Features

Vote yes, Scots – and set the English free

Scottish independence will indeed be a disaster. But only north of the border

5 July 2014

5 July 2014

It is a sign of how no one expects Scotland to vote yes in September that no serious planning has been done about the consequences. By contrast, Gladstone shut himself away for days in the spring of 1886 drawing up the Bill that would have bestowed Home Rule on the Irish, plotting what it would mean for almost every aspect of the shared lives of Ireland and Britain. Scotland already has what Parnell would have called Home Rule. The creation of a Scottish Free State would be a different matter, and few have started to assess what that would mean.

This is a pity, not just for practical reasons, but for emotional ones too. Much of the argument over the Union is rooted in nostalgia and sentimentality: so many of the partisans either want to be Braveheart or Sir Walter Scott. There will be people on both sides who will find it hard to accept the result, whatever it may be. But I suspect that despite the trauma of separation, England would end up benefiting from Scotland voting for divorce.

It would be a matter of indifference to most outside Scotland whether an independent nation were instantly admitted into the European Union, or had to get in the queue behind Serbia. But the currency union would have to end. When George Osborne said this a few months ago it was construed as a threat, but the Scots would have been better to take it as a warning and plan accordingly. The Bank of England would cease to be the lender of last resort. The English taxpayer would no longer have to bear the liabilities of failed Scottish banks. Scotland could use the pound in much the same way as small islands in the Caribbean use the dollar. It would have to accept, as they do, that by doing so it would forfeit ultimate control of its economy. It would find sterling appreciating, without the possibility of devaluation for Scotland, and its cost of borrowing would rise considerably because of the uncertainty of the collateral.

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When we weigh such considerations, we start to realise some of the practical benefits to England of Scotland voting yes. Mr Salmond claims Scotland is self-supporting. This is true in the same way that grown-up children who live with their parents are self-supporting. The higher per capita spending that flows north of the border would stay in the English Treasury. Just think what the English (and Welsh, and Northern Irish) could do with it. Scotland has a culture of welfarism: England is seeking to rid itself of one. Separation means one nation no longer has to accommodate these damaging differences. The area north of Leeds and Manchester that Mr Miliband has this week complained is economically underperforming could become home to businesses fleeing what may well have to become a penal taxation regime in Scotland. Indeed, Mr Osborne should stand by to grant special tax status to Carlisle and Newcastle to make them the Cayman Islands of the north.

The proponents of Union say that England’s status would be diminished internationally without Scotland. It is hard to see how matters could get much worse. Apparently our place on the UN Security Council might be under threat. Given that we have more or less surrendered the effectiveness of our armed forces so that Mr Cameron can send large cheques to finance other countries’ space programmes, the great surprise is that our position isn’t fatally undermined already. We are told we could no longer station our nuclear submarines in Scotland’s deep-water ports. We managed to win the second world war despite the Irish denying the Royal Navy access to Irish ports. England would cope.

The political consequences have been caricatured as permanent Tory government, given how rarely Labour has won a majority of seats in England and Wales alone. I suspect the mechanism would be self-adjusting, and the one-party state would not come about: but it would certainly level the playing field. And it would also end the outrageous situation whereby Scottish MPs vote on matters that concern only the constituents of English and, sometimes, Welsh MPs.

It was an outrage, too, that voters in the rest of the United Kingdom were not asked to express in a referendum their views about the Union. Had a campaign been properly run in England about the net contribution the Treasury makes to Scotland, and had some of the anti-English propaganda that flies about routinely in Scotland been given wider currency in an English referendum campaign, the result would have been interesting. Yet perhaps the main reason to hope for separation is that the Prime Minister is said to be considering ceding more powers to Scotland if it votes to stay in the Union, by way of saying ‘thank you’. If the principal outcome is to give the parliament in Edinburgh yet more scope to wring money out of the English taxpayer, the first people to demand a second plebiscite on the Union will not be the Scots.


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Show comments
  • vieuxceps2

    It is indeed time for England,a name by which much of the world designates” Britain”,to become independent once again. We should all remember that the 1707 ,Act of Union, deprived England as well as Scotland of sovereignty.
    Much water under many bridges since then but a long burden can now be slipped off.Forget UN seats and silly submarines with super scuds, let’s have a land of our own again, beholden to none where we can work and live and earn our living and practise our arts.We’re good at that.
    I know it’s called Little England as a jibe,but the idea appeals to me.Perhaps I have grown too old? Or too wise?

    • Moputabee

      Or dementia ridden?

    • Wessex Man

      and to me and mine.

    • Tony Hendrix

      You belong tae the old school,thick as mince,move on.

      • Wessex Man

        You little charmer you, we stole nothing from you we saved your country from going bankrupt after it’s idiotic little adventure The Darien Scheme, which annoyed the Spanish somwhat.

        I know that a stupid little ranter won’t agree with me on any subject so would only ask that others within the Yes Campaign who might be travelling under the same impression check the same Scottish documents as I have in Strathclyde University and Edinburgh University.

    • rtj1211

      Every size of ‘nation’ ‘deprives’ some other bit of ‘sovereignty’.

      England denies Cornwall and Yorkshire ‘sovereignty’.

      Scotland denies the Orkneys and Shetlands ‘sovereignty’, something they might fancy to emulate Qatar as an energy power in future!

      Belgium denies the Walloons ‘sovereignty’, something they have been squabbling about for decades.

      Ditto Spain and the Catalans. Spain and France vs the Basques.

      Italy vs those of the Po Valley, further subdivided into Venetians, Lombardians, Sudtirolers etc etc.

      You’ll never stop people griping about this, because in every society one lot steal to the detriment of another lot.

      • Tony Hendrix

        You mean like the English stole our freedom,by jings boy,you’re right.

  • Andrew Constantine

    I think Simon Heffer’s article is timely, excellent and important. I hope it is widely read.

    The real question for me is what does it take for the English to assert their national identity in a politically influential way?

    I suggest the priority must be the establishment of an English Parliament
    – and there is of course the existing organisation ‘The Campaign for an
    English Parliament’. But if the CEP is to take off it needs a mass
    membership and preferably at least one serious sponsor and backer.

    Are there any patriotic Englishmen or Englishwomen out there who want to
    see England regain her national political institutions? We English did
    invent Parliament after all!

    • gram64

      We’ve already GOT an English parliament – it’s called the Palace of Westminster.

      Unfortunately, the Celtic fringes have managed to attach themselves to it, like blood-sucking leeches, over the centuries. I’ll be very happy to see the main leech removed.

      • Stephen Gash

        The English parliament devoid of sef-styled Celts should indeed remain in Westminster, the Mother of Modern Parliaments.

        • Gregory Mason

          Westminster and London are no longer English. A new English parliament should be created in York.

          • Stephen Gash

            London is and always will be England’s capital. Westminster is the Mother of Modern Parliaments and is where the English parliament will remain once free of the British. If a United Kingdom must exist then the logical geographical location for a British parliament is either Lancaster or Belfast. Belfast is a probable non-starter so Lancaster is the best place. It is about equidistant to Wales, N.Ireland and Scotland.

          • Wessex Man

            Sorry, I’m as English as you, ther’s no need for an English Parliament to be in London. In fact if I had my way all Government should be moved to somewhere close to the M42 and all representatives housed in Barracks based on Premier Inn Hotels.

          • rtj1211

            And how many worthy representatives do you think you would entice treating them like 18-year old squaddies, eh??

            You’re not going to be allowed to be a proper father as an MP, you’re going to be an absent one. You are not going to relax from a stressful day in a home, you are going to go back to your hotel room.

            You won’t create a better politics like that, friend. You’ll self-select those without experience, expertise, stature or humanity.

            I do hope you are standing under those conditions, since clearly you would do a perfect job, wouldn’t you??

          • Wessex Man

            I my friend would hope to attract the sort of candidate who would put the good of the Country above material personal gains, who would be willing to live in the same conditions, which arn’t that bad at Premier Inns while working away from home as real people do. They would then appreciate the comforts of home at week-ends and during the massive breaks that are taken from sitting, as of now.

            I personally am not standing but if I were I would be more than happy to serve my Country in any conditions my friend, it would bring Home to Parliamentarians how the rest of the Country live my friend.

          • rtj1211

            The Palace of Westminster is a hugely expensive anachronism, utterly unsuited to the modern 21st century world. Its history is irrelevant, its utility everything.

            Refurbishments cost 10 times what they should, the Chamber is medieval in its set-up and the day when MPs wore swords so needed two swords-width between them (as if that would stop them stabbing each other if they were truly riled) died, if not when the tank and automatic rifle were invented, certainly when the first nuclear bomb was exploded.

            England needs a modern Parliament building, casting the Houses of Westminster into their rightful place as tourist attractions of enormous significance and, hopefully, inward tourist investment potential.

          • Stephen Gash

            LOL!. Westminster Hall is the oldest parliamentary building in the world, and that’s where the English parliament will be when it is re-established. If you want to talk about bloated costs, talk about Holyrood, bailed out by English taxpayers again after going massively over cost.

        • Tony Hendrix

          Gash by name,gash by nature I take it?

          • Stephen Gash

            If I had a quid for every time I heard that from a Jock I could subsidise Scotland all on my own. Lack of originality is just one of many weak points Jocks have. Another thing is an abject lack of loyalty. What did Scotland have before oil that it would have had without the Union? Fishing and effall else.
            We have never needed Scotland and we certainly don’t need Scotland now. We’ll be saddled with them and even worse off when they cowardly vote ‘no’ in September.

          • rtj1211

            Whisky? Golf? Seed potatoes? A world leading centre for marine biotechnology research (hint, you need the particular waters of the West Coast for that)? Aberdeen Angus beef? Shortbread? Tartan tweeds?

            That’s without thinking. I’m sure there’s plenty more.

          • Stephen Gash

            All subsidised by England. Who the hell do you think brought potatoes to the British Isles? Tweeds? Scotland had a pitiful weaving industry before it joined the UK. That’s why most clan tartans were designed and originally made in Norwich. Aberdeen Angus beef is being pushed by the British at the expense of Hereford and other English beef. That’s what the UK is ALL about, robbing England of everything and handing it to the Celts, like the Green Investment Bank. While the hell economy-busting Scotland should get the GIB beggars belief. Away and vote yes.

          • Fraziel

            gash is slang for vagina you know and going by your comments its highly warranted. 300 BILLION you have taken from Scotlands oil. Thieves and parasites that YOU are.

          • Tony Hendrix

            What did we have,eh?
            Coal mining,whisky galore,the farming industry,tourism,……oh aye,Irn Bru. :)
            Have a nice day.

          • Stephen Gash

            Without the UK Scotland’s whisky industry would be about as prominent as Latvia’s vodka industry. Why would people bother to visit Scotland if not for the English permitting Scotland to join the UK after bailing Scotland out? Scotland’s farming industry is being boosted by the british government, once again at England’s expense. Without the Union, Scotland’s history would be like Norway’s – without the Vikings.

          • Tony Hendrix

            That comment says it all,only an idiot would make it.
            Per head of population,outwith London,Scotland has a much higher percentage of tourism than England has.
            In fact we are even overrun with English tourists.!!!

          • Wessex Man

            I’m as an Englishman embarrassed by Stephen Gash’s comments as I suspect most English people are. However his comments are par for the course from England and Scotland, which is why I’m hoping fro a Yes win.

          • Fraziel

            Except of course we have the UK so everything you just said is as pointless as it is petty as it is bigoted. Without the uk Scotlands whisky industry would be as prominent as Latvias vodka industry? LOL. My , you have been on the strong stuff today. A wee dram perhaps? Keep it up though, most amusing.

          • Drew Edward

            You could turn that right back round and ask what does England produce or give to the UK or rest of the world? Period dramas, a few boy bands and cider? It certainly isn’t a great deal of manufacturing as that’s lost to overseas markets long ago.
            Ever wondered why there are so many history programmes on TV these days? Nostalgia is about the only growing industry left.
            Face it, your towns and cities are the same giant faceless retail parks and sell out to Americanised culture too and if it wasn’t for the Arab and Russian money pouring into London it would be in decline too.
            All of the serious money made in The City flows to offshore tax havens and does precious little to help the majority.
            In terms of political leadership even the once formidable Conservative party now hides behind Nick Clegg’s skirt sending him into battle against Farage, while they are forced to rely on Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling to defend the Union. Even that creepy Saddam apologist George Galloway was praised in an article in the Spectator of late. Dear God.

          • Wessex Man

            You must live a very sheltered life on some Scottish Isle to think that England is not the powerhouse that drives the economy of the UK.

          • Fraziel

            Powerhouse? Outside London there is bugger all. Germany is a powerhouse, England most certainly is not.

          • Fraziel

            You certainly are a vagina going by that ignorant , wide sweeping stereo typing comment. Lack of originality is a Scottish weak point? What have you been smoking? What utter drivel.

          • Stephen Gash

            Thanks for making my point. Vote yes and jog on.

        • rtj1211

          No it shouldn’t. That’s like saying that all lunar exploration should take place in Sputnik, because it was the first rocket in space.

          • Stephen Gash

            That’s a crap analogy. Anyway, the English need shot of Scots in positions of power and influence, let’s get that done first.

      • Tony Hendrix

        Blood sucking,eh?
        If it was for Thatcher stealing our oil you lot would be out begging,instead we have food banks all over the place and up sails old Lizzie in a stupid boat that nobody up here gives a damn about, you idiot.

      • Fraziel

        You mean London? Thats where spending per head is highest after all.

        • Stephen Gash

          London is part of England. Glasgow’s spending is higher than the highlands.

    • Patricia

      Bring back Cromwell – there is the English Parliament !!!!!!!!!

      • Tony Hendrix

        Why would any sane person want a beheaded skeleton in Parliament,are you sick or what?

    • Tony Hendrix

      It’s utter bunkum from the beginning tae the end.
      Is it any wonder we up here,and I’m English btw,want rid of you lot,you are so arrogant you should be ashamed but you are too pig headed tae realise it.

      • Wessex Man

        What about Braveheart?

        • Tony Hendrix

          Awful film made by a 5 ft 8 inch American from Noo Yoik.

          • Richard

            hE IS aUSTRALIAN AND HOPE ITS A YES AND WE CAN END ALL THIS BICKERING. gO FOR IT.
            Ooops, just noticed I had caps on!!

      • The_greyhound

        A lie.

        You speak for a small and shrinking minority.

        Less than a hundred days before the pygmy wonder, salmond, is gone for good ……

        • Tony Hendrix

          A lie.
          I type for thousands of proud people who will be wearing a smile on Sept 19 then you can cry all you want,its happening.

    • fergus macerc

      really? what about the Tynwald?

  • Torybushhug

    The English have been denied embracing their natural character for too long now, the Scots too.
    Leave the Scots to grow their welfare dependant underclass and robotic buzzword narrative style (“all agencies are engaged in moving forward such that the landscape of stakeholders can capture a delivery of closure” – yuk) whilst we English ensure all able bodied people darn well work.

    • Iain Hill

      You must feel better now!

    • AtMyDeskToday

      I see the English embracing their natural character daily in the Speccy and DT postings. Yours is particularly pertinent.

    • trotters1957

      Is there an English character?. I’m a Lancastrian before English, I’m proud to be Lancastrian as are the Yorkies.
      I don’t have anything in common with Southerners, much more with the Scots and the Welsh.
      What you mean by England is the South.

      • Wessex Man

        is that a fact? please explain why the people of the North East voted 7 to 1 against when given the chance of their own Elected Assembly.

      • Tony Hendrix

        Well said sir,I salute you.

    • rtj1211

      I think you mean you ensure that they work under full-spectrum dominance surveillance, having their hard work stolen from them by those who consider them chattels.

      • Tony Hendrix

        We could be here until midnight y’know…….enjoy your half pint of Tetley’s bitter.

  • Sanctimony

    Scotland goes… so do over 40 Labour seats in Westminster and 10 = Lib Dems.

    Bring it on…. why is Dave dithering ?

    • Hegelguy

      I suppose he thinks of something more than pure party advantage. You are like a man welcoming amputation to save you washing your feet.

      • Wessex Man

        Sanctimony is doing no such thing but merely stating what more and more people in England feel would be in our best interest!

      • Sanctimony

        I can’t reach my feet !

    • uberwest

      Like the majority of people of non English ancestry, he feels no loyalty towards the English. As far as he is concerned, the English are simply there to be fleeced.

      • Daniel Fletcher

        And the English accept it because we’re okay with being used so long as no one thinks we’re using others. Please Scots help us out, and vote Yes.

  • http://www.englishstandard.org/ Wyrdtimes

    “The proponents of Union say that England’s status would be diminished internationally without Scotland. ”

    Actually the proponents of Union rarely mention England and never the English. But the idea that Scotland’s independence and the consequent end of the “UK” would diminish England is a sick joke.

    Within the so called Union the English have neither recognition or representation. no parliament, no first minister, no minister even, no department – nothing. As a result the English get the least per person funding and the worst most expensive services. English youngsters are buried under debt for an education and English oldsters are ruined by the price of care.

    When the UK ends England will live again. English taxes for England, English law for England, home rule for England.

    • Sanctimony

      Extremely well said, Sir ….

    • fergus macerc

      the welsh and northern irish will just have to like it or lump it, eh?

      • Wessex Man

        I wonder if the Scots were thinking of their fellow Celts the Welsh and Northern Irish, probably not at all!

        • mikewaller

          Why no one raises the 11 billion a year the UK taxpayer stumps up to fund Northern Ireland is beyond me. In the event that Scotland leaves, they should still expect to pay their share of this subvention. After all is was James VI of Scotland who was mainly responsible for kicking the whole mess off. Perhaps the fairest solution would be an Andorran model in which England, Ireland and Scotland took joint administrative and financial responsibility. With Wales, it seems to me the fairest choice would be between having as much or as little freedom as the English regions or going it alone. That said, I suppose that the status quo is about tolerable.

          • Wessex Man

            not when you think about it, why should Wales and NI continue to be subsidy junkies from England? Why should they have so many things free that we Englsh pay for and pay for theirs through the Barnett Formula, which in my view has since devolution turned into a British internal overseas aid.

            I would be more than happy to see the total break-up of the UK. Imagine the dependent Celtic fringe would no longer be able to blame we English for any imagined crime!

          • fergus macerc

            and england would become the isolated, racist, xenophobic plutocracy it so much desires to be

        • fergus macerc

          don’t forget the manx, cornish, bretons and galicians!

      • damo

        If England voted to be independent then yes!!

    • Damon

      Little Englander nonsense. The break-up of the Union will diminish us on the world stage. That may not matter to you, but it matters like hell to me.

      • Daniel Fletcher

        How comes fella? How would it make your life any worse? The average Luxembourger has a pretty good life despite their country having no influence on the world stage. Relax. Our buds the ‘mericans can do our bidding,

        • Jerry Erickson

          until it’s no longer beneficial.

        • RichardOakes

          They do theirs, sometimes our interests are aligned. Personally I’m not bothered about us on the world stage though.

      • Melanieae

        You are absolutely correct. In my opinion if the split happened, BOTH Scotland and the remaining UK would suffer. These dim politicians are arguing it out over keeping sterling or not. LIke big kids in the playground. Meanwhile the rest of the world looks on at this horrible mess thinking to take their foreign investment and money elsewhere.

        Don’t be surprised if this nonsense sends us ALL into a poverty pit of recession. You nationalists on both sides can then wave your flags right into a poverty line somewhere. Like at the end of lost football match and relegation. Ironically probably together. This union was made great jointly and should stay that way. Don’t be fooled by Mr Salmond and all his airy fairy dreams. He has no idea what the Scottish currency will be even. Don’t be fooled people he is playing roulette with peoples lives. This union is best kept together, risk free.

        • Damon

          “Don’t be fooled people, he is playing roulette with peoples lives. This union is best kept together, risk free.”

          Absolutely. Our image in the world is already being tarnished by this nonsense. Salmond and his kind are sowing the seeds of a legacy of bitterness and division that may last for generations. There is still time for sanity to prevail. The union is *not* lost yet.

          • Melanieae

            Lets hope sense prevails and the Scottish people vote NO.

    • Hammerstrike

      “Actually the proponents of Union rarely mention England and never the English.”

      Of course, that would be racist.

    • Robbie Wilson

      Heffer+Gash=England What a dynamic country to live in.

  • dado_trunking

    “…no serious planning has been done about the consequences.”
    Hahaha. Hilarious!

  • Stephen Gash

    Firstly, as an Englishman, although I despise the Union Jack and all things British, I’m sick and tired of seeing the Scottish flag above the Union Jack in just about every article published on Scotland’s secession. Scots are just not that important. Their national persona is a tam o-shantered, kilted busker with a massive hairy sporran and his best begging hand stuck out, whistling ‘Scotland the Brave’. A pig has more chance of flying over Mecca than Scots voting ‘yes’. It’s the biggest non-event of the 21st century.

    • Sanctimony

      Sick to death of the Scots… but they’ll never vote yes for dissolution… it’s just another window to air their perceived grievances ….

      • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxZsdWIuQRs Tahitiholiday

        It seems that they will only be happy when English taxpayers go bankrupt, paying for their socialist schemes.

        • pedestrianblogger

          The “Yes” campaigners seem to be unsatisfied with the extent to which the rest of Britain has subsidised their little socialist Utopia and imagine that there will be higher bidders, the EU for one. They are in for a VERY rude awakening.

          • Iain Hill

            There is no subsidy. A political trick!

          • Wessex Man

            of course there is you Nationalists will believe anything that you are told by Salmond, Wings over Scotland and McCrone alone, yet you won’t accept his idea for a return to your old currency of the Merk.

            Before the Barnett Formula we had from 1888 the Goschen Formula was your subsidy fix, you’ve now been subsidised for 226 years by the English.

          • Tony Hendrix

            I’ll gladly take my chances with the EU than with you lot of money chasers.

        • Tony Hendrix

          Aye,like the £486 billion your mob of greedy bastards want from us tae pay for the HS2 which will be as good tae us as an ashtray on a motorbike,wally.

          • rtj1211

            And who was it who paid Clydeside to build a couple of billion pound aircraft carriers, friend?? That would be the English, would it? With all the utility of a condom with holes in, as we are too poor to put the aircraft on the carriers anyway.

            We can argue to kingdom come about regional investment. Every bloody project on earth doesn’t benefit everyone.

          • Tony Hendrix

            Bunkum dear boy,it’s not the English taxpayer,its the British taxpayer who,s paying for it,just like that idiotic tin can with nuclear weapons that’s roaming the Clyde,an unwanted piece of junk.

          • Wessex Man

            Please supply your references for that amount and when it was annouced.

          • Daniel Fletcher

            I’ll live right next to HS2 and it’ll be nay good to mae too. I’m so disappointed in you for funding it.

      • Iain Hill

        Poor deluded souls. Insulated from any facts or insights, they just pour out their accumulated bile. The Spectator does a great public service in aid of the NHS by allowing tem to do so. Come to Scotland once we are neighbours ans seethe reality!

        • Wessex Man

          I wish you well in your quest, will you promise though to make Wings over Scotland with you when you go?

      • Tony Hendrix

        Aw poor wee you,here son,do you need mummy’s dummy,there there,go tae sleep now.

        • Wessex Man

          You still haven’t supplied your references for that amount nor when it was annouced, come on now!

      • Fraziel

        I am voting no but i am sick to death of the English. A nation jammed to the gunnels with louts, hooligans, chavs and bankers. The arrogance is mind boggling. But hey ho, your football teams shit now too, ha ha.

        • Daniel Fletcher

          You haven’t been to England have you?

    • Benbecula

      You misunderstand the purpose of the referendum – it is only part of the narrative – after Sept 18th , the next milestone will be “devomax” and increased powers for the Scottish parliament , then there will be questions about tax and spending, then a separate NHS , immigration policy. It is only just beginning.

      • Stephen Gash

        That’s the problem. The terms for Scotland’s secession should have been sorted out years ago, not left to the last minute and even post-referendum. We English have never had a say. The Scots have no mandate to break up the UK, with only 6 SNP MPs, and nobody has dared to ask the English what they feel about devo-max. However, we keep being told that busting up England is essential for the UK to survive. I, and millions of others, say ‘screw the UK’.

        • Blindsideflanker

          Me too. They wish to sacrifice England and English people’s constitutional rights for their defunct Britain.

          • Tony Hendrix

            You really are blind,ain’t you.
            Britain has been defunct for years,you still think you are the old empire,jolly hockey sticks,half pint old boy,tally ho,God give me strength,where do we get clowns like you,eh?

          • Wessex Man

            You display all the traits that persuade the English Nation, we would if we could support you in your quest for independence, it’s a constant worry that you won’t go you nasty little racist.

        • Iain Hill

          The union is not a prison but a partnership, and so any partner can choose to leave without te consent of the others. Stop ranting and deal in realities.

          • Stephen Gash

            I’ve just stated the realities and you call it ranting. The UK is anything, but a partnership to the English. Our so-called partners want to hack us to pieces. This is especially true of so-called Scottish nationalists, who are more concerned about breaking up England than their own secession from the UK.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            “This is especially true of so-called Scottish nationalists, who are more concerned about breaking up England than their own secession from the UK.”

            Some evidence to that please? Or is this just another rant? Do tell us.

          • Stephen Gash

            Salmond’s visit to my home town Carlisle this year on St George’s Day, of all days, for one thing. He regularly comes into Cumbria & Northumberland & Cornwall, stirring up division.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            I guessed right. Another rant. Paranoia is serious you know, don’t ignore it.

          • Wessex Man

            That’s not a rant it a fact, as he came to Liverpool and explained to the people there that they would be better off by becoming independent from London!

          • AtMyDeskToday

            If so he was speaking the truth.

          • Wessex Man

            So when given the truth you change your comments from asking for evidence to saying he’s only speaking the truth, you are just another Cybernat nutjob.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            If that’s so I’m in the company of another nutjob. More anger, more hatred.

          • Wessex Man

            I must agree you would be a much happier soul with your anger and hatred.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Busy day you’re having today. Trying to fill your empty existence?

          • Tony Hendrix

            That is fact.!!!

          • Wessex Man

            I know it is that why I posted it do keep up.

          • rtj1211

            He’s got the right to put forward that argument.

            You don’t have to believe it you know and you have the opportunity to tell him why.

            Did your parents chide and deride you as a child, by any chance??

            It’s one explanation for being so anti-Free Speech…….

          • Wessex Man

            He certainly does have that right, AtMyDeskToday has no right to accuse people of lying when their not.

            As for your personal sad attack on my parents, you are a really sad person.

          • Tony Hendrix

            No,as much you might not believe me,many folk in the north of England are pig sick of London,there is more money being piled into that city than Birmingham,Manchester,Liverpool and Scotland ALL put together,Boring Boris Johnson is laughing at Northerners and you can damn well deny it but its a fact,as for God’s country,Cornwall,well is it any wonder Alex goes there for a wee break.

          • Stephen Gash

            No Scot speaks for English folk in north of England or anywhere else in England for that matter. I live in Carlisle in the hostility to Scots in Cumbria grows daily. You’ve just made my point perfectly. You are a typical Scots nat. You care more about causing division in England than you do about Scotland leaving the UK. Independence my saintly and never kilted. You’re a devo-maxer like the rest of Scotland the Brave.

          • rtj1211

            He does have the right to, you know. It’s called Free Speech, something most English hold most dear in their anti-EU rants.

            The thing about Free Speech is that you have to let the most hateful, distorted, twisted bastards speak in the most objectionable ways at the most objectionable times in the most objectionable places.

            Salmond in Carlisle?? Sounds pretty small beer to me.

            About as terrible as Farage in Scotland, which I heartily approved of.

            Now if you told me I had to listen to Pol Pot promoting genocide, female slavery etc etc as an invited guest of the Palace of Westminster, then yes my limits may have been breached. Not to mention inviting acolytes of old Adolf to promote finishing off what the second raters in the 1940s were too squeamish to do.

            But wee ‘Eck putting his case for an Independent Scotland, using democratic means, free speech and the potential to be called an overweight, twisting, two-faced, self-serving shyster by his English audience??

            Sounds just what Free Speech is supposed to be about, eh?

          • Tony Hendrix

            Farage said he was coming tae Scotland and bringing volunteers tae knock on our doors hoping tae convert us,is he sending them with bouncers,if not then I can see a few folk with black eyes.

          • Stephen Gash

            Miss the point why don’t you? I said Salmond and his pretendy nationalists care more about breaking up England than they do about Scotland’s secession. All they want is devo-max with England broken up into regions and ‘city states’ thus making Scotland the largest geo-political entity in the UK.

          • Daniel Fletcher

            He’ll be trying to annex Northumberland once he’s got Scotland, just to cosy up to his best bud Putin.

          • Tony Hendrix

            Nonsense,we’re just sick tae death of bailing you out of everything under the sun,Independence isn’t about the SNP but you are just too thick tae understand.

          • Wessex Man

            The only ones ranting are Stephen Gash and you Cybernat nutjobs.

        • Tony Hendrix

          Are you a lunatic or what!!!
          What if it ends up a no vote them that stupid bastard Cameron decides tae take us out of the EU,73% of Scotland want tae stay in it,he also drags Wales and N.I. out tae….just because your mob want it,get lost,is that what is called democracy,of course its not,it’s called ‘Do as I say’.

          • Stephen Gash

            With your fake Scotchy accented posts you’re clearly a troll. Get back to your bottle.

      • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxZsdWIuQRs Tahitiholiday

        What if England just says No? ‘No, you may not have a state within a state, more even than you already do!’

        • Blindsideflanker

          Ah but the British establishment have made sure we won’t be asked the question. They can hardly bring themselves to mention our countries name, as for giving the English a representative say on devolution, Scots or English devolution, hell would have to freeze over first. The British political class won’t debate it, and the British media won’t ask them about it.

      • Iain Hill

        Our NHS has always been separate. Work on facts and realities.

        • Bazza

          Then it’s not national is it?

          • Wessex Man

            National to the Scots is what I think he means, although mostly he means nothing.

        • Stephen Gash

          Separate but bailed out under the table such as the £2bn black hole Cameron and Lansley filled in 2012. Not to mention the £700m of EU cash diverted from England to the Celtic Fringe “for the sake of the Union” that the Scot Michael Fallon crowed about last year.

        • Stephen Gash

          Keep billowing that Scotch Mist.

      • Tony Hendrix

        We want free from England,nothing less,end of…

        • CO Jones

          There are many English, myself included, praying that your wish is granted. Be gone, and good riddance!

          • Tony Hendrix

            Spoken like a true Englishman,well said old boy.

        • The_greyhound

          Who is “we”?

          do you mean the Weirs’ tragic little band of supporters?

      • Daniel Fletcher

        Please vote Yes, so I don’t have to hear about “devomax” for the next three years.

    • Tony Hendrix

      We are above you in everything we do,we just need shot of you bloody lot once and for all,you are like a dead carcuss tae us up here.

      • rtj1211

        I am sure you are above the backsides of many……

        • Tony Hendrix

          I’m soooooo offended,how childish you really are,eh?
          You’re as funny as the Chuckle Bros……..not a lot.

          • Wessex Man

            You’ve proved with your Fellow Cybernat nutjobs what real racists are like, your sheer stupidity is clearly shown when you write a version of “Scottish” that most Scots wouldn’t understand.

  • mutton

    It is good to hear English voices raised but unfortunately those voices can only grumble we are denied a say in the future of Britain and thus our own England.
    The choice and our future lies as securely with the Scots as it did for the duration of the Blair/Brown era. We are denigrated, humiliated and dismissed by the enemy within the British establishment. I cannot see a hope in hell that they will vote yes. The British government buys its enemies and craps on its friends. Not enough English know that.

  • ianess

    Short, fat, ginger with a permanent grievance – does Heffer have Scottish blood in him?

    • Sanctimony

      Probably not… but he certainly has a point…

    • rtj1211

      No but I do think he’s in a bad temper finding out that his true joy of cricket has been sullied with industrial level epidemics of spot fixing, match fixing and series fixing in recent times……..

  • uberwest

    England’s population has swollen by approximately 5 million (mostly Labour voting) immigrants in the past 10 years or so. Don’t take it for granted that by getting rid of the scotch, we would get rid of Labour at the same time.

    • AtMyDeskToday

      Please do get rid of the scotch, giving up the drink may well clear your mind and allow a coherent position to be argued.

      • Wessex Man

        hur hur hur, when you can find some coherant comments coming from your Scottish cybernat nutters let me know.

      • uberwest

        Yawn. Yet another scotch grammar narcissist.

        • AtMyDeskToday

          Are you trying for humour or just drunk again?

          • uberwest

            Neither. I use the word ‘scotch’ as a general term to describe anything originating from scotland. Some people may worry about whether to use ‘scotch’ or ‘scottish’ or ‘scots’. But there’s no good reason to worry, ‘scotch’ does the job, and if it winds up certain nationalist narcissists, so much the better.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Well, not trying for humour and not drunk, so stupid (and clearly wound up). LOL!

          • uberwest

            Nope, wrong again. Are you scotch people ever right?

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Usually, now is a prime example.

  • Andy

    Unfortunately the Scots cannot be relied upon to vote Yes. They hope to screw more powers and more money out of Westminster. They should be told ‘not so fast’. Devolution was a blatant piece of gerrymandering by the Fascist Labour Party. We should address this by devolving to England. There is a 60+ seat Tory majority in England so why are LibDems meddling in purely English matters ? And why wasn’t the idiot Clegg interested in addressing the West Lothian Question ??
    Also the Scottish Parliament should be forced to raise the revenue it spends, so devolve some tax powers and abolish Barnett.It should not be allowed to borrow, but forced to live within its means.

    • AtMyDeskToday

      “Unfortunately the Scots cannot be relied upon to vote Yes”

      Consider for a moment what that means and you’ll laugh no longer.
      For the next many years my fellow voters, those of a socialist persuasion, will be sending you a team of Labour MPs to Westminster. Being a conservative I despair at that, as you will. Secondly, at the promised EU referendum the majority of Scots will vote to stay in. I pity the UKippers when they waken up to that fact. So laugh while you may.

      • Wessex Man

        For someone with your moniker you don’t spend much time at your desk do you?

        Whilst so keen to leave the Union of the UK, you are desperate to say in the EU, you pity we UKipperss when we wake up to that fact, the only fact that matters is that you are having your referendum in September and hopefully you’ll be independent when we get ours, however as Scotland returned it’s first UKip MEP you may find that the majority of Scots are changing their minds about Europe.

        Going on to Europe and the EU, Germany’s economy is fading, France is in decline while Spain, Italy and Portugal are all stagnant
        with growing unemployment. UK and USA meanwhile have joined the rest of the world and are at last in growth.

        I wish you the very best of luck in your referendum this September but really think you should be out canvassing on the doorsteps instead of sat at your desk today.

        • AtMyDeskToday

          “For someone with your moniker you don’t spend much time at your desk do you?”

          “but really think you should be out canvassing on the doorsteps instead of sat at your desk today.”

          Those two sentences together don’t make sense do they. How like you.

          • Wessex Man

            and yours do? get you gone out pounding the streets rallying the faithful in your fight for independence, waste no more time with your silly little rants here.

    • rtj1211

      One does have to say that there should be an English referendum on an English Parliament/devolution for England if ‘any further treaty changes transfer more powers away from Westminster to Cardiff, Stormont and Holyrood’.

      I’m sure Ed Miliband would be up for that, wouldn’t he?? Couldn’t possibly not be if his EU policy has any credibility.

  • AtMyDeskToday

    I’m certain that the Speccy is sorely disappointed that as of this posting this bile-fest article had received only 24 click-count comments.

    • pedestrianblogger

      100 up!

      • AtMyDeskToday

        …and still not a single intelligent one from you.

        • Wessex Man

          well if you were to offer an intelligent debate to anyone you might get the same courtesy shown to you , no don’t bother we love to laugh at you as you are.

  • Cymrugel

    If the opinions expressed below the line here are sincere and not just trolling it’s a wonder that it has taken Scotland such a long time to get to this point.

    Being in a union with a nation who regards them with such contempt; who insist that the union,despite having been forced upon Scotland by bribing corrupt aristocrats and the use of overwhelming military force, was in fact a bit of social work carried out purely out of goodwill; that Scotland is an economic basket case that drains the coffers of England and that the Scots basically contribute nothing to the national wealth or welfare is so benightedly stupid, racist and arrogant I would advise any Scot with a grain of sense to separate themselves from this pack of bigots post haste.

    The writers logic however seems more sinister. Eager to see the creation of a permanent one party state that supposedly eschews “welfarism” , he is cheering on the effective end of democracy in England.

    Oh what a wonderful land it will be – no welfare, no NHS, no state education. Just a nation of impoverished illiterate peasants and a staggeringly wealthy few living the high life in London, waited upon by their third world helots. Third world here we come!

    As one who faced serous illness quite recently and who would undoubtedly have died if the NHS did not exist,I hope Mr Heffalump will forgive me if I do not cheer too loudly when he and his kind destroy the institution which saved my life.

    But then, not being in the position to pay for expensive medical care privately I am of coursed an unworthy parasite who is better off dead than costing the tax payer.

    • pedestrianblogger

      Wtf?

      • AtMyDeskToday

        If that’s the best you can do then it’s true you are pedestrian.

        • Wessex Man

          as against Iain Hill’s stupid remark about Hadrians Wall? If an Englishman had expressed similar sentiments you would have been calling said Englishman a racist , do grow up.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Are you his (pedestrianblogger) PA by any chance?

          • Wessex Man

            No I’m not and do please try to grow up.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            What to be as angry and full of hatred as you?

          • Wessex Man

            please show where I’ve ever been angry and full of hatred whilst replying to people like yourself.

    • Iain Hill

      We will follow your future with great interest from behind the safety of Hadrians Wall. Yours is the only sane comment in today’s distressing outpouring of bile.

    • AtMyDeskToday

      Thanks for introducing me to a previously unknown word…helots. It perfectly describes the utopia to which the majority of the posters think they aspire to. I wish them well in their journey into hell.

    • Denis_Cooper

      You have to understand that Tories like Boris Johnson went out of their way to stir up the English against the Scots, purely to seek party political advantage over Labour in England. Brown invented the “Union dividend” to deter Scots from defecting from Labour to the SNP, and then Johnson and others took that idea of the put-upon English constantly subsidising the sponging socialistic Scots and used it to try to get people in England to vote Tory not Labour.

      • Wessex Man

        Dennis, I normally agree with you every sentiment but you are completely wrong there. Boris Johnson hasn’t the brain to stir his own tea!

        • Denis_Cooper

          So someone else writes his Telegraph articles for him?

          • Wessex Man

            yes of course they do.

          • Denis_Cooper

            I looked back for some of Johnson’s Telegraph articles but none of the links work any longer. No need for google to do anything, the Telegraph routinely deletes articles after a few years, which is why if it’s something important like an article by Cameron making yet another set of promises which he has no intention of keeping I usually take a copy while it’s still there on the website.

            However this link to the Scotsman in October 2006 still works:

            http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/tory-strategy-in-disarray-after-loose-cannon-johnson-targets-the-scots-1-1143075

            “Tory strategy in disarray after ‘loose cannon’ Johnson targets the Scots”

            “BORIS Johnson, the flamboyant Conservative front-bencher, yesterday plunged his party into a fresh row by claiming that Scotland is “subsidised” by England and suggesting that a Scots MP could not become prime minister of the UK.”

            “One source at Central Office described Mr Johnson as “an idiot who should learn to keep his trap shut”.”

            But Johnson was not the only Tory pursuing this line; it all started up after the 2005 general election with the argument that the Labour majority in the new Parliament was now being supplied by its MPs elected in Scotland and yet they even with Scotland having its own devolved parliament they were prepared to vote on England-only matters.

            The fact that Labour won so many seats in Scotland mainly because over several decades the Tories had foolishly made themselves unelectable didn’t seem to matter.

          • rtj1211

            A knighthood for that worthy of Central Office!! Boris always responds to firm discipline…..

          • Tony Hendrix

            How many whacks on his bahookie does he like?

          • Tony Hendrix

            Go tae You Tube,type in ” Boris Johnston,a pound in Croydon”
            Enough said about that bampot.
            It shows how thick Londoners are when he’s a Mayor of said city.

          • Wessex Man

            Still waiting for you to supply the references for the£486 Billion you claim and the annoucement date, come now let’s be having them.

          • Wessex Man

            Well I would totally agree with you, do you think that I’m a Tory follower of Boris Johnson? I wouldn’t walk across the road to stop an angry Scottish Cybernat nutjob from strangling him.

            The establishmwent within the UK will pull any trick possible to try and frighten the Scots Nats to vote no in September, whilst people like myself will try to do anything to persuade them to vote yes.

          • rtj1211

            How much of his £5000 weekly fee does he spend in outsourcing?? If it’s less than £4000, then he really is a rentier supreme……

    • Wessex Man

      It’s seems to me that the bile you describe has mostly come from Scottish Cybernat nutjobs who the Yes Campaign are now trying to disown.

      The rabid anti-English comments that have been on these pages and every blog which carries any mention of Scotland are completely in denial of all sanity!

      • Drew Edward

        Your comments are ironic given that registered participants in the No campaign, the Orange Order, have amassed an estimated 50 000 Orangemen from all over Scotland and Northern Ireland parading through Glasgow today in support of the Union, with all police leave cancelled to deal with the drunken disorder, sectarian insults and songs, with the main intention of the march is intimidating residents in the East End of the city purely because they happen to be Catholic.
        The Progressive Unionist Party, closely linked to paramilitary group the UVF, has already been in Scotland holding meetings about campaigning against independence while the National Front applied to hold a rally on Hitler’s birthday in Aberdeen as part of their opposition to Scottish independence.
        So if you think the Yes campaign is the only one worried about having a few extremists in their ranks, think again.

        • Wessex Man

          Who said I did think that the Yes Campaign is the only one worried about having a few extremeists in their ranks? The fact that the Orange OIrder can gather 50,000 to parade with their stupid banners in this day and age shows me that sectarianism is alive and in rude health in Scotland as in Norhern Ireland!

          It’s not something that I as an Englishman living in the 21st Century wants nothing to do with and that is one of the reasons I would be ecstatic at a Yes win in Scotland and would be more than happy to see Wales and Northern Ireland become independent.

    • Tony Hendrix

      Great post,best I’ve read yet.
      Likewise,I’d be dead if it wasn’t for the NHS.
      Did you notice Cowboy Cameron dishing out a Cancer Care contract worth billions yesterday,the usual suspects will no doubt be pushing the other pigs out of the way,I suspect Branson,what a traitor of a guy he has become,will be first in the Q no doubt.

    • The_greyhound

      Droning nonsense.

      the contempt, well-deserved, is aimed at the nationalist minority.

      If there is any ill-will or bitterness, the SNP has only itself to blame.

  • swatnan

    After seeing Simon Sharma’s Series and the special on Bannockburn, disgusted at the behaviour of Ed I and Ed II, and equally of Balliol and The Bruce and Mel Wallace. Thousands of English and Scots slaughtered in a carnage. And Ed I started the genocide of Jews.
    That is the Inglorious History of the British Isles. Thats what needs to the taught in our Schools. Not the cosy English Country Gardens biscuit tin history. Never again.

    • Moputabee

      What a lovely dreamy world you live in, judging those in the past by present day standards…

      • rtj1211

        Ah, the old story of: ‘I made my billions through rape, loot and pillage but to protect my pile, I must criminalise anyone else doing it’.

        Yes………

  • tjamesjones

    I agree. Give Alex Salmond his deep-fried dream.

  • FrankS2

    Why are only those Scots living in Scotland given a vote? Do Scots who move south of the border surrender their potential Scottish nationality?

    • rtj1211

      More to the point, do the numerous Scots who do that and carry out electronic surveillance on natives deserve to be shot as spies??

  • Denis_Cooper

    I’m sure that at a meeting some years ago I heard Simon Heffer say that whatever the English and the Scots had done they had done better together. So what has happened to change his view on that?

    • Wessex Man

      He has no doubt grown tired of the constant bleating, blaming and abuse from the rabid Scottish Nats, who seek to blame the English for all their woes. Whilst we have no power to influence any decisions taken because we were left out when Scotland got it’s Parliament and Wales it’s Assembly and new improved Labour tried to break up our nation, one of the oldest functioning nations and the only nation not to have it’s Parliament

      I’m more than happy to see the total breakup of this disunited Kingdom and hope that the Welsh go next.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Well, we must agree to disagree about the desirability of smashing our country to pieces because we English can’t manage to elect MPs who will do what is obviously necessary and desirable and insist that there must be a devolved parliament for England rather than treating us with habitual contempt.

      • AtMyDeskToday

        Something stirred you up today, what with all this bile-fest of yours. Was it the analysis of poll results I read the other day that shows UKIP getting zero seats at Westminster next GE?

        • Wessex Man

          I do wish you would pay attention, the Tory Party are noe predicting that Ukip will take at least 189 seats off of them at the next Election, they are even now blanket bombing the seats they think they will lose in 2015, yesterday all the Tory volunteers they could gather were doing so in the Hengrove district of Bristol.

          You really should get an education and realise that I’m not having a bile-fest merely patronising a rather silly little Cybernat nutjob.

        • Wessex Man

          I do wish you would pay attention, the Tory Party are noe predicting that Ukip will take at least 189 seats off of them at the next Election, they are even now blanket bombing the seats they think they will lose in 2015, yesterday all the Tory volunteers they could gather were doing so in the Hengrove district of Bristol.

          You really should get an education and realise that I’m not having a bile-fest merely patronising a rather silly little Cybernat nutjob.

      • Drew Edward

        England has no power or influence? Except it has 85% of the population, therefore the biggest block of votes. The answer is staring you in the face. Create a party to represent English views in Parliament or to campaign for a Parliament for England, vote for this party in large numbers and hey presto, through democracy you will get the desired change. That’s how the SNP did it, they stole enough Labour votes to scare them into backing devolution.

        My understanding is the English Democrats, Campaign for an English Parliament etc can barely scrape together a few hundred council seats at best across the whole of England, which would suggest there is not the support for a devolved parliament for England as you suggest.

        • IndependentEngland

          The SNP have never managed to return more a few MPs to Westmister. Not much support for independence is there?

          • Drew Edward

            In the 1970s the SNP got a third of the votes polled in Scotland and had 11 MPs which put pressure on Labour to offer devolution. Since 1999 the SNP save their cash and campaigning for Scottish elections now because it’s the best chance of holding office and getting referendum legislation through parliament, which even if they had won all 50 MPs in Scotland still wouldn’t have been possible in Westminster.

        • rtj1211

          I”m not sure I agree with you there, it’s just that the British media has conditioned the English otherwise.

          • Drew Edward

            The SNP traditionally has few supporters in the press and most papers in Scotland are pro-Union but the internet and social media means newspapers are dying out and along with them, loyalties to traditional parties. It’s a case of being patient and exploiting the weaknesses in the mainstream parties.

        • Wessex Man

          That wouldn’t be the Englsh Democrats who a few years ago offered the IRA an alliance would it?

          The Capaign for an English Parliament handed in to Downing Street in 2007 a petition asking for a referendum toward an English Parliament, I am imformed that one Gordon Brown had it destroyed.

    • AtMyDeskToday

      “So what has happened to change his view on that?”

      Money from the Speccy.

    • rtj1211

      The orders of his editor and the continuing invoices from his children’s public school bursar.

  • Kubrickguy

    Labour would lose 42 Scottish seats in Westminster or most of their majority. Someone in labour did not think this through!

    • Wessex Man

      They thought very seriously about it and thought that the Scots would be truly content to have their own Parliament and continue to send to Westimster all their Labour Scottish Taliban MPs (as they were branded by the political writers before I get in trouble for saying so) to control Westminster.

      New Labour got that wrong as well!

  • http://twitter.com/WinstonCDN WinstonCDN

    Time for Quebec to go as well…

  • Drew Edward

    Priceless. The Spectator columnists and readers are beginning to sound more and more like the Tea Party everyday! Like it or not UK Cabinet Ministers are being forced up here every week with forced smiles to grovel and beg for us to stay in the Union and it’s hilarious. I haven’t laughed so much since election night 97.

    On a serious note, if Scotland is such a financial burden on the Treasury, how come the Conservatives, UKIP and the majority of right wing think tanks and newspapers who support them are so anti-independence? Presumably the likes of the Mail, Express and Telegraph have turned into benevolent charitable organisations in the time I’ve been on holiday? I’ve seen dozens of articles praising the likes of George Galloway, Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown who overnight have turned into ‘serious credible voices’ in the debate. Wonderful. Keep it coming.

    • Farquharson

      Here in Dorset opinion towards Scotland, if expressed at all, vacillates between disinterest and mild encouragement to jog on.

      • Drew Edward

        Sure that’s the beauty, most people in England are gloriously unaware of what’s going on.

        I’m not sure which way you vote but you know what is also amusing? Tory donors are contributing the lions share of the donations towards the Better Together campaign because the trade unions are wisely saving their cash for the General Election. So Labour activists are doing the door knocking but all the funding is coming from the Tories. Millions of pounds worth of Tory money is being channeled into a campaign led by Labour, what could possibly go wrong! Hope the Tories have written that cash off as bad debt!

      • justejudexultionis

        You’re called Farquharson and live in Dorset – the soft underbelly of Britain. Get thee back to Invercauld!

    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxZsdWIuQRs Tahitiholiday

      What on g-d’s green earth do you know about ‘the Tea Party’. I put it to you that you know nothing — along with most Britons and most Leftists everywhere on the planet.

      • Drew Edward

        An anti-politics, appeal to traditional Christian values type campaign masquerading as a broad grassroots movement pledging to save the country from ruin, but actually funded and run by the same old elite, investment bankers and faceless media editors as the other parties. Ring any bells? I’ll give you a clue, their most high profile figure has a permanent seat on Question Time and recently did well in the European elections.

        • Tahitiholiday

          Total rubbish. The tea party is indeed a broad grassroots movement, wanting SMALL government and LOW taxes. Nothing sinister about that.

  • section9

    It just occurred to me.

    What if, after a few years as a Failed State, Scotland applied to Congress to join the Union?

    President Sean Connery?

    We could do worse. In fact, since 2001, we have.

    • portle44

      We already have Scotland in the Union.Its capital is Detroit.

    • The_greyhound

      “President Sean Connery?”

      Aren’t you expected to pay your income tax in order to stand for office?

  • john

    Pictures of Mrs W, Phil and their factotum Dave naming a new pointless warship must give real support to the YES camp. What better evidence of the London colonial power showing its authority to the local peasants?

    • AtMyDeskToday

      Actually it beats me how we could actually have built this thing at Rosyth since, according to the Speccy posters, all of Scotland is on the dole or otherwise pretty useless.

      • john

        Yes, I thought that also.

        • AtMyDeskToday

          No you didn’t, you couldn’t think of anything original so you piggy-backed. Do try harder.

          • john

            What a sour comment.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            My profound apologies. I mistook your succinct comment as being a sour, ironic one, but on looking at your history I see you did appear to mean what you said. Peace.

          • john

            A courteous apology – thanks. I very much agree with your view.

          • Wessex Man

            oh dear theres no hope for Bonny Scotland based on you two.

          • Wessex Man

            you will get used to them from this half-wit.

      • rtj1211

        You did it because Broon bunged you a contract for votes.

        • AtMyDeskToday

          What on earth has that to do with skills, ability and hard work. Relevance?

    • pedestrianblogger

      £6.2bn of British tax-payers’ money spent providing jobs in Rosyth and still you people whine.

      • AtMyDeskToday

        Who’s whining, aside from you?

        • Wessex Man

          you whine constantly, who are you going to whine at if hopefully you win the referendum?

    • rtj1211

      Err…that warship was commissioned by old Broon as an electoral bung north of the border.

      He went down as the government official of the century after proudly explaining that the two aircraft carriers cost so much that Britain couldn’t afford to put any aircraft on them.

      His next job is selling condoms with holes in to Germans and Italians, as their genetic stock is in danger of being overwhelmed by immigrants.

      • john

        Still consistent with my point about London elites offering occasional handouts to the plebs.

        • Wessex Man

          He’s from Scotland in case you haven’t noticed, his near last mean spirited act was to close all the disabled dactories and workshops in England and thwen had the nerve to plead that the two Scottish establishments in his area of Scotland should be retained.

  • Lady Magdalene

    There’s not a hope of the Jocks voting to stop the flow of English money into Scottish hands.

    • AtMyDeskToday

      A Lady-Boy eh?

    • AndrewMelville

      If only that were true, but instead it is the Inglish Piggies who keep trousering Scottish Siller. Always have and always will.

  • Terence Wilkinson

    I know that Gladstone is a hero to Mr Heffer but he has forgotten the salient fact of the Irish Home Rule Bill: Gladstone lost the vote and split his party. There is no point making plans while the votes have yet to be cast.

  • Peter Thomson

    Dear Mr Heffer and your friends at the Spectator,

    Please keep up the good work with your ignorant and ill informed, ‘more right wing and mental than your pal Alan Cochrane in the Torygraph’, posts.

    It is nice to see all the love that comes to Scotland from the people of England – especially all the generous UKIP and Tory posters who basically want us to shut up and get back into our mud huts. Scots know your place is the theme of your post and its accompanying thread.

    Mr Cameron could not fill a hall with 1000 Conservatives in Perth yesterday, the big ‘how Dave was going to save the Union’ Rally was 70% empty, Mr Cameron’s accompanying message 100% empty as he tried to bribe Scotland with money that was ours in the first place. 2015 – 16 will see the Scotch budget cut by £3.5 billion, as an incentive Mr Cameron was offering the equivalent of £15 million a year just to Glasgow for five years – that is in effect a £3 billion cut all before you take into consideration the impacts of Conservative cut backs on the NHS in Scotland via Barnet.

    In 2013-14 Scotland will contribute over £60 billion to the UK Treasury and get £30 billion back, the Scottish economy is running a surplus of 8.7% of its GDP and decade by decade since 1950 has generated a surplus for the UK Treasury; in the 1970’s alone this was £29 billion for the decade before oil started coming ashore in any serious volume. Currently Scotland is responsible for over 25% of Sterling’s foreign exchange earnings – just how will no currency union work when the £660 million increase rUK business will face in its trading costs with Scotland are factored in?

    The view outside ‘Spectator World’ is Cameron is about to lose Scotland, the rUK will leave the EU, the USA will dump rUK as its bestest mate as it is not in the EU while Northern Ireland and Wales may seek to exit from the rUK to rejoin the EU. The impact on Sterling of no currency union will see capital flight unless interest rates are raised, making the problem of the unstructured debt the UK and the City of London is sitting on, of around 400% of the UK’s current GDP, when it goes critical.

    Of course, us ‘mud hut subsidy jocks’ are not supposed to know about any of this but sadly for the Wessex men of this world, we Scots still have a very high level of literacy and numeracy along with more degree educated people per head of the population of Scotland than the rest of the EU.

    But please carry on with your ludicrous claims, your crass put downs, your frankly racist commentary about ‘subsidy Jocks’ because your ignorance and arrogance is the Yes Campaign’s biggest gain and advantage. So may I thank you, Mr Heffer and your rabid right wing posters, in advance, for your contribution to a winning Yes vote in September.

    Love,

    Yes Campaign Volunteers.

    • justejudexultionis

      Aye, vote for independence.

      SAOR ALBA 2014 – THA SINN DEISEIL

      • The_greyhound

        Comically, the best the nationalists can come up with is to write their nonsense in Irish as opposed to English.

        Wouldn’t you think with 307 years to think about it, they could have come up with a language of their own?

        Perhaps in the next 307 years of the Union.

    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxZsdWIuQRs Tahitiholiday

      Oh, the humanity. And amazingly, you really believe this.

      Hint: The so-called Torygraph no longer exists: it’s now The Guardian Lite. And the Tory party is the home of the warmed-over Leftists the Labour party wouldn’t have because their supporters, such as Rod Liddle, require something more rigorous.

    • The_greyhound

      The Scots crowd were in excellent voice yesterday, booing the pygmy SNP leader. Just wait for the public humiliation that awaits the ghastly little creep In Glasgow at the end of the month.

      Word is salmond will stay away, afraid of the reception he’ll get.

      • Wessex Man

        These Cybernat nutjobs do seem to be getting a tad more abusive of late, you don’t think it’s because they now realise they haven’t worked hard enough or in the case of most of them not at all to persuade to average Scottish voter to vote yes do you?

        I must say that I’m must disappointed at the lack of progress toward a Yes vote at this late stage.

        • The_greyhound

          The cybernats are simply drowning in their own bile. Quite an amusing spectacle.

          We’re hoping most of them leave the country after September taking most of Scotland’s social problems with them.

  • matimal

    Scotland get far more from Westminster than it pays. That’s the point of this article.

    • AtMyDeskToday

      Errr…no. Is there any point to you?

      • matimal

        Uh…yes. Are you a waste of skin?

        • pedestrianblogger

          Show some respect. He is a very intelligent commenter who calls people “Lady-Boys” and has learnt the meaning of the word “helot” today.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Don’t forget “pedestrian”.

          • pedestrianblogger

            200.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Who’s counting? Well you are clearly and that is so very clearly pedantry. Don’t you have something more interesting to fill your empty life.

          • pedestrianblogger

            Who’s counting? You were, yesterday, and today counting is “pedantry”? You ARE a funny little person.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            Actually my comment of yesterday was an astute and wholly accurate comment on the state of play at that time, and may well have stimulated an increase in comment, of which you are a useless contributor. Why not go off and play with your very little person.

          • pedestrianblogger

            “Astute”! “May well have stimulated an increase in comment”! You flatter yourself. Grossly.

          • AtMyDeskToday

            When faced with a moron who is determined to have the last word, however mindless and pointless then I say, you got it. Enjoy your victory while you tickle your little person. Bye.

          • pedestrianblogger

            Cheerio, sonny. You have been very mildly amusing.

          • Wessex Man

            yes, I must admit to a little regret that he is no longer blessing us with his presence, he was always a laugh.

    • http://garve.scott-lodge.com Garve Scott-Lodge

      That is the point of the article Matimal, and it’s wrong.

      On average more is spent by the UK state on someone in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. That’s true.*

      However, Scotland contributes more per person in tax than the UK average, and that extra amount more than covers the extra expenditure.

      So Scotland leaving the UK would lead to a net loss to the Westminster treasury. The article is based on a fallacy and displays remarkable ignorance on the part of Simon Heffer.

      *Scotland is far more sparsely populated than the rest of the UK, so many services do cost more to deliver per person – that’s a simple fact. However, the area of the UK which has far-and-away the most state expenditure per person is London.

      • rtj1211

        Mainly due to out-of-control housing benefit due to the property boom and the usual dedication to infrastructure spending in London.

    • fluffnik

      Except it doesn’t.

      The UK is just a pointless expense, with frankly embarrassing habits.

  • Chris Golightly

    Not entirely sure England “won the second world war” despite being denied Irish ports Heffalump. I think the Soviet Union, American troops and money and The English Channel had a lot to do with it. Scottish independence would be a tragedy for both countries.

    • Tahitiholiday

      Yes, but worse for them, the idiots.

    • AndrewMelville

      Not to mention Scots generals and soldiers.

  • Alex

    There is not a chance that Salmondella will take over Scotland. They are simply not that daft, stop the wishful thinking and lead Scotland to a prosperous and Conservative future.
    Stop being afraid, do not go “home tae think again”. Stop being bullied by The National Socialists, Labour and the Lib Demos. Stand up for all of Britain, fight for a Untied Kingdom, not only are we better together, we can be more successful together.

  • http://batman-news.com Whizjet

    First rate article.
    Please God for a “YES” vote.
    Sadly, they know where their bread is buttered, and the DevoMax option will result in the spectacle of more Scottish whingeing coupled with more English expenditure – thus achieving the remarkable outcome of pleasing no-one.

    • AndrewMelville

      What a vile Inglish bigot you are.

      • http://batman-news.com Whizjet

        What a way to look at one of your benefactors!
        Tsk tsk.

        • AndrewMelville

          Scotland has subsidized the Inglish spongers for far too long.

          I like the Inglish. Properly led by Scots officers, they can often reach the same levels as colonial troops. Trouble is I am never sure how much to tip them.

          • http://batman-news.com Whizjet

            Absolutely.
            Properly trained young Scotch officers managed by senior English Flag rank are a success. Scotch mercenaries have found employment all over the world. I imagine there’ll be more applications like that as the unemployment caused by Scotch Independence bites across the midge strewn highlands :-)

          • AndrewMelville

            Agreed so long as the flag ranks are only honorary appointments made to celebrate the Inglish public schoolboys’ fond memories of fagging, beatings and buggery by linking them up with their old chums. This leaves the real work of leadership, strategy and tactics to honest, Scots Presbyterian officers.

            Quite a wonderful system the old Empire had actually. Each nation was able to play its part to the fulfillment of its national character:

            Inglish: bugger each other senseless, wear silly uniforms and pretend to be in charge.

            Scots: run the government, civil service, military and create and manage the economy.

            Welsh: moan about the Inglish and stay home and dig coal whilst singing.

            Irish: die in great numbers and return their pay to the Treasury in the form of alcohol taxes (exception: the Ulstermen, honorary Scots, they fall under the same category above).

            Natives: die in great numbers, abuse their women, labour fitfully for their betters, create absurd home rule campaigns and cock the whole thing in short order when given it back.

          • http://batman-news.com Whizjet

            Hoots Mon, Dinna fash yeself, lol!!

          • BigCheddar

            Great stuff, I hate it when the unqualified randomly throw around the ‘bigot’ label. Nice one.

  • Pier66

    I want change discuss…
    and ask everybody here:
    What’s happen with the Enclosure Act of 1760?

    • The_greyhound

      it got ring-fenced.

      • Pier66

        Yes good boy..,born Private Property!

        —-Messaggio originale—-

        Da: notifications@disqus.net

        Data: 5-lug-2014 11.50

        A:

        Ogg: Re: New comment posted on Vote yes, Scots – and set the English free

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        –>

        Settings

        A new comment was posted on The Spectator

        The_greyhound

        it got ring-fenced.
        5:50 a.m., Saturday July 5

        Reply

        to The_greyhound

        The_greyhound’s comment is in reply to

        Pier66:

        I want change discuss…
        and ask everybody here:
        What’s happen with the Enclosure Act of 1760?
        Read more

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        • Wessex Man

          do try very very hard to get a sense of humour!

          • Pier66

            Do try very hard to be so kind everytime ?

            —-Messaggio originale—-

            Da: notifications@disqus.net

            Data: 6-lug-2014 15.12

            A:

            Ogg: Re: New comment posted on Vote yes, Scots – and set the English free

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            –>

            Settings

            A new comment was posted on The Spectator

            Wessex Man

            do try very very hard to get a sense of humour!
            9:12 a.m., Sunday July 6

            Reply

            to Wessex Man

            Wessex Man’s comment is in reply to

            Pier66:

            Yes good boy..,born Private Property!—-Messaggio originale—-Da: notifications@disqus.netDa ta: 5-lu
            g-2014 11.50A: Ogg: Re: New comment …
            Read more

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  • The_greyhound

    Not too sure why this article was even necessary.

    The SNP independence campaign is nothing more than a few vague farting noises, attracting only the SNP’s core support of about 10% to 12% of the electorate, mostly poorly educated and unintelligent, excited by salmond’s cynical promises of free money.

    There will be an unpleasant legacy of division and bitterness (the nationalists’ behaviour has been despicable throughout), and the SNP has certainly damaged the Scots nation’s standing abroad. The outcome of the referendum is certain (it always was) – the only question is who will lead the SNP to defeat in 2016. It’s a moot point whether swinney or sturgeon cuts the more ridiculous figure …..

  • balance_and_reason

    Whilst I think Mr Heffer has some good points, we must surely strain with every fibre to encourage our historic linkage to continue; we are too bound at hip, knee and shoulder to cause anything but utter chaos on a separation.

    Mr Salmond, a dirty little opportunist with undoubted political skills, is really after a rise in cross subsidy and not the full responsibility, as this would really expose the monkeys gonads.

    We need to emotionally demand a maintenance of the status quo but offer full tax raising powers, a la Isle of Man, which would demonstrate that the rest of the UK was not strimming Scotland and would create responsibility in fiscal area’s for Scotland…it would end the ridiculous socialist game of spending promises with no accountability which has destroyed Scotland’s entrepreneurial spirit and created a beggars mentality amongst so many of its people.

    Scotland needs to be rescued from itself, this once proud country is truly on the edge of a disaster.

    • Andrew Constantine

      I am sure that Scotland can make a good job of running their own nation and if they wish to do so and vote Yes in September, then we English should let them go. We do after all have plenty of work to do in re-building England.

  • oldwatcher

    What a lot of nonsense we are hearing on all sides about Scottish Independence.
    The bulk of Scottish and English people are accepting their lot in these harsh economic times and are used to the dominance of London which has become a foreign place. Full of multi-millionaires and legal and illegal immigrants. Our media has become multicultural but has forgotten there are some True British still around.
    So it is okay for lesbian kick boxers etc to get full church marriage rights and Saudi Arabia to pay for Mosques being built in the UK while we stand idly by.
    It wont matter what happens with the Vote on 18th September 2014 as we will soon be an Islamic state.
    We will see more blood on the streets than Enoch Powell ever dreamed of.

  • John Kenner

    While a majority’s opinion may tell us what some people desire on a particular occasion, it cannot tell us what those very same people would choose if they were more educated.

  • Ragdoll

    Complete horsefeathers with a touch of bitters.

  • Q46

    Since the legal entity which is party to the Treaties of Rome, Maastricht, Lisbon is the United Kingdom of GB and NI, and it is said that Scotland cannot be a member of the EU because it was not as a legal entity a signatory to those Treaties, where does that leave England and Co if Scotland votes for independence and the entity UK of GB and NI ceases to exist?

    • MrGrylls

      Both England and Co and Braveheartland will have to apply for membership of the E.U. (if they choose to) and shuffle into line behind Turkey and Serbia. Such glory!

      • Wessex Man

        England won’t be shuffling in line behind anyone, especially after this deal with the Urkraine!

      • DRF7

        Who wants Europe anyway? – except for the crazy Elite who prefer to cover up child abuse and rape. Tories anyone? The EU is only important to those types. Keep it all.

  • Terence Hale

    Hi,
    Things must change. Even a Scots nudist wears a kilt.

  • Fraziel

    Interesting considering the UK government spends more per head on London than it does in Scotland and London has 50% more people in it than Scotland. Does that mean the Scots subsidise Londoners? Northern Ireland also receives more per head than Scotland. Why are you not wanting rid of them Simon? I know why, you are an anti Scottish bigot and a troll. I have read several of your articles on the Scots and its blindingly obvious how you feel.

    As for it being an outrage that Scottish mp’s vote on English only matters, last i looked westminster is the parliament for the whole of the United Kingdom meaning mp’s have every right to vote on anything. I also find it amusing as thats exactly what tory mp’s did to Scotland from 1979-1997. You have a selective memory and a are a hypocrite. I wont fall for your trolling though , i am still voting NO.

  • Fraziel

    Funny reading all the comments below but for all the anti Scottish Englanders posting your vitriolic, bigoted nasty comments, you should bear something in mind.You are arguably the most hated nation in Europe and despised around the world. You are even more hated than the Germans and they started two world wars. You might want to ask yourselves why that is before you sound off about the Scots

    • Jacky Treehorn

      What you seem to forget is if we are the most hated that includes the scots.
      Do you think most other nations differentiate between England Wales and Scotland? You little scotchlanders need to get out more. If you vote yes they might start differentiating betwen us by ignoring you.
      Nothing nasty but I hope you vote yes purely to destroy the left down here and then laugh at you lot turning into a failed socialist republic.
      And believe it or not (I couldn’t care less) I’m a Scotchaphone or whatever the word is.

    • BigCheddar

      I’ve just read all the comments below and the, “anti Scottish Englanders posting your vitriolic, bigoted nasty comments” seem to have been deleted. Or perhaps it’s you and your hyperbole that is best described in this way.

      “The English are the most hated people in the world.” Oh really? I’ve heard that in the Ukraine, Nigeria, Syria et al we hardly getting a mention right now. We seemed pretty popular in the recent D Day celebrations. We may not be everyones favourites but in truth we don’t excite that many people outside of the Celts. And yet, I read a piece of research recently that discovered Celts aren’t born hating the English. They are trained and brainwashed to hate by their parents and society for some nasty things people once known as the English did to them a few centuries ago. Apparently, though, this is not bigotry and it’s all fine.

      There is a law of nature that works north of the border only which seems to be, “the louder, more extreme your language the more acceptable your hypocrisy”.

  • Bo Williams

    The fact that Mr Heffer can earn a living writing such garbage says a lot about the sinking standards of journalism in recent decades. He appears to know nothing of what he writes.

  • Benjamin Dover

    The failure to prove man-made global warming over the last 20 years makes the case for it even less plausible.

    • DRF7

      Ben Dover! Scotland will be the new Riveria soon – English will need to jump through hoops if we allow you to visit. Stick to the adult movies Benny Boy!

  • Al Bumen

    Even if some people attack liberty in the name of illusions such as “man-made global warming” and “fairness”, liberty remains desirable.

  • BigCheddar

    Mr. Heffer, this is the best piece I have read on this issue. Thank you

    • DRF7

      Best piece!? really? Opposed to what others?
      Mon the Scots!

      • BigCheddar

        Erm … compared to the others I’ve read, as in ‘… best piece I have read …’. Did you want a list?

  • DRF7

    Can’t wait to vote NO to England, Cameron, Yewtree, Savile and Friends, associated MP’s and selected Royalty. You can’t beat a good old cover up! Only this one is still trying be covered up so Cameron can protect his close family friends.
    You can keep Wales and Northern Ireland.
    Bit like being told you can lick the dog’s plate after he’s had his dinner.
    ROLL ON SEPT 18TH!!!!!

    • BigCheddar

      We wish you well and a fond farewell. Clearly you are a clever, erudite individual with a great deal of influence amongst your people and can convince enough of them to follow your lead. And what a clever ploy, pretending to be a complete nob in these comments as cover for your genius. You don’t fool me! Good Luck!

  • t764

    “Set England free”. It’s clear how much you care for the rest of your “great” kingdom. England should be set off from the “united” kingdom and all countries free!

  • Sublime

    Is it just me, or does it seem like Scotland is going to be the most wonderful and perfect not to mention Utopian place on Earth. If only… arg, if only it could free itself from the evil English – of course the Welsh and Northern Irish are stand up guys! The hatred from some Scots towards the English is scary.

  • Giuly

    Then why should they vote for No!?
    We all would be happier with Yes.

  • Charles Christensen

    This vote is nothing to do with setting England free some of the greatest and best people are english .

    It’s that lot at Westminster who are at fault for wasting monies
    On wars and looking after themselves forget about the rest of us the best thing that could happen is bring out a law banning middle and so could upper classes from parliament

  • Daniel Fletcher

    Please Scots vote Yes. I want to go abroad, but can’t afford it yet.

  • Daniel Fletcher

    The only down side to an Independent Scotland is that the Union Jack looks attractive, while the St. Georges flag looks as dull as ditch water.

  • Nick M

    Please, Scotland leave we don’t want you. You are so bitter about everything to do with the UK (yes, not just England).
    However, Cameron be strong. They can’t have our currency (go get your own or join the Euro), leave our armed forces (okay keep the Scots Guards) and share the oil by head count (not your mad belief it belongs to Scotland, we all invested in it. And, if you don’t like that get past our Navy… oh you don’t have one!).

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