Rod Liddle

It’s all kicking off in the Islamic world. Nothing at all to do with Islam, of course

Everywhere you look there is outrage and fury and screaming and violence

24 January 2015

9:00 AM

24 January 2015

9:00 AM

They have been burning churches and murdering Christians again in Niger. You’d think that they’d have more immediately pressing concerns than worrying about a cartoon, Niger regularly winning the award for being the worst country anywhere on God’s earth, and the poorest. But nope, it’s kill-a-kuffar time once more. Some 45 churches set alight and at least five people killed and 50 injured. Adherents of the Religion of Peace (© all UK politicians) included in their pyromania a Christian orphanage, which was thoughtful of them. There have also been massed rallies and protests and the usual effigy-burning business in the vast and dusty Islamic desert rat-holes next door, Mali and Algeria. Not to mention Senegal, and the fragrant delight which is Sudan, plus Niger’s red-hot rival for the worst-country-on-earth award, Mauritania.

Death to France! Death to infidels! Death to Christians! And that’s just Africa. There was more effigy and flag-burning plus the requisite homicidal screeching in good old Pakistan, and next door in Afghanistan, and of course in Iran. Even the Chechens got in on the act — a massed rally in the central square of Grozny with an estimated 800,000 people howling their loathing of France and cartoonists and the West in general, protests which spread over the border into another backwards enclave which the Soviet Union, to its immense credit, succeeded in briefly civilising, Ingushetia. Oh, and there was still more fury in the Philippines, the usual howling at the moon from the country’s Islamic minority whose political wing, the MNLF, was habituated to kidnapping and murder in the Sulu peninsula and Mindanao.

NIGER-FRANCE-ATTACKS-CHARLIE-HEBDO-DEMO
Smoke billows in a street as people demonstrate near the grand mosque in Niamey, Niger Photo: Getty

Everywhere you look in the Islamic world there is outrage and fury and screaming and violence. An anger not occasioned by the vicious executions of 11 people in Paris, but in response to the ‘Je suis Charlie’ stuff, and the magazine’s post-murder edition featuring Mohammed on its front page. The murders did not bother them at all and a substantial majority, by the look of things, will have wholly approved of them. It’s the cartoons which made them go on the rampage, killing people of a different faith.

So next time some jackass of a politician tells you that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were ‘nothing to do with Islam’, or some hand-wringing, PC, public-school broadcaster on the BBC puts it all down to ‘extremists’ — point them in the direction of the millions of people in the Islamic world who rather fervently disagree with that flip and patently delusional diagnosis. If all those people are ‘extremists’, then we need to redefine the word ‘extreme’ so it means something closer to, say, ‘mainstream’ or ‘moderate, consensual centre’. In this, our own vile and incendiary Islamic preachers, such as Anjem Choudary, are much closer to the truth than are our politicians: this is not ‘nothing to do with Islam’. It is all about Islam.

BAHRAIN-POLITICS-OPPOSITION-JUSTICE
A Bahraini protester takes cover during clashes with police following a demonstration against the arrest of Sheikh Ali Salman Photo: Getty

[Alt-Text]


If you doubt it, look around you. It is as the former leader of one of the world’s more moderate Islamic countries, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono of Indonesia, put it. It’s a clash of values, he said — and if the West wishes to sort it out, then the West should give in. I say moderate: under Yudhoyono, Indonesians have been imprisoned for the alleged crime of blasphemy, many for a term of five years. It’s that moderate vs extremist thing again — hard one to call, isn’t it?

So the Communities Secretary, Eric Pickles, deserves a bit of credit for his round-robin letter to our country’s mosques, which has succeeded in shoring up the familiar sense of acquired victimhood among British followers of Islam. Pickles suggested that British followers of Islam should ‘prove’ their identification with British values.

I suppose it’s a bit late in the day for that sort of thing — remember, 68 per cent of our Islamic community believe that blasphemers should be punished somehow — but better late than never. Forty years of being told that their cultural practices are every bit as valid as those of the Christian majority, however, has established a mindset which will take some shifting.

And so it has proved — self-appointed Muslim leaders have reacted with the usual mixture of petulance and confected outrage. The letter, they insist, is ‘patronising’. One spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain asked: why no similar letter to Christian church leaders demanding they disassociate themselves from the English Defence League? It is difficult to imagine a more lame or ridiculous riposte.

The EDL is habitually reviled by British politicians and church leaders alike — and reviled for nothing more than its thuggish opinions and rare, sparsely attended marches. The EDL has not murdered anyone, nor sent its thick-as-mince legions to fight for the Islamic State, nor blown people up in London, nor tried to decapitate British soldiers on the streets of Woolwich. Reprehensible (and, frankly, laughable) though the EDL may be, there is simply no comparison. And to make the comparison suggests strongly to me that the Muslim Council of Britain does not remotely get the point. But then we should remember the former leader of the Muslim Council of Britain, Iqbal Sacranie, once suggested that mere death was ‘perhaps too easy’ for Salman Rushdie. A little after he said that, we knighted him. And for a long while the MCB refused to attend the British holocaust memorial service.

We have indulged parts of our Muslim community in epic paranoia, victimhood, clamorous obsessions and pre-medieval cultural appurtenances for way too long. And so perhaps it is too late to venture, tentatively, that we got our approach all wrong.

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Show comments
  • bruce

    Sad to say but start locking your door at night rod….and that’s just from the British State and institutions.

  • Caps Lock

    Excellent article Rod. It should be required reading for our politicians!

    • gerontius redux

      No need. Our politicians already know.
      What our politicians know isn’t neccessarily what our politicians will say.

      • amac

        Then they should say it, collectively and loudly. No wonder the main two parties can barely scrape 60% of the vote between them.

        • Zanderz

          Absolutely. The first politician to stand up and say these things gets my vote. It’s likely to be Mr Farage, he’s 3/4 of the way there.

          The other issue is, once said, what policies can the government – so constrained by the ECHR – put in place to resolve it?

          Side note – the Mold ‘white power’ Tesco attacker appears to be a Muslim. How much of a Muslim is debateable, but he seems to have been inspired by Islam.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/uk-media-coverup-white-power-supermarket-attacker-is-muslim-wrote-the-wrath-of-allah-is-about-to-come-down-upon-the-kaffir

        • Noa

          “…Eric Pickles, deserves a bit of credit for his round-robin letter to our country’s mosques, which has succeeded in shoring up the familiar sense of acquired victimhood among British followers of Islam. Pickles suggested that British followers of Islam should ‘prove’ their identification with British values….”

          The most memorable comment on which letter was made by Austin Barry, who, unlike the loathsome Telemachus, is now disgracefully banned from these columns, he wrote:-

          “The letter is rather like writing to the Nazi Party asking it to curb the Hitler Youth.”

          • woohoo02

            We should make 2 Million Bacon sandwiches, any Muzzy not eating it gets deported, it should work for ‘Weird’ Ed Milliband as well, apparently 🙂

          • zz

            Eating bacon sandwiches are not going to hurt Muslims. Many Muslims do eat bacon anyways.

          • Akram

            Only 1% Muslims eat pork. We aren’t like Christians, we actually follow our belief. In Islam, pork is forbidden so we don’t eat it. I know loads and loads of Muslims and none have ever eaten pork and guess what pork is forbidden in the Bible but 98% Christians eat pork. So get your facts right zz. If you saw a couple of weird Muslims eat pork, it doesn’t mean everyone does it.

          • WrinklyOldGit

            AKRAM – you are living in a dream world – even in Saudi muslims eat pork and drink alcohol, smuggled in by fellow muslims and sold at ridiculous prices. Try crossing the Bahrain causeway – the customs officials search the cars of Saudis just as thoroughly as they search the cars of westerners – and they do find contraband – I have seen locals taken away in handcuffs from the causeway customs search area, whereas westerners are often allowed to bring in small quantity of pork if they do try to hide it.

          • Akram

            Well they aren’t really Muslims if they eat pork but it is their wish. Of course they find contraband but NOT IN EVERY CAR. It is rare!

          • sniperking12

            Really? Akram? You think that 99% of all Muslims (that’s 30% of the population) are pious enough to abstain from alcohol and pork because they happened to be born into a religion where they’re ‘pious’ enough not to? That’s rubbish. Humans are humans, no matter where you go. You’ll find plenty of Muslims (just as you’ll find many Jews that eat pork, and ‘vegetarians’ that will have a sneaky BLT when they’re not with their parents). It’s human nature to be decadent, and Muslims, as we can clearly see from this article, are no exception. If anything, they’re among the worst.

          • Akram

            They are not among the worst but out of the people I know, many crave bacon after seeing their friends. Most vegetarians are vegetarians of their own choice not because of their parents unless it is because of religious beliefs. Muslims aren’t an exception but most will be forbidden from it and will be kept away from it. And many will have the common sense not to because the more you can stay away from it, the more the reward (according to Islam). We are decadent. I am in other areas but I don’t look at others eating pork and wish I could, I just live my life and guess what I’m human too!! And I did probably exaggerate the figures BUT the amount who abstain from alcohol and mainly pork will ALWAYS and has ALWAYS been MORE than the people who are not self controlling enough to stop themselves.

          • jimmy

            Read the whole bible – its a progressive book- anyone can pick a verse here and there. Jesus told Peter nothing is unclean – in any case Allah who cannot lie nor his word be corrupted tells us in the Koran to read the ORIGINAL GOSPELS so I did that. And guess what – I discovered Jesus died for my sins on a cross – thanks for the tip off !

          • Akram

            Sarcastically I say: Your welcome!
            You can’t read the original gospels like you know it because they were corrupted too, however much you would like them not to be. And why would Jesus pbuh have to die for your sins. Testing Christianity logic: Why is every innocent human inflicted with the sins of Adam and Eve? It’s like you killing someone and all your descendants pay for it although they were going to be the best, law abiding citizens! Except, in no country, Christian, Muslim or Sikh or anything, do you have this sort of judicial system!

          • jimmy

            Well thank you for the response.
            Firstly it is ONLY YOU saying that old chestnut that its been corrupted….your book says otherwise as you know. Secondly, Thats just the way it is….whether we like it or not, you know yourself the GREATER Jihad or struggle is killing the enemy within – Jesus called it DENYING yourself but without the help of the Holy Spirit – its hard work, right? Who are we to challenge God. We are born with this sin nature and if you think its unfair, you will have to take it up with him. Thats we say you have to be BORN AGAIN. Not born of the flesh again (the sin nature) but born of the divine nature. Millions can attest to this experience. I am one of them. Although the UK is only Christian by name in most cases, some of us have crossed that line – and found God’s word – the bible to be true. Love and peace x

          • jimmy

            Well thank you for the response.
            Firstly it is ONLY YOU saying that old chestnut ‘its been corrupted’….your book says otherwise as you know. Secondly, in regards to sin – Thats just the way it is….whether we like it or not, you know yourself the GREATER Jihad or struggle is killing the enemy within (sin tendencies) – Jesus called it DENYING yourself but without the help of the Holy Spirit – its hard work, right? Who are we to challenge God. We are born with this sin nature and if you think its unfair, you will just have to take it up with him on judgement day. Thats why we (the bible) say’s you have to be BORN AGAIN. Not born of the flesh again (the sin nature) but born of the divine nature. (born from above, by the Spirit) Millions can attest to this experience the world over. I am one of them. Although the UK is only Christian by name in most cases, some of us have crossed that line – and found God’s word – the bible to be true. Love and peace x

          • WrinklyOldGit

            True, on the menu of the hotels in Indonesia – the largest muslim country – bacon and pork are to be found in abundance.

          • Akram

            You do find other people but Muslims there. There are people who eat pork there so they have to serve it, or would you like to feel deprived of their pork. It isn’t an Islamic State, just has a large Muslim population.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Do you propose that Britains Jews should also be required to eat bacon sandwiches in public ?

          • Lorna Tracey

            Shut up Yosef!

          • Ovida Yosef

            Mr Pickles has many Islamic colleagues within the Conservative party,he could have engaged with one of them to ensure his message,which in essence was correct,could not have been misconstrued,I do know that most of the Mosques in my area condemned unequivocaly the outrage in Paris during Friday prayers,and keep a close watch on radicalisation,rightly saying that radicalisation mostly occurs outside of the Mosques,largely from foriegn based internet sites

          • LetEnglandShake

            Really? How very remiss of us not to notice this ‘condemnation’. Surely it would have been splashed across the front pages as it would have been the first time Mosques criticised their followers.

            But perhaps it never happened or it might have been contradicting the ‘Nothing to do with Islam’ mission statement.

          • Ovida Yosef

            It would help if such news got equal coverage in the press instead of being relegated to a few lines on page 8 or the prominence of the ‘Nothing to do with Us’ statements of the Israeli’s when Palestinians kick back

          • http://elfnhappiness.blogspot.com/ eeore

            Aren’t you missing the point rather?

            Look at the media and see how many stories are laced with ‘anger’, ‘fury’, ‘outrage’ – hence while the attacks are condemned at Friday prayers, and many Muslims will see the letter as fair enough, and the links provided useful – the media is always going to look for conflict.

          • wordfromthewise

            You MOSLEMS are never wrong, are you? Your arrogance and sense of superiority is astonishing.

          • Noa

            I do not see why Mr Pickles need to refer his letter to muslims before its release for approval. He is, after all writing to fellow British citizens and does not need to the intercession of intermediaries.
            If you know the mosques which condemned the mass murders and so you will then know which mosques do promote radicalisation. What action do their attendees take to combat it? Do they inform the police of such criminal behaviour?
            As you also presume to ‘speak’ for the muslims in your area, wherever that is, perhaps you will kindly inform us why the muslim community, including its councillors, maintained their silence during the systemic rape of over 1200 white children in Rotherham by muslim men of Pakistani origin?

      • rodger the dodger

        Yes, imagine the private conversations over a brandy at Chequers, at 2am. Would like to be a fly on the wall for those…

    • Nune

      You mean the same politicians who preach democracy and human rights but flew to Saudi Arabia to show their respect and solidarity with the Kingdom’s medieval barbaric rulers?

      • zz

        True.

      • akeel ma

        it was the british who put them in power (Lawrence of arabia) idiot

        • Zenkick

          Yeah, and if you read D.H. Lawrence’s you would find out what he thought of islam was very revealing already in 1919

          • Ovida Yosef

            D H Lawrence was a novelist of dubious sexuality and a socialist to boot,or are you confusing him with T E Lawrence ?

          • Zenkick

            Yes i meant T.E. the arabian Lawrence

          • Ian G

            T E Lawrence was a novelist of dubious sexuality. He like boys, horses and women ( for heirs) in that order, just like his Arab friends.

          • Jody Taylor

            This is a disgusting comment. If this is the standard of discussion it’s not worth having here where the collective IQ is that of a “potted daisy” (as a commentator wrote in a Sydney newspaper yesterday).

          • Ian G

            The problem is that it is true.

        • Erique Lamont

          SMDH

          So, it’s the fault of the British, then? Not the abhorrent paedophile’s religion that started in and is 100% supported by Saudi Arabia?

          Sounds as empty as Mugabe’s excuse for destroying the ‘bread basket of Africa’, as Rhodesia it fed itself and much of Africa, change the name to ZImbabwe and in 20 years it can’t even feed itself…but Mugabe blames the British lol

          What are you suggesting, that Arabia should be British?

          • Ovida Yosef

            Before you spout off about ‘abhorrent peadophiles’ I suggest you get some evidence for it and post your references,then go to your Bible,and read Genesis chapter’s 16 and 20,where you will discover that the father of Judaism,Christianity and Islam one Abraham not only fathered a child at the age of 90 on an 11 year old slave girl,he was married to his half sister,contrary to Leviticus chapter 18 verse 11

          • LetEnglandShake

            So what? We’re Christians.

            This is 2015, btw.

          • Ovida Yosef

            And the last time you read the gospels or attended a church ?

          • wordfromthewise

            Today, actually, tho I am not of any religion.

          • Zenkick

            Ovida, Christ’s word is in the Gospels, not the Bible. The Koran and the Hadith narrate very well how Mohammed married a 6 year old and consummated when she was 9. Islam is full of references to sex slaves, killing non believers, beheading and so on. You don’t stand a chance in a comparison with Christianity, look how we live in the west, look how they live in islamic countries

          • Ovida Yosef

            Thats interesting,but you fail to provide references from either the Quran or the Haddiths.
            The Talmut permits a man to marry and consummate with a girl of 3 years and one day,in certain states of the USA the age of consent is 11,King Henry the Vll of England was born when his mother was 12
            Should one peruse religious works of all sects there will be something that ones own sect or cult deem abborhent

          • James

            Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64

            Narrated ‘Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

          • wordfromthewise

            Henry VIII was born on 28 June 1491, 600 years ago, and coincidentally that’s how far behind the rest of the world Stone Age islam is. You have a lot of catching up to do!

          • orlando098

            And… does Israel permit this today? Or do any Jews recommend it? If not then it’s not a problem now. But in countries like Yemen there are still child brides because Mohammed is taken as the perfect man. Around Shakespeare’s time, age 12 was deemed the youngest for women to marry, but many were much older. But we’ve moved on since then…

          • Carol

            But we have moved into the 21 century….Muslims have not

          • Ovida Yosef

            The religion of Islam is 700 years younger than Christianity,if you look at what we were like in the 13th century you would see a close resemblance,yet Christianity has sects that still live in the middle ages,some Ultra Ortodox Jewish sects are just as bad,enlightenment takes time,and is not always a good thing,many today who proffess Christianity are in fact atheist,and hold no beleifes at all and resent any kind of moral arbiter

          • wordfromthewise

            I can’t see any advantage in proselytizing or having ‘faith’ in any religion. All of them were man-made atHabbakuk a certain point in mankind’s devlopment and evolution. Thankfully, there won’t be any more Isaiahs or Habbakuks – or cruel savages like mohammed!

          • Jody Taylor

            Read Salman Rushdie’s “The Satanic Verses”.

          • WrinklyOldGit

            Ovida Yosef – The Prophet married a 6 years old girl. Even today there is no legal age of consent in Islam whereas the west has enacted laws to make it such an act an offence, its called paedophilia.

          • labambagia

            thAyatollah Khomeini:
            A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he
            should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and
            damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her
            life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives.
            The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
            From Khomeini’s book, “Tahrirolvasyleh”, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom,
            Iran, 1990

          • Ian G

            We d not know the age of Hagar. We do know that she gave birth without recorded difficulty – a little improbable for an 11 year old. Leviticus had not been written at that point so Abraham could not break its laws. Retrospective justice is not justice. You have libelled Abraham who is a prophet in all three religions. Only one of these three will exact a penalty.

          • wordfromthewise

            Abraham’s wife, Sarah, only gave Hagar, her hand maiden, to Abraham to get a son because she thought she was too old and didn’t believe God when he told her she would have a son of her own – which, of course she did.

          • Ian G

            Agreed.

          • wordfromthewise

            Shame that Abraham’s by-blow was the beginning of the arabs.You’ll also read in the Bible chapters you quote that ‘the world will always be against Ishmael’ and that the arabs were only given the promise of the flesh whereas Isaac was given the promise of the SPIRIT. Even you must realise that was a put-down from God.

          • orlando098

            It mentions her age, does it? Which verse is that? But yes, Christians, and even Jews, don’t try to take people like Abraham or Moses are their role models these days, fortunately.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Some Christians dont,but dont say that to a religious Jew,they regard them as prophets and historical realities

          • Erique Lamont

            I said: “abhorrent paedophile’s” not: “abhorrent peadophiles”, if you are going to reply to me, have the decency to quote me correctly, Abeed 🙂

            You make a HUGE assumption, it is not my Bible, I have no belief in ANY Abrahamic fairy-tale cult…you are all insane in believing something that there is no evidence for exists…all your comment has done has added yet another line of paedophilia to the so-called Prophet’s own.
            The world would be a much peaceful place with no religion, even your lie ‘the religion of peace’ is constantly at war with one another over who has the right of succession from your paedophile prophet…the Sunni and Shia {lmao sounds like a 60’s pop group lol} most parts of the world hate each other almost as much as they hate Jews and Hindus.

            Quote all the Bible you want, all it does is shows you have wasted a life reading fairy-tales instead of doing something useful with it…

            FACT:
            There is no God

            FACT:
            There is no Heaven

            FACT:
            There is no Hell

            FACT:
            We die, and get eaten by worms or cremated

            You believe in God?

            You believe Muhammad was the perfect man?

            I bet you also believe in tooth-fairies, unicorns, Bigfoot, a peaceful and humane ISIS and leprechauns…lol

        • Ovida Yosef

          Akeel,in the case of the Ibn Saud family it was our American cousins that put them in power

      • Akram

        I would think you are a barbaric person if you live in a country with human rights, yet you don’t want a person to get his final respects. Barbaric or not, I wouldn’t look down on people who are trying to pay tribute to you after your death. Why? Because that is a British value.

        • Nune

          People being beheaded in public also deserve respect and humane treatment…. can’t have double standards, we are all the same under the Sun!

          • Akram

            I agree. You should go to pay your final respects but the actual beheading is dependent on the judicial system of the country in question.

          • Nune

            My comment was more about the hypercriticism that is being demonstrated by the western governments which support a regime that has no respect for other humans.

          • Akram

            Yes, I understand. But they don’t actually agree with the inhumane acts if they are paying respects to the deceased. After all, it has gone from 0% respect to 1% respect during the rule of the now deceased ex-King of Saudi.

          • Nune

            they are not condemning it either! and I think we both know why…

          • Akram

            Yup!

          • Ovida Yosef

            There is a distinct lack of Critisism for the other ME state that is currently entering its 67th year of genocide,Israel

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Here we go. Genocide? Please!
            Or reaction to an action maybe?

          • Ovida Yosef

            Nune it is only just over 100 years since puplic executions in Britain,and we used to sell tickets for the best veiwing places,flogging was still used in Britain until the 1950’s,branding was only abandoned here in the 1860’s,in fact the most humane punishment of the 19th century was to ‘transport’ criminals to the colonies

          • Nune

            Ovida, That’s exactly my point, We are in the 21st century and these things should no longer be acceptable by anybody or anywhere in the world.

          • James

            Every response from you is nothing more than deflection.
            Islam is a religion that preaches violence against unbelievers, based on fabrications by a “prophet” who married a pre-pubescent girl, habitually robbed merchant caravans taking 20% of the booty for himself, had entire tribes massacred, ordered the assassinations of people who mocked him, and received a whole series of convenient “revelations” whenever he needed them to placate his grumbling followers.
            That’s if we even accept the traditional Islamic accounts, which are supported by neither the archaeological, nor the contemporary historic records of the time.
            Spurious attempts at “whataboutery” re other religions is no defence of Islam against its very real, very troubling shortcomings.

          • wordfromthewise

            Moslems always send the question right back at the questioner because they have no idea what they are talking about.

          • Ovida Yosef

            And the Father of Judaism,Christianity and Islam,Abraham,sired a child on an 11 year old slave girl,and was also married to his sister Genesis chapters 16 and 20,yes Islam has its shortcomings as does Christianity and Judaism,as Jesus said,”Let he who is without sin,cast the first stone”
            As for ‘convenient revalations’ Abraham and Moses started that trend

          • James

            Muhammed is described in the koran as ‘a beautiful pattern of conduct.’

            Would you say then that marrying a 6 year old and consummating the marriage when she is 9 is morally okay?

          • Ovida Yosef

            James,could you provide a source and reference for your statement ?
            Genesis chapter 16 tells us that the father of Judaism,Christianity and Islam fathered his first child on an 11 year old slave girl,who would have had no choice in the matter,and chapter 20 tells us he was married to and had a child by his sister,contrary to Leviticus chapter 18.
            This said,in the so called ‘dark ages’ the customs of marriage and consummation cannot be udged against modern western values,I believe the age of consent in some US states is still 11 years,an there are countries in the world today where a younger age is permitted,so by todays standards in the UK where I live,it would not be acceptable,given the morays of the period,it would not have been unusual,also the talmud tells us a girl of 3 years and one day is of marriagable age.

          • James

            Koran 33:21
            “Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.”

            Now I’m afraid you can’t fall back on the ‘way it was at the time’ excuse for Muhammed.

            Muslims believe the Koran to be an eternal book, it’s message eternal. If it was okay for Muhammed to marry a 6 year old and consummate the marriage when she was 9, then it must be okay in all times and places.

            So I’ll ask again, is it morally acceptable to marry a 6 year old and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old?

          • peter

            As you well know,whatever actions Mohammed took during his lifetime in 7th century Arabia is relevant for all time, this includes having sexual relations with a child of nine, and so it remains irrelevant to what happens in other parts of the world, where laws can be changed for the betterment of society. No such laws exist within Islam, as Sharia is stuck within a 7th century framework, unable to progress, forever reflecting the culture, ethics and religion of this time
            As man has progressed he has become more knowledgeable and now understands that sex with children is highly damaging to a child’s physical and mental wellbeing as well as to society as a whole.
            You must ask yourself this question, why did Allah not let Mohammed know of the dire consequences of his sexual union with a nine year old child if he wanted him to become a role model for Muslims for all time and places?

          • Ovida Yosef

            Or indeed why did G-d,or Allah,as it is the same god,not give the same enlightenment to Abraham ?,just as Sharia lags behind modern times so does the Talmud,from where much of Sharia is derived,only in secular states has ‘law’ moved with the times,and I ask you the question that I put to James,and many other posters of this allegation against Mohammed,what are the sources ? references please,book,chapter and verse.
            No one making this allegation has ever come back with them

          • peter

            The god of the Quran is the god most familiar to Mohammed, whose name was Allah, it was not the Bible God whose name is given in letters YHWH, generally known as Yahweh,whose teachings diametrically oppose the teachings of the Islamic Allah. The word Allah does not translate to the word God in Arabic, the word for God in
            Arabic is Ilah, but this is not the word used in the Quran, when it should be if it were to denote the name for God. Allah is a contraction of the two words Al Ilah meaning “the god “and the god most familiar to Mohammed was Hubal the “greatest” (moon) god held on top the Kaaba.

            Although Abraham was lead to believe in one God, this God was YHWH the God of the Bible,,whose laws given to
            Moses as the Ten Commandments do not correspond to Allah’s laws, but diametrically oppose them.

            The sources giving evidence of Mohammed’s “marriage” to Aisha are the hadiths, shown in various Al Bukhari,Al Muslim and Abu Dawud
            Eg.Sahih Muslim 8.3310, 2.3432,
            2.3371
            Eg
            Sunan Abu Dawud Book 41. 4915 & 4916
            Examples
            from Bukhari:

            SahihAl Bukhari 7.62.88
            Narrated ‘Ursa:

            The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death

            Sahih Al Bukhari 8.73.151
            Narrated
            ‘Aisha:

            I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl,not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

            Sahih Al Bukhari
            Volumn 005, Book 058, Hadith Number 234.

            Narated By ‘Aisha : The Prophet engaged me when I was a girlof six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became All-right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then sheentrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly
            Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him,and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

            Would you say that it is morally acceptable for a fifty four year old man to be sexually attracted to a child?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            So inaction by everyone is the answer is it? Does that mean we should let your brothers get away with it.
            Personally, I would rather react now to the evil and be judged by God for my actions.

          • wordfromthewise

            Yes, but we have PROGRESSED where islam has stagnated in 632AD.

          • Ovida Yosef

            As I said,Islam is 700 years behind ‘us’ in developement,and is currenly behaving just the same as the Christians did 700 years ago,and those ‘freedoms’ you so value have mostly come in the 20th century as Christianity is in steep decline,Churches are closing for lack of congregations,few of our children are now baptised,marriage is mostly a civil ceremony,and few of us pass through a church on our way to burial,morals in the west are in steep decline,women are objectivised and children sexualsed to sell product,pornography is all over the place cheap and easily availlable,bigotry is commonplace,racism is on the rise,yep we have come a long way in 2000 years,1% of the worlds population owns 48% of its wealth,people die of exposure in our capital cities,in the 70 years since WW2 the USA and Britain have spent 36 of them at war with other nations,in Iraq alone taking both wars into consideration we caused the deaths of 600,000 Iraqi’s per year.we have made real progress

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Suggesting that Islam has superior morals?

            Your argument that Islam is pubescent in its development as an excuse is laughable. It is wilful behaviour that will not change unless large parts of the quran and hadith are rejected and reinterpreted in an islamic enlightenment.

            However, I’ll wager any enlightenment will result in a more fundamentalist version of what we have today.

          • Peace

            also those killed in mass murdering by air strikes and drones in daylight in the poor areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq deserve respect and treatment like human. Those who are held in captivity without trials deserve better treatment like human. The writer forgot the fact that, in Niger the UN admitted to ethnic cleansing of Muslims by Christians. We never those this writer crying or telling about that atrocities. This double standards and degrading language like the one used in this article which harm us as British more than anything else. We are no longer wining people hearts and minds. We are isolating ourselves by constantly offending others and creating controversies and unhealthy atmosphere. Thank you to the stupidity with which we write our articles.

          • Derek Lambada

            Niger is 99% Muslims? 0.4% Christian. When did this ethnic cleansing take place? Must be the least successful ever.

  • little islander

    Mr Allan Massie in this week’s Letters quoted Kipling, ‘where there’s Islam, there’s an intelligble civilisation.’ Was it then? Doesn’t look so now.

  • sebastian2

    An excellent account Rod. There’s one small word I take issue with though: “tentatively”. It’s time we stopped being tentative. I don’t feel tentative. Most I know don’t feel tentative. Actually, I and they feel the opposite. We’re about as untentative as we can be. It’s time to rub noses hard into the realities of mohammedans’ questionable faith. There’s nothing “moderate” about islam – study its texts Teresa. Reflect on its early expansion. Look at what mohammedans do now. Think about what they want to do. It’s a brutal, triumphalist totalitarian cult that disfigures all who get close to it.

    Thanks for reminding people.

    • Paul Austin Murphy

      Talking about “moderate Muslims”, the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) says that it does “take issue with the implication that extremism takes place at mosques, and that Muslims have not done enough to challenge the terrorism that took place in our name”.

      Well, it’s a firmly established fact that extremist words and actions have taken place at many mosques in the UK. Such facts and investigations
      have appeared (though they haven’t used Rod Liddell’s colourful
      language) in the Times, the Independent, the Telegraph, the Daily Mail,
      the Daily Express, the Mirror, BBC 1, Channel 4, ITV, Radio 4, etc. So the MCB must know that this is the case. Sure, it has never been demonstrated that every single mosque in the UK is a home of extremism because that probably couldn’t be demonstrated even in principle. (It probably isn’t the case either.)

      One, not every mosque is under scrutiny. Two, the definition of “extremism” will of course be contested – by the MCB (amongst others) – in any case.

      The other point is that it’s conclusively the case that Muslims – on the
      whole – have “not done enough to challenge” terrorism and Islamic
      extremism. This too has received coverage all over the place. And
      this must also be known to the MCB itself. But, as with the extremism
      in mosques case, it will be hard to demonstrate that the majority of
      Muslims haven’t done enough.

      • John Croston

        “Sure, it has never been demonstrated that every single mosque in the UK is a home of extremism because that probably couldn’t be demonstrated even in principle. (It probably isn’t the case either.)”

        Every single mosque in the world is well stocked with extremist literature. They all have copies of the Koran and Hadith, for example. These hate-filled books, unfortunately, are where all the problems stem from.

        • Paul Austin Murphy

          “Every single mosque in the world is well stocked with extremist literature. They all have copies of the Koran and Hadith, for example. These hate-filled books, unfortunately, are where all the problems stem from.”

          That’s sort of what I meant. Nothing ever counts – to the “moderates” – as extremism. And, yes, in a certain sense, the Koran is all you need.

          Basically, the only thing that would count as extremism would be explicit calls to violence and to terrorism. And even that would be disputed by the MCB, Leftist “human rights” lawyers, academics, etc.

          The thing is, very few mosques are being surveyed – despite what the Guardian, MCB, New Statesman, etc. are saying. And all investigators would need to have brown skin and know about Islam – and, by definition, such investigators would be hard to come by – especially for all the UK’s mosques.

          • sebastian2

            You and John Croston are both correct. It’s all there in black and white. It can’t be challenged or amended. It can’t be reinterpreted out of existence or into something it isn’t. It can only be ditched, binned, rejected, utterly discredited and exposed for the fallacy it is. If mohammedans want to live in private peace on the strength of a much diluted version of their cult, that’s fine by me. Just bloody well leave the rest of us alone. If not, you will deserve everything that might come back at you.

          • RobertC

            “If mohammedans want to live in private peace on the strength of a much diluted version of their cult, that’s fine by me.”

            But not by sharia law, that is the problem.

          • sebastian2

            You have a point. It certainly is.

          • RobertC

            “… explicit calls to violence …”

            K 8:12 “I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.”

            K 8: 55 “Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.”

            K 9: 5 So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush …

            K 9:123 Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.

            etc etc

          • Paul Austin Murphy

            I agree.

            I was talking about what the authorities would need: explicit calls to violence OUTSIDE the Koran and hadith. And, even then, the Muslims concerned would be defended by Leftist lawyers, the Guardian, etc. After all, Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada were as explicit as you can get; yet Gareth Peirce (the female Trotskyist “super-lawyer”) managed to free them…. at least at one point.

          • Eurocentric

            Usually, any attempt to quote directly from the Koran is rejected by moderators of the chicken media. Can’t have the truth out in the open, can we now?

          • John Croston

            True. They removed my reference to the barbaric Sura 5:33 immediately.

          • Jody Taylor

            “Neville Chamberlain syndrome”.

  • http://batman-news.com Matthew Roberts

    Bit of a hack job Rod, but I’m glad you said it. Too few public people are. Still, I sense we’re edging towards a tipping point where society is collectively forced to confront the problems at the heart of Islam and, for that matter, all religions. Keep up the moderately good work.

    • Grace Ironwood

      “The same problems at the heart of all religions.” ? Really ?

      Tired dhimmi nonsense. Wake up my friend.

  • Tox66

    Fantastic. Keep at it and maybe the politicos will start to see the light.

  • edithgrove

    Quite right. Thank you.

  • JoBennets

    A good article but why the need to denigrate and be abusive about the only group of people brave enough to take on the scourge of muslim ‘extremist’ in this country, the EDL? The EDL first started protesting 5 years ago about the very same things that commentators like you are only now daring to write about, credit where it’s due.

    • John Croston

      As I just commented on another thread – the “far right” have been proved consistently right on immigration and Islam for decades. These days it’s “Told you so” after “Told you so” as the chickens come home to roost.

      • mandelson

        The process is always the same – “its good” becomes “where’s the harm” and finally “how could we have known”. I think libtards are starting to get phase three.

    • Richard

      And the EDL are the only group out there protesting about Muslim rape gangs.

      • wordfromthewise

        Britain First is confronting them, too.

  • Dr_Spence

    Absolutely spot on. Some politicians will agree with you but are too cowardly to go public.

  • Dave

    Congratulations on an excellent article Rod. Bullseye!

  • Blindsideflanker

    Brilliant last paragraph.

  • pyewacket

    Excellent Rod. Bloody depressing but true. Worst of all I don’t know what anyone of decent mind can do about it.

    • William Haworth

      We can look at the benefits system. If the fugue that 50% of Muslim men in Britain are on benefits is correct, then we need to use that to generate some physical mobility. for example, anyone who’s been on out-of-work benefits for more than one year is now on 3 months notice, get a job or lose the money (3 months is better than most people in work get). We know there is lots of work around; if people want it, they may have to move out of the ghetto and start mixing with the general population.

      • greggf

        Yes William, the benefits system is a good place to start, but completely denying benefits as you suggest will never get past our courts and appeals system.
        It’s the comprehensive and bounteous generosity of the benefits system that is the problem, and cutting this presents a better way of applying pressure.
        Cap total take out, no claims allowed for under 25s, eliminate passported allowances, deduct NI contributions, limit child allowance to, say, 2, reinstate primary purpose for foreign brides/grooms, require a dress code for job interviews, etc. All of which could be introduced quickly and effectively.

        • Ngaire Lowndes

          You’ve been reading the UKIP policies leaflet, haven’t you.

          • greggf

            Not at all Ngaire. Any taxpayer who can count should support such details.
            Because, apart from the general freeloading problem, the longterm goal of muslims is to exploit the welfare systems of the West to the full – especially in Britain where the link between NI contributions and benefits is very tenuous if at all – they believe it’s their God-given right !

          • Nigel

            you mean Allah given right

          • greggf

            That’s what they think, yes Nigel!

          • kristof

            Seems to me that Sharia Law might apply rather like the Danelaw in the middle ages. What say we cordon off Warwickshire and allow sharia law there only. They can have their own welfare system , the lot. Total home rule. English law and taxes to apply elsewhere. It worked in India in 1948.

          • robert

            Grow up

        • Erique Lamont

          I think as the Tories are essentially removing JSA etc, that workers should be paying lower NI and taxation, because they will not be entitled to the benefits they are paying for. Then they can use that money to take out insurance for unemployment and illness, like I do 🙂

        • Ovida Yosef

          There is some credibility in the allegation of benifits fraud,and foriegn brides are of serious concern as many are closely related to their grooms,but on finacial grounds it makes more sense to insist that all immigrants learn English as translation services cost more than the benifits claimed

          • greggf

            Benefit fraud is small Ovi, the system is simply far too comprehensive, and generous!
            Certainly cutting out free translations would be on my list, among the etc…

          • Ovida Yosef

            Yep,benifit fraud is small,yet it gets a lot of political attention,more is paid out for tax credits to subsidise employers who under pay their workers that to the unemployed,and more is spent on universal translation services,better spent on teaching English in my view,and no citizenship or benifits for those who refuse to learn,or do not want their wives to learn English

          • FergusReturns

            “better spent on teaching English in my view”

            Bollocks. Why should we have to pay? Immigrants should learn English before they arrive, and the initial interviews should be conducted in English. If they don’t understand, back they go.

          • Brin Jenkins

            We just don’t need more people here. STOP IMMIGRATION and that would be a small start.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            What about English Speaking White refugees? Surely you will open your heart to them?

          • Ovida Yosef

            While there will aways be a place for those who are fleeing danger,whatever their language,a priority must be to ensure that thiose who are already here,are gainfully employed,it is not good enough to say that we have a ‘skills shortage’and must import skilled workers,we have over a million people in this country who are generationaly unemployed,we must find employement for them.
            We must ensure that British students are doing courses that will fill the needs of our industry and commerce,we must ensure that call centers are in Britain,not Dehli or Cairo,our job centers should be empty,not full of angry frustrated claiments,we should not rely on zero hours contracts and low wages.
            Those rich investors who claim to be British should risk their money on real manufacturing jobs in Britain,not ghost investments in New York,so called British companies like Dyson should bring their manufacturing back to Britain,we must stop foriegn companies from buying British companies and asset stripping them and moving production to south east asia,this helps no one other than ‘investors’,it deprives us of employment and laeves south east asian countries with industrial pollution and skills that will be of no use to them if the western economies go bust

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            The Western Economies have already gone bust.

          • Neil Saunders

            How can you open your heart to people who don’t exist?

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            You never heard of a continent called Africa?

          • Neil Saunders

            I see your point, Avi. You mean people like the White Rhodesians, presumably. Of course they should be admitted to Britain; they’re our kith and kin. Not a popular idea among Guardian readers, though.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Guardian readers are routinely ignored by their own children. I say we follow suite.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            The cost of learning English should be borne by the immigrant not the taxpayers.
            You want to come here, make the frickin effort.

          • Noa

            It makes extremely good sense to treat such behaviour as the criminal acts they are, prosecute all events to the full extent of the law and where practised by illegal migrants or dual passport holders, revoke their UK citizenship and deport them.

          • global city

            for those who want Sharia and who are caught doing crime then I’d cut their hands off first!

          • Sidionian

            Islam is basically Christianity about 600 years ago. It makes sense, because this useless religion was apparently ‘revealed’ about 600 years after Christianity. These peasants have had 600 years less to develop themselves than the West. Islam still hasn’t experienced its Francis Bacon, its Galileo, its Newton. They have experienced no cultural- and scientific revolution to speak of. There have been no great Islamic reformers, who preached tolerance and acceptance of a fellow brother as with Christianity, for instance. Instead, what you get is a few ‘damage control’ monkeys they put on television who are there to ‘assure’ the masses that Islam is about peace.
            Nonsense. If it were about peace, then this peace would be openly preached, written about and enforced by its policy makers. That is what a religious reformation is all about. Otherwise, garbage in, garbage out.

            The solution to this is surprisingly simple. Mass deportations as well as sealing off these countries to basically kill themselves off. The West should leave these countries alone and stop trying to impose their values on them. Leave them be, but also ensure our own borders are protected. It might seem politically incorrect on the surface, but I’d rather be politically incorrect, than watch a mushroom cloud destroy an entire city and its surrounding areas. Leave them be, and maybe they’ll leave us alone too. And if they still insist on spreading their filth to our nations, you just seal them off in theirs and just make sure nothing gets in/out. Simple, but of course, politically incorrect.

            So Plan B: let’s tolerate more of this for another 600 years until the Islamic world experiences its own enlightenment.

          • RobertC

            “Islam is basically Christianity about 600 years ago.”

            Which poly awarded you your Comparative Religion degree?

          • Benbecula

            Too true, that was an offensive remark. Jesus didn’t behead anyone nor have 500 jews beheaded as they did in the Battle of Trench.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Correct. In fact, last time anyone tried to kill G-ds Chosen, 50 million gentiles died.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Heretics and blasphemers were burned at the stake in the middle ages.

            Sodomites were first tortured, then hung.

            Nowadays, xtians are all PC cowards who pee their pants rather than stick up for their religion. They are awfully embarrassed by it, in fact.

          • Hon

            People are too comfortable in their work a day lives. As long as it is just a story on the news, it does not really matter.
            But, one day, very soon, Islamic terror will touch all of our lives in a very profound and dark way. It may be Iran or some lone wolf nut job, but it will happen. It is the teaching of the Imam’s. I dare anyone to attend any mosque and see what is spoken there.

          • LoveMeIamALiberal

            “Islam is basically Christianity about 600 years ago”.
            Er, no it isn’t. The founder of Christianity distinguished between the spiritual and temporal spheres (“My kingdom is not of this world”), never called on his followers to kill unbelievers and rejected spreading his message by violence.
            The problem with Christians is that many have failed to follow their founder’s principles. The problem with Muslims is that many of them do follow their founder’s principles.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            The problem with Socialism, is that it has never been done right.

            Etc.

          • Rocksy

            The problem with Socialism is that it has never been done in.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            The Oligarchs of the world would hardly let Lumpen-proletariat such as yourself destroy their system of Global Governance.

          • Hon

            Socialism has never been done right? It cannot be done right, it is a failed ideology.
            The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

          • tamimisledus

            Excellent comment. Bang on target.

          • Rocksy

            Absolutely correct.

          • Sidionian

            You’re mistaking Christ’s message with Christ the religion. Difference. Big difference. All the bloody wars/torture/murder/executions/persecutions attest to Christianity’s historic contribution to barbarism. Islam is just following by example and has a ways to go until it catches up to Christianity. History proves you wrong.

          • LoveMeIamALiberal

            I drew a clear distinction between what Jesus Christ said and how some of his followers have behaved. Your comment proves you cannot read properly.

          • litesp33d

            “Islam still hasn’t experienced its Francis Bacon, its Galileo, its Newton”.

            On the contrary many such people have come along to try to raise awareness of the aggressive nature of Islam which runs alongside its good side. However anyone who tries reform will get executed by some sunni or shiite who believes if they do not protect Islam and the prophet, on the day of judgement they and all their family will be cast into hell for eternity. However if they do vengance they and all their family get an automatic get into paradise free card.

            There are people on Earth who would kill another human for $50 let alone free guaranteed transport to paradise.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            A little too late, don’t you think?

            They certainly do.

          • litesp33d

            As the percentage of the UK that is islamic is doubling every 10 years how long will it be before it is too late as long as we keep educating children in religious schools (and I include all religious schools).

          • Marvin

            There are Moslem men with 3/4 wives on benefits in Britain, they apparently under Sharia Law say I divorce you 3 times and then go back home to marry again.

          • adrian smith

            Well they could start with you as your name is definitely not British and you can’t spell foreign, benefits or financial properly. Evening classes in English are available under most local authourities.

          • Ovida Yosef

            I hope your typing skills are as good as mine when you are over 70 and recovering from a stroke

          • kittydeer

            Hopefully he might have grown a brain by then and some manners.

          • Brimstone52

            “Manners” are what has created this mess.

          • Airey Belvoir

            Whoops Adrian, you cannot spell ‘authorities’. Rule one of criticising spelling is not to cock it up yourself!

          • adrian smith

            Quite true my friend, but I spelled one word wrong once, Ovida spelled three words incorrectly, and benefits was spelled exactly the same way by her twice, ( benifits ) so I do not really believe her excuse, I am almost as old as her myself and even though I have not suffered a stroke I am aware that it caused physical impairment, not mental ones.

          • Noa

            In this case I do suspect severe mental impairment, a loony anti semite leftie making excuses, peddling a pro-muslim line and spewing anti Israeli bile.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            The only thing worse than a Leftie anti Semite is a Righty anti Semite.

            Those people use Gas Chambers.

          • Noa

            Have you not yet realised they’re one and the same? What’s the difference between a bullet in the back of the head from a Tokarov and one from a Luger?

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Only one group systematically exterminated 6 million Jews.

            The other group offered them protection. This is because there are many Jews in left wing movements. Marx, Trotsky and Lenin were Jewish. 6 of the 7 leaders of the first Communist Party in Russia were Jewish, for example.

            Here’s what Stalin (who had many Jewish mistresses, so loved the Jews in a carnal sense) had to say about Anti Semitism.

            “National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

            Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

            In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.”

            Forget what you heard about Stalin, Comrade. He was a real Mensch.

          • Dogsnob

            Your ‘awareness’ is lacking. Strokes can seriously impair mental faculty.

          • Xaider

            Tut tut, Adrian. You know very well that Jewish foreigners are to be held to different standards than those nasty Muslim ones.

          • adrian smith

            I know nothing of the sort, what I do know is that I am not and never will be racist, but I am unashamedly culturist, and if another culture has habits and standards which I personally find offensive I will say so no matter who does not approve.

          • Ovida Yosef

            So you would not approve of a uniformed religious police force patrolling the streets of London in cars that closely resemble police cars ? if not google Shomrim

          • adrian smith

            From what I have read, these are just a sort of glorified neighbourhood watch, not exactly religious police, they simple try to prevent trouble, they don’t try to force their own opinions down anyone’s neck. I have never really found anything in Jewish culture to object to on a personal basis, although I certainly do not support Israel and their land grabbing militarism. Islam, however, that is another story!

          • Dogsnob

            Tell that story, do.

          • Ivan Ewan

            Islam’s horrible, but what’s REALLY bad is when Israel takes positive measures to prevent Islamic neighbours from anihilating it, amirite?

          • adrian smith

            I have no objection to Israel defending itself, what I find appalling is their habit of capturing more and more territory and immediately expelling Palestinians who have lived there for centuries and building settlements for Jewish families, in total disregard for UN and USA disapproval and general world outrage. Just how big do they want Israel to become? How long before Gaza becomes part of Israel? Defense is one thing, illegal empire building is quite another.

          • Ivan Ewan

            Yeah, buying land and building houses is horrible. They should be like those nice Hamas people who only fire rockets, dig attack tunnels and torture their own people whenever they get slightly out of line.

            Gaza belongs to Israel. It’s just a question of when they’re going to get it back. The Egyptians certainly don’t want it, and they have the only other legitimate claim to it.

            The only land they ever had that they had no historical claim to was the Sinai peninsula – which they won through a defensive war against Egypt. And they gave it back to Egypt in return for a continuing peace treaty.

            You might also want to check into that “lived there for centuries” thing. Most of Palestine was uninhabited before the Jews came in and started making the land both habitable and profitable.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            It’s the darkies I don’t like. I can speak frankly, can’t I?

            Charlie Hebdo and whatnot.

          • litesp33d

            “It’s the darkies I don’t like. I can speak frankly, can’t I?”
            Hopefully that is joke for anyone who doesn’t like someone just because of the amount of melanin in their skin is a bigot

            View people by what they say AND their actions.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            You can take the Son of Ham out of Africa, but you cannot take the Curse of Noah out of the Son of Ham.

          • Ivan Ewan

            You can speak franky, I can’t guarantee anyone will take you seriously.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Yes, it appears this “Freedom of Speech” is a charade.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Bomb bomb bomb Iran!

          • Ovida Yosef

            Adrian,I hope that you are not unfortunate enough to encouter these thugs dressed as fake policemen driving cars indistinguisable from real police cars,as I did a few months ago in London

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            G-ds Chosen are only ever polite and kind. You sir, are correct.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Honor killings origins are to be found in the Jewish Torah, the document from which the Muslims created their religion.

            We religious Zionists have every intention of having these laws returned to Eretz Israel. Every intention. Is it not written in the Holy Torah?

            Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

            “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)

            Deuteronomy 22

            13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

            20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

            But please, don’t let me ruin your fantasy with mere fact.

          • adrian smith

            Yes, but the Jews do not do this today because long ago they joined the more civilised members of the world population, whereas certain sects of Islam still happily kill any wife or daughter who dares to be even slightly free thinking, why did you not include these simple truths in your list of facts, and if I wanted a lesson on scripture from an arrogant self appointed prick end I would ask for one thanks.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            We Zionists will do it when we are able to. All laws shall we obey (Deuteronomy 30:1-3). Already Orthodox Jew Naftali Bennett threatens the leadership of Atheist Apostate Bibi Netenyahu.

            We “Religious Extremists” appreciate your help in setting up our state, of course. We are nothing if not gracious.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            The Shomrim are there to PREVENT crime and anti -social activity . The ” sharia ” patrols endeavour to ENFORCE islamic laws , rules and values . This is not acceptable when they try to prevent people drinking alcohol or dressing as they please LEGALLY in London or any non muslim country.

          • Ovida Yosef

            The so called Sharia Patrols operated for only a couple of weeks last year,then were stopped by the police,Shomrim[rumoured to be armed] have uniformed men driving around our capital city in BMW lookalike ‘police’ cars,and will stop and question,in a menacing manner any body they deem to be ‘undesirable for their area’ I for one will take a damn good look at any ‘police’ car attempting to stop me next time I am in London,I am not the only one to have been told by these thugs that ‘this is a Jewish area’,there is a perfectly good civil police presence

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Firstly I would actually agree with you about the patrol cars and I am surprised that the police allow this . However I stand by my point that the Shomrim ARE a neighbourhood watch organisation and they do NOT accost people for the way they dress or for drinking alcohol. The sharia patrols IF they were not stopped – and they have already sprung up in Germany and Belgium – would have very quickly expanded their scope of activities and you would have a situation akin to the Muttawaeen in Saudi Arabia and similar groups in Iran , Afghanistan , Aceh , Egypt and other places. Whatever muslims think or believe sharia law does NOT apply in UK.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            The sharia patrols IF they were not stopped – and they have already sprung up in Germany and Belgium – would have very quickly expanded their scope of activities and you would have a situation akin to the Muttawaeen in Saudi Arabia and similar groups in Iran , Afghanistan , Aceh , Egypt and other places and that should be a cause of GREAT concern to any female muslim . If you think this would not happen then you are very naive. Whatever muslims think or believe sharia law does NOT apply in UK. I would actually agree with you about the patrol cars and I am surprised that the police allow this . I stand by my point that the Shomrim ARE a neighbourhood watch organisation and they do NOT accost people for the way they dress , holding hands or for drinking alcohol.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            The Muslims wish to enslave your daughters.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Sodomites, adulterers, blasphemers, pork eaters, apostates and fornicators are despised by both the Shomrim and the Esteemed Islamic Mujaheddin.

            Esau and Jacob, Ishmael and Isaac, are brothers.

            Sharia law is taken from Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Exodus and Numbers.

            Why are these people so ignorant regarding the Semites, Ovida?

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Why are YOU so ignorant of the absolute hatred that islam holds for Jews , Israel ,and Zionism ?. Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem which muslims are not only desecrating archeologically but are physically preventing Jews praying there ?. Why is this Al Aqsa mosque regarded as the second most holy site in islam when Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran ? If you wish to align yourself ideologically with these savages then Judaism is doomed.If you think that having a common revulsion is a guarantee of safety then you are grossly naive and foolish.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I find it odd YOU so ignorant of the absolute hatred that islam holds for Jews , Israel ,and Zionism ?. Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem which muslims are not only desecrating archeologically but are physically preventing Jews praying there ?. Why is this Al Aqsa mosque regarded as the second most holy site in islam when Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran ? If you wish to align yourself ideologically with these inbreds then Judaism is doomed.If you think that having a common revulsion is a guarantee of safety then you are grossly naive and foolish.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I find it odd that YOU can overlook the absolute hatred that islam holds for Jews , Israel ,and Zionism ?. Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem which muslims are not only desecrating archeologically but are physically preventing Jews praying there ?. Why is this Al Aqsa mosque regarded as the second most holy site in islam when Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran ? If you wish to align yourself ideologically with these muslims then Judaism is doomed.If you think that having a common revulsion is a guarantee of safety then you are grossly naive and foolish

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            Well Avi Ben Gurion, I take it that you are a Jew, a Religion next to my heart only after my own, Christianity.
            However I humbly submit that Judaism became Obsolete / Incomplete from the exact instant of the Death on the Cross of Our Beloved & Blessed Lord & Saviour JESUS CHRIST, & that the one & only singular purpose of Yahweh / Elohim in maintaining Judaism & Israel is because of His Covenant with Israel to end only on Judgement Day, which means that Israel shall hold Meggedah {of Armageddon fame} & the First Temple of Solomon {now only the Foundations remain, which will have to be measured in Rev. Chapter 11}, in order that the New Jerusalem of Revelation Chapters 20, 21 & 22 be accomplished.
            All the Best, my Jewish Brothers & Sisters, in holding the Fort of Israel till Kingdom Come.
            Thank You & God Bless.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Yes, you people always say that, and we always deny it.

            Deuteronomy 29:29

            The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.

            What part of forever don’t you xtians understand?

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            You see, we aren’t interested in the end times. That would be one of the “Secret Things”.

            Ours is just to follow the Law. Not very exciting for you Messianics, but our religion is not about excitement and drama. It is about obedience.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            In the Torah of Moses, sodomites, blasphemers, adulterers and apostates were all punished. I certainly hope the Esteemed Shomrim adhere at least somewhat to The Book.

          • Guest

            I find it odd that YOU can overlook the absolute hatred that islam holds for Jews , Israel ,and Zionism ?. Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem which muslims are not only desecrating archeologically but are physically preventing Jews praying there ?. Why is this Al Aqsa mosque regarded as the second most holy site in islam when Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran ? If you wish to align yourself ideologically with these inbreds then Judaism is doomed.If you think that having a common revulsion is a guarantee of safety then you are grossly naive and foolish

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            You are referring of course to Shia Islam, and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who sided with the Nazis.

            He met a sticky end, as will the Shias, backers of Hamas and Hezbollah.

            Don’t be like them. Don’t back Iran.

          • PedoProhet

            “Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem”

            Because the whole essence of this primitive violent “religion” is taking over all it can.

            After anexing all jewish holy places and historic religious figures, they took over jewish history, adopting the name “palestinian” (pretty odd choice given that their language doesn’t even have the letter “P”) and systemstically destroying any jewis archeological findings they get their hands on.

          • Sophia Dilligaf Hill

            Salam alykum Et shalom!!!! I was raised as a Christian but born half jewish and I’m now a Muslim!!!! …. How has this turned from what this artical is really about too about Nasty low life Muslims and how your either generalising or just saying Muslims are like that completely worthless pieces of shit!!!
            …..compared to a Jew that has a so called state (forbidden by God by the way!) and who also says it is also a peaceful religion but look around you what the fuck is happening in isreal and garza Now? And how come if you are jewish where you can not be born in that country and not speak Hebrew or Yiddish or arabic and still get a passport and join the isreali army and build a home anywhere you like even if you drive your fellow neighbour out on the street! Now that doesn’t make sense!

            ANNNNND ALSO HOW HAS THIS TURNED IN TO A ENGLISH PRIDE AND NATIONALIST HEATED DEBATE ABOUT people on benifits and people who can’t speak English and foreign married dual british citizenship couples huh ?… Je suis d’isolé mais ils est beaucoup une trés grosse raciste Nika mouk!

            BY THE WAY GUYS…………

            ……God forbid if you guys end up sick and need a doctor or a nurse AND that doctor And nurse has just turned out to be foreigner plus the only specialist available to see you oncall and is the only Person covering 3 hospitals for that night, because british doctors won’t work in the overstretched and now a major incident alert for a majority of hospitals that has been issued across the whole countries NHS also because British people take our NHS for granted and it’s free…. the NHS has before the governments own charity system in its own way.

            Your taxes for one year never mind the other national services and local govement services you get, don’t pay enough to cover a whole years worth of treatment and community services including our pharmacies like lyods or boots or ever super drug are all partially govement funded or one major trip to hosptial for you or your family …

            And those 50% of patients have not been Seen yet And the have already waited an 6hours to see a nurse and a doctor in A&e!

            Oh and by the way that foriegn doctor and his medical team… Have just saved your arse both physically, mentally and financially because he just signed you off as not been fit to work, SO NOW you have the right and a good strong medical case to claim those benifits that you feel you have beening working all your life to pay for and see nothing back and so a low life muslim can have the right to breath and live and that they have basic and adavanced human rights that they wouldn’t have in their own country which you probably give money to help a charity for… SO that same cause that foreigner has migrated in England for….

            Oh and the OTHER 50% of people that need a doctor but not A&e they need a GP WHICH THE WAITING TIMES ARE BETWEEN ONE TO four weeks to see a doctor….. those doctors are foreign usually jewish or Muslim as for it says in the all three books but especially The Torah and allot in the Quran “those who do good and help people will surely have favour upon them when it comes to their time!” Muslims read the bible , the Torah and their Quran! AND In fact Jews and Muslims have been living in peace for thousands of years!!!! The whole Quran is based on all three books it’s the last edition of gods/Allahs testament to this world!!!

            Like I said I am British I was born there , jewish and Muslim I have my British passport, and I can choose between a isreali or an algerian passport ……I belong to three nationalities! And I recently moved to France i am a resident of France too! And I only speak English and a little french and arabic …. And before u go and spout out anything about Islam go download the english quran on your phone and just lighty read with out taking every verse literally…. As it says there is allot of interpretation needed but yes Islam is a very peaceful religion just like any religion can be peaceful if taught and used in the right hands and with good knowledge and education.

            And that’s my rant over now please let’s have an actual intellectual not hatred driven and anything along the lines like that discussion about this artical!

          • m parker

            “those who do good and help people will surely have favour upon them when it comes to
            their time!” Muslims read the bible , the Torah and their Quran!”

            Any”good “Muslims do to people can only be to their co religionists, as
            the Quran points out in 5.55.

            “Your (real) friends are (no
            less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who
            establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in
            worship).”

            and
            5.56
            “As to those who turn (for friendship) to
            Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship
            of Allah that must certainly triumph.”

            Because:
            3.32 Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

            The Muslim holy book is the Quran only, which is said to be the verbatim words of the Islamic god, taken to be eternal, clear to understand, and beneficial to mankind, the Bible then is irrelevant to any Muslim, as it is said to have been changed by man,and is not the literal word of Allah.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Try 2;62 then

          • peter

            Pointing out a verse which contradicts other verses shows that Allah is not as consistent and clear as an omniscient being should be, or indeed is given to be in his book, said to be clear and easy to understand.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Peter,find me a book of scriptures,for any faith that does not have contridictions

          • Ovida Yosef

            Peter,thank you for the references,I can now do some research.
            As to your point that Islam does not follow the same G-d as Abraham,there are constant references to Abraham in the Quran,also the list of prophets includes Moses,Elijah and Jesus,your deconstrution of the word Allah only points to the same thing vis The God or acknowledging G-d without revealing his name exactly as in Judaism,Judaism acknowledges Islam as a true religion,but apostate,while it views Christianity as not only apostate but idolatrous,but to waste time over religious niceties is to avoid the main issue,the sooner that we all acknowledge that each others faiths are valid,we can get on with solving some of the real issues that the world faces,like bigotry,inequality,overpopulation and sensible exploitation of our worlds dwindling resources,what ever G-d you worship one thing is certain,he/she is not topping those resources up.
            A Greenpeace spokeswoman once said a very wise thing;”It is time humanity realised that we do not inherit the earth,we hold it in trust for our Grandchildren”

          • peter

            I am afraid you are not on the side of facts when you claim Allah to be the same god as the Bible God; Islam’s own history proves this not to be the case, which
            reveals all pre Islamic rituals found in Ramadan are legitimised and still performed by Muslims. Mohammed’s Allah was his tribal god,Hubal which he just elevated to be the only God, giving more authenticity to his new found
            religion, as your research will no doubt uncover. You might like to ask the question,what was the name of the god worshipped by Mohammed before the emergence of the Islamic faith?

            As pointed out, the commands of the Bible God
            rest on the Ten Commanments, which when broken down command mankind to love God with all their heart, mind and strength, and to love their neighbours as themselves,
            using spiritual combat against the forces of evil. The operative word here being spiritual. The Bible prophets, including Jesus taught from this premise, exhorting
            their listeners to repent from sin first, and to put this prescribed love into action to all they meet, discriminating against none.

            Conversely a Muslim cannot do this, as he is commanded to only “love “those whom their god “loves, “ and as Allah only “loves “believers” in him, Muslims can only “love “their co religionists, as all Non Muslims are viewed not as friends but as their enemies. Quran3.32.3.28.4.101.5, 51. 5, 55.5.56 and 30.45

            Throughout the Quran there is an emphasis of fighting unbelievers,to bring them into submission to worship Allah as the only god, and accept Mohammed as his prophet. The objective of the Islamic faith is to bring the world into
            submission to Allah’s rules. This IS the context, there is no other.

            This objective,eternally valid, was achieved by the
            first Muslims by physical combat, as opposed to the Bible’s spiritual combat, shown throughout
            Islamic history with the Islamic conquests by Muslim armies of North Africa,Spain, Persia, India etc, by the following of Quranic commands, and the actions
            of Mohammed.E.G.

            Quran 9.29

            Fight those who believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the
            religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

            8.39
            And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there
            prevail justice and faith in God altogether and everywhere; but if they cease,
            verily God doth see all that they do.

            9.111
            Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are
            slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

            Sahaih Bukhari
            Volumn 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 065.

            Narated By Abu Musa : A man came to the Prophet and asked,”A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah’s Cause?” The Prophet said,”He who fights that Allah’s Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights
            in Allah’s Cause.”

            Sahih Bukhari
            Vol 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.

            Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah ‘s Apostle said, ” I have
            been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law,and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”

            Christian and Jewish scriptures do not command to eternally physically fight those who do not believe as they do, to bring people into submission to YHWH’S commands, only Muslims are told in verse: 2.216.”Fighting is ordained for you, eventhough you dislike it. But it may be that you dislike something while it is good for you, and it may be that you like something while it is bad for you.Allah knows, and you do not know.”

            WhilstI would agree that we must all work together for a better world, it is unfortunate for Muslims that their faith does not allow them to be as tolerant, non violent,and undiscriminating as they should be, to achieve this.

          • Ovida Yosef

            And pointing out isolated verses without context is equally facile,have a good look at the hate verses in the Bible/torah

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            There is nothing I hate worse, not one thing, than a Jewish Apostate.

            You people have given us Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Feminism, Pornography and a whole host of ills.

            I encourage Xtians to read Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9.

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            No Siree Bob Avi, methinks that the said Verses refer to the FREEMASONS from Solomon’s Temple-building who mixed with the Jews & corrupted them, the Freemasons who came from Babylon, Nimrod’s builders, who desecrated the First Temple of Solomon, so that Yahweh / Elohim had it torn down by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.
            The Second Temple of Judaism was NOT BUILT TO YAHWEH’s SPECIFICATIONS because of restrictions on it’s height imposed by Cyrus the Great, so it too was useless to Yahweh & had to be destroyed accidentally or otherwise, by the Romans in the Jewish revolt of around 70 C.E.
            And the THIRD TEMPLE of JUDAISM is the BODY & BLOOD OF OUR BELOVED & BLESSED LORD & SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, RE-BUILT AT HIS RESURRECTION, & IN FULL GLORY ON JUDGEMENT DAY.
            That is why the Third Temple of Judaism will NEVER be built in brick & stone, come Kingdom Come !!!
            Perhaps the bloody Satanic Muslims have a part to play in preventing this re-building that is NOT REQUIRED BY YAHWEH !!!
            And may I be forgiven for using the names “Yahweh” & “Elohim” in full, in my Posts.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Again, thats all part of the “Secret Things”.

            No point worrying about it if you eat pork, shellfish, animal fat, blaspheme, permit sodomy, adultery, and murder.

            It’s focusing on a future that may never happen while neglecting the present.

          • peter

            Any violence held within the O.T.is to be read within an
            historical context, it is descriptive only, not prescriptive as in the Quran, which contains open-ended commands to
            all believers to wage war against and subjugate all non-believers. Also,no one is directed to imitate the actions of anyone in the O.T.for all time,unlike the Quran which holds Mohammed as the Muslims role model for all time and places.

            216. Fighting is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it,and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.

            Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

            In this Ayah, Allah made it obligatory for the Muslims to fight in Jihad against the evil of the enemy who
            transgress against Islam. Az-Zuhri said, “Jihad is required from every person, whether he actually joins the fighting or remains behind. Whoever remains behind is required to give support, if support is warranted; to provide aid, if
            aid is needed; and to march forth, if he is commanded to do so. If he is not needed, then he remains behind.” It is reported in the Sahih:

            (Whoever dies but neither fought
            (i.e., in Allah’s cause), nor sincerely considered fighting, will die a death of Jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic era of ignorance).

            Sahih Al Bukhari
            Vol 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 065.

            Narated By Abu Musa : A man came to the Prophet and asked,”A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah’s Cause?” The Prophet said,”He who fights that Allah’s Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights
            in Allah’s Cause.”

            Sahih Al Bukhari
            Vol 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.

            Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah ‘s Apostle said, ” I have
            been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law,and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”

          • Mr_Ominous

            Nutjob.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            How dare this Jew equate Islam with Judaism!

            Surely she is one of the Synagogue of Satan, as spoken about in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9.

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            Sorry Avi, but I fear that you are under a misapprehension regarding
            Rev. 2:9, I quote: 2:9 I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou
            art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are
            not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
            Unquote.
            It is quite clear
            here that “they say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of
            Satan” means those PRETENDING to be Jews, but are, in reality,
            Freemasons, Satanists etc.
            Rev. 3:9 likewise, repeats the very same phrase: “they say they are Jews and are not….”

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Karl Marx was a Jew, as was Trotsky.

            I know what I am talking about.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            I am of course being sarcastic about this lady. Sharia law and Mosaic law are far closer to each other than to Liberal Democracy.

            Israel could go a good clean out of adulterers, blasphemers, sodomites, apostates and murderers. I’m hoping the Esteemed Sunni Caliphate will be of assistance.

          • AJ

            Vote UKIP get UKIP, Islame should be banned, period.

          • tamimisledus

            Well actually you vote UKIP in 2014 in Yorkshire and you get

            muslim Amjad Bashir who wishes to associate with extremist muslim Pakistani politicians.Or vote UKIP and you might have got any one of a number of muslim councillors in the 2014 council elections.
            Or in the election for 2015, you might get the muslim leader of the Ealing UKIP, Afzal Akram, a defector from labour, as your MP. Or you might have got Natasha Bolter, another defector from labour, as MP for Basildon South, if she hadn’t overplayed her hand.
            Vote UKIP, and just hope that you don’t get a muslim as your representative or someone with a close affinity to the muslims in UKIP.
            Vote UKIP?
            Not I.

          • ItinerantView

            “you getmuslim Amjad Bashir who wishes to associate with extremist muslim Pakistani politicians.” (sic)

            Is that why UKIP booted him out and he joined the Tories ?

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11369574/Amjad-Bashirs-defection-from-Ukip-to-the-Conservatives-is-not-the-boon-it-looks-like.html

          • tamimisledus

            Missing the point.

            He had been an MEP for several months “.. associating ..”. And presumably a member of UKIP for sometime before that. UKIP allowed him to play a key role in the party. Says all we need to know about the selection procedures of UKIP.

            But you don’t deny that voting for UKIP got a muslim MEP.

            And, if there hadn’t been “financial irregularities” or Bashir was not head of a family whose muslim sons were employing illegal immigrants, maybe Bashir would still even now be a UKIP MEP associating with extremist politicians.

            UKIP have still many other muslims taking an active part,including political representation, in UKIP. That is muslims who believe that sharia in islam is the absolute best way to organise society. That is muslims who have nothing but contempt for Western society.

            I, for one, am not going to vote for a party which has in its membership a group of people (connected by a common set of beliefs) which wishes to see the end of all societies, including our own, which are not muslim.

          • ItinerantView

            They’ve got(had) a Muslim MEP so what ?

            “That is muslims who have nothing but contempt for Western society.”
            ” That is muslims who believe that sharia in islam is the absolute best way to organise society.”

            Really ? you have proof of course ? before you answer I am well aware of the various Islamists using the LibLabCon as entryist organisations, UKIP will be no different but that still doesn’t mean they’re aren’t genuine secular-minded Muslims.

            “I, for one, am not going to vote for a party which has in its membership
            a group of people (connected by a common set of beliefs) which wishes
            to see the end of all societies, including our own, which are not
            muslim.”

            Good for you, keep your absolutism but it’s not that black and white .
            It might be in the endgame but for now it’s nowhere near it.

            There’s a far wider context, not least several hundred million secular-minded Muslims.

            But keep playing the game alQeada want you to.

            I’m sure the BNP or whoever you vote for will get into government and set up mass deportations, not.

            On the other hand one could try reality and vote strategically, to attempt to invigorate the jaded and undermined imitation of democracy we have in the UK.

            Even that looks like a forlorn hope but has far more chance of success, than any party that shares your absolutism.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Best not to vote at all. A Protest Vote.

          • John McPartland

            You spell “benifits” – its not a stretch to assume you have several identities here as your misspelling is shared with at least one other.

          • Ivan Ewan

            But there’s no such thing as a “half-Jew” – unless the mujihadeen pay a visit.

          • adrian smith

            You have some excellent points but why oh why do you people have to bring your none existent God into every argument? This is 2015, not the 7th century, most of the world has woken up to the fact that at best religion is a confidence trick and at worst a downright lie. The most backward people believe most fervently in a god.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            These people are Anti Semites. Their hatred of Islam will soon turn towards the Mother Religion from which it sprung.

            Have not Jews been expelled from Crusader countries 109 times in the last 1000 years?

            Have these Crusaders improved their behavior one whit in this time? Or have they in fact become far, far more racist, far more Conspiratorial?

            “The Bankers! The 1% The Communists!” will any day now become:

            “THE JEWS!”

          • Dogsnob

            Why is ‘Ovida Yosef’ not a British name?

          • adrian smith

            If you are going to post here, do try not to be a cretin.

          • Dogsnob

            It was a question like any other: it would be good to answer rather than evasively insult. Why would ‘Ovida Yosef’ not be a British name?

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Hes an Anti Semite. Isn’t that patently obvious?

          • Dogsnob

            Yes. I wanted to give him the opportunity to expound. He hasn’t taken it up.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            So many anti Semites around. There haven’t been this many since the 1930’s.

          • Dogsnob

            It’s as if it is in the ground and it comes in various qualities this dangerous stuff. In its raw form, the sneering recognition of ‘difference’ has been there certainly all of my time in this country. Discomforting, but no-one physically harmed or made to feel threatened and so, imperfect life has gone on.

            But there is now weapons-grade Jew hatred on our streets, processed overseas and imported on an industrial scale.

            Our special highly toxic parcel delivered to our door by that blind, deaf, well-meaning simpleton, multiculturalism; its elbow held by oil-revenue and defence contracts.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            All Jews know that Anti Semitism is caused by disobeying the G-d of Israel.

            Its all right there, in Deuteronomy 28.

          • Dogsnob

            Why not both?

          • adrian smith

            I did not insult you evasively, I did it quite openly, and everything about your posts and your idiotic name ( incorrectly spelled ) tends to confirm my suspicion that my analysis of you is totally accurate.

          • Dogsnob

            You misunderstand. Your evasion was in not getting round to addressing my question. Instead you went straight to the ad hominem thing – filling comment space with invective in the absence of your being able to offer any relevant points.

            Thus, my question remains unanswered and one can only deduce that you find it unanswerable.

            I’m puzzled on the name thing: I keep dogs and I have very high standards – I am only interested in the best. I cannot, and don’t attempt to, escape the label that such a stance generates. Spelling? Please explain.

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            YOU, so-called “Adrian Smith” are, yourself, an insult to everything Anglo / Anglo-Saxon, because you are naught but a filthy, lying, thieving, cheating, no-good, sex perverted, RAPIST + HOMOSEXUAL COWARD, who knows NOTHING but the filth taught to you in your filthy unholy rag of what you have the affrontry & temerity to call a “book” or a “Codex” !!!
            Your shit-wiping toilet-paper Qu’ran is naught but the tongue of Satan himself, through his filthy concubine: Lilith the BURAQ, the Arch-Demoness Succubus, who nightly raped your pedophile Poppet aptly named Maha-MAD, & spawned all you Muslim VERMIN from that filthy act !!!
            What that excellent fellow Dog-Breeder {I myself harbour 2 superlative Spaniels with their Pups}, DOGSNOB means is DOG-SNOB & NOT Dog’s Knob as your filthy MUSLIM perverted mind obviously homed into, at first sight !!!
            AFTER thieving the generous & kind-hearted people of Great Britain & the United Kingdom, YOU have the brazenness of a DONKEY to bray like a JACKASS in an impossible attempt to cover your thievery of the British Exchequer, Muslims dead-beats who cheat on Taxes by driving their own Taxis or running their own shitty cheating Pork-Parlour “businesses” while claiming Dole, filthy scum should NEVER have even been allowed ANYWHERE even as TOURISTS !!!

          • adrian smith

            Keep taking the psychotropic medication, who knows, one day it may actually start to kick in! Oh God, I must be bored, why else would I continue to engage in a battle of wits with a clearly unarmed man?

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            Clearly because you are yourself witless.
            Witless, & Guilty as charged !!!

          • adrian smith

            It has been scientifically proven that cats are far more intelligent than dogs, and you don’t have to follow them around picking up their shite, I can just imagine you trotting around the park with your little plastic bag of doggy poo……oh what a sad but humorous image!

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            Quite True.
            The “sad but humorous image”.
            Of your wife / mother / sister following me around to pick up my dogs’ “shite”.
            That too after they’ve given me the Daily B.J. !!!

          • adrian smith

            Too too boring and predictable, I’m off to watch some paint dry. Bye bye.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            And maybe prove they have a job to go to, in which they have to remain for at least 6 months

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            Yeah M.F.
            “Throw the British dogs a bone or two”, U mutter to your scum-bros.
            No matter.
            All you Muslim swine, your time of Divine Retribution for all of your Crimes against humanity, is just around the corner.
            And my brother Co-Witness & I will make sure that each & every one of you gets their just desserts, as per Chapter 11 of the Book Of Revelation of the Holy Bible.
            It’s a promise.

        • mike

          i wish greggf, i am 56 been out of work for 5 years and have never received 1 penny. maybe because i am white, was self employed, had a staff of over 30, paid a load of tax, i dont know you have a guess. pmsl.

        • Julian Beach

          Benefits? Allowances?

          Are you on drugs?

          We need to end them, before they end us.

          There can only be one outcome in a war of extermination.

        • Sidionian

          Some say the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. I say live and let live, but seal them of in their filthy rat holes to rot until they experience their own scientific revolution and religious reformation.

          • ScepticKev

            And how do you intend to do that?
            It would take an awful lot of fencing to erect a wall around Africa and the middle east.
            And in the time being hundreds accumulate in Calais waiting for a free ride on a passing truck.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            You have far too many promiscuous girls and sodomite boys to keep up your numbers, far too few Crusader Soldiers to make good your threats.

            Relax old man. Sharia will heal the People.

        • MathMan

          A good place to start is to stop anymore of these people coming here and get rid of those already here.

      • AverageGuyInTheStreet

        It should be a case of: If you’ve come here as an economic migrant but turned out to be an economic parasite, then sorry mate, back you go – your work visa is clearly not a work visa so we’re cancelling it. As the Home Office is not fit for purpose and we have no faith in its ability to police our borders and immigration system, then all citizenship granted over the last 20 years should be considered cancelable.

        • Tomolika

          Most traitors are the immigrants children who were born in the country. They turn their backs and commit themselves only to their faith.

          • Erique Lamont

            I’m suspicious of anyone who puts any faith before common sense, be they Jew, Christian and Muslim…but we know who the main offenders are at present…

          • Marie Johnston

            So was Stalin.

          • Erique Lamont

            Stalin was also suspicious of anyone that wasn’t a Georgian, like he was, your point is what, I am Stalin?

            Straw man arguments are so last year, dear…

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            I tire of the criticism of Stalin. It is merely veiled Anti Semitism.

          • Marie Johnston

            Well, that said nothing at all. All that said is that the “so last year” learned response of simply saying “straw man argument” and hoping the other person will wilt before such pseudo erudite wisdom doesn’t work with everyone. I wasn’t even making a point. I was stating a fact. Stalin was suspicious of all religions except his own evil ideology that brought about the deaths of so many.

          • vigorniensis

            I hope you repent and come to know the Lord Jesus Christ very soon.

          • Wan Lee

            Why don’t christians see how incredibly arrogant and patronising that statement is? Why can’t they keep their beliefs to themselves? I guess since it’s alright to share then no one will mind my two cents. There is no Lord Jesus Christ, never was never will be. There is no God(s), never was never will be. All the wishful thinking in the world won’t make the stories of our myths and legends come to life. It’s time to grow up and let go of Big Daddy’s hand. Religion no longer serves us, if it ever did. it causes more harm than good and we must replace it with something more constructive and truth-based if we are to move forward. Reality and science come to mind.

          • vigorniensis

            You seem so certain that your views are the truth Wan Lee. But why not read http://y-jesus.com/ which counters your rather juvenile (if I may say so) points you make by historians probably far better placed than yourself?

          • Erique Lamont

            This is what gets me, especially Christians, their phoney Messiah said forgiveness and love was all His followers needed, even to the point of turning the other cheek, yet it seems the majority of Christians are nasty judgemental pieces of work…when, ultimately, their Lord is supposed to be the judge at the-end-of-days…who made all these God botherers the judge and jury? Isn’t it against their Lord’s teachings?

            There is no evidence for their water-walking pin-cushion Messiah, the Bible itself -the NT- doesn’t start until at least 40 years after his alleged death…and even then the fairy-tale they read today is the collection of scriptures that a bunch of religious zealots decided should be the canon of the Christian church, many more just as valid books are out there, but they won’t accept them…because many contradict their fable.

            Then of course the four Gospels themselves do not agree with one another, one of the most important things in Christianity is Christ rising from the dead, yet 3 of the 4 Gospels differ in what happened when they entered the tomb.

            It is funny, religion that basically doesn’t allow free-thinking, is given protection from criticism, yet people who criticise the lies they teach, are considered bigots…scepticism is jsut as valid as belief, I’d say more so.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Says the nasty judgemental piece of work.

            Debate by all means but you sound no better than those against whom you are casting aspersions.

          • Erique Lamont

            Judgmental? Why not? You Christian God-botherers go round judging me, I have the right of reply…nowhere in your fairy-tale does it say it is the job of man -or woman- to judge others in God’s name…most Christians actually work against the word of their phoney God.

            Casting aspersions? Hey, I am a good human in real life, I have done more good in my lifetime than 99.9% of all Christians, I am living proof that you do not need to do good just because you are in fear of a jealous God…IF there is a God -and there is no evidence for it- It will look upon me as it may or may not, but I certainly have not murdered or condemned anyone in Its name acting as some kind of agent of the Lord…I have not sullied the name of the phoney God by acting in its name…

            Christianity has murdered millions in its name, as have most religions, how many comparable deaths have there been by Atheists and Agnostics acting in the name of their ‘faith’?

            FACT:

            The majority of the world’s population are NOT Christian, and Islam will overtake the cult of Christianity as the number one cult in about a generation, your views about the existence of a supreme deity is in the minority worldwide.

            Man created God, not the other way round…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            1. It makes you a hypocrite. You can judge but not be judged it seems
            2. I’m not a God botherer as you put it. I don’t force my beliefs on anyone.
            3.You have done more that 99.9% of all Christians?? Now you lack any credibility and sound a little insane.
            4. You are living proof….. Who the fck are you again? … Nope never heard of you.
            5. I have never murdered or condemned anyone in it’s name either and neither have 99.9% of Christians unless you can provide some evidence.
            6. Christianity has murdered millions in it’s name. Really? Care to provide a rough breakdown?
            7. You are attributing all war and death to religionists when you should be attributing it to humanity who have the knack of murdering each other Atheists, agnostics and religionists alike. You are not being very honest there.
            8. I never said the majority of the world population is Christian. However, there are more people on this planet of faith of some sort, than atheists. That change but no time soon.
            9. You may be right that Islam will overtake Christianity. I sense you are somewhat pleased about that!!? When they do your atheist neck will be on the block with the rest of us.
            10. I can only conclude that you are nothing other than a Christian hater.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Have you been reading Deuteronomy 13:1-5?

            Good on you.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You speak for everyone? Religion may not serve you but more than half the world’s population disagree with you.
            You can have religion and be a sensible human being as well you know. Put your energy into sensible solutions rather than trying to undermine religion, or people may mistake you for one of the cultural progressive Marxists that got us in this mess.

          • ScepticKev

            I think it was tongue in cheek!
            Unfortunately science is busy building it’s own religions.
            Most science these days is un-proven, it simply relies on the “beliefs” of those who peer review their work to pass it into scientific litany. How long before those who do not believe the litany are incarcerated or worse. The Government is already considering making “Global Warming Denying” a crime.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            My favorite is the Nuclear Bomb. All hell will break loose when the Lumpen-Proletariat find out it doesn’t exist!

          • Erique Lamont

            Why repent?

            According to your water-walking miracle man, I can be as sinful as I want, and ‘repent’ on my deathbed…don’t you think that is stupid?

            I could murder a billion people, rape another billion women and men, and still Jesus would be OK with that, as long as I say: “Oops, sorry Lord…” lmao

            You religious nuts are truly insane.

            There is no God, no Jesus Christ and no Holy Ghost…there aren’te ven ghosts, period lol

          • Ivan Ewan

            ^ Clearly went to the Atheist Theological College for a couple of days, learned everything there possibly is to know about Christianity.

          • Erique Lamont

            ^^^you don’t need to experience being hit by a car that it hurts, it is common sense, cars exist, people exist, I hit a car with my hand, it hurts…I live in a world where reality is supported by peer-reviewed evidence, not ONE of you delusional cult worshipers have ever given me evidence that God exists outside of your minds and a book that He didn’t write.

            Essentially, the support for God is the same as that for Harry Potter, He appears in text…

            You don’t need to know everything about Christianity to know it is a lie…the arguments Christians use for their cult are the same for Islam, Judaism or any other cult of monotheism…

            If I pick up an apple and bite it, and that bite tastes bad, do I need to taste the whole apple to know it is rotten?

            Enjoy your delusion…

          • Ivan Ewan

            Wahey, so now you’re brandishing your almost total ignorance of Christian doctrine with pride – arrogance, even. You mistake a cloud for a car and denounce it for being a deadly menace on the streets, and badly-manufactured at that. In fact, your perception of Christianity is so thoroughly erroneous, and your rhetoric about it so vitriolic, that it almost persuades me that the Atheist Theological College actually exists.

            Your original idea was a textbook dilemma of divine grace: if I can count on salvation upon repentance, can I not deliberately spend my lifetime in debauchery and vice, only to repent on my deathbed?

            The answer is a very simple NO. It’s a very simple case of insincere repentance. You would be trying to deceive God and manipulate what you imagine (from complete ignorance) to be his mandate on forgiving everybody on demand.

            http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/forgive.html

            Oh, and do please keep it up with the ranting about God Delusions and Harry Potter. I’m sure nobody’s ever heard those tired old non-arguments before.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Jesus would be ok with that? Falls over laughing.
            You can repent but that does not mean you’d be forgiven.

          • Erique Lamont

            Yes, He would be, as the same brain chemistry that creates the ‘reality’ that makes idiots believe in something that has no evidence for existence -God, will be the same brain chemistry that makes me believe I have repented…

            Anyway, I have no concern, there is no God, PROVE He/She/It exists…so far not one of you buffoons has done so…and there is over a billion of you now…but Islam is closing and will be the majority religion in a generation or so…Christianity is decaying…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I’ll leave that to the evangelists. I don’t force my beliefs on anyone. They are for me and me alone. By the way there are plenty of buffoon atheists as well and I’ll wager I’m conversing with one now. I really care little for your atheist view as little as you care about mine.

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            Erique Lamont, your ignorance of Christian Belief is astounding.
            Only true repentance, from the bottom of one’s heart, is forgiven, & that too, only partially in that a grim Penalty will be extracted for heinous crimes & sins, over & above your repentance.
            So your flippant intention of genocide is unpardonable by the very fact that U premeditate forgiveness just as any premeditated crime is penalized in any Court Of Law more severely than an impulsive one.
            BTW it will soon be us “religious nuts” who are going to buffer U Atheists & Agnostics from the oncoming Islamic hordes in Europe & the Americas, as witness this Biblical Prophesy, the Summation of my Interpretation of which is as below:
            SUMMATION In ENGLISH:
            ====================
            SUMMATION OF MY POST Regarding INTERPRETATION of REVELATION Chapter 12:
            As per my Interpretation of Chapter 12 of the Book Of Revelation & Chapter 11 of the Book Of Isaiah of the Holy Bible, the MILLENNIAL-RULE Male Infant will be born within the next ONE YEAR, which will be indicated by a Sign in the Heavens as per Rev. 12.1, & the 7-Nation U.S.-led Coalition Army {7 Heads with 7 Diadems of the Dragon}, supported by 10 Arab Nations {10 Horns of the Dragon}, will try to Capture / Kill this VERY SPECIAL CHILD OF GOD, but will FAIL miserably when He is immediately taken up to Heaven, & this self-same Army will then try to kill the MOTHER by bursting the MOSUL DAM {across the TIGRIS RIVER} in Northern Iraq, but will AGAIN FAIL when ALMOST ALL THE WATER FROM THE DAM’S RESERVOIR will be swallowed up by the huge Karst Caverns presently beneath this Dam. The Mother will finally escape to the wilderness for 3.5 Years, in a large Aircraft, probably a Hercules C130-E of the Iraqi Air Force. There will be a Revolt by SATAN & his Minions against God in Heaven, Satan & his Minions will be defeated & cast down onto the Earth for 3.5 Years, where they will make life very miserable for good Christian People, who number One-Third of all of Mankind. My Post is a Warning & Preparation to this One Third of Mankind, good Christian people.
            Please Read the said Chapter 12 of the Book Of Revelation of the Holy Bible on your own, to form your own conclusions, &, if interested, U may LEFT-CLICK on my name herein, & scroll my Complete List of Posts on YAHOO or DISQUS to reach & read the FULL FORM of the said INTERPRETATION in the LANGUAGE OF YOUR CHOICE.
            Also available on my FACEBOOK Timeline.
            Thank you and God Bless.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Have you read Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 by any chance? It might explain the wickedness of Bolshevik Jews Miliband and Cameron.

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            The Books Of Revelation & Isaiah.
            I SLEEP on them every night, as raging dragons & beasts course through my somnolence !!!
            The verses you refer to, I’ve already replied about in another Post elsewhere on this Page, but to recap, the said Verses refer to False Jews & Pretenders who pretend to be Jews but are actually Satanists / Freemasons etc.
            The very fact that “Good & Genuine” Jews are appreciated in a Christian Bible, should have made all those Antisemitic fools in the Christian Hierarchy red with shame !!!

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            Both those books are garbage. Both contradict the laws of Moses.

          • Erique Lamont

            Your ignorance of YOUR cult is also astounding, the Bible is contradictory, for any issue you can cite a supporting Scripture, this is why slavery was supported for centuries.

            As for Christians buffering Atheists and Agnostics, you have that the wrong way round, your cult has murdered as many as Islam over the centuries i the name of the non-existent God…fact is, billions over the centuries have died in the name of YOUR God, how many have died in the name of Atheism? Germany was a Christian county and caused WW2, the world would be more peaceful if psychotic bozos like you just lived a good life looking out for others, as I do, than trying to appease a jealous, immature God… 🙂

            Read your words and learn, you are stating as fact something that has no more sound foundation than any creation myth or fairy-story, it is like using the works of Rowling to prove that Harry Potter exists…it is illogical, unsophisticated and childish thinking like yours that makes me wary of any psychotic who believes the non-existent is real.

            The scientifically trained, educated and non-gullible amongst we humans know that the mind has many elements, you can believe that you have repented, doesn’t mean that your deep down psyche believes that…we each create our own reality -religious nutters, like you, even more so. TBH I have little time for idiots like you who believe in that which there is no evidence for…you are delusional…

            I live a good life, I look out for others, but NOT because I fear retribution after death by an immature God throwing me into an equally non-existent Hell, but because it is what feels right. IF there is a Hell or indeed a Heaven, is the invisible sky-fairy going to look upon me as a good human with a more preferential light, than millions of your brother and sister Christians over the millennia who have murdered in His name?

            If there is a God, it is for Him to judge me, you or Islamic extremists, not gullible fools like you…

            There is as much proof for unicorns and leprechauns as there is God, do you worship them too? lol

            I have some magic beans for sale, if you need them…lol

          • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

            You sound so keen, as if trying to convince……..YOURSELF !!!

          • Dogsnob

            Although my knowledge regarding Christian doctrine is very patchy, it does cover enough ground for me to see that you know far less. In addition, you display that missionary bitterness which has become the hallmark of the combat atheist.
            The little that you think you know, is so far off beam that you are not to be taken at all seriously.

          • Erique Lamont

            You are wrong, simple as that, if you ever read the book -I have, know thy enemies- you’d know that the pin-cushion Messiah preached love and forgiveness, that is the basis of the Christian message, are you really saying that the message of Jesus was no what God wanted?

            He does say: ‘turn the other cheek” does He not?

            My observations are 100%, that you cannot counter them says all I need to know how right I am.

            Been nice educating you 🙂

          • Dogsnob

            An education indeed. In fact you’ve turned a light on for me!

            Your ‘water-walking…pin-cushion” diatrabes, have shown your level of thinking in perfect clarity. Pip pip!

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            I agree about the “Holy Ghost” and the Xtian Marxist Revolutionary prophet, but there is most certainly a G-d, as there is His Chosen People.

          • Akram

            I was born here but my parents were immigrants. You can’t call me a traitor. I follow my faith and commit myself to helping the British society – whether is be atheists, Christians, Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus, Jewish or Buddhists or anyone!

          • labambagia

            Pearl of wisdom from one of the head of Islamic faith in Iran
            Ayatollah Khomeini:
            A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he
            should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and
            damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her
            life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives.
            The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
            From Khomeini’s book, “Tahrirolvasyleh”, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom,
            Iran, 1990

          • Akram

            Am I gonna believe some random Head of Islamic faith from Iran or Allah’s Apostle? Hard decision, isn’t it?! Plus in Iran, the main sect of Islam is Shia, which I don’t follow and the ruling for this may be different in Shia but in what I follow – Sunni- this is strictly FORBIDDEN!

          • Joseph Flannagan

            It is simply a matter of degree. As mohammed – allah’s apostle – who you have just said you believe – married a six year old this legitimises child marriage for ALL muslims whether they follow Shia , Sunni , Ahmadi , Sufi etc. And Khomeni as the leader of the largest Shia nation is hardly some ” random ” character but an influential and credible islamic leader and scholar.

          • akeel ma

            prove so why does the the author of that bio of the last prophet born in Uzbekistan and 200 years after him then so u believe him do u? then 200 years if somebody writes something about u is going to correct or is it chain of narration false?

          • Joseph Flannagan

            So are you DENYING that both Muslim and Bukhari are SAHIH hadith ?? Are you insinuating that all the information therein is untrue ?. Then WHY is it still used as reference by scholars , students and muslims in general ??. You are also implying that for more than 1000 years muslims have allowed blasphemy against mohammed !!!!.

          • akeel ma

            so why do christians use the work of saint paul (his written bible) ?when he came three hundred after the real jesus? and we are not allowed marry girls so why is it is it a sin then?

          • Ivan Ewan

            We Christians use the Bible because we don’t share the idea that Jesus received a book called the “injil” (whatever it is, probably something akin to the koran) from God. Nothing of the kind was ever thought of before Islam began insisting that it was the case.

            The Bible, not written by Paul but with Paul as one of many contributors, is more or less the same as it has ever been from the beginning – the Dead Sea Scrolls proved this once and for all. On the other hand, the Koran’s verse of stoning was eaten by a goat! And all but one version of the Koran had been burned by Uthman. Why? I guess we’ll never know, he burned the evidence! But the one thing we do know is that those korans were textually different. Uthman chose the text he liked the best and ordered it in the most confusing way imaginable (longer chapters before shorter chapters). One of the first apostates of Islam was a friend of Mohammad who offered an alternative for one of Allah’s “revealed” verses. Mohammad accepted the alteration, demonstrating that in reality, Allah’s opinion was immaterial.

            Islam holds that the written word of God cannot be corrupted. I can’t help but think that sheer fatalism took over and scribes became very sloppy – “insh’allah it will be 100% correct”. The result was a whole array of different korans, of which one was picked more or less at random. The fact that the Koran was often corrupted is proof that the Koran is by its own accord, not the word of God.

            Judeo-Christianity holds that the written word of God could be, but must not be, corrupted. The result, attested to by the Dead Sea Scrolls in particular, was that every copy was meticulously careful. Because of this great care, the Gospel that Christians held in their hands in the time of Mohammad was essentially identical to the Gospel held by Christians of the same language today.

            “If there is any doubt about the things which I have revealed to you, go to the People of the Book [Jews/Christians] for judgement according to the gospel they have in their hands.” – that’s from the Quran.

            If you live in the Anglosphere, you’ll find a Church within walking distance. Services are on Sunday.

          • akeel ma

            no injil is in isreal the real copy were it says he is a prophet and also u believe those chinese wispers that quran is lost if yes do u know that we muslim still and have since the recite the quran from none stop only when it is a prayer ( namaz time ) please tune in on line

          • Ivan Ewan

            “The Injil is in Israel”? Oh I’m sorry, is it those pesky Jews again?

            The Injil – the book allegedly given to Jesus by God – does not exist and has never existed. It’s a complete fabrication. People only believe it because of Islamic brainwashing.

            A good example of brainwashing would be reciting the quran non-stop five times a day, like you mentioned. Imagine listening to “Yellow Polka-Dot Bikini” on constant repeat, five times a day, every day of your life. You would never, ever be able to get that song out of your head. It would drive you insane.

            Satan – sorry, I mean “Allah” – must be a very happy bunny.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            ??????????

          • akeel ma

            and for record ur using non muslim materiel and websites as ur information thank you

            so u think they will tell the truth next thing u will be saying badgdadi is muslim his real name Simon Elliot, aka Al-Baghdadi (isis)

          • Joseph Flannagan

            The koran and the hadith are NOT non muslim material. YOU are a perfect example of why muslims have remained backwards , ignorant , bigoted and paranoid. You have a selective view of your religion which refuses to accept any of the WELL DOCUMENTED negatives and you try and present this fairy tale version that pretend is absolute perfection – which it is NOT !! .

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Again you are disputing source materials. You have already said that the hadith are made up . The koran and the hadith are NOT non muslim material. YOU are a perfect example of why muslims have remained backwards , ignorant , bigoted and paranoid. You have a selective view of your religion which refuses to accept any of the WELL DOCUMENTED negatives and you try and present this fairy tale version that pretend is absolute perfection – which it is NOT !! .

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Your responses are becoming more and more bizarre !!The koran and the hadith are NOT non muslim material. YOU are a perfect example of why muslims have remained backwards , ignorant , bigoted and paranoid. You have a selective view of your religion which refuses to accept any of the WELL DOCUMENTED negatives and you try and present this fairy tale version that pretend is absolute perfection – which it is NOT !! .

          • akeel ma

            so ur an ape are u go fuck an ape

          • Joseph Flannagan

            That reply sums up your intelligence level very well. It also proves that you have NO logical , reasoned or sensible argument to defend islam . Goodbye.

          • akeel ma

            evemn darwin accepted that it is theory do u know what theory means and as it heplss darwin in his study thats all and remember every creation as a creator not that i am forcing something on u i dont care

          • FergusReturns

            “in what I follow – Sunni- this is strictly FORBIDDEN!”

            Not in Afghanistan. They bugger little boys every Thursday there.

          • Avi Ben Gurion

            You take a weekly visit to the Pashtuns, do you?

          • tamimisledus

            If she was penetrated vaginally, then she would have lost her virginity, would be a disgrace to her family and could not get married. Not even a perverted muslim would dare to make that official.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Theres a similar passage in the Talmud

          • greggf

            Well Akram, this link may not apply to you:
            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-muslims-face-worst-job-discrimination-of-any-minority-group-9893211.html
            But sooner or later those it does apply to may find themselves packing their bags….

          • Akram

            True. Mainly because of the stereotype that the Muslims claimed benefits, but for other reasons. But many of us try hard to earn if good living and not to resort to stuff like drugs. But that link says the truth (probably).

          • m parker

            “I follow my faith and commit myself to helping the British society”
            Very noble of you, but, if you want to be true to your faith, (if it is Islam) then as a Muslim your first loyalty is to the Sharia, and to live by its rules, which opposes democracy entirely.

          • Akram

            I am a Muslim, yes, but I believe the Sharia should be interpreted how you feel not how some sadistic scholar tells us it should be interpreted. And much of Sharia is misinterpreted and people like you and many others overlook the fact that the Sharia says to follow the rules and laws of where you live.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            It is a pathetic system of laws that lends itself to SO much misinterpretation and misunderstanding. If sharia law is based on koranic guidelines then the koran is ALSO badly written , unclear , imprecise and ambiguous which is a sad reflection on the capability of allah to make himself clear !. Who – apart from muslims – would be dim enough to follow and give allegiance to such an incompetent deity ??.

          • Tom

            Fair point, but Christianity is exactly the same in that regard, if not worse. Don’t kid yourself if you’re Christian.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Christian denominations have a structure and a hierarchy that can issue guidance and advice on Canon law. There is NO such structure in islam where the religion and it’s dogma are open to individual interpretation , not just by thousands of islamic ” scholars ” but by individual clerics and sheiks . Also sharia law and islam endorse many practises that are ILLEGAL in all civilised countries such as – child marriage , polygamy , wife beating , slavery , divorce without resort to a court as well as outright discrimination against women and against non believers .

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Christian denominations have a structure and a hierarchy that can issue guidance and advice on Canon law. There is NO such structure in islam where the religion and it’s dogma are open to individual interpretation , not just by thousands of islamic ” scholars ” but by individual clerics and sheiks . Also sharia law and islam endorse many practises that are ILLEGAL in all civilised countries such as – child marriage , polygamy , wife beating , slavery , divorce without resort to a court as well as outright discrimination against women and against non believers .

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I have responded to your post but it seems the reply is being held up by the moderators. I don’t know why but what it says is that Christian denominations have a structure and a hierarchy that can issue guidance and advice on Canon law. There is NO such structure in islam where the religion and it’s dogma are open to individual interpretation , not just by thousands of islamic ” scholars ” but by individual clerics and sheiks . Also sharia law and islam endorse many practises that are ILLEGAL in all civilised countries such as – child marriage , polygamy , wife beating , slavery , divorce without resort to a court as well as outright discrimination against women and against non believers .

          • guest

            Where are you getting your facts from? Child marriage , polygamy , wife beating , slavery , divorce without resort to a court? Look man I know you want to prove yourself right. But I encourage you to get your facts right before preaching on them.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I was reading a book called the koran which is about islam and I noticed that all of Surah 65 relates to divorce. There is also reference to wife beating in Surah 4 : 34 , polygamy 4:3 . There are numerous references to slavery . Sahih Muslin 4: 2127 states that mohammed struck Aisha in the chest .

          • m parker

            Child marriage, polygamy,wife beating and slavery are all legitimised in the Quran and Sunnah,if you are a Muslim you know this to be true.

            Child marriage is prevalent throughout the Muslim world as its prophet legitimised it when he”married” a child of six and consummated it when she was nine.Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64

            Polygamy is legitimised in Quran 4.3.

            “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.”

            Wife beating is legitimised in Quran 4.34

            “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
            And sexual slavery is legitimised in many Quranic verses eg. 4.3,4.24,23.6,33.50
            and the hadith e.g.Sahih Al Bukhari 3.432,5.637
            Sahih Muslim 2.3432,2.3371
            Arabian harems find their justification from such verses.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Christianity only has a heirachical structure due to Constantine requiring such a structure for his new state religion,prior to Nicine there was no such structure,the other two Abrahamic faiths do not have this system,and their theology is very similar,both regard Christians as idolaters

          • Joseph Flannagan

            That is bullshit. Christianity has had a hierarchy since Peter was appointed as Jesus ‘ successor. As Christianity spread there were senior clerics equivalent to modern Cardinals and Bishops who reported directly to Rome .

          • Ivan Ewan

            Why? The New Testament is so clear in its commandments that a simpleton could understand the most important ones. Christians who get it wrong are invariably the ones who go back to Deuteronomy and believe themselves to be, like the Pharisees, theocratic judges. Except, you know, the Pharisees were competent.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            The laws of This land are based on Judaeo christian morals. How exactly are they worse?

          • akeel ma

            no some are made up and there chat shit that it is in the koran idiot if u do not know that ur an idiot sir i know as i am muslim dopy idiot

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Open your eyes and see the truth. Why do you say that some laws are made up ??. Sharia is based on interpretations of islamic text and if it is made up then so is the koran , the hadith and the sunnah.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Sharia is not ‘based’on interpretations of Islamic texts,it is largely based on the Talmud,and many paralell texts can be found in both.
            The Quran is for Islam Holy Scripture as the Torah is to the Jews and the Pentachuech to the Christians,all contain overlapping texts.
            Jewish Christian and Islamic texts all condone slavery,Jewish and Islamic texts concerning polygamy and concubines are also very similar,Christianity condoned and prifited from slavery until recently,and slavery has not gone away,the Home Office rekons there are currently 24,000 slaves in the UK alone.
            No legal code can be perfect,there are flaws in both Sharia and the Talmud,Christianity never had a religious code of law,and the varying levels of civil law differ immensely

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Once again you are talking rubbish . According to the Islamic Supreme Council of America – ” The bases of Shariah are four: two are revelatory, coming from Allah, and include the two core sources, the Qur’ān, Islam’s holy book, and the Sunnah (the practice and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s)); and two are based in rational endeavor, consensus (ijma) and analogical juristic reasoning (qiyās).. The Middle East Institute also states that :” There is no dispute among Muslims that the Qur’an is the basis of the Sharia and that its specific provisions are to be scrupulously observed.” Of course , as Jews and Christians have always known mohammed stole huge tracts of OUR religious texts and presented them as his own ” revelations ” ., so I can see why you are confused !!! You also overlook the fact that ONLY islam still condones and practises slavery ( and many of the slaves discovered in UK have belonged to muslims ) . The islamic slave trade lasted longer and was more cruel than the Atlantic trade EVER was and muslims are STILL making profit from slavery. The Ten Commandments formed the basis of all correct Christian behaviour and they are still valid in 2015 !.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I have replied as follows but my reply is held by the mods. Anyway here it is :Once again you are talking rubbish . According to the Islamic Supreme Council of America – ” The bases of Shariah are four: two are revelatory, coming from Allah, and include the two core sources, the Qur’ān, Islam’s holy book, and the Sunnah (the practice and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s)); and two are based in rational endeavor, consensus (ijma) and analogical juristic reasoning (qiyās).. The Middle East Institute also states that :” There is no dispute among Muslims that the Qur’an is the basis of the Sharia and that its specific provisions are to be scrupulously observed.” Of course , as Jews and Christians have always known mohammed stole huge tracts of OUR religious texts and presented them as his own ” revelations ” ., so I can see why you are confused !!! You also overlook the fact that ONLY islam still condones and practises slavery ( and many of the slaves discovered in UK have belonged to muslims ) . The islamic slave trade lasted longer and was more cruel than the Atlantic trade EVER was and muslims are STILL making profit from slavery. The Ten Commandments formed the basis of all correct Christian behaviour and they are still valid in 2015 !.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            And you can assert that many of those slaves will be to muslim men and women.
            Difference is modern society does not practice slavery any longer. Why does Islam?

          • m parker

            But its not about what you believe is it, its how your Islamic scholars interpret your faith,which in turn allows you to understand and put into action your faith as it should be, according to how your prophet lived and his alleged revelations.
            If something is said to be god given it should be consistent and clear in its narrative,(which the Quran is given to be) together with its role model prophets actions, thereby requiring no interpretation.

          • moronophobe

            I don’t think that sharia is ‘misinterpreted’. at one place it says so and at another it says the exact opposite. and of course, there is always the little slipping hole. islam doesn’t say ‘thou shalt not kill’, it says ‘thou shalt not kill an innocent man.’ and this sneaky meandering around is the whole problem with this ‘religion’ which is in truth a beliefsystem for criminals to provide them moral justification for their criminal ways.

          • tamimisledus

            Well put!

          • Ovida Yosef

            Peter,much of the Sharia has its origins in the Talmud as does Christian cannon Law

          • adrian smith

            I used to know a Muslim called Andeel Akram, one of the nicest guys of any race or religion I ever met….any relation?

          • tamimisledus

            Well muslims have a funny idea of helping British society. They have been told by allah that British society, like all non-muslim societies, is inferior to one run according to islam. So they want to “help” British society by overthrowing British society, and subjugating it to islam, And that is treachery.

            So, that is not the kind of help we want. If you want to express your “altruistic” values, there are plenty of failing muslim societies where your help would be appreciated – you could try Saudi Arabia, for example.

            Here in Britain we find your kind of help abhorrent. So please go away.

          • vigorniensis

            Maybe but it’s the ones that come here who follow their “bible” that invokes them to kill others of a different persuasion who are the issue.

        • Safy

          Yes I agree!! All the crusades, world war 1 and 2, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the genocide of native Americans, the vikings, the hundred years wars between England vs France and vs Spain. All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way.. and so much more WAS ALL DONE BY MUSLIMS.. bravo guys you have totally outsmarted yourselves!!! 😀 Stop being ignorant racist people and read your own history before pointing a dirty finger at others.

          • Edward Welsh

            so that condones Muslim terror attacks, do yourself a favour and look up how many terrorist attacks have occurred since the new millennium. Stop trying to pass yourselves off as the puritans and by the way we have not forgotten the Ottoman empire-how many christian infidel heads your sanctimonious religion has murdered. No one can deny what the west has done, but Islam ain’t noangel either.

          • Safy

            Sir do me a favor and look at this from a different angle. Why is it that the western world keeps feeding those extremists with money and weapons and by training those militants for their own benefits i.e breaking down the Soviet Union and then now breaking down the Middle East and it’s stability and economy? Why let the poor get poorer and the uneducated have power? You think Muslims are happy about that’s happening to their land? No sir.. they are not. They want peace even more than you do but politics play a big dirty role and they have the finance and power to do so. Please look deeper into things and not just focus on Islam as a religion of whatever you wish to call it.

          • Rintintin

            It is in the interest of the “West” for the global economy to be successful. It is not in its interest for the large areas of the world to be in constant turmoil and a breeding ground for terrorism.The breaking down of the Soviet Union as you put it was called the Cold War for ideological reasons. The current spat with Russia is not the fault of the West but of Putin who is obsessed with recreating the old Soviet Empire. The middle East is in turmoil due to its inability to develop any form of governance that is rooted in post englightment democracy and not religious or tribal suprematism. The west did not “feed” al Queda, Boko Haram, Isis, etc etc. Islam needs to wake up because our patience is running out.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Rintintin,it is exactly in the wests favour to have these coutries in turmoil,it makes them easier to exploit

          • Rintintin

            Utter nonsense. It is in the interest of Islamist groups to have these countries in turmoil so they can blame the west and pursue their own agenda of relgious fascism.

          • wordfromthewise

            Don’t be so STUPID. Do you think western people actually like watching all the beheadings, rapes and theft of land on social media every single day though that’s what one has to do to stay on the world’s pulse? I was astounded when I saw the beheading of the Roman Catholic priest Father Murad and his 2 assistants in May 2013. They were the first of thousands I have seen since. I didn’t know human beings could be so abhorrent, evil and disgusting. If that’s what islam does to people then it’s best banished to history.

            Cameron is in the pocket of the Saudis; they donate huge sums to his Conservative party. Tony Blair imported MILLIONS of Salafi and Wahhabi moslems to the UK; he even encouraged the building of mosques in the UK so that now we’ve got 2000 of the bloody things, all now on land that will never, because of islam, be sold back to British people, i.e. non-moslems.Give your spiteful tongue a REST.

          • Jody Taylor

            An intelligent and measured assessment of the situation. Well done.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Safy,well said

          • orlando098

            How about the role of some countries, like Saudi, in exporting extreme fundamentalism and intolerance. You can’t say religion has nothing to do with violence in the world. As the article says, why else would people start rioting over a (very harmless, inoffensive) cartoon of Mohammed and attacking innocent Christians. Yet they take no offence, and make no demonstrations, over 17 people people killed in the name of their religion. Kind of strange priorities.

          • Derek Lambada

            They don’t keep funding extremists. The West fight the extremists. Sometimes they provide support for people fighting against repressive regimes.
            They didn’t support people to break down the Soviet Union, only to stop it imposing itself on others.
            Everything the West does is intended to increase stability. The West makes more money that way and feels better for improving peoples lives, they want all people to be peaceful and successful. They try and help with education too but the Islamists hate that, witness Boko Haram.
            You have a really warped world view and a total misunderstanding of the motivations of Western foreign policy. They make many mistakes but you have the motivations entirely wrong.
            I’m starting to think we should leave the Islamic countries to their brutal dictators, repressive regimes and their misogynistic anti-progress seventh century lack of morality.

          • Jody Taylor

            Hi Safy! When you say “politics play a big dirty role” you may be forgetting that politics is all about THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE. In short, it is not about some disembodied entity from Mars, but represents real people from the society and their wishes about the way things should work. A society is a pressure cooker of all sorts of competing ideologies. After the colonial era in Africa and the Middle East most of those countries which sought and won independence have turned into anarchic, brutal and violent nations. Makes you wonder why they wanted to be freed from the shackles of western colonizing powers when a great number of them want to and DO head towards these same western powers. Meanwhile, their societies have been reduced to barbarous tribes.

            Unintelligent is the best spin I can put on it all.

          • zz

            The West has even armed these terrorist groups….

          • Allen

            Africans started the slave trade, read your history

          • labambagia

            Afro Americans hate African because as my Jamaican friend tells me ‘They were our brothers and they sold us as slaves’

          • Allen

            It started long before that, north Africans were raiding southern Ireland and southern England for slaves a couple of centuries before the slave trade with America

          • Ovida Yosef

            about 5 centuries actually

          • Safy

            I guess Africans know each other better. I could be wrong.

          • wordfromthewise

            You? Wrong? No!

          • Safy

            Yes sir, everyone is prone to mistakes and that includes me. It’s not wrong to admit when I am wrong. I am not as bad as you might picture me.

          • JohnLobo

            Aided and abetted by the Arabs, who were the biggest slave traders of them all.

          • Safy

            And did you stop them or join them sir?

          • JohnLobo

            The Arabs were slavers many centuries before the British started their ventures overseas so would not only not have been aware of the problem, but totally unable to do anything about it.
            Europeans, including the British, then, shamefully became involved in the slave trade themselves.
            HOWEVER, the British (please Google William Wilberforce) then strove, with the Royal Navy as their principle instrument in this, to abolish slaving in the western world. They failed to do so in the Moslem countries of the Middle East.

          • Steve

            I love your use of the passive “became involved in”, as if we Brits weren’t the main instigators and just happened to join the party as everyone else was doing it.
            But you save yourself with the active “the British then strove…. to abolish….” Why, hurrah for us, putting an end to what we (didn’t) start) we are heroes one and all!

          • Ovida Yosef

            The Brits came to the slave trade after the Portugese and Spanish involvement,read a good biography of Franis Drake

          • Omar

            “The Brits came to the slave trade after the Portugese and Spanish involvement . . . .”

            The Spanish and Portugese inherited the infrastructure of the slave trade from muslims, during the Reconquista.

          • FergusReturns

            “as if we Brits weren’t the main instigators”

            Uh, we weren’t.

          • Steve

            How so?

          • Omar

            “The Brits came to the slave trade after the Portugese and Spanish involvement . . . .”

            The Spanish and Portugese inherited the infrastructure of the slave trade from muslims, during the Reconquista.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Did you stop the muslim fundamentalists or will you be joining them sir?

          • Ovida Yosef

            The ancient Arabic tradition of slavery was to keep the slave for 15 years,then free him,slaves were also educated,after the 7 th century returning slaves brought Islam to central Africa

          • Noa

            All African slaves were castrated by their arab masters to Arabia in order to prevent reproduction. Despite the high death rate from such barbarity this ensured a continuous requirement for slaves and business for the muslim arab traders.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Noa that is patently untrue,some slaves were castrated if their position was to be in the hareem,but these were castrated at puberty and were very few,some eunuchs rose to very high positions in Arab courts.there are decendants of returned slaves in Mali and Nigeria

          • Noa

            The widespread practices of the arab slavers on their African slaves are well and reliably documented.

            While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.

            While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.

            While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.

            It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States).

            A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Noa,my last response to your non sense,in the Carribian and the Untide States the slave were selectively bred,just as were cattle,Sahaladin and his Mamluks would also disagree with you,the Egyptians fielded an army of slaves,against whom the Europeans did rather badly

          • wordfromthewise

            The hate oozes out of your comments. You can’t help yourself, can you? If you don’t like living in a Western country, please leave. Go somewhere where you can can watch the daily beheadings, if that’s what you want to do and if that’s what will make you happy! There is NO point in arguing with a taqqiya artist like you.

          • r blackmore

            sadly again you are quoting what you have been taught not the actual history of facts

          • patrickirish

            Yes, the slaves who were the most effective troops for their Muslim masters were the Janissary – former Christians.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            They fielded an army of slaves so those slaves could die instead of the Turks or the Egyptians. You also FAIL to see the irony in the fact that they had SO many slaves they were ABLE to form an army – and presumably still have enough slaves left at home to do the slaving !.

          • tamimisledus

            Those Egyptians! Using slaves as human cannon fodder. How noble is that? Keep telling us how good you think the barbaric slave owners were, and how you praise them. We shall judge you accordingly.

          • Ovida Yosef

            You are seriously twisted,I have never condoned slavery,you should study a little history,the Mamluks eventually became the rulers.
            Unfortunately slavery has not left us and is rife in western nations

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Rife? A little strong. But you could argue normal in islamic countries.

          • Simone

            But not, one assumes, of eunuchs.

          • Ovida Yosef

            As you say there were no decendants of eunuchs,but bear in mind that the western culture condoned the castration of young boys to preserve their singing voices,the last known castrati died in the mid 20th century

          • r blackmore

            muslims castrate young girls, this is 2015 not 1200 bc

          • Ovida Yosef

            How do you do that?

          • r blackmore

            its called genital mutilation, which means castration, its because muslim men are crap in bed , this way they dont have to satify their women.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Yeah women aren’t allowed to feel pleasure.

          • Ovida Yosef

            FGM and Castration are not the same,both are abhorrent

          • Simone

            True – the best known example, of course, being Farinelli. However, this was not true of all of European culture. It was mostly an Italian thing. The British, on the other hand, whilst greeting such famous singers as Senesino and Carestini with adulation, never went in for castrating their own singers. Interestingly, the singing – and, indeed, the service in the Temple – of eunuchs, was strictly forbidden under Jewish law.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Hardly in the same league – numbers wise – as the tens of millions of Africans who were castrated by muslim slavers.

          • wordfromthewise

            Blind, deaf but certainly not dumb. You won’t win.

          • Kristina Anderson

            Somehow your defense makes this less repugnant?

          • Ovida Yosef

            My ‘defence’ of what exactly ?

          • Ovida Yosef

            I was not aware that I was defending anyone,just correcting some misconceptions,slavery cannot be condoned in any of its forms,but to demonise Arabs in order to gain a moral high ground with lies and misconceptions is equally evil.Currently slavery is on the rise again world wide,and many western governments turn a blind eye to it,the perpetrators come from all faiths and political agenda’s

          • tamimisledus

            We are not demonising Arabs. We are just showing their true nature. Their behaviour was inhuman.

          • Ovida Yosef

            As was the behavior of the Spanish ,Portugese and British for their part in the transAtlantic slave trade,and the European settlers in Norh and Soth America that profited from slavery,in ancient times the Greeks and Romans practised slavery to keep their economies going,West Africans sold their bretheren to East and West alike,no one emerges from the slavery debate looking good,so why just pick on the Arabs ? where slavery is concerned they were no worse than the rest of us

          • bobajob

            pure, unadulterated bull – as ever, the arab slavers forced the black peoples to become muslim just like they did everywhere else

          • Ovida Yosef

            I suggest you read some central African history

          • rightrightright

            Male African slaves were castrated on capture by the Arabs as a matter of course.

            In the unlikely event of such a slave being able to return to Africa, he would not have been able to pass on the religion forced upon him to later generations.

          • FergusReturns

            “The ancient Arabic tradition of slavery was to keep the slave for 15 years,then free him”

            Oh, that’s fine then.

          • bobajob

            and once the millions of slaves shipped out from Chole island and other places were worked out, they were killed – there are no blacks in Saudi or the gulf states
            the Americans fought a war to set them free – plenty of blacks in America

          • BagLady

            … and still are

          • Smug_b

            Not only were the Arabs the biggest slave traders, they are still active in the slave trade.

          • tamimisledus

            I was just about to add this “Slavery was justified by the koran. And muslims played a key role in making it happen.” when I saw your post, so I have included as an expansion of your post.

          • weejonnie

            Africans are continuing the slave trade – watch any non-BBC/ Channel 4 TV station.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Its true that the slave trade existed in Africa before the Portugese,Spanish and British became involved,but we took it to industrial proportions

          • Dave

            Not true. Read up on the Barbary Pirates who enslaved millions of Europeans in 17th & 18th centuries.

          • r blackmore

            more crap from a biased person

          • tamimisledus

            Who is this “we” you seem to believe you are associated with?

          • Ovida Yosef

            As I live in a western country,that profited vastly from slavery,and has close ties with other slave trading states,then the ‘we’ applies to all who have benifitted from it,ie all of Europe and North anmd South America

          • colchar

            And Muslims STILL keep slaves today!

          • disqus_CaEKnLR7d2

            You need to read your history. The crusades were in response to the march of Islam trying to take over the world back then.

          • wordfromthewise

            Exactly. The Catholics knew that Christ told them to love each other but the moslems pushed and pushed until it was TIME TO PUSH BACK.

          • Safy

            Was that why they tried to force the protestants to convert or die?

          • Bruce1314

            Naw,It was Martin Luther who tried to convert Catholicism to Protestantism,John Knox who tried to convert Scotland to Calvinism,Henry V111 King James V1 Oliver Cromwell who all tried to convert Ireland to Protestantism,and many did die rather than convert

          • wordfromthewise

            Protestants did not form until the 17th Century Reformation!!! The sale of Roman Catholic indulgences were robbing the public and promising them entry to heaven.

          • Safy

            Yes sir, my point was that not only Muslims use religion to serve their own agenda, be it political or personal. I am a Muslim and am totally against violence and racism and hatred of all kinds and that is what I teach my kids. I gave my daughter the choice to wear the head cover or not, which she chose not to and I personally buy her short skirts and nowadays fashion stuff to wear. Islam is not what you see on TV by a few extremists and radicals who like I said interpret Gods words only to serve their own agendas and not how it was supposed to be. I am defending and not the Muslims because I know my religion and what you see from those people and a few others here and there who do it all wrong is definitely not Islam. I hope that clears out a few things.

          • Safy

            I am defending Islam not the Muslims.

          • tamimisledus

            So you are defending islam, the doctrine of terror, with allah as the terrorist in chief? allah who is nothing more than a sadistic psychopathic bully. If he were to appear in the West, he would be taken into custody for his own protection and the protection of those around him.

            Like you, the terrorists say they know their religion. By their words, and especially their actions, they say it is a doctrine of terror. Why should I believe you instead of them?
            And I have read the koran, and the history of mohammad, and the terrorists have it right. And by your ignorance of the real islam, you are indirectly helping muslims to subjugate non-muslims in accordance with the wishes of allah, the terrorist in chief.

          • Bruce1314

            There was NEVER a sale of indulgences,that was protestant propaganda,although SOME Catholic clergy did abuse indulgences,

          • wordfromthewise

            I beg to differ!

            ‘The later Middle Ages saw the growth of considerable abuses. Greedy commissaries sought to extract the maximum amount of money for each indulgence.[44] Professional “pardoners”[2] (quaestores
            in Latin) – who were sent to collect alms for a specific project –
            practiced the unrestricted sale of indulgences. Many of these quaestores
            exceeded official Church doctrine, whether in avarice or ignorant zeal,
            and promised rewards like salvation from eternal damnation in return
            for money.[42] With the permission of the Church, indulgences also became a way for Catholic rulers to fund expensive projects, such as Crusades and cathedrals, by keeping a significant portion of the money raised from indulgences in their lands.[42] There was a tendency to forge documents declaring that indulgences had been granted.[42] Indulgences grew to extraordinary magnitude, in terms of longevity and breadth of forgiveness.’ Source: Wikipedia

          • Bruce1314

            You are obviously being one sided,i suggest you read and learn from the Catholic viewpoint.As for Wilkipedia,i wouldn’t ever rely on them for any definite information about anything .Indulgences have been granted by the Church since Apostolic times.and continued through Apostolic Tradition.Like i say,there were abuses ,like there were other abuses in other Church doctrine and practise,but the Church has been in constant reform since Apostolic times and the abuses regarding indulgences were rectified at the Council of Trent.I suggest you check out ,catholic answers.com,you will see a very good video by an Apologist regarding indulgences,and several letters ,and forms,on this doctrine.Also check out the Catholic Encyclopdia,and Catholic Truth Society,and dont believe all you read in Wilkipedia,they are not the Catholic Church ,for indulgences are misunderstood by non-Catholics.There is much more on this given out by Catholic Apologists,far to much for me to explain here.If you dont believe in the Catholic viewpoint and doctrine ,that is your perogative,but i am also entitled to my viewpoint and perogative ,which will always be the Catholic one”For thou art Peter,And upon this rock i will build my Church And the gates of hell ,Shall NEVER prevail against it.And i will give to thee,The keys of the Kingdom of Heaven,And what so ever thou shalt bind upon earth,Will be bound in heaven.And what soever thou shat loose upon earth (indulgence here granted) shall also be loosed in heaven”.Deo Gratsis.

          • wordfromthewise

            I know people denounce Wikipedia but if you check the references, as I had with ref to the above coming from the Book of Jubilees, I don’t see that harm from using it as a source.

          • Ovida Yosef

            The Catholics[who were the first protestants] fought wars with the Copts,the Orthodox and held a Crusade against the Cathars,so not much difference there then

          • Bruce1314

            You stupid fool ,Catholics were never Protestants,The Catholics rightfully fought held Crusades against the other Christian denominations you mention to DEFEND the Catholic Church.That was mainly in the past.Today the mainstream Christian denominations,are in harmony n the Ecumenical Movement,while the muslms still live in the barbaric medieval world of torture beheading whip lashing

          • Ovida Yosef

            Check this out with your local priest,the Church of Rome came to acendency after the Bishop of Rome excommunicated the rest of Christendom by sending the bull to Byzantium,creating the shcism of eastern and western churches,hence the Roman church became the first ‘protestant faith’,granted that most mainstream denominations today do not openly fight,but this is very recent,there are large congregations of ‘Christian Fundamentalists’ in the USA who still regard the Pope as the antiChrist

          • Bruce1314

            Check this out on—Catholic-Orthodox Joint Declaration -Vatican. VA—–Joint Catholic-Orthodox declaration of His Holiness Pope Paul V1 and the Ecumenical Patriach Athenagoras 1,December 7,1965—-They(Catholic and Orthodox)directed their censures(excommunications) against THE PERSONS CONCERNED,NOT THE CHURCHES.These censures were NOT intended to breach ecclesiastical communion between Rome and Constantinople.
            These censures have now been lifted by both Churches,both now work in reconciliation and ECUMENISM.
            Check—–catholicbridge.com/catholic/orthodox/does_the
            So Catholic and Orthodox were NEVER Protestant.The very word Protestant was first used by Lutheran Princes at Diet of Speyer 1529AD,and by Luther and Zwingli to distinguish themselves from Roman Catholics.
            Your quote about Fundamentalist Christians(PROTESTANTS) bears no hold.They are bigots self made supposed Christians ,who detest Muslms Jews Catholics and not part of Ecumenical Movement.It is they who are part responsible for the illegal war in Iraq,it is they who are responsible for SOME of the persecution of innocent Christians in Pakistan.They make their own interpretation of Bible like most Protestants do,that is why thee are over 30,000 man made Protestant Churches.The Catholic Church is and ALWAYS has been one in communion with the Pope,Eastern and Latin Rite Catholics have their own Cultures and Rites in communion with the Pope.Look before you leap and dont make unfounded acqusations.For THE FACTS,read Catholic Encyclopedia,Catholic Answers.Com,Catholic Apologetics

          • Ovida Yosef

            Check out 1053/4 and the schism

          • Bruce1314

            I know all about the schism,no need to check it out.I suggest you check out the Catholic viewpoint in the information i gave you,also in ,Catholic Encyclopedia,catholic.com/answers,Catholic Apologetics.
            There is also i very good Catholic viewpoint in,—catholicbridge.com/schism1054

          • Bruce1314

            catholicbridge.com/catholic/orthodox/does_the

          • orlando098

            Indeed, people forget that North Africa and some of the Middle East used to be Orthodox Christian, and Iran was Zoroastrian, before the religion of Peace people arrived with a different idea. Muslim armies came right up into the middle of France through Spain before they were stopped, and into Eastern Europe until they were stopped in Vienna, as far as I recall.

          • Safy
          • orlando098

            I’ve not had time to look at this, but it seems to be about Arab achievements. I didn’t say anything about that. I would agree Arabs in the MIddle Ages made contributions to algebra and chemistry and created some beautiful architecture etc. But that’s not got much to do with Islam as such, or the fact that they tried to expand the Islamic world by force. The teachings of Mohammed were to subdue disbelievers where ever you find them, until – if they are Christians or Jews – they submit to being second class citizens and paying the jizyah – or until they convert if they are polytheists or atheists.

          • tamimisledus

            It is a myth that Arabs, by which we are meant to understand muslim. made a serious contribution to human knowledge. Algebra in particular is a mathematical endeavor whose basis was worked out by the many precursors of “Arabic science”, and was only fully developed by European and subsequently other Western mathematicians.

            islam is a system based on the incoherent irrational superstitious ignorant teaching of the koran. By no stretch of the imagination can those teachings be other than at the periphery of the success of human science.

            Even then, as you say, that has to be set against the failure of islam to create a just society.

          • Safy
          • Ovida Yosef

            The Crusades were more about the territorial expansion of European war lords than religion,as the Byzantine Empire retracted the Europeans saw an oppertunity to expand,as they were incapable of unified thinking the crusades failed,the last crusade not ever reaching Outramer,but ended by sacking the Christian city of Byzantium,opening the way for the Muslim occupation of the Balkans.
            Interestingly,in Iberia,Jews,Christians and Muslims had a working society until the Christians decided to take over

          • wordfromthewise

            The Crusades were undertaken because the Jews in Jerusalem asked for help against the vicious moslem hordes.

          • Bruce1314

            It was the Orthodox Christians in Costantinople,who asked Pope Urban to call a Crusade to protect Christian Pilgrims going to the Holy Land ,who were being persecuted by the muslims,in the Holy Land it was nothing to do with the Jews

          • Ovida Yosef

            That is true,but the break between Byzantium and Rome was instigated by Rome in 1053/4 a full 40 years before the first Crusade,which established Outremer,the second and third crusades were to defend Outremer,the fourth Crusade in 1204 sacked Byzantium,murdered most of its Christians,and left the last bastion of Christianity open to the advancing Turks

          • Bruce1314

            Crusaders were like any army,some were abusive.The break between Byzantium and Rome was instigated by Byzantium.They vandalised the Latin Churches in Constantinople BEFORE the Crusaders sacked Byzantyne.One major factor for this was that Byzantyne Church promised troops to help the Crusaders,that help never came ,thus the sack,although the Pope condemned Crusaders and the sacking .You are bias against Catholic Church and see only one side.I have given you good Catholic contacts about the schism Check them out for a TRUE viewpoint..I dont have the time to give more.
            This conversation now concluded

          • Simone

            Actually, in Jerusalem, Jews fought shoulder to shoulder with the Muslims. The Crusaders massacred more Jews on the way to the Holy Land than they killed Muslims, once they got there.

          • wordfromthewise

            It was the Franks, according to Wikipedia, same source that you have used, not ‘Christians’. As with any 100,000 strong army of course there are going to false cleaner wrasse.

          • HDurrani

            I am political science student. I read everyone is comments, not trying to be a judge here but will make a comment for all the folks.

            “Men never do evil so
            completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” (Blaise
            Pascal, mathematician, 1670)

            I am a muslim, and I do believe that our muslim world is absolutely ignorant and trying to know nothing. Yes, accept the fact that terrorism is connected to the Religion of Islam, only if we understand this fact and allow democratic values in Islam and realize the fact that we are no more living in the 14th century. Islam is not DEMOCRACY by itself! Promotion of secularism is IMPORTANT in Islam.

            No offense my muslim fellows: There is a reason of fear and shame for all the muslims that they do not condemn the terror acts of muslims anywhere in the world openly. Its the culture and ISLAMISM. We need to break that fear and come out and accept or atleast admit the fact that our religion is not open to democratic values and we need to do something about it.

            The credit for terrorism and fanatical Islam goes to the Arabs and their non-sense SHARYA LAW!!!

            I writing my thesis on Breeding grounds of fanatical Islam and terrorism.

          • wordfromthewise

            ‘Promotion of secularism is IMPORTANT in Islam.’ WHAT?????!!!!

            Qur’an 4:168
            “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah
            will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”

            Qur’an 60:4
            “We reject you. Hostility and hate have
            come between us forever, unless you believe in Allah only.’”

            Qur’an 5:86
            “Those who reject Islam and are
            disbelievers, denying our Signs and Revelations – they shall be the owners of
            the Hell Fire.”

            SECULARISM???? Ha ha ha ha!!!

          • HDurrani

            I do not think its funny! It is a serious matter. You don’t have to tell me what Quran says, I am well aware of the quran verses and how it can be interpreted.
            Do you still follow the bible verses that talks about extermination of nations In 1 Samuel 15:2-3 “…..Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'”
            Eye for an Eye ” etc? I am assuming the answer is No , correct?

            The reason why you or any other christian says no to extremism and violence is due to promotion of ideas such as secularism or democracy. I am talking about such revolutionary change in Islam and Islamism as well.

            Do you agree?

            Islamism is the biggest challenge to the muslim world. The believe that sharya is the law and the believe that Islam is democracy is FALSE and a complete failure.

            I do not like your sarcastic laughter. Lets talk like noble people and explore knowledge to seek solutions for the problems.
            Thank you

          • Ovida Yosef

            Good post

          • Simone

            Not sure I follow you, Wordtothewise. Who/what was
            the Franks, not the Christians”?
            Nor am I sure what you mean about Wikipedia. I have not used Wikipedia.

          • FergusReturns

            “It was the Franks, according to Wikipedia, same source that you have used, not ‘Christians’.”

            Same people. “Franks” was the Arab word for “European”.

          • Bruce1314

            muslims were persecuting Christian Pilgrims going to the Holy Land,that’s why the Crusades were called

          • Ovida Yosef

            The Crusades were mainly to assert the power of the Western [Roman] church after the Schism of 1054

          • Bruce1314

            I repeat again.Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople asked Pope Urban to call a Crusade because Christian pilgrims going on pilgrimage to Holy Land were being persecuted by muslims.FACT so dont try to convince me otherwise for it just wont work

          • wordfromthewise

            You have a twisted mind set. Who taught you such rubbish?

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Why do muslims always refer to situations that happened centuries ago. Fact is that all other religions in Spain under islamic rule lived as dhimmis and NOT as equals. And HOW do you justify the fact that nearly every muslim country today has a negligible number of Jews and few Christians. It is no accident that the islamic populations of Saudi Arabia , Kuwait , Afghanistan , Yemen , Oman , Somalia , Mauritania , Mali , Chad , Sudan , Algeria , Morocco , Indonesia , Iran , Syria , Iraq , Jordan , Pakistan , Bahrain , Qatar etc are virtually 100 % muslim. ALL other religions have been or are being driven out , exterminated or persecuted into extinction.

          • labambagia

            Safy Safy you would not even be allowed to study in a strict muslim country

          • wordfromthewise

            Are you from a moslem country?

          • Safy

            Yes sir/madam I am.

          • HDurrani

            I am political science student. I read everyone is comments, not trying to be a judge here but will make a comment for all the folks.

            “Men never do evil so
            completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” (Blaise
            Pascal, mathematician, 1670)

            I am a muslim, and I do believe that our muslim world is absolutely ignorant and trying to know nothing. Yes, accept the fact that terrorism is connected to the Religion of Islam, only if we understand this fact and allow democratic values in Islam and realize the fact that we are no more living in the 14th century. Islam is not DEMOCRACY by itself! Promotion of secularism is IMPORTANT in Islam.

            No offense my muslim fellows: There is a reason of fear and shame for all the muslims that they do not condemn the terror acts of muslims anywhere in the world openly. Its the culture and ISLAMISM. We need to break that fear and come out and accept or atleast admit the fact that our religion is not open to democratic values and we need to do something about it.

            The credit for terrorism and fanatical Islam goes to the Arabs and their non-sense SHARYA LAW!!!

            I writing my thesis on Breeding grounds of fanatical Islam and terrorism.

          • Safy

            Sir I studied in strict Muslim countries not just 1 and gained my education and built up my career in HR Management before coming to the UK fully educated and qualified for what I do at the moment.

          • LetEnglandShake

            HR eh? Now that’s a broad term.

          • wordfromthewise

            But why the UK? We have almost 70 MILLION people here now. Compared to the 1970s that an enormous increase. I want to see English doctors and nurses when I’m ill, people that I feel comfortable with and who speak my language. Why can’t you do what we do – stay in your own countries and enrich and change them to your liking instead of trying to change ours? We’ve had enough of immigrant moslems wanting this, demanding that, offended by that. It’s got to the point where the nonsense has got to stop. Even Peppa Pig, a simple children’s cartoon, isn’t safe from the acid gaze of the moslem.

          • Julian McSweeney

            hahaha. What a ridiculously ignorant view of history. You should try reading a few books before you start spouting twaddle like that.

          • Allen

            If you’re addressing me Julian, learn to read and do some studying

          • Julian McSweeney

            No Allen, I clearly wasn’t addressing you. I was replying to Safy. And I do read and study. In fact not only do I read and study, but my interests are wide, and unlike a large percentage of the population, I have the time to indulge my interests by spending most of my time reading up on them.

          • Safy

            Sir I don’t only read books like your respectful self. I read visions of all parties and all history from different angles and views.

          • wordfromthewise

            Please don’t humble yourself so much. You have every right to your opinion even if it is wrong.

          • Jody Taylor

            I think he was using IRONY.

          • wordfromthewise

            Oh. I didn’t see that! I thought he was being servile.

          • wordfromthewise

            What ‘race’ is islam?

          • Safy

            Islam is just like all other races. Problem is they revolt in stupid manners and can be barbaric if uneducated which brings a shame to Islam itself. However, again that doesn’t mean Islam is bad it just means that some Muslims are selfish and disgusting poisoning the reputation of Islam and making it hard for the normal Muslims to live in peace and not just the West or other religions. I just wanted to point out that even other religions throughout history had their own crap so let’s not generalize or specify and instead let us unite and stop racism and extremism.

          • tamimisledus

            islam is not a race, so it can’t be like other races.
            islam is already poisonous so nobody, not even your muslims are needed to poison its reputation.

            You say don’t generalise, and then try to say all religions are alike (i.e. generalising) in their crap. True or not that doesn’t make all religions the same.

            You must learn to distinguish between what a member of a religion does and what its religion teaches. Christianity does not justify its followers behaving badly. islam fundamentally teaches its followers to behave badly towards everybody who does not follow, and as in the case of women, for example, towards some who do follow.

            Even as an atheist, I can see that Christianity has some redeeming features. On the other hand, islam has absolutely no redeeming features.

            So unite with the followers of islam, the doctrine which teaches that non-followers should be subjugated to muslims? With followers of the doctrine which teaches that non-muslims are sub-human? With the doctrine which teaches that non-muslims should not have the same rights as muslims? And that is just for starters.

            Unite with the followers of islam? Betray the rest of humanity and future generations?
            Not a chance.

          • Ovida Yosef

            There are as many ‘races’ and sects in Islam as there are in Christianity and Judaism and atheism

          • LetEnglandShake

            So therefore race is irrelevant. Thank you.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Bigotry is however relevant,be it racist or religious

          • wordfromthewise

            We are an island nation and the general public has never had the intention of opening our shores to the 3rd world. Blair and Cameron are traitors.

          • wordfromthewise

            You know very well that when people say ‘racist’ they are referring to the Human race, i.e. Homo sapiens.

          • Jeremy

            Exactly, was history! We need to deal with the here and now, and the problem is Islam, if that makes us Racist then so be it. Stop being a weak appeaser and see who are causing problems in the world here and now.

          • Safy

            Ever wondered why those few Muslims here and there are causing chaos even to their own kind? It’s too politically deep rooted and long to discuss here but in short.. even the Muslims themselves do not approve and are sick of it. That is why they are uprising across the region to gain their freedom and live a normal peaceful life not under the influence of the western politics who feed the terrorists and extremists with money and weapons to continue keeping the Middle East unstable and the African countries barbarian and the Asian countries poor and illiterate so they can advance in peace. It just all backfires and everyone regardless whom it is pays the price including the Muslims. If you know what I mean.

          • orlando098

            You accuse people here of not having a balanced view, but your view is just a one-sided conspiracy theory. Do you really think that everything western countries do in foreign policy in the Middle East is just with the aim of maintaining instability? Sounds very cynical.

          • wordfromthewise

            It was Obama, the Sunni moslem, who provided weapons to the Anti-Assad fighters. It was nothing to do with ordinary people, the ones that are now endangered by rabid fanatics. We weren’t even asked what we should do. I was all for carpet bombing the whole desert and I told my MP so.

          • Ovida Yosef

            May I suggest that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction,in the UK we had a suppressed and persecuted minority who not so long ago were so frustrated at not haveing a voice,they went around the country placing bombs,this stopped about 20 years ago,why ? because eventually our polititians realised that it was more productive to engage in dialogue that to keep sending troops in to kill and be killed

          • wordfromthewise

            At least the Irish were native to our country. They didn’t arrive on the last boat and then start demanding what they wanted!

          • JohnLobo

            We know our history, but I’m not sure that you know yours.

          • Safy

            I know it very well sir and that is why I am here to point it out.

          • Benthos

            Thats it blame every body else, isn’t that a surprise.

          • Safy

            I didn’t say that Muslims are not racist. I asked to stop racism. Yes many Muslims are racist and silly, however, equally so many others are educated and do not hold that crap in their hearts. Just sayin

          • Ovida Yosef

            Safy,if you could read correctly did not attempt to exonerate the terrorists,and no Islam is not a race,but religious bigotry is just as devisive as racist bigotry,in fact as religious bigotry is based on assumption of moral superiority its worse

          • Benthos

            You chaps seem to know a lot about moral superiority.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Our tutors in Tel Aviv are not only experts,but teach well

          • Noa

            I see that like a great many muslims you are anti-semitic.

          • Ovida Yosef

            Noa,I am Neither Muslim nor ‘anti semitic’ nor do I condone any form of racial or religious bigotry.
            It is true that I oppose the vile apartheid regime of Israel,and the political reasonings of Zionism

          • Benthos

            This is what its all about isn’t it, the Jews.

          • John

            Yes, The British “E”nvaded 90% of the world.

            You can certainly spell better than you can reason.

          • Safy

            Wow is that all you came out with from what I wrote.. not surprised really 🙂

          • Derek Lambada

            Sorry Safy,
            I think you’ve overdone the Western criticism a bit. Japan is an Asian country. It was completely ruined by war, then within a generation was one of the success stories of the world. The West was happy to be a partner in this, it didn’t try to dominate Japan. It doesn’t want to with the Middle East either.

            We had great hopes for the Arab spring. It’s turned to crap though. The West finally aids the Libyans to throw off a brutal dictator and… things get worse.
            I hated the double standards of the West being friendly with the repressive Saudi regime. After seeing the result of getting rid of regimes, I’m tending to support the policy now.
            The West will genuinely try and help places. Some of this is for selfish reasons like trade. But they WANT more peaceful and successful societies. There is more trade that way and more wealth for everyone. Look at China.
            Even the big mistake of Iraq, the West wasn’t trying to punish the Iraqi people. They wanted rid of the regime which was cruel to its people (and a threat to regional peace). They tried their hardest to set up a good government and ploughed in masses of investment. Muslims stuffed it up by being too partisan. I’m starting to think we should have left the brutal dictator there.

            Every creed has skeletons in its past, I agree with you that education is probably the key. However, in this country it is the better educated young Muslims that go off to be Jihadis. So even this is more complicated than it first appears.

            Oh and in answer to your earlier question around slavery ‘did you stop them or join them?’
            We did join them at first, then we stopped them. It just took longer than it should have, but nowhere near 1400 years.

          • Akram

            That’s the only thing he would be able to understand from your good reasoning.

          • Akram

            His spelling is better than the majority of the British population. So if you have a problem with his spelling, then you probably also have a problem with another 5.2 million British adults who can’t even read or write. So before you become all sarcastic and question his spelling and reasoning, remember he’s not alone when it comes to spelling mistakes and his reasoning is better than most of the other comments.

          • Maggie Bradford

            Muslims were enslaving people long before America or England. and killing if you wouldn’t convert….the Scots, Irish and Welsh were shit on too by the English…so don’t say it was UK

          • Safy

            And what have the west done to stop that? They have joined in until those people finally revolted against them and gainged their freedom. So again back to my point, no one is fully innocent so let’s stop pointing dirty fingers at each other and start putting our hands together for a better less racist world.

          • Skjerstad

            Go tell that to the Muslims, we are sick of it.

          • orlando098

            Why do people keep insisting Islam is a “race”? Muslims can be black, white, brown etc. Atheist Arabs in particular get annoyed by the idea that their race is deemed to be “Muslim” because they happen to have a Middle Eastern/North African appearance.

          • Safy

            Yes sir I agree Islam is a religion and not a race. Thank you for clarifying.

          • zz

            No, your wrong there mate. BEFORE the Muslims arrived in this world, Christians where going around forcing people to convert to Christianity, killing innocent people, raping women and stealing. The Christians where the ones who started the black slave trade and unfortunately the Muslims (mainly the Arabs) joined in even though it is against their religion to keep slaves. Not all Muslims are religious or follow their religion properly.

          • JohnLobo

            And your documentary evidence for this is? You’ll need to be a bit more specific.
            For two hundred hundred years or so after the death of Christ, Christians were more persecuted that the other way round. In England, even up to the 6th and 7th centuries, Christianity was by no means the dominant religion.
            Against Islam to keep slaves? I think Mohammed himself contradicts you on that.

          • Bruce1314

            Nonsense,MOST Christian conversions before islam came to be, were peaceful,not forced

          • wordfromthewise

            You’ve had some strange history taught to you. In the 1st century AD it was the Christians who were persecuted by the world, particularly the Romans. Pliny the Younger writes about it. He asked what he should do if he encountered a Christian and Trajan told him to watch them but not arrest them. You’ve surely heard of the Christians and the lions in the Colosseum?

          • Skjerstad

            Yes, that is correct, approx 95% all done by Muslims. You can’t use the ‘Racist’ card here, although it is your most used expression. Get real Safy, Muslims are to blame for 240 Million Christian deaths so far, and counting. Their wish is to Islamify the entire world, impose Sharia law wherever they go and bring a huge dark curtain down on civilization. With people like you around, they will accomplish it. So, Bravo to you dumb ass, time you got smart.

          • Akram

            WTF? What do you mean, 95% all done by Muslim? What’s done by Muslims? Yes, Muslims may be to blame for the Christian deaths and this isn’t really racism but you are going a bit to far when you say we are trying to impose Sharia law. Not all of us aren’t. Only those who don’t understand the Muslim Holy Book where it says : There is no compulsion in religion.

          • m parker

            “There is no compulsion in religion.”
            I think you will find there IS compulsion in the Islamic faith

            Narrated ‘Abdullah:

            Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed
            except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and
            leaves the Muslims.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number17)

            Al Muslim Book
            016, Number 4152:

            ‘Abdullah (b.Mas’ud) reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that
            there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the
            three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.

            Volumn 009, Book 084, Hadith Number 057.

            Narated By ‘Ikrima : Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event,
            reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place,
            I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it,
            saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment
            (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement
            of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion,
            then kill him.'”

          • wordfromthewise

            Excellent comment.

          • Akram

            They said in the first hadith if blood is shed then it is allowed (which I don’t agree with) if they left Islam. It didn’t say make them turn back to Islam but it was usual for riots to happen and for beatings to take place. The last hadith does not seem to from a reliable source. The first 2 are. Imagine when any person leaves their original faith. The most usual thing that happens is that they are disowned or their family may not support them. So people got angry then as well and Allah apparently said it was allowed to shed boold in these cases.

          • m parker

            The hadiths which are all said to be reliable by Islamic scholars, even the third from Sahih Al Bukhari demonstrate that leaving the Islamic faith demands the death penalty.This means that there is compulsion in Islam.

            Even if you were right(which you are not) in your claim that it is usual for apostates to be disowned by their families, leaving a faith does not constitute being murdered for it.Only in the Islamic faith is this sanctioned

          • m parker

            “but you are going a bit to far when you say we are trying to impose Sharia law. Not all of us aren’t.”
            But you are part of a faith whose sole objective is to replace all man made laws with Allahs laws i.e.the Sharia.This was achieved by the first Muslims as now, through violent invasions of other countries, where the men were killed, and women and children taken as slaves, or as your faith calls them “right hand processions”
            There is nothing peaceful about the Islamic faith, and yet you choose to remain part of it.

          • Akram

            It is my choice whether I stay part of a religion Mr B**chy Parker. The main objective is what you are mistaken about. The main objective is to be a good Muslim and get to heaven. What you have mentioned is dawah, which means to notify people of Islam, not killing them until the convert/revert. Children were never taken as slaves, and the British took slaves too if you remember. The right hand possessions were people who lost their husbands in battle and had to surrender. Please learn different interpretations. Islam means peace, it is peaceful and have peaceful teaching but unfortunately some ‘Muslims’ are not peaceful.

          • m parker

            “The right hand possessions were people who lost their husbands in battle and had to surrender.”

            Although this in part is true, the fundamental truth regarding these “right hand processions” is that their husbands was killed because they would not surrender(accept) to Islam. In any case, the Quran is said to be the verbatim wordsof Allah, eternally given for mankind’s benefit, not an historical record of what happened in 7th century Arabia, so why include something historical and as abhorrent as slavery as beneficial?

            Slavery was common place in the ancient world, but was
            continued in the Islamic faith. It was eventually abolished, and is against the law in many parts of the world, but it is still acceptable within Islam, because of its prophet’s example recorded in many hadiths,(just two given)
            and many Quranic verses e.g.8.69,23.5,24.32,33.50

            Sahih al Bukhari Volume
            3, Book 34, Number 432:

            Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was
            sitting with Allah’s Apostle he said, “O Allah’s Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?” The Prophet said, “Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has
            destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.

            Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 435:

            Narrated Zaid bin
            Khalid and Abu Huraira: that Allah’s Apostle was asked about an unmarriedslave-girl who committed illegal sexual intercourse. They heard him saying,
            “Flog her, and if she commits illegal sexual intercourse after that, flog her again, and on the third (or the fourth) offense, sell her.”

            Islam does not mean peace, it means surrender or submission. Islamic “peace” only exists when all have submitted, or surrendered to Allah, and live by the Sharia.There is no real meaning of the word peace within Islam, as it views all those who are not Muslims as enemies, who should be fought against to be brought into submission.
            It is agreed most Muslims are peace loving people, but this is in spite of their teachings, not because of them.

          • tamimisledus

            Yes it is your choice to be part of religion. Equally it was Hitler’s choice to be a nazi. Neither you nor Hitler are right.

            You confuse the objective of islam and the objective of some unspecified person. In the sight of allah, someone who spreads islam by violence is a “better muslim” who will have more chance of getting into paradise than a “good muslim”

            islam and and its texts support the view that anyone who opposes islam should be eliminated.
            Whatever the British did, that does not exonerate muslims.
            “Right hand possessions” were female slaves. Nothing can justify slavery.
            islam does not mean “peace”, it means “submission”. The koran, ultimate source of islam, is a doctrine to spread islam by war and terror. And a doctrine to keep you in constant fear that you will be tortured in hell, like non-muslims,

          • wordfromthewise

            Paedo-Mo wrote the nice verses when he was in Mecca but he turned damned nasty when he got to Medina after the people there turned against him. The koran has 2 halves, nice and nasty, so how on earth can any sane person accept it as the definite article of some illiterate tribal camel trader?

          • Akram

            So much for being kind to someone’s belief. What do you mean ‘he wrote..’. He didn’t write it and there is no difference between the verses told to the Prophet pbuh in Mecca or Medina.

          • wordfromthewise

            270 million!

          • John Watson

            You make some valid points of course. But the analogy is being made between religion and actions. The above things you mentioned (especially the Crusades) had nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible (even though some of it may have used the name “Christian”- that means next to nothing). The best test I can see is to see what the text itself actually mandates. For the Bible, it is clear from the words of Jesus: “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, less those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you…” (Luke 6:27)

          • orlando098

            That should have been “bless those who curse you” I think… And yes, while I don’t think following the instructions of Jesus to the letter would be practical etither (leave your family and job, don’t plan for tomorrow, just leave everything to God etc) and he was also sometimes angry with unbelievers, his approach was generally about love and forgiveness, which you can’t say for the Koran. Even the verse which is often quoted by Muslims, about how if you kill one person it’s like killing all humanity, is only about killing an “innocent” person, and it’s immediately followed by one saying that people who oppose Islam should be crucified or have their hands and feet cut off.

          • BILL ROB

            Let’s get back to the NOW time not the historical past, we can’t change what happened then but we have learned from it. Well some have, others just want to live in that painful past and force their doctrines on the rest of us. No one is saying that only good was done in the past but today only terribly bad things are being done to try and dominate us through fear and Islamic terrorists are making the most effort at doing this. They will never accomplish a Muslim takeover as the western world would go to war to prevent this from happening. God only knows what will be the final outcome, but whose “God”?? If there is one at all !!!

          • Colin

            All in the name of “God” It’s about time all religions were criminalised and all places of worship were demolished brick by brick. It beggars belief that in the 21st century people still believe in magical, all powerful deities. I mean do the religious still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy for example? It’s was so easy for people living centuries ago to invent God(s) to explain natural phenomena simply because they didn’t understand the laws of nature. yes I am an Atheist but the only difference between me and the religious is, I just believe in one less God!

          • BILL ROB

            Totally respect your point of view Colin.

            It would be incomprehensible to believe any “God” would allow the evil destruction and cruel pain that has been inflicted upon mankind, past or present. If there is a God who is ok with such horrific happenings, he/she/it can get along without me thanks.

          • wordfromthewise

            The Jewish and Christian God has never shown his face ONCE and allah is simply the Arabic for god. None of the Egyptian gods ever showed up either, nor the South American gods, where people had to be sacrificed every morning at dawn to ensure that the sun would rise. We have to go forward as a peaceful world with no religion. There are too many of us on the planet now to allow religion to interfere any more and yet still expect peace. Do what you like behind your curtains but never in public. Religion should be banned.

          • Bruce1314

            muslims living in Europe are out breeding white Europeans 8-1,who is to say they wont dominate Europe,and use our democratic voting system to out vote us,and so democratically impose shia law on us all,thus ending democracy as we know it,with their whip lashing,be heading ,stoning to death for blaspheming their false prophet and false religion and in this event the so called moderate muslims wont turn against their neighbours of other faiths,like they did in Iraq when the devils ISIS took over.we all know what happened when minority Nazi party took over Germany,and minority Communist party took over Eastern Europe,so the muslim takeover could happen.As for the Crusades,they kept the muslims out of Europe,while European Governments opened their doors and let them walk in like they will let Turkey int EU.So enjoy your pint of beer and slice of pork while it lasts

          • zz

            So true! Christians have gone around conquering lands and killing people for no reason, but these white Christians decide to block out their history and just point their fingers at other people.

          • Bruce1314

            That was in the past,muslims still live in their medieval world of be-heading stoning to death whipping etc,that could happen in Europe if islam is allowed to flourish and takeover

          • wordfromthewise

            And moslems have only slaughtered 270 million other moslems plus who knows how many people from other faiths and none. Put your own house in order.

          • woohoo02

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
            Watch this, Why we are afraid by Dr Bill Warner.

          • Zenkick

            this is not about history, this is about what is happening here and now. If you want to live under disgusting sharia law f. off to some country where it’s accepted.

          • Ovida Yosef

            What happens today is affected by history,the actions of one country towards another lasts for centuries,witness anti German feeling in Britain,anti French feeling in Britain,anti Russian feeling in the USA thirty years after the fall of communism.
            Those who do not understand their history tend to bigotry and despotism

          • wordfromthewise

            Still on that single branch line to nowhere? You’re on your own.

          • wordfromthewise

            Blunt but absolutely spot on!

          • paddedcell100 .

            Muslims rampaged all over the world during the days of the Ottoman empire, waging war, enslaving people, forcing people to convert to Islam or die, taking over countries…so Islam does not have clean hands with regards its own history either but at least the rest of us have moved forwards and arent still stuck hundreds of years in the past.

          • Simone

            Wildly inaccurate statistics. Britain only invaded and colonialised about one third of the world. But long before that, Islamic hordes invaded Africa and Europe (Spain, Hungary – they reached the gates of Vienna).
            But the main point is, the Western world has evolved – the Islamic world is still living in the Middle Ages, persecuting non-believers, gays, women etc.
            And only Muslims murder people for daring to make fun of their religion.

          • labambagia

            Aisha was married to the filthy so called prophet when she was 7. penetration according to her was at the age of 9. see wikiislam – Aisha’s age of consumation. you cannot base your truth on an article in the guardian. Wikiislam offers you all the references you need not opinions. but again you muslims are used to lie – see the principle of Al Taqqiya . Either you lot are liars or the poor groomed Aisha is.
            in more recent years see the below
            Ayatollah Khomeini:
            A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he
            should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and
            damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her
            life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives.
            The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
            From Khomeini’s book, “Tahrirolvasyleh”, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom,
            Iran, 1990

            THIS IS ISLAM – WOE on you all in the name of the children and truth

          • alima khan

            that’s been debated

          • wordfromthewise

            Brilliant!

          • r blackmore

            sadly you forgot that 90% of all slaves were sold by the chiefs of the villages to the whites, but to bring some sanity,slavery has been around some 3 thousand years, the romans sold english slave as far down as saudi arabia, read your history, if you can

          • Marie Johnston

            This is now, not the past. There is no justification for violence now based on what happened at a time when none of us even existed. Your ancestor did so-and-so; now I have a right to kill you, even though you weren’t even born at the time, and neither was I. It’s madness.

          • adrian smith

            But we have reformed and become civilised Safy, we recognise the misdemeanours of our ancestors and take care not to repeat them. Islam, however, is committing atrocities today, right now, rape, murder, enforced conversion, genital mutilation, genocide even. You simply cannot compare the radical Islam of today to the mindset of a less enlightened age and say that we in the West are as bad as IS or the Taliban, they have the opportunity to study history too and not to take part in such barbarity, but they have rejected that option in favour of a backward thinking religion which needs to be eradicated from the planet.

          • Ivan Ewan

            We invaded 90% of the world? Holy cow, I didn’t realise we were doing so well back in the day. If only your other imaginary statistics were so positive.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            My that you insinuate it was all done in the name of christianity, or was it Judaism, or Hinduism.
            Look over there!

        • Ovida Yosef

          To have a border service fit for purpose we need to invest in it,only 8 airports in Britain have permenent immigration and customs officers based on site,Garwick,Heathrow ,Stanstead,Bristol,Birmingham,Manchester,Glasgow,Edinburough

          • wordfromthewise

            How did you get in?

        • Carol

          Seems to be the Home Office hands are tied…everytime they try to deport someone comes up with appeals and human rights.

        • Akram

          Not if they help your country which they mostly do. Except the benefit pigs.

          • wordfromthewise

            50% of immigrant moslem males don’t work and claim welfare and 75% muslimahs don’t work either and claim welfare. We house, feed, educate and give free medical care to all the parasites. I am truly sick of it. I pay a lot of income tax each year and I don’t want to see the govt spend it on dross.

          • Akram

            Huh? I know a lot of 98% of Muslims in my town, and only 5 families are unemployed! The Muslimahs who don’t work don’t claim benefit and many I know do work but not as a job, more as a hobby (e.g. tutoring service) for which they earn money. We bought our own house with our hard earned money, we have paid it off with our own money, and we buy our own food, we pay for the education and school lunches and we get the same medical care as you, you racist person. And we pay tax too. So any money you don’t like to see the government give as benefit, we don’t like it either.

          • wordfromthewise

            ‘The Muslimahs who don’t work don’t claim benefit’ – don’t make me laugh! Else why are you all in Britain? It sure isn’t for the weather.

          • wordfromthewise

            I’m no racist; what ‘race’ is islam? I am protecting what is left of the once wonderful country that I was born in, that my parents were born in and which my ancestors were born in. So far I’ve traced my family back to 1212AD. What has happened to the former Great Britain in the past 50 years breaks not only my heart but the hearts of many other native English people, even if they dare not say it.

            Why are you here? To dilute and spoil, degrade and remove any trace of English culture and heritage that I am proud of. That is not racism; that is survival, pure and simple.

        • labambagia

          Easy. Look at the state of Guernsey, its laws and their standard of living and criminality rate . England could have been a country fit for a king . you do not give pearls to pigs

        • Ovida Yosef

          And the tens of thousands who were sold British citizenship in the 1980’s ?

      • Safy

        Mr. William.. I have been living in South Yorkshire for the past 4 years and you’ll be shocked how many English/white/Non muslim people are on Benefits here.. you’ll also be shocked to know that 50% of the jobs here are occupied by Muslims. Let’s not look at things from just one side please.. thank you.

        • HAQ KHAN

          The indigenous whites have been forced onto benefits by the wave of immigrants. Look back 60 years ago and it was populated by hard working proud people. Now degenerated to second class citizens in their own country.

          • labambagia

            what we are missing is a head of state of intelligence who is not afraid to speak the truth and take the necessary steps to avoid destruction – someone like Winston Churchill

          • wordfromthewise

            You are most welcome in Britain – you didn’t come here to kill us and take over our country.

          • mike Stead

            Haq Khan your statement surprised me but you are right, no other country in the world allows and encourages company,s and government departments to give jobs to foreign nationals, they make sure their own people come first, in the job market.

          • CBinTH

            It’s funny how when we are speaking about spite (offending Muslims about Muhammed, “punching down”, etc) and about the most evil activities possible to conceive (murdering people because they, or some of their compatriots, insulted Muhammed, etc), people are actually most animated about the issue of which religious group is on average the most lazy.

            As I began this, “three other people are typing”.

            It’s so ridiculous.

            I’m sure that there are plenty of people in favour of killing my family who are nevertheless smarter and more industrious than myself – obviously, this doesn’t make them more ethical people.

            As I type, news comes in that ISIS have murdered their Japanese hostage. Bastards.

          • Safy

            Mr. Khan.. it seems the government is to blame and not the Muslims for forcing all those indigenous whites to stay home and refuse to give them jobs and instead giving those jobs to the immigrants. Again if you look back at history.. the reason those yucky immigrants fled their countries was poverty, slavery and many other things that the indigenous whites forced onto them when they envaded their countries, stole their good to live on here and occupied their countries for years and years. Go back to history.

          • Derek Lambada

            The main reason Muslim immigrants come to the UK is that Islam turned their countries to shit because it doesn’t work as a societal system in the modern age.
            The trouble is many of them seem too stupid to realise this. They try and retain (and impose) Islamic social norms in this country. The predictable result is our country will turn to shit as well.

          • Safy

            No sir it’s because your peaceful country is financing and feeding the extremist militants in addition to military training in order to fight their wars for them and serve their political goals and once that mission is over, they leave them and thus those extremist militants become like hungry vampires wanting to feed on anything starting with their own people and eventually becoming a threat to the rest of the world as they breed and grow non stopped.

          • Derek Lambada

            So which extremist militants did the UK fund exactly?
            To which wars are you referring that we funded them to fight others?
            If it is all the West’s fault and nothing to do with Islam, why do so many Muslims join these militants rather than trying to combat them?

          • Derek Lambada

            Which extremist militants does the UK finance?

          • zz

            My German mate said that a lot of Whites from Britain have gone to Germany to live there and they claim benefits because the germans give out even more money then the British benefit system does.

          • BILL ROB

            Can’t that info be passed out to all those trying to get over here for our benefits. Bigger and better in Germany , best go there then. Yes please do!!

          • AA_Bill

            What a surprise, another muslim freak full of sh*t

          • g1lgam3sh

            It’s got a non muslim friend for every denial, I called it out above.

          • wordfromthewise

            If that’s true, why hasn’t the heavy weight of the UK immigrant population upped sticks and moved to Berlin then? Why do all the Somalians risk their lives to climb on a lorry to get here from Calais?

        • labambagia

          Maybe time for you to live in a muslim contry now hey! off you go and keep us posted.

          • Safy

            I actually did live in Muslim countries until I moved here 4 years ago and I assure you they are not the best. I am only waiting for my scholarship to end so I can finally go back. That’s not the point though.. the point is you guys need to stop being ignorant and racist and remember that most of those countries (African or Asian that your country took over for years and stole their goods and enslaved them) should have been educated and civilized to prevent any of those chaos events from happening. Just sayin

          • AA_Bill

            You need to be deported as soon as possible.

          • Safy

            Really on what basis sir.. oh yes.. freedom of speech is prohibited for non British people I guess.

          • AA_Bill

            Sheer stupidity for starters.
            From your first comment it is clear that you don’t care for Britain or the British.
            As for your ignorant comments and lack of historical awareness I suggest you start to educate yourself by looking up ‘The West Africa Squadron’.
            Now f*ck off back to where you belong.

          • Jonathan Tokeley

            Dear Safy, you mention that you’ve been for four years on a scholarship? This guff you’ve been delivering, is that what your “scholarship” has been teaching you?

          • wordfromthewise

            No job yet then?

          • orlando098

            If it’s about “race”, where are all the Spectator readers worrying about Sikhs or HIndus? You can’t just blame it all on “racism”, Islam unfortunately has a lot to answer for.

          • Safy

            It is pure racism and total misunderstanding and misinterpreting of the Holy Quran and hadiths. Everyone likes to believe what is best of them and the truth. They tailor religion to their own benefits and prejudice and not what it really is aimed for. This is the chapter of the Quran where it is specifically to Unbelievers (of Islam) just like the Jews and Christians would call anyone who doesn’t follow their religion an unbeliever so it’s not a word specified by Islam and Muslims.
            http://sufism.org/foundations/quran-islam/quranic-chapters/al-kafirun-the-unbelievers-from-the-quran-2

            Where does it say kill them or we’ll kill you or chop your heads off? It doesn’t. The parts where it spoke about killing ‘those who declare war on the Muslims (when Islam first came out and was being fought and Muslims where being tortured and killed to force them to convert back) the Quran was speaking and addressing those people at that specific time frame and not for this time frame. But like I said ignorance from many Muslims leads them to misinterpret the words of God and twist it to their own benefits and agendas whatever they may be.

          • orlando098

            I’ve not studied the texts and commentaries enough to be able to answer definitively, but it is a fact that the sheer number of direct calls in the Koran for readers to hate or be violent to non-believers is notable, and makes it somewhat hard to take it seriously and have respect for people of other faiths. What is the correct context,for example for this verse? It’s not at all clear from the Koran:

            9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

            The hadiths also contain numerous examples of violence that we would find intolerable today, and direct instructions to, for example, kill apostates or people who insult a prophet, which goes against western belief in freedom of belief and expression. If you read something like the Bible there is far more narration of stories, whereas the Koran contains far more direct addresses and threats (ie. of hellfire for not believing) to the reader. Also there is nothing much to be found directly instructing violence against non-believers in the Bible. There are some violent Old Testament laws, but the Jews and Christians no longer agree with them, and there are stories of battles, but that are obviously (from the text itself) in a specific context, whereas the instructions in the Koran usually aren’t and you have to have also studied the commentaries and hadiths etc, which not everyone is going to do (and even then, I’m not convinced they always allow for a peaceful interpretation). A language researcher looked at the holy books of 10 faiths and found that objecctively, Muslim ones were more warlike and contained more incitements to violence against other faiths.

            http://fjordman.blogspot.fr/2005/09/islam-is-most-warlike-religion.html

          • wordfromthewise

            Stop splitting hairs. The koran says what it says and IS sure are sticking to the letter of it!

      • wordfromthewise

        2,360,000) moslems in the UK, the British taxpayer is keeping well over 1 and a half MILLION on welfare, housing, free education, medical care and schooling.

        Each moslem male can have 4 wives though one is reported to have 10. This means that out breeding the indigenous will be the obvious result.

        We cannot afford all these immigrant parasites AND our own!

        • zz

          Most Muslim men only have one wife and even though there are quite a few Muslims on benefits in the UK, the new generation of Muslims are changing. They are going University and getting degrees, they are getting careers, buying their own homes and try not to go on benefits. You know most Muslims have jobs, they work and pay tax and national insurance but the problem is It’s expensive living in the UK which is why the government makes sure people have extra money as well as their wages so that people can afford to actually live. Whites, blacks, Asians, Middle Easters, Europeans you will find people from all countries n backgrounds on welfare here in the UK. People wouldn’t need to go on benefits if they were to get paid more and it isn’t so expensive living in London. Furthermore there are tons of very wealthy Arabs from Saudi, Dubai, Bahrain, Qatar etc who come to the UK and spend tons and tons of money which helps the economy. One Arab guy came and spent 30 million pounds in two weeks.

          • wordfromthewise

            There are plenty of moslem men with 4 wives, each with a welfare-provided house. No one asked any of them, OR YOU, to come here.

            Furthermore, I don’t carer what your arabic mates spent in Britain, not when they believe this hateful rubbish:

            Qur’an:8:12

            “Your Lord inspired the angels with the
            message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks
            and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each
            of their fingers and toes.” “So wound their bodies and incapacitate them
            because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

            Qur’an 8:59

            “The infidels should not think that they
            can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can
            muster so that you may terrorize them.”

      • Neil2

        The problem is they are unemployable. Troublemakers who require special treatment all of the time and use “human rights” and “discrimination” all of the time. Most companies run scared of confronting that.

      • zz

        I don’t know why you are sitting there pointing the finger at Muslim men. Plenty of white men are on benefits too! there are tons of white men go spend their benefit money on cigarettes, alcohol, they sleep around and don’t bother providing for their child. Think about the people in your own country!

        • Noa

          He’s already told you why, “50% of muslim men”, as opposed to 5% of indigenous British men, are unemployed.
          You could also accept the fatal weakness in your own argument-that we have no need to import unemployable third world illiterates when our politicians have already created an indigenous untermensch.

          • wordfromthewise

            Moslems stick to family groups and first cousin marriages are common. This leaves the poor old British taxpayer further out of pocket because we have to look after the genetic mutants that arise, which are usually very mentally and physically disabled. Fortunately, those that suffer from anencephaly (born with no brain) usually die within the first 2 hours.

      • Erique Lamont

        William Haworth, sheer nonsense, there are not the jobs there in every area and for every age group. The over 55s are essentially going to be lucky if they get any employment at all, most get turned down from anything from zero hours to 40 hours, and from labouring to banking, it is a fact that most companies do not want older workers; and no amount of equality policy will change that fact.

        I think that age group is particularly unfair to target, many folks have worked their butt off for 27 years, and if they were bankers could retire, but no, they get made redundant, and essentially the country has lost them.

        Besides, how would such a policy even begin to change radical Islam in this country? As far as I am aware, many of the identified terrorists in the UK have been employed and educated people, one was even a UK qualified doctor. How would your ‘idea’ weed them out?

      • Asim

        if we look at the figure that 99% of what you say is rubbish and the 1% is exaggerated nonsense then we find that your figure of 50% is utter bull crap, searched everywhere, no mention of that figure. i dont know anyone thats one benefits, also the benefits you speak of you couldnt raise a pet dog on. £70 per week is it?? you have to pay gas electric food transport clothing all other bills all out of that small amount. not sure what you think these people claim, look at all the businesses muslims run so even a figure of 5% would be extreme you moron

        • wordfromthewise

          There was a Telegraph article about 3 years ago but I can’t find it now. It said that 50% of moslem males and 75% of moslem women were on welfare benefits. Thanks for enriching Britain so beautifully.

          The link below is about the 4 wives each moslem male can have so even if one wife gets her period or is pregnant he can still shag away unabated. Of course, all moslem males are so amazingly endowed in the trouser department that they need access to sex at all times, particularly if another country is paying for all their women and their multiple offspring:

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/1577395/Multiple-wives-will-mean-multiple-benefits.html

          • Asim

            hahaha your an idiot, that article doesnt even mention stats and how many muslim men in uk have multiple wives?? less than 1% its not just islam that allows multiple wives. chrtistians can have multiple wives, hindus, jewish ppl althought outlawed but some orthodox jews still do
            thats all besides the main point which is that the telegraph and google have search options and there are 0 articles like the one you supposedly read. your a liar and a moron

          • wordfromthewise

            Of course I’m not an idiot. If I am then what does that make you with your imperfect grasp of English and flawed reasoning? Don’t descend to personal rudeness. It doesn’t help in any way. Your rudeness to my perfectly sensible reply shows me what a terrific problem we already have with moslem immigrants, a problem that will almost certainly end in civil war. Tony Blair and his admirer David Cameron are to blame for this cancer in Britain today.

            I told you that I had searched on the Telegraph’s archive and couldn’t find the article. You people don’t read things properly because your big mouth is always getting in the way of your small brains. You have no control, do you, no more than the IS perverts in Raqqa.

      • Landscape

        One of the ‘growing political parties views on immigration is to encourage the immigrants to bring their whole family with them. The Greens! ffs! I thought they’d have more sense, but I guess they’re as pc stupid as the main stream parties.
        What would that do to the number of foreigners on benefits?

      • Patrick Roy

        Women 79% economically inactive. And check out the stats on prison population. 50% or so also… But all very active in child-bearing and use of health services.

      • itbeso

        75% of Muslim women.

      • r blackmore

        thats the only way to work it, but we are surrounded by politicians who are only interested in them selves and are pro muslim

      • sid-chrome

        William you hit the nail on the head. Because Muslims will not integrate into their host countries society, they will never leave their dung hill in which they solely belong to. If they did integrate then they might have to connect with others, then this in turn might have them venturing into worlds unknown and eventually apostasy then death. “Fear is the glue that holds Islam together”

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        I would go further. I would assert that many are in paid work, probably casual, such as taxi driving, restaurants etc and still claiming full benefits. They work the system well and they certainly look after their own. I.e. carrier bags full of cash appearing to buy the next house on the street in its demise to ghetto status.

        Cake and eat it scenario.

        It’s up to us to change the system so this can’t happen.

      • AM

        but how will all the white single mothers survive?

      • Avi Ben Gurion

        Your own White Chav Scum will rebel against having the state’s teat snatched away from their drooling mouths.

        They might even become a mite Racist and Anti Semitic.

        Worth a shot though, I guess.

      • MathMan

        Look at the Somalians in UK, 90+% on benefits. Not much of a benefit to UK taxpayers!

      • litesp33d

        If the authorities are prepared to let serious and long term child abuse reign free in certain parts of the UK because they do not want to appear racist / islamophobic / anti-catholic who do you think is taking a serious look at those fraudulently on benefits even claiming for wives and children not in the UK.

    • Norman W Noy

      Not a thing now, we have given the country away, cause stupid politions who we keep putting backin. There. Really no point in keeping on about now there here and just about taken over 20years tops uk Muslim country then ethnic. Cleansing of Christian so you had better become. Muslims

      • wordfromthewise

        I’d rather eat my own snot for a year or die than become moslem!

    • Cornelius Bonkers

      You got it Pye. But I suspect that most of us know what we ought to do but are too frightened to say it. Colonialism was probably a bad idea, but reverse colonisation (due to liberal guilt, and middle class stupidity) is an even worse one – two wrongs rarely make a right; indeed taken together they usually make an even more catastrophic wrong. My view is that this is all SO serious that the young need prepare themselves for conscription. Then we’d see who these young so-called “British” Muslims who claim to love us so much actually owe allegiance too…no prizes for guessing. It’s all a disaster…

    • Roy

      It’s time the decent minds around us started to confront the problems head on. Decent minds will never win back a fair country.

    • bruce lorraine

      Well the Buddhists in Northern Myanmar had an idea, they burned down their neighborhoods/mosques and drove them out, killed those who resisted.

    • who dat?

      Stop importing them. Stop enabling them. That’s a start.

    • Avi Ben Gurion

      See this as an opportunity. The UK is filled with Useless Eater Chavs.

      Time for a Crusade.

    • Steve

      Almost excellent, however, as always with the media elite types, Liddle couldn’t resist a bit of throat clearing about how awful every single member of the EDL is.

      Never mind that the non-muslim working class have been so massively ignored by the media & political elite that they have nowhere else to go to vent their frustrations, never mind that most of the violence that occurs at their rallies is created by the ‘counter-demonstrators’, a delightful mix of Islamists and left-wing fascists – it’s really important just to denigrate every last EDL member and never, never acknowledge the role they have played in raising awareness of a problem that politicians & journalists have refused to see.

      Otherwise, top marks.

  • Hippograd

    This is why it’s so important that the Renaissance man and world-historic speech-maker Sajid Javid continues to be promoted by the Spectator as he travels towards Number 10. We’ve got to show all members of our own vibrant Muslim communities that they can each and every one of them be Prime Minister, if they try hard enough. That way, they won’t be tempted to adopt utterly distorted and un-Islamic versions of their noble and peace-loving Faith.

    It’s worked out very well in the US with Obama and the Communities of Color, after all.

  • http://coffeehousewall.co.uk/ Frank P

    A bit late to the party, Rod, but as you’ve brought a bottle, come on in. We’ll need as many of those as we can get for MCs. And now that unleaded is getting cheaper …

    • http://coffeehousewall.co.uk/ Frank P

      Oh … and BTW … Je suis Liddle.

  • Paul Austin Murphy

    The ironic thing is that the Muslim Council of Britain (mentioned in the article above) is part of the problem (as the Telegraph implied a few days ago). And the MCB writing this letter to Eric Pickles demonstrates that very well.

    Perhaps that’s because Mr Pickles also knows that the MCB is part of the problem. After all, the MCB has been officially rejected by both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party in the past. (The British Prime Minister himself, David Cameron, rejected the “hard-line” MCB as long ago as 2007.)

    The UK’s Telegraph neatly sums up the problem with its own title for its article on this letter: ‘Britain’s Muslims are only being asked to help’.

    And not only is the MCB miffed that it didn’t receive Eric Pickles’ letter (which it’s against anyway), it even tacitly accuses Mr Pickles of contributing to the “heightened tension” between Muslims and non-Muslims.

    As ever, the MCB puts the cart before the horse.

    There isn’t heightened tension with Muslims because of this letter (or because of any other statements about Muslims and Islam). There’s heightened tension because of the Charlie Hebdo killings, jihad throughout the word, the Muslim grooming-gangs, the dozens of foiled Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK, 7/7, the Islamisation of certain British schools, etc.

    The thing is that Muslim communities – on the whole – are already divided from non-Muslim communities. The terrorist acts in Paris are a consequence – not a cause – of that division.

    Throughout the Muslim world numerous Muslims have also condoned and even praised the terror attacks in Paris. In fact millions of Muslims have done so. And even in the UK thousands of Muslims have expressed their support for the Paris killers on Facebook, Twitter and on the Internet generally.

    So when the MCB says that “Muslims from all backgrounds have stood united in condemnation at these horrific crimes”, it’s not telling you the whole story.

    • http://coffeehousewall.co.uk/ Frank P

      Don’t you mean it’s lying to its back teeth? And that, in Islamospeak, is taqiyya.

      • sebastian2

        I don’t know what it is in islamospeak. I call it pulling our plonquers.

    • RobertC

      “So when the MCB says that “Muslims from all backgrounds have stood united in condemnation at these horrific crimes” …”

      Are they talking about the cartoons?

      • Paul Austin Murphy

        You never know what the MCB really means. It’s either soundbites (“community cohesion”, “diversity”, “rights”, etc.) or outright lies. Sometimes it’s both mixed together.

        • Helen of Troy

          No: the Left saw to that, about 15 years ago, more or less. LABOUR is the root of Britain’s worst evil. The Left sees nothing, understands nothing but blinkered and ignorant emotion.

          • redsquirrel

            i’m not sure they count as left anymore but labour is certainly disgusting.

  • BillRees

    Although he is no longer a member of the English Defence League, I have great sympathy with Tommy Robinson.

    Check out this video of him speaking to the Oxford Union a few months ago. He certainly isn’t spouting “thuggish opinions”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyzGayfI400

    I think all our politicians should be made to sit down and watch it.

    • NOYB12345

      I agree. We keep hearing “not all muslims …” but it’s acceptable to stereotype and stigmatize virtually anyone on the right.

    • greggf

      Yes Bill, but Tommy Robinson was wrong to quit the leadership of his street campaign EDL. He has joined the Quilliam group, which describes itself as a “counter-extremism think tank” but is nothing more than an establishment front to neutralize opposition to the Isla***ation of Britain.
      Because Quilliam will, like Merkel, all the other pro-Isl** stooges in Britain and the echoes of craven cowardice earlier in the face of fasc**m (prior to WW2), betray our judeo-christian values for the pretext of a miserable compromise with the theocrats.
      Let’s hope EDL can continue an effective street campaign – we’re going to need it!

      • cremaster

        There is the possibility that he was forced to leave the EDL and join Quilliam as part of his early release deal from his ILLEGAL imprisonment.

        • wordfromthewise

          Robinson was hitting too many nails on too many heads and the moslem-appeasing British govt didn’t like it. After all, the Tory party receives huge donations from the Saudis AND WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS FOR ALL THOSE DAMNED MOSQUES? It isn’t ‘asylum seekers’. How could they afford them; they are just the forerunners of the invasion. Moslems got to the bottom of Spain in the 1500s before the Christians rebuffed them and now they are trying to take Europe again. BTW, Morris dancing comes from MOORISH, i.e. moslem!

  • TRAV1S

    When the Ayatollah put a Jihad on Salman Rushdies’ head back in the 80s, that had nothing to do with Islam too. What was the body count over the Satanic Verses again? How can we trust our politicians when they continue to lie and lie about Islam?

    • Helen of Troy

      The truth is out. Now it’s time to put pressure on the imams. They’re not the victims, they’re the incubators of oppression. Either they learn our way or they get out. That’s it.

      • bionde

        The mayor of Rotterdam, a Morroccan born Muslim has it right. Assimiilate or fuck off. I am surprised they haven’t issued a fatwa against him.

        • wordfromthewise

          They probably have.

  • Sean L

    What have these EDL people ever done that is reprehensible? They’ve certainly got nothing on you when it comes to their anti-Islamic rhetoric, at least judging by their online presence. Tame indeed compared to a Rod Liddle column. I don’t get it. Why shouldn’t they voice their opinion publicly? Otherwise what’s the point of your vituperation? What purpose does it serve if no one says or does anything?

    Why slag off the only people in public life who represent your point of view? I wouldn’t mind but the burden of your argument is that mainstream politicians are deluded about Islam! Yet in the next breath you slander the one publicly visible group that comes anywhere close to expressing a viewpoint remotely resembling your own. I see from their Facebook page they also have Hindu, Sikh and black members. So don’t warrant the routinely rehearsed “white supremacist” canard either. Perhaps I’m missing something, but can’t see how they’re any less *reprehensible* than your good self. . .

  • gw

    The Muslim Council of Britain was started by the Muslim Brotherhood (the same group that contains the bloodthirsty murder group Hamas and a host of other undesirables) so why would anyone give credence to anything that say?

  • Diggery Whiggery

    Of course the only reason we care about the screeching and violence is because so many are amongst us.

  • ghostoflectricity

    First Saturday, then Sunday. Jews warned the world, that, like the proverbial canaries in coal mines, they would be only the first victims of Islamist extremism and triumphalism. But in the decades after the founding of Israel, Christians and other non-Muslims stood by (or joined their Muslim brethren) when the Jews were expelled en masse from their ancient communities in North Africa, the Levant, and elsewhere in the Muslim-majority world, their property appropriated, the few remaining murdered or “executed” on trumped-up charges of being Zionist spies. Now, with few Jews left to attack, Islamist fury focuses on the Christians. For many Jews in the West aware of this history, it is sometimes hard to work up a lot of sympathy. For example, we are aware, and appalled, by the current violence against the Copts of Egypt. We are also fully aware of the Copts’ record in joining with their Egyptian Muslim brethren in the virtual destruction of the millennia-old Jewish community of Egypt in the decades after 1948.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    Muslim community leaders are so resourceful at finding excuses for not taking responsibility for the crimes done in Islam’s name. The EDL, is in no meaningful way a Christian organisation.

  • Marcus

    Good article.

    But if this is an intrinsic problem with Islam as you suggest:

    1. Why has this suddenly become such a problem?
    2. What has changed?
    3. Did we just not publish crap, unfunny and offensive cartoons from French Communists before and now we do?
    4. Do you know about The Indian Rebellion of 1857 when the Indian Muslims thought they were using pork fat on the bullets ?
    5. What did the Indonesians do about this at the time? And what about the Iranians?
    6. Why could you wear miniskirts in Egypt and Iran in 1970 and not now ?

    Food for thought.

    • RobertC
    • laurence

      And excellent, interesting questions. 1. and 2. in particular need answering. With regard to 6, I remember five or so years ago talking to a Libyan chap who said that people were pretty free in Tripoli to live how they pleased. Women dressed how they wanted and were not compelled to walk around in a black four man tent. I wonder what the Tripoli of today is like?

      • Marcus

        Face covering has massively increased. I recently asked a Libyan.

      • Damaris Tighe

        The difference is between authoritarianism & totalitarianism. In Ghaddafi’s Libya & Assad’s Syria you could have a fairly free lifestyle as long as – politically – you kept your nose clean. But under Islamic totalitarianism, every aspect of life is controlled.

    • FedUpIndian

      1) This has not “suddenly” become a problem – the problem was always there except that as long as the Muslims were murdering Hindus, Buddhists and others in the Third World, the West was only too happy to sit on the sidelines or even take the side of the Muslims.

      In 1971, somewhere between 300,000 and 3 million Hindus were murdered in what is now Bangladesh by Muslim Pakistanis. During the 60’s, Nigerian Muslims starved and killed millions of Christians and animists in Biafra. Slavery of non-Muslims is still endemic in Sudan, Mauritania and other places in Africa. But the US and the UK supported Pakistan, Nigeria and other Muslim countries for strategic reasons and did not give a damn about the death toll of brown and black non-Muslims.

      The only reason why you guys are now aware of what Islam is all about is that they are now killing white people in Europe and the US. Had they killed 12 cartoonists in India or Sri Lanka, you would not have given a sh*t.

      2) How did Muslims acquire the ability to attack Europe and the US? First, we have sent these OPEC countries, most of them Muslim, some $20 trillion since 1973. This has given them the money to export their terror and religion all over the world. Second, the US was stupid enough to get in bed with bin Laden and co in Afghanistan. Once the Muslims saw they could kill white people too, it became a habit.

      3) The final piece of the puzzle is the moronic immigration policies of the West. In your ignorance and arrogance, you learned nothing from our terrible history with Islam or even your own history with Islam, and decided to import millions of these savages into your once civilized countries. If you needed immigrants, you could have gotten Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Hindus etc. but we look different and we are not white. Whereas Arabs and even most Pakistanis can pass as white, so you preferred to import them into your countries.

      Congratulations. You made your bed, now lie in it. Welcome to the world we brown and black kaffirs have had to live in for the past 1000 years.

      • redsquirrel

        I was with you all the way, but Pakistanis can pass as european? what? there is 1.5 million indians in England. Totally agree the writing has been on the wall for hundreds of years but we didn’t choose muslims over indians and black people. We opened the door to everybody whilst fervently hoping that everybody is the same deep down and we can all get along. Big mistake.

        • FedUpIndian

          Well, Imran Khan and Benazir Bhutto could pass as white people, as can most Pashtuns. But you have a point when it comes to the UK. I was thinking more about the rest of Europe which is importing Muslims from Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Morocco and other countries in North Africa and the Levant. when they could have invited Vietnamese or Chinese – they work hard, have high IQs, mind their own business, and have great cuisines to boot.

          I just don’t understand why European leaders act the way they do, or why the man in the street has still not woken up to the threat of Islam. If I were in Europe, I would vote for UKIP, Swedish Democrats, PVV, Mariane Pen etc. Why don’t more Europeans do this and put an end to this suicidal policy? Enoch Powell was right. This will end in rivers foaming with blood, but I am no longer sure whose blood that will be.

          • redsquirrel

            Because everybody is terribly frightened of seeming rude. It’s a british thing. Coupled with white guilt maybe. You wouldn’t mind running for PM would you? it would make the whole thing a lot less awkward.

            The only people running parties that are out there enough to say these things have in the past been unelectable. Marine le Penn seems pretty good. We don’t have anything as credible as that who are addressing the issue. Nige might be our savour but he is too busy fussing about Europe and polish people ( who in my experience are all ace)

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Ask what is in it for them. What could possibly warrant replacing your own culture with a foreign culture.
            Answer. Mass unrest promoting the need for a one world order. The EU wants an EU state police force.
            When our streets turn into anarchic war zones the totalitarian police state will emerge. It has already started.
            Soldiers in the streets of Belgium and France.
            This will only speed up as the establishment is worried that people are waking up.

      • Rather worried

        Thank you for this piece. Let all moderates stick together whereever they are.

        • FedUpIndian

          We’d better. As Patrick Henry said, “From now on, gentlemen, we either hang together or we will more assuredly hand separately.” The good news is that people all over the world are finally waking up to this threat and the more courageous ones are articulating the problem clearly. Even the Buddhists are now forming trans-national alliances to defeat the Islamic menace.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Thank you for your reply to my question about the sufis. Unfortunately it has been deleted, probably because you used the word ‘s*vage’.

        • FedUpIndian

          I wondered where it disappeared to. I must remember to Guardian-ize my posts in the future to avoid deletion (I am much more circumspect there)….

      • Marcus

        “The only reason why you guys are now aware of what Islam is all about is
        that they are now killing white people in Europe and the US.”

        This statement is one of your central tenants and is completely wrong.

        1. The Crusades (~300 years of conflict with Islam)
        2. The great siege of Malta.
        3. Europeans fought and were enslaved by the Ottomans for about 400 years. (even as far as Vienna)
        4. The siege of Byzantium.
        5. The First world war where we fought Turkey.
        6. The Moors in Spain and El Cid

        I could go on and on. The West fighting Islam is nothing new FedUpIndian.

        Yet this new wave of Jihad engenders more solidarity amongst Muslims from Indonesia to the Caucuses.

        You have some explanations but you not all of them. You haven’t explained this aspect.

        • FedUpIndian

          I am aware of the Crusades and the struggle of Christian Europeans from Spain to Vienna against Muslim invaders.

          But my impression is that most Europeans are unaware of this history because they either have not been taught this history, or they are taught a politically correct version is which the Crusades are seen as an act of religious aggression against Muslims (the Karen Armstrong version of history).

          In India, we are taught a sanitized version of history too but the Islamic threat looms over us constantly – the partition riots, the genocide of Hindus in East Pakistan, the Mumbai terrorist attacks – so few people other than extreme leftwing ideologues are taken in by multiculti.

          I get the impression that this is not the case in Europe but I don’t live there, so I willing to be corrected.

          As for why the new wave of jihad inspires so much joy in the ummah, Osama bin Laden put it very succinctly: “when people have a choice between a strong horse and a weak one, they will naturally prefer the strong horse.” Islam is now seen as the strong horse by the masses foaming at the mouth in Lahore, Mogadishu and Cairo. Christianity is seen as the weak horse – effeminate, sissy and decadent.

          Unless non-Muslims stop acting like eunuchs, this latest round of jihad is just the start of a new wave of Islamic conquest.

  • Jeff Thompson

    What a vile, despicable, cowardly article. As per usual, any criticism of Islaaaam, it had to be countered by an unwarranted, unnecessary, ill-informed attack on one of the only groups that oppose Islaaaam. There was absolutely no need for it, but it seems like it’s a default obligatory afterthought to every such piece.

    PS : I’m not a member of the EDL, NF, BNP or any such group. I just sympathise with them when attacked for nothing. The author should have left these attacks to the usual suspects : MPs, police chiefs, the UAF etc.

  • laurence

    Excellent piece, Rod. Pat Condell’s most recent video makes much the same point. The ‘all-about-peace’ shtick is beginning to be beyond parody. Presumably evidence provided by the senses does not count for these loons. Everywhere this ghastly, backward ‘faith’ obtains is an ill-run, festering, fifth-world $hithole. It’s a religion of misery and death.

  • http://churchandstate.org.uk LolaHeavey

    Talk is cheap frankly. I am expecting a Muslim PM in a decade. Then what … more talk?

    • EHGombrich

      Michel Houellebeqc just gave the answer to that.

  • runningdog

    I can add nothing to your commentary, Mr Liddle, other than to say that I wholeheartedly agree with you.

  • Doug

    Good article, but now what? What are we as a society, we as western civilization, going to do about any of it?

    More denial, more funding for “outreach” programs, more promotion of Real Islam (TM, Pat. Pending)? What serious, humane, measures can we take to tackle the problems?

  • Liberanos

    All muslims know that the extreme is entirely mainstream. Until we acknowledge this, we shall continue according them the equality they do not deserve and the respect they aggressively demand.

  • Kevinr

    That article is breath of fresh air to those of us who wonder why other journalists and politicians can’t see the blinking obvious. Well said Rod Liddle

  • Damian Hurts

    The EU has allowed radicals to invade our territory.

    Exit the EU now, cost it what it may!

    • Damaris Tighe

      Hello dildo.

      • wordfromthewise

        You should think of emigrating because Britain WILL LEAVE THE EU SOONER RATHER THAN LATER. You filthy mouth isn’t welcome.

    • Benthos

      Damian, I am sorry to say but the radicals living in this country were welcomed long before the EU became so pernicious.

  • davidshort10

    Liddle’s column is the first one I read in the Spectator, followed by Toby Young unless it is the month when Aidan Hartley or Rory Sutherland appears but I think we’ve had enough about Muslims and probably fat people too. Hope he can find other subjects. Muslims get far too much attention anyway.

  • Freeworld

    We are getting very close to the ‘nice nazi’s’ there was no such thing albeit some undoubtedly worse than others and it was that latter group with the consent of the formerut were the ones calling the shots, likewise ‘moderate Muslims’ what does that mean they seem so unable to articulate any hostility to those in their community who are so called ‘extremists’ I simply don’t believe that our politicians believe their own words when saying nothing to do with Islam, what utter rubbish and if ever there was needed some evidence of politician lies and spin, well there it is

  • Kevin T

    I agree passionately with 99% of this but the English Defence League was merely saying what you’re saying.

  • Sean Raymond

    The Charlie Hebdo debate is simple – we must always be allowed to take on bad ideas, because if we don’t then a vital cultural checkpoint will have been lost & with it the opportunity presents itself to tyranny. The well established mainstream Islamic precept of deeming any criticism of Islam as being a crime, & therefore deserving of punishment, is a perfect example of a bad idea which simply has to be challenged – it has no place in a non-Islamic, pleuralistic & secular Western society t- this was what Charlie Hebdo demonstrated. Indeed, the followers of this faith have much to blame for this collision of values because it was their failure, in 1400 years, to not only tame Islam but who actually endorsed & propergated many of the odious ideals it espouses – their response thus far illustrates the fact that it falls to the West to take it on – and we must.

    This has everything to do with Islam & what is being revealed is this Islam’s abject inability to function within a modern, liberal & democratic country. Make no mistake about it – this is serious, the boundaries of our very freedoms are at stake – Charlie Hebdo knew that. We must not submit to blasphemey laws of a religion which deems it to have the right to shape what our societies can be by telling us what we can & can’t say & can & can’t see – that is complete & utter capitulation of our enlightened liberal values to tyranny.

    Compromising my right to express myself freely is something i’m simply not willing to give up to the followers of a faith that compromises absolutely nothing. I hope that we all take a more principled stance to this than the media & hold on to the belief that Western ideals are something worth fighting for. I do not wish to live in a culture of fear & intimidation which IS repeatedly backed up by a hair trigger response to violence everytime the followers of this faith feel ‘offended’. You know something – that offends me.

    • Beth

      Something has changed in the past 100 years, though. The population of Egypt was 13 million in 1920; it’s about 90 million now. Same all over the middle east and north africa – syria broadly 2m to 20m; iraq 3m to 30m etc. etc.
      By way of contrast, Britain’s population in the same period grew from about 50m to 60-odd million (about 8m of whom were born elsewhere).

      Islam can change – but first, it has to see change as being in its own interest. I agree with the author – we have over-indulged the Muslim community, leading to its belief the west will absorb its burgeoning population overload, even change to accommodate it, indefinitely.

      The kindest thing we can do for the common people of the middle east is to leave no doubt about it: Our values are non-negotiable. Our immigration will always be controlled, and weighted in favour of skilled and professional immigrants. Each time we prevaricate, we delay the moment of truth-facing for Islam: There is no way back. The only way forward is for middle eastern countries to begin to modernise their economies, and train, employ and better care for their own.

  • John Andrews

    Come on Rod, you know they are peace loving at heart. What do you want to see? Pope Francis calling the 10th Crusade?

  • Johnwillettssocialist

    I am amazed this article was published. Perhaps we have turned a corner. Well done Mr Liddle.

    • wordfromthewise

      My thoughts, too.

  • amac

    Why is this view never ,ever articulated by our cowardly elected leaders or put on TV.. why is it I have to dig out articles online or find the likes of Pat Condell on YouTube to eloquently voice what almost everyone thinks.

    • Trofim

      They know it, but are afraid to say it aloud. Isn’t that obvious?

  • edlancey

    Is it too late now to say, “Sorry, we made a mistake, why don’t you all f# off back to Hovelistan” ?

    • redsquirrel

      Why not? We could promise to keep paying their jihad seekers allowance for 3 years if they go, or it stops now if they stay.

      Of course labour would say “but but, that would give the impression that british people don’t want islam in this proud and diverse country”

      bingo. Please leave, and take owen fecking jones with you.

    • EHGombrich

      Just wait and see how things develop. We havn´t seen anyting yet in Europe.

  • 70sgirly

    Outrage and fury and screaming an violence is what they do. Islam promotes ignorance and “ignorance is strength”.

    • Helen of Troy

      They’re really big apes on two feet in checkered cloths.

  • bob

    A lot of good points here. I think it should be said that there are a lot of Muslims who do not follow this bloodthirsty ideology – Sufism for example is entirely peaceful. But no surprise these people are persecuted by their more hard line muslin ‘bretheren’. I think the problem is that while many Muslims are decent peaceful people, there is a sizable number of people who subscribe to uncompromising wahabi principles, it’s not.just.a.few.extremists

    • FedUpIndian

      “Sufism for example is entirely peaceful”

      This is a common misconception.

      1) Ahmad Sirhindi was one of the most important sufis.

      Quote “Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the benefit of Islam.”

      http://politicalquotes.org/node/57627

      2) Mohammad Tabari was another famous sufi.

      Quote: “Killing unbelievers is a small matter for us.”

      3) The janissaries were the storm troopers of the Ottoman empire. They were sufis of the Bektashi order.

      4) The majority of people in Pakistan (!) claim to be sufis.

      Case closed. It is time to retire this nonsense that sufis are peaceful.

      • Damaris Tighe

        I’ve been told that the older generation of Pakistanis were sufi, but the younger generation are wahhabi & that is the reason for their ‘radicalisation’. Is there any truth in that?

        • FedUpIndian

          It is true that many Pakistanis have changed from being sufi to being wahabbi after the 1990’s but this is not as significant as Islamic apologists in the West make it out to be.

          I could tell you a long story but in the interests of time, let me just do this – Google for “Ilm-ud-din” or “Rangeela Rasool” and read about it, and it will tell you everything you want to know about these “peaceful sufis.” Short version: a Hindu publisher published a book containing the more controversial stories about Muhammad from the hadith, a Muslim youth Ilm-ud-Din stabbed him to death, Ilm-ud-Din was defended in court by Jinnah, later to be leader of Pakistan, he was found guilty and hanged, and he was buried as a martyr in Lahore and his funeral was attended by all Indian Muslim leaders like Jinnah and Iqbal who praised him as a “shaheed” (martyr for the faith). His tomb today is a major pilgrimage site for Muslims! This is basically Charlie Hedbo but back in the 1920’s, long before Iraq, Afghanistan, Mossadegh or whatever other excuse these Western dhimmi reporters trot out to excuse Islamic fundamentalism.

          In 1971, long before Osama and Afghanistan, those sufi Muslim Pakistanis murdered between 300,000 and 3 million Hindus in what is now Bangladesh (then East Pakistan). The Nixon regime sent weapons to these savages even as they were committing genocide, because Nixon liked Yahya Khan, the thug in Pakistan, and needed his help for his overture to China (read the “Blood Telegram” by Gary Bass).

          The main difference between sufis and wahabbis is an internal fight about saints and tombs – sufis worship at the tombs of saints while the wahabbis believe that is idolatry. But when it comes to killing kaffirs, there is no difference.

      • Antoine Bisset

        Not to mention that the ranks of the janissaries were formed by the forcible recruitment of young Christian slaves, either captured or from within the Ottoman Empire. Something for our grandchildren to look forward to.

        • FedUpIndian

          Good point, thanks.

          • Antoine Bisset

            You’re welcome!

    • edlancey

      “Sufism for example is entirely peaceful”

      unless you are the back passage of a young lad.

  • The Masked Marvel

    The MCB most certainly do get the point, Rod. The reason for their existence is to convince politicians and broadcasters to make that comparison and get them to call you a racist for writing articles like this.

    So let’s make them accountable to their own rules, shall we? According to their own logic, we can now say that the majority of Muslims in the world are not proper Muslims and are perverting the religion. See how they come back to you on that.

  • Stanley Broadbent

    ‘…. got our approach all wrong.’ Come on Rod, the BBC bookers are gonna strike you off the Question Time rota, with that sort of talk. You’ll be writing about these so called no go areas next. I don’t recall this type of enlightenment during your tenure as Editor of the Today programme, even though the same sort of thing was going on in world, during that time. Any chance you could let us in on when the tipping point of thinking changed for you?

    • wordfromthewise

      I would much rather see Rod Liddle on BBC’s Question Time than the heinous traitor and moslem supremacist, Mehdi Hasan. How cheated he must feel at this time when moslems are the most protected species; he only had daughters!!

  • Perseus Slade

    All this make perfect sense.
    The question is why the powers that be are in total denial about it.
    Are they stupid, cowardly or up to something?

    • http://www.ajbrenchley.com/culture-blog/ Helen of Troy

      They think that if they ignore it it might go away, like an unsightly pimple. It won’t. There will be acne, ear to ear.

      • Perseus Slade

        hehe

  • Conway

    Time to be as outspoken as the Dutch mayor!

    • wordfromthewise

      And Mr Geert Wilders.

  • Joseph Flannagan

    The islamic world seems oblivious to the fact that muslim countries are consistently the worst offenders in every reputable statistical survey of things such as life expectancy , infant mortality , political instability , religious persecution , illiteracy , access to healthcare , women’s rights , employment , disease ,security , violence , poverty and every other negative aspect of human existence . The simple fact that muslim children are now the ONLY one’s still contracting Polio goes above their heads and they claim vaccination is a plot against islam. They have contributed NOTHING of any value to the world for many centuries in science , medicine , mathematics , physics , chemistry , astronomy etc , while the non believers have developed the most creative , inventive and productive society in human history. Antibiotics , anaesthetics , sterile surgery , organ transplants , safe blood transfusion , CT and MRI scanning , microscopes , telescopes , radio , TV , computers , internet , telephones , electrical power , jet engines , combustion engine , rocket engines , DNA , spectacles , trains , cars , photography , film , video , sound recording , radar , periodic table and HUNDREDS of other life changing inventions and discoveries as well as cures and treatments for virtually every disease known to man !. And yet they want to impose THEIR values and THEIR ideology in the belief that it is in some way SUPERIOR than our’s . I know where I would like to stick sharia and everything that it stands for !.

    • JSC

      I agree with a lot of what you’ve just said. In particular, the effect Islam’s supremacist philosophies have on its followers belief that they and their moral philosophy / religion are not just superior to Christianity or Judaism (who they view as deceived fools) or western secular enlightenment philosophy, but that Islam is “The Supreme Philosophy of all time, everywhere in all ways” and they’re chosen to police the views of the entire world, to keep us in line and to make sure we damn well know it.

      We need to start calling these people what they are: supremacists. They’re every bit as obnoxious as the racial supremacists that came before them.

      • Joseph Flannagan

        There is also the fact that over time EVERYTHING changes – even rocks , mountains , coastlines , landscapes etc. But NOT islam. It is irrevocably stuck in the 7th century and tied to a mindset and culture that may have had relevance then but is massively out of tune with today’s world. Even today islamic ” scholars ” – and it pains me to call them that – have issues dealing with modern concepts like insurance , modern finance / banking , stocks and shares , organ transplants , vaccinations , mobile phones etc , compounded by the fact that there are literally dozens of different schools of thought within islam and it has no central hierarchy. So islam frequently ends up with scores of ” scholarly ” , and often contradictory , fatwas on just about all these subjects.

        • cmflynn

          None of this matters compared to the fact that in every mixed society Muslim women have more children than non Muslims and they have them at a younger age. The future of the uk will be Islamic unless some very vigorous policies are implemented to prevent it.

        • Asim

          what a load of rubbish that is all i am going to bother saying, you guys are hatred filled goams meaning loonies of the highest order

          • JohnLobo

            Asim I am afraid that if the only response you can give to a reasoned argument, albeit one with which you may disagree, is the reply that you have just given, then that shows the utter poverty of your own position.

          • Asim

            Johnlobo the baptist, i wrote the above after answering 5 other questions so really couldnt be bothered writing anything else,i don’t really have that much spare time. a basic answer that will fall on dead ears was fine, not like anything but agreement with the above article would suffice for readers of the spectator

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I expect you would be unable to come up with anything better than such a glib answer. Disprove anything I have said !

        • wordfromthewise

          Paedo-Mo only said what he said to improve his own life style. Of the 67 tribal wars he was involved in, he started 66 of them!

      • Jody Taylor

        The supremacist philosophies of Islam are no different to “Mein Kampf”. Both are ideologically extremist positions which have the potential to poison and destroy societies BECAUSE PEOPLE TURNED A BLIND EYE.

        Remember Hitler wanted to create the ideal society with ethnicity preserved in favour of white, healthy Germans. Drill down to Islam and you’ll find the same for those cultures; this is why they constantly bang on about a Caliphate.

        Those who want to hold hands and deny any links between Islam and modern events are no better than Neville “Peace in our Time” Chamberlain. And we’ll pay the same price Neville’s naivete cost last time.

        And where are the femi-nazis when it comes to liberating women from the shackles of nations full of dumb, aggressive and medieval misogynists?

        • Asim

          what a load of rubbish, it seems all the idiots are on this site. not even one reasonable voice and if you dig deeper seems to be the same names over and over again
          there is more about hatred and war in the bible and old testament, the quran is the only book that talks about peace and respect for all mankind, that all men are equal

          • Peter Williams

            pity you lot dont practice it

          • m parker

            By what you have written, it is more than obvious you rely too much on accepting as fact what you have been taught, when a reading of the interpretations of the Qurans verses by the respected Muslim commentators, such as Ibn Kathir,and Ibn Abbas gives the true meaning of them.
            Islamic “peace” is when all accept Allah as the only god to be worshipped,and submit to its rules. Any respect and equality due then is only to be shown to fellow Muslims who are allegedly the believers in the “true”faith ,all Non Muslims are to be fought against first to bring them into submission, and “feel themselves subdued” as per the Quran and “prophets” example.

          • labambagia

            Hard to believe that a man of 54 shagging a girl of 7 is considered the prophet, a man of God. tells a you a lot about their god … and believers. Beware of false prophets Someone said …

          • Safy

            Errrm what religion are you talking about and which prophet because that is not Islam for sure and not our prophet… unless you’re making a wild guess about this info.. read about it first before guessing.

          • zz

            Excuse me you narrow minded idiot.
            1. Muhammad was 50
            2. AROUND THE WORLD many men AROUND THAT TIME AND BEFORE were marrying girls under 10 and they would consummate the marriage when the girl was in her teens.

          • BILL ROB

            And you know that for sure because ???? “someone told you”, or “someone wrote it down somewhere”, or really you were there all the time and you actually are:-
            “Muhammad Prophet of Islam” !!!
            Now you’re just making up lame excuses for sexually depraved behaviour, otherwise classed as rape and paedophilia in the most extreme case.
            We live in todays world by the law of the land not religious laws.
            If we are to live in peace we will have to put behind us everything that we know in our hearts was wrong about our historic values and behaviour. We need to express everything that we know is required for a safe and decent world to live in.

            We need to join together to rid this world of evil beings who are just interested in seeking power and domination through the installation of fear and vulnerability in those who are lost and seeking some purpose within this life.

          • Safy
          • gerald myhill

            Asim…idiots? Really? Is it also true there are no gay muslims?

          • Peter Thorogood

            Do you support the paedophile prophet Muhamed ?

          • Josh

            Love in the Quran:-

            The word ‘LOVE’ appears about 45 times in the whole of the Quran mostly in expressions such as ( in love; love of wealth; love of life; love of Allah; love of woman; love of self; love of other believers or love in the abstract; 2:177; 3:31, 103, 119;5:54; 9:23; 19:96; 38:32 etc).

            The Quran, unlike the Bible does not encourage love of strangers or any others who are not ‘believers in Allah and his prophet’.

            In the Bible on the other hand, this word is mentioned at least 155 times in all its forms and manifestations. In the form of loving the STRANGER (Lev.19:34; Deut10:19) & NEIGHBOUR (Lev.19:18), the Quran is silent.

            The ordinances on how well to treat the stranger and neighbour are over 150 times in the Bible while none are mentioned in the Quran.

          • labambagia

            The rise of Islam could be the punishment for our unchristian lives as it has been the case of the Assyrian against the Jews. We need to go back to be more christian and raise our voices against people who say that all religions are the same. there is only one religion the other are cults. There is only one God the God of Israel and Christians. Christ warned against false prophets and we should read the Book of Revelations more often so that we can understand what is going on.

          • labambagia

            Equal to women as well?

          • Faiza

            Im sorry to say but Islam is equal to woman. Woman in Islam are allowed to work. the first prophets wife Khadijah (r.a) was a trade. she worked. You think women are oppressed in Islam. No you are wrong people who think that you are wrong. women in Islam is not oppressed they have rights and freedom and are equal to men. in the western world woman had to fight for there right to have votes whereas Muslim women already had that. That shows equality between men and women in islam doesn’t it? Women are known as gems in Islam. Woman are equal to men.

          • JohnLobo

            But if a woman says she has been raped it requires four MALE witnesses to substantiate her accusation. And in the unlikely event that that this happens, she is still likely to be condemned for having sex outside of marriage. Please tell me if I am wrong and provide the proof.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Then why do you mutilate them and cover them up in bags? Most people display gems for their beauty whilst you keep yours indoors and under the cosh.

          • Faiza

            Okay put it this way. if you have a gem its rare, its beautiful and nobody has it except you. and you know if you wear it outside there is a possibility of it being mostly likely being stolen. Would you not keep it an box or bag to protect the gem from being stolen?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Hilarious.
            All that shows my friend is how insecure muslim men are with their women. Maybe you should treat your women better if you are worried they will run off with someone else. The muslim green eyed monster.
            They are a possession to you rather than your equal.
            Beside it is only in islam where women are stolen from from families and other men.

          • Faiza

            Okay so would you rather have your legs to be shown where guys would just look at you with lust instead of respecting you. They look at you objects. wouldn’t you rather be looked at with respect instead! Its not Muslim men its all men o dont blame it on Muslims. Muslims are not stolen away from society. its a cultural think where they stay with the in laws but they visit there family. some Muslims may not even live with there in laws so please don’t say there stolen away cause we are not. green eyed monster? What are you talking about.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            1. I have self control, which is probably something that could be said for the majority of western men, because we’ve been brought up with boundaries. I’ve seen how muslim men look at women who are not covered. The problem is with your kin not mine. So yes it is a muslim problem.
            2. Women are not respected in islam, certainly not in sharia. That is why they have to walk five paces behind their husband while dressed in a bag. And their testimony is worth a fraction of a man’s. So yes it is a muslim problem.
            3. You are right, forced marriage is not at all prevalent in islam. Oh yes what about the non muslim women and girls who are STOLEN from their families, usually after husbands, fathers,brothers and uncles have been murdered. So yes it is a muslim problem.
            Do you get what I’m talking about?

          • Paul Brown

            Asim, sorry but yours is NOT a moderate voice.
            The Quran is a book of peace, and I know that Christians are classed as ‘people of the book’. With the Talmud and the Bible, also being books of peace.

            Sadly, Mohammed was a man of the sword, as in, convert to Islam, or die.

            Not on his own, granted, but then you sight the Bible,

            old testament, but ignore the new testament, trying to make a point? misinformed? just bloody minded?

            Remember also, Islam is a ‘new’ religion, 600 years younger than Christianity and 2-3000 years younger than Judaism.

            I will end with two comments, the first, “be careful what you wish for”, the second from Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto after the (failed) attack on Pearl Harbour, “I fear we have woken a sleeping giant”

          • wordfromthewise

            It’s always the moslems that are the most ARROGANT, RUDE and CRITICAL when, if it wasn’t for them and their ridiculous obeisance to a non-existent ‘god’, THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE TO LIVE AND CO-EXIST IN.

            CO-EXIST WITH MOSLEMS? Ha, ha, ha, ha!!!

          • wordfromthewise

            Qur’an:8:12

            “Your Lord inspired the angels with the
            message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks
            and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each
            of their fingers and toes.” “So wound their bodies and incapacitate them
            because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

            Qur’an 8:59

            “The infidels should not think that they
            can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can
            muster so that you may terrorize them.”

            Qur’an 4:168

            “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah
            will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to
            dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”

            Qur’an 33:64

            “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers
            [whom he defines as Christians in the 5th surah] and has prepared for them a
            Blazing Fire to dwell in forever.

            Qur’an 5:51

            “Believers, take not Jews and Christians
            for your friends.”

            Qur’an 60:4

            “We reject you. Hostility and hate have
            come between us forever, unless you believe in Allah only.’”

            Qur’an 5:86

            “Those who reject Islam and are
            disbelievers, denying our Signs and Revelations – they shall be the owners of
            the Hell Fire.”

            Qur’an 9:29

            “Fight those who do not believe in Allah
            or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and
            His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are)
            People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax
            in submission. Pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state
            of subjection.”

            Qur’an 5:35

            As for the disbelievers [previously
            defined as Christians], if they had everything on earth, two times over, to
            give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Doom, it would never be accepted
            from them. Theirs will be a painful torment. They will desire to get out of the
            fire, but they shall not be released from it. They shall have an everlasting
            torture.”

            Qur’an 5:37

            “The [Christian] disbelievers will long
            to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will
            be an enduring torture.

            Qur’an 5:73

            “They are surely disbelievers who
            blaspheme and say: ‘God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah
            (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily
            a grievous penalty will befall them – the disbelievers will suffer a painful
            doom.”

            Qur’an 5:77

            “Say (Muhammad): ‘People of the Book, do
            not overstep the bounds in your religion, or follow the people who erred and
            led many astray. Cursed are the unbelievers among the Children of Israel by
            David and Jesus…. They do vile things, allying themselves with the infidels so
            that Allah’s indignation is upon them and in torment they will suffer for all
            eternity.”

            Qur’an 3:56

            “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will
            punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one
            to help or save them.”

            Qur’an:47:4

            “So, when you clash with the unbelieving
            Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and
            wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind
            them firmly, making them captives. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue
            carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to
            Islam.”

            Qur’an:2:190

            “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause
            with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in
            Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is
            made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam
            is propagated. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who
            tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a
            hypocrite.”

            Qur’an:33:26

            “Allah made the Jews leave their homes
            by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made
            you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country
            you had not traversed before.”

          • Benthos

            Thats the thing though, its the new testament now.

          • Asim

            the bible would be the new testament, the quran is unchanged proven to be so for 1400 since its inception unlike the bible which has had more revisions than anyone can keep track off. its a translation of a translation thats been translated into several languages thats been revised by a king who had a dream or wanted to change the book for his own purpose and needs

          • Benthos

            I don’t profess to be a scholar in the bible or the quran. However I have spent a while travelling around the Middle East. I would say that most people I met were very nice people wanting to the best for their families under the heel of their medieval faith.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            The koran is NOT unchanged !!!. The third Caliph Othman had ALL existing copies of the koran destroyed by burning EXCEPT his own. How does anyone know what his personal , political or religious motivation might have been ??. And of course there is NO way to verify what was in the destroyed versions. There is only HIS word for the claim that it was done for a good reason and not to further any ambitions he had to increase his control over islam and the wealth it generated !!. Also I would ask how YOU account for the disparity between the text of the Duri , Warsh , Qaluun , Hafs which are all Arabic versions in use TODAY in different. There are literally thousands of textual differences between the various versions – which would be IMPOSSIBLE in an UNALTERED book !!!.

          • Asim

            your lack of knowledge is amazing. the third caliph was usman, and he was a companion of the prophet, alive in his time, your making out like he was someone that came about years after. he did not order the burning of the quran, he arranged the quran into one book, rather than being how it was revealed or written as chapters. in simple terms organised the quran into a book. a hafiz is someone that memories the quran, and rather than rely on thousands of hafiz to preserve the quran, usman the 3rd caliph decided to have it all in a book. now if u look anywhere in the world all the qurans are identical, they were preserved. so your nonsense about having the books burnt is rubbish, he organised the quran into the book we know, every chapter had to be verified by over a 100 ppl from different areas to confirm the authenticity, so rather than have lots of small chapters about he ordered everyone to have it as one book. now morons like you fail to understand this because the old testament the new testament all have been changed countless times, altered amended and added to, all but the quran

          • Joseph Flannagan

            It is not denied that the Bible has had alterations !. What IS denied is that the koran has been altered. This is patently untrue or Othman would never have needed to destroy all other versions by burning – and this DID happen and is well documented. You have also completely avoided addressing the textual discrepancies between the various versions in use TODAY in different parts of the world.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            That old nutshell. Trot on fella. Nothing to see here.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Do you actually believe what you write?

        • Safy

          Yes I agree with you and History just proves it as well!! All the crusades, world war 1 and 2, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the genocide of native Americans, the vikings, the hundred years wars between England vs France and vs Spain. All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way.. and so much more WAS ALL DONE BY MUSLIMS.. bravo guys you have totally outsmarted yourselves!!! 😀 Stop being ignorant racist people and read your own history before pointing a dirty finger at others.

          • The Wiganer

            There was a Muslim nation in WW1 (Ottomans). There were Muslims fighting in WW2. They were WORLD wars not Christian Wars.

            Muslims were colonising Africa and using slavery long before the europeans got there. It was the UK that gave most of these nations their independance. It was the the UK that abolished slavery.

            Native americans were killing each other long before the evil europeans turned up. How awful that we stopped the Aztecs cutting people’s hearts out.

            The Vikings? The followers of Odin? What is going on in your head?

          • Safy

            What history books are you reading? Obviously not the ones we know since if you read them you’d know that the UK only left the countries they invaded with extreme poverty and after all their goods and resources have been drained. What independence are you talking about? Those countries fought for it please go back to history. Muslims have been around for 1400 years and other religions for longer including Christianity.. now tell me how well have you done since we have been terrorizing the world for all those years? I haven’t said that Muslims are the best I just pointed out that no one is clear from terrorism and violence over history. We should not sit around pointing dirty fingers at each other blaming each other for all the crap going on over the years, instead we should all unite and improve the world and educate people and fight poverty to make a better future for our kids. Stop the racism all over each starting from their own homes.

          • JohnBoy

            Most of the slave trade was carried out by Arabs,your islamic brothers.

          • RoseDrew

            Slavery has existed always. Vikings. Romans. Africans, yes, but Celts. Everyone, everywhere. The difference between was (and now still is, sadly) practiced and the Chattel slavery of the Americas & Triangle Trade is that one was doomed merely based on phenotype. One could never escape and one’s children were born into it.

          • wordfromthewise

            You can answer the hate verses I quoted above from the koran too. When Britain INVADED, not ‘evaded’, other countries, IT WAS TO MAKE THEM BETTER AND AT THAT TIME TO BRING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST TO THEM, TO SAVE THEM FROM DEATH.

            It wasn’t done to degrade them, like islam has done to Afghanistan, which was formerly a nation of peaceful Buddhists, or Bangladesh and Indonesia.

          • m parker

            But only Muslims are justified to use violence to propagate their faith which is legitimised in their “holy “book and “prophets” example. No other faith apart from Islam, is justified to use violence to further its teachings.

          • labambagia

            Wherever Britain invaded Britain brought infrastructure and civilisation and behaved with honour and still does. Whenever Britain returned power to the ‘natives’ the natives were (and still are) unable to keep the level of civilisation enjoyed under british rule. Ask yourself why. I am not british and I have no shame in saying that the true British people are of a superior make and I am sickened seeing the ungratefulness of other countries and the way the Britain is now full of ungrateful ignorant immigrants and their moronic offsprings destroying the country from within having first taken advantage of a british democracy they did not help build and waving ‘their” british passport whenever they need legal aid or benefits. talk about biting the hand that feeds you. If you dislike Britain so much return to your country of origin as it really must have been so much better to leave it in the first place.

          • ouldbob

            Safy, the slave trade in Africa, as a trade, was started by arabs who later became muslims, and black africans who would raid other tribes and take slaves to sell to the arabs, yet long before the advent of Islam, these same arabs were selling slaves into europe as well as to other arabs. Slave trading is as old as prostitution and has much in common with it. The islamic faith advocates enslaving non-believers as well as murdering them if they refuse to convert, and murdering them if they become apostate. Islam is a backward mediaeval religion, and the problem with it is as with other religions, those who take it literally. There is too much pick and mix to make a point. Sadly Christians do the same and Christian extremists often advocate over the top policies – but I have yet to find a Christian fundamentalist who wants to murder moslems. Any religion which is based on fear and intimidation is not of God. These people are HERETICS – all of IS are equally heretics. All the muslim fundamentalists and all the hate preachers are heretics and it is time we called them such. They are heretic in Islam

        • JohnBoy

          Not to mention Female Genital Mutilation.

          • RoseDrew

            Us feminists are involved BUT the changes must come from within the societies that practice FGM on helpless small girls. Some white folks can’t helicopter in and bring the change.

          • zz

            Look you uneducated idiot. FMG is an AFRICAN tradition which unfortunately some Muslim countries have followed. It is against their religion to circumcise girls.

          • BILL ROB

            You say it is against their religion, ok so how comes other Muslim countries have followed this barbaric tradition,WHY if Islamic teachings are against FMG ????

      • zz

        Please guys stop being so stupid. It is not Muslim people’s fault that their countries are run by corrupt governments and clerics who don’t allow them to develop and give them many human rights and all that. Also many African countries are the same. What you said about vaccination is not true, quite a lot of the wealthy Muslim countries give out free education, healthcare, interest free loans and welfare for poor families. Here in Britain the education is not so good too and in America.

        • JSC

          Surely you jest. Surely.

    • Rather worried

      This points are often made (sotto voce) by secularists or would-be secularists in the Muslim world. If they West wants to get anywhere, it should see that they exist and support them.

      • JohnLobo

        The Moslem world is in desperate need of a Reformation.

        In the early centuries of Islam there was a considerable amount of enlightened thinking based on the works of Aristotle. Islamic scholars such as al-Kindi, al-Farabi, and, later, ibn-Rushd were influenced by Aristotelian thinking.

        This philosophical thinking (9th to 12th centuries) was massively distrusted by more traditional thinkers such as al-Farabi (who suggested that knowledge is inferior to faith) and ibn-Taymiyya, who argued that logic is based on the faculty of human reason, which is necessarily inferior to divine revelation. Their attacks on the Aristotelians eventually finished off the more enlightened thinking and Islam has bared moved forward intellectually since then.

    • rodger the dodger

      It’s funny. When I was last in Istanbul, about five years ago, that ‘1001 Islamic Inventions’ global propaganda/Dawah tour had hit town, and was a big hit, naturally.

      I attended, and in it, they claimed muslims invented practically everything you listed above.

      Great stuff. Dr. Goebbels/Edward Bernays would have been seriously impressed…

      And as an aside, there’s always the claim that Neil Armstrong said he heard the call to prayer when he was on the moon…yeah – RIGHT! It just doesn’t end, and gets ever more preposterous.

      • Joseph Flannagan

        That particular exhibition attracted a lot of ridicule and derision for obvious reasons. Nobody however seems to question why any invention or discovery by a muslim ( and there are precious few ! ) , is called an ” ISLAMIC” discovery. It could even be argued that anything invented by a muslim is IN SPITE of islam rather than because of it ! There are no claims about Jewish science , Christian inventions or Hindu achievement . This is in complete contrast to muslim’s claim that despite tens of thousands of attacks , beheadings , rapes , abductions , bombings , executions and atrocities there is NO such thing as ” ISLAMIC ” terrorism ! .

        • VORTEX

          well, lets start from the beginning, Islam isn’t a 20th century religion, its a more than 1400 years old religion. why we didn’t hear about such “terrorism” during th last 1300 years?
          why did the world progress peacefully during the Islamic civilization? why did the jews prosper during that time n we never heard about killing jews or christians , on the contrary they were protected by the Islamic empire.
          the thing is, u r the only reason for the killing n the suffering in this world . your countries raged a war against our countries , especially in the last 300 years, you took our lands, n wealth, killed our people, raped our women, sent us back 3000 years.
          you’re still controlling our countries by putting your puppets as our leaders, humiliating us in all ways, and if we say a single word or defend our selves u call us terrorists, forgetting that you’re the real seed of evil, who cause the death of 50 millions in WW2? who exterminated 20 million of native americans? who slaved more than 80 millions africans n ship them to amaericas, 70% died before they reached th land. who killed more than a million in Iraq? who killed hundred of thousands in Palestine? who killed million of vietnamese? who raged the crusades n killed muslims n jews n even christians of Byzantium? who dropped the A bombs on Japan? who killed 7 millions innocents in Algeria? 1.5 million of them died in less than 7 years? you’re the plague of this planet, this world shall never heal unless you’re vanished.
          dare u calling us and our religion terrorists.

          • m parker

            “its a more than 1400 years old religion. why we didn’t hear about such “terrorism” during th last 1300 years?”

            Islam expanded from the Arabian peninsular by invading armies, they conquered Persia,India,North Africa, Spain and many others,following the example of their “prophet” and his alleged “revelations”

            “on the contrary they were protected by the Islamic empire”.
            They were only “protected” if they paid extortion money called the Jizya,which is what it is in reality. These so called “protected” peoples were given 2nd class citizenship in their own counties, who were not even allowed to build, or re build their places of worship, or proselytise their faith, amongst many other discriminatory rulings.

          • labambagia

            watch ‘what the West needs to know about Islam’ It’s on youTube

          • m parker

            Thank you, but I watched it some time ago.

          • VORTEX

            wrong again, wherever Islamic empire extended it had taken prosperity and civilization, we both know that, in north Africa and spain, they built the 1st universities they built the most beautiful civilization ever, while th rest of europe were drowning in the age of darkness until their necks, all citizens were equal, jews muslims or christians, u lied when u said they couldnt practice their beliefs, they did,all is documented and the tax they had to pay as “jizya” muslims payed it as “zaqat” its the same thing , so stop lying, stop pasting the craps that media fed u, n stop being hypocrites.

          • m parker

            “all citizens were equal, jews muslims or christians, u lied when u said they couldnt practice their beliefs, they did,all is documented and the tax they had to pay as “jizya” muslims payed it as “zaqat” its the same thing” ,
            Ibn Kathir disagrees:
            http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2566&Itemid=64
            As you well know,zakat is not the same, zakat is Islamic “charity “tax all Muslims contribute willingly to further their faith.Jizya must be paid by the Dhimmah if they want to keep their lives in a subjugated state.

          • m parker

            “allcitizens were equal, jews muslims or christians, u lied when u said they couldnt practice their beliefs, they did,all is documented and the tax they had to pay as “jizya” muslims payed it as “zaqat” its the same thing” ,

            IbnKathir disagrees:

            http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2566&Itemid=64

            As you well know,zakat is not the same as Jizya, zakat is Islamic “charity “tax all Muslims contribute willingly to further their faith.Jizya must be paid by the Dhimmah if they want to keep their lives in a subjugated state.

          • VORTEX

            I’m afraid ur wrong again, all muslims have to pay ZAQAT n it isnt charity , charity is called SADAQA.
            non muslims have to pay JIZYA exactly as Muslims have to pay ZAQAT.

          • m parker

            “u lied when u said they couldnt practice their beliefs,”

            I never said they couldn’t practice their beliefs, they can, but only under duress in certain discriminatory conditions.

            “non muslims have to pay JIZYA exactly as Muslims”

            You conveniently omit the reason why the Jizya has to be paid in the first place.
            As Ibn Kathir points out:

            Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace

            Allah said, until they pay theJizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in
            defeat and subservience,(and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated
            and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced andhumiliated.

            Are Muslims made to feel “disgraced,
            humiliated and belittled. “when they pay zakat?

            No, they are not, then why should those who do not believe as Muslims be made to feel “disgraced,
            humiliated and belittled” and be discriminated against?
            There is compulsion in the Islamic faith after all.

          • peter

            Zakat

            Zakat is the compulsory giving of a set proportion of one’s wealth to charity. It is regarded as a type of worship and of self-purification. Zakat is the third Pillar of Islam.

            Zakat does not refer to charitable gifts given out of kindness or generosity, but to the systematic giving of 2.5% of one’s wealth each year to benefit the poor.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/practices/zakat.shtml

          • HAQ KHAN

            Haha, you are totally uneducated. Slavery is well documented as an Islamic tradition but we didn’t “hear” about the wars amongst Muslim nations and others or intra Muslim wars because “WE” weren’t alive and watching TV then. It is clearly and historically documented, try reading something factual for once. Remember The Prophet Mohammed himself was a great warrior. He had to often stop the slaying so that there were people left to enslave to carry the spoils or to be left behind to tend the lands he conquered.

          • labambagia

            Simply switch on TV and see today sex slavery in Muslim countries

          • VORTEX

            whoz the uneducated one here, its clear that u dont read or cant even read, u just like to remain under the hypnotizing effect of the media, the prphet didnt launch wars against other nations, all th wars he fought was a defensive one, or maybe u want them to give their necks for the kill?
            if you read the holy Quran you’ll c that all verses about war came to allow the muslims to defend their selves, lands and faith.
            concerning slavery, if you had read the holy Quran before , (which Im sure u didnt /as u said u just eat what ur media feed u) u would understand that Islam cameto free people from slavery, thats why if a muslim commit a sin, big or small then he has to free slaves as a deed of repent .. EX: if a muslim makes an by the name of God to do something, then he doesnt do it, then he has to free 10 slaves.
            that happend 1400 years ago, on the other hand if we read ur bloody history, n Im just talkin about the last 200 years, all of your countries was built on slavery, hundred of millions of Africans, Asians, native Americans north n south, racism n haterd… even nowaydays, ur nations stinck of discrimination n racism, u cant heal u will never heal… its in ur filthy gene, only one way to cure u… that gonna happen soon.

          • Josh

            And if we say a single word to defend ourselves, you call us racist…yet we let you have refuge in all our countries (Muslims take up 70% of all refugees in the world), but if we come to your countries, you kill us.

          • wordfromthewise

            In your 1400 year-old-cult, 270 MILLION MOSLEMS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY….OTHER MOSLEMS! Don’t start on us.
            Go home if you don’t like the West. No one asked you to come.

          • VORTEX

            go home??? I’am home.
            that’s stupid, because Islam isnt a race or nationality, it’s a religion, n there r thousands of british muslims that r probably more british than u.
            btw, I dont live in ur “‘west” 😉

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Vortex – a whirling mass of sir.
            I would suggest hot air.
            Defensive wars my ar5e. If they were defensive how did islam expand outside of medina so quickly?
            How was North Africa and southern Europe and India a threat to Islam?

          • JohnLobo

            “who killed more than a million in Iraq”

            Well Saddam Hussain for one.

          • g1lgam3sh

            Sunni muslims for another.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            WW1 , WW2 , Native Americans , Hiroshima, Vietnam etc were NOT religious wars. The LAST Crusade finished more that 800 years ago – so hardly relevant to today’s situation ! If Jews EVER had protection under islam it was a dhimmis and NOT as equals and they are CERTAINLY not safe anywhere near muslims today !!. You deny islamic terrorism for the last 1300 years and yet islam was spread by hundreds of battles against non muslims in wars , invasions , conquests , and by threat and intimidation right up to the Ottoman Empire in the 20th century. That includes the Armenian genocide by the Turks a hundred years ago.You also ignore the Pakistan / East Pakistan ( now Bangladesh ) war , the Iran / Iraq war , Libya / Chad war , Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait , the Turkish invasion of Cyprus , the Indonesian invasion of East Timor , Yemen civil war , Iraq civil war , Lebanon civil war , Sudan’s civil war , Somalia – and the list goes on . ISLAM is the plague you describe – Sunni kill Shia , Shia kill Sunni , BOTH kill Ahmadis and ALL kill Jews , Buddhists , Hindus , Christians , Sikhs , homosexuals , adulterers , blasphemers , critics and anyone perceived to have offended your precious sensibilities.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            WW1 , WW2 , Native Americans , Hiroshima, Vietnam etc were NOT religious wars. The LAST Crusade finished more that 800 years ago – so hardly relevant to today’s situation ! If Jews EVER had protection under islam it was a dhimmis and NOT as equals and they are CERTAINLY not safe anywhere near muslims today !!. You deny islamic terrorism for the last 1300 years and yet islam was spread by hundreds of battles against non muslims in wars , invasions , conquests , and by threat and intimidation right up to the Ottoman Empire in the 20th century. That includes the Armenian genocide by the Turks a hundred years ago.You also ignore the Pakistan / East Pakistan ( now Bangladesh ) war , the Iran / Iraq war , Libya / Chad war , Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait , the Turkish invasion of Cyprus , the Indonesian invasion of East Timor , Yemen civil war , Iraq civil war , Lebanon civil war , Sudan’s civil war , Somalia – and the list goes on . ISLAM is the plague you describe – Sunni kill Shia , Shia kill Sunni , BOTH kill Ahmadis and ALL kill Jews , Buddhists , Hindus , Christians , Sikhs , homosexuals , adulterers , blasphemers , critics and anyone perceived to have offended your precious sensibilities.

          • VORTEX

            Let’s talk numbers, how many people did muslims kill?, how many people did ur evil seed kill? ofcourse its incomparable, admit it , ur the cause of misery in this planet, you’re not just killing people, but whole planet, u kill in diffrent names: race/religion/ “democracy” / church / wealth …. all the conflicts between muslims u mentioned earlier happend because of u, everybody knows that ur feeding the revolutions for ur own benefits, u support dictatorships all over the world, but once u c a bigger benefits n their disappearance u sparkle a revolution. u r murderer by nature, killers u cant harmonize with this universe thats why ur destroying it, the same way u couldnt harmonize with africans, asians, natives all over the world. n dont forget what W bush said: its a crusade war. just answer me this : who killed more people n destroyed this planet, Muslims or U?

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Given that non muslims are around 80 % of the world’s population then numerically non muslims MUST have killed more. HOWEVER on the other hand given that muslims are only 20 % of the world’s population then PROPORTIONALLY muslims have been more destructive and killed more people than non muslims. It started with your prophet and his successors who led armies throughout the middle east , killing all the way , and this pattern continued right up to the Ottoman Empire . The Armenian genocide killed nearly 2 million . Up to 200 million Africans are estimated to have died as result of the islamic slave trade. How many millions died in the Iran / Iraq war ? ,the Pakistan East Pakistan war , the partition of India , the Yemeni civil war , the Indonesian invasion and occupation of East Timor , the numerous battles of the Mughals in India , Sudan’s civil war, Lebanon’s civil war , Yemen’s civil war , Darfur , Algeria’s civil war , Afghanistan’s various civil wars , Turkey’s war with the Kurds, Indian Kashmir civil war in the 1980s and MANY more conflicts.How many Sunnis are killed by Shia ??. How many Shia are killed by Sunnis ??. How many Ahmadis are killed by BOTH ?? I am not even counting the more recent casualties in Yemen , Libya , Syria , Somalia , Sudan , Egypt , Iraq nor am I counting Lockerbie , Westgate Mall , Bali , Beslan school , Mumbai , London Underground bombs , Madrid train bombs , 9/11 , Volgagrad , Xinjiang and THOUSANDS more bombings , beheadings , executions , crucifixions . So PLEASE don’t try and paint islam as some kind of benign and non violent ideology that even gives a sh*t about human life or about innocent civilians .

          • VORTEX

            u still didnt get do ya? when I said U or non muslims, I refer to ur race, the europeans n the americans so called WEST, n I guess ur less than muslims in population, yet u r a living disaster. beside 90% of the last 500years conflicts n wars are cause by U (the wild savage world) weather directly or indirectly. everybody knows that ur governments r feeding the conflicts n revolutions here n there, everybody knows that ur supporting dictatorships just to eliminate them when it suits u.

            I dont deny there r bad muslims, but u created such people, the way u treat them, the way u humiliate them, the way u attack their countries n kill their families, the way u cry hypocritically for 12 son of the bitches who did bad things, n never cry for thousands n even millions of kids who died because of Israel , USA n France all over the world.

            u raged a war against US, in all its possible ways, what do u expect? n if we ever defend our selves u call us terrorists.

            let me tell u the story of my country for instance, Algeria, the barbarian french frogs attacked us n took our lands in 1830, for more than 132 years, they did surprise satan his self with their cruelty, they killed more than 8 millions of innocents, when they first arrived, more than 80% of Algerians were well educated , they could read n write n do maths, thats in 1830n in 1957 more than 80% of Algerians was illiterate, we even fought against Nazis for the sake of our freedom, but the french frogs as the rest of u r not honorable, they didnt keep their promise, so we started the revolution, he french frogs used all the forbidden weapons against us, erased whole villages with napalms, killed 1.5 million in just 7 years, the funny thing is when the Algerian rebels attack back they called us terrorists, n when the french bastards use napalms its called fighting for peace.

            what drive me crazy, is even after we had our independent they couldnt leave us alone, after few years from the independent they couldnt get back to rule Algeria, but in diffrent way, by using their puppets n dictators , to making us suffer even more.

            what u called earlier algerian civil war, it was but ur france frogs brothers who cause it, they cant just stop hurting n distroying, so wakeup , the same thing is happening in most of muslims countries. if muslims r violence against u its because of what u did to them not because of Islam, if Vietnamese and the north koreans people hate u , its because of what u did to them, not because they r Buddhists, if the south americans hate u , its also because ur pushing ur filthy noses in their countries, n supporting rebellions against their leaderships.

            you’re a virus, u wont resist forever, nature gonna win in the end.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joNTLaGE0wU

          • Joseph Flannagan

            I thought in your world there are only believers and unbelievers. So why distinguish ?? I count ALL the muslim countries that are killing whether they are Arabs . Africans , Indians , Pakistani , Afghan or Asian . I do not differentiate. Your country has been independent for the last FIFTY TWO years or two generations. The fact that it is a mess and that Algerians are still killing each other is ALGERIA’S problem and nothing to do with France. You are using the standard muslim practise of always blaming others for islam’s shortcomings and NEVER just accepting the responsibility or accountability for islam’s problems. When the French left Algeria it had roads , railway , schools , hospitals , electricity ,

          • VORTEX

            we’ll get a life when u get ur stincky heavy breaths out of our air, france didnt left a thing but misery , ignorance n death, also it left it monkies n trators to rule this country with a steel hammer n fire whip, cant believe u lie on ur self that way !! but no wonder, u bear the same sick ideology u n ur ancestors, france brought us civilisation, like ur ancestors brought civilisation to native americans, like u brought it to india, by stealing tones of gold, ur nothing but criminals, robbers , killers, rapists… u made the whole world suffer for centuries, this is exactly why kids r starving in Africa, because of ”u”, how do u expect our countries prosper while ur doing ur best with conspiracies n using ur traitors to achieve it. how can we build when ur destroying?
            its really sad that u couldnt blame even a single time france n th other bastards for what they did to this world, but I guess its in ur genes …. the evil genes…

          • Joseph Flannagan

            You are pathetic . You are also obsessed with hatred for France and instead of getting on with your life and trying to improve anything you can ONLY look backwards and blame a foreign country for somethings that happened generations ago. Maybe Algeria just returned to what it was before the French occupation . As I said – get grip , do something constructive and grow up !!. African kids are starving because of greedy , corrupt and incompetent leaders. Zimbabwe was the leading food producer on the continent UNTIL Mugabe took over and now it is a failed state with poverty , starvation , corruption and violence. Remember that Ireland , Hong Kong , Singapore , Canada , New Zealand , Australia , Gibraltar and the USA were ALL under the British Empire but THEY have thrived and prospered because they moved on and don’t whinge and whine like you guys do !.

          • VORTEX

            it’s seems u dont understand my very simple english, we’re still suffering from france, since 200 years, ur countries r the one who design n protect our so called leaders. france is controlling Algeria, how do u expect me to ignore that!!!! how do u expect us to move on when countries like france r destroying every single brick we settle!?
            Im not talkin just history, Im talkin whats happenin now in th present…
            the so called “west” is the reason of the failure in this world, ur governments feed the conflicts in our countries, who plot n provide weapons n strategical assistance for the rebels? who gave weapons to Taliban? who assists rebels in Colombia? who pays hundrred millions of $ as ransoms to terrorists? who support Israel terror against innocents in palastine?
            about the “thriving” countries u mentioned earlier, its really funny cause ur mentioning countries that r ruled directly or indirectly by ur seed of evil, whoz ruling in australia n new zealand? is it the natives or ur people who went there n took their lands? the same thing for usa, whoz rulling usa? a bunch of zionists n Illuminati, do u deny that W bush is a blood relative to ur so called queen?
            why u didnt mention Turkey , Qatar, Malaysia , UAE .. among the countries who thrived? or is it because its muslim countries? u r really despaired rnt ya? 😉

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Innocent a in Palestine…… This gets better.

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Your rants become increasingly desperate with each response. You are unable to provide a logical reasoned and sensible argument so you resort to a screaming match like a woman would. Are your eyes so tightly closed that you cannot see there is a world beyond Algeria and that the world INCLUDING FRANCE has moved on . Your brain is stuck in a sad time warp and I feel sorry for you because the hatred that islam encourages has found a great home inside your head!.

          • VORTEX

            I do hate france n its bastard sisters, because we’re still suffering from it, thats human n thats natural, the bad thing is when people like u show their hypocrisy pretending they r something which they not, would u love ur family killers? would u love ur women rapists? would u love ur whipper? if yes, then you’re big liar, if no then ur as hypocrite as your brain washed people ..
            Im desperate that a guy like u would understand or feel what the rest of the 80% of the world population feel… despite I gave u many historical n logical evidences… yes Im desperate n feel sorry for ur bleached brain.
            france n the other viruses moved on our own bodies, countries, wealth n honor.. thats exactly what a plague does … we’ll move on when ur alike move on from simple monkies to a thinkin human beings.

          • Derek Lambada

            This is ridiculous. Germany and Japan were completely ruined after WW2. They rebuilt themselves into successful tolerant societies within a generation. People need to stop blaming the past and actually do something to solve their problems themselves, it could happen in 10 years if people just pulled together and were honest about what the real problems were.
            Why did France even go there in the first place? Largely because Muslim slave raiders had been targeting their citizens for the previous 200 years.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Careful fella. The pressure is building, you might explode

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Interesting you brought up India. I’d keep quiet about that if I were you. 80 million and counting.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            India – 80+ million Hindus slaughtered over 3 calipha. You lot did that all in your own.

          • VORTEX
          • g1lgam3sh

            The Mughal Empire slaughtered 200 million all on their own.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            How exactly do muslims harmonise with their host cultures when they arrive.
            That’s right terror and intimidation.

      • alima khan

        Did you know it was first revealed from the Qur’an that the world is round not flat. And you can research that its true.

        • Marie Mist

          You are wrong, the koran said it was flat and not round.

          Quran was 88:20 “wa ela alard kaifa sutehat”

          Verse 79:30

          You obviously don’t know your koran well!

          I have studied the koran so I am not false but the koran is!

          • wordfromthewise

            BRILLIANT!!!

          • alima khan

            I don’t know what u have studied but go and check your facts again.

          • alima khan

            If you think the Qur’an is wrong then why waste your time studying it

          • John

            We don’t ‘study’ the koran, we read it.

            And we do so for the laughs.

          • JohnLobo

            In order to make up one’s mind about whether it is right or wrong one has to study it.

          • Marie Mist

            I was a Muslim that is why!!!

        • m parker

          The Quran also reveals “the sun sets in a spring of murky water” 18.86

          • chimoio

            it also reveals that human life begins as a clot of blood stuck to the female back bone…Oh, and whilst I’m at it .a well at a place called zamzam, full with menstrual rags and dead dogs, amongst other things, was safe to drink from because allah said so……would have put LOL at the end but it ain’t funny.,

          • alima khan

            What????

          • chimoio

            Abdulla {b mas’ud ]
            reported that allas messenger said, “verily your creation is on this wise,
            the constituents of one of you is collected for 40 days in his mothers womb in the form of blood, after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days……
            then it becomes a lump of flesh then forty days later alla sends his angel to it”.

          • alima khan

            Yeah I knew that. So what we be live in that. Its nothing to do with article

          • chimoio

            of course you did! that’s why you wrote “what????
            and now that I have shown you that it’s in the book of violence and “scientific stupidity”, you say “so what ? I still believe it”
            because you have to! otherwise you admit that the whole book is full of such stupidity, poor old alla never saw modern medicine coming did he ?
            get free of it Alima , begin in your heart, as I know how dangerous it is for you to visibly or verbally express any doubt….
            for according to what it also says in the the book,
            the other “believers” then have a duty to kill you.
            nice religion of peace you got there,dontcha think??

          • wordfromthewise

            It also says that man, it’s never women first, is it, was made FROM A CLOT OF BLOOD.

        • wordfromthewise

          You LIAR. Your stupid, ignorant ‘clerics’ still declare that the world is flat. They also say that women driving cars causes EARTHQUAKES!

          • alima khan

            I’m a Muslim I’ve never heard that

          • alima khan

            And my mum drives

          • JohnLobo

            Does she drive in Saudi Arabia? Where this “pronouncement” comes from, and where these clerics can have you sentenced to 1000 lashes for “insulting Islam”. The “insulting” being purely their own interpretation.

          • wordfromthewise

            Although I see upon checking I got the stories confused they are still all ridiculous:

            Here are the links: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/19/women-blame-earthquakes-iran-cleric

            And: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/29/world/meast/saudi-arabia-women-driving-cleric/index.html

            Moslems are also told that the sun revolves around the earth: http://www.thecommentator.com/article/4822/top_saudi_cleric_says_true_muslims_must_believe_the_sun_revolves_around_the_earth

            Qur’an 79:30

            Many Islamist apologists attempt to deflect criticism that the Qur’an promotes the mistaken belief of a flat earth by the word dahaha used in Qur’an 79:30, commonly translated as ‘spread’ or ‘stretched’.

            Arabic: والارض بعد ذلك دحاها

            Transliteration: Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha

            Literal: And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it.

            Why don’t you abandon this total brainwashing rubbish of slam and join the rest of the world in the 21st century? islam is a mess.This is the only life you’ll get so be peaceful and live it. Islam doesn’t promise you a heaven after death. Christianity and Judaism have nothing much to say on the subject either.

        • John

          Yes dear, and the koran predicted the moon landings more than 13 centuries before they happened.

          It’s just that you need a secret decoder ring to read about it.

          Are you worried about the backlash that will inevitably follow next week’s muslim terror attack?

        • g1lgam3sh

          Eratosthenes would beg to differ, but what would he know, he only measured the circumference of the earth a millennium before the koran existed and is regarded as the founder of geography.

          I am constantly surprised at the levels of sheer ignorance your ilk displays constantly.

        • Tqwt

          The ancient Greeks knew the world was round. Things like ships masts coming over the horizon before the ship. Shadows down wells, the Earths shadow during an eclipse etc.

          Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth to within 16% in about 200BC, 800 years before it was revealed to Muhammed.

      • wordfromthewise

        It will carry on getting more and more preposterous until we call their bluff and throw them out of our countries.

      • labambagia

        yeah they even have a website claiming the origin of Islam in the Bible … Maybe in a couple of years they will rewrite the Gospels as well… who knows maybe Jesus was Muslim after all

    • sebastian2

      Here’s a contrast perhaps worth considering:

      On one hand Israeli high school students are perfecting an algae growing system started in Kibbutz Ein Shemer so that algae farms can made in communities in Africa to wipe out malnutrition in areas where desertification claims land and livestock.

      On the other hand, ISIS prepares to behead innocent journalists; Boko Haram mutilates and enslaves abducted girls; and the total number of books translated into Arabic during the 1,000 years since the age of Caliph Al-Ma’moun to this day is less than those translated in Spain in one year.

    • Asim

      what a load of crap, read about the islamic innovations in medicine maths etc, algebra was named after al-gabar.

      first surgeons were muslim, they invented stitching, coffee was discovered by muslims, first university was founded by a muslim woman, opitcs, the first toothbrush, the crank connecting rod system that founded everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine, hospitals were founded by muslims
      source:
      http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/29/muslim.inventions/index.html

      google muslim inventions and you will see that during the dark ages the muslim world was far ahead, architectural inventions, social welfare the list in endless.
      just proves how much of an idiot you are

      • Cebosty

        That’s the problem and the point. Majority of Muslims make their points only with aggression or insults. Firstly, Greek and Roman invention and civilization preceded what you are talking about, but have the Greeks or the Romans blamed anybody? The point is that the aggressive part of the doctrine of Islam must be changed. Life changes and people change for the better; nature surely changes a matter even against its will. So a compatible modification of Islam must be made to enable them live with other tolerant religions.

      • chimoio

        yeahh that’s why they produce so much of worth to the planet and it’s inhabitants,there’s erm dates, egyptian cotton sheets err what else err curry?then there’s….. help me out here Asim genuinely stuck,
        can you think of anything? I can think of loads of completely negative things but not to much that’s positive,
        you know, things that are of real benefit to mankind right now.
        (don’t say al gabra we’ve already had that !}

      • wordfromthewise

        If the moslem world was so far ahead, why are all moslem countries dead end holes today?

        • alima khan

          Who said there dead holes? Yet you ae using our oil

          • wordfromthewise

            I don’t have a car so I am not using ‘your’ oil.

      • John

        Why stop there? Did you know that Muslims not only invented the Nobel Peace Prize for Victimhood AND the inverted widget, they also perfected the art of the suck-and-blow.

        A 1,001 Muslim inventions and It’s just amazing!

        • Asim

          john did you know your mother invented the asshole of son with no brains child?? the first woman to give birth to a boy through her asshole and he was born with no brain so they used some old shitty one from a bigot that was killed whilst having sex with his horse.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            And there you have it. He has no more fight in him.
            The end

      • Joseph Flannagan

        What an absolutely feeble and pathetic response! . Much of what you mention in medicine and math etc happened CENTURIES ago ! – as I stated . Saying that muslims ” invented ” coffee is ludicrous beyond words – then you have to accept that CHRISTIANS ” invented ” Oxygen and Gravity without which muslims would be unable to breathe and they would float away ! – That is how ridiculous YOUR argument is. Stitching was around in the STONE age and was in wide use in Europe , Africa and the Americas long before islam.

        • Asim

          please, you mean stitching using threads that would kill most of the patients. i’m talking about the start of modern stitching.
          coffee as in the first people to grow it commercially and consume it, coffee

          • Joseph Flannagan

            The Egyptians used sutures on the mummified remains of the Pharoes . A detailed description of a wound suture and the suture materials used in it is by the Indian sage and physician Sushruta written in 500 BC. The 2nd-century Roman physician Galen described gut sutures. ALL long before islam !!

          • Asim

            people were cooking cleaning eating living dying long before any major religion, Judaism is about 2500 odd years old Christianity is about 2015 old give or take, Hinduism is about 2000 years plus. people stitched before islam but the medical stitching that was made from animal intestines was invented by a muslim. the point it who cares who invented what when, the point being made above is that islam has not contributed anything to anything. but you guys forget the quran had not been disproved or found to have mistakes or errors unlike the bible or modern day torah

          • Joseph Flannagan

            Medical stitching from animal gut was used by Galen in the 2nd century – HUNDREDS of years before islam. Get your facts straight. ONLY a system that is bankrupt of ideas , creativity and inventiveness would not care about who invented a particular item. The koran is not unchanged but it is TOTALLY irrelevant in a modern society where it’s content is outdated and has been superseded by a vast range of NON ISLAMIC knowledge and advancement.

          • Asim

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html

            read that read that none of the quranic verses have ever been proven to incorrect to science not one, unlike the old and new testament. your challenging a 1400 year old book and still losing because your nothing more than an idiot who think the internet has the answers. none of your views are based in reality.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Look over there………. Sorry you missed it.

      • Joseph Flannagan

        You are correct about the first university being founded by a muslim BUT in the ENTIRE 57 membership of the OIC there are now only 600 universities – in TOTAL. Europe meanwhile has hundreds of tertiary level institutions in each country and the USA has more than 2500. THAT is what is wrong with islam. As always it is blamed on EVERYONE else but muslim apathy and islamic backwardness. Look at the figures for illiteracy in muslim countries especially for females and THEN tell me that islam has anything to offer.

        • Asim

          look the rate of rape, divorce and single women in the modern world and tell me that being 100% able to read a welfare cheque has enriched everyones life.
          being a muslim means you have to be literate, since arabic was not the native tongue for most, in islam its compulsory to obtain an education. i do agree that the over the top islamic clerics have turned that into meaning something else. but which country are you referring to when talking about being illiterate?? most muslim countries have hundreds of universities.
          we all know how many good universities out of the 2500 there are in the usa. education is just for the rich in america or for those who want to be burdened with debt for the rest of their lives. 200k plus in debt before finding a job that pays 30k means most will be in debt for most of their lives. some education system where less then 5% control all the wealth whilst the rest just meak through life working to pay of mortgages and school fees basic food. a bonus is being able to afford a simple holiday, almost like modern slavery, just a different name put on top

          • Joseph Flannagan

            The female literacy rate in Pakistan is 42% , Yemen 46 % , Afghanistan 12% , Sudan 63%, Tunisia 80% , Senegal 29 % , Mauritania 51 % , Chad 25 % , Banagladesh 53 % , UAE 81 % . The divorce rate in Egypt is 30 % , UAE 46 % and divorce rates are rising in all islamic countries. One difference is that a muslim does not need to divorce wife number one to marry a second wife . Name me ONE muslim country that has hundreds of universities – Egypt has only 65 universities , Saudi Arabia has 71 , Indonesia 207 , Pakistan 175 and considering the population size that is an appalling indictment !. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that in Saudi Arabia , UAE , Kuwait , Pakistan , Afghanistan , Sudan etc that the wealth is NOT also in the hands of the political and business elites . Look at the Gulf royals and look at the poverty in the streets and the souqs behind the big hotels and the showpiece skyscrapers . And if you think that working to raise a family and pay for a home is modern slavery then you are very sad and deluded .

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Most of the rape in the UK seems to be being carried out by muslim grooming gangs at the moment. Is that another great islamic contribution to society?

    • Safy

      Yes I totally agree with you and History just proves it as well!! All the crusades, world war 1 and 2, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the genocide of native Americans, the vikings, the hundred years wars between England vs France and vs Spain. All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way.. and so much more WAS ALL DONE BY MUSLIMS.. bravo guys you have totally outsmarted yourselves!!! 😀 Stop being ignorant racist people and read your own history before pointing a dirty finger at others.

      • Joseph Flannagan

        See my reply to VORTEX . Also I would add that the Atlantic slave trade was INFINITELY shorter and less cruel than the MUSLIM slave trade which lasts to this day and slavery is still commonly practised in muslim North Africa ( Sudan , Chad , Mauritania etc ) . Slavery was only made illegal in many muslim countries within the last 50 years unlike the west where the first anti-slavery legislation was passed in 960 A.D. in Venice. Secondly I would point out that when the British Empire was wrapped up over the mid 20th century that every country was left with functioning roads , railways , airports , schools , electricity , clean water , sewage treatment , hospitals , communications etc . These have been allowed to deteriorate by successive administrations due to greed , corruption , mismanagement , incompetence and a disregard for the ordinary people. And FINALLY do you seriously expect me to accept that any torture , humiliation carried out in colonial times is somehow worse than what is TODAY dished out by ISIS , Al Shabab , Al Qaeda , Taliban , Hamas , Hezbollah and the dictatorial leaders of most of the world’s muslim nations ???

    • labambagia

      yet we send 90% of our humanitarian aid to muslim countries so that they can keep breeding out of control and then we give them passports so that they can come and teach us how much better than us they are. maybe should we stop aid to muslim countries they would start being responsible for themselves and after all if their superior philosophy won’t help their god will.

  • judy e

    …”Everywhere you look in the Islamic world there is outrage and fury and screaming and violence.”…

    The problem isn’t “radical” islam. It isn’t islamic “extremists”…the problem is simply ISLAM. What a nice world it would be, if we didn’t have islam to deal with. Their incessant demands, their constant whining…always the victim, these moslems..always the victim. Strange how they go silent when it is time to be critical…why don’t we hear any rage when there are honor killings? Or when someone innocent is beheaded…or at the increase of FGM in Europe?
    No islam?
    KNOW PEACE!

  • steven wallis

    Brilliant article, why can’t our national papers print the truth?

  • Richard

    Imagine if they were honest about it. Imagine if they put pressure on Islam.

    The response from Muslims would be denial, and then attack. The figures who accused Islam of problems would be demonised (brown people could point fingers at white people, always a successful enterprise). There would be pressure from Islamic states abroad, and tit-for-tat diplomatic incidents. Perhaps our oil supplies might even be threatened. Attacks on British citizens both abroad and at home would ensue, with inevitable deaths. The EU would accuse Britain of discrimination and an abrogation of the Human Rights culture. . There would be penalties. The UN would get involved, maybe even calling for rebukes or even sanctions (there are enough Islamic states and their supporters to make this possible). There would instantly be retractions, and apologies, and the game of bluff – that we can actually have some say over our country – would be exposed as a sham.

    The response from the indigenous people would be equally vehement. This would work in tandem with the Islamic response, ratcheting up the pressure. There would be marches, demands for the government of the day to resign, boycotts of whoever had said anything supportive of condemning Islam, academics would embark on some sort of programme to reflect their disgust, people would take the matter to Brussels, there would be mass conversions to Islam, encouragement and support of mass illegal immigration from Islamic countries (as if that were even necessary), it would go on and on. It would become a sort of enormous party, a sort of national Brighton.

    The main result of the exercise would be to strengthen the relationship between socialism and Islam (as Anthony Burgess pointed out would happen in his novel, “1985”), to increase Islam as a key identifier of what it means to be “British”, and to show to the indigenous that they actually don’t much matter anymore. Britain has new masters, you see. We are the fiefdom of Islamic lands, from Qatar to Pakistan to Saudi Arabia. It is only hubris and an inability to see reality through all the lies that convinces people otherwise.

    So, will it happen? Will we actually point to the issue and put the spotlight on it and say, this is what is really the case? Here are the warts, look, you can see them! There, the wrinkles. Or will we dissemble and shuffle the papers on the desk, in true British civil service style, and carry on with the charade (set the camera to “soft focus”)? I know which scenario I’d bank on.

    • redsquirrel

      ok, this is the most depressing thing on the internet.

      • Richard

        Sorry. I saw what happened in Africa first-hand. I know how Western governments operate, maybe better than the citizens of the West do themselves. And it is also entirely clear how the identity-free citizens of those countries operate, too. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my life, it’s how to spot a busted flush. Germany, UK, France, it’s all the same story of oblivion.

    • EHGombrich

      Good post. So our only way out would be to suspend “democracy” for a while. If not the future is Lebanon at best.

  • http://www.ajbrenchley.com/culture-blog/ Helen of Troy

    If they don’t believe in and share British values (I prefer the word ‘virtues’ and ‘foundational principles’, myself), then THERE IS THE EXIT. Why these people were ever allowed into our country in the first place is a mystery.* Why they are allowed to stay when they oppose and undermine it is nothing less than treason.

    *Or should be; but really it’s just the Left ruining everything again, as it always does.

  • http://www.ajbrenchley.com/culture-blog/ Helen of Troy

    Don’t forget, Rod, that theirs is also a culture of lying (to say nothing of sticking it to whitey — not just a Southern Spanish-moss phenomenon). I worked in a passport office once. The highlight was when I caught a man trying to use a stolen and fake birth certificate to get a passport, and G-men in trenchcoats rose up of a sudden and arrested him (thanks to moi; the crook lost a shoe in the corridor trying to make his escape to the elevator!). The lowlight was when a Middle Eastern man, blatantly ignoring the requirements and the rules, was told in crisply efficient terms by me what he must bring to obtain a passport — but he came back later and told me to my face that I had instructed him to do exactly the opposite. I wasn’t having it, and I let him know that with all the noblesse that is in my freedom-loving, law-abiding spirit. Some idiot Western woman, knowing nothing of this man’s bullying manipulation and lies, but seeing that I wasn’t cowed, saw fit to tell me off on her way out for my ‘rudeness’ to this cough obvious cough innocent. She, and other bleeding-heart non-thinkers like her, are the reason we are all in this mess.

    • Damaris Tighe

      ‘and told me to my face that I had instructed him to do exactly the opposite’: I had an immediate association here to the complete inversion of ‘our’ values that we find in Islam.

      For example, we consider murder to be the worst crime. I was told several times by a ‘moderate’ muslim that according to Islam ‘oppression is worse than murder’. We’re also told by our religions not to lie or steal. In Islam lying is permitted in some circumstances & taking booty is built into the religion. (I know Christians have done all these things but they’re not built into their faith as religious principles.)

      • Helen of Troy

        Quite right. I find it a terrifying religion, absolutely soul-warping. As you say, it has nothing to do with our principles of integrity.

        • Damaris Tighe

          ‘Soul-warping’: what a perfect way of putting it! (I can be so long-winded sometimes.)

          • Helen of Troy

            Why thank you. If you’re long-winded, I shudder to think how I should be described!

  • Kasperlos

    Spot on, Rod! The pandering Marxists of the phony academic-political alliance are bonkers, i.e. they working to establish a primitive fifth world caste system on these islands where, of course, they end up on top. The shouting and mayhem in the Islamic world can be, in part, thanked to a delirious populace exhibiting schizoid behaviour, viz. they have one foot in the 21st century (read mobile phones no matter how poor or uneducated they are, they’re able to push buttons) and the other firmly planted with a 7th century death cult. And one wonders where the balance problem lies. Where’s C.G. Jung when you need him.

  • onceler

    Truly I have fallen down the rabbit hole.

    Being from the other, old school, eternally hated Abrahamic/Semite religion I find myself with few options apart from supporting groups that have hated me for millennium. I find myself agreeing with doctrines that send shivers down my spine.

    As someone who regards “Liberty, equality, fraternity” as the most critical to life, the mind is reeling.

    I absolutely fear for the future of my families homeland for the last 600 years.

    • onceler

      Apologies, I posted the above sentiment to the wrong article, but it still applies.

    • redsquirrel

      sorry. We should have done more to protect you guys. hopefully it was just stupidity.

  • Coffy

    One of the best articles I’ve read on the subject! Need more like it!

    • John Bindon

      It’s more or less what he writes every single week, so you won’t have long to wait for the next instalment. I’m not saying I disagree with what he says mind you, but he must be close to being dangerously brave by now as there will presumably be a number of rather stupid young men who will also have noticied.

  • redsquirrel

    Even over on the guardian & Independent the general vibe is in agreement with this in the comments, if not the articles.

    Here you are really preaching to the choir. Can we start having some articles about what to do about all this please.

  • WFB56

    A great article, thanks Rod. My only niggling point would be that I think that it should be made clear that Iqbal Sacranie was knighted at the behest of the Labour Government.

  • BigDhimmy

    UK did indeed do some very serious work in 2014 trying to catch up with ” project” France and Sweden.

    The Islamization of Britain in 2014 (a must-read -excellent summary by Soeren Kern)

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4996/britain-islamization

    The Islamization of France in 2014

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4978/france-islamization

    Sweden: From “Humanitarian Superpower” to Failed State

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5108/sweden-failed-state

  • zanzamander

    that we got our approach all wrong.

    That is putting it mildly.

  • Rather worried

    So next time some jackass of a politician tells you that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were ‘nothing to do with Islam’ What a way to refer to our Dave.

    Our Dave did the country a power of good this week helping launch a giant Islamic finance fund in London and then receiving Turkey’s leader in No 10. Who cares about a little teargas here and there?

  • zanzamander

    There really is an Islamic world that is different in almost every respect to the world inhabited by the rest of non-Muslims.

  • UncleTits

    Why the unnecessary put downs of the EDL? They are ordinary guys, who have to live with what you write about, they’ve proven themselves to have massive cajones in comparison to the cosseted creatures who condemn them from afar, and they were exposing the reality of Islam when your crowd were still too afraid to poke your heads out of the trench (which, for the most part, you still are).

    “Je Suis Charlie”? I’ve not seen a single “journalist” take up the case of Tommy Robinson who is being silenced by the police in our ‘freedom-loving’ country. As much as I detest tendentious silver-tongued Muslims, they do have a point about censorship: the British establishment does not believe in freedom of speech, it invents all manner of thought crimes to comfort its favoured clients, and so why should the offending of Muslims be permitted?

    Maybe your mealy-mouthed distancing from real anti-Islamisation groups is an act of self-preservation? Despite Cameron duping the Queen into announcing a “Great Repeal Bill” in 2010, not a single act of multicultural social-engineering legislation has been repealed and the cross hairs would be on you too if you overstepped the line of permitted thought. Hardly as noble as the EDL but, people are people, at least your denunciation of them is understandable.

  • q-pantagruel

    An excellent, impassioned article that demonstrates the gloves finally coming off in the MSM. There is still much to say explicitly and out loud and, gloveless or not, I think you are still pulling your punches but this is a welcome step in the right direction. As other commenters below have noted, it’s a good start but we need to move beyond merely accurately stating the nature of the problem and start honestly assessing and discussing possible solutions to it.

    As a note of irony, I suspect that were I to post this article as a comment, it would almost certainly be deleted by the moderators. I’ve seen that happen with content less blunt than this article.

  • commenteer

    Some of us, having lived in the Muslim world, knew this along, including a fair proportion of the Foreign Office. Why did no one ask their opinion?

  • peter curtis

    What a relief to read some plain, damn common sense!

  • UncleTits

    Why the unnecessary put downs of the EDL? They are ordinary guys who have to live with what you write about, they’ve proven themselves to be massively courageous in comparison to the cosseted creatures who condemn them from afar, and they were exposing the reality of Islam when your crowd were still too afraid to poke your heads out of the trench (which, for the most part, you still are).

    “Je Suis Charlie”? I’ve not seen a single “journalist” take up the case of Tommy Robinson who is being silenced by the police in our ‘freedom-loving’ country. As much as I detest tendentious silver-tongued Muslims, they do have a point about censorship: the British establishment does not believe in freedom of speech, it invents all manner of thought crimes to comfort its favoured clients, and so why should the offending of Muslims be permitted?

    Maybe your mealy-mouthed distancing from real anti-Islamisation groups is an act of self-preservation? Despite Cameron duping the Queen into announcing a “Great Repeal Bill” in 2010, not a single act of multicultural social-engineering legislation has been repealed and the cross hairs would be on you too if you overstepped the line of permitted thought. Hardly as noble as the EDL but, people are people, at least your denunciation of them is understandable, if disappointing.

  • peter curtis

    Liddle discusses the EDL. This organisation is small and insignificant. On the continent there are far weightier anti-estalishment politicians in the form of Wilders and Le Pen. I think the point is: as long as the mainstream politicians and media refuse to recognise that there is a problem with Islam and refuse to recognise the need for an open, honest Islam debate, the populists will only become more popular. Not because people are racists – but because they wish to protest against the prevailing political correctness.

    • UncleTits

      NEWSFLASH: Almost all of humanity classifies as “racist” according to a non-hypocritical reading of multicultural orthodoxy. Let’s not play pretend – and then make policy out of it.

  • Joseph Flannagan

    The EDL is one of the very few groups who openly and honestly criticise islam and muslims. They are not afraid to stand up and be counted when it comes to addressing areas of concern such as sexual grooming , FGM , child marriage , forced marriage etc. They recognise that slavery , FGM , polygamy , wife beating , honour killing , which are ALL illegal in UK but are endorsed or practised widely in muslim societies. They also recognise that activities such as homosexuality , adultery and blasphemy against islam are NOT illegal in UK and certainly do not qualify as capital crimes despite the fact that muslim mobs parade in London calling for beheading , annihilation , death and destruction for any perceived insult to THEIR sensibilities. After innumerable atrocities worldwide carried out by muslims not ONE has ever accepted or admitted that their islamic texts and the example of their prophet are the inspiration and the driving force behind the death of countless innocents in Beslan , Bali , Lockerbie , Mumbai , Westgate Mall , Twin Towers , London Underground , Madrid , Boston , Volgograd , Xinjiang and countless other attacks in virtually every country on earth.

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      I agree. Most of what the EDL speak about is true. However, it is unfortunate that they are inarticulate and somewhat thuggish in their style. Too comparable to football hooligans.

  • Blazeaway

    Rod,

    We don’t have to ‘venture tentatively that we got our approach wrong’.

    Many people have been saying that for many years – not least Tommy Robinson who has languished under a torrent of abuse and also in jail for saying it.

    All Mr Robinson has said is what you say now. He is, of course, working class. May that explain the lies cast his way while his attackers collect knighthoods for making things worse?

  • Cyril Sneer

    Rod, the EDL have genuine reasons for protesting – for the last few years they have protested about the very thing you’re now speaking up about.

    There is nothing laughable about the EDL – they’re simply a by-product of an establishment that has chosen to ignore the concerns of British public for too long.

    • Richard

      Which Roman said you can defend yourself against external enemies, but against betrayal from within there is almost nothing you can do? Certainly true in the case of the UK.

      • JohnLobo

        Marcus Tullius Cicero to the Senate.

        “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

        • Richard

          Thank you. That was the one.

  • JSC

    RE: The EDL.

    I remember a few years ago there was an EDL march in Newcastle, with a counter protest by UAF. It was in relation with “Operation Sanctuary”, a police investigation that (so far) has netted ~120 (mostly Muslim) men for ~500-1000 child sex offences. I was unaware that the march was happening that day and the first I knew about it was hearing lots of shouting from outside the shop I was in. I came out to see the police separating the EDL and UAF into two groups. The behaviour of the two groups was an interesting contrast.

    The EDL were a mostly calm group of middle aged working class folk standing around waving English/British flags and singing “England till I die”. I did hear a bit of anti-Muslim abuse aimed at the UAF but to be fair, most of their insults were aimed at Mohammed and not at particular Muslims. They were carrying English / British flags, the Gay Pride flag and the flag of Israel.

    The UAF however were rabid. Frothing at the mouth, armed with wooden placards and fighting to get past the police to get at the EDL. Most of them appeared to be students and a lot seemed to be from other areas of the country and not locals. In particular there was a large group of Asian men in the UAF contingent clearly giving Nazi salutes and shouting anti-English, anti-British and homophobic insults at the EDL protesters. Many of them were carrying Palestinian flags, the black Islamic flag, the red-and black Anarcho-Communist flag and straight up USSR flag.

    Although I’m not a supporter of the EDL (though I support their right to protest), I’ll put it like this: one of the groups I saw that day came out looking far uglier than the other.

    • Antoine Bisset

      The cinema tends to portray the Crusaders as a group of rather upper class knights. I have a hunch that the foot-soldiers were very similar to the EDL; honest blokes from England.
      The UAF are heavily supported by the British Government. A number of the member organisations of the UAF are charities receiving grants of tax-payers money. The unions are also supporters of the UAF so their membership fees help bus the UAF thugs around the country to throw bottles at the English working class.

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      The UAF are the real racists.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        And the UAF are the real fascists

  • rodger the dodger

    The Middle East and North Africa is going into melt down over the next five years. With the collapse in the oil price (which is going to be low for some time), the national budgets of the oil producers are screwed. Couple that with the countries there that don’t produce anything anyway apart from…er…um…someone help me out, here!

    A population explosion (so to speak)/youth bulge – of young males in particular – and you have a recipe for a massive disaster. Yeah, I know, as if it isn’t happening already.

    What’s taking place in Syria and Iraq with ISIS will get worse, engulf the region and beyond, and will leave something like 3m (probably more) dead by about ’25, when it shakes out.

    You can see, I’m pretty optimistic!

    • JSC

      “Couple that with the countries there that don’t produce anything anyway apart from…er…um…someone help me out, here!”
      Terrorists? 🙂

    • mohdanga

      Best that the West stays out of it, then.

    • EHGombrich

      This could go on longer than 2025. This could be a 30 year war. ISIS is moving into Yemen now I believe.

  • Scion

    Its 1618, and it’s all kicking off in Europe. Nothing at all to do with Christianity, of course #sarcasm.

  • mikewaller

    A great little crowd-please, but again, Rod, what do you actually want done? Assuming that it is not marching millions of passport-holders to the docks to be transshipped to God know where, what action do you want taken? If you have not got an answer, what is the point in just pumping out useless froth, week after week?

    • RavenRandom

      Good question. Short term I guess you need to start by targeting systemic benefit abuse, policing no go areas, arresting those that propose terrorism, get rid of religious schools, deport where possible.
      Long term you need to deal with the badly educated underclass that is young Muslim men. Testosterone pumped dumb young idiots have allows been fodder.
      What do you think? I agree we need a realistic solution.

      • mikewaller

        I think that the first thing we need to do is to codify the British Values that folks are always banging on about. If that can be done, the control the State has over education ought to enable it enforce their being taught and examined as part of the core syllabus. Those refusing to teach them should be fired (respect for the views of others, of course, being central to BVs!) and parents trying to prevent their children being so challenged would be subject to the usual child neglect sanctions, including loss of benefits. Entry to university would be conditional upon having secured an adequate grade in the subject.

        Problem with actually doing away with religious schools is that it would be very hard not to include C of E, Catholic etc etc. and that would meet massive resistance.

        • Damaris Tighe

          ‘Respect for the views of others’ will no doubt be used to shut down criticism of Islam. There’s no reason why we should respect the views of others if we find them ridiculous.

          What we should be promoting is freedom of speech but no freedom to advocate violence towards those with whom we disagree. That’s where the line used to be drawn before the legal system introduced the idea of speech crime.

          • Helen of Troy

            Beautifully said — and economically, too! ;^)

    • black11hawk

      Presumably an end to state-backed multiculturalism and promotion of a shared British identity.

  • Mr Grumpy

    According to Douglas Alexander in the Telegraph (comments closed, naturally) the drivers of anti-Semitism in Europe are Jobbik, Golden Dawn and the Front National. He doesn’t make it quite clear which one of these the late M Coulibaly was aligned with.

    You really, really coudn’t make it up. Is there no limit to these people’s capacity for denial?

    • John Croston

      They will continue to lie, grovel and appease – because that’s what liars, grovelers and appeasers do. I hope Farage rips them to bits in the debates on the subject of their treasonous and deceitful defence of Islam. If he doesn’t he is as bad as them.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Check Pat Condell’s (YouTube) demolition of “Nothing to do with Islam).

  • Polly Radial

    I must say that the photo of Niamey, Niger, looks rather like Weston Super Mare.
    Perhaps we have more in common than we realise.

  • Malcolm Stevas

    Great piece of writing, Mr Liddle: cogent, pulls no punches, hits the spot. Shame we lack any mainstream politicians with the balls either to agree with you, or write/say the same themselves.

  • Joseph Flannagan

    For the last several years I have viewed islam as religion’s equivalent of ” The Emperor’s New Clothes ” . Let’s hope that this article becomes the equivalent of the boy who points out that the Emperor is naked and that people begin to see islam in it’s true colours. The fact that it has been given a free pass for SO long just astounds me. Apparently sane westerners , year after year denying facts so blatant that they should have been impossible to overlook . And even today with ISIS , Al Qaeda , Boko Haram , Al Shabab , Hamas , Hezbollah etc they STILL absolve islam from any culpability.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/DavidWLincoln David W. Lincoln

    Take a look at the 20th century to see what options are available.

    Shahpour Bakhtiar and Muhammed Nimr al-Hawari had one thing in mind, when it came to Islam, and the Ayatollah Khomeini and the Haj Amin al-Husseini had something quite different in mind.

    Therefore, why not strengthen those who identify with the former, and take all steps possible to weaken those who identify with the latter.

  • cremaster

    I agree with most of what Rod says, I’m just a little dismayed that he thinks EDL people are all “thick as mince”. Many of them have had the choice to join genuinely fascist movements, but were persuaded by the more reasonable ideas put foward by Tommy Robinson.

    Robinson, puts a very persuasive case here, in his address to the Oxford debating society. He was also given a fair listening and a decent ovation – all credit to the PC-indoctrinated students.

  • Bonkim

    Don’t waste newsprint on Niger – a failed state.

  • Toby

    “We have indulged parts of our Muslim community in epic paranoia, victimhood, clamorous obsessions and pre-medieval cultural appurtenances for way too long.”
    Too true!

  • PovertyIsViolence

    One might think there was a common denominator apart from Islam behind all this rage.

  • Jack_H

    Our politicians are too scared to speak out,it is truly pathetic,watching them making excuses and claiming the journalists are at fault while violent riots and pogroms are directed against non muslims in muslim countries.

  • Anton

    It’s a bit like saying the Nazis had nothing to do with Germany.

    • PovertyIsViolence

      Or anger against the rich, powerful hegemony had nothing to do with white men.

  • Peta Peta

    The indians had the right idea when they gave the area now called Pakistan to the muslims then put up a border,give them a country of their own and dont let them out

  • Waxmuseummeltdown

    The voice of reason. THANK YOU!

  • Guest

    Crusade ?

  • Angus

    Wow, a commentator with balls – at last!

  • pakitin

    Don’t know what all the fuss is about. They’ll soon be over here as asylum seekers with Cameron welcoming them with open arms while a pal of his is dishing out benefits to them and yet another of his pals is telling us all how good they all are for the economy. Oh I forgot to mention Cleggy, Miliband and Farage. Those three will be out scouting the mid east explaining the benefits of seeking asylum in the UK to the locals and to get here quick before the money runs out.

  • Smug_b

    Fantastic article. It’s about time we started to stand up and be counted, instead of capitulating to the slightest perceived “offence” of the “religion of peace”TM. The next big war – which has already begun, really – will be between the civilised world and Islam, and we need to recognise it before it’s too late.

  • Steve Lawrence

    At last! Islam and the UK have something in common!
    We don’t like the French either….

  • Garry W

    Absolutely spot on…Best article I have read it ages. Should be compulsory reading for all politicians and left wing apologists.

  • David Hopkins

    Fear not, Islam is simply having it’s final ‘fling’ before it meets it’s end.

  • Antony Curren

    not often i agree with articles written in such a manner but this one is spot on.
    The muslim leaders need to accept the fact that the terror events that are happening are happening under the name of Islam… that’s a fact. so why should the government send letters to the other religions… that’s like the law abiding neighbours either side of Robbing rob and number 15 getting a letter telling them to stop robbing…
    But when the murdering muslims are shouting allah akbar? as they blow up/shoot/stab others then the muslim community can not deny that the murders are done because of their religion.
    At the end of the day, all religions, all leaders, all ‘famous’ people are ridiculed in one way or another… here in the UK it is called humour, one thing that got the UK, and other countries, through two world wars. Religions are their to be mocked by non-believers, akin to City fans mocking united fans, it’s part of the game. But to take arms over a cartoon is insane… just think, if all religions took arms after being insulted then we’d be constantly at war with each other. The best example i can think is Monty Pythons ‘Life of Brian’, (great film), mocking religion.. but what did the followers do? they behaved in a humane manner… as all civilised people should do.
    Just look at the pictures in this article … animals. Half of them don’t even know what they are rioting for…. a bit like the recent riots in UK’s main cities.

    The UK, and many western civilised countries, have welcomed the muslims in, giving them what they have asked for at every turn…. and how do the muslims say thank you? they bomb, murder and maim if and when they don’t get what they want or someone says anything negative about their so called god… (who, in my opinion, as like all so called gods, is a figment of a persons imagination.. but that is my opinion).
    All muslims living in a western civilised world should respect the laws of that country and, more so, respect the religions of all others…. takings arms over a cartoon is not something that any logical person should be doing…

  • umtakhati

    Excellent article, your opinions are widely held by the man-in-the-street but not by the political classes and there’s the rub, politics is a filthy business carried out by despicable people with surreptitious agendas. Sooner or later even they must accept that we are in the throes of an idealogical war.

  • Carol

    Excellent article and so much truth. Why do so much of the west fall over themselves to make excuse for these barbaric people. The idealology of not turning the other cheek but slaughter people over a funny picture, has to be the culture of a mad folk

  • Asim

    what a bullshit article, biased from the outset and biased all the way throughout. anyone reasonable know yahoo, sky, fox, cnn and newspapers type websites such as the spectator are nothing but hate mongers and political agenda based far left wing semi racist blogs for non exerts to forward their idiotic views to start wars.
    the millions killed or displaced in Afghanistan, iraq, the hundreds of thousands removed from their homes in palestine, the drone attacks killing innocent people in north africa and Afghanistan dont seem to have anything to do with the outrage?? to say your all peaceful and its islam thats causing all the wars is like saying its the cows that are causing all the pollution. you kill innocent people incite hatred in the name of free press, why is there never anything about Judaism?? why not have moses in a wheelchair being pushed by a muslim man?? because that would outrage the media but having muslims displayed in a derogatory manner only offends the muslims

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Ah but back in the day those Palestinians thought they were in line to collect the mother load of war booty, which is why they stood aside to make way for the invading armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq. Didn’t quite go the way they’d planned did it.
      Millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan…. But killed by who? I think you know the answer.

  • David Stanley

    While the UN does nothing to stop the Murder of Christians, just like our leaders who would rather pander to Moslims then stop the murder of people.

  • Paul Wonnacott

    Part of the problem is that in true Islam they have no class or caste system based on economic power (supposedly), the way to gain status is to show greater religious devotion than your fellows. This is the basis of a true Theocracy.Now in the West , our status is based in the socio-economic hierarchy is based on material wealth, so for all the poor unemployed low status muslims, showing outrage is a way of gaining status in their community.
    Meanwhile oh so many of our western young have been drawn into crime, because wealth and the status it brings has become the be all and end all, and they have been born into a low social rank with little social mobility.
    Just be thankful the disillusioned, dispossessed, disenfranchised, and “Dissed” people of the West don’t have a single uniting cause as a “Rally Point” like the muslims do.
    When they do The Wild Hunt rides and total devastation is all that will be left, only the sound of the flies and crows to break the silence

  • Safy

    What an absolutely stupid article!! You only focused on the very few illiterate/uneducated and poverty stricken countries, whom we expect anything and everything ridiculous from (of course since none of the advanced countries bother to give a crap about them or educating them in any way) and point our dirty fingers at them if anything stupid happens!!!! How ignorant! Shame on you people why haven’t you looked at Saudi Arabia or UAE or any of the well educated and advanced Islamic countries attitude and reactions to the cartoons???? Noooooo why should we look at the good ones.. lets focus on those few monsters out there and generalize as usual.. yup .. who gives a crap that those don’t even have the proper knowledge about Islam and it’s teachings … nope.. not considered 🙂

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Yes because Saudi Arabia is the model example isn’t it. One road back from the skyscrapers its sh1tsville. And as for education, western universities played a larger role than you think.

  • Capt. Rosslyn V. Crasto

    I, for one, say that U should never have let them into your country in the first place, instead giving preference to Christians from the Commonwealth.
    May be a bit too late for that now considering my {recent} Interpretation of Chapter 12 of the Book Of Revelation of the Holy Bible, the Summation of which is as below:

    SUMMATION In ENGLISH:
    ====================
    SUMMATION OF MY POST Regarding INTERPRETATION of REVELATION Chapter 12:
    As per my Interpretation of Chapter 12 of the Book Of Revelation & Chapter 11 of the Book Of Isaiah of the Holy Bible, the MILLENNIAL-RULE Male Infant will be born within the next ONE YEAR, which will be indicated by a Sign in the Heavens as per Rev. 12.1, & the 7-Nation U.S.-led Coalition Army {7 Heads with 7 Diadems of the Dragon}, supported by 10 Arab Nations {10 Horns of the Dragon}, will try to Capture / Kill this VERY SPECIAL CHILD OF GOD, but will FAIL miserably when He is immediately taken up to Heaven, & this self-same Army will then try to kill the MOTHER by bursting the MOSUL DAM {across the TIGRIS RIVER} in Northern Iraq, but will AGAIN FAIL when ALMOST ALL THE WATER FROM THE DAM’S RESERVOIR will be swallowed up by the huge Karst Caverns presently beneath this Dam. The Mother will finally escape to the wilderness for 3.5 Years, in a large Aircraft, probably a Hercules C130-E of the Iraqi Air Force. There will be a Revolt by SATAN & his Minions against God in Heaven, Satan & his Minions will be defeated & cast down onto the Earth for 3.5 Years, where they will make life very miserable for good Christian People, who number One-Third of all of Mankind. My Post is a Warning & Preparation to this One Third of Mankind, good Christian people.
    Please Read the said Chapter 12 of the Book Of Revelation of the Holy Bible on your own, to form your own conclusions, &, if interested, U may LEFT-CLICK on my name herein, & scroll my Complete List of Posts on YAHOO or DISQUS to reach & read the FULL FORM of the said INTERPRETATION in the LANGUAGE OF YOUR CHOICE.
    Also available on my FACEBOOK Timeline.
    Thank you and God Bless.

  • Prince_of_Troy13

    The solution is so easy….any muslim who is not happy in europe, canada, US or any other ‘white’ country should just leave and go to the middle east or to other muslim country where they will be more comfortable….That easy!

  • kenneth jamieson

    poor wee Rod, showing his impotence by stoking the flames of bigotry and suffering from a huge slice of Islamaphobia, Christians don’t do killing, never have, never will, and if you bury your head in the sand for enough you might actually believe that.

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Ah the irony. Speaking of burying one’s head in the sand. Are you a multi culti cheerleader. So you think it’s working well?

  • Nicky Christian

    Yet still our government lets them in, to go straight onto benefits, provided by we the British taxpayers. I wish they hated hand-outs as much as they hated westerners.

    • zz

      People from all backgrounds come to the UK and other countries and apply for benefits, not just Muslims.

  • patrick

    Muslims should be kicked out of all our countries and sent back to the desert where the can kill each other . Any survivors should be put down like the mad dogs they are

    • zz

      Not all Muslims live in a desert and not all Muslims are Arabs. That is the 27th ignorant and uneducated comment I read in this section.

  • Terry Davies

    It is difficult to understand Islam,they strut their stuff proclaiming their love of humanity & their devotion to prayer & immediately go out to murder,rape commit infanticide & then blame it all on Christianity.Most of them would not admit that Mohammed was a grubby little bandit until he fell under the charms of a widow who then taught him better manners.This randy little thug then proceeded to tell any fool who would listen how they should live their lives according to him.In consequence we have Muslims who shouldn’t drink making & drinking beer commercially some who eat Pork & others that abuse very young girls & think that’s OK.The rest are hell bent on killing any who oppose their sick ideas.Perhaps it’s time we used some of our out of date Nuclear weapons on them.

    • zz

      Judging from your question you have never read the Quran or any history or Islamic books (that’s the problem with the West, they are uneducated and love to generalize). Well I have mate and I can tell you that everything you said is untrue. 1. Muhammad was always an honest and kind person who never ripped anyone off and had good manners. 2. Kadijhah WANTED to marry him because she loved how honest he was. 3. There are tons of White Christians who are abusing little girls too for example Jimmy savile and more. There are tons of priests going around raping little boys too. 4. Yes Muslims are not allowed to drink, but isn’t that a good thing? there are tons of broken families and alcoholics in the West already you wouldn’t want the Muslim population adding to that figure. 5. Why are you generalizing? 1.6 billion Muslims are NOT going around murdering and raping also no one is blaming Christianity for anything. The only thing Muslims (and the West) are blaming us for is that we fund these terrorist groups and that we invaded Iraq for no reason which caused this very big mess.

  • Mr Horrible

    The Prophet Muhammad was a warmonger and a paedophile. Islam should be wiped off the face of the planet. We Germans needs to kick that scum out of our Country.

  • Mr Horrible

    Islam is the Religion of the stone ages. Its so barbaric. Muhammad is a child abusing pig f*cker.

  • blahblahblah77

    We all know where this is heading, a civil war… for years people have been warning of this, and time and time again our own “leaders” have buried their heads in the sand.

    We keep making excuses and allowances because our leaders do not want to admit to the problem, like a bad relationship where neither party knows how to get out of, we’re trying to make it work when deep down we’re miserable with the other.

    The only thing keeping this from turning really nasty is the rate of attacks, trust me, if we’re being attacked on a weekly basis, things will change, and muslims whether they want to or not, will have no choice to oppose us because we will not know which of them we can trust, only that they are muslim.

    All the while muslims are trying to convert white people to their cause, if they do that, it will make it impossible to stop, not to mention it will allow them to escape the racial profiling thing.

    Its going to be anarchy. But who cares, how can you respect any demographic that allows itself to be taken over by a bunch of primitive zealots.

    Maybe its what you all deserve.

  • ann boultby

    What a load of RUBBISH.

  • Jac Mck

    Let Rod join the TV debates. Everyone else is

  • Michael North

    That’s why Islam is so popular. It sanctifies mindless, murderous woggery.
    There is no such thing as a “moderate Muslim”. It is a figment of the self-deluding western liberal imagination, and the term is only used in countries which are not Muslim-dominated.
    Those Muslims who play along are as self-deluding as the secular liberals who dominate politics and the media . Either that or they are practising the deception of infidels taught in the Koran.

  • IainRMuir

    “The EDL is …. and reviled for nothing more than its thuggish opinions …. nor
    sent its thick-as-mince legions…”

    Yes yes, we’ve heard all that before, but they’ve always demonstrated sounder instincts than the supposedly intelligent people in government and the media.

    If we’d listened to them sooner, and been prepared to credit them with at least a modicum of intelligence, instead of wondering why they don’t learn how to speak nicely, or keep quiet and know their place, much of the present mess could have been avoided.

  • abraham

    islam means “courage in murder”,so that says it all really.

    • zz

      LOL no I doesn’t. Why is this site full of uneducated idiots?

  • Raphael Merriman

    The difference with the EDL is it isn’t a Christian organisation.

    Like the BNP, Britain First, and other such groups, they use a veneer of Christianity to justify their thuggish behaviour, but the truth is they are not Christians.

    On the other hand, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and all the other Islamic terror groups are made up of ONLY muslims.

    Islam is the religion of peace. Unless you’re not a muslim, in which case you should be killed.

  • Tomolika

    The Muslims are liars who lie their way through into the country and then lie in order to stay. They lie and bring in family members. Then they start going on about their religion and prophet they couldn’t care less about the western country and its values and they will take and enjoy but they are only loyal to their faith. It will be the demise of the west for trusting anyone to come in and not making them follow their own rules.

  • mike whitty

    Kick them out, so called ‘British’ or not send them back to the lands that their parents or grandparents came from – they will never assimilate or fit in with our Western way of life and I for one most certainly do not want their evil cult ‘religion’ in my homeland!

    • zz

      I’m guessing you live in a white area. Because majority of Muslims DO fit into Western way of life, it is only some who ruin it for the rest.

  • abraham

    what irks me is the fact that these rioters are black.the quran clearly states (written by mohammad)that black men are to be damned at judgement day.this was written in the 7th century AD.it’s amazing how many of this mans vile teachings are dismissed by the very people who claim to obey them.lets face it,they hate mohammads teachings and do their own thing,thus nullifying the quran in their hearts.

    • zz

      1. Muhammad freed a black slave called Bilal (from a Christian who was torturing him)
      2. He was given one of the most important duties too
      3. In the Qur’an it says so many times how no one is superior then anyone that it doesn’t matter what race you are, God created all of us and we are equal under his eye so do not dare to mock his creation (which includes black people).

      • g1lgam3sh

        The Arabic word for black is abd.

        The Arabic word for slave is abd.

  • AM

    Another Israel first article paid for by Israel and Jewish money. Here is a question: Why was the US, UK, France, ISrael all supporting, funding and arming the Islamic State. Why was it Iran who had to take the fight to them and to protect minorities like Christians, Yazidi and Kurds from being killed?

    How does that fit into your tidy narative?

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      It doesn’t fit at all considering they have failed and christians are still being slaughtered.

      Oh yes…. It was the joooooooooos that done it.
      Difficult to take you seriously I’m afraid.

  • kikuyu

    Kafir, and its plural kafirun, is directly used 134 times in Qur’an. Mulsims, Christians & Jews people of the Book are only a little better than Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans & so on. Collectively all us non-believers have no place in the world of Mohammad. Is this not itself incitement to kill?

  • abraham

    the arab religion of hate is still enslaving blacks i see-when will these blacks free themselves from the heavy arab yoke…?

  • Tiger

    Gopping religion and people…the west is waking up soon we will rid ourselves of them in one foul swoop …..anyway Im doing the UKIP thing as they seem to be only in touch party in UK. Rule Britania !

  • david

    Because we have feckless politicians infected with curios amounts of hypocritical PC

  • William Hayes

    don’t they understand that if they kick us enough ,we will turn and destroy them we have enough bad people if need e

  • martin

    It is indeed the usual nonsense is coming from the tiny response from the pro=Islamic community. Rod Liddle has written honestly, truthfully without resorting to non factual evidence and to the point. A pity that he is not the prime minister. Perhaps then the Union flag would not be flown at Bukc Palace and Westminster.
    Many of the so called inventions within the Islamic world were also attributed to the Jewish community that lived in those lands, long before Christianity or Islam. “Others” have been taxed especially for the pleasure of living as second class people without rights, open to the odd slaughter here and there. All because they were Dhimmies. 950,000 Jews have been ethnically cleansed form north Africa and the Middle East and the Christian are following them out.
    The only country in the middle east where Christians are not attacked and can lead a normal life as an equal, is in Israel.
    to Asim, you have never read the Jewish Bible, which in its King James version became the cornerstone of western civilisation. Even before the bible, the world was given the 7 Noahides Laws, while the rest of mankind was praying to the moon and idois etc. The Quran is not a peaceful book as has since been pointed out, it also calls for the warning about the Jew hiding behind the rock to seek him out and kill him. Islam is an ideology of conquest and too many of it’s followers hate everyone except for themselves. Not for nothing did the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (related to the paedophilic Fascist murderer Arafat) meet with Hitler during WW2 to discuss the genocide of the Jews had Britain lost the war. Sadly, I find Islam even more hateful than the idiotic trolls we have on these sites.
    By the way Asim, please tell people about the Green Islamic map of the world centred on Mecca. How much greened has the world become? That in itself is proof of the ongoing Islamisation of the world
    Europe murdered 6 million Jews, including 11/2 million children and babies. Who knows what scientists, inventions, medicine etc would have been discovered if they had not been slaughtered. Yes, many Jews were ultra orthodox who only wanted to pray, study and work to pay for their expenses. Many others though contributed to the well being of the countries they lived in. Well Europe has replaced them with many more millions of Muslims. Here in the UK, Muslim prisoners make up a very high proportion in jail comparative to the general population. Only because too many will not work and do not intend to work

  • William Hayes

    the BNP is right

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Yep. Far right

  • jjac

    They always say it’s nothing to do with Islam. But everything that is happing is carried out by Islamic people. Of course its Islam What else!!!!!!!!.

    • Safy

      Yes I totally agree with you and History just proves it as well!! All the crusades, world war 1 and 2, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the genocide of native Americans, the vikings, the hundred years wars between England vs France and vs Spain. All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way.. and so much more WAS ALL DONE BY MUSLIMS.. bravo guys you have totally outsmarted yourselves!!! 😀 Stop being ignorant racist people and read your own history before pointing a dirty finger at others.. thank you 🙂

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        I didn’t realise ww1 & 2 were religious wars. Or any of the others for that matter, except of course the crusades which were by and large to cast out the muslim invaders. Shame they failed.

  • Safy

    What an absolutely stupid article!! You only focused on the very few illiterate/uneducated and poverty stricken countries, whom we expect anything and everything ridiculous from (of course since none of the advanced countries bother to give a crap about them or educating them in any way) and point our dirty fingers at them if anything stupid happens!!!! How ignorant! Shame on you people why haven’t you looked at Saudi Arabia or UAE or any of the well educated and advanced Islamic countries attitude and reactions to the cartoons???? Noooooo why should we look at the good ones.. lets focus on those few monsters out there and generalize as usual.. yup .. who gives a crap that those don’t even have the proper knowledge about Islam and it’s teachings … nope.. not considered 🙂

    • ItwasBlairwotdunnit

      Quite right. Saudi Arabia is a bastion of modernity and tolerance.

      • zz

        Saudi Arabia is corrupt. They’re government and all the clerics. But luckily majority of Saudi Arabians would like their country to be a democracy.

        • ItwasBlairwotdunnit

          I was being somewhat ironic

    • Cebosty

      There are poorer and more impoverished Christians, whose ancestors were even used as slaves in ancient times, why have they not turned violent against the westerners, citing verses from the bible? I’m a black African, and in my country we experience similar issues- some Muslims becoming unnecessarily violent at the slightest provocation. The major point is that some aggressive messages in the Koran must be changed, especially where they referred to human beings as infidels and supported death. Countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE recognized , on time, the need to neglect some of those aggressive elements which easily influences the majority. You can see the peaceful outcome. It needs to be formalised and generalised.

      • zz

        Please. Even in your bible there are tons of violent verses. No, the Qur’an doesn’t need to be changed what needs to be changed is how people interpret the Qur’an and that they (the terrorist groups) take words out of context from the Qur’an to justify their violent behavior. Many black Muslims are facing the same thing Black Christians are facing in Africa you know. Also black people have the highest crime rate, the highest illiteracy rate and have not contributed much to society. The only thing you guys have invented are diseases such as Ebola, HIV, Aids and so on. And black people ARE violent sorry but its true. Here in Britain black areas are full of crime and very unsafe (way unsafer then Muslim areas) and blacks are much more aggressive then the Muslims in the UK (and around the world). Some Muslims were also used as slaves in ancient times too by the way.

        • g1lgam3sh

          In the Old Testament yes, but that was abrogated, (superseded), by the New Testament.

          A complete contrast to islam where the earlier peaceful Meccan verses were abrogated, (superseded), by the later violent Medina verses.

          Abrogation is a central concept in islam so either you know almost nothing about it or you are simply lying.

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          If you haven’t worked out how to interpret the quran after 1400 years then frankly you should bin it and think of something else to do.

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          You mean muslims aren’t claiming they invented ebola, Hiv and aids. That’s a first, you invented everything else.
          So you think those diseases are man-made? Brilliant. Is that what your iman told you?

  • Mark

    Dont worry all. As the saying goes, ‘Good always wins over evil’. Islam is evil. Need I say more ??

    • Safy

      Yes I totally agree with you and History just proves it as well!! All the crusades, world war 1 and 2, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the genocide of native Americans, the vikings, the hundred years wars between England vs France and vs Spain. All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way.. and so much more WAS ALL DONE BY MUSLIMS.. bravo guys you have totally outsmarted yourselves!!! 😀 Stop being ignorant racist people and read your own history before pointing a dirty finger at others.. thank you 🙂

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        Broken record.

  • Lepanto

    Politicians saying that Islam is a peaceful religion is their way of trying to persuade most religiously illiterate Muslims in the west that this is actually true and so ‘keep a lid’ on things. They absolutely know that what they say is untrue (they are not idiots) but the time has come to cease pretending, one reading of the Koran is enough to let anyone know that violence and rape against non-believers is not just permitted but required.

    • Safy

      Yes I totally agree with you and History just proves it as well!! All the crusades, world war 1 and 2, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the genocide of native Americans, the vikings, the hundred years wars between England vs France and vs Spain. All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way.. and so much more WAS ALL DONE BY MUSLIMS.. bravo guys you have totally outsmarted yourselves!!! 😀 Stop being ignorant racist people and read your own history before pointing a dirty finger at others.

      • FedUpIndian

        “All the years of that Britain envaded 90% of the world and enslaved the
        Africans specifically the blacks and Indians and many more torturing
        them, humiliating and degrading them in every possible way..”

        Nothing that the British did in India compares to the horrors inflicted by Muslims on Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs and even Jews in India. During the 1000 year darkness of Muslim rule, somewhere between 10 million and 50 million non-Muslims were killed for the crime of being kaffirs.

        Millions of our people were enslaved and taken to slave markets in Ghazni, Baghdad and Samarkand – the Gypsies are believed to be the descendants of some of these unfortunate people. Male slaves were castrated – Marco Polo writes that the province of Bengal was one of the main suppliers of eunuchs to the Islamic world. Millions of women were raped and made into sex slaves by Muslims as is permitted by their religion.

        Thousands of our temples were desecrated and razed to the ground. The great Somnath temple was desecrated no fewer than 6 times by Muslims. Even the stones of our temples were enslaved and made into mosques all over India.

        Nothing that the British did compares to these horrors. If you had any sense of shame, you would not bring up India, given the record of what Muslims inflicted on innocent people there.

        • Safy

          Bro.. that wasn’t Islam so stop right there. those were selfish disgusting people doing all that for their own prejudice and pride and NOT for Islam BUT in the name of Islam. It is still happening and it’s disgusting in so many ways yet again it’s NOT Islam it’s what any selfish brutal person who is Muslim by religion is doing for his OWN benefit in using the name of Islam to justify his disgusting acts. Islam is innocent of all those monsters and sadly they are not few but we can get rid of them not by causing more hatred between us, but by uniting and educating our children and starting from our own homes raising loving children to all races.

          • ptd747

            Totally agree Fed Up Indian.
            Hindus foresaw this all happening. In 1989 in the name of Jihad, the Pakistani terrorists systematically ethnically cleansed the minority Hindu population in Kashmir through a prolonged campaign of genocide and terror and drove the remainder of the Hindu population into exile into neighbouring India. This was the birth of Islamic fundamentalism. India and the Western Governments (pro-Pakistan at the time) stayed silent. Now, we all have a massive problem on our doorstep with extremism.
            Tired of the Western Governments with their vested interests pandering to Islam. The Government has to do something about the growth of this dangerous, venomous, backwards religion.
            Muslims will never speak out because fundamentally no matter whether they are educated or uneducated they are all sympathisers of the ’cause’. I can’t believe Muslims are bringing up Western history as a pretext to justify Muslims’ current actions around the world. Abhorrent.
            Saying ‘bro’, ‘we’ and ‘our’, by the way, is simply laughable.

          • zz

            No one is justifying anything. The problem with the West is they like to point the finger at other people and constantly batter them for the atrocities they commit and they forget that they have committed many atrocities themselves for example invading Iraq for no apparent reason which caused the mother of all mess!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            A large cross section of adherants must be selfish then.
            Maybe we need a government inspectorate that monitors all mosques in the country. give them an extremist rating. Those that fail go into special measures or are closed.

      • Trofim

        Guess what, Safy. This is the present. Whether all you say is true or not, it is irrelevant. This is the present. Got it? Not the past. Muslim countries are dysfunctional countries. They can’t manage freedom, democracy, creativity, productivity. Take a look:

        http://www.guidedones.com/issues/regions/world/pakfacts.htm

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        Broken record. I’d get that looked at.

      • Lepanto

        The Muslims did indeed enslave many black (and white) people and did so long after the Americas had ceased. They twice tried to invade Europe using thousands of enslaved soldiers to do so. The Crusades were a response to Muslim expansion not an attack on the innocent. But that was history – what happened last week and who did it? and the week before and who was responsible? and the week before that etc… You get the picture

  • http://www.occarina.net/ BH

    The ideology of these sociopaths is based on the recollections of a guy who spent several days all by himself in the unremittingly paint-stripping heat of the Arabian desert. While there, surprise, surprise, he heard a voice. The Islamic faith was founded upon that guy’s recollection of his ‘encounter’. In fact, not a single word that can be directly attributed to him appeared in written form for several decades after his death, and even that has since been subject to endless reinterpretation and re-writing. Anyway, why do the media insistently dignify the murderous activities of this godless bunch of thugs by referring to them under their own chosen title of “Islamic State” when a far more accurate epithet would be “Infantry of Satan”?

    • zz

      Maybe because he couldn’t write.

  • Jeff

    We are British with a british legal system. Anyone not willing to live under that system should be invited(very roughly) to leave the country. We once had an empire, now we haven’t even got a country to call our own. All the muslims who want to live by sharia law should pack up go to a muslim land and live there. Let them have Iraq, Iran and Syria, move them all there and close down the borders. They have their IS and we are rid of them. Once they have all beheaded each other in a few years we can move in sweep up the mess and carry on living.

  • ptd747

    Islam is in danger of giving a bad name to every other ethnic community living in, loving and contributing to British society. I am worried that the good British public may not be able to distinguish one Muslim from another ‘Asian’.

    How comes no other ethnic group (be it Hindus, Sikhs or Jews) feel the need to bleat on about their religion constantly, become offended at any ‘slight’ on the religion, request special privileges and then form a victim mentality when they get them.

    • zz

      What special privileges? both Hindus, Buddhist, Sikhs and Jews have mosques, churches, temples and synigogues built in Britain and schools make sure to serve vegetarian options as well as meat and pork options! So stop acting like as if Muslims get ‘special privileges’ when in fact all religion do!

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      No I think most people are clear with which group the problem lies, distinguishable by their actions and words

  • Malcolm Herbert

    I don’t like saying “told you so” but I forecast most of these events back in the eighties when Muslim Pakistanis started to rake over parts of Bradford and make them “no go” areas for whites. I was told then that my politics were to the right of Genghis Khan but I’ve been proved right!

    • zz

      I have a white friend who lives there, she says Muslims are not horrible to her.

      • g1lgam3sh

        Nobody believes your hilariously obvious taqiyya and kitman.

  • ptd747

    As a Hindu, we are taught that education is the absolute primary focus – we are always pushed to do well and give back to society. Sorry to compartmentalise but the Hindus, Chinese and Jews academically always do the best – the league tables speak for themselves. Unlike the Bangladeshis and Pakistanis who are always low-performing overall. Academia isn’t everything – we want to fit in– not stand out like a sore thumb, therefore if we have religious predilection – then we don’t shout about it from the rooftops – it’s a private matter. Above all, we feel a part of and are
    proud of Britain. Sadly, Islam now emblemises how multiculturalism in this
    country doesn’t work. Which is a shame as other ethnic groups can perfectly
    co-exist and blend in with society.

    This is why Hindus and Muslims have never seen eye to eye. We are diametrically opposed on every level. The whole world needs to be united in the war against extremism. And if there are any moderate Muslims out there then why aren’t they vociferously speaking out about the atrocities, not in some half-baked, wishy washy manner?

    • zz

      I don’t know about you but tons of Hindus, Pakistanis, Bengalis are doing well in their education here in Britain and I have seen that they all get along as well. Pakistan and Bangladesh are a little poorer then India but they do still have a lot of educated people. Well at least rape and child bride isn’t that high in Pakistan and Bangladesh compares to India and aren’t you guys trying to take over and attack Kashmiris?

  • gerald myhill

    Brilliant….if you look at any comments by muslims here you can see how brainwashed they are and how they all think the same way. We all need to understand how important it is that they understand they CANNOT have their crazy stuff here. Why are they here anyway if they abhore our culture?? I have noticed that they like the money and homes they are provided with here though. Haha

    • zz

      Both my parents owe their own businesses, we are not on welfare and we owe our own homes too. I am an only child as well. My parents and I have never committed a crime in our lives and we get along with everyone from all backgrounds. I attend University and I also work part-time. My parents and I also like to study about different religions as well. We have read the Qur’an in English and Arabic, we have read tons of Islamic books, hadiths and now are reading the Bible. I don’t see anywhere in the Qur’an that says Muslims should kill non-muslims and should forcefully convert them. This is actually against Islam. Here are a few verses

      Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”

      It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

      ~Muslim girl X

  • Adam

    What a load of crap! Did I just really waste 5 minutes of my life reading this rubbish? 5 minutes I’ll never get back,

    • ehbobby

      It took you five minutes to read that? When did you start typing your reply; yesterday?

  • howie

    Absolutely brilliant. Very well put, but I feel only my generation and older will see and feel the problem, I’m 58. My father would turn in his grave at the way britain is going( note the omission of great). Fortunately he died 32 years ago and was a war veteran. Myself I have done the right thing and have left the country 16 years ago( I’m in Spain) and it looks worse from here.

    • zz

      Yeah a lot of spanishes have told me how brits have fled to their country and they hate it, they want u to leave.

  • Rodge Randle

    It is nearly as brutal as the Christian Spanish Inquisition against the Moors! Glass Houses Peeps

    • ItwasBlairwotdunnit

      Was that on CNN? Missed that one.

  • dmac

    convert or die ! you see you cannot research there religion , it is against their laws , so Mohamed , the war lord who butchered his opposition , these teachings are written as part of the Islamic faith , and they will not stop until the world is converted , or dead , they cannot be against their faith of peace , when the teachings of such say only god can judge , and they cannot be judged for killing a infidel ! strange I know , but there is a terrible flip to this , and if you make war on one muslim ! there teachings say that the muslim world will make war upon you , frightening times ahead for all !

    • Safy

      Doesn’t that just remind you of the medieval days when the Catholics did just the same with the Protestants and the crusaders did that across the world.. the good ol’ days..

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        Funnily enough we’ve moved on from the good old days. Is islam going to do the same any time soon?

  • the knight

    Islam is at war with the rest of us.If we look at the chaos around Europe, middle East ,north Africa , the Netherlands it’s being coordinated. Meanwhile the muslims look around saying they’re subject to islamophobia —–no they’re the manipulators of violence ,hatred ,murder ,sexism and racism.
    The muslim council of Great Britain wants a law to protect muslims from islamophobia –in other words use the law to prevent the backlash by the indigenous population but allow muslims to beat up ,bully and control our streets. They want to sit down with political leaders , why? No religion is allowed to participate in government but hey they want to. Islam rules the nations its spread into and it is here, like a cancer!!!What we see in Niger is only the beginning.The more they get away with the more they will demand!

  • labambagia

    And 90% of all our humanitarian aid is spent on muslim countries… lets keep helping them breed out of control and then we’ll give them a passport as well so that they will be so gateful that they will come here and teach us how to live in peace – obviously sponsored by the taxpeyer.

  • ROGER HUGHES

    what is wrong with the scorched earth idea.! 95% of earths population keep faith in fairies at the bottom of the garden or some such rubbish all types have murdered in the name of some dog sorry god or another we will not miss a few countries.

  • Provonick

    Spot on!, anyone who spouts on about “moderate Muslims” should be made to read this!

  • Ali Makaveli

    A white navy seal was convicted of raping a baby. Did the media bring up his colour, race or religion? No. Many whites like Hitler have commited genocide, does that mena all whites do that and are racist? There is a breed of sheeple that drink out the anus of the media diarrhea and will continue to do so until they forget to breathe.

    The real problem here isn’t religion, colour, sex, race or nationality, but the defection of some “human” species. Sadly sheeple are blind to knowledge and need the media spoon feeding them vile diarrhea.

    • Aftab Akbar

      I wish your mother would get her smelly clothes on and go somewhere else tell her I’m not interested anymore she smells like the sewer that you was brought up in you dirt flfthy bsrtd now go and scrape the grunge from you mum you inbread little rat

  • HAQ KHAN

    COMING TO A TOWN NEAR YOU SOON.

    It’s impossible to stop and soon it will be as common in Europe as in Africa The Middle East and Turkey.

    The problem is that Islam is founded on violence. This is indisputable. You need to go back nearly 1,400 years – It’s founded on The Prophet Mohammed who was one of the most violent warmongers in history.

    His acts of violence including beheading children is being emulated by modern Islamicists. And even in Europe his penchant for sex with children is also drawn upon as inspiration and excuses for medieval behavior and because Police and Politicians have allowed it to happen (Branded “Cultural” and flagged to let it happen) the Muslims of Europe and Australia have known no bounds to their ever more horrific behaviour. And they blame the indigenous people of the countries they are taking over for being weak. There are some modest Islamic countries which would be a good guide but they are modern, they are democracies and in the case of Malaysia it is illegal to be other than a Sunni so they don’t have the “civil” wars between sects. And no political solution exists to Boko Haram or IS – only the law of the sword

    And now you have to add in the “Tribal Aspect” of Islam. Again going back back to the death of Mohammed. Upon his death the bloody war for the spoils of his regime led to what became the “Sunnis” attempting to murder every single blood relative, friend or follower of his appointed successor, his son-in law Ali who was to be the new Caliph. Those few who survived became the “Shias” and today remain a minority, about 10% of the world’s Muslims. Within both Sunni and Shia sects there are further “sub” religions and each of course wants to impose their form of Islam on the others. Much of it has remained within defined areas and is as much tribal rivalries as much as religious but the truth is 90% of the violence is purely gangsters wishing to rape and pillage. The one common denominator is that they are all so violent and apparently inhuman in their cruelty that they make the Nazis look mild. If we face facts, if the Radical Muslims (include in that the wealth of Saudi Arabia) were to unite and use their wealth and organize their war efforts they would literally wipe out billions of people – IF THEY ACHIEVED THEIR WISHES.

    • zz

      Muhammad didn’t go around chopping of heads of children, where the hell did you read that?
      if you want to know more about islam read
      Islam the basics by Colin Turner.
      Everything you said is false.

      • wordfromthewise

        The Paedo-prophet was in 67 border wars, having started 66 of them. How on earth do you think mo killed his opponents – by buying them boxes of Thorntons chocolates?

        • zz

          Thorton chocolates didn’t exist back then. And yes he killed anyone who tried to attack him first but other then that he went around preaching about Islam peacefully and he let people practice their religion.

          • g1lgam3sh

            “When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah’s word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants”
            Koran 17:16-17

            “In order that Allah may seperate the impure from the pure, Put All the impure ones (Non-Muslim), one on top of the another in a Heap and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost”
            Koran 8:37

            “Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty”
            Koran 58:5

            “The only proper recompense for those who fight against God and His Messenger and try to spread evil in the land is to be killed, crucified, or either to have one of their hands and feet cut from the opposite side or to be sent into exile. These are to disgrace them in this life and they will suffer a great torment in the life hereafter.”
            Koran 5:33

            There are many more.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I think you are losing 10 years of rape, pillage and slaughter. Stop doing a boy look and find them

  • mattmark

    The irony is that the same well-meaning apologists who can think of no better way to put a positive face on things than by whitewashing reality also decry the turn to political extremism. They’re not wrong to be worried about that. But when people see that their concerns aren’t being taken seriously by the moderate centre, and that a social taboo has arisen against speaking the truth, isn’t it logical that they will tend to gravitate toward the more extreme ends of the political spectrum, where the problems are at least being honestly acknowledged?

  • Cathie Bruji Rowntree

    One hell of an article; articulate and all encompassing. I fail to understand how so many of the so-called educated and enlightened population of our world today, and all our ‘law-makers’ fail to gain any wide perspective of that which is patently obvious to so many of us who ultimately find ourselves with little or no choice in the government of our respective countries. Their wholesale ignorance and lack of forethought is incredible.

  • andrea davis

    I had a dream and premonition that the UK and rest of the world all became like some type of Islamic nation or similar. The men in my dream all looked like around 7ft tall, like giant gladiators and they were aggressive, blood thirsty and had little or not emotion about them. In my dream, I saw what looked like gladiator arenas where they used white British men to fight to the death and there was no mercy at all. Crowds were cheering on as people were fighting to death and everyone seemed to be bloody thirsty. This entire future race of people that I seen in my vision were ruthless. The world cities in my dream looked like Dubai and it looked as though the entire world was destroyed and rebuilt again to be ruled by one race of people. I found my dream quite scarey, it was nothing like the UK I was brought up in and whose ancestors had worked hard their entire lives to get the UK that we have today.

    • zz

      Thank god it was just a dream and it wont happen. The West has the best armies and the best military equipment so these Islamic groups wont come to the West. Also why does the West fund these Islamic terrorist groups?….

  • James Lovelace

    “Reprehensible (and, frankly, laughable) though the EDL may be, there is simply no comparison. ”

    When EDL first appeared, the black and white men who founded it went on Newsnight and burned a Swastika and denounced National Socialism. The video from 2009 is still on the BBC website for all to see.

    But instead of supporting a popular, pro-democracy, anti-sharia protest group, the British media (without exception) portrayed EDL as racist and fascist. The political class, whilst claiming islamic terrorists were from “The Religion of Peace” portrayed EDL as dangerous and violent.

    We will make sure that Britons remember the treachery of the media and the political class.

  • Baz

    Vote… UKIP

  • Julian McSweeney

    Every time I hear these Islamic fundamentalist and jihadis proudly telling us how much they love death I wonder why we are so backward in pointing out that it is generally because we in the west love life so much, and particularly our freedom, that we are willing to fight (and in many cases, to die) for it. The battle lines have been well and truly drawn. Either our lily-livered politicians begin standing up for our country or we should boot them out and replace them with people who will.

  • colin

    Muslims marry relatives, first cousins etc , their gene pool is severely weakened hence many are affected with various problems both physical and mental, this is well documented and costs the NHS and taxpayer a lot.

  • Joe Pennington

    To find out who is really BRITISH bring back NATIONAL SERVICE and see who is willing to defend the country they live in!!!!!

  • Keith Hampson

    At Last Someone With SOME

  • wordfromthewise

    I AM SHOUTING BECAUSE I HAVE DEVOTED THE LAST 2 YEARS TRYING TO PRESENT TO PEOPLE THE HIDEOUS CULT OF ISLAM. It was like shouting to the profoundly deaf and the totally blind. The halal-pandering British media didn’t help. Neither did Cameron or Obama, one an appeaser worse than Chamberlain and the other already a Sunni Moslem by birth.

    THIS INVASION BY STEALTH OF MOSLEMS INTO THE WEST CANNOT GO ON!!! ANY SANE PERSON WOULD DEMAND THE IMMEDIATE EXPULSION OF MOSLEMS FROM EUROPE, BRITAIN AND AMERICA. That’s not racism; what ‘race’ is islam anyway? That’s SURVIVAL OF THE THE WESTERN NATIONS, pure and simple, or else we submit to living in a CRUEL, MISOGYNISTIC, BARBAROUS, IGNORANT AND BACKWARD 3rd world pooh hole like Yemen, Niger, Morocco, Libya, Indonesia or any other MOSLEM country you can name.

    I don’t want this for my children.

    • zz

      It’s Muslim, please learn how to spell you ignorant, uneducated fool.

      • zz

        I’ve also been to Indonesia, Morocco and Lebanon. They have many beautiful places and great food, I wouldn’t call them a complete sh*t hole.

    • stefanoalanify .

      Really? you know where children come from?
      you must be a joke

  • William John Howe

    I am in shock, someone who tells the truth, excellent article
    .

  • macbatty

    Wow excellent and truthful!

  • edward

    All British politician should be made to answer to the British people for their downright ignorance and stupid statements about what the Islamic militants and there are thousands in Britain, are attempting to do and it is not integrate. There intention is to make us change our country to suit them and if they are not prepared to do something about it the should resign and let those who will do the job.

  • Sally White

    Spot on Rod

  • Albert Steptoe

    Excellent, usually, media writers are so ‘right-on’ and PC, this is the truth, Islam is always sounding off its bile and vile. We’re accused her of ‘Islamaphobia’ when there’s plenty of Westerna-phobia going on and no-one bats an eyelid. Would we get the same minority rights in the Muslim world? Pigs might fly, but I doubt it.

  • Trofim

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
    persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
    progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw.

    Let’s just tailor the phrase a bit, and we’ve got the modus operandi of Muslims, if you understand progress to be progress towards an Islamic state:

    The infidel adapts himself to the world; the Muslim
    persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
    progress depends on the Muslim.

  • John

    Surf to website
    thereligionofpeace and read how Islam is killing Christians
    Islam’s Latest Contributions to Peace “Mohammed is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are harsh to the unbelievers but merciful to one another” Quran 48:29
    Too many to list here!
    2015.01.23 (Mosul, Iraq) – Four university professors are executed by
    the Islamic State.
    2015.01.23 (Zamboanga, Philippines) – An Abu Sayyaf car bombing in a commercial area leaves one dead and four dozen injured.
    2015.01.22 (Mogadishu, Somali) – Five people are blown to bits by a Shahid
    suicide bomber at a hotel.
    2015.01.22 (Taji, Iraq) – Eight Iraqis are liquidated by a Fedayeen
    suicide bomber.
    2015.01.21 (Homs, Syria) – Terrorists set off a car bomb in a shopping
    district, killing seven patrons.
    2015.01.20 (Jaghuri, Afghanistan) – Women and children are among eight civilians
    ripped to shreds by a Sunni roadside
    bomb.
    16/01.15 Forty-five churches have been torched in Niger.
    At least five people died and 128 were injured in the capital Niamey
    during protests.
    1/6/2015 Egypt Cairo 2 0 Two men guarding a church are shot to
    death by extremists.
    1/4/2015 Nigeria Kantoma 2 10 Two people preparing for church
    are shot to death by Fulani terrorists.
    1/2/2015 Nigeria Ambe-Madaki 15 40 Fifteen villagers are
    massacred when Muslim terrorists attack a Christian village.
    1/1/2015 Nigeria Gombe 0 8 A suicide bomber detonates at the
    entrance of a church service.
    12/31/2014 Nigeria Kantoma 3 0 Three members of a church are cut
    down in a vicious assault by Muslim terrorists.
    12/27/2014 Nigeria Tattaura 10 0 Muslims slaughter ten
    Christians.
    12/25/2014 Libya Sirte 1 0 A 13-year-old Coptic girl is murdered
    and dumped after being abducted by Islamists.
    12/25/2014 Somalia Mogadishu 4 0 Four others are killed during
    an al-Shabaab small arms attack targeting Christians celebrating Christmas.
    12/23/2014 Libya Sirte 2 1 Muslim radicals murder a Christian
    couple and abduct their daughter.
    12/17/2014 Nigeria Sabon Gida Shagogo 10 0 Fulani terrorists
    burn down a church and kill ten villagers, including the pastor.
    12/16/2014 CAR Mbres 1 0 Muslim terrorists kill a Christian with
    a grenade.
    12/14/2014 Iraq Mosul 3 0 Three Christians die after being
    tortured by the Islamic State.
    12/9/2014 Iraq Baghdad 4 0 A vicar reports that four Christian
    children were beheaded for ‘refusing to follow Muhammad’.
    12/5/2014 CAR Bambari 12 13 A dozen Christian villagers are
    pulled out of their homes and stabbed or shot to death by ‘young Muslims’.
    12/3/2014 Lebanon Arsal 1 2 One person is killed by a bomb
    planted just outside of a Christian village.
    12/3/2014 Nigeria Lassa 11 20 At least eleven innocents lose
    their lives when Boko Haram go on a church-burning spree. Twenty girls are
    kidnapped for sex slavery.
    12/2/2014 Kenya Korome 36 0 Islamists slaughter three dozen
    Christian quarry workers after separating them from Muslims. Several are
    beheaded.
    11/29/2014 Nigeria Shani 40 0 Scores are reported killed when
    Islamists ride motorbikes into a Christian town and fire indiscriminately at
    fleeing residents.
    11/22/2014 Kenya Mandera 28 0 Religion of Peace proponents stop a bus, single
    out and slaughter twenty-eight non-Muslims (including nine women) after
    identifying them as Christians.
    11/11/2014 Nigeria Rim 1 0 Muslim gunmen target church-goers,
    killing one.
    11/5/2014 Nigeria Whitambaya 2 0 Two people are killed when
    Boko Haram invade a small town and burn churches.
    11/4/2014 Pakistan Lahore 2 0 A Muslim bomb burns a Christian
    man and his pregnant wife alive for alleged ‘blasphemy’. The victims where
    tortured for two days prior to being shoved into an oven.
    11/2/2014 Nigeria Sabon Gari 12 0 At least a dozen people
    heading to church are killed.

    • zz

      Copy and pasted.

  • Keith Hampson

    “Isis is still widely worshiped by many pagans today in diverse religious contexts”

    a “goddess” religion taken from writings from syria and the nile

  • Woodcutter

    Watch your back, and the front door Rod ! Very good article but what is the solution. None of the spineless politicians we have, has got the ability to challenge Islam.
    Nigel Farage is the only one who sounds as if he actually means what he says. Rare for a modern political figure, he talks with passion and conviction. In the meantime we can always watch Pat Condell, and dream .

  • Robertus Maximus

    Tremendous article, Rod. You should be made Lecturer on Islamic Studies to the Palace of Westminster.

  • ouldbob

    Damned well said. He deserves a blinking medal.

  • Laan Smaillwi

    You don’t have a racist bone in your body do you Rod. You truly are the new Richard Littlejohn

  • young_mind

    Very good article. Finally someone has said it. Although people saying UKIP will be the only ones to solve this issue, I don’t think is entirely true. There isn’t much anyone can do to stop this. I feel like what Rod said is true and there should be a new name for the ‘extremists’ as it is becoming more and more ‘normal’ in the Islamic faith to follow in the steps of extremists, however i also see that there are people of that faith who aren’t and calling the extremists mainstream just isn’t fair.
    However i do think this is a very good article and am proud as well as happy that someone has finally made this point

    • Trofim

      Only not “Islamic faith” please. “Islamic ideology”. It’s a political ideology being used to transform our society.
      With regard to “There isn’t much anyone can do to stop this” – there is war. That’s the choice really – either an Islamic caliphate within the lifetime of our grandchildren, or war.

      • young_mind

        I agree but we should have never been left with that choice. I don’t myself believe that war is the solution because then whats the difference between us and them?

        • Trofim

          What’s your solution? I would like to hope that very very stringent unbending muscular liberalism, with no concessions, no exceptions, no appeasement might work. I mean, schools and universities are rotten with relativism and a desire for everything to be sweet and lovely. Instead we could make logic / rigorous thinking as a core subject, and make sure nobody of any “faith community” can avoid exposure to opposing views of the world, but it seems too late for that.

  • fred baker

    What was religion of people who carried ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslim . What is the religion of Seleka coalition and the anti-balaka in Central African Republic who are engage in mass killing of Muslim.

    • Smug_b

      Yeah, pointing to what other religious nutjobs have done, in no way, negates the fact of the barbaric behaviour of large swathes of Muslims around the world. I mean, what exactly is your point in bringing up these examples? That it’s okay for Muslims to riot and kill in the name of ‘offence’, because people of another religion did bad things? It’s okay for gunmen to storm the offices of Charlie Hebdo and execute cartoonists for ‘blasphemy’, because of something that happened involving Christians in the Balkans or Africa? Show me how what you’ve written in any way relates to the facts of what is happening in the Muslim world and their reaction to some ink on a page.

    • JohnLobo

      I think it would be unwise to base any argument on what goes on in Sub-Saharan Africa.

  • Raold

    It is pretty obvious that the UK electorate is being ignored on this issue, but we really do not need a Neo Nazi like Farage to deal with it. We need someone respected and firm in their commitment, not an opportunist with limited appeal.

    • Trofim

      Neo-Nazi?! Watch out folks – we’ve got one of them.
      And the someone respected and firm in their commitment would be . . . ?

    • BlueScreenOfDeath

      “a Neo Nazi like Farage “

      Cretin.

  • Gary

    Please give the British National Party a chance to sort this mess out. Somehow I doubt that UKIP will deliver the goods.

  • Benthos

    Great article Rod, well done!

  • Arabelle

    Hi Rod, I am French and I will make you a complement that you are one of a few who totally understand what drove the Charlie hebdo cartoonists to write and draw what they did. They saw before everybody else that we had gone too far in making room for political correctness as far as Islam is concerned

  • Benthos

    One of the things thats strikes me about the islamic cult is their inability to move forward. If the planet was one big caliphate we would still be banging those rocks together.

  • Reg King

    “How dreadful are the curses which
    Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which
    is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful
    fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries.
    Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of
    commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the
    Prophet rule or live.”

    – Sir Winston Churchill, 1899.

  • mattmark

    Knowledge isn’t power, alas. In the 1930s, plenty of intelligent Europeans saw that things were sliding towards disaster… what were they supposed to do about it, exactly? ‘We know better, but it’s out of our control,’ is the thought-balloon that’s appeared over the head of the far-sighted and perceptive since before the last ice age. Their insights have never made the slightest difference to what societies believe and do.

  • Polly

    everyone in the country should be made to read this fantastic article

  • Billy

    The EDL have always had a small following in this civilised country but they will get far more members if we are faced with more of this third world sh*te who don’t know how to behave. We British will only take so much and it’s getting near the time that we stopped being “understanding” and mobilised against this Islamic dross!
    The PC brigade will wonder what has happened.

  • Skjerstad

    The above article is aying what everyone is well aware of. Yet, our politicians seem not to get it……..Or do they? This seems far too simple to me and to ‘not get it’ is like to ignore the elephant in the room. This leads me to think that there could be a much more sinister reason behind our politicians actions…. i hope not. But Cameron with his ‘ Islam is a religion of love and peace’ speech and Merkel with her marching in the streets deminstrating against her own German people leads one to think that there is a massive move to decieve the people of Europe on this Islam question.

  • Reg King

    “In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle.”

    – John Quincy Adams

  • hello?

    this is ignorance too. wilful perpetuation of ignorance. know that there are billions of Muslims who go about their daily lives striving for goodness. this is all ugly politics masquerading in the name of religion. these are people with grievances. but ISLAM is not this. the politicians are right to side to make this distinction. shame on this magazine that it can’t.

    • mattmark

      Jihadist extremists may not be the face of Islam moderates would prefer to acknowledge, but it’s silly to pretend they aren’t part of the picture. And how complete is any picture that’s whitewashed?

      • hello?

        that’s an intelligent comment. really, Muslim means someone in peace. its not easy to be that, its something to work on. but its easy to grow up in a Muslim country and be ignorant. and here too

        • mattmark

          Whatever the denotative meaning of ‘Muslim,’ it’s clearly ludicrous to pretend that all Muslims are peaceful. The moderates can disown the extremists all they want, but they are no more entitled to claim that they alone represent Islam than the extremists are. Islam is represented by all its followers, the peaceful and non-peaceful, the well-informed and ignorant alike.

          • hello?

            nobody can pretend all Muslims are peaceful. look at them! they are ruining the face of it. but Islam is represented by those who do actually practice it , not those who shout and kill and don’t. that is not Islam. that is the important distinction

          • mattmark

            One of the fundamental tenets of Islam you appear to have missed is that people are free to come to their own understanding of it. You can no more arrogate to yourself the right to say what Islam is and isn’t than can a jihadist.

          • hello?

            Islam is itself. if you follow it well, all is well. if you follow it wrong, you have wrong results. many people are following wrong ideas and wrong people, not Islam.

          • mattmark

            This could have been uttered, word for word, by a murderous jihadist as he was beheading someone. Surely you can see this for yourself. Not only is he just as certain as you are that he’s the true spokesman for Islam, he has as much intellectual right to advance the claim as you do. The two of you are appealing to the very same epistemological sanction.

          • hello?

            you can’t behead an innocent and make claims that you are a Muslim. it is like giving poison to someone and shouting I am a doctor.

          • mattmark

            This is more like witnessing a doctor giving poison to someone and having you deny that he’s a doctor. It’s the sort of basic intellectual incoherence that makes westerners wonder if they’re dealing with medieval children in debates like this.

          • hello?

            I am saying that to me and most Muslims, this is not a Muslim, this is a terrorist. Muslim and terrorist is a contradiction in terms. He is outside of Islam

          • mattmark

            You are saying that… this we understand. What you don’t seem to grasp is that jihadists say the same about you, and that you can claim no privileged position as a spokesman for Islam. No-one is suggesting that moderate Muslims are to blame for the sins of a few. What does need to be acknowledged is that the ‘few’ represent one facet of Islam and are numerous enough to create mayhem among people who live far from Muslim lands and have no interest in Muslims’ quarrels with each other, or in Muslim notions of what cartoonists should be allowed to draw.

            P.S. Take it from someone who has taught logic: ‘Muslim terrorist’ is no more a contradiction in terms than ‘murdering doctor.’

          • hello?

            to a Muslim Muslim terrorist is a contradiction in terms. Islam/Muslim means surrendering to the Divine brings peace. terrorism means instilling fear in innocent people through violence.

            I think moderate Muslims and reasonable Westerners need to be united and on the same side in opposing this terrorism. the battle as ever is between good and evil, not Islam and the West.

          • mattmark

            The notion that anyone could successfully oppose the type of ‘evil’ we’re concerned with here while somehow managing to avoid also having to oppose ‘Muslims who commit evil acts’ (dismissed by you as a ‘contradiction in terms’) is not only a mite fanciful but incoherent.

        • BlueScreenOfDeath

          “Muslim means someone in peace”

          Actually, it means someone who has submitted to the will of Allah, not the same thing at all, not even close.

          Take your disingenuous BS and stuff it where the Sun don’t shine.

    • Arabelle

      agreed but all these Muslims striving for goodness must start speaking louder than the ones striving for violence.

      • hello?

        speaking loud belongs to the media. and the media ain’t so interested in promoting Islam, peace.

        • Arabelle

          Well we need to see more moderate Muslims in the media then otherwise your are letting the jihadists speak for you

          • hello?

            true

        • Skjerstad

          you may have noticed that we have had Islam crap up to our necks. That is enough, time to throw out Islam. It is not peace it is anything but peace. I see a big war starting, or has it started already? There is only one outcome and it will not be the backward, illiterate inbreds who will win.

          • hello?

            Islam is not on the tv.
            yes, there is a war. it is between all the war-mongers.
            the is another war inside of us. it is between love and hate who is winning?

          • Skjerstad

            Well, Islam holds the copyright on ‘hate’ and with soft appeasers like you who love to be shafted from all angles and still find excuses for the ‘poor misunderstood Islamists’, i would say the world as we know it will soon be gone. Unless we get tough and stop this influx of pure evil we will be overun.Now, hello? get with it.

  • Reg King

    “Some, indeed, dream of an Islam in the future, rationalised and regenerate. All this has been tried already, and has miserably failed. The Koran has so encrusted the religion in a hard unyielding casement of ordinances and social laws, that if the
    shell be broken the life is gone. A rationalistic Islam would be Islam no longer.”

    – Sir William Muir

    Victorian orientalist scholar, Cambridge 1881

  • Arabelle

    We must fight them in the media. We must fight them in schools. We must fight them in our Dinner parties. We must fight them with our cartoons. Well done Rod!

    • hello?

      you are on the side of fighting

      • Smug_b

        Sometimes, sadly, fighting is the only available response, as is the case with Islamic terrorism.

        • hello?

          so you are more on their side than you realise

          • Smug_b

            Utter nonsense. Fighting to maintain our freedoms is nothing like fighting to impose an archaic, barbaric belief-system on the world.

      • Arabelle

        only word fighting. I am happy to have any argument that will enlighten me

      • BlueScreenOfDeath

        Against the 7th century barbaric cult of Islam and its ambitions for global domination, yes, damn right I am!

        So are many, many millions of others too.

  • zz

    I love how the media is so biased. Plenty of Christian Africans are going around killings Muslims and burning down Mosques but the Journalist who write this didn’t bother to mention this and even if he/she did, they probably wouldn’t blame Christianity! also why are people blaming religion because of the action of humans? Religion is perfect, but humans are not. There are tons of ignorant, narrow minded people already in this world…

    • Trofim

      Religion is perfect? So is my arse.
      What some Africans are doing is irrelevant.
      Can you show me a non-Muslim country where changing your religion is a crime, as it is in all Muslim countries.

      • hello?

        the Truth is perfect.

        • mattmark

          …but the supposition that Islam has sole custody of the truth is open to challenge. You shouldn’t be killed for questioning it.

          • hello?

            true and true. it doesn’t and you most definitely shouldn’t. these militant Islamists are the scourge of Islam, they are our enemies too, us regular Muslims. all this political bullshit and the fruit of the practice of Islam are worlds apart. that’s what this article is not getting

          • mattmark

            I may be guilty of a misunderstanding here. Isn’t there a blogger who’s currently being flogged in Saudi Arabia for daring to question Islam’s custody of truth? Isn’t such questioning considered blasphemous? Can his official punishment, imposed by the Saudi state, somehow be explained away as an aberrant, militant ‘scourge of Islam,’ together with its laws and cultural practices? How?

          • hello?

            you are talking here about the Saudi state. which is very far from Islam

          • mattmark

            So neither militant Islamists nor the Saudi state represent Islam… but your posts and opinions do? Whatever personal conception of Islam you are seeking to hold immune from criticism here, it clearly has no connection with the facts and issues Rod Liddle and the rest of us are grappling with.

          • hello?

            yes. neither militant Muslims nor the Saudi state represent Islam. that is very important to recognise. they both claim loudly to do that and the media supports that. but the majority of Muslims have nothing to do with these people. it is so important to distinguish between political factions and