Features

Save the male! Britain's crisis of masculinity

It's not just that women are doing better. Men, on all sorts of measures, are beginning to fall behind

3 May 2014

9:00 AM

3 May 2014

9:00 AM

Last week saw another victory in the battle for equal pay. Workers in Swansea are now looking forward to receiving around £750,000 in back pay after the university that employs them decided to close the gender pay gap. Vive la révolution!

The only unusual thing about this case was that the workers in question were men, not women. The male cleaners, plumbers and carpenters at the University of Wales, Trinity St David, had discovered that they earned around £4,000 less than female colleagues.

The idea of women having a rotten deal has become so firmly entrenched in British public life that we have become blind to the problem emerging for the boys. For years now, girls have done better at GCSEs, and this is often treated as a great sign of progress. But if equality means parity of the sexes, then what’s to celebrate about girls doing better?

In fact, in modern Britain, girls are beating the boys at every stage of life — right up until they leave the workplace to have children. The new inequality in Britain seems to start at birth: government data published in November on children under five found girls to be outperforming boys in every one of the official early learning goals, which include listening and attention, understanding, reading, writing, technology and moving and handling.

Girls seem to glide through primary school, while boys trudge. Seven-year-old boys are 7 per cent less likely to reach the expected level in reading than girls. By 11 years old, the gap is eight percentage points. And it keeps yawning wider the older the children get: at 13 it’s 12 per cent; by GCSE, for achievement at grades A* to C in English, the gap is 14 percentage points. While 66 per cent of girls achieve five or more GCSEs at grades A* to C or equivalent, only 56 per cent of boys manage the same.

On to the sixth form, and the gap’s still there. Young women achieved higher scores on average across all qualifications at key stage five. Last year, the average point score per student achieved by girls by the end of their schooling was 740 compared to 706 for boys. But here boys do beat the girls on one count: they get more top grades at A-level. By the end of school, 13 per cent of young men had achieved three A* or A grades compared to 12.1 per cent of young women. So boys do finally catch up with girls in time for university, right? Wrong. Girls also outnumber boys in university applications.

They have also, in recent years, wiggled their way along the pay tightrope. Median annual hourly pay for women in their twenties is £10.60, and for men it’s £10.57.

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When does a woman stop being a rising star? It’s when she reaches her childbearing years: her salary and prospects plummet like a stone. Men are saved, at present, by Britain’s notoriously high childcare costs, which force so many women out of the workplace. That our economy loses the talents of so many women who are willing to work is indeed a scandal. But it’s also a scandal that nowadays men seem to do well only when women disappear, often reluctantly, from the office. Things shouldn’t be like that. What’s stranger still is that this imbalance seems to be written off either as a wonderful leap forward for girls without a thought for the boys left behind, or just as one of those things.

It’s the same in the wider culture: men appear on adverts as hopeless, overweight buffoons clutching a beer in one hand and a pair of barbecue tongs in the other, while the women roll their eyes and organise the house, the car, the family. A friend of mine who contributes enthusiastically to the ‘Everyday Sexism’ project thinks nothing of talking down her apparently less academic (but altogether more pleasant) husband as a dim pie-and-chips type. How do we get away with it when men are (rightly) pilloried for making such assumptions about the opposite sex?

The answer is that we don’t really get away with it. It has a profound impact on men. A study published last year found that from the age of four, girls decide — and think adults agree — that boys are academically inferior. Boys arrive at the same decision aged seven. One London parent I know was thrilled to discover his son was the second-best in his class at school, to be told by the teacher that he was in fact only the second-best boy. The boys weren’t being told what their performance was relative to the girls in their class, because, the teacher explained rather sheepishly, the girls were more studious. The children in question were six years old. The father now has to reassure his son that he can be as bright as the girls.

An unlikely Barbara Castle figure battling on boys’ behalf in Parliament is Labour’s Diane Abbott. Last year, this battle-hardened feminist gave a speech on the ‘crisis of masculinity’. She said, ‘British society has given into a fatalism about outcomes for boys — the “They’re just like that” syndrome.’ She argued, sensibly, that this wasn’t about pitting the sexes against one another, but that British feminists need to worry about the crisis of masculinity too.

Abbott sounded the alarm about boys, but she could reasonably be even more worried about men. This year the Office for National Statistics reported that young men are no longer the group most likely to kill themselves. That is because men in their early forties have taken over as the most vulnerable group. Men in general account for 77 per cent of all suicides in the United Kingdom, up from 63 per cent in the 1980s. The suicide rate for men in their forties is the highest it has ever been. The overall suicide rate is down, but that’s driven mainly by a decrease in women taking their lives — the rate for female suicides has halved since 1981. The male suicide rate has fallen by just 8 per cent since then.

Doctors believe there is a cultural barrier that prevents men from seeking help when they develop mental health conditions, since they think they are still expected to be strong at all times. This can lead to their conditions deteriorating without anyone noticing until it’s too late.

It may be a while before government realises what is going on. The 2012 ‘Preventing Suicide Strategy’ did not suggest any male-specific solutions. The latest update does acknowledge problems among middle-aged men and also suggests establishing community outreach programmes in ‘traditional male environments’ such as rugby clubs. While that’s well-intentioned, it’s hard to think how this would work in practice.

Another life-threatening set of illnesses on the rise among men is eating disorders. These have long been held to be a female affliction. Melissa Benn’s book What Should We Tell Our Daughters? takes the reader on a miserable tour of womanhood, to the extent that a would-be parent might hope that they don’t have a daughter, since life for young women looks so unremittingly bleak. It trudges through chapters called ‘Think Yourself Thin’, ‘The Myth of Perfection’ and ‘How Should a Woman Be?’ But a quarter of those thinking themselves thin (or into another unnatural shape) are in fact men. The last decade saw eating disorders among men rise far faster than among women.

Yet doctors are failing to diagnose and treat these disorders in men. Last month researchers from the Universities of Oxford and Glasgow found that males suffering from eating disorders are less likely to seek early help, because they and those around them are unaware that men can suffer from these conditions. And yet again, men suffering from such disorders are considered more likely to kill themselves than women with the same illnesses.

It’s not just in psychiatry that men are left behind. More men are hospitalised with illnesses which could have been treated by their GPs if they’d attended earlier. They are 33 per cent less likely to visit their GPs than women. They are also less likely to join programmes to help them to stop smoking or to lose weight, in spite of higher rates of tobacco use and of obesity among men.

This is not to say that women’s lives are fantastic these days. They are still earning less and are not able to take advantage of all the opportunities they’d like to because of prohibitively expensive childcare. They are still overwhelmingly the victims of physical and sexual violence. Each week in the UK, two women die at the hands of their partners. Feminism still has many battles ahead before it can stamp out the burning bras.

More than one problem can exist at once, though: life is not a set of scales where if one group goes up, the other goes down. But while our political debate quite comfortably lumps certain problems together as ‘women’s issues’, there is a noticeable reluctance to do the same for men, or to worry about our sons. Last month, opposition MPs and journalists kicked up a stink about the new women’s minister, Nicky Morgan, not being senior enough. Perhaps on the basis of the trends we’re seeing today, we also need a minister for men.

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Show comments
  • Ricky Strong

    I’ll probably get torn apart for this but perhaps the issue with suicide rates among men – which at 77% is staggering – could also be down to the effects of divorce and the diminishing role of the male.

    My favourite judge Jonathan Sumption once said in response to a question ‘I believe in equality of opportunity but not in equality of results’. I am all for women having parity with men, but this social engineering project, whether it be positive discrimination, political correctness or multiculturalism, seems to be fostering an environment where equality of results trumps equality of opportunity.

    • Liz

      You are ignoring the fact that you don’t get parity of opportunity for women when men have spent the precious 30,000 years socially engineering the world.

      Why should women play men’s game by men’s rules? What’s fair and equal about that?

      • Gwangi

        Oh dear, the much-adored myth of patriarchy raises its ugly head again.
        Nature and biology has created men and women different, generally speaking; the physical differences are the least pronounced; the mental and behavourial differences reflect the very different roles males and females perform in life – and performed since humans evolved. It’s all innate and cannot be changed; it is not because of ‘social engineering’ or learned behaviour at all.
        Women has equal opportunity to men; though well-off and ell-connected have substantially more opportunities than men and women far more intelligent and able than they are. You are riding the wrong hobby horse, femi-fan.

        • LW

          Oh for goodness sake, not the paranoid fantasies of the MRA. What Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Afghanistan are today, Europe was for hundreds of years. The heads of the churches are called Patriarchs for a reason.

          Primogeniture where men passed power down the male line is only the tip of the iceberg. They stopped women from speaking in public, from publishing books, from traveling, from joining royal societies, made it illegal for them to work after marriage, made them the legal property of their fathers then husbands, stopped them from standing for parliament, stopped them from voting and much much more.

          • Gwangi

            Oh dear. I think you’ll find that PEOPLE were oppressed for centuries, and men bore the brunt of that too – you seem to think like many grass-is-greener feminist fruit and nut cases that all men in history lived lives of ease and privilege whilst poor oppressed women bore all suffering.
            FYI men did not get the vote all that long before women; read some books and get an education – you seem to be proving my point that females have lower IQs with every risible little post you shriek on this forum.
            Enjoy your life on Fraggle Rock, dear…

          • Liz

            Who’s shrieking? I doubt you can hear anything over your man-baby whining.

          • La Fold

            Coming from the person who blames men alive today for what some men done to other people 30,000 years ago?

          • La Fold

            That was agnatic patrilineal primogeniture. You also got Enatic or Matrilinial primogeniture which is/ has been practised across the centuries around the world. as well.
            It was found across cultures and civilisations in India, in early Chinese dynasties,right across sub saharan Africa, in numerous Native American tribes, South East asia countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia and is very promiment still in parts of Sri Lanka culture. And in Europe it was practised for centuries by the Basques.
            Im going to get you a history book for christmas.

          • Alyson Cruise

            …It’s cute that you think “a bunch of unrelated cultures didn’t do that, so europe didn’t. Oh and the basques who are like thirty people in northern spain who never influenced anything ever.” is a good argument.

            Why on earth do you think patriarchy is about blame? There’s no blame attached. It just needs to be fixed.

            FYI: Psychology has proved absolutely zero mental and behavioural differences between men and women, despite a century of experiment.

          • Rudi774

            Hahaha, they were indeed called Patriarchs (Old Greek for spiritual father). What more evidence do you need? We’re just like Pakistan. Silly comments combined with pseudo-intellectual gibberish makes you English people sound really silly. By the way, can’t you name any female writer, scientist,
            politician, explorer, Noble Prize winner, philosopher from before 1970? What were you doing during all that feminized curriculum? Fantasizing in your boyish absent-mindesness about scoring a flabby feminist?

      • Ricky Strong

        Because that is all it is – a game. Know the rules, know the game and play it. My mother did. From a working class girl who had to cut the tops of her shoes off because she couldn’t afford new ones, to a top 1% earner. She played the game, she played all the dumb men along the way who thought they knew everything, dealing with all the sexism that entails and she got to where she is because she made it happen – hard work, dedication, tenacity and vision.

      • edtastic

        Were you around for 30,000 years to see what people were doing? That’s not even within the scope of recorded history. These gender theories and outright lies by feminists to rationalize ignoring the welfare of half the population to please the other are destructive and bordering on evil. At the very least you’d expect a decent women to have compassion enough for her own sons to realize boys need care too and when those boys become men the will also need care. Stop trying to hold a monopoly on the publics compassion. It might make you feel loved but it’s making men feel unloved and despite your whining recognize men in their prior ‘oppressor’ role spent their time working to provide for women and children. Who the hell rigs a game to put themselves into a coal mine to feed their family?

        • La Fold

          “Who the hell rigs a game to put themselves into a coal mine to feed their family?”
          EXACTAMUNDO!

        • Alyson Cruise

          “some poor guys will have to work in a coal mine” is sufficient reason not to rule the world forever?

      • Whothehell Cares

        You seem to be implying that the mythical patriarchy rules all. Could you please give me the patriarchy’s postal address. I would like to join.

        • La Fold

          Its a rather informal affair to be honest, with it you know, being imaginary, but we have a meeting at the Mens Club for b@stards every thursday, just pop along.

          • Whothehell Cares

            Really, you have a Men’s Club ? How did that get past the sisterhood.?

        • LW

          You’re very simplistic aren’t you.

          I wonder how feminised you’d think society was if 80% of parliament, 78% of journalists, two thirds of health workers, 90% of executive boards of big industry (and so on) was black, Muslim and female.

          Somehow I think you paranoid MRA would be raising merry hell. More than usual that is.

          • Tom Dane

            The paranoid MRA ? what about the paranoid feminists who spend their life talking about patriarchy and rape culture ? (all which dont exist)

        • Alyson Cruise

          Patriarchy has been statistically demonstrated repeatedly in scientific studies.

          It does not require intent and does not describe a shadowy cabal of rulers. It just happens, with nobody actually trying to make it happen.

          At best you’re raising a strawman; at worst, you genuinely haven’t read a single iota of feminist thought, because this is 101 shit.

          • Jios

            “Patriarchy has been statistically demonstrated repeatedly in scientific studies.It does not require intent”

            But feminists do assign intent, otherwise there would be no talk of male benefits, privilege. The implication is that this social order benefits men and that’s why the status quo has existed. That is why feminists want to get rid of it. it’s not simply a matter of counting how many male heads are in government or among the ruling elite. It’s a theory about male power and male orientation that has arisen out of a given set of social conditions.

            Trying to separate the abstraction from its practical implications is a huge mistake with modern feminists and most modern leftist thought in general. And i’ve noticed they tend to only do it when they are being accused of man hating.

            It’s a false pretense at neutrality. There is nothing ‘scientific’ about the way feminists interpret patriarchy.

      • MGTOW 4Ever

        And for that 30k thousand years the Female Gender Excelled and lived because of men protecting them. I would love to see women protecting men.. Common chop chop, you go fight wars, you die from famines, and disasters. Every instance where female was in danger men have took their place. So next time a new “titanic” sinks I expect 77% of all men to survive instead of drowning in the Atlantic ocean.

        • Alyson Cruise

          Fun fact: The Titanic was one of maybe two instances where that “women and children first” drill was implemented. A large reason why so many men died wasn’t because the lifeboats were full, but because the order was so strange and unfamiliar that many men interpreted it as meaning “ONLY women and children”, and so sent lifeboats away that weren’t full, remaining behind.

          If you look at the historical figures for ship sinkings, you find that MASSIVELY larger numbers of men survive overall, with the one or two exceptions like the Titanic making no difference.

          tl;dr: you don’t understand anything you’re talking about.

          • MGTOW 4Ever

            Another stupid comment by a reddit femitard.

            You were not on the Titanic so your anecdotal evidence holds no merit. The statistics are what they are Women lived men died.

            Please give me your citations of mass sinking of ships and every single one of them will show the majority of MEN were the victims.
            I can also point you the same despicable persons that fought for Women’s right to vote shamed young men to go and Die on the battle fields of WW1 through the “White Feather Campaign”

            What next you will perpetrate the Hillary Clinton vote that Women and Children are the primary victims of war?
            *roll eyes*

            TL:DR Stupid comment by a stupid reddit/tumblr feminist still sees her gender as the perpetual victim that they claim to be.

      • Rudi774

        This comment defies deconstruction. But suppose it was men who created civilization –which I didn’t take part in- what does it tell you about the natural order of things? Not even Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall are as deluded a British bonobo chimp.

      • Tom Dane

        You are crazy. its not “mens rules” its the rules of nature. We build society with computers, airplanes etc etc to keep the merciless nature at bay, not to enforce mens rules or the partriarchy. Shit, you need to be left on a deserted island with nothing but your bare hands before you will understand what im talking about.

        • Alyson Cruise

          This is literally what feminists claim. The feminist position is that men’s rules and patriarchy arose AS ACCIDENTAL CONSEQUENCES OF BUILDING SOCIETY.

          plz read more.

    • Mark Dubbery

      77%? That really is absolutely staggering. Is that the rate per annum or over the course of their lives?

      • Ricky Strong

        “Men in general account for 77 per cent of all suicides in the United Kingdom, up from 63 per cent in the 1980s. The suicide rate for men in their forties is the highest it has ever been”.

        Perhaps I should have worded it better but I assumed people had read the article by that point.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          What`s the suicide rate for cyber stalkers?

          • Ricky Strong

            Who is stalking whom?

    • StephanieJCW

      I think one of the main reasons is the concept of “masculinity” and our society’s treatment of men who show emotions.

      • Ricky Strong

        I can only give you my own experiences so forgive me if they are too subjective.

        As a male I have – and increasingly so with age – an impulse to meet a woman, settle down and start a family. For me a part of that process will be to work as hard as I can so that I may provide for my hypothetical wife and children. As a man I have this innate desire to be a provider and a protector. This is perhaps what we could call a ‘role’ for want of a better word.

        I know not everyone subscribes to that idea, indeed many would call me a chauvanistic pig for it, although I have no doubt many men will agree with me. We want to protect and provide but increasingly we are told that is just a typical male idea used to subjugate women, I can assure you it is not, it’s a natural impulse that we have.

        • MGTOW 4Ever

          Maybe you have it. I’ve been raised by women so no I feel no desire or drive to provide nor protect a woman. You don’t speak for everyone.

          • Ricky Strong

            Thats fair enough but I did say not everyone would agree.

            Coincidently I was mostly raised by a women but I don’t feel it has had an impact on me as a male per se. Though I must confess I do seem somewhat calmer than my male counterparts.

    • Alyson Cruise

      Fact: there are no biological differences that should lead to results.
      Fact: women experience consistently worse results in a great many fields. So do, eg, black people.

      In light of these two facts, we elect to use positive discrimination to equalise results because THE LACK OF GOOD RESULTS IS DIRECTLY DUE TO A LACK OF OPPORTUNITY.

      • Ricky Strong

        You can shout and get angry with me all you want.

        My mother made it to the top of her profession despite every obstacle she encountered. She also did this starting with nothing and while raising me single handedly. If she tells me a woman can make it in this country then I’m sorry but I’ll take her word for it.

  • Liz

    Well this was bound to happen.

    The only reason men did better than women up until now was by excluding women from the competition. They stopped us from getting an education, they biased the education system in their own favour, they maintained male-only short lists for political parties and boards, positive discrimination for every other sphere of life, deprived us of the right of free speech, censored out output with an all encompassing form of political correctness, brainwashed us to believe ourselves to be their spiritual, intellectual, emotional and physical inferiors, blamed us for their behaviour.

    Turns out it was all just a ruse to let them hog all the stuff, who knew?

    • Gwangi

      Utter nonsense!
      Women do not ‘do better than’ men at all. Women tend to be middling in IQ and ability and to do what they’re told and always want to please teacher. In our dumbed down education system that means they pass exams, though they only on average as a block do 10% more than boys (and that includes ALL boys including the working class ones who leave with nothing).
      The highest marks in all exams are got by boys who excel in a way women do not even with a level playing field. The finals of Mastermind and University Challenged were all male, and that is no coincidence – men have higher IQs than women on average and achieve because they are bright, talented and work hard (see Manchester Uni research).
      The lie promoted by feminists fantasists that all these men have massive advantages over women is just that – a dishonest, bitter little lie and an insult to all the great work than men do despite massive obstacles and a school system designed for females too, run by women, for women and girls.
      It is ONLY lower class boys who are doing really badly; middle class males do just as well as ever, and excel in ways women never quite can. As Greer herself said: women just don’t do genius.

      • LW

        Women have higher IQs than men now.

      • Mr_Ominous

        It was established long ago that females got lower marks in mathematics and science tests because they struggled with questions that tackled certain mathematical concepts they tended to grasp less well than boys. Those questions were removed or reduced in favour of questions that tackled concepts females tended to be able to answer more correctly. In addition coursework (which females prefer) was added to the final grade of the mathematics and science exams because boys did better in exams than girls. It is not a coincidence that the UK has tumbled down the international league table of educational attainment as females have improved their take of the top grades.

        • LW

          Britain tumbled down the educational league tables after it stopped colonising the rest of the competition.

          Like women, foreigners turned out to be cleverer than British men.

          • Mr_Ominous

            No, we tumbled down the rankings when we started implementing feminist/leftist strategies to artificially increase female educational attainment.

          • LW

            No, we tumbled down the rankings when the competition was opened up.

            It’s easy to be the best at things when you’re the only ones in the race.

          • Slicer

            The rationale from leftists was that because girls did less well in education than boys it wasn’t because they were less intelligent it was because of “bias” in the edcuation system. So the leftists (who had by now come to dominate the educational establishment by the 80’s) decided to re-engineer the curriculum to increase female educational attainment, hence GCSE and A-Level were introduced and rampant grade inflation has been the norm for the last 25 years (and a confirmed dumbing down of educational standards in England).

          • Gwangi

            Indeed, and boy are all those courses dumbed down too. Research has shown that an A in maths A level now would have been an E grade 25 years ago (Hull university). Anyone and his wife and his dog and the dog’s fleas can get a degree these days – it’s all utterly devalued.
            Male teachers have left in droves too. Used to be 50% male teachers. Now 29% and falling 1% each year.

          • Gwangi

            If you were in, China, love they’d lock you up in a place for special flied people innit…

          • La Fold

            Nonsense riding a unicycle!
            China as a civilisation was light years ahead of Europeans technologically, then we overtook them centuries before the age of European Imperialism. Islamic culture was ahead of Europeans culture again, especially concerning mathematics, medicine, astronomy etc before the roles reversed, again well before European imperialism.
            Away and read a book instead of trying to cram the world to fit your twisted dogma.

          • Liz

            Yes and their successes were achieved at times when they ran empires and had the human and financial resources to do so and when their competition was controlled. Just as British men’s were. When Britain was under Roman and Norman occupation, British men produced sweet F.A.

            While Britain had an empire where only British men were allowed to be educated or work or run for office unsurprisingly they did the best.

            Now that is no longer the case, unsurprisingly they are finding their true international and gender ranking. Low.

          • La Fold

            Absolute cobblers yet again. Your vitriol for men would be comical if it wasnt so hateful. So when Britain was ruled from Rome or by the Normans (and the Angles, and the Saxons, and the Danes etc etc) i’ll think you find British “people” did produce materials, tin being one that instantly springs to mind. That is one of the reasons we had trade routes stretching from Cornwall to Asia. So your first point is completely erronous.

            Secondly, you find that under the Islamic Conquests of what now constitutes the Arab world of the middle east and North Africa, the great scientific and philosphical advancements were acheived mostly through the conquest and subsequent assimilation of smaller ethnic/ religious groups such as the Persians, the Zororastrians, Indians and increased exposure to classical works of the greeks.
            I could go on but theres no point agruing with a misandrist like yourself.

          • Gwangi

            Nope. Our schools became girly and silly and Americanised, whereas foreign schools in Asia stuck rigidly to a knowledge-based curriculum and traditional whole-class teaching. Bring back separate boys and girls selective schools and this country as well as kids from poorer backgrounds would benefit enormously.
            We have a silly scammy university system that cons students into getting into huge debt to do silly ‘fun’ subjects such as media and TV studies. Foreigners are pushed to do sciences and 80% of postgrad students here are thus foreign.
            As men on average have IQs 5% higher than women’s and in the top 10% of IQ people, men outnumber women 19 to 1. So if British men are not clever, what does that make British women?
            How many females in the UK do degrees in physics or even A levels?

          • Liz

            Fewer than those who do it in other countries.

            And the UN rapporteur identified why that is.

    • sadmaninagame

      Very mature.

    • Mr_Ominous

      Women cannot compete with men in a free market which is why women seek ever more inference by the government in all realms of society and the economy to ensure they are granted equal outcomes. Women in no way equal men in wealth creation, risk taking and intellectual achievements, which is the basis of creating and maintaining civilisation. Women are in high powered jobs created by men, in companies created and built by men. How many women are in well paid jobs that are the results of female business creation?

      • LW

        Men don’t compete with women in a free market. They compete in an unfree market. They had a very long time to gear the system up to suit themselves.

        • Mr_Ominous

          You are deluded. Women have had decades to match men in business creation and have failed. How many big businesses have been created by women since the 60’s? Why are only 3% of tech company founders women? SME business creation is overwhelming male. Women just can’t compete which is why women lobby the government to interfere in the private sector to ensure equal outcomes. Without the government protecting and helping women in all spheres of life you would be wiped out.

          • LW

            Within a few decades girls have outstripped boys in GCSEs and A’levels and university 2.1s and 1sts, attend universities in higher numbers. Have outstripped male IQs. Have proved themselves to be more effective GPs. They’re better, face it.

          • LW

            And they do it all with babies strapped to their backs in an historically biased system designed to fit their competition, dodging people constantly trying to trip them up. So much better.

          • Slicer

            Why don’t you address any of his points? GCSE’s and A levels are catered to suit females and have consequently resulted in grade inflation and a decline in the England’s educational standing internationally. The majority of female graduates have degrees in arts or humanities, which are useless. Positive discrimination has long been applied to studying medicine (gender normed grading is applied). IQ tests have been biased towards inflating female scores for a long time. Studies have shown that male GPs can see more patients and achieve the same clinical outcomes has female GPs even though female GPs see less patients.

          • edtastic

            School work isn’t real work.

  • zanzamander

    Perhaps nature is preparing for an all female future. Look at the alarming drop in the male fertility rates right across the developed world (where such statistics can be gathered – so we don’t even know what is going on in the rest of the, less developed, world).

    At least in the West, we men have all but given up hope. Although I agree with Diane Abbott (probably the first and the last time) that this isn’t about pitting the sexes against one another, but I kind of get the feeling that nothing is going our way, that we are batting for the loosing side.

    As our role in the society diminishes, we are turning into eunuchs.

    • sadmaninagame

      Though Dianne Abbot is mostly concerned with the under achievement of black males, not white ones.

    • Des Demona

      ”At least in the West, we men have all but given up hope”
      Speak for yourself! :-)
      There is no diminishing of men’s role in society. There is some much needed tinkering on the edges of societal structure but men are men and women are women. Vivre la difference!

    • La Fold

      Speak for yourself treacle!

  • Keith D

    All very good and yes, historically we men have had it all our own way. Evolutionary triggers kept it that way until our society progressed beyond the hunter/ gatherer model and I’m glad of it.
    That we have to some extent progressed to allow equality, at least in theory, is down to our early embrace of organised agriculture, allowing us the freedom to build our societies. Of course, it’s a source of sadness that some have not evolved sufficiently to allow our mothers/ daughters/ sisters a break, yes, I mean you Mo, but we cannot use the vile to excuse ourselves from continuing on this path.

    We are still evolving, and I’m glad of that too. We men should not fear a diminishing role, but welcome the opportunity to fully share our burdens and pleasures with our partners and equals.

    • Mike Barnes

      “Evolutionary triggers kept it that way until our society progressed beyond the hunter/ gatherer model and I’m glad of it.”

      Society has progressed but our brains haven’t. They haven’t changed much in 100,000 years. It’s understandable they are a bit confused and don’t know how to act now. If women don’t need men anymore, what is the point in men?

      • Keith D

        It is understandable Mike. we’ve developed a keener intelligence i would say although our instincts are pretty much the same.

        And despite what some feminists may tell us, women still need us as much as they ever did. Most girls know that.

  • Gwangi

    The workers in Swansea were shafted by the pc university managers who thought they could get them to work a 45 hour week for a lower hourly rate whereas the women in other jobs did 37.5 hours. They deserve their back pay.
    But really, men are not lagging behind at all. They suffer massive discrimination – not employed as much in cushy council papershuffling jobs as women, not being able to live lives of ease as they divorce their spouses and get a free house and 70% of assets for all their years of ‘service’.
    The real thing to notice is just how well boys and men are doing despite massive and legalised discrimination against them, direct and indirect.
    The only boys who are really suffering are working class boys – who are failed utterly by a completed feminised and female-dominated education system. Our schools fail boys, but many boys succeed despite a feminised gyne-centric curriculum and methodology of teaching. End of.

    • LW

      Ah yes. All those men cleaning up the sh*t and piss and blood and puss from human beings in toilets and wards and homes up and down the country. For low or frequently absolutely no pay at all.

      Feminized curriculum, or rather just no longer a masculine one that lead boys neatly from school to male-only colleges to male only shortlists and being the legal head of their family.

      • Gwangi

        I agree. Let’s have a quota of 50% male nurses then. The female nurses can then retrain as street sweepers or sewage farm workers for half their present pay yes?
        The previous curriculum was not ‘masculinised’ at all; it was based on knowledge and proper learning, rather than cheatwork (aka coursework) and feelings-based empathy-obsessed femi-curricula inflicted on boys these days. Amazing really they do so well in a system designed to make them fail.
        Also, the bar has been lowered so now the mediocre and middling pass courses and get certificates (most of this middling bunch are female; males are at the extremes – the most intelligent are almost all boys in every single subject; but more boys leave school with nothing too).
        You are ignorance personified.

        • Liz

          Sure, let’s. The only thing stopping this is men.

          • La Fold

            Oh yes cause there are heaps of women dying to work on the rubbish collection vans or do furniture removals but only its those dastardly men stopping them. Idiot.

          • Liz

            There are heaps of women who want to earn disproportionately high salaries for doing easy work yes.

            What puts them off is the culture stuffed with idiots like you.

          • La Fold

            Oh Liz, I have been away for a while but please tell me oh wise Oracle, what job I do exactly? Oh you cant can you.Then how do you know its easy and how do you know how I use culture to stop women applying for the same job.
            I went to a gladiator school of a comprehensive and had exactly the same opportunities as any woman in this country. Except i was pushed hard and pushed myself hard. So pelase explain how I have stopped any female, any time, any where from getting a high paid job. oh thats right, I havent. You’re obviously still an idiot.

          • MGTOW 4Ever

            Sorry but that is actually women. As soon as men talk about their problems they are labeled Misogynists. If women aren’t the pimple of the world women get upset.

      • La Fold

        So you know the gender make up of every shift in every A&E ward in the UK? Idiot.

        • Liz

          Just look at the stats and stop whining.

          • La Fold

            Stats are like miniskirts, they look very appealing but in reality they hide whats really important.
            Also when you cant answer anything you accuse me of whining and tell me to stop? So in oither words you dont want anyone disagreeing with you. As for whining im not the one that thinks the world is unfair due to a conspiracy by men.

          • Liz

            That’s the best you can do.

            I’m embarrassed for you.

          • La Fold

            Are you? I dont think you are at all. I think youve run out of BS answers to spin out, so now you play the man instead of the ball.

      • wiier9l

        Time to tell the TRUTH about the FRAUD of feminism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4zSRkBMPng

    • Shorne

      If somebody ever asked me for a definition of misogyny I would show them you comments if I could (no wonder your activity is private)
      “divorce their spouses and get a free house and 70% of assets for all their years of ‘service” – that’s what it’s all about in your case isn’t it – but I’m not surprised she left you.

      • MGTOW 4Ever

        You are a turd for brain. Feminism has made men at best Useless ATM machines and at worst Rape Machines.

        • Shorne

          You should say “you have a turd for a brain”. I suspect your success with women is as good as your grammar.

          • MGTOW 4Ever

            I can say what ever I want..
            Shaming with tactics such “your success with women is as good” is null and void with me.

            Check your Heterosexual privilege not everyone in this world likes vagina. Don’t be a homophobic bigot.

          • Shorne

            How do you know that you aren’t being just that Duckie.

          • MGTOW 4Ever

            What? Duckie?

      • MGTOW

        You are the very reason MGTOW exists and is going viral. Please keep spreading your message, because you are going to create more MGTOW followers!

        • Shorne

          Gosh how exciting I’m responsible for a movement of sad, bitter,twisted, emotional cripples who I, and I suspect most of the population, have never heard of. How many have I recruited over the past year then?

          • MGTOW

            This many:
            http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=mgtow

            And, in case you haven’t heard of MGTOW, shaming tactics don’t work on us, because we go our own way.

            Cheers! :)

          • Shorne

            The demand to ‘wanting go your own way’ is one familiar to every parent when their children have a tantrum. The vast majority of course grow out of it, some obviously don’t.

          • MGTOW

            There are those shaming tactics again. I’m not sure how you equate posting logical rebuttals to having a “tantrum,” but if that is what you need to tell yourself about MGTOW, that’s fine. We don’t care either way. Once you go MGTOW, few go back.

            MGTOW = freedom, wealth, and happiness!

          • Shorne

            This acronym it should be MWTOW. Men Wanting Their Own Way, and trying to make emotional inadequacy, inability to adapt to change and total selfishness into a noble crusade. I have seen attitudes like this before for the first 8 years of my career as a Probation Officer I had a parallel role as a Family Court Welfare Officer writing reports in divorce cases where child custody and access were an issue, this was before CAFCASS was set up. In some cases the woman was clearly at fault and I said so and made recommendations accordingly. However in the vast majority of cases the problems arose from the total selfishness, inabililty to change, denial, bullying and violence on the part of the men.

          • MGTOW

            Mothers are the person MOST LIKELY to neglect, injure, and kill a child. You can try to shaming me by implying MGTOW men are “emotionally inadequate.” We don’t care. We are changing the system that marginalizes men by refusing to participate in it.

            Just look at the lowest marriage rates on records going back 97 years or the explosive growth of “MGTOW” as a search keyword on Google:

            http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=mgtow

            Whether you love MGTOW or hate it, it’s not only here to stay, it’s going VIRAL! And as more quality men opt out of the marriage exploitation game, it’s going to really force women to do some introspection about how men are abused and neglected in divorce and by family courts.

            Cheers :)

          • Shorne

            I assume your initial assertion is based on figures like this
            “Children 2.4x more likely to be killed by their mothers, boys murdered more often. The DHHS data shows that of children abused by one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.6% were abused by their mothers, whereas only 29.4% were abused by their fathers.”quoted by ‘Men’s Rights Halifax’ and similar pressure groups. Looking at them they seem convincing until one discovers that DHHS stands for U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services. All child deaths are appalling but the US is different in many ways, the number shot by their parents for example.
            This is from a 2013 UK study by the University of Manchester entitled
            Findings from most in-depth study into UK parents who kill their children “Overall, fathers were significantly more likely to kill their children than mothers, and were more likely to use violent methods of killing, have previous convictions for violent offences, perpetrate multiple killings, and have a history of substance misuse or dependence. The study also reported that victims were equally likely to be girls as boys. Infants were most likely to be victims rather than school aged or older children.”

            Your claim to be changing a system by not participating in it defies all logic.

          • MGTOW

            It is well documented that mothers are the greatest threat to the child:

            “Women comprised a larger percentage of all
            perpetrators than men: 53.9 percent compared to 45.0
            percent.”

            https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/canstats.pdf

            This is the study’s citation:
            Child Welfare Information Gateway. (2015). Child
            maltreatment 2013: Summary of key findings. Washington,
            DC: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services,
            Children’s Bureau

          • Shorne

            As I said America is different and you have avoided mentioning the UK study I cited.

          • MGTOW

            The system *is already changing*. I regularly observe women aggressively pursuing men in local bars. Men are losing interest in women in droves, and women are becoming desperate. Colleges are appalled by the behavior alpha males get away with, because sex ratios are so skewed on campuses. Men are now the scarce commodity. We’re now calling the shots.

            Two local organizations recently tried to hold singles events (one church and one bar). Both events were canceled when over 200 women showed up to “mix” with 12 men in the former venue and just 6 men in the latter venue. Men know dating is a fool’s game.

            They are more interested in video games and pornography than dating women. It’s because women and marriage are simply too toxic for today’s men, and men know this.

            Just Google “where have all the good men gone?” and you’ll see a litany of female authors lamenting the “hookup” culture and the fact that men just aren’t interested in women anymore :).

          • Shorne

            Women were saying this in the 60s and 70s when I was on the dating ‘scene’. You may be more interested in ‘video games and pornography’ but you are not typical, well you are typical of a certain type of male, but what I mean is the figures produced by the Office of National Statistics do not reflect what you are claiming . These figures are never bang up to date but In 2012, the provisional number of marriages in England and Wales increased by 5.3%.
            I now see that your MGTOW ‘movement’ is really a classic example of sour grapes by saying ‘ I lack the emotional and personal qualities to form a lasting relationship but I don’t want to because it’s all the fault of women…so there!’ Enjoy your lonely old age.

          • MGTOW

            Read the Breitbart article with over 20,000 comments about MGTOW:

            http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12/04/the-sexodus-part-1-the-men-giving-up-on-women-and-checking-out-of-society/

            MGTOW is going VIRAL!

          • Shorne

            Funny how you quoted this when the first sentence included a quote by a video games enthusiast. I have found this exchange about MGTOW most instructive and I repeat what I said in my last sentence above. The clear reactionary right wing element is to be expected as well but at least MGTOW might give your kind a less lethal focus than opening fire in shopping centres.

          • MGTOW

            So much anger from this one :).

    • Laura Bristol

      amazing good response, Gwangi. thank you very much!

    • John

      And when you compare the performance of British girls to Asian boys and girls, you see they’re left dead in the water.

      The studies also exclude girls who don’t work and rely on full state support as ‘professional mums’ (benefits, social housing etc, a lifestyle option not available to men) who of course receive support through government initiatives to ‘help’ them back into work.

      And the when they’re working part time in entry level jobs it is of course discrimination if they earn less.

      So any government incentives exist to help advance the interest of men?

      The funniest thing here (and it is laughable) is that what has brought this on (by this I mean articles by women about the needs of men and the issues they face) is women worrying about ‘their’ sons.

      So now not only do women earn more but they retire earlier as well.

      • Alyson Cruise

        You get that benefits and social housing absolutely are available to men, though? Like, you’re literally lying?

        • Eolais Dullahan

          You get that you’re trash though, right? Like, you’re literally Tumblr?

  • alabenn

    the girls were more studious
    Yes they would be, schools are now mainly the realm of female teachers, boys do not respond well to their methods.
    Compare the results of men after university in subjects that require innovative thinking, massively outperforming women.
    Girly teaching at school does not interest boys, that is why they are becoming disruptive and uninterested.
    Boys also start to overtake girls after puberty.

    • LW

      Compare the results of men within a regulated fair environment and an unregulated, unfair one and the men do better in the latter. That’s surprising.

      • La Fold

        And what do you mean regulated and fair? Who decides that? No doubt you. Zoomer!

      • Tim Reed

        You assume that ‘regulated environments’ are fair. Just who is being regulated, and why?

        The only ‘fair’ environment is an unregulated one, in which people are allowed to make their way on their own wits and merits, without some being deliberately held back or even excluded in the name of ‘fairness’.

        I guess you think female quotas and women-only shortlists are part of your ‘fair, regulated environment’.

        • Alyson Cruise

          That’s not what fair means.

          Equal rights isn’t about the right to be equal, it’s about equal right to be. A truly unregulated environment isn’t fair; it’s at the vagaries of chance and fortune, but far more importantly, if we start it tomorrow it starts with massively, massively unequal starting positions.

          Society systematically disadvantages many groups. Minority groups is one, women are another. There’s a great study where you make asian-american women better or worse at maths than a control group of men just by asking them about their race or gender, respectively. These things arise specifically because of social notions.

          Remove all regulation, and you ignore a great many systematic, entrenched power structures that have a massive effect on certain groups.

          Those quotas and shortlists? Still not enough to make it so that there are more than a handful of women in parliament, to pick an example at random. They’re a stopgap measure going a tiny way towards addressing some of the systematic imbalance.

          I mean, maybe you disagree. But the fact that you don’t even understand that this is the reasoning behind such regulations? Strongly suggests you need to read more before you run your mouth off about regulation, mr lolbertarian.

  • LW

    Life’s tough when you don’t have male-only shortlists and positive discrimination isn’t it.

    Or rather when you don’t have quite as much of it as you previously depended on.

    • La Fold

      Never had a single job due to a male only short list or positive discrimination. But hey whatever helps you sleep at night.

  • Mike Barnes

    “It may be a while before government realises what is going on. The 2012 ‘Preventing Suicide Strategy’ did not suggest any male-specific solutions.”

    They probably haven’t even noticed. From my experience with the NHS mental health, it’s a bubble run by women, The mental health nurses are women, the bosses are women, the people who deliver the courses are women. It’s a female dominated environment. It was interesting that lots of the materials they use came from books written by men, and the psychiatrists I met were mostly men, but the delivery is all about women.

    I mean is it even possible to get a public sector job if you are a white male? They have have quotas to fill don’t you know!

    • LW

      Two thirds of doctors and dentists are male.

      • La Fold

        Next time im feeling down Ill book myself in for a filing will I?

      • Gwangi

        Yes, and 95% of surgeons. Many doctors are ethnic males though; and now females outnumber males at medical schools so stop yer moaning Minnie nonsense, Millie!

        People become doctors and dentists – and for that matter engineers, scientists, airline pilots and film directors because of ability, persistence and hard work. Idiot feminists seem to think those born male get these awards free from effort. Sheer envy is what it is.

        Women tend to do people jobs, like nursing, being a family doctor or health visitor, rather than hard abstract scientific jobs – which is the role of surgeons. That instinct is innate and you cannae change brain biology, no matter how you adhere to fake theories of social conditioning which have no basis in fact – they were just cobbled together by wishful thinking feminists to try and explain why women achieve far less than men. You want it to be true so badly I almost feel for you (when I stop laughing at you, I might feel you actually).

        • Alyson Cruise

          We checked, repeatedly; none of what you say is true and there’s no biological basis for those sex differences. They vanish after certain kinds of priming and are entirely absent from many other cultures.

          • Jios

            The science points in the direction that men have more gray matter. That probably explains the difference. That is why men achieve more in science AND in the arts.

      • MGTOW 4Ever

        99% of all Sanitation workers are male, 99% sewage treatment workers are male. 99% of oil field workers are male. Whats your point?

        • Alyson Cruise

          “we must protect women, infantilise them and not allow them to work dangerous or isolated jobs in order to make them dependent on men.”

          “MEN WORK ALL THE DANGEROUS AND ISOLATED JOBS!”

          This is a problem; it’s just not at all like you think it is.

          • MGTOW 4Ever

            Then put in quotas and get lazy women into those said positions. I demand it.. Common Feminists get to it.

  • LW

    Any woman who’s ever worked with men knows that their abilities don’t improve after primary and secondary school and university where girls outstrip them. All women are familiar with watching their mediocre male colleagues waste time while they do the work.

    The only reason men do better in the professional sphere between the ages of 30 and 50 is because women are knocked out of the race at that point by unequal parental responsibilities.

    • Slicer

      Men create the businesses women are working in. If women are so capable why haven’t they surpassed men in business creation? Women haven’t even equaled men in business creation or innovation. This current coalition government is resorting to handing out information packs to parents of girls to encourage them to be more like men, since if women were more like men there would be a million extra businesses. Women are always complaining about having to do hard work and are always looking for a short cut to the top jobs.

      • Liz

        Most small businesses in Britain are started by women.

        • Alexandrovich

          Possibly, but just how many hairdressers/nail bars do we need?

          • Liz

            Whatever, women employ over 50% of people employed by small businesses.

            So that’s another fail.

    • sadmaninagame

      Fantastic trolling there. Complete bollocks of course, but 10/10 otherwise.

      • cartimandua

        Sooo women doing all the caring for kids and then with granny doesn’t hurt their careers at all eh?

        • La Fold

          So all women do all the caring for all the kids in the world do they? Think one of my best mates would strongly disagree with one on that one.

          • cartimandua

            If they take career time out to raise children it is likely that their career will also suffer.
            Work has set itself in opposition to “life”.

          • La Fold

            I do not dispute that fact. I asked you to validate your statement that all women do all the child rearing which you have dodged.

            Secondly, that holds true for anyone who takes substanstial time out of their career. Life is about choices and being aware that those choices have consequences, and that includes having children and stopping work to look after those children.

            Thirdly, work has set itself in opposition to “life” is absolute cobblers. Work enhances life.
            The very fact who are able to sit on a computer, in a cosy building, with central heating and running water and with a starbuicks writing this trite bullsh!t is from the result of other peoples work.

          • cartimandua

            Of course women more often take career breaks to have children. Breast feeding is a good idea. After that childcare costs need about 30K before tax. how many couples earn enough to “do that” and a mortgage.
            I have met men who do the kids. One is retired and his wife is top in a top company. Another is a composer and his wife is a surgeon.
            Several others on lower salaries gave up and went onto benefits.

          • La Fold

            Yes, I have stated that. I fully concur that women more often leave the workforce for to bring up there children, breast feeding is a good idea, but that is an accident of biology, not because as you imply some sort of social engineering or conspiracy by men.
            Not many could I imagine, that is why these individuals make a choice based on whats best for them and their family in that current situation. Some women will leave the workforce, some will return part time or with flexible working arrangements, some will have support from extneded family, some will employ childcare, some will have the man will leave the workforce because its more financially viable, or maybe because he wants to. You see I dont know what each individual thinks, just like you dont.

          • Liz

            The vast majority.

          • La Fold

            So now its the vast majority? And what is the vast majoirty then? 99%, 75%, 51%? Sounds like youre indulging in gender based profiling if you ask me.

    • Gwangi

      Oh dear, it’s Millie Tant back from the dead….

      Females tend to be middling plodders who like to please teacher. In today’s dumbed down world that is all you need to get A grades. But there is no real intelligence there, no risk-taking, no innovation, no imagination. Just plodding mediocrity.

      And if you think doing well in a career as some bimbo salewoman is something to admire or anything to do with intelligence, then I pity you.
      Males dominate the highest levels of all subjects at all levels. Fact. Women tend to be middling and mediocre; but 95% of the stars are male. That’s why most inventors, great writers and artists and film directors, scientists, innovators, business people are male not female.

      • cartimandua

        Did you get A grades? I thought you worked in a bar.

        • Gwangi

          You are obviously semi-literate (no doubt you got A grades anyway through cheating on your coursework). I gave an example of a man who worked in a bar being groped by women and no police action being taken – ever. You see, you get things HALF right – which means you get them all wrong.

          And you know you have lost this argument, which is why you attack the man and don’t play the ball,. Typical femi-whinger.

          And yes, I did get A grades and back in the 80s when only 10% of the 25% who did O levels got A grades too. Not like now when thickos like you get showered with GCSEs and A levels like confetti – because they are all so dumbed down and meaningless.

    • The Blue Baron

      Oh dear. I guess one of the positive features of increased equality is that these days sexist dribble is just as likely to come from women as it is from men.

      • Liz

        Just because it’s sexist, doesn’t make it false.

        • La Fold

          So would you let some one use that excuse for racism or anti semitism? Youre hatred blinds you.

          • Liz

            Jesus do you actually read your own posts you weirdo?

          • La Fold

            Weirdo? is that the best youve got? Youre on the ropes Liz and you know it. So anyone who disgarees with what youre saying is a weirdo now?

        • The Blue Baron

          Do you find it difficult holding 50% of the human race in such disdain? Is it a burden?

          • Liz

            No I find it incredibly easy. Men are helpful in that way.

          • The Blue Baron

            I knew a girl at University who used to talk about “men” in the same way. As soon as she started seeing someone it very quickly changed to: “men are like X, only my Stuart is wonderful, he’s more like Y”.

            It was rather dull and said more about her than it did about the 3.5 billion men on this planet.

    • cartimandua

      Spot on and the trouble with that is that men miss out on actual parenting time.
      A recent club called “dads in the city” is a start.
      What men don’t “get” is that when they are subsumed by work they lose in life.

      • La Fold

        So all “men” dont get this? Im pretty sure most men do get is. I know several men who work on the oil rigs and one big thing for them is that they extra time they can spend with their family. Yes they are awayfor 2 weeks, but then they get to spend 3 weeks at home with them full time which equals more time than an hour in the evening at home and at weekends.
        Also this is a catch 22, we cant win (which I think is the whole point to be honest).
        If we become subsumed with work we are then neglecting family life. In turn because of this we become relatively more successful than our female counterparts.This in turn is then interpretated is because we’re opressing women into “unequal parental responsibilities”.
        Sounds like youve purchased your confectionary baked goods and consumed them as well.

        • cartimandua

          People don’t “neglect” family life. In the main work has decided no one should have a family life.

          • La Fold

            Im calling BS on both points. People neglect family life all the time for a variety of reasons. Pretty sure the mother of Baby P neglected her family life. Secondly, work has not decided that people shouldnt have a family life. If that was the case why are people getting more flexible working hours, help with child care, workplaces with creches, flexible working arrangements, being allowed to work from home etc etc.

          • cartimandua

            I doubt baby Ps Mother worked at all.
            And flexible hours would that be on zero hours contracts?

          • La Fold

            Exactly, that proves my point does it not. She had a family life she neglected and work didnt come into it at all. And no not zero hours. Dont try and play that card, its low and dishonest.

            Things such as flexitime hours, flexi days, working from home, reduced hours (ususally half days or half weeks.) all sorts of arrangements that people can make with their employers now.

          • cartimandua

            Whoever does the childcare cannot afford the childcare in order to do another job.
            There is not enough flexibility to enable parenting and working.
            Most workplaces don’t offer anything.

          • Gwangi

            Why should poor people pay taxes to fund your childcare programme when you earn a lot and own a big house in London worth almost a million quid? Parasite.
            Maternity ‘pay’ should not be paid at all to those who own property worth hundreds of thousands; nor should free childcare be given to such people.
            Maybe then the state would not be expected to pay for women’s selfish ambitions? Maybe then we’d have less divorces and more kids would have fathers. Maybe then more babies would have mothers at home too.

          • cartimandua

            Firstly I don’t live in London and when I was working and had young children no system of childcare coped with commuting and a days work.
            People who could not negotiate shorter hours had to have two.
            Most gave up work. The child care would cost over 30 K before tax.
            If one did live in London it might be possible to get a child to
            a childminder or nursery and still get to work.
            British childcare costs are the highest in the EU and our commutes are the longest.

          • La Fold

            Again, twisting everyone in the worlds life to fit into your view of the world. I know several people who use child minders, manage a full days work and a commute and I live about 500 miles from London. Also the primary reason many people are bothered doing long commutes is for the increase in earning potential.

          • cartimandua

            No you don’t. No childminder will do the 12 or more hours a day that would require. Perhaps the Dad drops off and works later and the Mother picks up?
            Either way it would mean crippling lives with 6AM to 10PM days.

          • La Fold

            Because Childminders are legally not allowed to do 12 hour shifts, regulation being another main contributor to the cost of childcare in this country. This is where the traditional solution of extended family, neighbours, friends, after school clubs etc come into play.
            This is how my mum used to do it with me and I grew up perfectly fine. And again how do you know it’ll be a 6am to 10pm day? You dont, youre throwing up spurious scenarios to justify your (lack of) a point.

          • La Fold

            And what do you mean I donmt know people who do that? Now you know everyone that I know and their work/ life balance do you? You are an idiot. Just because something doesnt fit into your neat little view of the world it doesnt exist? Calling me a liar because you cant prove a point? Low, very low.

          • cartimandua

            The numbers don’t add up? No one can commute a long way and put a child into nursery or childminding to cover it.

          • La Fold

            So you know all the numbers then do you? You know when they start, how many hours they work etc? No, course you dont.
            One lad I worked with used to drive over an hour into work, he would drop his son off at the minders en route and pick him up on the way home. Another mate is a self employed health and saftey auditor so worked her hours around the childminder. Do you want me to provide more examples or do you know everything about them too?

          • cartimandua

            There are limits to childminding /nursery hours. Most people have to begin a commute before 7 which is well before any childcare will take in a child. Picking up off the arriving at 715 is too late as well.
            Perhaps the people you know actually don’t do an 8 hour day and a full commute.

          • La Fold

            Most people have to commute before 7? Where do you pull that one from? Or is that what you think so therefore must be. So what about all the people who work shifts, night time work, 4 days on 4 days off, other alternative work patterns etc?
            This is my point, not everything fits into your little cloistered world. Its a big place out there.
            And yes, the some of the people I do know do an 8 hour day and a full commute, in an area where we are chronically sort of decent roads let alone public transportation so a car is a must.
            Let me put this clearly for you. YOU ARE NOT THE ALL SEEING EYE !!

          • cartimandua

            I can add up. Normal childminding hours are 8 to 6. So either couples stagger their working days or they cannot work AND commute.

          • La Fold

            What spurious nonsense this is. The first line is just gibberish,
            And your last two points are just plain wrong and which you have said to try and justify your previous points.
            Many workplaces offer many flexible working arrangements voluntarily.
            Also if you care for a child or an adult you can legally apply for flexible working hours by making a statutory application for them. This includes job sharing, flexitime, compressed working work, annualised hours, part time work, staggered working hours and a mixture of the above.

          • cartimandua

            We have the longest commutes in Europe and the highest childcare costs.
            Childminders normally work from 8am til 6pm. Now factor in 1.5 hours commute at either end of the day.
            Its not happening is it.
            Cost out of London 250 pounds per week upwards.

          • La Fold

            Your point is caller?
            This is why workplaces are offering more flexible working arrangements for people, both male and female( you know the ones you spuroously denied existed). In fact you could even argue that I am discriminated against because I have no children that I am not offered the same working conditions as those who do, only thing is, i dont care!
            ALso I stated earlier that when you decide to have children it is a decision you must make in full awareness of the consequences that will have, financially, persoanlly, career wise. But that is a personal choice to made by the individual, not for me or you ro make for them.
            My god daughters mother voluntarily left the work place to specifically look after her child, because for her and her husband it made sense for them Human beings have been able to work this out for them selves for thousands of years, they dont need misandrists like yourself telling them what they need or want.

          • Gwangi

            Baby P died because a female social worker in a department run by a female head abided by the new religion of always keeping a baby with its mother, however unfit she is. In the past such babies were taken away and adopted by suitable families – 3 boys in my class at school were adopted; now only around 150 babies come up for adoption every year in the whole of the UK – because of the cult of keeping the baby with the mother – always. Feminist ideology thus killed Baby P.
            Oh yes, and the doctor who failed to recognise that he had broken bones when examining him was an Asian female too.
            But hey, according to the sick and twisted ideology of misandrist feminism, whenever women do wrong, it’s men’s fault too, because of the very convenient and cobbled together excuse theory of the ‘patriarchy’. Tsss.
            And if private companies want to give benefits to women workers, fine – but tax payers should not pay a penny to fund rich women to have children, free childcare, time off etc. It costs this country billions to pay women generous maternity leave and benefits – esp in professions like teaching which are now 70%+ female. £4 billion a year, I think. Spent on parasites.

          • Terry Field

            Who wants to spend time with these monstrous amazonian women?

    • edtastic

      If a women wants a man to raise her children while she works then it’s her responsibility to go find one. I’m sure plenty of men are up to the task and willing to take the job but they probably won’t be as ambitious and high achieving as the women doing the asking.

      Simply bashing men to get your way with men isn’t a constructive approach. Women must organize their lives to achieve what they desire. More realistically what’s happening is women are choosing to leave work for home life after selecting a man who they figure could provide well for the family. To turn around and ask that man to abandon his career would be silly. Better you find a man who may not be a great provider but would make a fine nurturer. If women did that we’d see some real cultural change.

      • Liz

        Men’s behaviour, women’s responsibility.

    • Terry Field

      Women have a serious problem; in the creativity department; in every sense.

      • Liz

        Most of what men create is just time wasting. A glut of ball kicking, daubing, warbling, strumming and labelling.

        Much of the rest is destructive. A glut of weaponry, pollution and eye sores.

        What women created was useful and helpful. A glut of intricate crafts, clothing and nourishment.

        • Terry Field

          Yes the nurturing bit and its domestic output as identified in your odd note is worthwhile; but you fail in the central argument. You cannot deny the immensity of male creativity – all you do is sneer at a tiny element if that vast creative force, by referencing against your own suburban safety-first milksop prejudices. In retrospect, a pathetic response. I hope more of your sex can do better than that.
          I bet you are an unconvinced dyke.
          As for nourishmnet, that is in no way a female preserve, and M Blanc can attest. I bet you are a gravy granules ‘cant cook won’t cook lost the bra would burn it if I weren’t afraid of matches’ type.
          HA Ha.

        • Tim Reed

          “Most of what men create is just time wasting.”

          Automobiles, trains, planes, houses, office blocks, roads, rail, computers, communications networks, sewerage systems, the electrical grid, power stations…and on…and on…

          Your comfortable life, free of arduous struggle, is possible only because of the hard, backbreaking labour of men.

          Your ignorance of the world around you is staggering.

          Narcissist.

    • Gwangi

      Utter piffle. Men out-perfrom women in every sector and every time. It is women who are the mediocrities and middling jobsworths – I have seen that in the education system, which is stuffed full of such sheep. Visit your local council to see more. Women are good plodders so are perhaps suited to low level jobs. Oh how women love to play the martyr and moan about men though! They like to think the world would fall apart without them – but the fact is, it wouldn’t. It would be more efficient, less emotionally incontinent, and there’d be a heck of a lot less pointless nattering and waffle around. Oh and TV would be better too if we flushed away all the emotional pawn produced for the easy meet of a mostly female TV audience.
      The top 10% in IQ and achievement is massively dominated by men – on merit. There is NO unfair discrimination against women – that is such a convenient red herring for feminuts innit?

      • Liz

        Except they don’t outperform do they. They are outperformed.

        And there is demonstrable unfair discrimination against women as has been demonstrated by double blind trials in the selection process. To take one example, when the sex of applicants to orchestras are known more men are selected, when they perform behind a screen, fewer men are selected.

        • Gwangi

          No, males DO outperform because the top levels of every single subject and career are dominated by men. Lower the bar to allow the blob of females in the middle to pass, by pleasing teachers and plodding, and lo, you will get a higher female average.
          You clearly haven’t got a clue how averages work. The average stats also include all the boys who leave school with nothing.
          Same with the ‘gender pay gap lie’. That is cobbled together using averages in order to promote the lie that there is unfairness in pay because of gender discrimination. There is not. Same job same experience = same pay. Women earn less on average over a lifetime because they work less and take fewer risks so tend not to work in risky high powered careers; they rarely reach the top because men are better at those sorts of jobs. Women claim much more benefit on average than men too – so why not a campaign to close the benefit gender gap eh? Oh yes, I know, because women get far more there eh…

        • La Fold

          Christ, even the conbductors are in on this conspiracy! Youre like a feminist david icke!

          • Liz

            It’s not a conspiracy, it’s unconscious bias.

  • La Fold

    All this talk of patriarchy by middle class university educated white folks really urinates over my pomme frites.
    Come and see the young lads I work with. Come and see the places they come from, the housing schemes they grew up in, the schools which spat them out barely being able to read and write properly, the families they come from, the day to day life they lead and the fact that for most of them they will never be any escape from it. You know the sort of places middle class university educated white folk would never dream of setting foot in or people they would ever care to speak to.
    Then go and tell me they have socially engineered the competition for the last 30,000 years.
    If you replace the word men with Jew when talking about the Patriarchy…

    • Gwangi

      Yes indeed. Is any group more oppressed and discriminated against in British society now than working class white boys?

      • La Fold

        They dont deserve their own card in victimhood top trumps. Except when people want to show just how caring they are and want to stand up for their rights (but would cross the road to avoid them at the same time)

      • edtastic

        The working class white boys deserve equal compassion and respect like everyone else. Showing contempt for one innate demographic creates systematic and institutionally endorsed hate.

        • Terry Field

          Ys, and that is how life is, little lady.

      • La Fold

        definitely the most marganlised, id even go as far to say those at the very bottom who form an underclass get preferential treatment to those who are unfortunate enough to have to live and be educated in these sink estates. The behaviour of the worst is often excused by well meaning but misguided social workers and so they get sent off to a specialist school or on camping trips to improve self esteem from the mugs of tea and sympathy brigade. Its the young lads who do behave and try to stuggle out of these places who are the most sidelined.

    • Alyson Cruise

      Are you literally joking?

      “Poor men are disadvantaged. This is because they are men.”

      has it occurred to you that science has consistently and repeatedly established that all the things you are describing are effects of being poor, and also shown that they are not effects of being men?

      Feminism’s actual literal centerpiece academically is the acknowledgement of systematic discrimination on axes other than gender, for example class and race. It’s been studied repeatedly; eg, Moradi and Huang 2008 showed that objectification is more harmful to women than men, but more harmful to black men than white men. That you don’t know this makes you completely unqualified to use the word “patriarchy”, let alone present analysis of the concept.

  • cartimandua

    By 2017 there will be more female doctors than male doctors. So when you whine about those “awful” women in the lift the woman hearing you whine might be the surgeon you see as you go under.

    • edtastic

      What is your point and what does that have to do with this article? Nobody is whining about awful women, it’s women’s activist whining about awful men and indeed one of them could be their surgeon. .

      • cartimandua

        Oh yes they are have you read the comments? If we are to have a useful conversation about how to make peoples lives better it cannot be about some sort of competition.
        What are men to do when there are fewer jobs labelled “men”?
        What can all those men do who used to work in heavy industry?

        • Gwangi

          That is about working class boys – and yes there is a problem there because unlike working class girls they cannot just shack up with a man to pay for them while they have babies. If they do that, they are disrespected by men AND women too.

          Having said that, the crisis caused by industrial decline is not just for men – most women (normal ones anyway, not nutty feminists who hate men) – have lives which connect with men, who are their fathers, brothers, husbands, partners and sons; so unemployment for men hurts women too.

          Try visiting many post-industrial parts of the UK. I know feminists gravitate towards meeting rooms in Hackney and Islington. But if they stopped their inane waffle and travelled out into the real world where women and men live, they’d see that for many ordinary women, life is pretty rubbish these days. So gleeful celebration at any pain and abuse suffered by men coming from feminists is simply vile and vindictive nastiness. So why support such witches?

    • rorschached

      And female doctors .. are more likely to drop to part time and retire earlier. There’s already a problem with unavailable staff now, imagine what it’s going to be like with even more female doctors in future.

      • Gwangi

        Good point. I suppose we’d just have to ship in more foreign doctors who can’t speak English and who cheated in all their exams at the university of Al-Cheater somewhere in Africa or Asia, or else bribed their tutors for pass marks…

        If anyone doesn’t think that happens then they know nothing of how universities work in the developing world.

    • Gwangi

      GPs, yes, because that is a people job.
      Not surgeons.
      Buy a dictionary. Look up those words. Learn the difference.
      A surgeon is a high end career and it takes 12 years of hard graft to become one; it is a highly technical role which needs 1) spatial awareness and 2) an excellent grasp of technology, and 3) utter decisiveness and 3) risk-taking based on 5) utter individuality (not group work and consensus) – 5 things women tend to b e rubbish at. That’s why 95% of surgeons are males and that figure won’t change much in future.

      • cartimandua

        Well the female Consultant vascular surgeon I know has a musician husband. That’s what high achieving women needs a husband who will deal with all things domestic.

        • Gwangi

          You are using anecdotes here. I am using facts and evidence.
          95% of surgeons are male. 5% are women.
          Do you understand or are you a slow learner? Many women do so struggle with numeracy, I know. Apparently well over 40% are functionally innumerate…

    • Slicer

      Thanks to positive discrimination for the last 25 years there will be more female doctors than male doctors. Female GPs are already complaining about being “burned out” by the number of hours they have to work. When there aren’t enough men to pick up the slack in the NHS anymore I think it will be then that the realisation the social experiment of artificially enforced female superiority (aka equality) has been a failure will become apparent.

      • cartimandua

        It has nothing to do with “women”. Population has gone up by 10s of millions over the past few decades. Infrastructure and training places havn’t kept up at all.

  • cartimandua

    What it boils down to I guess is we are not educating men for life. We need Carpenters who read Proust. There will be periods of unemployment for us all and retraining throughout life.

    • La Fold

      I work in a fabrication shop and have read Proust, in French, so there you go.

      • cartimandua

        Well that’s the ticket. Under Labour culture was considered far too middle class for “the workers” yet not long ago in this country “the workers” very much had access to culture and used that access.
        That’s the social glue we need and peoples solace when jobs have to change or are dull.

      • Terry Field

        Wot fabryk do you werk with, Gingham ?

        • La Fold

          I prefer a much coarser material such as tweed.

    • Terry Field

      Bullshit. You need carpeners. And women who cook. Sod Prooooost.

  • 013090

    The big problem is that primary education is inherently taught in a way more directed at girls than boys. Boys are naturally more active and less calm, more easily distracted, and hence sitting them down in a desk all day while we reduce recess and creative tasks is naturally more detrimental to boys than girls. Additionally, primary school teachers are overwhelmingly female, and teach in a way that is more directed towards females.

    These result in an advantage for girls. Then this builds on itself as from all corners of society, boys are told they aren’t as smart as girls. Boys believe it and hence value education less.

    We know from IQ tests though that this is false. The average IQ by gender is fairly equal (studies vary, but most show a very slight edge for males, though not statistically significant). Additionally, male IQ is much more skewed. As in, males are disproportioately represented in the low and high IQ quartiles. Both the higher and lower you go by percentile, the more male the group will be. So the total outcomes of a class should be equal when averaged by gender, but both at the top and bottom males should be disproportionately represented. When the top of a class is dominated by girls that is indicative of an educational deficiency.

  • Jerome Barry

    Women are much better at bitching against men than at bitching for men.

    • Liz

      The Internet is one huge male bitch fest.

      • Gwangi

        Fabricated pity party victimhood again. You are living (if peculiar) proof that women indeed do use the internet.

        And the biggest B fest of all is feminism – because boy do feminists hate women! They are uber-misogynists, perpetually disappointed and appalled that most women are not manhating twisted bitter sicko feminist fruit-and-nut-jobs as they are.

        Men get as much abuse as women; the difference is that men do not burst into tears and run off to the police demanding an arrest because someone called them what they in fact are.

        (our police are utter pc eejits too and have a massive gender bias against men; most are thick and lower class, so they have that outdated chivalry thing going on; they also want to boost arrest stats so arrest thousands of innocent men every year for saying rude words online – and because of spiteful and vengeful complaints by their evil exes. Good for men who post their naked photos online, I say! What’s good for the goose… Men are just learning how to be as spiteful and vindictive as women maybe…)

        • Liz

          Stop bitching.

          • La Fold

            Bitching? A disgusting misogynistic term used to demean women by comparing them to dogs. Sexist.

          • Gwangi

            HAHA!
            LOL!
            Great!

          • Liz

            Still bitching I see.

          • David Murphy

            Still lacking the intelligence to do anything but throw childish insults I see.

          • Liz

            Still bitching?

          • La Fold

            Is that the best you got? Grab a napkin love, you just got served!

          • Alyson Cruise

            Jo Freeman, The BITCH Manifesto, a seminal 1969 feminist text by one of the founders of the woman’s liberation movement.

            Terms like bitch? They’re bad because of the power structures that accompany them. When you use it to a woman, because you’re the power group, it has actual harmful effects that are scientifically demonstrated. When a woman uses it to you, because you’re the power group, it has absolutely no effect.

            But hey, don’t concern yourself with arguing with what feminists actually think, it’s so much easier to just work yourself into a froth with a bunch of absurd lies with no resemblance to anything any feminist has ever said or thought.

        • Alyson Cruise

          Here’s a fun fact: we checked scientifically and all the things you are describing are artefacts of your perception with no basis in reality.

          • Jios

            And feminists don’t engage in confirmation bias either? Give me a break. Feminism is not scientific, and neither sex really understands what it’s like to be in the shoes of the other. The difference is that feminists are trying to monopolize the discourse. You have no idea what it’s like to be a man.

      • David Murphy

        As many women on it now as men, and the women have no equal when ti comes to bitching and whining.

        • Alyson Cruise

          Fun fact: according to scientific study, if you get a woman and a man and have them hold a conversation in which the man talks twice as much as the woman, listeners will think the woman talked twice as much as the man.

          According to other scientific studies, the exact same behaviour in men and women is perceived entirely differently; for men, “assertiveness” and “knows what he wants” are the terms used to describe what is called “bitching” or “whining” when a woman does it.

          So: there are two reasons why you might think like this. And scientists checked and “because it’s true” is definitely not the reason.

  • Terry Field

    Britoland is a super-feminised society; it starts at school with an all female set of employees, feminised curriculum and feminised foods.
    Most men are pathetic little mice, frightened to do or say anything that might express a male drive; the women by contrast are a low-voiced, strident, tough sounding bunch of men-with-breasts; focussed, in charge of their reproduction, supporters of massive abortion on demand, equal and proud of it. The men are so cowed by these amazonian horrors that a fair number give up and shack up with other feminised men; they then call themselves ‘gay’. WHAT a misnomer.
    The place is, in fact a super urbanised frankenstein-like social experiment, utterly unlike any other society on earth, except odd bits of North America. Its values are entirely disconnected from the past; it loves itself and preens its bigotry; it is, in short, a modern nightmare of how not to order a society; it is hardly surprising that it gets up the noses of huge numbers of more normally adjusted people.
    But God it LOVES itself.
    And that is what makes it so bloody funny to watch from, thank goodness, afar.

    • Alyson Cruise

      [citation needed]

      • Terry Field

        What citation required? It is my note.

  • Clive Mather

    Until about 30 years ago, boys and girls got about the same number of ‘O’ Levels, although there was a bias towards arts/humanities for girls and towards science subjects for boys. Boys’ superior performance in science was clearly the result of outrageous discrimination and strenuous efforts were made in a number of ways (including direct Government action, e.g. through the Technical and Vocational Education Initiative) to improve science and technology teaching for girls. Boys’ inferior performance in subjects such as modern languages was not addressed. Surprise, surprise, girls steadily increased their lead over boys.
    The underlying logic is simple. If you take any two groups, lets call them A and B, and only ever correct the weaknesses of A, then A will eventually be superior in all respects to B. This will happen even if group A is initially weaker in all respects than B. To achieve anything like equality (I use the word to mean ‘parity of achievement and opportunity’ not as the name of a piece of political machinery), it is necessary to address any relative weakness in both groups. The result of course would be a steady improvement for both A and B (if something like GCSE numbers were plotted on a graph there would be two entwined wavy lines with the trend upwards as time went on).

    • Gwangi

      Yes, true – but boys still massively perform girls in maths and science; the reasons are innate and to do with fixed evolutionary brain structures. As David Attenborough says, it would be rather odd if hundreds of thousands of years of evolution left male and female brains and behaviour aptitudes exactly the same, seeing as males and females perform utterly different roles in life – which would have been far more noticeable 100,000 years ago than now.

      But the real reason why girls as a whole do 10% better than boys overall (though that’s just the average) is because the c=bar has been lowered, allowing the mediocre and middling to pass exams (often via cheatwork aka coursework high scores). That middling group is mostly female, so when the bar gets lowered and our system gets lax and dumbed down, that advantages people in that middling section – i.e. girls. Plus, we have a feminised curriculum, teaching methodology which emphasises female traits (talking, group work, waffing about feelings, empathy) instead of hard facts and knowledge – and doing stuff – which boys love.

      I would send my sons to a boys only grammar school to avoid this piffle. Sadly, primary school are gyne-centric and silly to a massive degree and many boys leave them unable to read, write or count. That is a disgrace.

      • Liz

        If the reasons are innate how come you get such variance between different countries?

        • Gwangi

          False argument.
          In all countries tested (except Mexico, which had dodgy flawed research), IQ testing has shown male IQ’s are on average 5% higher then women’s; there are twice as many men of above average IQ than women; and 19 out of 20 of those in the top 10% of IQ levels are men. Manchester university research. Look it up and stop making up convenient ‘facts’ which are nothing but opinion masquerading as fact.
          Males and females are innately different – real brain differences. The body differences are minor in comparison. Women are not good at maths or science anywhere in the world.

          • Liz

            Of course men and women are innately different. That’s why we need 52% representation of women in parliament and so on. At least. Because women are also innately better.

          • Gwangi

            No, we need representation through merit – and around 20% of women in parliament seems about right when based on that.
            No way do we need half of MPs to be women; and no way do male MPs discount women’s issues – in fact they constantly pander to them and the female vote, which is why we have absurd policies to pay millionaire women maternity pay and child benefit, and much else besides.

          • Alyson Cruise

            Okay, one, that’s just not true: cite your source.

            Two, research has also repeatedly shown that IQ tests are consistently biased against women; eg, to pick just one small part of the problem, asking men to name their gender is irrelevant, but asking women to name their gender at the start of a test primes them with societal stereotypes and makes them less logical and worse at mathematical reasoning.

      • Alyson Cruise

        Nope, we checked.

        You can actually make women better at maths than men by telling them the test is designed for women, even when it’s not. You can make them worse at maths than men by reminding them that they’re women; you can make them the same as men by making sure they aren’t reminded. You can make asian-american women BETTER than men by telling them they’re asian, and WORSE than men by telling they’re women.

        In short: science says you’re wrong. It’s entirely social and can’t possibly be biological. Just like the idea that empathy is a female trait is probably not biological – there are things like the massive underdiagnosis of autism in women that clearly show that people think empathy is a female trait, even if it’s not. Project Implicit has demonstrated clearly that people think women are worse at sciecne, even though they’re not.

        What’s going on is that society tells men they’re not academic, but sporty and physical. It’s got nothing to do with biology.

  • cartimandua

    Gosh I hope Gwangi has no daughters.
    Systematizing brains occur more often than empathizing brains in males but they are not gender specific and not “superior”.
    So you do get “women who can do Maths and science” My late step Mother was top in her field, Her daughter is a Professor of Maths at a University, and her daughter is going to do Mechanical Engineering.
    What education in this country has not done well enough is provide excellence in education for those with spatial aptitudes.
    I believe the Germans and the Swiss do. My poor son not doing a Masters in Engineering had to struggle through subjects where he was obliged to write essays on subjects which bored him stupid.

  • cartimandua

    So bye bye comps and hello some high achieving technical schools. Even science Grammar schools don’t get enough funding to do all the courses they want to do.

    All this seems complex but it certainly isn’t a one size fits all comp.
    Swiss education

    http://www.about.ch/education/index.html

  • Liz

    Yesterday some research was released that showed the marriage vow of “in sickness and in health” only applies to women. Twice as many marriages end when the wife gets seriously ill as when the husband does.

    Laziness isn’t confined to school, university and the office it seems.

    • EschersStairs

      Demasculinise males and they won’t behave like men, they’ll behave like irresponsible children.

      • cartimandua

        OOh I don’t think anyone has “demasculined” anyone. What has happened is becoming an “adult” has been delayed and delayed.
        Education and training has become something people do for a long long time. Contraception saves womens lives but it has also allowed men to Peter Pan.
        Why men don’t have emotional strength yet women do is a bit puzzling really.

        • La Fold

          When will you stop plying your nonsense in vast sweeping generalisations? You know nothing about me, my life or pretty much anyone elses here but you deem to know how much emotional strength i or do not possess by the mere fact i am of a certain gender.
          Heres a thought, how about you start looking and dealing with the spark of humnaity that exists in each and every person? I know i know Im a dreamer…

        • Gwangi

          Utter piffle. Women never stop boasting about how ’emotionally intelligent’ they are, but there is no such thing.
          All the greatest love stories and love songs have been written by men. Because men don’t natter about their emotions like the self-indulgent self-obsessed 12 year old girls most grown women resemble these days does not mean there is anything wrong with their emotional responses or awareness; but scans have shown that women are incapable of turning off the emotional areas of the brain, which men can. Probably why men are so much better at science, maths, high achievement etc.

      • Liz

        Men in (more) patriarchal countries behave like psychopathic children. They’ve reduced their countries to rubble.

        • Gwangi

          I think you’ll find that PEOPLE have done that. The women encourage and egg on their sons and menfolk to fight – as indeed do women in simple street and pub fights in the UK. Remove the women, and the world would be at permanent peace.

          • Liz

            No I think you’ll find that the refugee camps are full of women and children and the psychopathic baby men are fighting over what’s left as they have done since time began.

          • Gwangi

            Nonsense. Women are as culpable as men for wars and conflict – the boys and men fight for the women and because women encourage that, just like women did in World War 1, handing our white feathers and accusing men of cowards if they were not in uniform.
            Women are not perpetual victims in the real world; they are in your twisted fraggle rock brain though.
            You are infantilising women too – making them into permanently vulnerable children – and that, love, is misogyny.

        • EschersStairs

          Depends what precisely you mean by patriarchy.
          If you mean inequality of value, and non-equivalence of roles then I would have to agree with you.
          By contrast, what some seek is equality of value, and equivalence of roles – which I find intellectually bankrupt.

    • Gwangi

      Most divorces are initiated by women (70%+) who know a cash lump sum and a free house when they see it. They know courts are massively biased against men as they still abide by outdated chilvalrous traditions.
      How many men can even get to see their kids if mummy wants to be an evil and vindictive so and so (hell hath no fury indeed)? The mother is all powerful. No wonder some men crack and take action in the face is such institutionalised anti-father judgements.
      But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good femi-myth eh…

  • cartimandua

    I suppose one explanation is we no longer have large male bonding groups such as military service units or trade unions. Such organizations would both offer men supports and set “values” about behaviour.

    • Gwangi

      Yes, so why are feminists so obsessively against any organisation where men want to be together without women, while at the self same time defending their own exclusively female groups which exclude all men.
      Feminism = selfishness + hypocrisy.
      Men tend to be far more individual than women who tend to need the security of a group, Evolutionary behaviour, that. Innate. Women are unconfident and always need support – they need to natter in groups too. That is the social glue on the caveman’s home – women looking after babies and bonding whilst doing menial monotonous jobs together while men are out hunting and leading and building stuff.
      Values about behaviour? What about women’s values? Using and abusing children to get back at their father, for example? Lying to get their ex arrested? Lying to get full child custody? Many more examples.

  • pdeacon

    Wise words. Men today are made to feel inadequate if they aren’t at least six feet tall, “handsome,” have a six-pack, bulging muscles,”charismatic” and can’t be fazed by anything. They aren’t allowed to have any weaknesses. They’ve all got to be James Bond, but not everyone can be like him. It’s still socially acceptable to ridicule short men because they don’t fit into this “ideal man” stereotype https://twitter.com/heightismreport Nobody talks about this and it’s about time somebody did.

  • cartimandua

    Look for the first time in our history we don’t have most men having military experience and or experience in farming or industry.
    All of those things created frameworks of support and imparted values.
    Gold clubs wont do it.

    • Gwangi

      Values are not gender specific. They come from wider society and parents mostly.
      Friendship and camaraderie are different; and of course feminists are anti-any male only contexts at all, yet pro-female only clubs. Why? Intolerant hypocrites non?
      And feminists detest the values men do have anyway; they naturally see female ways of doing things – constant discussion and consensus (i.e. indecisive dithering and over-emotional behaviour) as being normal, and anything that veers away from that as being somehow wrong or abnormal, But maybe its the other way round eh? After all, it wasn’t women whop invented everything and built civilisations.
      The ‘crisis’ in masculinity is mostly a media concept, however. Though the way men get abused in divorce cases and family cases is blatant gender discrimination.

  • cartimandua

    Men seem to have lost traditional values along with that group support. That is why
    there is so much mean and small minded behaviour from men.
    There are no longer male mentors showing decent behaviour and validating it.
    Labour and the Left always thought “manners” were too too middle class.
    But keep going Gwang you couldn’t be more of a misogynist if you tried.
    You sure are showing everyone what the problem is.

    • Gwangi

      You are the misandrist and most women disagree with your manhating meanspirited and absurd views. You do know that, don’t you?
      Mean and small minded behaviour from men? In an age when many women deliberately divorce men for no good reason and then stop fathers seeing their own children, whilst abusing those children, exposing them to risk and hitting them and verbally abusing them constantly? There are no longer any decent female mentors showing decent behaviour and validating it – that statement is as valid as yours.

      I find the picture used for this article funny. Have you ever – I mean EVER – seem a woman lifting black rubbish bags? Maybe we should have a 50% quota for women to do all dirty and dangerous jobs eh?

      And don’t give me this ‘women are not as physically strong as men’ BS. Women are on average 10% less physically strong than men- that is all (we are not gorilllas) – and are perfectly capable of carrying heavy bags, especially when they contain shopping bags chock full of boutique purchases paid for by their husbands.

      • Liz

        I always empty my bins. If I left it to a man it would be strewn all up the street.

        • Terry Field

          Add to the quality of life in your street.
          Why not throw yourself into one of your bins?

          • Gwangi

            LOL
            HA HA HA!
            Great!

          • Liz

            Improve the qualify of life on the Internet. Throw yourself into a different obsessive man hobby.

          • Terry Field

            Oh dear, that is a clunky response, heavy and leaden don’t you think?
            Does the industrial construction of the sentence and the weary choice of words betray a lack of creativity?
            Over to you, Lizzy baby!

        • Gwangi

          No dear, that’d be the seagulls. You can recognise them easily – they have wings, white bodies, beaks, beady eyes, and they squawk almost as much as women…

          • Liz

            No dear, that would be the lazy men. I recognise them because they look like men.

  • cartimandua

    Gwang every time you type a bit of bile everyone can see why people like you are divorced and why no one would want you near any children male or female.

    • Gwangi

      Oh listen how the empty vessel makes the most noise. Or, in modern parlance, you love are evidence that most of the noise comes from the shallow end of the swimming pool.
      I would never ever be stupid enough to get married, so how can I be divorced? Yet again the ad hominem attacks from the sisterhood as it spits its venom and rage at anyone who refuses to kowtow to its fabricated tales of gender discrimination or join in its red herring pity party about the oppression suffered by women.
      It’d be funny really if it wasn’t so sad. These sisters must have really had bad experiences with men that have been the main factor in how their little lives have turned out. I just hope none of these mad manhating feminists have sons – being brought up by such a mother IS a definition of child abuse.

  • Donna Sherwood

    well the ladies finally got what the wanted. boys have always, at early stage learning, been slower. Schools need to be sexually segregated and teaching methods tailored to different needs. Males have always picked up in secondary and higher education and predominated. This was a non issue commonly observed and commented on by average housewives of the 50’s and 60’s. Now that our current crop of social engineers have decided to “fix” what was not broken we see the result of their tinkering. i am 64 and have a group of very successful female friends in professions all who say there was NO PROBLEM getting where they were. Love the lefties

    • Gwangi

      Yes, because of evolution. Boys are far better at special awareness, being bold, creating, leading, competing and doing things which are NOT about speaking.
      Girls’ childhoods are preparing them for a short live filled with pregnancy and child-rearing, where speech really matters, so that is why girls develop speech patterns earlier in general. It is no bother – I have met professional male writers who could not read or write until age 10. But it is innate and evolutionary.
      And by the way, the IQs of the boys are on average 5% higher than girls, and there are twice as many males with above average IQs than females; and males dominate the top 10% of IQ levels – 95% of people there are male.

      This does not necessarily relate to career progression, of course; you can be very weak academically and be a great salesperson, for example.

      And yes, women also say to me they had no problems in their careers – in fact, quite the opposite – some openly admit they had unfair advantage over men in getting chosen for management; others pretend they got where they are purely through merit.

      • Liz

        Your data is out of date. In 2012 women’s IQs rose above men’s and have continued to do so.

        • Gwangi

          Oh no they did not! Your posts are full of opinions masquerading as fact. or maybe post a link to the research you cite?

          Glad to see you accepting IQ as a good measure of intelligence though; most feminists reject that when they discover how much higher male IQs are.

          In all research in all countries that has been done (except in Mexico where the research was flawed), males are shown to have IQs 5% more then females on average; there are twice as many males of above average intelligence than females; and in the top 10% of IQ group, 19 out of 20 people are male.

          Here is a link to that Manchester University researcher:

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/dr-paul-irwing-there-are-twice-as-many-men-as-women-with-an-iq-of-120plus-426321.html

    • Liz

      Girls get higher grades than boys in secondary and higher education too.

      And that includes boys at all-male schools.

      So that’s a fail.

      • Gwangi

        As I have told you before, thicko, that is because girls are selected to join boys’ school at sixth form level, and those schools weed out and reject the girls who are as dim as you.

        The boys are not selected for sixth form. Therefore the intake is different according to gender.

        You really aren’t very good at maths, are you, sister? See, that’s because you’re a girl, and we all know how much better males are at maths and science.

        Boys also dominate the highest level of more female subjects like languages. Most females are middling and unexceptional. All teachers know that the real stars tend to be boys.

  • cartimandua

    And “Donna” did they have children as well? A very short time ago women had to choose children or a career. Men have never had to make that choice although work now leaves them very little time to have a family life.
    And no men have not “predominated” unless they were in a mixed sex classroom and bullied the girls into silence.
    The problem is “mens jobs” have gone with all the self respect and group supports they gave and no one knows how to replace them.
    Women have more recently at least been able to gain some satisfaction from life outside of work.

    • MGTOW 4Ever

      Hmmm. Then do tell why Men on the average are happier then women. Men’s level of happiness has increased over time since 1970’s and women’s has steadily decreased? Every study that has to do with happiness shows that women are becoming more and more miserable.
      Maybe men are just programmed to deal with adversity better or maybe women are incapable of being happy.

      • cartimandua

        Link to study? It is quite possible. Women are still doing most household tasks on top of full time working so naturally they are not full of beans.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10621402/Why-are-women-still-doing-most-of-the-housework.html

        “It’s true. A study published last summer by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) found that women in Britain still do at least two-thirds of housework, even when they are the main breadwinner.

        Yes, that is right. Although women fully expect equality in the workplace, and not to be wolf-whistled at in the street, in Britain we still do 70 per cent of the housework. Analysis by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) found that eight out of 10 married women do more household chores than their husbands, with only one in 10 married men doing an equal amount of cleaning as his wife”

        • MGTOW 4Ever

          I would capitulate to your study if I could actually read it but your link is to a crapy ole’ Telegraphs opinion piece. Thanks but not Thanks. Last time I read one of the “Household” work studies they didn’t include work done on the house, ie roofing, cleaning gutter, washing siding etc…

          Also the study was clear that women did work when they worked 30 Hours, why is this so low. I guarantee men work 40+ and do chores. Its called division of labor.
          So please link me directly to the study no some shoddy piece of journalism, that’s based on a press release, which on top is written by a woman.

          • cartimandua

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2372772/Career-women-chores–theyre-main-breadwinner.html

            “Women still do at least two-thirds of the housework, even in homes where they are the main breadwinner.

            Research shows that despite greater equality in the workplace and changes to social attitudes, division of household chores has failed to keep pace.

            In Britain, 70 per cent of all housework is done by women, an Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) study found.”

          • Gwangi

            Yes and that is because many women are obsessive about hovering and tidying up when it’s not necessary; they also like to claim the moral high ground and be martyrs – and boy do women love their self-pitying moaning and whingeing! (if that were an Olympic sport it would be the only one which women outperformed men and by quite some margin!).
            But them, I have never ever seen a woman mowing a lawn, doing yard work, putting bins out etc (men do 99.9% of that!). The families I know where both parents work share tasks – your definition of ‘housework’ just focuses on the stuff women tend to do. The ESRC is a leftwing propaganda unit.
            And of course, most feminists like Herr Harman and her ilk have servants to look after their children; often poor foreign immigrants, which is why they so like mass immigration.

          • cartimandua

            Well we know if you saw a woman doing “yard work” you wouldn’t even notice it because you have a need to blame women for whatever ails you in life.

          • Gwangi

            Come on, love – when you’re in a hole, stop digging.

            Are you seriously trying to argue that women do as much heavy work at home as men – putting bins out, mowing lawns, heavy lifting, woodwork etc? Yeah right. Enjoy your time on Fraggle Rock…

      • Liz

        Is that why they have higher suicide, mental illness and crime rates than women?

        • MGTOW 4Ever

          Gender differences of the brain are not a myth. Then again I can ask you why the best creations and the most influential, as well as the most generous people on earth are men not women.
          Men have the largest Spectrum Deviations, ie Worse and the Best where as Women have the Least deviation on a spectrum.
          Its in our nature to go out take risks whether they are good or bad. This is why we have some of the worst atrocities committed by men and why we have the greatest works also born of men. There are female exceptions but they are far and few in between.
          Where as women are just average and they are more likely to be nothing special and leech and mooch of those that are. This is not met as insult but a reality check of the Biological function and human evolution.

    • Gwangi

      Actually, British women are the unhappiest in Europe – despite the massive gender equality here and the largest number of women working in the EU, and maternity ‘pay’, and child benefit, and women being independent and single and divorced and getting full child custody when they want it.
      Seems women in more traditional countries are the happiest and most satisfied.
      I am also a big fan of single gender schools – girls really disrupt and adversely affect boys’ education, especially with such a feminised curriculum. Boys schools are far better for boys.

      • Liz

        So how come boys still achieve lower grades than girls in all-boys schools?

        • Gwangi

          Oh you are dim! Because those boys schools pick and choose the girls who join at sixth-form so weed out the weak ones. Doh!
          You are evidence that women are rubbish at maths, love!

  • MGTOW 4Ever

    I think its a good thing that men are failing. Because this showing them how much hate and contempt the system and Females have for them. They expect us to be the cannon fodder but that’s about to stop. The gravy train will halt, lets take Japan for example. Men are just silently saying that’s enough of this crap, I am gone do what I want to do rather then what society and women tell me I should do. 23% of all German men think that the perfect family size is zero. Falling birth rates, sky rocketing Unwed men is a good thing for the male identity because now they are left to explore them selves. Feminists started the war on men but men will win through attrition. Women are free to take care of them selves. Its not longer beneficial for men to help or take care of women. Marriage and Chivalry is dead get use to it.

    • cartimandua

      And its not making men happy is it that sort of attitude. Men gain more than women do from marriage both in health gains and financially.

      • MGTOW 4Ever

        Men don’t gain anything from marriage. Thats why they are not getting married any more. Married men work hard to provide for offspring.
        If men do gain so much from marriage then by that logic women Gain everything from a Divorce.
        Seems like a Con to me, Women promise all this Family crap while they sucker beta SIMPS into working their adult hood away and when the time is right they financially and emotionally rape the SIMP of a men they were married to.

        • cartimandua

          Studies show more health and financial gain for men. With divorce women take a financial hit they never recover from unless they repartner.

          • MGTOW 4Ever

            Oh so your citing a study from the 70’s men’s health in a marriage.. Sorry that study is over 40 years old. The most recent study showed that yes men did live longer THEN DIVORCED or Widowed men but it didn’t account nor include for Single Men that have never been married. Nor do the studies actually measure the level of happiness. Also please SHOW me the proof I want to see the studies you are referring too. Links would be nice.. If women don’t recover from a divorce then that’s their fault, they should get off their ass and do some back breaking labour that men have been doing for countless millennia.

          • cartimandua

            Then men should keep the kids and try to do a full time job too.
            The men I know who have tried it have given up work in the end.

          • Gwangi

            Many men would love to have joint custody of children after a divorce; most women won’t allow that and will do anything (lying, insinuating that a man is a paedo) to stop it.
            Men who do not have status at work are disrespected by women; divorces are much more likely to happen in families where men give up work to look after kids or work part-time. Therefore, it is WOMEN who need to change their backwards attitudes – they need to learn how to respect men, even if they are not rich, powerful and have status in society through their careers. Time to change, girls.
            Maybe the local femi-circle can arrange evening classes to teach you – then you can enter the 21st century and stop expected to live off men’s money all the time.

          • cartimandua

            It is normal in this country for men to have joint custody. Most couples cannot afford to run two homes and childcare as well.

          • Gwangi

            Who are you ( a psyco feminist loon) to say what is normal? LOL!

          • Gwangi

            You – as a badly educated big mouth – are utterly midreading the statistics. The research showed that of the marriages which last, the men are slightly better off in health terms and financially. This could mean they are healthier to start with because they are more middle class or religious (not many divorces in Muslim marriages eh). This could mean they tend to answer in a more upbeat way to researchers too and hide their true unhappy feelings (unlike emotional pity party women who love showing off about their sadnesses).

            It does NOT include the 50^% of marriages that end in divorce, 70% of which are initiated by wives who know a free house and 70% of assets when they see it. Like winning the lottery eh? No financial contribution to a mortgage and you still get the house. The law really is an as-s.
            Are men who have lost all their hard-earned cash and propery in a divorce, and lost all access to their children until the all-powerful wife permits it, better off. As I said before, no wonder some men crack.

          • Alyson Cruise

            Fun fact: men win the majority of custody battles they choose to fight.

            So, I definitely know that your “lost all access to the children” thing is nonsense. I mean, I also know what the average percentage of a man’s income that goes on alimony is and what the difference between child support and alimony is and how assets actually work and all sorts of things like that (eg, divorce is VERY common in Islam, disproportionately so, sometimes to as much as five times higher than non-Muslims, and the country with the highest divorce rate in the world is the Maldives, an Islamic nation). But let’s focus on one absurd lie you tell at once, shall we?

          • Jios

            “Fun fact: men win the majority of custody battles they choose to fight.”

            Correction: They win the majority of custody battles they can AFFORD to fight.

            I have lawyers in the family, don’t bother arguing with me on this point. People that work in the field who actually know that statistics and understand that the odds are against men unless they have money. T

            The only two men i know that have won ‘custody battles’ have had to sell properties in order to pay for legal representation.

    • Alyson Cruise

      feminism is literally 1) against marriage and chivalry 2) what killed marriage and chivalry.

      you dooon’t know what you’re taaaalking about.

      • MGTOW 4Ever

        Oh Great another Reddit Femitard. Feminism actually demands more Chivalry and Subservient Marriage from men. Why is it that Feminists still want men to make special laws to protect women and not extend that same right to men. Canada had made laws that limit the amount of punishment a female gets for killing her own children yet men are excluded. Why did feminists push so hard for common law marriages? All those laws were created during the peak Feminist movement. Feminists want to have all the “privileges” of the “patriarchy” with out the obligations.

        Feminists agencies in Canada have sabotaged all legal moves that would bring true equality. They have made it so they are the “exception” in the legal system and society by the virtue of having a Vagina.

        I think you should check your White Female Hetero Privilege.

  • cartimandua

    Women never started any “war”. Technology made male “jobs” obsolete and less satisfying.
    Without the old male groups of trade unions and the military it seems a lot of men never ever grow up.

    • MGTOW 4Ever

      Its true Technology has replaced “men” physcial strength but then again technology was mostly invented by men for that reason. Then again the same technology made women’s lives hell of a lot easier. I laugh when I am told being a house wife is such a tough job.. Really, washing machines, ovens, Fridges, microwaves, tv, computers, telephones. I’d love to sit on my everyday at home and bitch about how hard it is to stay home with a kid and do laundry once or twice a week, cook a mediocre meal or not at all while I have the internet and tv at my fingertips.
      Then again men will invent technologies to replace women’s strengths. Artificial sex dispensers, artificial womb (Japan). Men and women will need each other in the future like fish need bicycles.

      • cartimandua

        Oh dear oh dear. Staying at home with a small child is relentless and any other tasks are done with the small child attached.
        Try taking a small child to work with you and still getting anything done.

        • MGTOW 4Ever

          Seriously. You have to be kidding.

          • cartimandua

            Not at all you have obviously never done it. Babies and toddlers may nap for a half hour or so maybe. One then could choose to do “some work” eat, bathe, housework, etc etc.
            At the toddler age they go to the loo with Mummy or Daddy and scream if you go into another room. And then of course they often do not sleep through the night … for years.
            And was it you who said “do laundry 2xs a week? Its 3xs a day at least.

  • cartimandua

    Gwang as usual has nothing useful at all to say. He just has an excess of bile.

    • Gwangi

      As per usual, an ad hominem spiteful underhand malicious tiresome attack by feminist who has been comprehensively out-argued.
      Your theories are fake; your ideology twisted; your attitude hateful.
      No wonder no man will ever go near you; I just pray you never get access to a boy child whose life you would ruin in the name of gender equality…

  • cartimandua

    Well you have not got a civil tongue in your head to the point where one worries about how safe you are in real life to other people.
    Or is it just that you feel it is a male “right” to be abusive to women. Is that the culture you came from?
    After divorce whoever gets the kids has to run the same home with half the money.
    Its mostly women who do that and they never financially recover.

    • Gwangi

      Utter fantasy. Women usually get full custody of kids even if a man wants shared custody. That old saw ‘who was the main carer’ is always used, and then women often insinuate abuse stories, in the evil way you have just done that too. Accusing me of being a paedophile, a danger to children, and the rest – that says way more about your sick twisted hateful head than about me, sister. I sincerely hope you never give birth.

      A weapon you see, raising suspicions about men. Fathers rarely get proper access to their children; mummy meanwhile can invite any local perv into her bed to have access to the children (not HER children; THEIR children).

      You seem to think you have the right to abuse men.

      This is what I hate about feminist hypocrites; they do not care about human rights unless that human lacks a willy. You are therefore recommending discrimination on grounds of gender and less good treatment for half the population because of the gender they were born with. Tsss.

      • Liz

        Custody being awarded by the English courts most often to mothers is not evidence of bias or discrimination. It’s evidence of merit.

        • Gwangi

          Idiot

          • Liz

            Of course. The court system must be biased. Judges must be corrupt. Lawyers must be part of a conspiracy. It’s literally the only explanation for why divorced men get custody of their children less often than divorced women.

            Or.

            The best person for the job is getting the job.

            Get better.

      • cartimandua

        You are talking about residency. Children have to live in some stable place.
        Where both parents are “normal” there is usually joint parental responsibility.

        • Gwangi

          No there isn’t. The family courts are institutionally misandrist and have an unfair bias in favour of the mother., This is a vestige of past society – so feminists should be campaigning for this bias to be addressed.

    • Liz

      It’s funny how the MRAs refuse to accept there’s any bias in the recruitment process, a process that has very little external oversight, whereas they think the court system, a system designed to eliminate it, is riddled with it.

      • Gwangi

        There is bias in the legal system; you are ignorant.
        Recruitment processes may have been discriminatory, but these days if anything it is men who suffer and less qualified women are leapfrogged over them to senior roles – as many women will admit too, such as female police chief constables.
        When merit alone counts, we get situations as on the Mastermind and University Challenge finals – 100% white men in both.

        • cartimandua

          Well it wasn’t actually but when women have done things its always been while pregnant up until a few decades ago.

          • Gwangi

            Excuses excuses.
            Even Greer admits that women are middling and ‘don’t do genius’. Why can’t you? Are you seriously suggesting that if women hadn’t had to bear children yet still had female brains and innate instincts and behaviours, they would have invented everything that men have invented, created and built? That includes a legal system that gives human rights to everyone: it was men wot done that, not women.

          • Liz

            Excuses? Let’s try your excuse: it’s men’s fault, the system is against us, wahhhh, etc.

          • Gwangi

            The diference is that I give REASONS and valid ones at that. You make excuses because your brain is buzzing with such a hatred of men that I can only pity you – you must have been very hurt by men in your life.
            My advice: get counselling. Then you may just be able to live a semi-normal life if you work really hard at it.

          • Liz

            You’re confusing reasons with made up sh*t

  • cartimandua

    Gwangi Your contempt for women would mean if you had children you would never get custody. It is so obvious and would poison any child.
    You are not doing men any favours at all.
    It is not womens fault that

    • Gwangi

      OMG so now you – an evil, mental, femiloon, are accusing me not only of wanting to abuse children but of wanting to poison them too.
      You need help. Sicko.

  • LW

    Boys
    are also “permanently excluded” from school at a rate four times higher than
    for girls.

    • Gwangi

      Yes, because girls who bully are treated more leniently than boys (reminiscent of our legal system and police, that) and girls’ bullying is hard to spot too. The school system is institutionally misandrist and run by women for females; didn’t you know that?

      • Liz

        Boys are given more one to one time in schools than girls.
        And in universities women’s and ethnic minorities requests for tuition are ignored more than white men’s.

        And they still do worse.

        • Gwangi

          You are talking utter tosh.
          The gyne-centric school system has at last started recognising that it is anti-boy and is failing boys so is taking some action to rectify that – but nowhere near enough.
          You have to look at the social class backgrounds of ethnic minority candidates, silly, These days, when any eejit can go to university, lots of very dim and semi-literate people go there – incl many non-academic types from ethnic minorities. In my experience, teachers give ethnics bonus marks just to being black – and to pre-empt any charge of way-cism is Kwame and Kwasi and Mohammed complain that their marks were lower than their fellow white students’ marks.

  • LW

    In 2009-10, men were perpetrators in 91% of all violent incidents in England and Wales. That is:

    81% of domestic violence
    81% of speeding offenses
    86% of assaults
    87% of all traffic offenses
    89% of criminal damage
    92% of drug offenses
    92% of the London riot defendants were male. 100% of defendants for offenses involving violence.
    94% of woundings
    94% of motoring offenses causing death or bodily harm.
    96% of muggings
    97% of dangerous driving offenses
    98% of robberies
    98% of sexual offenses
    99% of child sexual offenses

    There’s a crisis alright. And it’s been ongoing for the last 30,000 years. Hopefully this century will mark a turning point.

    • Gwangi

      Utter fabricated ‘facts’. Opinion masquerading as fact actually, Lies, in other words, You have just made all those figures up – and you wonder why people won’t believe women when they claim abuse? You and your like are the reason why.
      Research shows that almost half of domestic violence is done by women (it may not be reported because women seek help and demand arrests more; men let women off the hook).
      Most violent abuse of children is done by women, and most babies and children who are murdered are killed by women too.
      Yes, men commit more crime; but why? To get wealth and power because that is what women find attractive; women are usually the motivation for male criminality.
      Men drive much more than women and do proper and difficult driving against the clock – that is why their accidents are more serious, though women have twice as many accidents per mile driven.
      Of course, Men have invented 99.9% of useful major inventions; 99.9% of all medical advances have come from men; most films, great books, great music was created by men; 99.9% of all changes in society that have led to human rights for all; men banned slavery; men gave people the vote; men liberated Europe from the Nazis.
      Your twisted man hating is very sad. You must have been really hurt when that boy dumped you and called you ugly, eh?

      • Liz

        Home office figures.

        • Gwangi

          Link – or shut up. And remember, arrests + charges + convictions DO NOT reflect the true picture of crime. Most female crimes go unreported and most women who break the law or hurt others go unpunished.

          http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

          If you include verbal and psychological violence, far more is done by women to men and children too.
          Most violence against children and babies is done by women – who are the clear leaders in child murder skills. Men are just rubbish at that…

    • Astrokid

      Leaving aside your BS stats, men do 99.99% of ALL innovation.
      Even after 50+ years of feminism giving a massive leg up to women, there’s hardly any woman thats moved civilization forward..through great scientific progress.. hardly any female Nobel Prize winners in science, hardly any female innovators like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, or any great art.. or even great standup comedians.. or even a chess grandmaster (judith polgar.. only one in top 100). Heck.. my own 3rd world countryman Anand Viswanathan became a world chess champion. And even the most privileged western white woman cant even get anywhere near that.

      Feminists invented “women oppressed by men” to cover up your massive non-contribution. Lets face it.. you are good only for a few things. And the only reason feminism has been successful is because men in power decide to support it, and fathers of daughters have a huge protective instinct that throws other men under the bus for the well-being of their daughters. Feminism is a war on lower and middle-status men, by upper and middle-class women and high-status men.

      If civilization were left to women, we would still be living in huts – Camille Paglia

      • Liz

        No they don’t.

      • Gwangi

        Exactly!

    • La Fold

      “94% of motoring offenses causing death or bodily harm”
      Last 30,000 years?

  • LW

    95% of prisoners are male, at a £45k each per year. Overall cost of
    crime £78bn a year in 2009.

    If men committed as few crimes as women, the overall number of incidents would fall by 54%. This creates an annual saving of £42bn, equivalent to almost a third of last year’s public sector budget deficit.

    • Gwangi

      Men commit crimes for women; just because women do not actually DO anything, does not mean they are not involved.

      Maybe we should have a 50% target for women in prison eh? Start arrest all those women who spur on men to commit crime to get them money and status? Women do as much wrongdoing as men, just in different ways.

      And anyway, you are focusing on a tiny proportion of men; most men have never been to prison or even been arrested. You utter fool. But don’t let facts stand in the way of a good manhating rant, Dworkie!

      And by the way, loony, crime has been falling for years – except violent crimes by women, of course.

      • Liz

        Moral responsibility. Wonderful thing. Men should try it.

        • Gwangi

          Now you are arguing that women are more moral than men. There’s a word for people like you. In fact there are several…
          Why not have a go and try for gender parity in the suicide statistics then eh?
          Tell me: is it men who are responsible for most murders of babies and children or women? Killings I meant – when women kill they get away with murder – literally.

          • Liz

            If they’re getting away with it, how can one possibly know?

  • Gwangi

    Most men are doing fine – even if we are living in a highly feminised society now with a rigged education system that is not geared to male ways of doing things at all, but is geared to female ways (and with 71% of teachers being female and that rising every year, the only refuge is boys only grammar or private schools).

    Articles such as this focus on that bottom 10-20% of young men who leave school with nothing and who also have usually had no fathers at home to guide them (a result of feminism and the benefits system, that).

    Not ALL men at all.

    And the bottom 10-20% of women are in pretty bad shape too, of course.

    So it’s disappointing and sad the way some nasty feminists are so gleeful whenever they hear of how the least qualified and wealthy males are suffering. These boys grow up bitter and may well end up mugging or robbing you, or starting riots, or stabbing your kids on the streets. 50% of black boys in London – a booming city – are unemployed. Be afraid, be very afraid, sisters…

    Reminds me of the suffragettes – most didn’t want ordinary people’s lives to be made better or even most people to have the vote; the cared about themselves, upper class women who had slaves to do their dirty work, and no-one else.

    • Alyson Cruise

      Wait what?

      I mean, leaving aside that the suffragette movement and slavery in britain are like centuries apart, you know that a bunch of them were hugely prominent activists for the poor?

      Sylvia Pankhurst, for example, a name you might have heard, did a huge amount of work in the east end of london and believed that the only true revolution was a working class revolution. Look up her ELFS and the work they did.

      But I’ll stop poking holes in your ridiculous misunderstandings of history if you can just cite me an example of one of the feminists you name who take glee in this. Because I’ve read all five of the scientific journals feminism has for men’s studies and not one of them is ever remotely gleeful; the whole of feminism DEPENDS on men being able to do well, which they can’t do if we make them all poor.

  • mb1957@hotmail.co.uk

    “Men, on all sorts of measures, are beginning to fall behind.”

    In the words of John McEnroe, ‘You CANNOT be serious!!!’ Men and boys have been systematically assaulted by the actions and inactions of the British state for the past 30+ years. In our political party’s public consultation document – the precursor to our 2015 general election manifesto – we list 20 areas where the state disadvantages men and boys, usually to advantage women and girls:

    http://j4mb.wordpress.com/our-public-consultation-exercise-2/

    There isn’t even one area where the state disadvantages women and girls.

    So who’s financing the state’s assaults on men and boys? Men, in the main. They pay 72% of the income tax collected in the UK, women just 28%.

    Mike Buchanan

    JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS

    (and the women who love them)

    http://j4mb.org.uk

    • Alyson Cruise

      Let’s just be absolutely clear here.

      When you don’t get more than a handful of votes? I want you to understand, that’s not because of the political process, or because of some sort of feminist conspiracy, or some sort of assault on men.

      It’s because your facts are so childishly, embarrassingly easy to disprove that there’s no chance an eight-year-old with access to google would believe your party line.

      • mb1957@hotmail.co.uk

        Alyson, good afternoon. I’ve been reading claims about our consultation document, ‘your facts are so childishly, embarrassingly easy to disprove…’, and similar, for the past 15 months, since we launched the party. The thing is, nobody – including dozens of feminists who I’ve challenged to substantiate their assertions – has ever disproved any of our ‘facts’, or discredited any of the sources of information to which we direct people in the document. Hopefully you’re more competent than ‘an eight-year-old with google’, so I invite you to disprove two or three of them here.
        Have a nice day.

  • Gwangi

    What is very telling is how feminists attack and fling abuse at any men who dare challenge and out-argue them, exposing their ‘facts’ as opinions and fabricated ‘evidence’, and pointing out the realities.

    They fling their abuse at men like me who want equality of opportunity for men and women and who have modern and tolerant views; they fling abuse at anyone who cites real scientific empirical evidence that male and female brains are different and that male/female behaviour and aptitudes are thus totally different too. Not better or worse, just different.

    Perversely, but tellingly, they never attack the men (and women) in our society who really do want to oppress women and deny them an education and opportunities – namely, many Muslims and ethnic minority men and women too. I wonder why.

    Oh I know, it’s because it’s acceptable to fling abuse at white men – the whippings boys of our age. Because it’s OK to unfairly discriminate against white men because some white men in the past did ‘bad things’; one should remember that white men in the past also did good things of course – like, errr, inventing everything and creating human civilisation over the last 1000+ years.

  • cartimandua

    Gwang you have nothing to offer in terms of argument or creative thinking.
    The problems for men arise out the changed nature of work and the loss of all the
    male bonds that used to offer.
    Perhaps we should bring back national service .

    • Gwangi

      You keep on banging on about this and have posted several times in a pathetic attempt to stay as the first post on here. Men do not need bonding and support like women, who are more social and always need to be in a group (they lack confidence); men are naturally more solitary and individual, and do not feel the need to natter and hug like girls. Last time I looked, men spent time with other men in a sporting context quite a lot actually

      The ‘problem’ with men is confined to the least educated 10-20%; yet feminists use it to cobble together a ‘male crisis’ because that is a fashionable song to sing. Fact is, the least educated 10-20% of women are as stuffed as the men really, though these days the benefits system has replaced the manual worker men who used to subsidise their lives of leisure.

      No evidence whatsoever for your assertion however, as most men did not work as miners or soldiers 100 years ago either.
      What has changed is that a huge number of boys have no fathers or male role models at home, and all their teachers in a feminised school system are female too.
      If millions of girls were brought up in single father families, had no female role models and most of their teachers were male, I am sure you feminist hypocrites would be saying how awful and damaging that is. Funny how you don’t think it is when boys have to suffer it eh?

      • cartimandua

        Men always have had military farming and industrial groups around work.
        Male suicide is not just about the “lowest 20%”.
        And women would be delighted to have more male teachers in schools at every level.
        The reason there were not many male teachers is /was the low pay and lack of respect for teachers.
        The lack of Dads is not to do with “wimmin”. Cultures with traditionally absent males (because of polygamy or job migration) brought all that here and multiculti left it alone.

        • Terry Field

          ”The reason there were not many male teachers is /was the low pay and lack of respect for teachers.”

          Cods – it was a heist to foist the crap PGCE ‘qualification’ (haha) on the ‘teaching profession’ (even more haha) plus almost fascistic enforcement of ‘don’t slap the little beauties reason with them’ that was positively designed by leftie union feminist types to remove men and replace them with fat lazy otherwise ill-educated women who could then stand in over-crowded classrooms as ‘educators’ -Loads of them had ‘PGCE’ and NOTHING else.
          I knew some of them and I would not have employed them as cleaners, they were so dim. I doubt it is any better now, judging from recent stories about the recruitment of ‘qualified’ teachers.
          Sod the need for any ‘subject knowledge’ the little tykes do not need to know anything do they? – they just need ‘confidence’ by being told any drivel they come out with is marvellous.
          No male could stand such absurdity – it is designed to attract women.
          And to destroy the independent life chances of the ‘kids’. But who the hell cared about that.
          Lets hear it for Grade Inflation!!!!!
          So that then leads to the total dominance of the Public School system in populating the great professions and all serious roles in the entire country.
          Who could continue to live in such an insane asylum of a country. I could not and thank God I left.

          • cartimandua

            And how is the recruitment of ex soldiers into teaching going? A class of 30 with half having special needs or no English is not likely to be learning very much.

          • Terry Field

            Silly but reavealing comment. Soldiers are probably much more aware, skilled and compassionate than your average lazy PGCE encrusted urban leftie warrior.
            And they would probably be excellent for fragile people with special neeeds. Why would they not be?
            Come on – REALLY show you bitter prejudices!

          • Gwangi

            A good argument to stop mass immigration and to put children who REALLY have special needs into special schools with specialist teachers. That includes all the disruptive vibrant boys in our inner cities.
            But these days the special needs industry is massive and schools and parents WANT kids to be labelled as such to get more funding and attention. Most kids labelled in such a way are just thick or not academic. Dyslexia my A. We all get our words mixed up! (Though babies dumped in childcare away from others do suffer brain damage which may case problems)

            No children are labelled as such in China and they all learn how to read and write. It’s a industry, that’s all, just like feminism and diversity.

        • Gwangi

          So, the lack of dads has nothing to do with women initiating 70%+ of divorce +then doping everything they can to stop men having access to their children? You idiot.

          Lack of male teachers? Well, partly it’s because of so many women entering the job market which pushed property prices up so a family could no linger live on a father’s teaching salary. The school system is uber-feminised; that is why we have people teaching maths and physics who barely scrape an E grade A level – because maths and physics teachers tend to be male. There is an unpleasant stench of oestrogen in all staff rooms I have ever entered these days.

          Men and women commit suicide all over the world, love. The difference is, men do it properly; women prefer a pity party attention-seeking theatrical attempt. Maybe local collegs could off women-only course sin how to do it properly then eh? Suicide stats correspond to economic stats everywhere – we’re in a recession, love, innit? Tsss.

          • cartimandua

            The “lack of Dads” is about the importation of cultures where women do bring up children on their own because of polygamy or migration for work.
            It is also to do with attitudes like yours. No judge would let someone as contemptuous towards women and as rude as you near any child of either gender.

  • Laura Bristol

    isabel hardman is delusional in thinking she can fool the audience into thinking this bears any resemblance to the truth. it is simply desperately trying to serve the by now pathetic and obsolete feminist narrative. and thus, it is doomed to fail. One wonders how come such silly tenets only seem to be vomited by female journalists. What a shame that such a once noble publication as the spectator should allow such garbage to appear in its pages.

    • cartimandua

      You don’t think there is a problem for men since traditional male jobs and groups have vanished?

      • Terry Field

        Yes that is part of it, but only a small part.

        • cartimandua

          You prefer to think is a conspiracy by “wimmin”? You just cannot adjust to new technology and its downsides.
          It does have a downside.
          Paul Virilio puts it well. He says that every new technology has accidents (a downside) inherent within it.
          Mass travel and mass media leads to the “accident” of terrorism.
          Mechanization meant to take away from people literally killing kinds of work has lead to problems particularly for men.
          But then in the “good old days” male life expectancy was much lower and even more died in the workplace than do now.
          The difference in life expectancy between men and women now is negligible.

          • Gwangi

            Errr actually men invented all that technology you’re using, not women, and many millions of men work in the technological and IT industries (very few women coz they’re crapp at anything technical in general).

            Well, I demolished your luddite argument there then
            Next question!

            BTW e has always been ‘terrorism’, silly. though of course they will these days use the technology available as they always have. Paul V does not put it well at all then… or perhaps states the bleeding obvious – that everything has good and bad sides – and then gets praised as a quasi-intellectual by sociology students like you. Zzzz….

          • cartimandua

            So you invent a car and then complain when you get run over by it.

          • Gwangi

            No, because I haven’t been run over by a car. Doh!

            But women do have twice as many accidents per mile driven than men and are terrible at spatial awareness. Would I get on a plane if the pilot were a woman? Nope.

            Technological developments have been changing society and causing jobs to disappear for literally thousands of years, Read the Gift of Stones by Jim Crace to see how it might have happened as the Stone Age became the Bronze Age. It affects men and women equally.

  • coalgateOps

    If we are to preserve liberty from the shackles of pseudo-science and centralized power, we must understand and abide by moral standards that transcend the rule of law.

  • GraveDave

    Doing better and being better – still two very different things.
    Isabel.

    • Liz

      Exactly.

  • jack

    Lets enslave all the women, chain them in the kitchen, and keep them pregnant or lactating until the island sinks.

    • cartimandua

      Well that is what many male posters on here seem to want.

      • Gwangi

        No it isn’t – that is your deviousness, projecting your own fantasies of your ‘male enemies’ at any one on here who challenges and outargues you. Straw man arguments, sister.

        • cartimandua

          As usual nothing to offer in any serious or helpful way.
          Shouldn’t you be studying for your GCSEs?

          • Gwangi

            Now, little lady, why would I want to do that when I have 8 O levels?
            GCSEs are for thick people like you.

        • Liz

          Gwangi/Eddie

          Spending all day here spouting random misogynist sh*t you’re making up doesn’t count as challenging. It just counts as, crazy unemployed sociopath raging on the Internet.

  • Astrokid

    Good stuff Isabel.
    But you must have heard that Patriarchy hurts the menz too. And the solution is moar feminism. i.e men apparently have to grovel more and “solve” women’s “problems” and that will automatically fix everyone else’s problems.

    Until we address toxic femininity.. such as golddigging, playing damsel-in-distress for white knights to come and crush other men, women not held accountable for their misdeeds (they are sentenced lot more leniently than men for their crimes).. nothings going to change. Women pay the price when their sons and grandsons are savaged by other wily women.

    • cartimandua

      Women commit fewer violent crimes.

      • Terry Field

        Depends what you mean by violent.

        • cartimandua

          Murders rapes robbery with weapons.

          • Gwangi

            What about hitting children, or killing babies and children?

          • sadmaninagame

            I think you’re talking about a pretty small demographic there. I mean you know, almost imperceptible in size. Probably 2 or 3 people. Maybe 4.

  • Rudi774

    Whohahaha! (the sound of my groaning and laughter) You English people really are silly! And Spectator is considered a conservative British magazine in my country. All I read is a bunch of neo-feminist rubbish. If I want to engage in the pointless exercise of debating a feminist troll, I log in to Spectator. The problem is feminism, pure and simple. Western societies have become completely gynocentric. Every prejudice and assumption is in favour of women today. Every range of top abilities is naturally predominantely male. Feminists are upset about this so they want to wreck every male from the cradle. But you even have a “Conservative” PM’s wife spouting all this parity nonsense. “All that female talent”, haha. Boehoe (sound of my man-baby whining), we’re saved by high child care expenses! I have watched BBC running this grrl power theme since the Nineties. Women are taking over the world! Rejoice! Could happen any day now! Just about…now! If it wasn’t for child care. What metro libtard rubbish! Just look at this item: two women talking about about the masculine crisis. Where are the men? Too gutless to stand up to the Mary Beards of this world? You will always need two women talking about this. English men, you are c-word (plural)!
    Have fun in your nice service economy!

    • cartimandua

      You must think countries like Pakistan (just 14% of women in paid work) are absolute heaven.
      The more women in paid work the better off the country is and the better off you are.

      • Gwangi

        Stop worrying and fussing about Pakistan. The place is a toilet – for men and women both.

    • Terry Field

      DEad on. Well said

  • cartimandua

    Rudi
    In Pakistan there is mass male unemployment because

    • Gwangi

      Yes, and you keep harping on about your pet theory.
      Yes, there was an industrial revolution and many manual jobs have gone. But that only affects those men (and women) who are the least well-educated – the lower working class. Maybe 20% maximum.
      You and extrapolating that to argue that all men are in crisis and all women are not. Absurd!
      The fact is that the bottom 20% of PEOPLE in the lower 20% of society are stuffed – men AND women. Rampant unemployment, drugs and booze addiction, aimlessness, moral collapse, criminality. It is those PEOPLE who are in crisis – not just men. Got it now? Good.

      • cartimandua

        You seem to miss the fact that technology has crimped the number of manual jobs for both men and for women.
        women worked in the fields and on farms and in factories.
        They were cheaper.
        And now where there are low skilled jobs people in social housing cannot move towards them and they are undercut by bright young things from abroad willing to live in a shed.

  • Terry Field

    It has been obvious to us for many years – decades even – that England is a super-feminised culture. The atmosphere makes it impossible for boys and later men to achieve as girls and women now do.
    The values, activities, proscriptions, psychological framework and allowed objectives are specifically designed to exclude the male and over-emphasise the value of the female. This is unusual in a global sense; Other cultures do not do this. britian did not do this a century before.
    Women there must really hate their male offspring to countenance the violence the y do to them
    As for solutions, thee probably are none.
    Males would do well to be educated elsewhere, and then never return to the toxic shores.

    • Liz

      Total balls. You’ve plainly never had any contact with the BBC beyond shouting at your TV.

      • Terry Field

        Shows how wrong you can be Lizzie old girl!

        • Liz

          What on earth is the BBC dyke brigade? Who are its members? And what do they do, specifically?

    • Thoughtful Ulsterman

      Where are the more sane shores? It seems the whole West is infected with this disease.

  • cartimandua

    Terry in the “good old days” with a “masculine culture that you seem nostalgic for male life expectancy was much lower and many more died in work or in wars.
    What field of work do you think could magically be conjured up by a more “male” teaching environment?
    What we need to do is get rid of comps and put in their place schools which will teach those with systematizing brains “better”. That is not necessarily gender specific by the way.

    • Gwangi

      You know NOTHING about how the education system has changed over the last 40-50 years. The way the curriculum, methodology, emphasis, valued sckills and talents have ALL become feminised. 70% + of teachers are now female; we used to have 50% male teachers. That is why we have such a lack of good maths and science teachers.
      Female teachers in primary schools are often as semi-numerate as most women. We desperately need peripatetic teachers at that stage, going into schools and teaching kids maths – cancel the circle time to make room for it.
      Take away the wallowing in feelings and emotions – and the constant nattering and socalled discussion that passes for teaching in the femi-mess of our school system. Scrap all coursework except in art. Back to exams and knowledge. Back to real education, as they have in very many countries and not just China either – Russia, France: these countries stick to a system of real knowledge and facts.

      • Liz

        “Female teachers in primary schools are often as semi-numerate”
        Citation needed

        “As most women”
        Citation needed

  • Gwangi

    Carti – I have out-argued you and shown your pet theory to be false. Read it and learn, love. OK?

    Yes, there was an industrial revolution and many manual jobs have gone. But that only affects those men (and women) who are the least well-educated – the lower working class. Maybe 20% maximum.

    You are extrapolating that to argue that all men are in crisis and all women are not. Absurd!

    The fact is that the bottom 20% of PEOPLE in the lower 20% of society are stuffed – men AND women. Rampant unemployment, drugs and booze addiction, aimlessness, moral collapse, criminality. It is those PEOPLE who are in crisis – not just men. Got it now? Good.

  • cartimandua

    You are truly confused Gwang as you have just been arguing yourself that the industrial revolution has had an effect on the lowest tranche in society.
    Of course the changing nature of work and new technology has affected everyone and not “just” the lowest
    20% as mass travel now puts each one of us in competition for work with
    a whole lot of other people.
    People come here with similar skills and lower wage demands. IT workers here have seen their jobs go offshore or Indians in particular come in.
    That has happened in any job not requiring specifically British qualifications.

    • Gwangi

      Yes, and I have not argued with that point. The work market is way more competitive than it was – and it was pretty competitive when I was a new graduate over 20 years or so ago and was unemployed for a year. I went abroad to work.
      Add to that the way children these days lack resilience and are way more immature, behaving in the infantilised way our school system and paranoid parents encourage (as they worship self-esteem together and tell their children they are geniuses even if they are mediocre or thick as custard) and it’s a recipe for unhappiness and disaster.
      But yes, we have had way too much immigration. But also, many less able British kids have a bad and arrogant attitude and won’t know how to work – they demand RISPEK instead of doing a job properly and serving the public.

      • Liz

        “Add to that the way children these days lack resilience”
        Citation needed

        “and are way more immature”
        Citation needed

        “Behaving in the infantilised way”
        Citation needed

        “our school system and paranoid parents encourage”
        Citation needed

        ” (as they worship self-esteem together and tell their children they are geniuses even if they are mediocre or thick as custard)”
        Citation needed

        “and it’s a recipe for unhappiness and disaster.”
        Citation needed

    • balance_and_reason

      Whilst the low skilled have seen their wages static, they have also seen a number of consumer goods drop dramatically in price over this period…last 30 years….cars, clothes, electronics, even food…all are in real terms substantially cheaper than they were 50/60 years ago.

  • balance_and_reason

    I went to an all boys school; I never felt girls were academically superior….I sent my son to all boys till 13 then he excelled at a co-ed after that…..I think co-od is not necessarily right for all kids….need to assess characters and adjust.
    As for the rest its all bullshit and politics.

    • Liz

      If you went to an all-boys school how did you expect to know?

      • balance_and_reason

        Firstly the relevant point is you don’t need to know but to develop at a speed that suits, learning in a manner that suits…but I had two sisters…, one close in age, so as in real life we could easily se that we all had strengths in different area’s.

  • Tom Dane

    Funny, feminisms solves the problem with “men being better at everything” by not becoming better themselves..but by destroying men. Lets see for how long a society like that floats.

    • Liz

      How on earth is it destroying them? Are feminists excluding boys from education? From universities? From getting degrees even if they attend universities? From joining institutions? From heading up institutions? Do feminists control 78% of the media? As men did and do to women?

      No, feminists do none of these things and the only thing stopping men from achieving things in a world built by them and for them is themselves.

      • sadmaninagame

        Depends what you mean by “feminist” doesn’t it really. According to some mostly spectacularly silly academics, I’m guilty of oppressing women because I have a penis. I mean just possessing it, not actually using it (note to self: actually use it).

        On the other hand there’s another strand of feminism that rightly campaigns against injustices. Not the kind that involves little girls being given dolls to play with and wearing pink but the kind that sees things like sexual harassment in the workplace, for example, as a hindrance to women gaining genuine equality.

        I certainly hope that women don’t become the same as men in order to get that equality. That would be extremely tedious.

      • Tom Dane

        Yes, you are not bettering yourself because that would be too hard (and impossible). But lets make men look bad that will make our petty achievements looks good. You know that is the truth.

  • cartimandua

    The problem for men is the globalization of work. They are now competing for jobs with millions and millions from the EU and beyond.
    We should not permit foreign buyers to buy here whenever they feel like it.
    We should do what the Channel Islands does and have a local and open property market.
    We should do the same with jobs.
    No employer should be allowed to “bring someone in” without proving there is no genuinely qualified British person able to do that job.
    The eck with “free movement” from the EU.
    Students who come here to study should be asked to go home when they are finished. Many don’t and just go on to jobs and residency.

    • Liz

      Women are competing in a globalised world too.

      The problem with British men is that they haven’t got used to the idea.

      • cartimandua

        Men migrate more often and more easily. It may be a perception only that they are less at risk but I think it is true that men migrate more often. From our chaps working (and sometimes getting killed) in an oil bearing country to the men trying to jump a truck at Calais.
        All the countries with an excess of men because they have not cared enough for girls are going to export lots of men and some of them will be very skilled.
        India alone has to create an eyewatering number of new jobs each year to find employment for all their young people.

  • David Wilkins

    It’s good to see this article, which is well argued, well researched and well balanced. At the Men’s Health Forum we’ve spend the last 15 years working hard to improve outcomes in one area of life where men undoubtedly do less well than overall than women – that is in physical health. I’ve never heard anyone who works in health dispute this. There is also a very strong argument to be made that we are failing men and boys in mental health and we have done a great deal of work in that area too.
    It is frustrating therefore that whenever the problems of men are highlighted in any serious way, the comments boards descend instantly into a predictable battle between misogynists and anti-feminists on the one side (mostly men, one imagines), and on the other side, those people of both sexes who hold the entrenched view that only men are privileged and only women can be disadvantaged. It has happened again here. Our experience suggests that where one sex does less well than the other, there are invariably complex causes associated with individual behaviours, cultural norms, social policy and legislative frameworks. These things won’t be changed by people shouting at each other on message boards or by people simply ignoring evidence that doesn’t confirm their pre-existing world view. It is likewise a recipe for stagnation to hold to the absurd belief that all problems for women are caused by men and that all problems for men are caused by women (or even just by ‘feminists’ for that matter).
    The solution is for both men and women to recognise that inequalities affect both sexes and to understand that tackling inequalities affecting one sex does not disadvantage the other. In other words, it’s not a competition. Indeed it is the reverse. If we can improve educational outcomes for boys for example, that will be of benefit to women. If we can eliminate discrimination against women in the workplace, that will benefit men . . . and so on and so on. Most men have women in their lives that they love and for whom they want the fairest, safest, healthiest and most well educated kind of society. Most women have men about whom they feel exactly the same. We are all in this together.

  • Buro Cratz

    While confused about reason’s origins, collectivists claim that society must be controlled by small groups of intellectuals and academics.

  • Alyson Cruise

    People are reluctant to identify them as “men’s issues” because if you do, the response looks like this comments section.

    • Alyson Cruise

      bunch of people who’ve never read even a webpage about feminism anxious to tell you how it’s all nonsense, a bunch of lies about statistics, a load of people who don’t understand what bias is or why we even HAVE science, and half a dozen bitter, legitimately dangerous MRAs.

  • Terry Field

    Note the name.
    Isabel
    HARDMAN
    She is MALE!!!!
    They are all MALE, except the MEN who have become GAY.
    A dead nation.
    The stench is overpowering.

  • bobrob22

    shouldn’t this be required reading for the Advertising Standards body – who constantly reject complaints about misandric advertising.

  • bobrob22

    Check out DFS latest tv ad where a man is lifting one half of a sofa, whilst the (equal in every way) woman is pretending to be lifting the sofa. Can’t we get real and accept men and women are equal – but different. Winding men up with these ads probably doubtless is causing considerable damage.

  • michael stone

    lol at the butt hurt men on this thread. grow a pair dudes.

  • RMX

    Don’t worry, boys.

    The UK/USA economy is built entirely on DEBT. It won’t last for much longer. All these ‘inroads’ women/girls have made will soon be wiped out when the money runs out.

  • stackhouse

    Had a male written that, some of the love-dovey ‘we love men too’ feminists would have slaughtered him.

    Just reflect on that.

  • David

    Doing so well right up until that second to last paragraph
    “Women are still overwhelmingly the victims of physical and sexual violence”
    Wrong. Sexual violence being a predominantly female problem is a myth. Men are just less likely to report it.
    General violence on the other hand, predominantly male victims.

  • kelleth

    Reading the feminist comments here… why bother? Let them/us fall, no woman really cares, feminists even love suicidal men judging from the discussions here. Death and indiffirence are the only way out

    Mgtow

    • MGTOW

      MGTOW forever!

      • kelleth

        I am not an MGTOW, I’m a ugly nerd who never got and will get any love. I made my own terms with it, without the MGTOW label. But still power to ya xD

  • James Chilton

    After fifty years of relentless feminist propaganda, it’s finally dawning on some women that creating an androgynous utopia will also produce a crisis of masculinity.

  • AJ

    Women are not overwhelmingly the victims of violence, men are. It is just nobody cares about the male majority just the women.

  • Anthorny

    This is only a temporary phenomenon. With an EU Remain vote followed by relentless Islamic immigration and familial expansion, we will soon have a majority-Muslim Europe and UK. Then we’ll have Sharia law with the same sort of equal rights you see today in Saudi Arabia.

  • sandy gavin-atkinson

    Bullshit!

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