1948 ceasefire lines and then only because of yet another imposed war in 1967.

            Your entire argument is baseless. Palestinians have 3 main problems – their leadership, the Arab League and their tribal nature. Their leaders are corrupt and cowardly, so will not/cannot make peace with Israel; the Arab League has in place policy that prevents any Arab state providing land, citizenship or meaningful employment to ANY Palestinian, and their tribal nature means that they cannot understand or undertake a democratic process, the strongest will always keep down the rest.

            Israel has to deal with this. It does it humanely, reasonably and with a restraint unknown anywhere in the world, yet ignorant odious cannot see this and propose the kind of utopian project that will never happen, because Arab oil money and Islamic constituents in western states, put pressure on the west to treat the Palestinains far better than their brother Arabs do, and demand that Israel folds up its tents and moves away.

            It won’t happen and you and your blinkered friends need to wake up – Israel is not the problem.

          • John Kinory

            “If every country stood up to Israel” – yes, stood up to those all-powerful Jooos who control the world.
            Is your favourite book Mein Kampf, or the Protocols?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Eh? All who stand up to Israel must be antisemites?

            Are all those who stand up to Iran islamophobes?

          • Freda Bothwell

            Yes, probably!

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The US does stand up to Israel – at any rate, Israel feels undermined and betrayed by an America that is nowadays far from an unconditional supporter. For many years, Israel has stopped caring what the rest of the world thinks. If I am right, then the views of America don’t matter one way or another for peace. And it must have occurred to you that the leaders of Israel and Palestine have every interest in keeping the conflict going,however exasperated their citizens become. For both sides, identity and raison d’etre are powerfully tied up with notions of struggle.

          • global city

            You must remember that Iranians are not Arabs… as a society and culture the place has always been much more sophisticated. They are currently enduring the curse of religious nuts, whilst all Arabs have historically been fully immersed in the ROP excess and backward tribal norms.

          • Rocksy

            Sophistication is not democracy. Whatever they are enduring , they brought it upon themselves.
            ‘Every nation gets the government it deserves.’
            Joseph de Maistre

          • global city

            Joe was being a bit glib there!
            Iranian society is not based on tribalism, nor nomadic habits, that help to compound the more base rules of Islam. Ask any Persian you may meet what they feel are the main characteristics of their society (as opposed to the current regime)?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            What would they say?

            I know many Iraqis who have notions of courtesy and civilised behaviour that sit very oddly with the mayhem on the streets of Baghdad. Iraq is not defined or characterised by the sunni and shia hotheads that are blowing each other up.

            As for the rules of Islam, they’re very simple: for most muslims there’s little more observance than for most Christians and Jews – a few fasts, a few feasts, the odd prayer, some residual food laws, paying a tax to support widows and orphans. Many never go inside a mosque, or know more than a few lines of the koran.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I don’t know where to start with this. It would be like saying that Italy is a basket case that never contributed anything to European civilisation. As for ‘always…’ recall that Iran was ruled at times by Mongols, Tamburlane and Assassins.

          • global city

            I don’t know what you think you have deduced from my post there. They are basket cases who have ‘always’ done something or other.

            Perhaps you should read my post?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            What I read was that ‘Arabs’ (all of them, in all times and places; but not Iranians, who are different) have always been backward and fanatical and tribal. Is this not what you meant?

          • global city

            Clearly not, if you know the history and myth of the Saudi area

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            How many western people consciously admire western values? I think if you asked the average Brit or Italian or Pole about freedom of speech, minority rights, trade unions etc, most would be diffident at best. Western values might give us something to chatter about, but I really don’t think they’re cherished by the population at large. Criticising (say) Syrians for not buying into the whole package resembles the double standard applied to Israel. It’s as if we can only support Muslims fighting for fair elections, clean government, women’s rights, minority rights, and freedom of assembly (in Egypt, Turkey, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabla among other places) if they sign up fully to a list of EU preoccupations. Politically and culturally, the middle east is more advanced than we’re giving it credit for.

          • Rocksy

            If you mean that Western values aren’t the topic of everyday conversation, I agree. This proves the point I’m trying to make I don’t think about forks much but I know how difficult it would be to eat without one and I can do this in an abstract way. I don’t have to be eating to realise that a fork is necessary.
            I don’t expect anyone to sign up to our values, I believe strongly in not interfering in their struggle. I believe that they will only be democratic when they are left to figure it out for themselves.
            I believe the Western countries should make it clear that we will not be involved in their struggles. We make it worse when we lead them to hope for our support even if only verbal. We should wish each state well and leave them to get on with it.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Agreed. Democracy has only once been imposed successfully, and Japan is a rather odd example of it.

            As for abstract values…I think we forget how notional some of them are, when we’re urging them onto the rest of the world. Freedom is always relative, and most people probably don’t even notice when a bit of it gets cancelled.

          • Lamia

            There is no question who has the most power

            That doesn’t make the one with most power the villain. One of the reasons Arab countries don’t have much power is because they impede their own progress by adhering to reactionary and self-harming ideologies. That’s not Israel’s fault, it’s their own.

          • John Kinory

            It’s the halfwitted English paradigm that if you hurt your attacker, he becomes the ‘underdog’ and you should be prosecuted.

          • Inessa

            The Palestinian president said he has rejected a conditional Israeli offer to let Palestinian refugees in war-torn Syria resettle in the West Bank and Gaza, charging it would compromise their claims to return to lost homes in Israel.

            Abbas said he asked U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon last month to seek Israeli permission to bring Palestinians caught in Syria’s civil war to the Palestinian territories. The request came after fighting between Syrian troops and rebel fighters in Yarmouk, the largest Palestinian refugee camp in Syria. About half of the camp’s 150,000 residents have fled, according to a U.N. aid agency.

            Abbas told a group of Egyptian journalists in Cairo late Wednesday that Ban contacted Israel on his behalf.

            Abbas said Ban was told Israel “agreed to the return of those refugees to Gaza and the West Bank, but on condition that each refugee … sign a statement that he doesn’t have the right of return (to Israel).”

            “So we rejected that and said it’s better they die in Syria than give up their right of return,” Abbas told the group. Some of his comments were published Thursday by the Palestinian news website Sama.

            This was printed early March. Abbas (elected leader….sort of) decided on behalf of his own Palestinian people that thousands should die rather than be given refuge in palestenian land over which he presides, if it means denying any Palestenians the right to over-run Israel. Do you still believe a cohesive argument is to be had?

          • e. brrok

            I spent time in these countries too, most of the time I had to hide being a Jew. Most revealing is their deep sense of antisemitism specially in Iran.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I had a different experience. Iranians were so positive about Jews that it almost felt as if Jews were being made special objects of admiration. After Israel, Iran is the most Jewish country in the middle east. One sticking point was the holocaust; a Tehran architect who had studied in Vienna told me that, after some study and years of discussion, he had reached the conclusion that some Jews had indeed been persecuted in Europe during the 30s…

      • allymax bruce

        “The article is just a bit of red meat thrown for amusement. The rubric is transference: pass the self-hating jew meme around, shriek holocaust denial and anti-semitism the moment Israel is criticised.”
        Quite!
        However, there is another ‘muse’; Passover is coming up, and my Rabbi always taught me that nothing is done by Israel without the blessing at Passover. Take from that what you want; it could mean anything from a revision of beliefs, to a unilateral strike.

        • harmlessdrudge

          Indeed. People of many denominations conduct religious services before entering into slaughter. I haven’t come across any doing so before agreeing painful compromises but I suppose it must have happened somewhere, sometime. I agree about the premise. “Hate” is exaggerating weary antipathy to perceived injustice — with very little doubt about which is the stronger side imposing its will.

          I haven’t previously commented on anything to do with Israel online, anywhere. It’s been an eye-opener to see some of the responses.

          In any case I tried to answer your question: the author was being deliberately provocative by accusing people of themselves suffering from an affliction that has been thrown at Jews by other Jews often enough (self-hatred; which often means simply daring to have a different view). Transference is a useful exercise sometimes. It would be good for all concerned if people on opposing sides could change places for a while.

          I came across a commendable initiative some years ago where planeloads of young muslim students from London were being taken to Yad Vashem. Haven’t come across any reciprocal efforts (not saying they haven’t happened, just haven’t come across them).

          • allymax bruce

            Thank you for your reply; nice to be able to discuss political dissonance, by different political regimes, in a sensible & balanced way. My whole thing is Political Theory, and how the ‘tools’ used, (Vygotsky), affects the ‘work-done’ (Bion); and articles like this, from journos like O’Neill, makes the ‘political arena’ a difficult place to allow Transference to exist. In-deed, I would happy to state ‘here & now’, articles like this by O’Neill does no good whatsoever.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I’d be surprised if O’Neill has any time to read the replies, and given his well-known attachment to free and even offensive speech, it would be out of character for him to censor you.

            His article starts from the Israeli perception that westerners hate them out of antisemitism; and concludes by locating hostility to Israel in western loss of confidence and optimism. I think there might be something in this. However, I would have gone further, to state that Israel itself has given up hope of progress, and that its self-identity is now bound up overwhelmingly with ideas of the enemy within, as well as hostile encirclement (which both serve as excuses for Israeli stasis).

          • allymax bruce

            Seems my account has been switched back on; I wonder who, (with all their super-intensive propaganda computer technology/trolls), ‘switched’ it off ??????
            O’Neill is an eejit; at at time of heightened ‘awareness’ in world politics, O’Neill goes and attempts a pre-emptive excuse for the Zionist Israel government unilaterally, and illegally, to act against the settled-will of world politics, the United Nations, Middle-East agreements, and the World economy! I think O’Neill knew perfectly well what he was doing! Israel will get no ‘pass’ to unilaterally strike anyone; there will be severe ‘like-for-like’ repercussions by at least 3 of the UN Permanent Security Council Nations. And, if you believe it’s the Palestinians firing those rockets over the Israel borders into Israel itself, you’re more stupid than I thought. As for your ‘interpretation of this article; bolllocks; there’s no bigger anti-semtitics than the Zionist Israel gov’; look how they force the Orthodox Jews to conscript against their beliefs! Palestinians born in Israel have 20% of the Rights that Israel-born Jews have. You are only another apologist for Zionist Israel gov’ to throw its toys out of its pram; and, we’re all sick of it.
            We’re all sick of ‘you have to have some Jewishness’ to get into Hollywood; (and their films are sh!te). We’re sick of all the magazines, newspapers, tv stations, absolutely all the media in the Western world being owned and used by Zionists for their own propaganda purposes. We’re all sick of these Zionists manipulating our governments; you got your own country, why are you still bothering the rest of the world? We’re all sick of ‘ah-well, if you’re not Jewish, then you don’t understand’. We’re all sick of the new generation of Zionists that strop-around other Nations of the world, filling all their ‘own-type’ in all the top jobs; in USA, ‘Britian’, EU, IMF, Worldbank, all Zionists! What’s with that then? Coincidence? No.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Come off it, O’Neill isn’t so vain as to think his article will have any influence on world opinion.

            As for the will of the UN….the UN has made bad decisions before, including some you disagree with.

            I wrote nothing about pre-emptive strikes or Palestinians or apologias for Israel, and I don’t know why you’re wandering off-topic (or presuming to know what I think about these matters)

            My interpretation of the article is exactly what O’Neill has written; the Israeli state thinks the world is against it. We are being invited to ask if this is true, and if so, why? It seems undeniable to me that Israel has its critics. I don’t believe they are all, or even mostly, antisemitic. O’Neill’s interesting suggestion that they are pessimists about modernity has not received any attention on this page, and it seems clear that few contributors are reading his article (just using its publication as a pretext to sound off, whichever side of the argument they’re on).

          • allymax bruce

            Your interpretation, of what O’Neill has written, are two different things. There’s no ‘off-topic’ issues for the way Brendan has contexualised his article; he complains, in-stead, for the State of Israel, why they are ‘hated’. I can’t find anybody on this thread that says they ‘hate’ Israel; not one! Even though Israel’s gov’ have been pisssing everybody off. So, why would Brendan lead with such an Imposition argument? Because he’s deflecting the blatant scurriless behaviours & issues that surround the Zionist gov’ of Israel; as such, no ‘off-topic’ issues. I actually feel sorry for the Israel people; I feel sorry for the Jews, having to put up with their minority Zionist gov’, of which, they had to form an agreement with another far-right Zionist party just to ‘maintain’ their power. I don’t think the gov’ Israel has right now, is the gov’ the people of Israel want; how can 1/3 of the votes cast represent the majority of the people?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I go back to O’Neill’s article. Israel thinks that the world is against it. Is Israel simply wrong? Whether it is or not, what is responsible for the perception? This is all we are being invited to consider. It is not an article promoting Israeli settlements in the west bank, israeli strikes, or anything else.

          • allymax bruce

            “It is not an article promoting Israeli settlements in the west bank, israeli strikes, or anything else.”
            Well, you must be reading the comments from another article then. So, why does Brendan ask his open question, if he doesn’t want all issues to be covered? Am I right in saying I’m not allowed to say/write the word ‘Zionism’? is this more ‘censoring’ from ‘obliged’-O’Neill in his article?
            Hey! You know what? Let’s have a look at what O’Neill does actually talk about; he talks about Millwall, Hate, Kippah-wearing guy at the wall, North Korea, Middle East, autocratic desert, United Nations, European Union, Muslim immigration, Israeli Defence Force, Hebrew branding, jihadist, Anti-Semitism, bigotry, blackmail, Anti-Zionism, Britain, France, Poland, EU, Israel’s militarism, Zionist project, (and to top it all off), ‘Westerners seem to find most nauseating is that Israel is cocky, confident and committed to preserving its national sovereign rights against all-comers. In short, it’s a lot like we used to be before relativism and anti-modernism. I think that Israel reminds us of our older selves,’. So, Jeffrey, where exactly does Brendan mention ‘Modernism’? He doesn’t. Mentioning ‘anti-modernism’ puts the article in a completely different context to talking about ‘Modernism’. Moreover, if O’Neill seems to think Israel is only doing what ‘we’, other nations did 200 years ago, then that definitely puts his article as Feudalistic, not Modern. Is O’Neill trying to convey we are being steered back to a Feudal future?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Where does he mention modernism? I was relying on the bit of text you identified yourself:

            ‘In short, [Israel is] a lot like we used to be before relativism and anti-modernism’

            I think he dates our retreat from modernism to the last few decades; pessimism, hostility to science, loss of sovereignty, an ideological kind of ‘diversity’, uncertainty about our role in the world. He claims that we look at Israel through this lens, and find it unpleasing. What appeals about this argument is that critics of Israel are not (in my experience) antisemites, and here is an alternative explanation for their standpoint.

            I cannot for the life of me connect this claim to a manifesto for Zionism, much less advocacy of bombs and strikes. O’Neill would not censor you for writing of zionism, even if he were the technical editor of this page (which he isn’t). There are several mentions of the word on this page already.

          • allymax bruce

            Jeffrey, this is what you wrote an hour ago; “My interpretation of the article is exactly what O’Neill has written; the Israeli state thinks the world is against it. We are being invited
            to ask if this is true, and if so, why? It seems undeniable to me that Israel has its critics. I don’t believe they are all, or even mostly, antisemitic. O’Neill’s interesting suggestion that they are pessimists about modernity” You mention ‘Modernity’, as an exclusive context, to the philosophical ideals of world politics at/in a Modern time/ideal.

            Now, on your other points; you say, “last few decades; pessimism, hostility to science, loss of sovereignty,
            an ideological kind of ‘diversity’, uncertainty about our role in the world. He claims that we look at Israel through this lens, and find it unpleasing.” … Ehh; Yeh! And what & who are to blame for these sentiments? The Financial Crash, engineered by the spivs & speculators; who actually got rich out of the ‘crash’, Jeffrey? A report out today by Oxfam states the ‘crash’ has engineered a situation where the top 5 richest in ‘Britian’, has more wealth than the poorest 20% of ‘Britian’s population. Goes on to say the world’s 85 richest are worth more than half the population of the total population on this planet! The political ideal for this is, what? Jeffrey? I’ll give you one guess.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I confess, I don’t know what you’re so angry about, or why you find my posts so objectionable. Those are indeed the words I wrote an hour ago. What exactly do you find wrong with them? Merely restating them, as if they’re self-evidently tosh, does not advance the discussion at all. You don’t seem willing to stick to the point : for instance, you appear to agree that we have become disenchanted with modernity, and then (as if this were a knock-down argument), you attribute this to the crash and speculators who’ve grown rich on the back of it. How does this affect O’Neill’s case in any way? If he had written that we find Israel too modern, and this is due in part to the crash, would this dissolve all your objections? Would you then agree that Israel somehow offends our sensibility because it still believes in progress? I suppose O’Neill must have written somewhere else about the reasons we’ve turned our backs on progress, but he can’t stuff all his thoughts into a single 1000-word article.

          • allymax bruce

            Jeffrey, I’m not angry; your interpretation on my little black letters, on a little white screen, bear no relation to what is, or isn’t. The thing about e-communication, is that it ‘lends’ itself to be perceived as the persona of the person typing; untrue! And, I don’t find your posts objectionable at all; in-deed, you’re one of the more intelligent commentors on this thread; and it’s nice to discuss this article from a debating position, rather than blind-denial and insult slinging. Furthermore, let’s skip past your inability to understand you introduced ‘Modernity’ into our debating discussions, because that’s what you interpreted O’Neill’s article to be premised on; and, I was merely stating your premise would have to be situated in Feudalism, not Modernity. Moving-on. Israel doesn’t offend me at all; I have immense admiration for the peoples of israel; it’s only the Zionist gov’ that is causing all the problems. But, not because it wants to ‘progress’. My point is that the way Israel’s Zionist gov’ has ‘projected’ their ‘progress’, has severe consequesnces for most, if not all in the world. I would say the state of Israel is conducting its Zionist project from a Postmodern ethos, where nothing is accountable to honest values, and nobody’s to blame for all the wanton killing in their zionist project; regardless of all the horrors incurred to Mankind/Planet.

          • John Kinory

            You have nil grasp of what the words Zionism and Zionist mean.

          • cityca

            When you say reciprocal, where is there a memorial to millions of Muslims killed by the Nazis?

    • Dahn Hiuni

      thanks! please tell the bbc

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Er…have you read the article? It must be obvious that O’Neill is criticising the anti-Israel brigade, and interested in Israeli perceptions of it

      • global city

        I read both the article AND the headline. He may not hate Israel, but he seems to be convinced that everyone… that is EVERYONE else does.

        That was the point of my post. I asserted that most people do not hate Israel. I pointed out that the hate voices are a tiny group of academics and assorted political shitehawks… so Israel does not have to concern itself as to ‘why everyone hates them’, as that just isn’t the case.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Nonetheless, Israel does concern itself (at least, if the article is right). Is it flinching at shadows?

  • harmlessdrudge

    What an appalling load of guff. Israel is disliked because

    It’s an apartheid state engaged in brutal, systematic ethnic cleansing and colonisation.

    It expects a pass on nuclear weapons and believes that is entitled to behave as it likes with impunity.

    Because of its openly manipulative machinations in US politics (“America is an easy thing to move”; the AIPAC lobby).

    Sure, the Jews were victims of the holocaust but they have been dishing out the abuse for a long time. How long is long enough? Or do they expect a free pass in perpetuity for behaviour that if it was inflicted on Jews would have them shrieking from the rooftops about anti-semitism?

    I don’t hate Israel. I support its right to exist. However, I do not approve of its behaviour.

    • geronimoooo4

      considering the weapons at Israel’s disposal, the non-stop violent provocations by Hamas, Hezbollah and PLO before that, and the timeline (between 6 and 7 decades), I’d say the Israelis are the worst “ethnic cleansers” on the planet! There are more Palestinians in the PA territories today than 6 decades ago!
      Not to mention the 1.5 Mio Arabs living inside Israel – how many jews are there in the West Bank? And not a single one in Gaza, speaking of Gaza: those lucky Christians over there….LOL – talk about ‘apartheid’.

      Besides, nobody does “ethnic cleansing” like the Arabs – they even ‘cleanse’ each other….

      Aaaaaanyway, you can throw away your mobile phone and computer now, in the spirit of Israel ‘boycott’. Good luck with your life relying on Palestinian inventions, bwahaha.

    • Nana bella

      Excuse me but “systematic ethnic cleansing”? Know what? When I allow myself to fantasize about things I would never do but it might be a release for a moment to fantasize about them, I think: Well, why don’t we really send all Palestinians to…..as people like you say we already did? – and lived happy ever after…. Somehow, though, harmlessdrudge, despite this intense “ethnic cleansing” we have exponentially growing numbers of Palestinians to deal with inside our country, outside our country, in ever growing circles all around the near abroad and far abroad, precisely because we do NOT and did not ethnically cleanse them. What a lie. How can you all believe in so much BS? You want to see ethnic cleansing? Look at Syria.

      • harmlessdrudge

        http://israeliapartheidguide.com/

        for a different perspective.

        • cityca

          Oh perfect – you give Ben White – the white haired aryan poster boy of modern day Judeophobic racism as your link. harmless – you’ve just destroyed every single argument of yours. Your credibility is zero.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Ben White is a journalist, and journos as a profession are handicapped by short attention spans and memory lapses. But aryan racist judeophobe? It is possible to disagree with his work without descending to name-calling.

        • geronimoooo4

          BEN WHITE????????

          LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

          i am so embarrassed for you
          by your posts it was clear that you’re not the brightest sock of the wash, but referencing BEN WHITE, is so ignorant, so desperate and so blatantly jew-bashing, that you don’t even deserve any serious answers to your questions, just limitless ridicule.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        It depends on what you mean by ethnic cleansing. The term was first used, as far as I know, in relation to Nagorno/Azerbaijan in the early 90s, and meant forced removals. I don’t think HD alleges that Israel attempted genocide against the Palestinians

        • Nana bella

          Some Palestinians left the land in 48 after losing an aggressive war they started. I would not call that “ethnic cleansing”

    • Michael Sager

      Your are just wrong. Period.
      1. Apartheid/ethnic cleansing? How come 20% of Israel are Arabs with full civil rights?
      2. Possessing atomic weapons is illegal? What law? What about the UK?
      3. Manipulating the US? That’s just paranoia and classic anti-semitic imagery. If so, how come the lobby failed to stop the US from negotiating with Iran?

      • harmlessdrudge

        Indeed, there as no holocaust in Europe. The whole thing was a PR move by the Jews. Just look at all the Jews still living in Europe.

        Right?

        If you read what I actually wrote I commented on Israeli aspirations to nuclear hegemony, and with it the right to behave with complete impunity. Israel has repeatedly attacked its neighbours, including Iran, for daring to acquire nuclear power. The attacks (including assassinations) constitute a violation of international law. Israel doesn’t give a damn about international law.

        The Jewish lobby in the US is disproportionately influential and openly and actively seeks to influence US foreign policy. This is simply a statement of fact and has been openly boasted of by the Israeli prime minister. There’s nothing remotely anti-semitic or paranoid in noticing what is very plainly obvious and rather widely acknowledged.

        I could add to the list of reasons why Israel is widely and deservedly disliked in Europe, the hysterical unreasonableness of the Israeli settler movement and its apologists, and of course the hsyterical reactions to any criticisms of Israel.

        • geronimoooo4

          LOL

          mouth foaming nutter and Holocaust denier/diminisher

          you poor soul

          • harmlessdrudge

            In case it escaped your apparently limited attention my remarks preceding the word “Right?” were sarcastic/ironic.

            You are certainly living up to the picture we have in Western Europe of the Jews as the oppressors of their neighbours; the colonists who steal their land and claim either that God gave it to them or that they bought it, and anyone who looks sideways as their behaviour is a “foaming at the mouth anti-semitist” — and a “holocaust denier” for good measure.

            I am well aware that not all Jews share the same views and I don’t ever include many that I admire in any criticisms I would make of extremists, just as I don’t regard what happened at Abu Ghraib as something characteristic of the character of America.

            Injustice is injustice, whether the victims are Jews or Palestinians. Any claim that the Jews are now and have forever been ONLY the victims of injustice is absurd.

          • geronimoooo4

            bwahahahahahaaa

            yeah, you should be worried and scared, my paranoid ‘friend’

            you forgot that we have the powers to manipulate your weak minds with our powerful zionist mind control lasers….

            and ignore that van parked in your street – satellite guys always take months to install a dish…

          • Daidragon

            Go back to school you dumb fuck.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            HD merely points out that Palestinians could still flourish in Israel/Palestine even if there had once been an attempt at genocide

        • Freda Bothwell

          It’s the Arabs who want to ‘ethnically cleanse’ Israelis. Why are the left so blind?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Not to quibble – but are Israelis an ethic group?

            Do the Arabs of Jordan or Morocco want to cleanse them?

          • Freda Bothwell

            You may already know that Arabs and Jews are half brothers, but in caae not…. Abraham had a child (Ishmael) with his wife’s Egyptian maid. He was the ‘father’ of all Arabs to follow She turned on Abrahams wife Sarah and so Sarah had her sent away. Sarah’s child Izaac was told by God that Jews were the chosen race , not for their own sake, but to tell the world about him. He also said `he was giving The Land to the Jews for ever and he has never rescinded that. The Jews were disobedient so they came under God’s curse and Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans (Who renamed the Land ‘Palestine’ to insult the Jews)
            All these years later the Jews returned (before the holocaust) and as part of the curse, the re was little or no rain on the Land for a thousand years at least. When the Jews returned (In an agreement with the Arabs and the UN) the rain began again. The desert bloomed under the nurturing by the Jews, the Arabs became jealous, became violent, decided to re-write history and claim that the Land was theirs, the Jesus was a Palestinian(!!!) and therefore the Land was theirs.
            They have lied and deceived (an acceptable way to live according to the Koran) The Jews claim goes back several thousand years – Jerusalem is not even mentioned in their Koran and is mentioned hundreds of (contemporary(times) time in the Jewish and Chrisitan Scriptures, The evidence but they convince with their lies and deceits because people don’t bother to read the the oldest documenting events – many at the time they occur.
            Scholars,Muslim and non Muslim, old and new are now doubting if Muhammed ever existed because there are no records of him at the time he is said to have been alive and not for several decades after that. (Still no mention of Jerusalem!!)

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Scholars, Jewish and non-Jewish, old and new are now doubting if Abraham and Sarah ever existed…

            You see how this works?

            No contemporary political problem can be understood by appealing to scriptural authority. It reminds me of sunnis and shias arguing about the battle of Kerbela.

        • Bobloblaw67

          If Iran get nuclear weapons, then the whole notion of nucleR non proliferation is dead. Anyone can get them.

        • cityca

          He uses Ben White as a link – ignore him.

          • MuslimJew

            Yes! Yes! Ignore everyone
            who uses Ben White as a link, because Ben White’s arguments translate into too
            many nails in Zionism’s coffin! Hurry! Divert! Divert! Antisemite! Antisemite!

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The easiest way to silence an opponent is to throw out an allegation that puts them beyond the pale. If Ben White is an antisemite, anyone relying on his work is also an antisemite, and both may be ignored. This earns you a rather easy walkover with no work.

        • Lamia

          Indeed, there as no holocaust in Europe. The whole thing was a PR move by the Jews. Just look at all the Jews still living in Europe.

          Right?

          Pitiful stuff.

          There are only a fraction of the number of Jews living in Europe today compared to before the Holocaust.

          By contrast, there are now vastly more Palestinians than there were before their own supposed holocaust.

          So how do you explain that one Holocaust resulted, as one might expect, in a population being mostly wiped out, whereas the other (supposed) one resulted in the target population not being reduced at all but in fact massively increasing?

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          I agree with the top half of your post, but the Jewish lobby is a conspiratorial invention. There are certainly campaigns that attempt to influence american policy, some of them acting openly as conduits for Israeli interests, but they don’t get their own way on everything, in fact the US often defies them, and their role is not decisive. The US has interests that often run counter to Israel’s (and Israel feels the chill, believe me).

      • MuslimJew

        1. the only people in Israel “with full civil rights”, are the ones who can pass for White Jews.
        2. Since it’s a hot, free-for-all, Iran can have atomic weapons too.
        3. It isn’t “classic anti-semitic imagery”, if it is in fact true.

        • Michael Sager

          I hope it is just ignorance on your point. I can’t be bothered with a full reply, but some points.

          1. Civil rights. An example of equality in Israel. One of the the members of the Supreme Court is an Arab, and he was part of the court that jailed the Israeli President (a Jew) for sexual misconduct

          2. Nuclear weapons is not a free for all. There is a voluntary international treaty of which Iran is a member but Israel not. This enables the purchase of dual use (peace and weapons) nuclear materials and technology subject to a regime of inspection – which Iran has been consistently sabotaging.

          3. The basis for this criticism of Israel is not true (as I’m explaining) and so supports the statement “classic anti-semitic imagery”

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            It is not true, and this makes it automatically antisemitic? Could remarks about the so-called Israel lobby be untrue for any other reason or motivation?

          • Michael Sager

            This of course not what I said. I did not say it was automatically anti-semitic. But what I am saying is that if the criticism is BOTH wrong AND uses classic anti-semitic imagery where ‘Israel’ can be substituted for ‘Jews’ (like ‘The Jews act superior and don’t keep to the rules like everyone else’), then you have to be suspicious. Here I am just paraphrasing the EU draft definition of anti-semitism, here http://www.european-forum-on-antisemitism.org/working-definition-of-antisemitism/english/

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I confess, I would not automatically think of substituting ‘Jews’ for ‘Israel’ in that quote. You must have heard people say that China/Russia/America/Rwanda cock a snook at the international community and claim historical or cultural exemptions; I suppose that racist intentions might lie behind this (inscrutable Chinese and that kind of dismal thing) but it’s not obvious.

            I think there are problems with European Forum’s definition (NOT the EU, by the way). This is not a position paper we’ve all signed up to, or which is even being promulgated actively as far as I can see. In particular, this: ‘Applying double standards by requiring of [Israel] a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.’ Every country has circumstances that are not reproduced anywhere else and would hence attract unique criticism (e.g. Romania and its treatment of Roma). Now; you will ask me why Romania does not get the same attention as Israel, from campaigners or the UN or the internal opposition. That is an interesting question, but I’d need convincing that it’s due to antisemitism – more likely it’s due to indifference to the Roma, who in any case do not have a terrorist wing.

            Let me say, I think there is a whiff of antisemitism in complaints about the so-called Israel lobby. However, does that necessarily taint other criticisms of Israel over more ‘objective’ questions?

          • allymax bruce

            “I think there are problems with European Forum’s definition (NOT the EU, by the way). This is not a position paper we’ve all signed up to, or which is even being promulgated actively as far as I can see. In particular, this: ‘Applying double standards by requiring of [Israel] a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.'”

            Thank Christ !

        • Freda Bothwell

          But it’s not,so it’s not

    • geronimoooo4

      i have a newsflash for you:

      NOBODY cares whether you approve of ‘Israel’s behaviour’ or not! LOL

      Israel is surviving, despite all odds, BECAUSE they ignore your ilk. If they listened to your type, there would’t be an Israel anymore.

      So thank you for giving us your opinion.
      By doing so, and us always deciding to do the exact opposite, we have managed to become the strongest and safest country in the entire ME.

      Despite being the youngest, the smallest, not having a drop of oil, and being attacked from the first day of its’ creation, Israel has risen, and the attackers have all fallen.

      I guess that’s all.
      Ta ta

      • MuslimJew

        You care whether harmlessdrudge approves of “‘Israel’s behaviour'” alright. Otherwise you wouldn’t have bothered formulating any kind of reply to him, and you wouldn’t be perpetually shilling for the terror-state as if your life somehow depended on it.

    • Tom M

      “dishing out the abuse…..” I suggest you aquaint yourself with the history of the region before you make comments like that. As a good starting point I would refer you to the UN partition plan in 1947 and resolution 181. From this point count the number of wars started by the arabs to “eradicate the state of Israel” and count the number of suggestions made for territorial solutions (including resolution 181) that the arabs have refused (and followed by usually starting another war or intifada just to show how civilised they are).
      Nobody from ancient history coming back to the region would have any bother at all integrating with the arab population today. They do today what the have always done since the beginning of time.

      • harmlessdrudge

        I am acquainted well enough with the history to comment. I am well aware of the eliminationist rhetoric and intentions but they did not spring from imaginary grievances and Israel has, in fact, behaved cretinously toward the Palestinians. You would think so if you were on the receiving end. Your perspective is entirely hereditary and your bigotry toward your neighbours evident in the contempt implicit in your dismissal of how they have behaved “since the beginning of time.” Rhetoric like this was used to justify the elimination of the jews once.

        Jews not seeing the irony of their own behaviour today is one of the factors that alienates Europeans. Probably the greatest actually.

        But carry on the denial if you wish.

        • Tom M

          First, you haven’t addressed the points I raised in my post following that please explain your phrase “imaginary grievances”.
          Bigoted? I don’t think so. I’m not Jewish and know none personally. I just read history and draw conclusions.
          For example how many times would your neighbour have to try to kill you before you believed it, became very suspicious of him and became obsessed with your own protection?
          If two groups of people are in mortal combat with each other don’t be surprised if they both do bad things. That happens in a war (show me a war where this hasn’t happened). We could play he-did-you-did games all day without a solution. It gets you nowhere. Look to the participants leadership to find a solution (when doing this think of Yasser Arafat and his 30 year “democratic” rule. Read Madeleine Albright’s biography for some insight into his child like character).
          I restate for background that the arabs are doing what they have done in that region since Gilgamesh. Only the arms are different. They do not want a negotiated solution they want an eradication of the state of Israel.

          • Shazza

            Wherever you find islam you find horror.

          • MuslimJew

            Wherever you find slaves to a putrid ideology you find mindless, murderous, bigots.

        • geronimoooo4

          europeans can go where the sun don;t shine
          first they sell out all their jews into gas chambers, then invite vipers into their midst and they they expect to be TELLING the survivors of the most documented genocide in human history, how to live IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY??

          they should watch Israel and LEARN from them what it takes to protect their own country and their own people. Instead Europe is selling their own countries and their own people to oil Arabs, like making a deal with Satan, only a matter of time until rivers of blood start appearing, it’s inevitable, because whoever there are Muslims, there is death and war. – and you think we care about those idiots opinion who are selling out their own children??

          dude, you should now something: jews are smart. very smart. they don;t listen to morons. that’s why you can talk until you’re blue in the face.

          soon Eurabia will be in full in war, and Israel will have been proven right, yet again!

          • harmlessdrudge

            As I have been saying: some Jews think that because they suffered a terrible injustice in the past they can now behave unjustly and do so with impunity. That is their choice. The issue posed in the article was why they are disliked by Europeans and the suggestion offered was clearly rubbish.

            Interesting that you don’t dispute the premise.

            As a citizen of a country that was neutral during the war and which did not “sell out” Jews I have no need to apologise or look the other way while Israel commits injustices (or Israel’s enemies). I have made no suggestion that the blame is entirely Israel’s.

            If you are indifferent to European opinion I suggest you stop protesting. BTW Smartness, by which I presume you mean intelligence, is not a guarantee of not doing things that are morally wrong.

          • geronimoooo4

            no you idiot!

            It means that we – the children of the survivors – are never going to listen to the children of our families’ killers.
            you have the audacity to tell us how to live, when we are surrounded by wars and destruction?
            look in the mirror and worry about your own children and grandchildren, and how our granddaughters will be verbally abused on London streets for showing their hair, because the way it seems to me is that: Israel is doing pretty f***ing well, all things considered.

            so you and your opinions about how Israelis should run their country, can french kiss my behind, thank you very much.

          • harmlessdrudge

            My opinion (I offered no advice) is merely that one historical injustice isn’t a licence for perpetual injustice and a right to violate international law with impunity.

            My own country has a higher standard of living than Israel (very much higher per capita income) and no need to spend billions on weapons (so an even higher standard of living in real terms). But let’s avoid measuring reproductive organs, it’s unfair to those who start with a self-inflicted disadvantage.

            It appears you have forgotten that the question posed was why Europeans consider Israel a pariah state. The answer is contained in your responses: abuse, aggression, contempt, denial, superiority complex, and hatred. It’s not much of a basis for peace.

          • logdon

            Europe sold out Israel to cow-tow to the malicious Arabs following the OPEC crisis.

            It was part and parcel of the Eurabia/Mediterranean accord in which they also sold out Europe, hence the swamping of our continent with non integrating Muslims.

            In turn the OPEC crisis was instigated because the US had the temerity to send arms and supplies to Israel during the Yom Kippur War.

            Spot the curse of Jew hating Islam in all of this.

            And you are no better by your idiotic knee-jerk opinions which thankfully are not reflected by the rest of us humans on this post.

            If you’re interested in the truth and I suspect that I’m wasting my time, but here goes, try this.

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eurabia-Euro-Arab-Axis-YeOr-Bat/dp/1611473144/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394749601&sr=8-1&keywords=eurabia

          • harmlessdrudge

            I have at no time referred to anyone here as a moron or an idiot or suggested that people who see things differently are Nazis or have been brainwashed. It’s certainly been interesting to see the reactions to criticism.

            I don’t agree with your diagnosis nor with your characterisation of Arabs as malicious for defending their interests. A case can also be made that guilt over the holocaust caused Europe to look the other way while the Jews oppressed the Palestinians. The Yom Kippur war didn’t happen out of a clear blue sky, any more than the second world war did.

            Referring to Europe as Eurabia is a pointless exhibition of paranoid xenophobia. It cuts ice with the uneducated and insecure and, as we know from history, that kind of demonisation and fearmongering tends to gain traction in times of economic insecurity.

            Sad to see the Jews resort to the kind of behaviour inflicted on them in the past.

          • logdon

            Arabs hate Jews. That is a given. It’s in the Koran and repeated when they hiss the name of Khaybar. (Try googling it.)

            The Eurabia compact does not refer to Europe but the deal itself.

            Try educating yourself before hurling accusations.

            And if you have an ounce of honesty in that shriveled soul of yours read the book before any declaration of paranoid xenophobia.

            I find it helps to understand and know facts rather than your uninformed, half baked ant-Semitic ramblings.

          • harmlessdrudge

            Lots of people hate people who are “other”. This kind of hatred is generally alleviated by prosperity.

            The term Eurabia as a derisive term for Europe with too many muslims is in widespread use among the far right nutcases in Europe (people like Anders Breivik). You ought to know this and be a bit slower to resort to abuse.

            So again, any criticism of Israel is “half-baked anti-semitic ramblings”. This is as inane as the assurances I have received in Cairo and elsewhere that “the Jews did 9/11.” The certainties of illiterates in a police state are excusable; the victimhood of nuclear armed democracy that feels the need to attack others pre-emptively in self-defence rather less so.

            It’s an irony you seem oblivious to that your posts drip contempt for your neighbours and don’t hesitate for an instant to resort to the charge of anti-semitisim. It would be laughable if it wasn’t sad.

          • nullifidian

            Thank you for your valiant efforts to bring objectivity, honesty, humanity and compassion into these exchanges. Here’s what respected Israeli journalist Akiva Eldar (35 years with Haaretz) said after studying Israeli public opinion surveys:
            “Israeli Jews’ consciousness is characterized by a sense of victimization, a siege mentality, blind patriotism, belligerence, self-righteousness, dehumanization of the Palestinians, and insensitivity to their suffering.”
            Sums up many of the persons who post here quite well………..

          • harmlessdrudge

            I might easily have missed your kind message as I confess I skipped some of the outpouring of bile. I just didn’t have time to even keep up with it and was, in any case, taken aback by it — never having encountered anything like it before.

            It’s the dehumanization that is most depressing (the insensitivity follows). It is desperately sad that the people who have suffered the most should turn into this when so many of their number have been among the wisest and most admirable people who have ever lived. However, I understand it, up to a point. No people who have suffered as the Jews have can escape unscathed.

            I knew that individuals who have been abused as children tend to pass it on. I hadn’t realized that it might also be true at the level of a society, or a large part of it; but why wouldn’t it be? Time was when the Jews were on the receiving end of a population that blamed them for all their ills. The irony is just dire.

            As someone who feels that a real patriot is more critical of his country than its worst enemy, I think honesty has its place and can play an important role in reconciliation. I wasn’t familiar with Akiva Eldar. Thanks.

          • geronimoooo4

            LOOOL

            anti-semites quoting jews, to hide their obvious anti-semitism and desperately trying to sound convincing to other jews, while criticising jews

            i love how stupid your kind thinks we are
            so what if you quote some jew who writes for Haaretz (the equivalent of The Guardian!!) – you think suddenly we’ll all go “oh well, if he said that, then it must be so…”

            you’re just as dumb as ‘john’

          • logdon

            Your abject ignorance is quite astounding.

            Eurabia is not a defensive term. I provided a link but you are either too lazy, too thick or just can’t face the truth in ignoring it.

            Here’s more…..

            Dr. Reverand Martin Luther King, Jr. was an American clergyman, activist and prominent leader in the American Civil Rights Movement in the 1960’s. He was also an outspoken advocate on behalf of Israel’s security and against anti-Semitism, especially among the African-American community.

            Speaking at the annual convention of the Rabbinical Assembly in 1968, Dr. King said:

            “The response of some of the so-called young militants does not represent the position of the vast majority of Negroes. There are some who are color-consumed and they see a kind of mystique in blackness or in being colored, and anything non-colored is condemned. We do not follow that course …

            Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to
            protect her right to exist, its territorial integrity and the right to
            use whatever sea lanes it needs. Israel is one of the great outposts of
            democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and
            democracy. Peace for Israel means security, and that security must be a
            reality,”

            He is also attributed with having said, “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews.

            You’re talking anti-Semitism,” in response to a student who had attacked
            Zionism during a dinner event with Dr. King in 1968.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            ? Is MLK the final word on all questions? Is this supposed to evaporate all your opponents’ objections? If I provided a 46 year old link to a different opinion about the conflict, you would be quick to spot the problem.

          • nullifidian

            A quote for you from Judith Butler:

            “It is untrue, absurd, and painful for anyone to argue that those who formulate a criticism of the State of Israel is anti-Semitic or, if Jewish, self-hating. Such charges seek to demonize the person who is articulating a critical point of view and so disqualify the viewpoint in advance. It is a silencing tactic: this person is unspeakable, and whatever they speak is to be dismissed in advance or twisted in such
            a way that it negates the validity of the act of speech. The charge refuses to consider the view, debate its validity, consider its forms of evidence, and derive a sound conclusion on the basis of listening to reason. The charge is not only an attack on persons who hold views that some find objectionable, but it is an attack on reasonable
            exchange, on the very possibility of listening and speaking in a context where one might actually consider what another has to say”.

          • logdon

            Judith Butler is a renown ant-Semite.

            Here’s someone who wasn’t

            Martin Luther King

            “anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so.”

          • nullifidian

            I note you avoided addressing the issue Judith Butler raised, choosing instead to vilify the messenger and attempt to stifle debate. Is this because it is impossible to defend the morally indefensible behaviour of Israel?
            Anti-semitism is a truly noxious thing, but by conflating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism, you are turning anti-semitism into something ethical and honorable.

          • logdon

            So according to you M L-K was wrong?

          • nullifidian

            Your MLK quote is phony. What he actually said was “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-semitism”. Are you suggesting that conflating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism is ok because MLK said so?
            The World Union of Jewish Students is affiliated with the World Zionist Organization, the World Jewish Congress and the Jewish Agency for Israel. Here’s an extract from their “Hasbara Handbook – Promoting Israel on Campus”:
            “Not everybody who attacks Israel is antisemitic. It is legitimate for those who oppose Israeli policies to express this opposition in public, just as it is legitimate for Israel activists to defend Israel. It is important to defend the right of those who disagree with Israeli policies to express their opinions, and to be clear this is a legitimate part of public debate”.
            You might also learn something from the words of Jewish barrister Adam Wagner:
            “Of course, some criticism of Israel is linked to or motivated by anti-Semitism, but isn’t it time to stop using vast resources to paint legitimate debate as racial hatred? As well as failing miserably as a pro-Israel argument, this approach also risks fatally undermining work against real
            anti-Semitism…………………………… More importantly, the
            ‘anti-Zionism equals racism’ argument is plainly bankrupt and has no purchase in wider society”.

          • logdon

            “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-semitism”.

            That’s what I said. Or rather M L-K did.

            You in the fastness of your Jew hate are unreachable. It is the worst of racism and seemingly, because sanctioned by the left has the mark of approval within those smug circles.

            Don’t bother replying because quite frankly the hypocrisy stinks.

          • nullifidian

            Tantrum because you lost the argument?

          • geronimoooo4

            no, we don;t like to ‘argue’ with brain dead morons

            that’s why jews always argue with one another

          • geronimoooo4

            and now you quote a jew-hater and so what??

            stop quoting people, nobody cares

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Instead of us Googling Khaybar, why don’t you tell us what you mean? When, exactly, do Muslims ‘hiss’ the name? How does it prove that Muslims hate Jews?

          • logdon

            First run your curser highlighting the word khaybar.

            Next either go to edit ‘copy’ or press control and c.

            Next go to Google usually top right and either go to edit ‘paste’ or press control and v.

            Next using curser press the magnifier or press return.

            Voilla, job done.

            Not so hard was it?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I am sure you understand the point I am making. Instead of telling me to go away and read pages of (contradictory and inconsistent) sources, tell me what conclusions you have drawn from them. My three questions in my last post cannot be addressed by any amount of Googling, because these pages of online links do not publicise your thinking about them.

          • logdon

            I do understand your point, only too well.

            My thinking will only reflect what you read, therefore I suggest that you do what I have done, (reading books as well as researching via Google) and find out for yourself.

            I’m sure that a clever chap like yourself will be capable of sorting the dross of contradiction and inconsistency from the crux of the truth.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Now you’re being coy. The ‘truth’ is not out there on the web, and I won’t be able to find out what is in your head by looking for it.

          • geronimoooo4

            if it walks like a moron, and talks like a moron….

          • geronimoooo4

            it doesn’t matter since nobody kills as many muslims as other muslims – including palestinians

          • Lamia

            My own country has a higher standard of living than Israel (very much higher per capita income) and no need to spend billions on weapons)

            Your country isn’t surrounded by backwards Arab nations hell-bent on wiping you off the face off the earth or treating you as, at best, a second class class citizen. Israel is.

          • MuslimJew

            Take your pity party to Vad Yashem, and go wail in a corner, because the wars and destruction you are surrounded by are entirely of your own making.

            And any “children of the survivors” should quit acting like the worst kind of entitled assholes, if they don’t fallout. Alternatively, go settler-colonize the moon if you don’t wish to suffer reprisals.

            Meanwhile Israel is doing so fucking well, the Haredim have gone spit-crazy.

          • geronimoooo4

            Israel has absolutely no reason to apologise to you or any European country, when they retaliate in Gaza

            Look at Europe, are you blind? it’s finished, done, the end.
            when drowning idiots, think they can lecture the smart ones inside life rafts, then you just got to laugh…

          • Daidragon

            Very true. Israel are masters at tweaking the western guilt reflex and using their world champions of victimhood status to justify all sorts of atrocities. Ariel Sharon was no better than Himmler.

          • John Kinory

            What a sicko you are.

        • cityca

          You offer Ben White as a link – how on earth do you expect to be taken seriously now?

    • Penny

      Why is Israel an apartheid state? Where is the ethnic cleansing and colonisation? The populations are growing and Israel has given back territory.

      Israel’s need of nuclear weapons is self-evident and far from behaving with impunity it strikes me that in its recent conflicts it has responded to outside negotiations rather swiftly. Other countries in the ME are extremely worried about Iran’s potential nuclear program, not Israel’s.

      What abuse is being dished out? To my mind the Palestinians seem not to be over-worried: they resist most peace negotiations and want right of return. I’m not sure they or their supporters can have this both ways. Conditions cannot be so bad if, when given what they’ve asked for, the Palestinians still refuse the offers and Israel cannot be so terrible if the Palestinians are insisting on the right to live among its current population.

      • harmlessdrudge

        I provided a link earlier. Please don’t insult our intelligence with these protestations of innocent victimhood. Over 500 Palestinian towns and villages were ethnically cleansed in 1948. The fact that there are Arabs in Israel today is not testament to Israel’s innocence in this matter.

        Israel certainly has behaved with complete and utter impunity. The support of an illegitimate undemocratic regime in Saudi Arabia confers no moral authority for attacks on other countries, regardless of what rhetoric its leaders use about about Israel. Mutually assured destruction was good enough for the US, but Israel decides it has the right to attack any potential threat. Fine. Live by the sword… if you think it’s an indefinitely sustainable strategy.

        What abuse? You can’t be serious.

        • Penny

          I’m unaware of any attempt on my part to make “protestations of innocent victimhood” to whoever you think you’re speaking on behalf of.

          You, on the other hand, are airbrushing out chunks of pertinent facts in what appears to be an attempt to cast blame unevenly. As for the “live by the sword” – I would suggest that might be better pointed towards the Palestinian leadership who, despite offers that matched their expectations, nevertheless declined peace deals and, in Arafat’s case, instigated an intifada.

        • Cyril Sneer

          You truly are on a hiding to nothing you ignorant whelp.

        • basiclogic1

          Seriously? in 48, where 7 arab armies along extra divisions from 9 other arab states attacked israel simultaneously, to Annihilate it, you choose to blame Israel for an act of war?

          The simple fact is that Israel said yes for 2 states back in 48, arabs refused. Arab countries sent out radio broadcast for all arabs to evacuate their land and that once the land is cleansed of Jews (Jews – not Israeli – but Jews) they can return.

          This is a direct line of the Jerusalem Arab Haj, who dealed with the Nazies in 1942. Hiter and Haj amin el husseini met in the end of 42 to deal with the arab problem of Jews in the “British Colony of Palestina”.

          The fact of matter is that 6 million jews are no threat to 1 Billion Muslims.

      • flexdream

        My understanding is that Israel is the only Middle Eastern country where Christians are increasing. Hardly ‘apartheid’ then.

        • Penny

          Yes, you’re right. I recently read a report whose figures suggest the Christian population is growing at a faster rate than the Jewish and Muslim populations.

          Apartheid is yet another term borrowed from past history simply because Palestinian supporters know it will create an emotive response in western minds. It’s a nonsense. If it genuinely existed then it would form part of most western governments’ policies on Israel – but it doesn’t because it’s simply not true.

    • Cyril Sneer

      I can’t be bothered to read all of your post.

      If you think Israel is an ‘apartheid’ state, then clearly you are an ignorant.

      If you want to know about ethnic cleansing take a look a minority populations in the Middle East and see how much these populations have shrunk, even vanished.

    • Freda Bothwell

      Have you been brainwashed?

    • Freda Bothwell

      What utter nonsense. Israelis treat Arabs including Syrian in their hospitals, they are in the Knesset, both sides work well,together in business and dome friends. Have you been there? Doesn’t sound like it. Sure you haven’t been brainwashed into believing a lie?

    • logdon

      So self righteous in your lying hatred aren’t you?

      The same mentality as shown at the Wansee Conference.

    • basiclogic1

      In genocide, a population tends not to grow, especially not exponentially.
      In apartheid, an arab cannot make to high court and send a former jewish to prison.

      the fact is that arabs in israel have equal rights by law, while palestinians, not being Israeli do not – same as I wouldn’t have same rights of any other citizen in other countries.

      Learn. the. difference.

    • Bobloblaw67

      Israel is far from engaged in ethnic clensing. It is Abbas who vows no Jew shall live in Palestine. No one suggests that no Arab should live in Israel.

    • al-kafir al-yahudi

      “It’s an apartheid state engaged in brutal, systematic ethnic cleansing and colonisation.”

      LOL. do you know what apartheid is? do you know what ethnic cleansing is? do you know what colonisation is?

      i can answer for you: no, no and no!

      • harmlessdrudge

        I speak Dutch. Do you? (know the meaning of apartheid?) I am a citizen of a country that was colonised and whose people suffered political persecution, cultural oppression, expropriation and diaspora. Are you? Was your father or first employer kicked by enemy soldiers in his own capital city and told to walk in gutter? Do you have first or second hand experience of occupation? Of ethnic cleansing?

        Very likely you are a Jew who is busy revenging himself on Palestinians for the sins of the Germans. The greatest (and most humble) Jew of all said “if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.”

        That Jew didn’t say “let’s screw these people over, they’re even weaker than we are”.

        • al-kafir al-yahudi

          You forget (or ignore) the fact that Jewish presence in Israel/Palestine/Levant predates Arab presence by thousands of years. So, the typical canard of the Jew being the big, bad foreign colonizer and oppressing the poor “indigenous” Palestinians in completely absurd. There has always been a Jewish presence there, even during the 1900 year diaspora. When Jews had the ability to return to the land, they moved to already-existing Jewish locations. Arabs were only uprooted when they initiated the war. Too bad for them that they lost.

          The returning Jews did so out of absolute love for their own culture, tradition and religion…not out of a sadistic desire to take latent Holocaust-frustration out on the Arabs. Did you know that the term “Palestinian” traditionally referred to Jews, until the PLO usurped the term in 1964? Can you guess why? However, even given the abhorrent attitude of Arabs toward Jews, Israel gave them a choice: become full-fledged citizens of Israel, or don’t. Those Arabs that chose to become citizens are called Israel-Arabs and make up about 20% of Israel’s population. These Arabs enjoy the same exact benefits as Jewish citizens, and participate in all aspects of Israeli life without hindrance. The “Palestinians” aren’t citizens, and therefore do not have the same benefits of Israeli citizenship. This is how every single other country in the world operates, so singling out Israel is intellectually dishonest.

          Now, consider Palestinian Arabs in Arab countries. In Lebanon, Palestinians are forbidden by law to own land and are kept in refugee camps. Jordan has recently stripped them of Jordanian citizenship. This is apartheid. Israel’s policy of dealing with non-citizens committing terrorism isn’t.

          Moving on to “ethnic cleansing”: as I mentioned above, 20% of Israel’s population is Arab. Please try to explain how the evil Jews are cleansing their country of an inferior ethnicity when people of this other ethnicity are in sports, politics, entertainment, civil service, etc; and when Israel’s two official languages are Hebrew and Arabic. And then there are the “Palestinians”, whose population actually grows in the “world’s worst concentration camp” called Gaza. What exactly is being cleansed?

        • geronimoooo4

          isn;t it absolutely amazing, how delusional anti-Semites whose forefather killed our people, think they have the right to tell us what to do, how to live, how to act, give us quotes from other jews (as not to appear too anti-Semitic) we should adhere to, and then act surprised when we ignore them??

          ARE YOU FOR REAL WITH ALL THAT BS??

          seriosly, it must be torture being you every day
          you see a scary jew under every bed and behind every door, waiting to screw you over somehow, poor diddums

          well, in Israel, jews fight for their survival and existence, IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY (!), so can you take your ‘advice’ and your quotes, and stick them all where the sun don’t shine, thank you, your opinions aren;t interesting to anybody

          and thanks for the purchase of your laptop and mobile phone, all proceeds go to the brave IDF – LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            You mean, the argument is over when everyone agrees with you? And you hold discussions only with like-minded people? The point about democracy and free speech is that anyone has the right to talk about anything. I can tell women what I think about abortion, even though I’ll never have one. I can talk to Jews about Israel even though I’ve never been there. I can tell Chinese people what I think about Tibet, and balls to their cultural sensitivities. No-one should be disqualified in advance, or vetoed because just because they get on your nerves.

          • allymax bruce

            Jeffrey, check-out an article called Chinese Liberation Banking, by Patrick L Young; it’s on RT. The future is now.

    • John Kinory

      ethnic cleansing … screech screech … colonisation … screech screech …
      Idiot.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        I agree, these words are used as a kind of reflex. But then you tend to respond with allegations of antisemitism and racism, even to posts where (as far as I can see) none is intended. We should all play the ball and not the man.

        • John Kinory

          That’s your opinion – and you are wrong. I play the ball. When I see antisemitism, I call it antisemitism. Sorry if you don’t like it. Actually, no, I am not. I have no reason to apologise for damning racism directed against my people. So if you don’t like it, that’s your problem.
          You’ll tell us next that accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing is not antisemitism.
          But beyond such obvious antisemitism, there are more subtle forms (many of them, not by all that much) that maybe you really can’t see, but I do. I have developed a nose for it over the years. I am very, very, very rarely wrong: almost without exception, nudging such a person just slightly pushes him over the edge and he no longer even tries to be subtle, and the far stronger bile comes pouring out.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Ethnic cleansing is such a boo-term that it’s become meaningless; does it mean forced removals, massacres, genocide, discrimination…I would say the allegation is false, but the motivation need not be antisemitic. Critics of Israel that I know are sometimes ignorant, hypocritical, tactically dumb or bleeding-heart types, but I don’t know any who actually hate Jews. Even if they were all antisemites, does it further the debate by pointing it out? The other side could say that all disparaging remarks about Palestine or Gaza or Hamas are motivated by arabophobia; this is sometimes true, but pointing it out does not really undermine the shoddy logic of the accuser – it just looks like a refusal to engage. The punchline of HD’s last post was about Israel’s right to exist; just how far does s/he really support it? This is the thing you want to tease out. Because if s/he does, s/he might have to revise opinion on Israel’s ‘behaviour.’

          • John Kinory

            That is equivalent to saying that discrimination against blacks on Alabama buses was not racist because the perpetrators claimed not to hate blacks.
            Any harsher demands made on Israel than on other players, all other things being equal (and they are worse than equal, because it was not Israel that attacked several surrounding countries in 48, 67, 73, …) is ipso facto discrimination, therefore ipso facto racist.
            Until you grasp that fact, you fail to grasp the most fundamental aspect of the whole situation.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I think you are assuming they hate Jews unless you have some kind of diagnostic test that they don’t. Unlike the Alabama segregationists, the people I am talking about don’t give off any antisemitic aroma, and are quick to pick up and comment on antisemitism when they hear it. I am sure you are not claiming that there are no legitimate grounds for criticising Israel for anything whatever, just in case it is taken to be discriminatory. Example: if I criticise the actions of this or that American administration, am I anti-American?

          • John Kinory

            Hand-waving, I am afraid. (a) It is not for non-Jews to say who ‘gives off any antisemitic aroma’ and who doesn’t. It is now accepted practice to accord the greatest weight to the perceptions of the targetted group. Once again, to all except Jews. (b) I definitely sense such aroma, as I have mentioned before. (c) I am, however, looking mostly at their actions and statements. (d) Of course some of them (but by far not all) ‘comment on antisemitism’ and of course they all claim not to hate Jews. I mentioned that before. It is a cheap and easy gambit, and impresses me not one whit. Claiming not to hate blacks but calling for segregation is exactly the same thing. Antisemitism has bad press, so they claim to only hate Israel, … oops … sorry … Zionists. A child of 3 should be able to see through it. (e) ” I am sure you are not claiming that there are no legitimate grounds for criticising Israel for anything whatever” is another cheap gambit. When someone demonises Israel relentlessly and obsessively, using bilious and hate-filled language (often imported verbatim from the Protocols and such) and easily refuted lies, they have outed themselves. Ditto when they bring in terminology from the Holocaust. That is not remotely similar to ‘criticising’. Claiming that Israel is a ‘colonising enterprise by Europeans / Kazars / whatever’, that Gaza is a ‘concentration camp’ and that Israel is conducting ‘ethnic cleansing’ (which, by the way, is simply a euphemism for [attempted] genocide), that is not ‘critising’.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Vetoes of this kind are not very practical. What happens when two Jews disagree? How do you know I am not Jewish?
            You have not answered my question about legitimate criticism; you’ve simply given examples of illegitimate criticism.

          • John Kinory

            Please, let’s not insult your intelligence. You know perfectly well what would constitute legit. criticism.

  • mac mac

    The reason people hate Israel is simple: the occupation.

    • Shazza

      For about the last 5000 years?

    • geronimoooo4

      LOL

      yeah, right

    • Tom M

      Occupation? Of what precisely? To occupy somewhere implies that it belonged to someone else before. I seem to recall the deal on the table that divided up the region by the UN was rejected by the arabs. You can’t have it both ways. If they rejected the division then at this precise point in time it is in dispute.

    • Penny

      Tom M’s comment aside – which is, of course, a truism – if some of the right-on crowd dislike Israel *because* of occupation, why do they not hold the same distaste for other occupations?

      • mac mac

        Who says we don’t?

        • Cyril Sneer

          Did you know there have been no democratic elections in Gaza since Hamas took over in 2007.

          Did you know that gays, Fatah supporters and others are routinely attacked, murdered etc by the ruling Hamas authority.

          I find it stunning that people like you bark on about Israel while ignoring the clear human rights abuses going on in Gaza.

          Hypocrites you all are.

          • mac mac

            I don’t “bark on about Israel”. I stated a fact, which is that Gaza is blockaded.
            Maybe someday you will will understand that Israel is not held to a higher standard out of hate. Israel is an advanced country with a good economy. It is in a position to uphold human rights and it should. Do the right thing, end the occupation.

          • Penny

            Israel can’t pull out of West Bank unilaterally, mac mac. It has to negotiate borders (and this would be in accordance to Res 242). It has to maintain security if further and deeper strife is not to occur. Furthermore, if it were to up sticks and trot away right now there might be no small risk to the PA re: Hamas.

          • MuslimJew

            Israel’s borders were declared and established on Friday 14th May 1948,
            the day the terror-state unilaterally declared its independence and was
            established, so why precisely does Israel need “to negotiate borders”?

          • Penny

            I’m surprised that you’re asking me. I didn’t write UN resolution 242 under which the borders have to be agreed.

            1) In 1947 the Arab contingent rejected partition and so logically, rejected both a state and borders.
            2) The 5 Arab armies attacked Israel in 1948. Jordan illegally annexed West Bank which it held from .48 – ’67. During this period there was no call from any Palestinian group for an independent state separate from Jordan.
            3) In 1967 the Arab armies again attacked but this time Israel pushed back the Jordanians. There exists now the ceasefire line which is not a border.

            As there wasn’t nor ever had been an independent state of Palestine, and as there was no governing body to negotiate with after the Jordanian attack – except Jordan which had taken the land illegally in the first place – the borders remain negotiable.

          • Cyril Sneer

            “Maybe someday you will will understand that Israel is not held to a higher standard out of hate.”

            That is precisely my point – it is the only country held to that standard in that region. Hamas can literally oppress gays, murder Fatah supporters and from a Palestinians youths mouth – if caught taking drugs they would either be beaten severely or have their throats slit.

            There is no balance with you people. You literally do ignore human rights abuses in that region because the perpetrators are not Jewish or the (incorrect) assumption is that Israeli’s are more white in appearance than their darker neighbours and thus that singles them out for the ridiculous ‘apartheid’ label.

            That same apartheid label is not applied to muslim countries and yet they practice that exact thing.

          • Penny

            “There is no balance with you people”

            Their criticisms tend to strike me as a complete lack of self-awareness. It’s as if they do not believe the Palestinians are capable of behaviour consistent with the standards to which they hold Israel. Israel is the adult; the Palestinians just wayward teens, as yet inexperienced and incapable of grown-up judgement and behaviour.

          • MuslimJew

            You clearly have the self-awareness of a grape.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Do you take the point that Israel is a democracy, and people expect it to behave better than its non-democratic neighbours? The reason that human rights are ignored in (say) Gaza is that chauvinist Europeans don’t expect any better from ‘dirty Arabs.’ The complaints about Israel are actually a compliment.

          • geronimoooo4

            i already told you:

            ask Egypt to ‘unblock’ it then

            oh wait a minute, they are building a wall, just like Israel did

            nevermind then

          • geronimoooo4

            you forgot the christians, they’re life inGaza is absolutely shite

          • Penny

            A little off-topic I admit but connected to the blind eyes turned to Palestinian life:

            A while ago a British MP raised an Early Day Motion regarding the torturing to death of six Palestinian men by the PA. Last time I looked I think he’d garnered about six signatures – way too few to trigger a debate.

            Contrast this, if you will, with the squillions of MP’s who rushed to sign another EDM less than 48hrs after the Mavi Marmara incident. A timespan so short I doubt even the Israelis had pieced together what had happened, much less our MP’s. Yet even without any more knowledge than they’d gleaned from the BBC they were panting for a debate.

            Two examples that, in my view, speak volumes.

          • Bob339

            I am so sorry your teachers let you down and you were obviously blessed with vulgar, ill-educated parents who were not married.
            I
            do not have to look up online what I know from personal experience. Of
            course, foolish of me to have opinions that differ from those of a
            practising moron.

            Don’t reply – just die.

        • Penny

          That would be a fair point, mac mac, if one were to see the same level of activism occurring outside of matters connected to Israel. Point me to a BDS movement, a rally, numerous blogs, student activism and the like regarding, say, Turkey, and I will concede.

    • geronimoooo4

      Gaza isn’t occupied

      and isn’t it thriving……!

      • mac mac

        It’s not occupied, it’s blockaded.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Any mention of the Egyptians flooding the tunnels leading to their border. Oh they’re not Israeli so I guess that doesn’t matter to you.

          Like I said ‘hypocrite’.

        • Penny

          Legally so, mac mac. In order to prevent missiles being delivered to Hamas’ door for firing into civilian populations in Israel. Any country that does nothing while being fired upon would be one in which the population were mentally unbalanced.

          All Hamas has to do is agree to peace. If it won’t do that then the situation will persist because it has to.

        • geronimoooo4

          ask the egyptians to ‘unblock’ it then

          Israel and Gaza are at war – thanks to Hamas
          so for Israelis to open up Gaza, would make them really stupid
          Israelis aren’t stupid, that’s why they live well
          Palestinians are stupid, that’s why they live in squalor

    • douginsd

      So, unlike the Spanish, they were not entitled to attempt a Reconquista, and history only flows one way, towards the Muslim Arabs? BTW, much of the pre-1948 lands the original Zionists bought from absentee landlords. Also when the Arabs tried to force them out in several wars, they got their heads handed to them. Why shouldn’t the victors keep the spoils, especially if they were their ancestral homelands.

      • Larry Larkin

        Not only was land purchased from absentee landlords. They also purchased waste land from locals, made it into productive farmlands and orchards, and then had the former owners, who had been paid well, attack them and attempt to burn them out to take the suddenly productive land back.
        And that goes back to before WWI, it began in the 1890s.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Oh is that why muslims hate them. So the koran and Islam is only some 70 years old?

      • geronimoooo4

        LOL, good point

      • Freda Bothwell

        Some scholars, both. Muslim and Non Muslim, old and modern, having done in depth study, have cone to doubt if Muhammed ever existed, there are no,contemporaneous records or preports and that is may be a man made (satanic) religion.

  • john

    I’m not sure Israelis like Israel. About 1 million Israelis are outside the country at any time – living in the US.Australia and Europe..

    • geronimoooo4

      how dare they, right?!

      just because they go abroad to study and work and travel, it automatically means they HATE their country?

      i love Israel haters: they always prove what simple minded idiots they are.

      • john

        Calm down! I certainly don’t hate Israel or any other country for that matter. I’m simply making a relevant point. Why do 20% of the Israeli population prefer to live abroad? My guess is that they want a second passport as a backup.

        • geronimoooo4

          and that’s the reason why jews are considered smart, Professor

          you’d be an idiot not to get insurance, when you’re surrounded by a murderous death cult

          • john

            Of course they don’t hate Israel (can we drop this ugly word?). However, it suggests they are far less committed to Israel than their PR would suggest. I believe this partially explains Israel’s paranoia – the fear that the country’s population is fundamentally insecure and may begin to leave if things get too difficult.

          • geronimoooo4

            absolute rubbish!
            if Israelis were;t committed to Israel, it wouldn’t exist anymore

          • john

            More than half the world’s Jews do not live in “The Jewish State”. I wonder why?

          • Penny

            Quite a few Brits don’t live in the UK either, John. We’re all over the place either emigrating or working. I don’t read anything into this that would make me *wonder* as to why.

          • john

            That comment is unconvincing. Israel is only 70 years old and is designated as”The Jewish State”. Britain is 2000+ years old and isn’t the “Church of England” State.

          • geronimoooo4

            god you’re dumb

          • Penny

            This is a bewildering comment, John. What on earth has the historical age of a country to do with whether people opt to emigrate or work abroad? And, of course, strictly speaking Israel is considerably older than 70.

            If England isn’t the Church of England state, where might we find this particular denomination?

          • geronimoooo4

            you are sooooo stupid, seriously!

            do all catholics live in Rome?
            do all Muslims live in Saudi, or only Muslim countries?

            Israel is less than a century old, and you wonder why many jews live in other countries??

            maybe jews should ask your permission next time they want to move somewhere or live outside Israel…..

          • john

            The Zionists were firmly convinced that all Jews would rush to Israel once it was established. This has proved to be quite untrue and the “Jewish State” designation has proved invalid.

          • geronimoooo4

            do you even have a point or something?

            why must all jews live in Israel?

            how old are you actually?
            I feel like you;re a teenager who got lost on the way to play a video game….

          • john

            Your response misses the point. Israel was established to be a homeland for Jews. This has not happened and Israel may now face a declining (Jewish) population.

          • Penny

            A sanctuary was establish, John. And for very good reasons.

          • Sarka

            Israeli Jewish emigration rates are lower than average, their birthrates are higher than Western averages. The (already quite low) migration figures from Israel also cannot be interpreted as all definitive emigration – since Israel has a highly educated population, the figures include many who are just out in the world to study and work for a while, and who later return.
            Application of Palestinian demand for Right of Return (which absolutely will not happen), would mean Israel’s Jews facing minority status, but within Israel itself (i.e. excluding WB) the Israeli Arab birthrates are not such as to suggest that Jewish Israelis would not be the main demographic in Israel any time soon.
            It is predicted on current trends that more than half the world’s Jewish population will be living in Israel by the mid-century. That’s to some extent because of continuing assimilation trends elsewhere (esp. US or UK, where mixed marriages – very common – can lead over a generation or so to children/grandchildren not identifying as Jews). But it is also because of continuing Jewish immigration to Israel.

            The largest Jewish community in Europe is the French, but it is shrinking. French Jewish immigration rates to Israel (also elsewhere) nearly doubled in one year recently. A lot of the problem seems to be resurgent antisemitism – partly but not exclusively associated with the ever-expanding Muslim population of France.

            I think your views of Israeli Jewish demographics are wishful thinking.

          • john

            Pretty unconvincing logic!

            Quote: “Application of Palestinian demand for Right of Return (which absolutely will not happen), would mean Israel’s Jews facing minority status”
            In other words Israel can only exist by denying others their rights. My basic point.

          • Penny

            Right of Return is not a universal right, John. Each country sets its own criteria.

          • john

            It is a universal right and is laid down in the Geneva convention. Occupiers must allow the native population to return after hostilities.
            Also there is a UN declaration on the same point.

          • Penny

            No, John – it is not so straightforward as that. There can be no one-size-fits-all law because there is no one-size-fits-all demographic and/or scenario. This is why each country must set its own criteria. France, for example, withdrew right of return from Huguenots living in Germany after WWII due to the possibility of them having joined the Nazi party. The Arab world has no right of return for the 860,000 Jews it expelled or caused to flee post WWII. Of this I know because my husband’s family were among them.

            The first duty of any government is to protect its citizens and for that reason will vet any application for right of return. It is not obliged to grand RoR to anyone deemed a risk to others.

            The UN is a disgraced organisation that has lost its way.

          • john

            Last response.

            So I can see you have a vested interest in one side of this issue?
            I stand by my claim that Israel is in default of international law by denying Arab exiles the right to return. Why should these refugees be assumed to be a risk?
            Whether Arab countries are similarly at fault, I don’t know.
            NB I love the Huguenots reference, I lost track of them after Madam de Maintenant left the scene. Bye.

          • Penny

            John, knowing the facts is not a vested interest! Look up the various criteria laid down by the countries that have RoR – not all of them do so the claim of international law is skewed here. This info is available on the internet – which is how I know that it is most certainly not a one-size-fits-all international law – logic alone should tell you that it cannot be!

            Why should the refugees be at risk? Oh come on, John – don’t be so coy! Israel’s population is around 8 million. The Palestinian refugees – the only ones in the world granted inherited refugee status – number maybe 5 million. That is around two-thirds. Would the UK – a population of 60-odd million allow into the country 40 million people with whom it has been in conflict and who have been educated to hate us? I think not.

            And even if these refugees were the most peaceful of people imagine the impact on society. Imagine now 40million coming into the UK in a short space of time. Our infrastructure, schools, hospitals, emergency services, housing, employment and social welfare simply couldn’t cope. We’d collapse within weeks. Is this the future you envisage for the Palestinians you appear to support?

          • Sarka

            Not your point. Your point was that Israel was facing a decline in Jewish population. It was untrue.

            Your idea that Israel can only exist by denying others their rights is a completely different point.

            Anywhay, here’s a pub quiz question for you:
            In 48/9 approx 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were displaced. It is their descendants that claim right of return.

            Can you (your starter for ten), identify the ethnicity(ies) of the approx other 13 million persons fled and expelled without right of return or compensation a couple of years earlier.
            You will assuredly find that easy, so you will find it even easier to identify at least two reasonably well-known states that could/would not exist in their present form were the descendants of these 14 million people to be granted right of return, and to take it, plus aspirations to collective right of self-determination?

            Having identified these states, please tell me honestly whether you have noticed anyone much complaining about their existence and the injustice involved, and whether you have been doing any agitating and letter-writing about the problem yourself.

            Have a go – it’s good for the old brain cells!

          • Larry Larkin

            If you are so upset about Israel being “The Jewish State” how do you feel about the Hashemite Arab Kingdom of Jordan, or the Arab Republic of Egypt, or the Islamic Republic of Iran?
            Because those are their full, official names. And what’s more, they are, and have been for 60 plus years, actively expelling Jews and Christians, and in the case of Iran, Zoroastrians and Ba’hais.
            Which is why the world headquarter of the Ba’hai faith is on Mt Carmel, just outside Tel Aviv, and not in Iran.

          • anotherjoeblogs

            Haifa ! not Tel Aviv ! and the gardens near Acco, where I spent many an hour walking around getting an appetite before humus and a falafel

            http://www.ganbahai.org.il/en/akko/

          • john

            I oppose any national designation that defines its citizens. Only the last of the 3 you quote really match the criterion.

    • Jambo25

      Lots of Scots live outside Scotland but they still, overwhelmingly, like the place. The same goes for the Irish.

    • O’Chamberlain LordO’PinkLines

      Trust me “john” read my response above, Israelis LOVE ISRAEL.

      http://www.cybertechisrael.com

      From an Israeli Jew that’s proud and willing to stand up for a nation he’s proud of and loves.

      • john

        OK I think my point still stands but I accept your statement.

  • readysf

    Start with a silly premise, and build a ridiculous edifice on it! Israel the victim, indeed!

    Israel’s behavior is contrary to Western values that “all men are created equal”. No, Arabs are not inferior, and that particular bit of Orientalism is over.

    Israel is able to indulge in its abusive behavior (including confiscation of private property) because of organizations like AIPAC which have bought and paid for politicians. And, people are not allowed to talk openly without risking being called anti Semitic (even Jews!). This is why people despise it.

    Poor Israel! Posturing as victim, yet again.

    • geronimoooo4

      Yeah, it’s the 1.2 BILLION Muslims in dozens of countries, that are all running around killing everybody in sight, and each other that are the victims!

      Without Israel, Muslims would be skipping around the world handing each other flowers and singing kymbaya, instead of gassing and eating each other….

      Those evil zionists, and those poor innocent muslims – how dare 0.2% of the world MIND CONTROL 35% of the world into killing each other???

      tehehe

    • O’Chamberlain LordO’PinkLines

      How dare you level rank hypocrisy at Israel. After witnessing your actions the last few weeks against a real superpower both your friends and enemies alike laugh as you tear yourselves to pieces with this bankrupt concept of multculturalism and tearing down of your national identities. Even Angela Merkel admitted multiculturalism has failed.

      Your rank hypocrisy is increasingly drawing hostility, anger and outrage in Israel rather than alarm, concern the way it used to. You systematically attack Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Libya as you please, you breach multiple “territorial integrities” as it suits your interests, whilst lecturing other sovereigns about how to go about securing their own interests, national security. Let’s not forget that Europeans were responsible for the carnage that brought us 2 horrific World Wars taking untold millions of lives and misery.

      Today leader of the left wing liberal fascists; O’Chamberlain Commander in Chief O’Pink Lines swans around the world lecturing others, in fact he doesn’t even do that, the coward gets that moron Kerry to travel lecturing the world. Then we have the British. The world finds it sickening. It’s safe to say, the British have zero credibility on the world stage. You’re increasingly losing influence. What little you have is rapidly vanishing into insignificance. Standing there on your moral high ground as you face your own criminal prosecution charges for torture in Iraq recently submitted to the Hague. You liberal left wing hypocritcal fasicists.

      As an Israeli I now despise the UK and this rank hypocrisy levelled. Putin was right all along. Your hypocrisy is infuriating. At least he’s taken clear aggressive steps to protect his national interests and sovereignty direct on his borders and kudos to him. Clear steps to stand up to Western liberal fascists, extremists. China also thinks the same. I was in China recently increasingly being welcomed as an Israeli as a Jew. The Chinese have a deep respect for Israel and Jews. The way we stand up for our identity, pride and interests. The way we pride education and intellect. Call it Positive Semitism, the antidote to your Anti semitism. They despise your lecturing and hypocrisy the way Israelis do, the way Indians do, the way Brazilians do, the way Russians do, the way China does, the way Africa does. Western hypocritcal left wing liberal fascism. The world is sick of you not Israel.

      As an Israeli I have more respect for Iranians and our Arab ISETTFs. (Iranian Sponsored Extremists Thugs, Terrorists Fascists) than left wing liberals sat lecturing the world in both America, the UK & Europe.

      Oh and that $3billion the US gives Israel in military aid, 70% of that gets spent right back on US defense contracts. Israel is the defacto R&D superpower of the world advancing US interests, so get your facts straight.

      Left wing liberals, extremists, fascists, thugs can go to hell. We’re patiently waiting to finish off ISETTFs on our borders and watch with keen interest how Putin does it.

      If Europeans and Americans are happy to lay down and die like dogs then so be it, lie down and die with your mouths shut.

      It is your time that’s coming to an end and it couldn’t come soon enough.

      Israelis and Jews are smart enough to survive, we’ve being doing it for 3,000 years. Today we’re a global hi-tech superpower and we wont be stopping anytime soon.

      Google Israel’s prowess/might for R&D, Energytech, Defense, Strategy, Cybertech, Hitech, Cleantech, Agritech, Biotech, Nanotech, Watech on and on. Nations are knocking at our door to do business.

      Israel will do as Israel sees fit from this moment on.

  • Rocksy

    I don’t concern myself with the left wing nuts who cry ‘apartheid’. They have their own corrupt agenda.
    It’s the otherwise well meaning and generally decent population who see Israel this way that irritate and anger me. We have the BBC to thank for this.

    • harmlessdrudge

      Actually, Israel’s behaviour is responsible for the perception.

      • global city

        No it’s not. If immoral standards was the cue for the reaction then the bullshitters would place Israel well down their list of concerns….way behind most Arab countries for a start, but they don’t.

      • Rabbi Burns

        Perhaps Israel should adopt the same policy towards its Arab minority that the Arab states adopted towards their Jewish minorities – all of whom were in those lands before the muslim conquest. If three are no arabs in Israel and the territories there can be no arab terrorism and therefore no Israeli counter-terrorism – or as you pit it, “behaviour”.

        • chrismoyler

          No Rabbi Burns, I have thought about this issue a lot. Israel was never intended to be solely for the Jews. Israel brought a lot of non-Jews with her from Egypt, and there are many commandments in Torah which specify the humane and fair treatment of all foreigners.
          This humane treatment of foreigners is a profound demonstration to the whole world of the superiority of Biblical Judaism to any other religious system. It stands in massive contrast to the extreme Judenrein policy of Saudi Arabia, the quintessential Islamic state- a policy which is duplicated across the whole whole whenever Radical Islam is in the ascendancy.
          Never forget, that in God’s covenant with Abraham, he was told that he would be the father not just of the Jews, but of MANY nations. This is why the presence of ethnic minorities within the Nation of Israel is so very important. It is the perpetual demonstration to the world, albeit in imperfect form, of the character of the One who first called Israel into being.
          What Israel must now do is shake off her slumber and possess her historic homeland, rejecting this utter madness of the two state solution. In this regard, Caroline Glick’s latest book “The Israeli Solution” is, I believe, worthy of serious consideration.

          • Rabbi Burns

            I agree 100%. The problem is that within that mixed multitude are terrorist beasts and when those beasts are killed or captured, foreign beasts complain. To those foreign beasts I ask, should Israel treat the Arabs like the Arabs treat Israel. Of course Israel should not – otherwise it would just be another “Arab” state.

          • John Kinory

            Many brain-addled far-lefties have never heard of a terrorist or other psychopathic mass-murderer they didn’t have wet dreams about: IRA, PLO, Hamas, Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhoff, Guevara, Mao, Lenin – to these narcissistic idiots, all of them are admirable.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Many lefties? How many? The ones I know are all addicted to parties and centralism, and don’t approve of armed groups substituting for party activity (the tail wagging the dog). They call the IRA, the PLO, and ANC and so on bourgeois nationalists. And they’re against terror as an act of desperation that tries to by-pass the need to build a workers’ organisation. If there’s ever been a left wing group that approved the spoilt anarchists of the Baader Meinhoff, I’d be very surprised.

          • John Kinory

            Maybe it depends on your definition. But I didn’t say lefties, I said far-lefties. And I didn’t say ‘group’. I am thinking of dumb eternal student types, tossers like Andy Slaughter (who has wet dreams about Hamas), that sort of idiot.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I confess, I didn’t know who Andy Slaughter is. I’ve just looked him up. He’s a Labour MP who went on an all-party delegation to Gaza, and he has referred briefly in the Guardian to the blockade. Does this really make him a far-left admirer of mass murderers? I admire your energy, but I wouldn’t waste my spleen on someone as minor league as this.

          • John Kinory

            And you think you know all about it after all of 5 seconds of research? Do me a favour. We are talking about the shadow justice secretary regularly attending shindigs where reps of thinly-disguised front organisations for terrorist organisations are the guest speakers.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I know nothing about him whatever, as I admitted. You might have told me what you know and saved me the bother of reading a misleading article. You might know things about him that are not published anywhere. But what you tell me about him does not add up to a portrait of a far-leftist. At most, I’d call him a ‘useful idiot’.

          • John Kinory

            The one does not conflict with t’other.
            I never claimed to provide a detailed portrait of the man. I mentioned him as an example.
            Harry’s Place is a good source of information on Jew-haters of all stripes, amply and thoroughly documented. I think there is a search function.

          • chrismoyler

            Thank you Rabbi Burns. In a democracy there is a fine line between freedom of speech and subversion of the state. In the West, we seem to have become so preoccupied with individual liberty, that we seem to have forgotten anything about duty to our country. This is actually the fruit of secular humanism, where the abandonment of any notion of submission to a higher authority becomes the norm.
            In the end Israel must, I believe, face the fact that she is not just another Western style nation. She has an absolutely unique identity and calling, unlike any other nation on earth. This means that until she feels after and finds her true Jewish centre, she will never have the courage to stand up to the radicals in her midst who would destroy her from within.
            Therefore the issue of Israel’s identity, has to rooted deeply in the One who called her into being. I am very optimistic about this. Even though all looks very shaky at present, I return continually to Torah for strength. I particularly love Moses’ song at the end of Deuteronomy. As you know well, the entire history of the Jewish people is there. At the end, the song concludes, “He will cleanse the land and his people.”
            It is therefore absolutely certain, that Israel will one day be fully restored to faith in the One True God. Those who understand this will work towards that goal, no matter how rocky the path, understanding that the persuasion of YHWH is always superior to, and ultimately triumphant over the. false God of Allah.
            Shalom to all who love Israel.

        • Dr.Stephen Avrington

          I am now firmly of the belief after studying Islam and Islamic history intensely for the past dozen years that your Rabbi Sforno was entirely right regarding the blunt logic and proven realities haunting the Jew with regards to his highly informed interpretation of Numbers 33:53! Such a shame Israel and the Jews didn’t take his knowledge seriously in June ’67.

  • James Allen

    What an objectionable headline, f*ckface….

  • wally

    Excellent analysis. In addition, the UK has never come to grips with the fact the Jews beat them militarily nor that the UK tried their level best to stop Israel from being birthed.

    • Tom M

      “…UK tried their level best to stop Israel from being birthed.” I think you would need to explain why you said that.

    • john

      Utter nonsense. In the 1918-1945 period, the British repeatedly failed to control Zionist immigration to Israel. They also repeatedly broke committments to the Arab population and allowed the Jewish immegrants to strengthen their position. Finally, the Brits cut and ran after WWII rather than maintain control over the situation in Palestine.

      • John Kinory

        More ignorant bollocks. The British stopped Jewish immigration in direct contravention of their duties under the Mandate.

        • john

          Totally wrong. Wikipedia:
          “The Jewish population of Palestine of less than 8 percent of the population in 1918 were encouraged to immigrate, buy land, organize a militia, set up a shadow government in waiting and form the nucleus of a future Jewish state under the protection of the British army which suppressed a major Arab uprising from 1936 to 1939”

          • John Kinory

            Still ignorant bollocks. Read up on the White Paper.

          • john

            Every analysis I have ever read of the British Mandate period makes it clear that The British wavered between controlling Jewish immigration and letting it happen.
            Overall, the British (as the population data make clear) supported Jewish immigration over the interests of the indiginous population.

          • John Kinory

            The Jews ARE indigenous. Except to ignorant Jew-haters, of course.
            You are neatly ducking the White Paper points. Very impressive. But then, what can we expect from an ignorant Jew-hater who thinks that Wikipedia is a reliable historical source …

          • john

            You’re strong on committment but weak on facts.

          • John Kinory

            Completely vice versa, as is only to be expected from an ignorant Jew-hater. I mentioned the White Paper. You keep ignoring this crucial fact. And of course the fact that the Jews are indigenous to their own country (do you even know what ‘indigenous’ means?).
            You probably don’t even realise that your ignorance and deranged Jew-hatred are a source of mirth to all the serious posters here.

          • john

            John. Your angry language is quite inappropriate.
            The British Government set up a number of Commissions White Papers etc during the Mandate. The issue is: Did the Britsih Government allow substantial Jewish immigration over the 1918 – 1939 period? The answer is unambiguously yes.

          • John Kinory

            I am not angry. I am laughing at the eternal unholy trinity of ignorant=Jew-hater=stupid.
            Read up on the 1939 White Paper. You might learn something, although I doubt it: your mind is closed and blinkered, as all your posts make only too plain.

          • Daidragon

            Laughable. Israelis are largely Yank, Russian and European immigrants. Certainly not indigenous unless you dredge up some old testament bullshit. Hiding behind the anti semite card is also risible.

          • John Kinory

            Well, your utter ignorance about the make up of Israel’s Jewish population certainly is risible. Not surprising, of course, seeing as how you are quite obviously another swivel-eyed Jew-hater.

          • Daidragon

            I suspect you think anyone who disagrees with you is a Jew hater. It’s very convenient.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Oh, come on. We can all agree about facts and still disagree about the solution. This doesn’t make your opponent a jew-hater (and even if he was, is that just the end of the discussion?)

            If I read about the MacDonald white paper on Wikipedia, I suspect you’d think Wikipedia was just fine. And are all present-day Israelis indigenous to Israel, just by virtue of being Jewish? With a stronger claim than anyone else?

            As you will know, both the Arabs and the Jews of Palestine repudiated the white paper. It is true that the British attempted to block Jewish immigration throughout the war and afterwards – but was this for antisemitic reasons? Or because a decision had been made to back a Palestinian state? The two positions are not equivalent.

          • John Kinory

            You are objecting to someone else’s position, not mine. The posters I was calling Jew-haters did NOT agree with me about the facts: for example, they were saying that the Jews are not indigenous to Israel. The Jewish nation most certainly is. Only a Jew-hater would dispute this.
            Furthermore, when a poster drips such obvious visceral bilious hate, you don’t need a sixth sense to know what and who he is. You don’t see such shrieking bile hurled at regimes such as China, or Syria, do you?
            Wikipedia isn’t ‘just fine’ merely for listing the MacDonald white paper. It is written by all and sundry, and its supposedly historical articles (not only about Israel) are notorious for being politicised and full of (both deliberate and ignorant) mistakes).
            The British did not “attempt to block Jewish immigration throughout the war and afterwards” – they mostly succeeded. We can wonder about the reasons, but this was in breach of its obligations under the LoN Mandate.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I meant that even if we all agreed on the facts, that would not be enough to secure agreement. We could still dispute what to do about the facts.

            As for the british blockade – I am inviting you to speculate about the reasons; was it more than a principled decision to support an Arab state? In ignoring the question, you have zoomed in on the offending word ‘attempt’. This same attention to the language rather than the content of a post has led you to over-interpret John’s remarks as anti-semitic. His word ‘indigenous’ really does not carry the charge you have attributed to it. It is possible to think that the British treated the Arabs shabbily without being a jew hater or a shrieker of bile.

            As for Syria – we judge Israel as an outpost of Europe, and the controversy has gone on since 1947 (and longer). Syria simply does not loom as large in the European imagination, it was not founded by or in opposition to the British, there is no group with a rival claim to it, there is no Arabist call for Return to Syria…there are just no comparisons with the Israeli situation. China is even more remote from European political history, and for chauvinistic reasons we don’t expect it to adhere to democracy or human rights norms.

            I

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      This might be true as historical fact, but not one Brit in a hundred could tell you when Israel was founded, or the role the British played. I seriously doubt that British diffidence about Israel is based on any kind of race memory. Ireland, India, Rhodesia, Hong Kong…it’s all been forgotten.

  • elle909

    its obama who gave the tone not for hating Israel as much but for the “not being exceptional ”
    and that is what Israel is identified by in comparison to other western counties
    Exceptional do to its mostly jewish population .

  • Baron

    Who hates Israel? We? Moi?

    You speak for yourself, Brendan.

  • Magnus Sandvik

    I think you’ve got it quite wrong. The 2 reasons most of my politically interested friends are down on Israel are firstly the constant hypocrisy. They claim to be a modern, western-style democracy and part of the world community, but they have consistently violated treaties, overreacted to terrorist incidents (the US is also guilty of this), keep expanding settlements with a rhetoric more aggressive than anything Putin has said about Crimea and most damningly keep insisting that Israel be a jewish state which essentially relegates all other faiths and races to second-class status, creating an apartheid regime in all but name, something that most westerners find to be a disgusting thought.
    Second is that rhetoric from Israeli politicians make it quite clear that western support is not appreciated any more, but expected. To the tune that if we have even mild disagreements over policy, the debate is escalated and often falls victim to Godwin’s law whenever the Holocaust is mentioned as it so frequently is. You can only play on a nation’s guilty conscience for so long until it becomes an annoyance, and Israel passed that point about 15 years ago. An occasional “Thank you” or a sign of gratitude or, dare I say it, regret would do wonders for our opinion.
    As it is, Israel is become more like a petulant, spoiled teenager who throws his plate at the wall when he doesn’t get his favorite dinner while refusing to do anything to make his situation better other than screaming at others. And you can only put up with someone like that for so long.

    • O’Chamberlain LordO’PinkLines

      No Magnus I think you have it wrong you arrogant SoB.

      Democracy and freedom must be fought for. Neither come by default. Especially in a rough neighborhood intent on your sole destruction.

      Trust me you arrogant little shit, we’re not losing sleep over your liberal left wing hypocritical agendas, you’ve now been completely exposed. I see you as the enemy.

    • Penny

      Perhaps ask your politically interested friends which treaties Israel has violated. Also ask them which settlements have grown beyond their designated perimeters.

      As for the rest of your first paragraph I’m not so sure your friends are as politically astute – or even balanced – as they may believe themselves to be.

      The Holocaust is a very wide lesson and I would suggest the context you frame your comment in is exceedingly narrow.

    • geronimoooo4

      you want a ‘thank you’?????

      for what?
      for telling Israelis how to live??
      for having the audacity to judge a country, when all it does day in and day out is only in protection of its’ existence??

      you should thank Israel!
      Thank them for your technology, for your medicine, for your armies’ weapons, for your hospital equipment, for your entertainment, for your agricultural breakthroughs, etc

      clown

      • uberwest

        Surely if we had killed your ancestors, you wouldn’t exist?

        By the way, most of the West allied against the Nazis, just in case that’s who you’re referring to.

        • Guest

          fuck you

    • allymax bruce

      I never thought I’d say this, Magnus, but I agree with what you have said.

  • Cyril Sneer

    “loathed by almost every Westerner who considers himself decent”

    Not by me and many many others.

    Sadly I don’t subscribe to the anti-semitic BBC propaganda on Israel.

    Israel is the shining jewel of democracy and decency in a sea of Islamic totalitarian mud.

  • Cyril Sneer

    If the far left hates Israel, then Israel must be good.

  • Joseph Bloch

    I think it’s a misnomer to say “Americans do not like us.” The American _people_, by and large, do like and support Israel. It’s the current American _administration_ that is anti-Israel. I don’t even think it falls down on party lines, because most Democratic administrations have supported Israel in the past.

  • Freda Bothwell

    The biggest problem Israel is the biased BBC and parts of he press. The BBC distorts reports which often amounts to support for Arab terrorists and glee when Israel suffers a set back. It is powerful because not as many people read newspapers and are shown truth.

    • bwims

      When will wee see the Balen report?

      • Freda Bothwell

        Another BBC deceit

    • Daidragon

      Dear Me. All the news outlets in the west present the same basic pro Israeli propaganda, including the BBC. They are more impartial than Sky/Fox but that’s the best you can say about it.

      • John Kinory

        Straight from Planet Cuckoo.

      • Freda Bothwell

        The BBC is blatantly left wing as even those within the BBC have said.They are stuffed with ex Labour politicians and some rabid activists. They are forever interviewing failed Labour politicians as if they were the font of all wise knowledge. They have deceived us by carrying out an ‘internal report’ Called the Balen report to investigate claims that they were anti – Israel. The results have never been released and the BBC has spent about £300,00 in trying to supress it.Why? if it clears them of bias and hate? WHY?

  • geronimoooo4

    From where I’m sitting, it looks as if Israel is doing pretty f***ing well, all things considered.
    Meanwhile most Europeans countries, are doing pretty f***ing shitty!

    So who should listen to whom and who should take an example from whom?

    Hm?

  • callmeisaac

    Israel is very popular in the US, probably way more popular than the UK.

  • callmeisaac

    Also in reading about the deficiencies of Malaysia I wonder why you tools don’t cover the world like you cover 8 million poor souls trying to survive in an unfriendly dysfunctional neighbourhood. There are many note people in SE Asia with many more problems and dysfunctional societies. Go cover them you dumb prat.

    • Freda Bothwell

      Off subject.

  • allymax bruce

    Brendon, you’re not allowed to use the word Zionism; you’ll be called hate-names for that. Obviously, Brendon, I’m using satire to convey a realism.
    In many countries, taunting someone as a ‘hater’, of any kind, is itself a hate-crime.

  • Andrew

    BDSMers like the ones below lash out with their stale talking points and historical myths, because everything Israel is and the success it gains from it refutes every belief and promise the Left as a Political movement has made to them about the world.

  • Augustus

    When Israel declared its independence in 1948 Its first task was to absorb, not only the survivors of the Nazi regime throughout Europe, but also those who were forced to flee Arab nations in the wake of the war forced upon it. Anti-Semitism has always been a problem for the Jews, and probably always will be. The ultimate form of anti-Semitism today is, of course, the threat of the Iranian regime to destroy Israel. Israel has more than earned its right to exist as a wholly Jewish state.

    Unfortunately, Western culture has, throughout the ages, created a very unpleasant separate area for Jews. For centuries the Jew was often portrayed as both dangerous and despicable, as the carrier of evil, and various figures of speech were used to exploit these ideas – in particular the blood libel, according to which the Jews used the blood of Christian children for their terrible ceremonies. The diaspora Jews have indeed been treated appallingly throughout much of history. Perhaps, as Tolstoy noted, ‘we often hate people in proportion to the injustices which we have done them.’

    • john

      Israel has (hundreds?) of nuclear weapons. Iran none. Please explain the threat.

      • Penny

        The threat lies in the words of Rafsanjani – you could perhaps look them up but to paraphrase, he claims (correctly, I’d imagine) that as Israel is so tiny it would take just a few nuclear missiles to raze it to the ground. Conversely, Israel does not have the capability to do likewise to the much larger country of Iran. Remember, Iran does not see Israel as the Great Satan – that’s us and America. Israel is the Little Satan, but it’s in Iran’s neck of the woods and tiny enough to deal with as a first step,

        I’ve come across some supporters of the Palestinians who seem supportive of Iran’s nuclear program simply because it troubles Israel. This, to my mind doesn’t suggest much genuine support for Palestinians. No nuclear missile that I’m aware of is so specialised as to detect and avoid harming Palestinians while zeroing in on Israelis. The Palestinians would either be equally decimated or severely impacted by an Iranian strike on Israel.

        • john

          Nobody threatens like Netanyahu.
          Also, nobody dies as a result of a threat.
          I like your view that a few nuclear bombs dropped on Iran won’t be such a big deal.
          BTW Iran doesn’t need nuclear weapons to defeat Israel – there are less dramatic options available.

          • Penny

            John – you need to re-read my comment. It isn’t my view that a few nuclear bombs dropped on Iran won’t be such a big deal this is Rafsanjani’s view. This is what he has said.

            Netanyahu is responding to this type of rhetoric from Rafsanjani et al. Many countries have also responded and levelled sanctions on Iran because they do take the threat seriously.

            What “less dramatic” options would you have in mind? Iran isn’t next door to Israel. It can’t march armies across countries to engage Israel in combat.

          • john

            Israel is a very small country and non-ballistic missiles would do the job so the less dramatic option would be to supply more powerful weapons and missiles to Hezbollah/Gaza etc

          • Penny

            You need to tell this to the Iranians John, not me. I’m not the one issuing threats to erase Israel from the map.

          • john

            Israel threatens Iran with military action at every opportunity.
            Unlike Iran, it has a wealth of American firepower to deliver on its threats.
            NB Netanyahu has been claiming that Iran is a nuclear threat since 1992.

          • Penny

            I’m not going to continue arguing with you over this, John, because I don’t think you’ve got a decent grasp on the facts. You have your bogeyman in Netanyahu and Israel and I think narratives that fit with this view will be preferable to you.

          • john

            OK, let’s beg to differ. I certainly don’t like Netanyahu but does anybody? Having studied and followed the Israel/Palestine question for over 50 years and having worked extensively in the Middle East, I think I have a reasonable grasp of the facts.

          • geronimoooo4

            you don’t like Netanyahu?

            SO WHAT?

            Israelis leaders are not supposed to be LIKED, they are supposed to protect Israeli citizens, and it looks like he’s doing the job.

          • Penny

            It’s the cult of personality, geronimoooo4. “Liking” that nice Mr So-and-so (and probably his wife) seems adequate to the vote.

            On the night Obama won his second term elections I recall even the BBC beaming and waxing lyrical about Michelle’s frock and hairstyle. Quite bizarre.

          • geronimoooo4

            ah yes, those amazingly liked and respected politicians, whose wives show muscular upper arms, while they show weakness and incompetence….

            what’s not to like?

          • dabney_c

            That’s what John doesn’t like about him.

          • Penny

            Yes, probably best. With regard to your working in the ME, well, so did I. I married into a family who come from the region and who had a wealth of cultural insights and experiences to offer. Even so, it didn’t make them experts on every nuance of every society. Nor of every law and convention.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            What your exchange with John demonstrates is that disagreements about the middle east are not based on possession or ignorance of facts; it’s a question of what to do about them.

          • al-kafir al-yahudi

            Apparently you don’t, if you think Netanyahu is the master-threatener, considering the violent rhetoric spewed by Iran since 2004.

          • John Kinory

            “Having studied and followed the Israel/Palestine question for over 50 years and having worked extensively in the Middle East, I think I have a reasonable grasp of the facts”
            LOL. I needed the laugh.

          • geronimoooo4

            Israel has previously destroyed nuclear facilities in Syria, Egypt and Iraq.
            Now, at the time, your ilk was obviously very hysterical, but imagine those nukes in the hands of the ‘rebels’ in Syria who gassed and ate people?? Or in the hands of the MB in Egypt…

            You see, Israel is always proven right. Because if there is one thing you can count on it’s that eventually muslims will be doing some indiscriminate killing.
            Israel has saved countless MUSLIM lives, they should be thanked. Instead, idiots like you, contradict themselves with this entire nuke-drama.

            If you really cared about muslim lives, you’d INSIST on only Israelis possessing nukes, since they have been proven responsible with them – even though they could have used them 100 times already!

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            If you’re referring to Ahmadinejad’s remark, what he said in Farsi meant something like ‘wipe Israel from the map/page of history.’ This would not need physical destruction – even a two-state solution might accomplish this much.

          • Penny

            As mentioned, Iran has been subjected to a number of sanctions by the West indicating that it is hardly the Israelis alone who find the Iranian nuclear program problematic.

            You can find alternative interpretations if you prefer but it seems clear enough from Friday prayers alone – to say nothing of videos released – that Israel, along with the USA and UK, are the focus of Iranian leaders’ sabre-rattling. The ordinary Iranian people perhaps not so much.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The sanctions for nuclear reasons started in 2007; the icing on a cake that was first baked in 1979. And yet Iran is nonetheless allowed under international treaty to import enriched uranium for domestic use, and its facilities have been inspected hundreds of times. If it was such a pariah, all this would have come to a stop. I am quite sure that Iran’s leaders and politicised imams enjoy winding up the west and projecting a threatening image, but realistically…And you would probably agree that the UN has not always acted impartially – for example, exaggerating the threat of Iraqi chemical weapons.

          • Penny

            You’re rather sure the Iranians are merely “winding up” the West. Or that they choose to project a “threatening image”.
            Even if this were the case it hardly indicates a stable regime at the helm of Iranian foreign policy.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Indeed, the regime is not stable. There are at least eight wings of the Iranian political class, and they dislike each other more than they dislike outsiders. Ahmadinejad was regarded as a clown by all of them, but he got elected and had to serve out his term. It was only foreign commentators that turned him into a credible bogeyman.

          • Bobloblaw67

            Netanyahu hasn’t said a sitting member state at the UN has no right to exist. You suffer from the same self hatred and moral equivalency that infect western leftists.

          • Daidragon

            You lecture on moral equivalency yet focus on the rhetoric of an ex politician while ignoring Israel’s warmongering, ignoring of UN resolutions, nuclear arsenal, constant bombing of it’s neighbours, assassination programme against scientists and Zionist state building on land that doesn’t belong to them. Silly boy.

          • al-kafir al-yahudi

            Israel’s govt didn’t start threatening Iran until AFTER violent threats of annihilation from Iran under the Ahmadinejad administration. Iran would regularly say that “Israel is a cancer that needs to be excised” and other descriptive threats. Just the other day, an Iranian general said “Our finger is the on the trigger to destroy Israel”. After dozens of threats like this, Israel reserves to right to say “he will get you back”. Why is it that that constant Iranian threats go “unnoticed” but Netanyahu saying “we won’t let you destroy us” is somehow saber-rattling?

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          It might be true that only a few bombs would destroy Israel – if a bomb existed. Perhaps the Iranians even mean to build one. But at the moment they don’t even have a complete nuclear fuel cycle. Rafsanjani plays to a home audience – just like Hillary Clinton saying she’d ‘attack’ Iran to save Israel. It suits a faction of the Iranian regime to utter occasional threats (implying that their opponents are soft on ‘zionism’), and it suits a faction of the Israeli regime to pretend to believe them.

          • Penny

            The response to the Iranian nuclear program is not limited to “factions of the Israeli regime”. It has had a much wider impact.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            You are right, in recent years the apprehension has become more widespread, though it’s still expressed most often by Likud-Beteinu. I still think it’s manufactured; or rather, it’s based more on opposition to US-Iran rapprochement than any sincere belief that the Iranians want a bomb.

          • Penny

            Just as well you’re not in government, Jeffrey! Laissez-faire approaches to threats – to say nothing of the actualities of Iranian support for terrorist organisations and activities – are not, in my view, terribly wise.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The other approach does not have very much to commend it, if it comes to that. Both of us had better not seek election. I think that flinching at rhetoric, and moral outrage about words, strike me as a grand distraction for statesmen.

            Iran is hardly unique in sponsoring terrorists. Likud’s claims about an Iranian bomb always seem to be put forward when the party needs a smokescreen for some other crisis, and until now have been ignored by the rest of the world. For their own cynical reasons, the UN and the EU and NATO are now pretending to take them seriously.

          • Penny

            But words and rhetoric matter, Jeffrey. Unless you’re of the opinion that that which emanates from only certain countries should be taken seriously – and I think you’d be on rather dodgy ground if that were so.

            Perhaps cast your mind back over the 20th century. Rhetoric was very often followed up by action. Some of it quite insane.

            And I’ll repeat – it isn’t merely the West that is taking Iranian threats seriously.

            You mention Likud but the threats made have history beyond the current incumbents. Rafsanjani, for example, made an…..interesting….. speech in 2001.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            Rafsanjani said that Israel was so small in comparison to Iran that that Iran would survive an attack on it (at least as reported by Leslie Susser – I haven’t been able to trace the occasion – I point this out, because journalistic and official translations are often quite approximate, even mischievous). But where is the attack? Where are the means for an attack? I think the notion of clear and present danger is useful here. The rhetoric of the 30s *if this is what you are referring to* was backed up by actual violence, bodies, deportations, camps. Likening the cynical posturing of Iranian politicians to the smooth machine of nazi persecutions cheapens the holocaust and exaggerates the current threat. We have become so easy to provoke that naturally politicians take advantage, gratified by an international media response out of all proportion to the actual importance of the source. In this sense, I say that rhetoric does NOT matter.

            It might have occurred to you that there has to be a rogue state in the middle east for western countries to hold a mirror to. For a long time it was Iran. Then Libya. Then Iraq. Now Iran again. For a while it looked as if Syria might become viewed as the great destabiliser…but that’s being held in reserve for the time being. I think the threat from Iranian nukes is about as credible as the threat from Iraqi biological weapons.

          • Penny

            Rafsanjani said rather more than that, Jeffrey. I have to go out in 10mins so don’t have time to go into this particular speech but it wasn’t exclusively about Israel.

            Actually, I wasn’t referring to the Nazis, although that is one quite awful example. I was thinking of several other countries – Cambodia and Uganda for a start. If you take a moment to think about the worlds’ troubles over the 20th century I’d suggest that there was always a sign or two along the way that leaders were saying what they meant.

            Sanctions were imposed against Iran. Talks took place and some were lifted. If Iran was not a problem I really don’t think the sanctions would have existed and I really can’t see the logic of Iran coming to the table and doing a deal if they had no case to answer. That would be a rather ludicrous move. Whether or not the Geneva talks will prove fruitful remains to be seen.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            You are very trusting about international powerbroking and UN talks. You don’t think it suited the Iranians to pretend they held this card? The UN has made all kinds of resolutions that subsequently get called into question (including some about the Israeli settlements, and some about Iraqi weapons).

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            There was not much in the way of bodies, violence, or deportation in the ’30s. There were some camps, mainly for political opponents, who were interned but not routinely killed. More disturbing was (or should have been) the rhetoric, the re-arming (in contravention of Versailles), and the underlying political ideology.

            When the violence started, with the blackmail of Czechoslovakia, it was too late to do anything about it short of starting a European war. In the 30’s, the problem could have been dealt with relatively easily, but the political will wasn’t there.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The re-arming happened with the active collaboration of the British. This was a real development that they chose to assist, or (as with the camps) to ignore. A Britain that was content to witness these events was not likely to get worked up about ideology or rhetoric, which it would (rightly in my view) relegate to a secondary position. In any case, Iran in 2014 is not interwar Germany. It is not the major regional industrial power, smarting after a recent defeat, with the sympathies of the victor, itching to expand, with an ambitious nationalist manufacturing class, and a state that had recently seen off a serious attempt at revolution (thereby breaking the opposition). There are simply no parallels that I can see.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            No parallels? None at all? What about, say, the Persian Empires of antiquity and the middle ages, compared to the First Reich? A sense of unfairly lost history, rather than just a recent defeat? What about the Revolutionary Guards and Basij, a private army loyal exclusively to the Supreme Leader, compared to the S.A. and S.S.?

            Who is the major regional industrial power? If you say Israel, I say Britain. What strength do you see in the Iranian opposition?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I’d be surprised if the Imams look to pre-Islamic empires for their inspiration. True, Safavid Iran more recently encompassed Iraq and Afghanistan and parts of central asia and India, but do the current leaders dream of acquiring it back.? Iran is hardly unique in its elite corps answerable to the leader; the presidential guard in Egypt, and the ottoman janissaries to take two other examples. The Iranian opposition is poltiically weak, and you remind me that it was wiped out in the 80s and early 90s, so there is a kind of analogy; but the German revolutionaries had played no part in bringing the nazis to power (unlike the mistake of the Iranian left), so the parallel is not exact. The hired hands at Friday prayers, who stream out of selected mosques to chant Down with Israel, seem to have no wider appeal – Iranians en masse are not preoccupied by Israel, though ignorance about European history is widespread; come to that, most Europeans probably know nothing about the Ottomans or the Shah or the British Mandate.

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            I’m not completely sure about the Imams (though I think you mean Ayatollahs; ‘Imam’ has a very specific meaning within Shi’a Islam) but Darius and Cyrus continue to be very popular Persian names. Foreign Minister Zarif recently tweeted an inscription from Xerxes, so pre-Islamic history is not taboo.

            The Egyptian Presidential Guard or the Jannisaries are, to my mind, more like the Praetorian Guard or the Secret Service, dedicated to protecting the leader and the regime, whereas the examples I mentioned are more like private armies dedicated to instilling and disseminating the leader’s political and ideological objectives at home and abroad. The ‘Cult of the Leader’ is another disturbing common element, for his minions are loyal to him in the political, rather than the military, sense.

            I agree that Iranians en masse are not preoccupied with Israel, any more than Germans en masse were, in the ’30’s, preoccupied with Britain, but that doesn’t mean things can’t get dangerous. I would guess that the masses are standing on the sidelines, watching the confrontation between the Revolution and the West, waiting to put their money on the winning horse.

      • Lamia

        Israel has (hundreds?) of nuclear weapons. Iran none.

        And it’s just as well for everyone in the Middle East and the world that the imbalance is that way, not the other way round.

        • john

          You haven’t explained the threat!

          • Bobloblaw67

            No you’re just too stupid not to see it.

          • john

            No need for petulence. Again, why is Israel with (an estimated) 200+ nuclear weapons threatened by Iran with none?

          • geronimoooo4

            because Israelis aren’t currently running around the ME killing everybody in sight, gassing and eating them!

            you can give a responsible chef a set of knives, but you’d be a fool to give them to mentally unstable psychopaths who attack their own families

          • al-kafir al-yahudi

            Because Iran wants to get just 1 or 2 bombs, and a successful deployment of these would be fatal to Israel as a country and people. Israel possessing 100 nuclear warheads won’t stop Iranian missiles. Israel could possess 1000000 warheads…that doesn’t mean it’s impervious. Mutually-assured-destruction will not stop the apocalyptic religious leaders of Iran from their pursuit of a world without Jews.

          • geronimoooo4

            i said from the start that this guy is mentally challenged

          • Lamia

            The threat is that Iran is seeking to build nuclear weapons and its leaders are raving holocaust-denying anti-semites pledged to destroying.

            Obviously, as a raving anti-semite yourself, you see that not as a threat but as something to be longed for.

      • Bobloblaw67

        Because Israel hasn’t threatened to use them to make a people become extinct. Duh.

      • geronimoooo4

        Israel would be stupid NOT to have them,considering what they’re surrounded by

      • Coleridge1

        the threat is blindingly obvious. The former ‘moderate’ Iranian president Rafsanjani said Iran can absorb 10 nuclear hits, Israel would be destroyed by just one. Ahmadenejad routinely vowed to destroy Israel. The Iranian Foreign Ministry hung a banner outside its Tehran building for 5 years promising that ‘Israel will be destroyed.’ Why exactly are the Iranians building nuclear facilities embedded in mountains? To generate electricity for their vibrators perhaps?

        • DixT

          Israel will NEVER be destroyed! They might get “damaged,” but will NEVER be destroyed.

        • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

          They tried solar powered vibrators, did not work under the burka, nuclear is the next best

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            pubic louse?

        • Daidragon

          ‘Why exactly are the Iranians building nuclear facilities embedded in mountains?’

          To stop the Israelis bombing them obviously.

          • geronimoooo4

            yes, because until now the poor Iranians have been bombed by Israel countless times….

          • Heiliger Lakewooder

            No, but the Iraqis and Syrians have… The Iranians may be evil, but they’re not stupid. Going the long route with uranium enrichment rather than plutonium reprocessing has served them well, so far.

      • Augustus

        For 35 years ‘death to America’ and ‘death to Israel ‘ have been the main pillars of Iranian foreign policy. and the Islamic Republic hasn’t changed its stance one iota. Only this week, Brigadier General Hossein Salami, a senior commander in Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, made the following statement: “Today we can destroy every spot which is under the Zionist regime’s control with any volume of fire power that we want right from here (Tehran). Islam has given us this wish, capacity and power to destroy the Zionist regime so that our hands will remain on the trigger from 1,400km away for the day when such an incident takes place.”

        Without those death threats there’d be a giant void in all the speeches of imams and others. What other messages serving the Islamic revolution would they have to offer? Without those death threats the whole revolutionary zeal would begin to evaporate.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          ‘Marg bar Israel’ in Farsi literally means Death to Israel, but to Iranian ears it only signifies ‘Down with…’ It has no more force than students chanting ‘Maggie out’ when they should be at lectures. And the posturing of Salami is ridiculous. It suits Iran to project this threatening image, but if they really had this capacity the US and Israel would have knocked it out long ago.

      • nopeacenow

        The Iranians would use nuclear weapons to destroy Israel. They have said so many times.

        • Daidragon

          Liar.

      • DixT

        Surely you are not so naive that you believe Iran has no nuclear weapons???????

      • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

        john, a typical American pseudonym used by a barely literate person not capable of capitalizing his own name. The rest of your message, johnny, is irrelevant, all you had to say you did by posting your name

  • marco

    Great Article. Lion in Zion!! God Bless Israel.

  • flexdream

    ” [Israel is] loathed by almost every Westerner who considers himself decent” … what a stupid comment. Most people I know are decent Westerners and either admire Israel or are indifferent. Doesn’t mean you can’t have sympathy for the Palestinians either. I’m sure there are Westerners who “loath” Israel, but so far as I know I’ve never met one.

    • Bobloblaw67

      I think “decent” should be in quotes.

    • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

      You can have your pick of Israel loathers, no quotation marks, on these page

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      The difficulty with what you (and several other contributors) have written along these lines is that the Israeli authorities in the article believe that there is widespread loathing; and on other blogs, you can read claims about the wave of ‘respectable’ antisemitism among European liberals. Some posters are so convinced this is true that they report emigration plans by a large proportion of France’s Jews.

  • Dan_Simon

    I’m always surprised when everyone skips over what is probably the major and most blatantly obvious root of anti-Israel feeling around the world: anti-Americanism. I’d venture to guess that if you measured the global correlation between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-American sentiment, it’d be very close to perfect (even in America, I might add). The “Great Satan” being too big and powerful to be challenged directly, its haters prefer to target various “Little Satans” instead. Hence the out-of-proportion serial demonizing of a long sequence of America’s most vulnerable allies–South Vietnam, post-Allende Chile, Apartheid-era South Africa, El Salvador/Guatemala, Egypt (both pre- and post-Muslim Brotherhood) and so on–since at least the 1960s. Israel is merely next in line.

  • AlgorithmicAnalyst

    Lots of people in USA like Israel.

  • Michael Green

    As an Israeli living in London – let me tell you that right now Israel is slowly but surely going downhill as a democracy (perhaps in order to counterbalance the movement to democracy in the region so as to maintain some cosmic state of virtually non-democratic mid-east?). Nationalism of the wrong ugly kind is now mainstream. Those who were the ones to suffer unimaginable suffering from extreme nationalism are not turning into Nazis, no. But you can become pretty bad without venturing into total evil, right?

    As Obama said when he came into office (remember those days of hope) – a true friend has to tell the truth ‘to the face’ (sounds better in Hebrew). Right now, telling Israel firmly exactly what it’s doing wrong is not an act of hatred. Certainly not an act of anti-Semitism (and of course not likely to do with the self-hating used-to-be nationalist European expressed in this article. I mean come on – must you come up with pseudo-psychological explanations when a simpler one is at hand?). It’s the right thing to do for any person who cares Israel, it’s long-term chances of survival and its inhabitants quality of living.

    • nopeacenow

      Obama and Kerry want to blame Israel for all of the problems in the ME and the lace of settlement of the Israel-Palestinian conflict. It is a lot easier to blame Israel and obtain concessions from a democratic Israel than a dictatorship whose leader is in the tenth year of his four year term. Who knows if Abbas even speaks for the Palestinians. He is too afraid to call an election because he know he would lose. Abbas is 79 years old with no successor in sight. Whatever paper he signs will have no effect on any subsequent leader. On those conditions would you give up land to the Abbas led Palestinians?

      • DixT

        Abbas just got a “challenger” for the upcoming elections! It will now be interesting to see how it goes!

        • nopeacenow

          Haven’t heard that but it will be interesting to see if he lives that long. Same holds true for any Palestinian leader. A new leader will not bring peace if he is of the same mind as the old leader.

    • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

      “perhaps in order to counterbalance the movement to democracy in the region………..” You live too long in that cursed country, Michael. Are you getting your information from El-Jazeera, perhaps also moved up a day attending religious services (just in case it is too heavy for you now, I mean at the neighborhood mosque)?

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      It’s not antisemitism…and it’s not for the reasons in the article…so what is the real reason?

  • Roy

    It’s become PC that is the reason. The BBC have made it known they are not on the side of Israel. Everyone watches the dreadful politics led by the BBC. Is it no wonder the truth of the matter has been lost, and Britain now stands with the rogue states, daring not to mention any proof to the contrary.

    • DixT

      And the Muslim communities have DESTROYED the UK, because of the UK’s “guilt,” and loathing of themselves!

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Everyone thinks the BBC is biased against them; pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, Pro-Russia, Pro-Ukraine. BBC reporting is often not very strong on facts or local expertise (in which case it should stick to moral debate) and the journalists can come across as students with no memory going back more than a year or two, but conscious bias?

  • HS

    The thing is, if Jews were true to themselves, we would be much less capitalist, much less “Western”, and much more popular among “enlightened” Europeans and Americans.
    We are an indigenous people living in our native land, trying to preserve our culture and heritage against cultural and physical occupation and imperialism. If anything, our cause should be championed by the Left and and scorned by the Right.

    • PeteCW

      ‘If anything, our cause should be championed by the Left and and scorned by the Right.’

      It used to be until the left wing intellectual elite gave up on the white working class and began fetishising anyone with brown skin and (excitedly) turning a blind eye to anti-Semitism, misogyny and killing homosexuals. They then have to go along with whatever madness comes out of those communities to hold onto the votes and the little influence they have.

      Unfortunately (and ironically given the horrors of the past) Jews have been declared hyper-white and thus the enemy of all ‘right-thinking progressive anti-imperialists’.

  • Colonel Mustard

    ” . . . loathed by almost every Westerner who considers himself decent”

    Preposterous. But consistent with the creeping quasi-religious “morality” that is seeking to transform dissenters into heretics and burn them at the stake (so to speak).

  • Harvela

    We loathe it because we loathe ourselves ‘
    How true . One of the best sign off sentences I’ve ever read . Quiet devastating in its simplicity

  • brian2907

    I’m one who came from “a boring bit of Britain” to Israel (mainly for positive reasons but also because I was a little fed up with receiving slights ranging from the mildly offensive ‘Jew boy’ to the robust ‘get back to Israel you dirty f***ing Jew’). Europeans prefer their Jews safely dead as victims so they can express sympathy. It’s not part of the game plan for Jews to fight back and certainly not to give their enemies a bloody nose. Israel can be infuriating at times but I don’t have to worry that I’m going to meet an antisemite today.

  • Sick of being Argie

    Excellent and true.

  • Rob Barasch

    I think there’s one other aspect to it. Good Europeans are consciously or subconsiosly guilt ridden by there colonial history and the wealth it created and from whkich they still benefit. They cant travel back in time to protest their granparents and greatparents rolor scilence in the subjegation of Africa and Asia qnd dont want to pay the price for fixing Europe’s historical wrongs so, why not fall back and Europe’s tried and true sution to its feelings of guilt – blame the Jews. Yes, Israel does bad things and Palestinians suffer under occupation but those same Palestiians and their Arab bretheren tried to annihilate Israel before it was born, ethnically cleansed every Jew they conqured in 48 (fortunately, besides the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem’s old city, only a few Jewish kibbutzim fell) tried to annihilate Israel in 67 and see nothing wrong with blowing up our busses and restaurants. Occupation you say? Where are the protests against Turkey’s occupation of Cyprus, Morraco’s occupation of the Sahara? Etc….

    • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

      Absolutely, they hate us because we remind them, even if we ignore them, of their ugly black history.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      I suspect you can think of several answers to this. No great power presided over the partition of Cyprus (although British policy had set the two sides against each other), Turks had lived there since at least the 16th century, the Greek administration they displaced had no-one’s support, the Greeks themselves were at loggerheads, Turkey is not viewed as a first world power or an outpost of Europe, Cyprus has no strategic importance, and although atrocities were committed by both sides in 1974, and internal displacement continues, there is no denial of anyone’s right to live on the island.

      Conflicts are not equivalent – there might be excellent reasons for protesting about one rather than another, and this need not arise from suspicious motives.

  • Bobloblaw67

    “”We loathe it because we loathe ourselves.”””

    Taaadaaaa. Here is the answer. It is also why euro weenies hate the usa.

  • Bobloblaw67

    Notice Poland is less jew hating that the Uk? The author is correct. Poland does not suffer from self hatred like Western Europe has.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      You are joking, aren’t you? Casual antisemitism is much more common in Poland than Britain.

  • Dahn Hiuni

    the real reason brits hate israelis is because brits know we’re better than them in every way. their empire is gone and we are succeeding and excelling in every way. they are white and pasty and boring and we are tanned and sexy and fun.

    • uberwest

      And you wouldn’t have a clue what ‘ethnic supremacism’ is at all would you?

      • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

        You would be the expert, ja, Uberschwein?

        • uberwest

          I’m not claiming that the British are better than anyone, particularly, simpleton.

          • geronimoooo4

            no, you just blame millions of muslim fanatics invading the UK, on 1 jewish woman, Professor!

          • uberwest

            I can’t allow the likes of you and your shrieking hysterical cronies to waste any more of my valuable time.

  • Bobloblaw67

    The problem in the UK is that the British believe in nothing except climate change. They don’t have Christianity, they are ashamed of their culture and history. At least the French still believe in their culture and language. The world is an immeasurably better place thanks to the British Empire but the British are too brain washed to admit it.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      I think this is a common fallacy; WE don’t have any culture, but THEY do – culture begins to foreigners. Really, the average French person eats TV dinners and shops in a supermarket. Alienation and anomie are at the same level as in small-town America.

  • John Hawkins Totnes

    Nothing much has changed since Queen Esther’s time.

  • Coleridge1

    I’ve got to say that I am skeptical about this. The last US poll showed a massive 77% support for Israel. The figures are similar in Canada, Australia and India.
    Every European state now has a Moslem settler population of about 10%. Many of whom are fanatical Jew-haters and supporters of regimes such as the Pakistani apartheid state. Exclude these maniacs and the figures level.
    Who in their right minds would prefer Islamist Gay-hanging, women-stoning Moslem regimes to that of liberal-democratic Israel.

    • nopeacenow

      Women and gays are leading the anti-Israel parade. Go figure. There is no way they are going to live in Muslim countries.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        Is that the choice? Stop criticising Israel or live in Iran? It reminds me of the Get Back to Russia argument – ‘You wouldn’t be allowed to go on strike there!’

        Perhaps the republicans in the English civil war should have packed up and gone home, on the grounds that absolutist France was far worse.

        • nopeacenow

          I’m not saying you can’t criticize Israel. Just don’t hold Israel to a different standard than you hold other countries. What I am saying is that women and gays can live relatively comfortable lives in Israel that would be impossible in Muslim countries.

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            In reality, we do make distinctions, don’t we? We hold Israel to the standard of European countries. We don’t treat Syria as an outpost of Europe. It’s entirely coherent for a gay man to have humanitarian impulses that lead him to criticise Israel, because he’s not being asked which country he’d rather live in. British gay men might ‘objectively’ be better off in Denmark or the Netherlands, or even some cities of Muslim Tunisia/Turkey/Morocco if their sexuality was the only grounds for a decision, but they don’t emigrate en masse because being gay isn’t the only facet of their personalities.

          • nopeacenow

            The tell me why gays and women support do not support Israel over the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims. That does not make sense. What I have found is that many people who are anti-Israel are not pro-Palestinian and could care less what happens to the Palestinians. What is there in the Palestinian cause to support? The Arabs already control over 99% of the land in the ME but they require the rest of it. Why do gays and women have a problem with a small Jewish state trying to defend themselves against neighbors seeking their destruction?

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            The arguments about Palestine have been rehearsed over and over, and you must be familiar with them. The fact that ‘Arabs’ live all over the middle east is neither here nor there. You might as well ask why, since French speakers live in the whole of France, Belgians and Swiss and Luxembourgers claim extra territory outside it. If there is really no Palestinian cause, it is hard to explain the persistent claims of the Palestinians themselves.

            I don’t suppose that gays and women are protesting because they are gay and female. They campaign about Israel and just happen to be gay etc. I’ve seen Jewish Lesbian banners with the star of David on marches in London, so there are several tribes within all these movements.

  • pdhan

    “Dromi has a striking theory as to why our governments are now so sniffy about his ‘shitty little country’…”

    No Dromi has a highly unoriginal far right conspiracy theory.

    And btw, if you’re met by the same question everywhere you go it actually looks like Israelis DO care a little bit about what people think of them, no?

    • Man deVoshkes

      I do not give a hoot about what you think you arrogant Brit, you probaly have a little dick and an unsatisfied wife to complete the picture

      • pdhan

        The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

      • Freda Bothwell

        What an evil posting. is he talking about himself?

  • sardindukurup

    “When all caulumnies have benn refuted, ………all false notions rejected….”antipathy will remain irrefutable”.M Goldstein.

  • Picquet

    I feel more inclined to emigrate to Israel than ever. Principle; it’s great.

    • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

      see you there soon

  • victor67

    The problem with Israel is it was created 100 years too late. In the mid 19th century the sort of violence and ethnic cleansing needed to create Israel was widely accepted as the norm.
    Its ironic that Jewish philosophers in the early part of the 20th century were influential in making these kind of acts unacceptable. With Israel the gripe always comes back to the enormity of the consequences of creating a Jewish state on land inhabited by others.

    • nopeacenow

      Jews have inhabited the land for thousands of years. The Arabs are newcomers. They cannot share anything. 99% of the ME is not enough for the Arabs. They have to have it all and rule over all others.

      • victor67

        Over one million Arab Palestinians inhabited mandate Palestine in 1948. Ben Gurion new immigration alone would not ensue a Jewish state so what was to be done? The majority had to go .
        Many posters have extolled the virtues of modern Israel but it still cannot face its past.

        • nopeacenow

          There was room for everyone but the Arabs decreed the Jews had to go. On many occasions the Arabs were offered a state of their own but were not interested. Only to remove the Jews and Jewish state.
          Israel has nothing to be ashamed of. It offers sanctuary to displaced Jews from all over the world as it did to the 900,000 that were thrown out of Arab lands after the 1948 and 1967 wars.

        • Augustus

          It should be Britain that cannot face its past, and its subsequent sabotage of its Mandatory undertaking to resettle the whole of Palestine (including Transjordan) with the Jews under an international treaty obligation in 1922: “Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.(League of Nations, 1922)

          This meant that Palestine from the start (i.e. soon after WW1) was legally a Jewish state in theory that was to be guided towards independence by a mandatory or trustee, and who would take the necessary political, administrative and economic measures to establish the Jewish National Home.

          Melanie Phillips puts it rather well: “It is a fallacy of our time that the State of Israel was created merely to assuage European guilt over the Holocaust, thus giving a country to the Jews which had belonged to the Arabs – a fallacy which helps fuel the venomous hatred of Israel now so prevalent in Britain.”

          • victor67

            Its an interesting concept that lands belongs to a group of people. Both Arabs and Jews inhabited Mandate Palestine and I am sure the Arabs felt somewhat threatened by the levels of immigration of Jews in the 1940s.
            The Zionists also were not coy about their desires . How would you feel if a group of people were pushing a policy of mass immigration and advocating a policy of partitioning your land(At Best) or creating their own state?

          • Augustus

            The Treaty of Versailles of 1919 stated flatly, in Article 22, that the states which formerly governed those territories which were subsequently administered by a Mandatory had lost their sovereignty as a consequence of WWI. That meant that Germany no longer had sovereignty over its former colonies in Africa and the Pacific, while Turkey no longer had sovereignty over its possessions in the Middle East. These territories were then placed in the collective hands of the Principal Allied Powers for their disposition. In the case of Palestine, that decision was made in favour of the Jewish people at the San Remo Peace Conference that took place in 1920, when the Balfour Declaration was adopted as the reason for creating and administering the new country of Palestine that, (and this is the really crucial point) until then had had no official independent existence. The whole Palestinian territory had been subject to Turkish Ottoman Empire rule. You say, with obvious disdain, that ‘the Zionists were not coy about their desires’. Theodor Herzl, the founder of the Zionist Organization, and later Zionists were certainly not coy about their motives to resettle Jewish people in their original homeland. Why should they have been? Furthermore, as part of the post-WWI global settlement, the Arabs had in fact received most of the lands formerly under Turkish sovereignty in the Middle East.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        I think this is the flip-side of the myth that all Israelis come from Brooklyn. People speaking languages related to modern Arabic have lived in (modern) Israel for thousands of years. Judaism was the mass religion of the region in post-roman times, and it’s highly likely that the founders of Islam were breakaway Jews. Arab identity is younger than Jewish identity…perhaps. I think it’s arguable that both reached their current form in the early 20th century,

    • DixT

      If you were to understand the number of Arabs in “Palestine” in 1948, you would understand that there were relatively FEW, compared to the number today! Most of the people known as “Palestinians” today, came from Jordan.

      • victor67

        Oh dear you are still clinging to the land without a people fiction. There were well over One million Arabs in mandate Palestine and 750 Thousand were removed to create the Jewish state.
        There is still a huge chunk of Israeli society that cannot bare to face this. They even ban the Palestinian narrative (Nakba) being taught in their history curriculum .

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        An Israeli student explained to me that the Palestinians actually come from Egypt. There seems to be a consensus that Palestinians were bussed in from somewhere else, but no agreement about where that was.

  • Rabbi Burns

    Nice to read an article like this in a British publication for a change. Maybe we Brits can start to emulate Israel and make our country great again.

  • Philassie

    Actually, the reason anti-Israel sentiment has grown so much is the concerted campaign of anti-Israel invective posing as human rights that has flooded Western universities since Edward Said’s “Orientalism” fraud. The propaganda is very adept at capitalizing on heuristics and exploiting natural compassion through lies and distortions and manipulative imagery. Westerners who have long abandoned libraries for shopping malls are too dumb to notice. It’s propaganda, which has a receptive audience in Europe, a continent still heavily marred by anti-Jewish stereotyping and, frankly, an abject lack of moral courage.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Not one person in a hundred has read Said or heard of him. And the campaigns over Palestine etc did not begin in 1977 with the publication of his book. Even if Said was the source of pro-Palestinian sentiment, this is not a book of anti-Jewish stereotypes. Intellectuals have nothing like the power that you ascribe to them. On another blog, someone seriously tried to link the crisis in the western family to the writings of Gramsci…I ask you.

  • http://endefensadeisrael.wordpress.com/ Sergio סרחיו

    I agree with most parts of this article. Liberal scum hates Israel because it is a proud state that takes care of itself. Many in the right-wing admire Israel because of that liberals hate.

    Shabbat Shalom and Happy Purim.

  • http://longhornproject.org/ Robin Rosenblatt

    You travel from Egypt to Israel the first thing you notice, It is clean.

  • balance_and_reason

    They have been a bit naughty steeling all the arab land; and not saying sorry.

    • geronimoooo4

      oh yes, and by looking at a map of the middle east, you can clearly see how much arab land those naughty Israelis have stolen…….

  • balance_and_reason

    sorry ‘stealing!’

  • alex

    The answer to the author’s question may be summed up in one word that is conspicuously absent from this article: Palestine.

    • Charlie in NY

      Which Palestine do you have in mind? Syria-Palestina, the Roman province that replaced the client-Kingdom of Judah after the second Jewish Revolt around 135AD? Some general geographic area? The area encompassed by the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, and if so, in which iteration? Originally, the territory encompassed modern day Israel, Jordan, Gaza, Judea and Samaria (those last two names were only replaced in 1950 when Jordan tried to annex its territorial gains after the 1948-49 war against Israel). In 1922, Britain as Mandate trustee simply hived off around 78% of the territory to create the Emirate of Transjordan. That rump territory of the Mandate now sometimes goes by the rather bizarre name of “Historic Palestine.” So which is it?
      And while you’re at it, you may recall that this particular Mandate recognized the territory as the historical homeland of the Jewish people and gave them the right, which still exists under international law, to closely settle the land. The Mandate’s aim, similar to the others set up by the League and which led to the creation of several Arab states, was to facilitate the creation of political entities to eventually allow for the reconstitution of a Jewish state.
      And before you respond, remember that Article 80 of the UN Charter expressly forbid the UN from altering any rights given under the League of Nations Mandate. That means that no UN resolution, whether from the Security Council or the General Assembly, can affect those rights. It goes without saying that any advisory opinion from any court similarly can have no effect.
      Finally, the Mandate’s requirement was that the civil and religious rights of non-Jews are to be respected. It is evident to any fair minded person that Israel has done just that. If you sincerely believe otherwise, then could you explain why Israeli-Arab communities objected so strenuously to the mere suggestion that their village might wind up on the State of Palestine side of any future border? If apartheid were truly so rampant and justice for Israeli-Arabs virtually unattainable in Israel, what must that say about their views of their brother Arabs? Then again, what must it say about the realities in the area?

      • alex

        Thank you Charlie,

        Your arguments are noted. They are certainly
        well worn ones, as are the retorts to them. I wasn’t taking sides, only
        observing the notable absence of a word that goes to the heart of many
        people’s concerns about the policies of the Israeli government. This
        does not equate to hating an entire people, nor denying their rights to
        statehood. Whilst I’m not overfond of Hegel, I think my position on this
        might be summed up by his theory of tragedy:

        “The original
        essence of tragedy consists then in the fact that within such a conflict
        each of the opposed sides, if taken by itself, has justification, while
        on the other hand each can establish the true and positive content of
        its own aim and character only by negating and
        damaging the equally
        justified power of the other. Consequently, in its moral life, and
        because of it, each is just as much involved in guilt.”

        • Charlie in NY

          Alex, my point on your use of the term “Palestine” was a plea for either precision or context. Far too often in these debates, words are used rather loosely and sometimes entirely detached from their usual meanings.
          Reading many of the comments, it becomes clear that many well-meaning people stake out positions based on emotional responses rather than on the reality (albeit necessarily filtered through media, so I use the term advisedly) of what has happened and is currently happening. As to the workings of international law, I am not at all certain what the retorts might be to the existence of actual documents (whether it be the League of Nations Mandate or the UN Charter, for instance) that are clearly expressed and binding – beyond, I suppose, the claim that time or events have passed them by which, of course is not a “retort” at all but a method of avoidance. Some things are simply not susceptible to a “he said-she said” type of disputation.
          I do agree that the situation in the Middle East is tragic, however, it is not uniquely so either historically or as one scans the world today. So, it must also be judged in that light, I think. Consequently, neither fairness nor morality requires that blame or guilt need to be equally apportioned nor that Israel (which, when you look back, managed against great odds to salvage less than a quarter of the land legally allocated to it in the face of genocidal intention, and I do mean to use that term because it does fit the situation if the Arab rhetoric from the 30s on is to be taken at face value) uniquely owes a do-over to a political group that did not even exist at the time but that continues to show every sign that it wishes it to vanish.
          It is all a terrible waste of life and opportunity principally for the Palestinians. After all, if Israel could in 65 years turn itself into what it is today, there is no reason to believe that the Palestinian Arabs could not create something similar – unless you believe there is something innate or cultural that creates an impassable barrier to similar achievements (and I don’t). Unfortunately, their leaders have placed their personal ambitions for power and wealth ahead of their duty to help their people create the independent political institutions needed for a truly civil society. We all know what the Palestinian Arabs are against, they have never articulated a realistic picture of what they are for – by which I mean one that does not call for the end of Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people.
          As a final irony (and end to my overlong musings), one could say that but for Israel’s successful defense of its existence, there would be no Palestinian national movement today. It is quite evident that the 1948-49 war was fought not to create any State of Palestine but for the surrounding Arab countries territorial aggrandizement. No Palestinian State was established between 1949 and 1967 when the entirety of what they claim they want was controlled by their Arab brethren. Had Israel lost in 1967, does anyone really believe that Egypt, Jordan and Syria would have handed over any of their conquest to the Palestinian Arabs?

      • DixT

        Arabs living and working in Israel have stated DISDAIN for Hamas, and the rockets Hamas lobs into Israel! I guess we could say those Arabs living and working in Israel “have seen the light.”

  • balance_and_reason

    Actually, I blame the Italians. They started all this.

  • petepetttywick

    The fact is, Israel is sneaky. Sorry, that will make some people furious. But, its true. Israel lies and manipulates and butts into OUR nation’s politics. We do NOT like Israel trying to forces US into doing THEIR dirty work! When we do, Americans die.

    The day IS here Israel…you DO stand alone! And, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

    • dabney_c

      Your grasp of reality is profound!

    • DixT

      Uh. . . . .I wouldn’t go that far! A little over half of the U.S. is on Israel’s side! And the U.S. has NEVER fought in ANY of Israel’s “wars”—Israel has ALWAYS fought their own wars, by themselves!

    • geronimoooo4

      LOOOOL

      uuhhhhhh, now Israel has been told…!

  • RCraigen

    “And increasingly, it isn’t only trendy leftists with Arafat posters in their bedrooms and keffiyehs around their necks who talk up boycotts against Israel. The US Secretary of State John Kerry has…”

    Wait a minute. What makes you think that Kerry isn’t a trendy leftist with an Arafat poster in his bedroom and a keffiyeh around his neck?

  • DixT

    GREAT article!

  • Wessex Man

    I haven’t read the article either but a country that was formed by terrorists, who along the way killed British Troops seem dodgy to me, why don’t we impose sanctions on the Israeli State? because they are our so called friends and a beacon of democracy in the Middle East, or so our politiciians say.

    Yet Russia with 70% of the population of Crimea of Russian stock is being treated as a pariah state, let them have their referendum and return to the Russian State that they were given away by in the 1950s.

    Let’s stop trying to act as a world policeman and get on with trying to rescue our country from the very same organisation that caused this current crisis, the EU!

  • robert Davis

    Israel is NOT hated it is subject to pressures from moslems and the left imperialists,both totalitarian regimes who wish to trample small nations’ rights in particular those who do NOT defend their rights. If Israel’s governments did defend their rights,claim SOVEREIGNTY over Western Palestine and expelled fake “palestinians” no one would despise little Israel,nor pressure its government to give up its territory and scuttle its nation! That is what they do to cowards who appear as weak! Why are old people more subject to attack by hooligans than strong young men?This diagnostic is wrong,they do not face hate but COWARDICE. If their treatment was against political cowardice instead of imaginary hate they would find the right answers and would not be’ targets any longer!

  • uberwest

    I was a supporter of Israel, but then I noticed a particular phenomenon neatly encapsulated in this story:

    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Danny-Danon-Send-African-migrants-to-Australia

    • Charlie in NY

      I read that 2011 article about dealing with the influx of African migrants who illegally enter Israel from Sinai looking for work (the article indicates the UN considers only a small percentage to be refugees). The article highlights a proposal made directly to a visiting Australian MP to introduce a bill in the Australian Parliament to have Australia act as their final destination, a request as to which the MP was apparently agreeable. I really don’t understand how this episode turned you away from supporting Israel. Had the story been that the migrants were being forcibly deported back into Egypt, that might be a different issue.
      You do know that when it comes to entry by foreigners, every country maintains plenary control over its borders, there is no right of entry. And if you don’t think the issue of illegal immigrants into the US is not a hot button issue here, then you have not been paying attention. In fact, even mass deportation gets mentioned by some politicians on both sides of the aisle, in the face of the logistical impossibility of deporting, according to some estimates, some 12 million people. Do you really mean to hold Israel to a different and higher standard in dealing with illegal aliens than applies to every other country on Earth?

      • uberwest

        The phenomenon I refer to is that on the one hand, Israel proclaims it’s right to remain, ethnically and religiously, a majority Jewish state. Yet Jews in western countries are, in the majority, pro immigration and pro multiculturalism.

        • Raw England

          Fair point, UberWest. And one definitely worthy of discussion.

        • Charlie in NY

          I suppose if Israel had the landmass on population of those countries, the Israeli government might act differently. However, it must deal with the realities it actually faces, while those like us who live a safe distance away and in vastly different circumstances have the luxury of taking a more Olympian view of things. I am not certain what point you are really trying to make about “Jews in western countries” beyond suggesting that they may be to the left of the majorities. Just look how how European countries, especially around the Mediterranean, deal with illegal African migrants – it would appear much more brutal and cold-hearted than anything Israel has done.
          But my overall question remains, against what standard are you judging Israel? As to the underlying issue of economic migration, what realistic (meaning having any hope of broad popular support) policies should the more economically robust countries adopt to deal with the lack of economic opportunity that creates these types of migrations?
          BTW, being Jewish is not an ethnicity, since you can convert to the religion. It is most easily understood, of course, as being a religion (Judaism) but the Jews also self-identify as a “nation” (the idea of a Jewish people is as old as the Bible and continues on to today).
          Finally, Israel has been internationally recognized, as a matter of international law going back to the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, as the national homeland of the Jews that should be reconstituted. Since all countries have the absolute and unfettered right to control their borders, Israel is exercising a right common to the rest of the international community – so what really is the issue on that score and, again, against what standard are you judging things?

          • uberwest

            I could theoretically, to jump on a plane to Israel, claiming refuge from persecution. Once I were granted citizenship, I could immediately start campaigning for more immigration, multiculturalism, and immigrant rights, even though I knew it was against the will of the Israelis. It would be, like the transfer of African migrants from Israel to Australia, grotesquely hypocritical, and this is effectively what so many of England’s Jewish politicians and media heavyweights have done.

            So I no longer support Israel. Why should the Jews have a homeland when so many English Jews work to deny the ethnic English their own? Nor do I hate it or wish for it’s destruction. It is just another country, as far as I’m concerned. No more important to me personally than Tibet or Ukraine, to pick a couple of random examples,

          • Charlie in NY

            First of all, your theoretical fact pattern is unrealistic. You would need to prove at some point that you are in fact seeking “refuge from persecution.” As I gather you are from the UK, I cannot see any possible way for you to succeed. So lets assume that you immigrate to Israel and achieve citizenship under its normal rules, you would be free to advocate precisely as you wish. And don’t think for a moment that you would be alone in your quest. Many Israelis, though clearly not a majority, share your liberalism.
            Second, as there was no transfer of immigrants to Australia, any more than there has been a mass deportation of illegals from the US. What you call grotesque hypocrisy is really the working out of divergent views peacefully – which is what is supposed to happen in democracies.
            Your final point about English Jewish “politicians and media heavyweights” (whatever that last is supposed to mean) is something that, quite frankly, I don’t follow. It appears to be a non-sequitur – but obviously I am missing something.
            In your second paragraph, I guess the first question that comes to mind is “what is an ethnic Englishman?”
            As I try to tease out your real point, it now seems that your actual objection is that English Jews are too liberal for your taste in matters of immigration and multi-culturalism.
            The conclusion I draw from your comment is that you no longer support Israel because non-Israeli Jews are not more like Israelis. Am I missing something?
            BTW, Tibet is not a country (having been incorporated against the will of the Tibetans into China in 1959) and Ukraine, sadly, is in the process of becoming a reduced one.

          • uberwest

            As I gather you are from the UK, I cannot see any possible way for you to succeed.

            Or you could use your imagination. The EU or UK could turn into a liberal fascist hell hole, whereby expressing scepticism of immigration / multiculturalism could threaten your livelihood. That’s not too far from the current situation.

            you would be free to advocate precisely as you wish.

            May be so, but it would be a slap in the face of the Israelis to do so, knowing that Israel was created as a homeland for the Jewish people.

            Second, as there was no transfer of immigrants to Australia

            Glad to hear that the Australian government didn’t fall for the scam. Good for them.

            What you call grotesque hypocrisy is really the working out of divergent views peacefully

            In YOUR view it’s the working out of divergent views peacefully. In my view the Israeli government shouldn’t have tried to offload their problem onto another western government in the first place, and the Australian MP who so enthusiastically proposed it to the Australian Parliament should be removed from office.

            “what is an ethnic Englishman?”

            They would be the people who lived in England before immigration started in 1948 and their descendants. Are you going to tell me that no such people exist?

          • Charlie in NY

            I think the EU and UK are still pretty far from becoming “liberal fascist hell hole[s]” and you don’t seem to give credit to your fellow citizens democratic instincts. I assume you are politically engaged, and if not then you should be. As to anything being a “slap in the face of the Israelis” I think you are also selling them pretty short, and they are far from the monolith your comment makes them out to be. From the article, it is not clear to me that Ayalon’s suggestion to the Australian MP represented any Israeli government policy. If you know anything about him in particular or how the Israeli political system works, you would not have jumped to that conclusion. Finally, as to who is an ethnic Englishman, your definition is not particularly helpful to me as England being a maritime country always had immigrants (even before the influx of Normans in 1066). If by setting your sights on 1948, then I assume you mean that an ethnic Englishman can have European ancestors, just not anyone from its former colonial possessions. What influence “Jewish politicians and media heavyweights” play in UK’s immigration policies is a mystery to me, but given their number I cannot imagine it is decisive. At any rate, if it is something the UK population is against, then they should use their power at the ballot box and effect any necessary change.

          • uberwest

            It doesn’t surprise me that you would seek to deny the English any claim to be a distinct ethnic group. You don’t even make the distinction between hostile invading forces and immigrants, although having lived in Bradford for some time I can see that there might be cause for confusion with that issue.

            Suffice it to say that the number of immigrants / invaders / colonisers was always small compared to the numbers of English / British on the islands at the time, and there are no Huguenot ghettos as far as I am aware, The last significant invasion before 1948 was by the Normans, almost a thousand years ago.

            I think the EU and UK are still pretty far from becoming “liberal fascist hell hole[s]

            Try telling that to Tommy Robinson.

          • Charlie in NY

            If you remember my response to you initial comment, I took exception to your view that being Jewish was an ethnicity, principally because anyone can convert into Judaism, and you could be from anywhere in the world and be Jewish. We may simply be using the same word to mean different things. For what it may be worth, I read a scientific article that posited that the baseline of what you call an ethnic Englishman suggests a Basque provenance. Ultimately, I think that through the centuries we are all pretty mixed, and maybe mixed up as well, and so speaking of ethnicities is not the best way to state things.
            I think that perhaps what you mean by ethnic Englishman is a shared belief in the continuing importance of certain cultural values and institutions. But if that is the case, it really isn’t about how you look but in what you believe. Perhaps my views on the issue are informed from the US historical experience, because we are a self-conscious nation of immigrants and believe (in different degrees) in the metaphor of the “melting pot.” If you are born here or otherwise become a citizen, no matter where your parents came from or what you look like, you are an American.

          • uberwest

            I think that perhaps what you mean by ethnic Englishman is a shared belief in the continuing importance of certain cultural values and institutions.

            No, that is not what I mean, an ethnic Englishman has ancestral ties to the country going back hundreds of years. An immigrant can share those values (and I respect immigrants who do share those values) but that does not make them ethnically English.

            The US has a completely different perspective to immigration than England. England was an advanced culture long before the recent waves of immigration started. Immigration has made this country unquestionably worse. The US was not an advanced culture before the waves of European immigration started six hundred years ago. Immigration has definitely made the US a far superior country. The difference between the two countries’ experience of immigration can be partly explained by the kind of people making up the immigrant community, but also the people who were the indigenous population.

          • Charlie in NY

            I think we have found some common ground on the issue and importance of sharing and respecting your country of residence’s values and institutions. While I understand now your definition of ethnic Englishman, which appears close to a bloodline relation, I have to wonder how many such people actually exist if you delve deeply into their genealogy. It is the case that over time, people tend to marry out, including with first or second generation immigrants – which is one way immigrants assimilate into the general culture. Also, how flexible is your “going back hundreds of years” requirement and must it be on both sides? By way of (cheeky) example, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha doesn’t qualify as ethnic English, but would his and Queen Victoria’s many progeny?
            I am not in entire agreement with your description of how things have gone in the US (as the US is nowhere near six hundred years old, I assume you meant the geographical area). However, that is a discussion that goes beyond anything relevant to this thread.

          • uberwest

            Well I did initially state that for me personally, anyone in the country before immigration started in 1948 would count as ethnic English, even if there were a few foreigners around at the time.

            It seems to me as though you’re trying to downplay the importance of ethnicity. Well, they tried that in Yugoslavia and what a mess that turned out to be. Look at what’s happening in Ukraine, the country is being split on ethnic lines.

            Ordinary people care about their ethnic brothers and sisters more, despite what socialist control freaks think about it. I think that if you claim that the ethnic English don’t exist, then no ethnic groups exist. Because even if there was a small amount of mixing between the English, Irish, Welsh and other Northern European ethnic groups, there would be less of that kind of mixing in the British Isles than other geographical areas of the world because Britain is a group of islands off the Western edge of Europe. Less through traffic so to speak.

            It is the case that over time, people tend to marry out,

            I dispute that, for the vast majority of British history at least, the population has been very stable and static, as people would tend to find partners and marry within the same towns or villages that they grew up in.

            We also have groups of immigrants who absolutely refuse to assimilate.

          • BradD99

            English Jews are not “working to deny the ethnic English” of anything.

            The people in England who are flooding England with Islamic immigrants who hate England aren’t Jews. They are Christians, Catholics, etc

            And your other reasoning is just plain idiotic as well.

            “Why should Jews have a homeland” is a moronic question. Go ask Arabs why Arabs should have homelands, or why the Japanese should have a homeland, or why Italians should have a homeland, etc.

          • uberwest

            English Jews are not “working to deny the ethnic English” of anything.

            Barbara Roche was instrumental in opening up the flood gates to millions of immigrants in 2000. She lies about the benefits of immigration to this day, even when her fellow lunatic Labour party colleagues concede that immigration was a disaster.

          • Charlie in NY

            Perhaps that is one reason why she eventually lost her seat. I don’ t follow your politics that closely to know one way or the other. On the other hand, it seems to me that no one minister sets policy, it is the Cabinet led by the Prime Minister, so I don’t know what you mean by her being “instrumental” other than she may have been in the Ministry in charge of implementing the new policies – which is not quite the same thing. On a final note, if most UK politicians agree that immigration is a disaster, what political steps are the parties taking to correct it? You do have a parliamentary democracy over there, after all.

          • jack

            In 1290, King Edward I issued an edict expelling all Jews from England. The expulsion edict remained in force for the rest of the Middle Ages. The edict was not an isolated incident, but the culmination of over 200 years of increased persecution. Oliver Cromwell permitted Jews to return to England in 1657, over 350 years since their banishment by Edward I. He did this in exchange for certain financial considerations. To the current day, the Jews of England offer a Prayer of thanksgiving to her most dread majesty the Queen, for her continued sufferance of their presence.

          • jack

            I think the English are totally justified to have their own immigration rules. And I think you have more then enough people crammed into that little island of yours. It must be quite crowded from all I hear. In fact you should encourage emigration not immigration.

          • uberwest

            So there’s no such thing as a Jewish atheist in your opinion?

            I daresay the ethnic Jews out number the converts substantially.

        • BradD99

          Arab countries remain Arab countries, yet Arabs also live elsewhere.
          Japan remains a Japanese country, yet the Japanese also live elsewhere.
          Muslim countries remain Muslim countries, yet Muslims also live elsewhere.
          Italy remains the Italian country, yet Italians also live elsewhere.
          Israel is the world’s only TINY Jewish country, yet Jews also live elsewhere.

    • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

      Love you “was a supporter of Israel”. We do not like people of weak mind and conviction. Guess Al-Jazeera is a more to your liking weekend reading/watching, Zieg Heil

      • uberwest

        does ‘deVoshkes’ translate to ‘of straw’ by any chance?

        • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

          Not even remotely, your brain is too weak, Jew-hate took over every one of the few brain cells you have

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          No: mandavoshka means public louse in Russian.

    • BradD99

      Go compare Israel to the lunatics that surround Israel (Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Islamic Jihad, etc) and then be smart and go back to supporting Israel.

  • Mikey the Innocent

    An excellent article that really does hit the nail on the head. They hate us because they hate themselves.

    But in listing Israel’s many achievements you ignore the most important and instructive fact of all.

    Jewish Israel (alone in the developed world) has one of the highest birth rates in the world. Not just Haredim (the ultra-religious) but secular Jews too. There are babies and children everywhere in the Land of Israel – from the poorest of areas to the wealthiest and most fashionable – and with it, love, laughter, continuity, family and a resilience that is simply unbreakable.

    And in Europe, what do you have? Lots of Mahommeds.

    I say this more in sadness than joy. Wake up!!!!

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      If I wrote that Israel had lots and lots of Noams, I suspect that my statement would not be regarded as simply a neutral fact.

      • Mikey the Innocent

        I am making the point that Europe is being Islamised.

        What precisely is your point?

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Babies are being born born to Muslim parents. They’re not all going to grow up as Muslims, let alone Islamists. Your post implies that Muslims per se are the problem (just as my fictive reply suggests that Jews themselves are a problem)

  • Edgar Davidson

    So Israel is one of the most hated nations in the world because it is too Western? Oh yes of course, why didn’t I ever think about that. Obviously it has nothing whatsoever to do with antisemitism. And, contrary to what Brendan wrote, Israel is NOT “funded by the US to the tune of $3 billion a year”. Much of the money is in the form of loans for military equipment that Israel buys from the US and also grants for research that directly benefits the US. A massive proportion at the moment is for Israel to pay for the Iron Dome system which is only needed because the Amercians will not allow Israel to address the source of the rocket attacks.

    This all reminds of David Cameron’s support for Israel:

    http://edgar1981.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/david-cameron-is-hypocrite-and-liar.html

    • haywardsward

      Below is just one of the many reports ssued by the Congressional Research Service, an adjunct to the Library of Congress that provides reports to members of Congress on a variety of topics relevant to current political events.

      http://www.opencrs.com/document/IB85066/2002-10-17%2000:00:00

      All of these reports start with this statement or a slight variation.

      “Israel is not economically self-sufficient, and relies on foreign assistance and borrowing to maintain its economy. Since 1985, the United States has provided $3 billion in grants annually to Israel. Since 1976, Israel has been the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance, and is the largest cumulative recipient since World War II. “

      So in fact , Israel would be a bankrupt state if not for the US$91 billion + it has received from 1949 to 2002 as CRS reports repeatedly show. This is reckoned to be a conservative figure! As it does not include aid forgiven and the interest foregone.

      And then there are all those tax deductible American-Israeli “foundations” like AIPAC that pour more millions into propping Israel up. So the American taxpayer pays yet again.

      • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

        Were Israeli financial dependence a problem, Netanyahu’s repeated efforts to wean Israel off the aid teat would make him a hero. That’s not exactly his western reputation.

        • haywardsward

          Well it is a problem for the USA.

          For it is country with a growing deficit and a mind
          boggling national debt both accumulated and/or caused by Republican
          Administrations dating back to Ronald Reagan.

          It would be good to wean Israel from its dependence
          on all forms of support finanical/military and quasi charitable which is provided by the taxpayers of the USA.

  • Hard Little Machine

    Quite right except even the reasons don’t matter. We don’t worry, well most of us at any rate, why a suicide bomber is a suicide bomber. Maybe mommy drank or an uncle touched you or you were weird in high school. Doesn’t matter and no one cares. Likewise we don’t care either why Europe hates Jews. It’s not our problem to put them on the couch to help them understand why they’re in love with genocide. Nor their efforts to outsource the next genocide to the Arabs. In a generation half of the last million Jews in Europe will be gone and in another generation Europe will finally get its 1000 year wish of being ethnically cleansed of Jews. Then they will be free not only to explain to everyone else why that’s a great thing for them and their world view but somehow is of course the fault of all the Jews who still live anywhere else.

  • Alex Steenkist

    Mabey because of Rothschild and his associates
    Have you pieced together the puzzle of
    missing flight 370 to Beijing China ??

    If not, here are your missing pieces.

    Patents
    Patents
    Patents

    Four days after the missing flight MH370 a patent is approved…
    by the Patent Office

    4 of the 5 Patent holders are Chinese employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Austin TX.

    Patent is divided up on 20% increments to 5 holders.

    Peidong Wang, Suzhou, China, (20%)
    Zhijun Chen, Suzhou, China, (20%)
    Zhihong Cheng, Suzhou, China, (20%)
    Li Ying, Suzhou, China, (20%)
    Freescale Semiconductor (20%)

    If a patent holder dies, then the remaining holders
    equally share the dividends of the deceased if not
    disputed in a will.

    If 4 of the 5 dies, then the remaining 1 Patent holder
    gets 100% of the wealth of the patent.

    That remaining live Patent holder is Freescale Semiconductor.

    Who owns Freescale Semiconductor ??

    Jacob Rothschild through Blackstone who owns Freescale.

    Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane.
    As all 4 Chinese members of the Patent were
    passengers on the missing plane.

    Patent holders can alter the proceeds legally by
    passing wealth to their heirs. However, they cannot
    do so until the Patent is approved. So when the plane
    went missing, the patent had not been approved.
    Thus, Rothschild gets 100% of Patent once Patent
    holders declared deceased

    • dabney_c

      Do you spend your whole life combing for any remote Jewish connection to every event that happens in the world? You must be a real hero at your monthly klan meetings.

    • Charlie in NY

      Your description of what happens to a deceased patent holder’s rights to his property is completely incorrect. Ownership of property passes through the deceased’s estate. It’s not like the Nobel Prize where you need to be alive to get it. If the described owner was a corporate entity in which they each have an equal interest, then ownership resides in the company and what happens to the interest of the deceased depends entirely on the company’s operating agreement.
      Either way, that must be some valuable patent that no one has ever heard of. Too bad you don’t describe what it does. You really need to stop personalizing these things. It might help avoid spouting such nonsense for all the world to see.

    • BradD99

      What Alex Steenkist is trying to say is, he’s insane.

    • jack

      AA HA!! So the JEWS DONE IT AGAIN. Who would have thunk it.

    • geronimoooo4

      oh look:

      there’s a cloud above the twin towers that looks like a star of david!

      LOOOOOL
      be careful for those zionists under your bed

  • joecooling

    It may be related to the fact that Israel threatens to destroy its neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.

    • dabney_c

      Yeah, that would be true if it were true. Does it tell you anything that Saudi Arabia has not armed itself with nukes all this time that Israel has had them … but said it will build them as soon as Iran gets them?

      • Man deVoshkes

        Admire your optimism, dabney_c, but you should be aware that you are trying to convince a typical moron (aka joecooling, a typical American Joe Shmo)

      • joecooling
        • dabney_c

          *shock* – your hero is a nutter!

          “[Juan] Cole is an anti-Israel and anti-American extremist, and his extremism prevented him from getting a job offer from Yale a few years back. He is probably best known for his professing beliefs in grand Jewish conspiracies. He tosses around the term “Zionofascists” when he means “Jews.” He led the pro-Saddam lobby and is a Hamas apologist. He loves to spread anti-Jewish blood libels. He is bosom buddies with Neo-Nazi anti-Semitic conspiracist nuts, like Justin Raimondo (who claims the Jews and not al-Qaeda were behind the 9-11 attacks on the US). … ”
          http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/steven-plaut/juan-cole%E2%80%99s-map-of-lies/

      • joecooling

        Just because you don’t know the truth doesn’t make the truth a lie it only proves your ignorance. I quoted a source. There are many more instances of these nuclear threats

        • dabney_c

          Ok, sweetie. You keep telling yourself that Israel is the real danger in the world and Iran is a big ol’ fluffy puppy we should all be snuggling with. Let’s see how that goes.

    • BradD99

      Except, Israel doesn’t threaten its neighbors with mass destruction.

      Israel’s neighbors have tried to destroy Israel, repeatedly.

      Another Israel-basher turns out to be a liar. Go figure.

    • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

      Threats in geopolitics are sometimes best measured by the reaction that they provoke.

      Saudi Arabia was willing to live under the shadow of Israeli nukes for decades without doing something about it. Tehran’s nukes prompted a different set of reactions and the Saudis have apparently bought a nuclear capability from Pakistan. It’s sitting there, a plane ride away, just waiting to be picked up when Iran makes its announcement that it has nuclear weapons.

      • joecooling

        I’m completely for a world without nukes. I would have no problem setting the example. With over 300 million guns and production at an all time high USA in quite fortified.

        • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

          Good luck unringing that bell. It’s possible, kind of like the tokugawa shogunate unrung the bell by getting rid of guns. I suspect that you don’t have a stomach strong enough for that kind of work.

          • joecooling

            Somebody has to have the balls to stand up against the status quo. Though unpopular it is the right thing to do and the right thing to do will eventually be the popular thing to do.

          • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

            You aren’t very familiar with what happened in Tokugawa Japan, are you? The samurai right to kill anybody on the spot extrajudicially was the backbone of the effort. If you find that the right thing to do, you’re a moral monster.

          • joecooling

            Look you twat, I was talking about getting rid of Nukes. I may be a moral monster for that but I will wear that label with pride. I

          • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

            Foul mouthed, ignorant, and stupid is no way to spout off about power politics. Unringing a technology bell is very hard. Most of the time when such a movement gets traction you get the good guys going along with the plan and the bad guys cheating. The net effect is assisting evil which is, well, evil.

            The bottom line is that the difficulty of making a nuclear weapon is static. It’s no harder to do in 2014 than it was in 1945 and it never will be. The power to calculate and design such a weapon is falling into the hands of smaller and smaller groups. Eventually, smart, determined individuals will be able to do it because we’ll routinely have robots capable of the work and cheap enough for the middle class to own.

            Even before that long-term problem really rolls out in all its full horror and accidental city loss, keeping the bad guys within their own borders is obviously a major challenge, coincidentally one that we’re failing pretty badly at. Absent nukes, things would be so much worse.

            You’re trading off the threat of a small number of future large corpse piles for the very likely reality of a larger number of small corpse piles as borders shift all over the globe. It’s a legitimate strategy but only if there’s some benefit at the end. The most likely end is that we get both bad outcomes, first the small wars of conquest and then renuclearization and large wars using them.

  • http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/ levi9909

    For all you say about Israel’s belief in borders, it doesn’t actually define its borders. It claims to be a state not for the population of the people within the borders it controls. it claims to be a state for the world’s Jews. You’ve managed to avoid any mention of the occupation, colonial settlement or ethnic cleansing. You can ask this ludicrous “why oh why?” question because you are in complete denial about Israel’s crimes and what exactly it is that people around the world find singularly repugnant about this illegitimate entity, The State of Israel. And of course many Israelis find the Jewish supremacist set-up repugnant too, so it’s not *Israelis* who are hated. Even your headline is a lie.

    • Charlie in NY

      Since borders cannot be set unilaterally, until Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian Arabs (in light of Jordan’s giving up any control over the territories lost in 1967) settle their differences with Israel, what you have are the armistice lines from 1949 and, for the Golan, 1973. There is a border with Egypt, needless to say. Of course, the UN had little problem confirming Israel’s retreat from all Lebanese territory and no one seriously claims that Israel is physically in Gaza. So, your first two sentences about lack of borders are a bit of a strawman.
      What Israel claims to be is a state in which non-Israeli Jews can find refuge should events warrant – something that was not available to them during the run up to WWII (though that was mostly thanks to the British who violated the terms of the Mandate by choking off Jewish immigration to placate the Arabs whom it wanted to keep quiet and avoid any strategic headache in its impending war against Germany).
      Issues of “occupation” and “colonial settlement” are labels with no actual content but bespeak a lack of historical understanding. The Mandate for Palestine enshrined as a matter of international law the right of Jews to settle throughout the Mandate territory (which originally included present day Israel, Gaza, Jordan, Samaria and Judea – these last two were the names used until 1950 when Jordan renamed the lands it conquered in 1948-49 and on which, incidentally, it never established a Palestinian state). So, strictly speaking, there is neither occupation nor colonial settlement. And before you respond, read Article 80 of the UN Charter before you suggest that any UN resolution, either by the Security Council or the General Assembly, can change the legal rights under the Mandate.
      As for “ethnic cleansing,” you either have no idea what it means or are using it for its emotive appeal. If you seek ethnic cleansing, you will see that it flows in the other direction. After all, there is a reason that after 1949, every single Jewish community in territories conquered by Jordan and Egypt (including the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem) was emptied of Jews. On the other hand, Israel found itself with a large Arab population which today accounts for about 20% of its population.
      Your polemics, as they are self-evidently fact-free, about “singularly repugnant” (really, compared to present day Syria or the millions murdered in Congo, to name just two obvious examples) and “illegitimate entity”, convince no one. It is the written equivalent of trying to shout someone else down. That you admit that you hate Jews and not just Israelis is, I suppose, refreshing – but also suggests that you are all emotion and no critical thought. That, in the end, is your loss.

      • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

        JSF’s mind (is there one of his own) is made up, now you want to confuse him with facts?
        Love your posts, Yishar Koach

    • BradD99

      If Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, there would be zero Israeli Arabs. But there are over ONE MILLION Israeli Arabs.

      Arab countries did destroy their Jewish populations. So there are close to zero Jews left living in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, etc.

      As usual, an Israel-hater turns out to be a liar. Very common.

      • Jeffrey Vernon

        There are Jews alive in Europe today – does this disprove the holocaust? Of course not. In the same way, Palestinians could have been forcibly removed and still exist in sizeable numbers

    • Coleridge1

      Another nutter! Just can’t live with a democracy living in the Middle East but doesn’t have a problem with primitive savage Moslem states who stone women to death, cut the heads of infidels and kill Gays. What a loser you are.

    • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

      Israel has border disputes. It is not unique in this. Not all of its borders are disputed. It’s settled the boundary with Egypt via peace treaty. Its boundary with Syria is unsettled over the Golan and because Syria took some land from Lebanon when they had the Golan, Israel’s occupation of the Golan has marred Israel’s otherwise settled border status with that nation. The Israeli/Jordan border is also settled via peace treaty.

      So Israel doesn’t have settled borders with countries it is not at peace with. Japan has the same problem with Russia.

    • geronimoooo4

      taqiyya

  • http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/ levi9909

    This article is simply wrong from the headline all the way through the content. It assumes that it is Israelis who are hated, not the racist system that has established and maintained a Jewish majority through colonial settlement, ethnic cleansing and segregationist laws. It also fails to mention the occupation. All of Israel’s systematic and racist war crimes have been reduced to two words, “military antics”.

    It mentions Israel’s enforcement of borders but fails to mention that, uniquely, Israel fails to declare what it believes its borders to be. It also fails to mention that Israel is a state, not for the people it rules but for the world’s Jews, most of whom neither live there nor appear to want to. And of course, most of the people who actually come from there are barred from there.

    Deeply dishonest piece from a newbie Israel advocate just learning the ropes.

    A scan of the comments suggests to me that in order to remain on the board the comment has to be from a zionist or an anti-Jewish racist so since I’m neither I’m guessing this comment will go the way of my previous one which got deleted. I’m guessing that happened because I pointed out that Israel is an illegitimate entity.

    • BradD99

      The countries next to Israel are far more racist, far more bigoted, far more discriminatory than Israel could ever hope to be, and they are far larger than Israel. Yet Israel gets bashed more. Because (1) Israel is Jewish (2) Other

    • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

      Sure, let’s talk about the occupation of Gaza. How many missiles have to fly over the border before Israel legitimately reoccupies?

      • Soc Trap

        It’s ok. They are only firing them into their own land.

    • geronimoooo4

      yeah!
      without Israel Muslims would;t be killing each other!!

      LOOOL

      muslims can not even live in peace amongst themselves without a single jew around

      it;s quite entertaining though….

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Nothing gets deleted on this page, which is not moderated as far as I can see. You must have come across a technical glitch.

  • BradD99

    Normal, intelligent people like Israel as much as any other good country.

    Radical left idiots, extreme-right nutjobs, and a lot of Jew-hating Arabs and Jew-hating Muslims all bash Israel for mostly dishonest unfair reasons, and they add up to a loud, dumb, bigoted voice.

    • http://www.soon.srael.com Man deVoshkes

      You forgot the self-hating Jews/Israelis, BradD99, They exist and have nice platform at Haaretz, an Israeli daily dedicated to anything anti-Israel, anti-Bibi. To mention a few, Gidon Levi, Yossi Sarid, Amira Hass

      • Cyril Sneer

        I call them liberal progressive Jews because it’s apparently cool and edgy to hate your own kind and align yourself with the complete opposite of what you are supposed to stand for.

  • BradD99

    Israel’s neighbors: Insane Syria (Assad), insane Palestinians (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc), insane Lebanon (Hezbollah), insane Egypt (army vs Muslim Brotherhood), Jordan (bigoted, racist), etc.

    Israel’s neighbors are insane lunatics.

    Israel is the best country in that region, by far.

  • Phillip Wilson

    Twisting liberty’s definition from “minimized coercion” into “removed obstacles” is the basis for replacing liberty with centralized power.

  • F. Hugh Eveleigh

    I am a supporter of Israel. Just consider what it has achieved in such a short time and under such appalling circumstances. It is a beacon of enlightenment in an otherwise rather desperate area. But although I do support it (whatever that means) I don’t think any person can be unconditional in so doing. There are problems and injustices and Israel is sometimes to blame. But overall we should give it our support and hope that by engagement and argument we can highlight matters which are not fair and right. This is easily said of course but a damned sight harder to put into practice on the ground. But yes, I am with you Israel.

  • Dr.Stephen Avrington

    The only people who hat Israel are those who are antisemetic, those ignorant of history; thus gullible enough to be taken in by the criminally negligent media and their promulgation of a totally invented ahistorical “Palestinian” narrative; due to their being too closed minded and/too lazy to do a bit of research. Because the Jew symbolizes their being a “Judeo-Christian” God of Israel and the related culture that gave birth to the entire free Western democracies, it too is very logical they/it be hated by those professing a more “progressive”, though amoral, Atheistic sociopolitical belief construct; Communism, Socialism. And lastly, Muslims hate all “kufr”, especially the Jew because their hateful texts tell them to an have never, could never and will never afford peace only the “Hudna”… Islam, like Nazism, Communism or Fascism is an anti-Canadian/Western cancer….

    • Soc Trap

      “The only people who hat Israel are those who are antisemetic, those ignorant of history; thus gullible enough to be taken in by the criminally negligent media….. ” blah blah blah.

      You mean like hundreds of thousands of Torah Jews?

      http://www.truetorahjews.org/

      • Dr.Stephen Avrington

        You’re having me on for a laugh aren’t you? Your ignorance is offensive. “Torah Jews”… You must mean the Torah Jews like the millions of Lubavitcher “Torah Jews” and the most base “Orthodox” ‘Torah Jews”?
        Don’t be so bloody gullible! The vast majority of Jews living in Israel are “Torah Jews” from the Arab-Islamic World that lived under the “blessings” of Islamic subjugation as fourth class citizens, lower than the dog, just like millions of persecuted Christians and HIndus continue to do to this day. This is well documented – en masse – by Christian, Jewish and Islamic/Arabian Historians and travelers visiting the Middle East since the 7th century….
        Please research the subject before you post. Thank you and regards…
        SRA

        • Soc Trap

          What are you on about? Who said Torah Jews didn’t exist in Israel?. I said hundreds of thousands were against it. I didn’t say “all”.

          The reason you are having trouble with your research and balance may have been exposed in your basic misunderstanding in this case.

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            No “misunderstanding” at all. None whatsoever. To say “Torah Jews” or “True Torah Jews” is quite simply moot. Propaganda. To call a Satmar a “Torah Jew” and a Lubavitcher Jew or some other Orthodox Jews not “Torah Jews” is simply ignorant and arrogance.
            If you research the history of the so-called “Ultra-Orthodox” movements you’ll notice that they are more comparable to cults that infuse regional cultural content and pseudo-religious content within the basic premise of their base theology; in this regard it is Judaism. You’d also notice that most of these “Ultra-Orthodox” have based more importance within prayer then within Biblical Study. You’d enjoy the book by a “Torah Jew” named Rabbi Yissachar Shlomo Teichtal called ” Eim HaBanim Semeichah Eretz Yisrael, Redemption and Unity ” Comparable to calling oneself a “True Bible Christian”. Because there are some 30,000+ “sects” of Christianity all professing themselves to be True Christians who’s right? Same for Islam and many others regarding their ideological beliefs. Take Socialism/Communism for example: Marx vs. Lenin vs Stalin vs Franco vs Ceausescu vs Mao etc. All were different and interpreted the philosophy of Socialism/Communism differently.
            Like Al Gore or David Suzuki and the Global Warming movement, you might well know that these Jews will never debate other Orthodox Jews who happen to follow Religious Zionism and multitudes of examples within the Bible and have occurred over time. Rabbi Meir Kahane was a “Torah Jew” for example and these “Ultra-Orthodox” Jews you’ve mentioned above would and did never debate the man because he was largely right. You might enjoy the works by this Rabbi Kahane to understand Religious Zionism with its numerous Biblical and historical examples as well the works by Gershom Scholem to fulfill a better understanding of the “Ultra-Orthodox” Jewish movements/sects…

          • Soc Trap

            You are waffling. Seriously good stuff, but irrelevant. Your initial statement (which I exposed as fallacy) was….

            “The only people who hat Israel are those who are antisemetic, those ignorant of history; etc etc”

            Well, I generally can stand Israel. Generally I think all Jews should move back to Europe/Russia/US where they came from. They are living on stolen land. Contrary to hating Jews, I rather like them and am happy to live amongst them.

            Hundreds of thousands of Jews also hate Israel/zionism.

            So you have drawn on all your knowledge to support a fallacious argument.

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            You cannot be serious? I am anything but “waffling” and all is entirely relevant. My statement stands correct because you’ve shown yourself to not understand the subject and entirely benighted to historical fact.
            Again, the majority of Israel’s population are comprised of Jewish refugees from Arab/Islamic countries. As documented by numerous historians, travelers and religious leaders for millennium Jews; Judeans; from Judea have not only continued to live on that land long before Islamic Jihad had visited the land laying waste to it entirely, Jews from all over the world, including Europe have come to live among their Hebrew speaking indigenous Jewish kinfolk. There are multitudes written on this subject, first hand stemming almost 2000 years. I mean really? Research the bloody subject.
            Hundreds of thousands of Jews, most of little Jewishness, do not support Zionism but are they right? The majority – vast majority – of Muslims support Jihad should they be made to leave all the countries they’ve occupied through holy war? Should the Muslims from as far away as the Balkans, Africa or Persia that were imported, or immigrated like nomads either fleeing their local tax collectors or simply seeking employment, into the region of Palestine during the 19th and 20th century as part of Ottoman population transfers, for example, also be deported back to wherever they came?
            No, you’ve entirely closed your mind to factual reality and labeling something “fallacious” simply because of your ignorance and immense arrogance of the subject is not only insulting but offensive to anyone with a moral compass that actually understands the subject at hand…

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            No “waffling” whatsoever and everything is entirely relevant to the subject; which you’d understand had you researched the subject thoroughly.

            No, you’ve proven my initial statement to be entirely true not fallacy at all.

            Why should Jews; Judeans; from Judea whose ancestry and relatives who have lived on those lands for a few millennium before the its being conquered and entirely laid waist by Islamic Jihad leave for Poland? The fact that the majority of Israeli society are comprised from Jewish refugees from the Islamic/Arab World should they also return to Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus or Marrakesh places too where they had lived long before Islam and who have been molested entirely under Islamic “tolerance” for 1300 years?

            Should the Muslims be forced to return to Arabia from all their lands which they’ve conquered through Jihad? Should the multi-ethic Muslims that were transferred into the region of Palestine by numerous Ottoman Resettlement Laws during the 18th-20th centuries, from all corners of their Caliphate; the Balkans to Persia also be returned to wherever they came? Should the Islamic population that immigrated into the region as part of Arab, British or UNWRA operations also be relocated back to wherever they came? This is all documented fact.

            It seems that one is too quick to condemn a Jewish belief that is well rooted within their history as well their religion, relating themselves to their ancestral homelands, while totally placing a blind eye on Islam and its Jihad revisionist propaganda.

            There are masses of examples by Christian, Jewish and Islamic authors, religious leaders, historians and travelers to The Holy Land documenting habitual Jewish immigration and existence on those lands since long before the Romans. Heck Medina, in Arabia, was a Jewish town before they all were either expelled or massacred by Muhammad and his marry followers… Should they be allowed to return to Arabia; a land where Jews are not allowed to go let alone one Church or Synagogue? How about the “East Bank” of “Palestine” where Jews are not allowed to live? Funny isn’t it, how before Israel came into being Eastern Europeans were telling Jews to go back to Palestine/Israel and the Arabs too were saying this. Now that they are back… the propaganda repaints them as “occupiers” that must return to Poland while the reality is that most of them stem from Jewish refugees from all over the Arab/Islamic world.

            If you care to research the subject you’ll find Zionism existed within the Arab/”Sephard” Jews long before it ever became active under the European Socialist Jews.

            Research Judah ha-Levi, Maimonides, Isaac Abravanel, Baruch Spinoza and many others and you’ll see that because of a minority of Jews oppose Zionism or Israel does not make them to be right or anything they say to be truth.

            Again research the above texts, persons and subjects at hand and you’ll see you’ve been entirely duped…
            PS: just because you disagree with something and are immensely closed minded to do any independent research, fact checking and have allowed yourself to become, what Lenin called “a useful idiot” does not equate to anything therein to be considered a “fallacious argument”….

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            Further, all of these “Torah Jews” you toss your hand with are the biggest hypocrites as thousands of them live within Israel, do almost nothing productive for the country, yet expecting the Israeli – most of which are their own Jewish brethren – to pay their dole…
            Let these “Torah Jews” lead by example and go live as 4th class “dhimmi” cattle in Yemen, Iraq, Tunisia or bloody Gaza… Perhaps then, when they understand what their “Sephardic” Jewish brethren had lived through under the blessings of Islam, perhaps then their ignorance and arrogance will be rectified…….

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      The muslims I know have never been into a mosque, think that premarital sex is normal, have Jewish friends, play music and drink alcohol. The cartoon jihadist is about as real as the conspiratorial jew of the antisemitic imagination.

      • Dr.Stephen Avrington

        Jeffrey, you truly should research the subject. Read the Qur’an and the Hadith. Study Islamic history answering how – and why – Islam spread from Asia to Spain over 450 years before the First Crusade.
        What you’ve described above is not of believing, practicing or “Orthodox” Islam/Muslim but those that would be comparable to Liberal Jews who know nothing of their heritage, culture, history or faith. You are attempting to equate apples to oranges. You must research this subject because moral, cultural and religious relativism is not only folly but dangerous.
        Regards,
        SRA

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          You are missing my point. Most muslims are ‘bad’ muslims, and have far less knowledge of scripture and so on than their critics. I remember disappointing a Hindu who asked me questions about the new testament that I was unable to answer; he presumed that as a British citizen, I was nominally Church of England, and must be acquainted with the Bible. In the same way, I am neither responsible for, nor theologically or psychologically influenced by, the 30 years war of the 17th century, the Spanish inquisition, the Crusades, the conquest of the Americas, etc etc.

          The muslims I am describing – as well as the jews you mentioned – would be astonished to hear that they are not real muslims or jews. My acquaintances are the real face of Islam in Britain – the half educated imams, the overheated students, the conspiracy-minded bigots all exist, but their numbers are hugely overwhelmed by the muslims whose identity is a matter of family background, skin colour, home language, vague nods in direction of the calendar, and matters of that sort. Some critics of salafism and so on make no distinction, assuming that all muslims are potential plane-bombers.

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            Jeffrey, you make very good points. I am not missing the point however I believe I am not explaining myself properly perhaps. Islam, is thoroughly and blatantly and anti-non-Islamic cancer, especially the once free and once democratic “Judeo-Christian” West. Entirely proven via their own texts and expansionist history from Asia to Spain. According to Islam, they are “bad” Muslims however most people have no understanding of Islam let alone any of the other religions or sociopolitical belief constructs which often are cohorts or infect the aforementioned; that includes Christianity and Judaism.
            An “extremist”, or “believing” Christian raises money and goes to Africa or some other Turd World cesspit to build a school, hospital and spread the word of Christ. An “extremist” or “believing” Jew most often spends their waking hours in a dark silent room studying their Torah/Talmud or move to Israel and do this there along with similar charity work; unless they happen to be taken in by some “Ultra-Orthodox” cult where mostly the former applies and become a tool against the latter by the most vile rabid antisemites. Now the extremist or believing Muslim becomes a Jihadist. Why? Because it is demanded of them within their theology as well is exactly the path followed by Islam’s founder. Therefore, Islam, ironically similar to Communism and Anarchism’s commitment to “revolution” for “change”, is committed to “change” and “progress” all “dar al-Harbe” nations until they are subjugated to Islam.
            You make a very good point, however if one was talking about Nazism instead of Islam – though they were ideological partners – the subject would gain honest and open discourse. The fact Islam is what it is, makes all Muslims a 5th column whether they relate to Islam, as preached and practiced by the profit Muhammad or not. It only takes one “returning” or Muslim to “find himself” and you’ve got a problem on your hands…..
            I guess that was my point.
            Oh, Amen to those Tommy Robinson and Paul Weston fellows and all whom partake in their movement…
            Kind regards,
            SRA

          • Jeffrey Vernon

            I confess, I am not deeply versed in Islamic theology, or the demands it places on Muslims. If it really does require them to make Jihad, you must believe that they have always done this. But it seems to me that the insistence on Jihad as a core duty is a modern over-reading of certain texts. The earlier expansion of Islam has much in common with the expansion of Christendom; the metastasising states were not under central command and control, and indeed often fought against each other. Islam was not spread exclusively by conquest; much of Islam was carried into remote areas of Africa and SE Asia by wandering Sufis. And I think that religious motivation for conquest does not withstand much scrutiny – 16th c Spain might have claimed it was spreading the word of God, but in reality it was competing against Portugal, France, England…The same was true of medieval Egypt, Syria, Spain, Persia and so on.

            If Nazism is an ideological partner of Islam, it appeared very late in the day. All kinds of nationalist movements – including some Arabs, Indian Hindus and Muslims, Irish and even Jews – flirted with fascism. A distinctive feature of european fascism is the strong man, who arrives in an emergency, and creates an aura of fascination and personal loyalty. I don’t see much of this in current Islamist movements, or in the (admittedly limited) muslim doctrines that I know about. It seems to me that the muslim radicals irritate their co-religionists by telling them they’ve been worshipping in the wrong way for a thousand years – the radicals are innovating, as Wahhab urged them to, not returning to the supposed sources of the religion.

          • Dr.Stephen Avrington

            You most certainly should become learned on Islamic theology and Islamic history because, the vast majority of what you’ve written is based on a Western modern regurgitation of, and a more “cosmopolitan”; basically Arabist standpoint not based on factual specificity.

            Islamic theology in particular and Islamic Jurisprudence specifically places itself in a perpetual state of war against all non-Islamic peoples, nations and religions until the entire Earth is under Islamic hegemony; rule. This is “Dar al-Islam” (abode of Islam) vs. “Dar al-Harb” or (abode of War; kufr; heretic/unbeliever) to which every Muslim, in the manner of Muhammad himself, holds obligation to continue. This is well justified within the Islamic texts themselves; Qur’an and Hadith as well Islamic commentary stemming from the “teaching”, “spoken words” regarding to and stemming from the 623 Nakhla raids of non-Muslim caravans: al-Jihad.

            You must research the history of Christianity, Judaism and Islam because all are not related and were not carried forth in the same manner. This is propaganda, mainly Socialist/Atheist claptrap. If you research the Crusades you’ll find many things that are not taught in school because it is “politically incorrect”. Self hate is the rule today. You’ll find out that the Crusades were a response to Islam’s “al-Jihad” expansionism that started over 450 years before Pope Urban II declared the First Crusade at the Council of Clermont in 1095. You’ll notice that Pope Urban, as well, Robert the Monk, had a very hard time calling Christendom to “holy war” against the Muslims because there is no “Jihad” or “holy war” concept in Christian doctrine. Too, you’ll notice that the Crusades included a few dozen battles, many of which were actually on European soil or against fellow Christians while few actually occurred in The Holy Land. On the other hand, one can, during the same time period and before, count over 200 battles of Jihad against Christians – not even getting into Persia or the Hind – on Christian soil in Europe. Please research yourself. If you’re like me at all you’re eyes will open wide upon learning you’ve been intentionally lied to by your own public school system for “politically correct” reasons. Bill Warner who has a fabulous overview “A 1400 Year Secret”.

            In many ways Christianity did not spread in the same manner as Islam. For example, Islam expanded over a radically different world compared to Christianity. Christianity came onto the state and confronted many different pagan societies where human sacrifice and cannibalism; absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. A few good examples of this would be Christianity in Asia, Africa, Early Europe as well in North America documented by Bernal Diaz. Christianity, though not perfect, is radically different then Islam and while explorers were discovering new World’s they were confronted with, often warring savage tribal societies that also attempted to make war on them. Though pagan themselves Vikings found this out when they came onto Newfoundland for example.

            Islam was, most often then not, spread through conquest. Entirely through conquest from Omar to Tamirlane’s “pillars of skulls” wiping out millions of Hindus to Murad II.

            The list is near endless with massacres, rapes, theft and enslaving of others documented over the past 1300+ years by early Christians, Jews and the Islamic scholars themselves only the aforementioned referred to as “blessings” and “justic” over the “kufr” or “harbis” etc. not conquests.

            911, for example, was not the first time Americans have met Islam and its “jihad”. Research “The Barbary Wars” and what caused it. Research what the Caliph’s Tripoli Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman told to the Brits ; with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams present, in London March of 1785 as justification for their pillaging of American shipping. This is an extremely old and well documented phenomenon that has been occurring onto the “unbeliever” since 623 all over the world even dominating the entire subject of slavery….the factually correct version.
            You’ve heard of “Dracula”? He and his “order of the dragon” was a Christian organization formed to confront Islamic expansion into Europe.
            Religious motivation for expansion is a pillar in Islam. It is an obligation within Islam and is well documented within the Islamic texts themselves and in continual unbroken chain into today.
            If you study Nazism, its early formation days, you’ll understand that Hitler and his Thule sent their people to the East to study Eastern philosophy. Nazism is about egalitarianism predicated on a dictatorial lead idea of a racial superiority. This also exists in Islam itself. Due to Hitler’s immense hatred of anything related to the Jew, he well understood and was highly amicable to the Islamic view of the Judean: Jew. If you research this you’ll note that Hitler befriended Hajj Amin al-Husseini; the uncle of Yassir Arafat. They formed Muslim SS divisions; Hanjar Division. In fact, most Arab/Islamic dictators are well versed in the dialectical teachings of Marx, Lenin, Mao and of course Hitler. David Horowitz has a wonderful presentation called “Islamic Mein Kempf”.
            Most don’t understand what Fascism actually is or was. Most in the media today toss out labels without any understanding whatsoever, politicians and the “educational” system in particular; not that you are but most don’t understand. There’s nothing wrong with nationalism whatsoever. Just because one is fond of their country and wish to see it progress in a truly productive manner and wish to keep the ills at bay does not mean they “hate” any other nation or people. This is a big mistake that is always propagated by the media comparing nationalist minded individuals to “Nazis”, “Fascists” “Right Winger” etc.
            Every revolutionary movement in early European history, whether it be Communism/Socialism, Fascism or Nazism holds the common “distinctive feature of european fascism is the strong man, who arrives in an emergency, and creates an aura of fascination and personal loyalty.” They usually do this by using the Anarchists and their deeds to claim “justification” for intervention. Hitler did, Lenin did, Mussolini did etc.
            You don’t see this dialectical situation at work because a. it is not presented in our media and b. because most westerners do not understand Islam and Jihad. They are among themselves – different sects warring against each other; PLO vs Hamas, Hizbollah vs Al Aqsa etc. as well against “the unbeliever”.
            There is no such thing as a “radical Islam”. Islam is Islam whether the follower attempts to fulfill their obligation according to Islamic theopolitical jurisprudence makes that individual, like Muhammad or Omar, Timurlane, Murad etc.etc. extremists.
            “It seems to me that the muslim radicals irritate their co-religionists by telling them they’ve been worshipping in the wrong way for a thousand years – the radicals are innovating, as Wahhab urged them to, not returning to the supposed sources of the religion.” Right and not exactly. The al-Wahabism is Orthodox Sunni Islam. What one needs to understand is what Islam is and what it is not. Who Muhammad was and who he is not. For example, if you research Muhammad, he started out as a preacher that combined Christianity, Pagan and Jewish beliefs into Islam; which is why Muslims used to pray toward Jerusalem like the Jews and they took their Halal food laws from the Jews “Kashrut” laws as well they see Jesus as a Muslim prophet. You’ll notice that every one of the stories and characters found in The Old Testament and the New Testament are all molested and without chronological order…. Muhammad continued preaching this “religion of peace” within the first phase of Islam; Mecca. Then Muhammad attempted to expand his religion to the Jews of Medina; yes Medina – the second holiest place of Islam – was actually founded by Jews and was an oasis/trading/farming depot. Muhammad landed there and tried to convert a true scholar of the Bible; an Orthodox Rabbi. The illiterate man tried to convert this fellow and basically the Rabbi and the Jews of Medina told him to bugger off as a fraud. Then Islam entered its second, and most political, active and expansionist stage: Jihad. This is where you’ll find all the ills and bloodletting obligations against the non-Muslim.
            For every “peaceful” utterance within the Islamic texts there are dozens and dozens of hate. If anyone ever reads you a peaceful passage, tell that person to continue reading because; abrogation takes place and that “peaceful” statement is then cancelled out for death, rape, robbery, slavery etc. etc.
            Regards and apologies for the length…
            SRA

      • cbinTH

        I was about to tell you that your friends sounded atypical, based on the variety of Muslims I know, but then I thought about it. All these things do commonly go on amongst Muslims (certainly very few absolutely reject music!), albeit to a lesser degree. Virginity, sobriety, and very strong pro-Palestinian sentiments are also perfectly normal, though – in some contexts, more so. The vast, vast, majority, of UK Muslims have, at some point in their lives, been inside a mosque (the definition of “mosque” may be the problem, as most communal prayer spaces in the UK are not purpose built grand buildings – not “proper” mosques). So I think your friends are probably unusual.

        While “cartoon jihadists” are unusual, they clearly exist – unlike the conspiratorial Jew – and they can be seen in action on Youtube, in places like Syria, as well as elsewhere. Moreover, there are many who are not actually cartoon jihadists who nevertheless resemble them in one or another particular, with various degree’s of importance.

        I think the truth is more subtle and complicated than the simplistic binary choice of asserting that Muslims are either different and hate us or that Muslims are actually all just like us and share our perspective entirely.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          Agreed, the binary divide is too simplistic. Nonetheless, a UK citizen with two muslim grandparents might have recognisable residues of Pakistani culture with no muslim specifics, and might be less ‘different’ from me than, say, an Italian working in London. Cultural, legacy Islam is so weak among my acquaintances that for them it’s no more than the ‘christianity’ of people who sing carols one night a year. I had to remind one of them when it was Ramadan. What this suggests to me is that some Islam-watchers are better muslims than the people they criticise, with their fine dissection of theological concepts like tawhid that few muslims know about. The Satanic Verses affair illustrated this perfectly; none of the British muslims marching against the book can have known that the so-called satanic verses occur in the Koran.

  • Bob339

    I would like to compliment the editor of the Spectator for his humanity in providing employment for poor Brendan who obviously lives in a care home, cut off from reality, and has severe brain damage. (Or perhaps he just like to write Israeli propaganda?- in which case I withdraw my compliment.)

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Oh come on, you’re not even trying. i) Europeans don’t like Israel. ii) The reason for this is that we’ve rejected progress and modernity. What do you think about either claim?

  • bear

    Oh, everybody doesn’t hate you Israel, they’ve just tried to kill you all several times. I’m sorry that’s not funny.

  • John Kinory

    “loathed by almost every Westerner who considers himself decent” – total bollocks. The writer really needs to get out more out of his bubble; he seems to think that nothing exists beyond the self-regarding circle of ignorant Guardian-reading North Londoners who work in the ‘media’.
    Among the people I know, all of them ‘Westerners who consider themselves decent’, nobody loathes Israel. Some of them, to be sure, are half-brainwashed by the lies they hear on the BBC day in, day out; but even among those, the majority are beginning to wake up and realise that they have been fed distorted political propaganda by the idiots running the BBC’s ‘news’ programmes.
    Even in Parliament, Israel has plenty of friends. Not everyone is called Kaufman or Slaughter.

  • Tulli Monstrum

    Do westerners hate the Israelis? I certainly don’t, nor do I have any objection to the existence of the state of Israel. I appreciate it exists surrounded by countries that would like to destroy it and it is a democracy where minority groups probably are treated better than elsewhere in the Middle East. But that and the incompetence of the Palestinian leadership does not give Israel carte blanche to engage in the de facto stealthy annexation of Palestinian land beyond its 1967 border. If Israel stopped doing that, a lot more people would support it.

  • JossefPerl

    Mr. O’Neill, you are a 100% Goy; in a typical European way, you are fascinated by Jews (and now by Israelis) but you don’t understand Jews and you obviously don’t understand Israelis. To say that we Israelis don’t know why Europeans hate us is laughable; it is the best illustration of your inability to relate to Jewish thinking( which is the root of Israeli thinking). We know why Europeans hate us; it is the same reasons you have hated us for 2000 years; we also know that this hate is rooted in a disease called antisemitism and there is nothing we can do about it and that is why we don’t care. Mr. O’Neill, your statement that Israel is “a lot like we used to be before relativism and anti-modernism. I
    think that Israel reminds us of our older selves, our pre-EU, pre-green
    days, when we, too, believed in borders, sovereignty, progress, growth;” such an elitist statement is the best illustration of your inability to understand Jewish values. From the outside, Israel may look to an European as just another successful country, we drive the same cars, on similar streets and work in the same kind of office buildings, but Europeans cannot understand that Jews all know that they have a universal mission and they aspire to be much more than just another rich developed European country.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      You might be right that O’Neill – being a Goy – can never understand this mysterious commodity of Jewishness. Perhaps it’s reciprocal, and you can never understand the Goy. It seems a strange kind of race myth to me, but let that pass. The point he makes in the article is not that he knows how Jewish people think; but that Europeans project their own ideas onto Israel.

      • JossefPerl

        I think you missed the point of my comment entirely. Mr. O’Neill interviewed an Israeli by the name of Uri Dromi and came up with a silly conclusion that Israelis don’t know why Europeans hate them; my point was that by far most Israelis know exactly why Europeans hate them and I stated it clearly in my comment, but you apparently wanted to make the point is that we Jews do not understand Goyim as much as Goyim don’t understand us. The facts are that while the Goyim have always been fascinated by Jews (which explains why a country the size of New-Jersey like Israel gets so much focus from the international media and the rest of the world an so much focus (negative) at the UN), this fascination is not mutual; we Jews are not fascinated by Goyim; we never persecuted Europeans while they persecuted us for a 1000 years; we just want them them to cure themselves of antisemitism which unfortunately they have not been unable to do.

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          The difficulty with what you write is that Israel’s critics are not all, or even mostly, antisemites; unless you want to say that all criticism is antisemitic. I have often wondered why Israel preoccupies campaigners who are not in the least ‘fascinated by Jews’ (really, I can’t imagine what this would mean, except for a rare kind of psychopath) and I found O’Neill’s suggestion very plausible (and it would lead to the prediction that Europeans as they become more pessimistic about their own futures will become more critical of Israel).

  • paulus

    Well, you might loath yourself and probably with good reason, but I don’t think the rest of us do. I can’t think of any reason why anyone would `hate’ the Jewish people after the appauling way they have been treated through out history. And, lets be honest that discrimination was perpetrated mostly by Christians whereas the Muslims were more tolerant.

    I think what people find distasteful is that once one religion, race or group dominate a State or society it is beholden on them to exercise that position of dominance judiciously in regard to others and minoritories.

    People appreciate that Israel has a right to defend itself, but it can’t be beyond the wit of a people persecuted for hundreds of years that diplomacy and integrating a disparate groupings of people as tanks and rubber bullets.

  • Alexbensky

    Sorry, I don’t think that’s the main reason. After all, the same people who hate Israel fall over themselves to express support for Palestinian nationalism–Palestinian national consciousness is a confected melange of false history, hate, and rage and does not date back sixty years. It’s worth noting that before 1948 the only people who called themselves “Palestinians” were Jews.

    This is part of it but I think the main reason they hate Israel is…well, let me put it this way: Israel has a lot of something its enemies have none of. And I don’t mean really good felafel.

    Otherwise, explain to me why labor unions try to delegitimize the only country in the area with a free trade union, feminists hate the country whose women are about as emancipated as you’re going to find on the planet and leap to support people who systematically oppress, mutilate, and degrade women…anti-capital punishment people oppose Israel and support the Palestinians who engage in capital punishment right and left–sometimes with an hour or two swipe at due process, sometimes not.

    No point in mentioning Israel’s raucously open public debate since over here in the US and as far as I can tell in the UK the left doesn’t do more than pretend that it believes in free speech.

    Well, as Bishop Tutu said, the Jews are “a peculiar people” (his words) and cannot be expected to be judged by the standards applied to everybody else. I think I speak for most Jews when I say we appreciate the idea that we are capable of behavior that no one else in the history of the universe either has performed or been expected to, but thanks anyway.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      You mean that Israel has a lot of … chutzpah?

  • regbs

    Israelis. Consummate victims. In return for the WASP world saving Jews, creating Israel, and keeping Israel in existence and in a standard of living impossible without fleecing American, British and German citizens, Israel provided the Rosenbergs to steal US nuclear technology to give to Israel and the Soviets, attacked the USS Liberty and to this days refuses cooperation, conducts espionage against its benefactors, attacks free speech in an attempt to criminalize any thought daring to declare Jews as human as everyone else, funded Argentina against the same British who saved Jews from annihilation, sells American weapons’ technology to the PRC, runs over American citizens with bulldozers and refuses cooperation in an investigation or even an apology, funds front groups like the ADL, $PLC, etc to attack Western society. But, as always, Israelis are the victims. Want to prove that 2+2=5? Simply declare that disagreeing would be anti-Semitic. Conversation over.

    • Bill Pearlman

      Just curious, How were things in the fuhrer bunker?

      • Common sense

        Just curious, in what way was regbs’ comment anti-Semitic?

        Same old shit

        • Bill Pearlman

          Are you really that stupid

          • Common sense

            I don’t think ‘Israeli’ is synonymous with ‘jews’, but then again I only speak English, not propaganda

      • WeNeedPeaceNow

        The German people made one fatal mistake, they didn’t actually commit a holocaust. Had they done it, they would have shot you filth on sight instead of putting you in work camps. Everyone knows that the only reason the Jews died was because of allied bombings and typhus, not the fairy tales you lying parasites have told the world. No ovens, no skin lamps, none of that garbage happened and were proven lies the world over. Making fun of the German people and using antisemitism is done. The jig is up lying Jews. Sane people don’t believe the lies and horses##t coming out of your lying zionst mouths anymore. All one has to do is look at the way Jews treat the Christian, Muslim, and real Jewish Palestinians to see how they would treat the rest of the world if they were allowed into other countries. Heck, the American economy is ruined because of them just like they ruined the German economy. Parasites and vermin who’s actions speak for themselves. That is why you are hated. oh, and the lies and the constant victimhood.

    • WeNeedPeaceNow

      The Polish people had a saying that is so true, “A Jew cries out in pain as he steps on your neck”. They truly are the most vile and toxic parasite the world has ever seen. Just look at what they are doing to the American economy with their AIPAC lobby that is funneling billions of our tax dollars into that cockroach country called Israel. They literally bribe, extort, and threaten our American congress to support Israel even if it costs the lives of the American people and ruins our entire economy. No wonder Europeans hate these vermin so much.

  • Boaz Yarmarkov

    The world is a fickle place — Anti-Semitism hasn’t gone away; it’s merely morphed into
    hatred of Israel.

    The Jews will never be “loved”. The world will
    love the Jews greatly were they to roll over and die, and that is not going to
    happen.

    I’m with Machiavelli — it is far, far better to be feared
    than to be loved.

    • Augustus

      The recognition of the Jewish peoples historical link to the land of Israel, and of their right to sovereignty over it, was the reason for the outbreak of the armed political conflict between Jews and Arabs and the Arab riots of the 1920s. A conflict that continues in various incarnations up to today. The goal of the Arabs was, and still is, to completely eliminate international recognition of Jewish right to Israel. That is why they call these facts the ‘Jewish narrative’, to reduce its importance and to hide the fact that opposing these rights contravenes international law. To undermine the Jewish narrative, they’ve invented an ‘Arab narrative’, the principles of which are in the Palestine National Charter of 1964. The rationale on which that charter is based is that Jews share only a religion, not a nationality, and therefore they have no right to sovereignty. Their conclusion, therefore, is that the existing state must be destroyed and a Palestinian state must be built on top of the ruins.

      • WeNeedPeaceNow

        So a bunch of kook lunatic zionist Jews murdered over 1.1 million innocent people and violently expelled another 4 million to their deaths because they believe that 3,000 years ago God gave them that land?? They got Britain, America, and the UN to allow the colonizing and eventual genocide to commence and it’s all cool cause no one will miss over 5 million people. Is that the narrative you are trying to word real nicely??? That’s 5 million innocent people. Doesn’t matter if they were martians. You Jew criminals and butchers murdered them in cold blood and stole their homes. No wonder the world hates your sick genetically toxic variety of sub-humans. You actually have the nerve to pretend like the genocide you committed and the land you stole never happened. What a bunch of slime. Then you have the audacity to sit there and play the victim card claiming the Arab world hates you???!!!???? Of course they hate you @ssholes, you slaughtered 5 million people since 1948 that didn’t do anything to you and welcomed you slime with open arms and as a result you stole their farms, homes, and entire cities by gunpoint and tanks.

        Wow, you zionist Jews are total slime. You don’t even have enough stones to admit your real history. Genocide and the murder of over 5 million people is just glossed over like it didn’t even happen. No wonder Europe kicked you out over 109 times throughout history, who the heck wants this type of toxic dangerous parasite around them?

        But by all means, keep re-writing history because that is what you are good at, especially that joke you call the “holocaust”, the biggest crock of sh*t that ever existed.

  • Boaz Yarmarkov

    Dear World,

    I understand that you are upset by us, here in Israel.

    Indeed, it appears that you are quite upset, even angry.

    Indeed, every few years you seem to become upset by us. Today, it is
    the “brutal repression of the Palestinians”; yesterday it was Lebanon;
    before that it was the bombing of the nuclear reactor in Baghdad and the
    Yom Kippur War and the Sinai campaign. It appears that Jews who triumph
    and who, therefore, live, upset you most extraordinarily.

    Of course, dear world, long before there was an Israel, we – the Jewish people – upset you.
    We upset a German people who elected Hitler and upset an Austrian people
    who cheered his entry into Vienna and we upset a whole slew of Slavic
    nations – Poles, Slovaks, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Russians, Hungarians
    and Romanians. And we go back a long, long way in the history of world
    upset.

    We upset the Cossacks of Chmielnicki who massacred tens of thousands
    of us in 1648-49; we upset the Crusaders who, on their way to liberate
    the Holy Land, were so upset at Jews that they slaughtered untold
    numbers of us.

    For centuries, we upset a Roman Catholic Church that did its best to
    define our relationship through inquisitions, and we upset the
    arch-enemy of the church, Martin Luther, who, in his call to burn the
    synagogues and the Jews within them, showed an admirable Christian
    ecumenical spirit.

    And it is because we became so upset over upsetting you, dear world,
    that we decided to leave you – in a manner of speaking – and establish a
    Jewish state. The reasoning was that living in close contact with you,
    as resident-strangers in the various countries that comprise you, we
    upset you, irritate you and disturb you. What better notion, then, than
    to leave you (and thus love you)- and have you love us and so, we
    decided to come home – home to the same land we were driven out 1,900
    years earlier by a Roman world that, apparently, we also upset.

    Alas, dear world, it appears that you are hard to please.

    Having left you and your pogroms and inquisitions and crusades and
    holocausts, having taken our leave of the general world to live alone in
    our own little state, we continue to upset you. You are upset that we
    repress the poor Palestinians. You are deeply angered over the fact that
    we do not give up the lands of 1967, which are clearly the obstacle to
    peace in the Middle East.

    Moscow is upset and Washington is upset. The “radical” Arabs are upset and the gentle Egyptian moderates are upset.

    Well, dear world, consider the reaction of a normal Jew from Israel.

    In 1920 and 1921 and 1929, there were no territories of 1967 to
    impede peace between Jews and Arabs. Indeed, there was no Jewish State
    to upset anybody. Nevertheless, the same oppressed and repressed
    Palestinians slaughtered tens of Jews in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Safed and
    Hebron. Indeed, 67 Jews were slaughtered one day in Hebron in 1929.

    Dear world, why did the Arabs – the Palestinians – massacre 67 Jews
    in one day in 1929? Could it have been their anger over Israeli
    aggression in 1967? And why were 510 Jewish men, women and children
    slaughtered in Arab riots between 1936-39? Was it because Arabs were
    upset over 1967?
    And when you, dear world, proposed a UN Partition Plan in 1947 that
    would have created a “Palestinian State” alongside a tiny Israel and the
    Arabs cried “no” and went to war and killed 6,000 Jews – was that
    “upset” caused by the aggression of 1967? And, by the way, dear world,
    why did we not hear your cry of “upset” then?

    The poor Palestinians who today kill Jews with explosives and
    firebombs and stones are part of the same people who when they had all
    the territories they now demand be given to them for their state
    -attempted to drive the Jewish state into the sea. The same twisted
    faces, the same hate, the same cry of “itbach-al-yahud” (Massacre the
    Jew!) that we hear and see today, were seen and heard then. The same
    people, the same dream – destroy Israel. What they failed to do
    yesterday, they dream of today, but we should not “repress” them.

    Dear world, you stood by during the holocaust and you stood by in
    1948 as seven states launched a war that the Arab League proudly
    compared to the Mongol massacres.
    You stood by in 1967 as Nasser, wildly cheered by wild mobs in every
    Arab capital in the world, vowed to drive the Jews into the sea. And you
    would stand by tomorrow if Israel were facing extinction. And since we
    know that the Arabs-Palestinians dream daily of that extinction, we will
    do everything possible to remain alive in our own land. If that bothers
    you, dear world, well think of how many times in the past you bothered
    us.

    In any event, dear world, if you are bothered by us, here is one Jew in Israel who could not care less.

    (I am not sure who wrote this… but shared it in any
    case)

    • Rabbi Burns

      כהנא צדק

    • Damaris Tighe

      Brilliant post.

    • WeNeedPeaceNow

      You poor poor poor poor innocent victims. The world hates you because you are all innocent angels with wings made from the tears of teddy bears and halos made from unicorn smiles.

      The world hates you because you are land thieving butchers with a history of living off of people like parasites. You were kicked out of Europe over 109 times because you defraud people of their property, their savings, and their livelyhood. You are a tribe that lives off the labor, blood, and tears of others. You cause wars by being the biggest @ssholes that ever lived. Your Mossad motto is “By deception we shall wage war”. You do nothing but lie about history and have been the creators of just about everything that has caused misery to the world – Zionism, communism (180 million dead), socialism, open border policies, financial crimes, war mongering, theft of land to create a fake country, and the draining of European and Americn economies with a fake holohoax not to mention the corruption of the American congress to steal American taxpayer money and funnel it into Israel.

      Those are only a few of the reasons you lying bunch of parasites but by all means keep playing the victim card, no wonder you roaches never change, you just ignore the reasons people hate you. lol

      The same crap the Jews pulled on Germany to destroy their economy was the same crap they pull today to ruin the American economy. The more things change, THE MORE JEWS STAY THE SAME.

      The Queen of Spain as well as the King ordered the Jews expelled from Spain for their part in ruining the economy of Spain. They were expelled and not allowed to return. Financial fraud, parasitism, and just generally being giant POS is the reason you are hated. That’s it in a nutshell.

      As far as Machiavelli is concerned, you aren’t feared, you are hated. Hate eventually leads the world to expelling and eventually exterminating those that cause it nothing but problems.

      But hey, keep playing the victim card, it’s doing wonders for your image.

  • mikewaller

    The central problem is that the whole of the Middle East is an unstable mess yet sensible people very much like ourselves chose to go and set up a nation state there because of religious claims many of us to believe to be a complete nonsense.

    Having ourselves tried the same strategy during what we call the crusades and conspicuously failed, we think it highly likely that it will all end in tears. We know that if Israel’s neighbours ever get their acts together – admittedly something of a challenge – we will face a choice of getting heavily involved ourselves or having to witness more genocide which may, or may not, involve nuclear weapons. Not a state of affairs the creation of which is ever likely to fill us with joy.

  • Ollie Williams

    Yet Brendan O’Neill and Spiked support open borders mass immigration for Britain…

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      Why is that inconsistent with his article?

      • Ollie Williams

        Because he argues (rightly imo) that we shouldn’t judge Israel for having borders.
        “This cuts to the heart of today’s fashionable disdain for little Israel. What many Westerners seem to find most nauseating is that Israel is cocky, confident and committed to preserving its national sovereign rights against all-comers. In short, it’s a lot like we used to be before relativism and anti-modernism. I think that Israel reminds us of our older selves, our pre-EU, pre-green days, when we, too, believed in borders, sovereignty, progress, growth.
        Now that it’s de rigueur in the right-thinking sections of western society to be post–nationalist and multicultural, to be fashionably uncertain about one’s national identity, the sight of a border-fortifying state offends and outrages us.”

        • Jeffrey Vernon

          He has argued for free movement of labour – but this only makes sense if people have countries to move between. If there were really no borders, there’d be no economic or social to move from (say) Finland to (say) Spain. He criticises the kind of pro-immigration measures that in his view undermine sovereignty (the EU) or are intended to promote a kind of fictive diversity (Blair government). I expect O’Neill would support the Jewish right of return to Israel, however strong its borders are; and for the right of Jews to live in any country in the world, including Palestine.

  • rtj1211

    I don’t think people hate Israel per se as a country. They hate certain acts by certain leaders which deny the principles which the State of Israel was founded on. in particular, the way they have undermined every peace settlement brokered or attempted to be brokered for 25 years concerning Palestine. They continue settlements in areas designated as Palestinian in those peace talks and couldn’t give a shit that they broke the agreement. That’s not very fair, it’s not very decent and not very likeable. When they back that up with moral blackmail to the entire West, it gets fairly close to despicable. But it doesn’t inspire hatred for a whole nation.

    The other thing which annoys people is that Israel kills more adversaries than its adversaries kill Israelis but it always plays the victim card. None of us will buy that. Israel is a nuclear power greater than the UK or France and has the full backing of the US military industrial complex but makes out that Palestinians are a global security threat. They aren’t. They are fighting against the odds and living in terrible conditions. It’s 21st century apartheid and if Israel can’t see that, well, that’s a big black mark on their Yiddish copybook.

    No-one suggests that the major enemies of Israel in past decades haven’t been Syria and Iran. No-one suggests that Lebanon was a proxy for war between those nations. But they don’t like Israel using the Lebanese as legitimate targets for pursuing that proxy war.

    As for where to live in the Middle East, Shazza, I’d rather live in China than the Middle East. Rather live in Africa than the Middle East. Rather live in Singapore. The only reason I would live there is if I had a family and the money there were so much better than back home that I became a migrant who sent money home to his family. I don’t have a family so that motivation is absent. So I’d simply not live there at all. I’m not on either side of the conflicts and my country’s evolution is about 300 years beyond that of the Middle East, so best not to interfere.

  • Tim Bucknall

    Sir, you refer to Poland as the site of the Holocaust (ahead of Germany!!)but with absolutely no context. please make it clear that the Nazi death camps were imposed on occupied Polish lands by German Occupiers. Your statement is criminally misleading. please correct your article

  • autoeuropean

    From what i’ve witnessed in the Middle East over many years the Palestinians are quite fortunate to have Jews as their neighbours. Why people in the West obsess themselves so much with Palestinians and yet don’t give a hoot about genocides in Africa and far more horrific atrocities going on around the world leads me to conclude some people are clearly obsessed about Jews.

  • Oliver Ford

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of the political situation is that Palestinians in the West Bank can’t vote in Israeli elections. Since ’67 they have been in a limbo where they’re not officially any country, and don’t have the rights of citizenship to any country. This is wrong, whatever else in the world and in the region is also wrong.

    By contrast, Britain never denied the right of Northern Irish Catholics to vote. They were outvoted by Protestants, but always voted in every general election if they wanted to. That gave British rule in NI a democratic legitimacy that is lacking in the West Bank.

    One surprising thing is that right-wingers, who otherwise claim to believe in strong morals and oppose moral relativism, adopt a “two wrongs make a right” attitude to the I/P situation. Clearly most of the surrounding countries are much worse, Israel is a more progressive and tolerant country than its neighbours in many ways. But where there is injustice it should be called out. And leaving the Palestinians in political limbo is unjust. If you had to live in the Middle East, you could definitely do worse than choose Israel or the territories. But if you were a Palestinian Arab in the West Bank, you’d definitely want your own independent state.

    • Daniel Greenfield

      They can’t vote because Israel wasn’t allowed to annex the territories leaving everyone in limbo.

    • jack

      Palestinians on the west bank are fully entitled to vote for representatives in the palestinian parliament and also for mayors and other local government officials. They may also vote for the president of the Palestinian authority. Of course the palestinian government has not held elections as scheduled because the current president knows his party would lose and that Hamas would take control. However this is an internal Palestinian conflict and has nothing to do with the Jews. As to voting in Israeli elections, why should Palestinians have any more say in these elections that Jews have inn the West bank elections? Jews fought and died to create a national homeland for themselves. They now have the right to run their internal affairs as they see fit. It really is not something that is up for discussion with Europeans or Americans .

    • geronimoooo4

      WTF should palestinians in the west bank vote in Israeli elections??
      are you stupid or something?

      do Israelis vote in Palestinian elections?
      besides, you real question should be: why hasn’t there been an election in any Palestnian territories in over 8 years??

  • jnk9

    1. It depends who the writer means by “we”.

    2. If I were given $3 billion a year by someone, I would find it hard to have the chutzpah to tell them that they hated me.

    3. I am pro-Israeli, but I wince whenever I read a pro-Israeli writer telling us that if we are not as gung-ho as herself, it must be because we are anti-semitic or supporters of terrorists. Israel is not so bad, but some of its supporters do it more harm than good.

  • avloppsbrunn

    Good article, and sadly very true….

  • Common sense

    An entire article about why people are angry with the actions of the Israeli government and not a single mention of Palestine? Beggars belief!

    “See no evil, hear no evil…”

    At least I finally understand how supporters of Israeli foreign policy can justify this government’s atrocities – they just ignore them! Haha

  • robbiewh

    This is a good article and I think makes some sense. Israel is disproportionately disliked. It is not perfect but it does have the right idea in many ways – democracy, freedom of sexuality, entrepreneurship etc. Its faults are nowhere near those of most of the Middle East or countries like North Korea, and yet you dont see floppy haired, middle class, liberal Brits protesting in London with flags and banners against the North Korean regime.

    I think it comes down to an underlying anti-semitism. Not the sort of anti-semitism that we need to get all worked up about and start shouting about with horror and disgust. Rather an anti-semitism that derives from a variety of accumulated subtie facets. I say this as a Jew who knows and loves the Jewish community in Britain and yet also has close friends outside of it.

    The Jews/Israel as a result are disliked because they are the people who have become a symbol of persecution and oppression in the 20th century and now they are the ones in power, flexing their muscles and overpowering the Palestinian people.
    The Jews – they succeed in society. They live in the best houses, run businesses, are influential in the banks, in politics, in the media. Who are these people who do so well, make so much money? What right do they have? Most of them have worked extremely hard to get there from almost nothing – but there are also the bad ones, greedy, fraudulent. Its only a minority but when its a Jewish name, it doesnt do us well.
    The next problem I think is that the Jews are a normal part of society yet at the same time, they arent. They look the same, they dress the same, they watch football/soccer, go out drinking with everyone. They are your best friend. And yet at the same time, they are different. They have different friends, they go a strange temple at the weekends, live in a different area. Its almost deceptive. It makes some people feel uncomfortable, or even envious.
    And finally, there is the idea of a superior race. They only want to marry other Jews, they always look after themselves and in the case of Israel, they defy international law and think themselves above it.
    I think most of these reasons for disliking Jews are unfair but I can also understand them. It all leads to what I think is a disproportionate dislike of Israel as a symbol of the Jewish people. Its harsh but we cant deny its the case. These people who become so anti-Israel also get caught up in the emotion and the rhetoric of it all. Standing amongst others, shouting and protesting in support of a cause that they think is moral, can become very seductive and even tribal. Ive seen it so many times. They are not even necessarily bad people but they are not assessing the situation fairly.
    As Jews, I think we need to just explain to people that there are two sides to the conflict. Its true that the Palestinians deserve better but then so do the Israelis. Most people can see that if it is expressed calmly and in a balanced way.
    Enough of my rant. Just some thoughts.

  • Someone

    “I think that Israel reminds us of our older selves, our pre-EU,pre-green days, when we, too, believed in borders, sovereignty, progress, growth.”

    my god please tell that this was a joke, i think im going to cry…

  • Rehmat

    Brendan reminds me Professor Daniel Bar-Tal’s (Tel Aviv University) 2010 study in which he claimed that an average Israeli prefer to live in ‘self-denial’ as he/she is not interested to know the facts about the Israel-Palestine conflict. They’re brainwashed with Zionist narrative of the conflict and hatred toward Arabs and Muslims from an early age.

    http://rehmat1.com/2010/05/24/study-israelis-prefer-to-live-in-self-denial/

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      This is a perverse reading of the article. I think it says, very clearly, that Israelis perceive western disdain; that this disdain is real; and that it stems from western pessimism about progress and modernity.

  • ruedi bosshart

    what about the occupation of palestine?
    israel – get out of 67 palaestine.period!

    • http://chicagoboyz.net/ TMLutas

      The Israelis got out of Gaza. Did that buy them peace? No. It bought them an ongoing hostile border with ordnance flying across on a regular basis. No country is obliged to tolerate constant attacks. Well, except Israel because they are special. Why is that?

  • Sidney Field

    In related facts, here are the US deaths in Afghanistan, by year:Bush2001: 52002: 302003: 312004: 492005: 942006: 872007: 1112008: 151Total = 558Obama2009: 3032010: 4972011: 4942012: 2942013: 115Total = 1,703Ref: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/dennis-m-crowley/12-year-war-73-us-casualties-afghanistan-obamas-watch

  • Brian O’Leary

    Is it any surprise that libertarians like O’Neill are aroused by settler-colonial states like Israel when they wet their pants over the ‘entrepreneurs paradise’ that was Botha’s South Africa? It’s a shame that this person is disallowed from being an Israeli citizen, Britain could well be rid of this weird little man.

    • Jeffrey Vernon

      You are misreading the article and making assumptions about the author’s sympathies. Nationalism is bad: nationalism is necessary. This dichotomy might explain the antipathy of British people towards Israel. If you have a different view, by all means let’s hear it.

  • Timor Tene

    as a true and sincere citizen of israel i got to say…. OMFG! that’s so fucking accurate! not even israelis like this country anymore. and most of it, is thanks to that old school attitude of all the geriatric wrinkled fascists that lead this country…. well that and the fucking army -> making people stupid

  • Yuval

    In Israel i’m called a self hating jew-leftist-traitor. I genuinely dont like the place, like many other people and from similar reasons. Israelis tend to ignore the direct corallation between the shift in goverment and social policies and the global isolation. Israel used to be one of the most liberal states on earth, with a growing intellectual middle class and i still remember the public commercial advocating tolerance. Ever since the end of the second Intifhada and the retreat from Lebanon in the early 2000’s, the people have been panically looking for new enemies, from outside and within. Leftist are now openly called traitors, Aritrean refugees are treated horribly, and when a soldier being caught doing something bad his accusers usually suffer a lot more than the criminal. freedom of speech is being limited more and more with every single day, and in general the whole place has turned to sh*t very quickly. Of course the right wing goverment will immediately blame the EU for anti seimtism and such, and of course the idiots that voted for them after a very succesful 4 years term which included an increase of 80% in real estate prices, rockets over Tel Aviv, international isolation, numerous corruption scandals etc., will repeat them. Its hard to explain how more funds than ever are being tunneled into “Explanation” (in the western world its called propaganda) and still people hate us.

  • WeNeedPeaceNow

    When the politicians in American government look at the American people who obviously do NOT want war with Iran yet listen to AIPAC jews and still go against the will of over 300 million Americans, then you know that Israel is a problem, a big one, one that can only be solved the way Germany solved their AIPAC style problem when jews took over the German economy and ransacked the German people’s wealth. Seriously, does anyone believe that the Jews of Europe and America were innocent and didn’t do anything against Germany to deserve their holohoax which in fact were about work camps and not death camps. Real history is so different from the jewish LIES of the holohoax perpetrated by the zionist media and the zionist nea which brainwashes American children to believe the fairy tale lies of the jews. These same liars are infesting American government, educational system, and media like they infested Germany. The German people didn’t put the jews into workcamps for nothing just like right now in America the vast majority of those that are responsible for the collapse of the American economy just “happen” to be jews. Yeah, what are the odds? Israel is a corrosive acidic and poisonous force of people that are simply just criminals who hide behind a religion based on usury, theft, and deceit. Their paltry holohoax of 6 million which is in fact 1.4 million that died mainly from allied bombings and typhus is somehow supposed to hide the 180 million European deaths the jews caused Europe with JEWISH RUN COMMUNISM. The reason communism is never openly spoken about or reviled like it should be is because the jews created it and they are responsible for the death tolls it has brought about. Israel is just a continuation of all the evils throughout the world committed by jews. A jew only racist state? Check. Checkpoints for Arabs and others but not for jews? Check. Sterilizing people without them knowing it? Check. Destroying the American people by stealing their money and funneling it into Israel? Check. Using 13,000 AIPAC spies to corrupt and destroy America all while getting American families to die in Israeli wars against the entire Middle East? Check. Getting politicians to give money to Israel while Americans lose everything? Check, Israel – a land of genocidal criminals created on the corpses of innocent villagers, farmers, beduins, and market people who never harmed a single European jew. Israel – A history of lies, deception, and death with a group of Mossad cockroaches who’s motto is war by deception. Only the mind of a criminal jew can war by deception be a motto. Only the minds of 13,000 criminal AIPAC jews running around in congress can justify destroying America and the lives of millions of Americans to support a lazy terrorist homeland of Israeli criminals and land thieves. America is waking up and we Americans HATE YOU ISRAELIS. Go die in your own wars and hopefully the world will cut all ties with you. I, as an American look forward when all countries ban the entrance of any Israeli beyond their borders. We Americans hate Israel. We hate your war monger Netanyahu. Your criminal regime that is directly responsible for 9-11. Your constant hasbara on the internet defending Israel and their looting of our American economy. NO WE DO NOT SUPPORT ISRAEL. NO WE DO NOT WANT ISRAEL IN OUR GOVERNMENT. WE AMERICANS HATE ISRAEL. There is no American I speak with that has anything kind to say about Israel or their warmongering psychos. Israel, if the is a hell, go there soon.

  • WeNeedPeaceNow

    ‘Europe doesn’t like us. Americans do not like us. We can live with this,’ says a kippah-wearing guy at the Western Wall. – As long as the jews can continue to suck the life out of America by using AIPAC to bribe politicians, that’s all they care about. As long as they can siphon billions from America and Europe, that’s all the jews care about. Now the world can see what the Israeli jew cares about, PARASITISM. They know why they are hated and to ask why is simply disgusting. From constant war mongering to using the politicians of America and Europe to funnel money into Israel at the expense of making everyone else dirt poor, that is what the eternal jew parasite of Israel cares about. It is very simple and not really a complex problem. As soon as the criminal jews in America and Europe are arrested and put to death for destroying entire nation’s economies and Israel no longer gets free money and weapons, watch how quickly they will change their tune and become peace loving people with the rest of the world. BOYCOTT ISRAEL.

  • Dave Eboch

    Honestly I hate Israel. They are the biggest threat to the well being of America there is. I just seen the losers at Fox News put on a show about how Israel cares about our vets and that is some bull. They would use every single US soldier for their causes. Americans need to start voting in blocks against pro Israel politicians. If not there will be another major Mideast war because of Israel.

  • d0nj3nko

    Are you serious? What an insult to intelligent people this article is!! Israel is hated by me and many others for their theft of land and murder of its previous occupants as well as the zionist owned MSM that is nearly absolute, and its lies. I shudder to imagine where you get your idea that a country could be hated by others for its nationalistic attitude, why would something like that make headlines, or even news? I know that if Israel persists with its land theft, mass murder, torture of all including children and lies then it will be despised for generations no matter how many lies their network of media tells to the world about its true intention which is a greater israel spanning the land of many countries! I hope things change for their children’s and the Palestinians/surrounding countires sake! God bless us all…

  • Bozeman

    It’s up to each of us to help secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094KY878

  • Samir Halabi

    All I can say about the westerns who hate Israel and only wish to see it’s demise, that they and all their families should have perished in Hitlers Nazi Death camps instead of the Jews. You would then see how differently they would react. These detractors of Israel don’t understand the rudiment of Jewish political history. They can’t get around the idea that not only there were Arab refugees from the former British Mandate of Palestine in 1948 but that the Jewish refugees kicked out or fled for their lives from the Arab world exactly the same time, but that they they the Jewish refugees from the Arab world outnumbered the Arabs from Palestine by almost two to one. All this information however just falls on deaf ears. The Westerners of yesterday many of whom have passed away were however possibly supportive of a Jewish national homeland have been supplanted by today’s people who’s only wish is to see the demise of the state of Israel. The same people that can always find time to demonstrate against Israel, such as the BDS group, somehow doesn’t feel fit to demonstrate against what has happened to the 270 plus Nigerians school girls abducted by the terrorist group Boko Haram or demonstrate against what is happening in the Arab and Islamic world against Christians who are being subjected to such horrific violence, torching of churches rape and murder perpetrated by Muslims the religion of peace, the wholesale slaughter of Syrians by Assad’s regime and the fanatically motivated jihadists who have joined in the war who’s aim is to turn Syria into another evil fanatical Shariah theocracy state. After world war two there was around 50,000,000 refugees world wide, today only the Palestinians hold that title as the Arab world who were mainly responsible for that outcome still deny these people citizenship in the 22 Arab states. They simply are using them as political weapons in order to keep the festering wound open so as to divert attention away from their people of all the ills surrounding their countries and blame everything on to Israel. In 1922 with what was widely acknowledged as the illegal separation of Trans-Jordan, the Jews were forbidden to settle on almost 77% of Palestine, however whole Arab settlement from all over the Arab world went unrestricted and encouraged by the British.
    A travel guide to Palestine & Syria in 1906 by Karl Baedeker estimated the population of Jerusalem at 60,000 of which 7,000 were Muslim, 13,000 were Christian and 40,000 were Jews.

    • Shazza

      Well said – the truth as opposed to the re-writing of history which has been used so successfully to demonise Jews and Israel.

    • WeNeedPeaceNow

      Take your holohoax and shove it up your a$$. The Germans put you sickos in work camps for a reason. You are the scourge of the world and everywhere you go you cause nothing but problems. As an American, I am sick to death of seeing my government hand our tax dollars to your rogue nation of criminals. It’s no coincidence that your kind has been kicked out of Europe over 109 times. It is no coincidence that your kind started communism that resulted in the deaths of over 180 million Europeans. It is no coinicidence that your kind is destroying the American economy just as it has done to the German economy. We Americans are tired of both the Jewish extremists just like the Muslim extremists. You are both the same. It wasn’t Hitler that put the Jews in work camps, IT WAS THE ENTIRE NATION OF GERMANY BECAUSE YOU JEWS ARE NATION WRECKING PARASITES. That’s why. Your kind are now doing the same thing to my fellow Americans. No, we Americans DON’T HAVE TO DEFEND ISRAEL. NO. We don’t want to. PIss off you genocidal freaks.

  • Princess Katy Haynes

    Are you sure this hatred is not just a byproduct of the negative media surrounding the Israeli occupation of Palestine and treatment of the Palestinians? Israel has a history of human rights abuses including the systemic use of torture that many in the Europe and the US and even Australia find objectionable. It is rare to find a positive news story surrounding Israel so the foreign bias may just be due to lack of knowledge of the positive aspects of Israeli politics and society.

  • Jack Falcon

    no one likes them because they are a bunch of psychotic sadist who abuse power every chance they get and declare that “the gentiles have no other purpose then to serve the Jew” THAT is bigotry pronounced by israel’s cheif rabbi and it truly does reflect the mentality of the Jewish supremacist state

  • Jack Falcon

    I see the Israeli paid troll squad is on the job,manipulating the goy is such fun work especially when you get to leech off the american goy tax payer at the same time what fun!

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