Status anxiety

Jeremy Corbyn and the hard left are wilfully blind to the evils of Islamist Nazis

It’s beginning to look as though the Labour leader really does sympathise with terrorists

23 January 2016

9:00 AM

23 January 2016

9:00 AM

Many people watching Jeremy Corbyn’s interview on Marr last Sunday will have been shocked by his remarks about the need to begin a ‘dialogue’ with the leadership of the Islamic State. ‘I think there has to be some understanding of where their strong points are,’ he said.

Afterwards, when these comments were widely reported, Corbyn’s supporters said they’d been taken out of context — the standard defence whenever he is criticised for saying something positive about Islamist terrorists, such as describing Hamas and Hezbollah as his ‘friends’ or the death of bin Laden as a ‘tragedy’. But there are only so many times this excuse can be used to explain these apparently supportive remarks. It’s beginning to look as though the Labour leader really does sympathise with terrorists.

It’s particularly difficult to make allowances for Corbyn when you take the broader context into account — the historical links between the hard left and Islamism. I’m currently reading The Flight of the Intellectuals by Paul Berman, which, in large part, is about the failure of the European left to see Islamism for what it is: namely, a Middle Eastern form of fascism. Berman documents in painstaking detail how Islamism was transformed into a mass movement by the Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s to foment anti-British insurrection in the Middle East and as an instrument for carrying out the extermination of the Jews.

[Alt-Text]


The evidence linking Hassan al-Banna, the intellectual architect of Islamism and founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, to Nazism is substantial. For one thing, he singled out Hitler as a political role model in one of his political tracts. For another, he was a close ally of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, who helped set up a Muslim division of the Waffen SS in the Balkans. The Nazis gave the Muslim Brotherhood and its allies a good deal of resources, including a network of radio stations that the Grand Mufti used to disseminate pro-German propaganda. In 1942, one of these stations broadcast a speech telling all Arabs: ‘You must kill the Jews before they open fire on you. Kill the Jews who appropriated your wealth and who are plotting against your security. Arabs of Syria, Iraq and Palestine, what are you waiting for?’

Initially, the hard left had no difficulty in condemning Islamism. Tony Cliff, the founder of the Socialist Workers Party, wrote a pamphlet in 1946 drawing attention to the fascist nature of the Muslim Brotherhood. But various Trotskyist sects began to warm up to Islamism in the 1980s and 1990s, culminating in a full-blown coalition in the run up to the Iraq war. In mass protests organised by the Socialist Workers Party and its European counterparts in 2003, Islamists carrying the banners of Hamas and Hezbollah marched with veterans of the European internationalist left, including Jeremy Corbyn. For the most part they got on well, although there were occasional flare-ups. For instance, during an anti-war demo in Paris a gang of Islamists broke off to beat up a group of yarmulke–wearing Jews, even though the Jews had turned up to support the cause.

One reason for the hard left’s change of heart about Islamism was straightforward political expediency. Here was an anti-western political movement boasting huge support among disadvantaged groups of young Muslims in Europe’s major cities. If Trotskyist front groups like the Stop the War Coalition could harness these disaffected youths to their cause, it might lead to a much-needed injection of energy and resources. And to a limited extent, that tactic succeeded, with new hybrid political groups springing up, such as Respect.

But as Paul Berman points out, it was also an expression of a wilful political blindness. The hard left had so much in common with the Islamists — a history of fighting colonialism, a hatred of Britain and America, a contempt for liberal democracy, a romantic attachment to revolution and a willingness to countenance violence as a tool of political change — that they were prepared to overlook some of their less savoury beliefs, such as virulent anti-Semitism. They were also prepared to make excuses for the activities of their more radical elements, such as the Taleban and al-Qaeda.

Back in the 1940s, few would have predicted that this bastard child of Nazism would find an ally in the leader of the Labour party. But it looks increasingly as though that has happened and I doubt if Labour will ever recover.

Toby Young is associate editor of The Spectator.

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Show comments
  • Shazza

    I believe that our advanced, freedom loving civilisation is facing its greatest threat and indeed could result in its total annihilation.

    I would pose the question ‘Can one call oneself civilised if you find ways of condoning and accepting an ideology which at the very best advocates control and oppression and at the very worst savagery and brutality?’

    • The_greyhound

      The terrifying truth is that in our new mad parody of civilization even to criticize this savage ideology is practically forbidden. This barbarous nonsense already enjoys a privileged position courtesy of the Communications Act 2003, and anyone brave enough to speak up is immediately the focus of the treacherous, warped legal trade, and the incompetent, corrupt and politicized Police. Ned Miliband promised to outlaw rational examination of the Religion of Peace – cast iron Dave will doubtless do it.

      • red2black

        It’s not forbidden at The Spectator.

        • Seax

          Is it wrong to stand against the oppression of the poor?

          • red2black

            No, but most religions and political creeds fail to do that.

          • Sarka

            Have you stopped beating your wife?

    • Seax

      That is why I oppose wild Neo Liberalism.

      It does all that you wish to oppose.

  • Ben Marsden

    The left are eating away at the foundations of western democracy like termites. They detest white, western capitalism. They will do anything to bring it down, which includes colluding with the most barbaric ideology that exists in the world today – Islamism.

    • Seax

      So why are the right handing our country over to the Commies?

    • Hybird

      Please can you tell me where Islam differs from Islamism?

      • Seax

        it is an important point.

      • stuartMilan

        the spelling?

      • CalUKGR

        Perhaps ‘political Islam’ would be a better term.

        • JabbaPapa

          Islam is ALWAYS political.

      • Mr B J Mann

        Islam is the “acceptable” face of Islamism.

        Islamism is “liberal” name for its true face.

        • quotes

          Not sure that’s fair. I take your point – the religion contains a complex legal and political system and exhorts followers to live by it – but it’s still surely more a case of “Islamism” being a nasty ougrowth of “Islam”, which is itself a “problematic” (to use the phrase du jour) ideology but one which there is no reason to believe can’t be reformed.

          It should be remembered that Islam is roughly 600 years behind the most comparable global monotheist faith.

          Similarly it is worth looking at Judasim and all that is contained within the Talmud, then looking at Israel, before deciding that the religion can never support a liberal and secular democracy.

          Israel does OK from source material that’s at least as “problematic” as anything Muhammad said.

          Until Christianity came to various compromises with the political forces that sought – with very good reason – to restrict its power, it was at least as bad as Islam. The Inquisition was not an aberration, nor were the unending wars or the witchburnings.

          There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that human beings aren’t perfectly capable of using Islam as a guide without straying into violence. There’s nothing to suggest that it can’t be an “acceptable” private religion like Christianity.

          • Mr B J Mann

            Except: “one which there is no reason to believe can’t be reformed.”

            “It should be remembered that Islam is roughly 600 years behind the most comparable global monotheist faith.”

            Do wo have 600 years?!

          • JabbaPapa

            More — Greek quasi-Monotheism is 600 years older, and there’s no real interruption in terms of the core Faith between Judaism and Christianity (the ruptures were elsewhere).

            I’d say about 1000 years at least.

          • johnb1945

            This is a complete misstatement of historical fact. Sadly this misunderstanding of history has become widespread, so allow me to correct you.

            Political powers did not seek with very good reason – to restrict its (Christianity’s) power .

            If anything, rather than conflict with Christianity, historical secular rulers have sought to exploit Christianity.

            For example – European Monarchs claimed to rule by divine right as a means of securing their dynasties against challenge.

            There is, however, nothing Christ like in this arrangement. Look in the New Testament, you won’t find any form of secular rule or law by divine right in it. You’ll find the opposite – a complete disinterest in secular rule or politics.

            This spiritual model of religion has made separation of powers possible and it has been born through a process of Christian reform and counter reform.

            What you understand to be separation of powers has been born from and within Christianity.

            It is incredibly parochial to assume that Islam, which, unlike Christianity, has an immutable model of secular polity and law derived directly from the teachings and sunnah of Muhammed, can do the same and become apolitical.

            It probably can’t. Certainly no Islamic scholars currently are proposing that it can. There is no radical ulema at Al-Azhar university saying that Muhammed actually proposed a private, secular form of religion.

            The choices are no Islam, or Islam as it was always intended – a complete way of life from the secular to the spiritual.

          • JabbaPapa

            European Monarchs claimed to rule by divine right as a means of securing their dynasties against challenge

            Sad, but mostly true, historically (it began with all those pesky Roman Emperors) — though our own more local Catholic Monarch has no need for such nonsense ; but he views the Catholicity as service and duty.

            It cannot of course be said that Her Majesty considers her Anglicanism otherwise.

            —-

            Islam is still embroiled in its sectarian conflict of wise men and warlords.

          • vieuxceps2

            Nobody disputes the virtues of Christianity. What is under discussion is the Church, an entirely different matter.

          • JabbaPapa

            Until Christianity came to various compromises with the political forces that sought – with very good reason – to restrict its power, it was at least as bad as Islam. The Inquisition was not an aberration, nor were the unending wars or the witchburnings.

            Oh FFS — you try and sound all “reasonable” and “balanced”, then drop this pile of steaming atheist indoctrination on the middle of the carpet ?

            The Courts of the Inquisitions were Courts of Canon Law, where the accused, his defenders, his accusers, and the local civil Magistrate(s) were presented in hearing to an impartial Judge foreign to the area.

            Most verdicts pronounced were — “not guilty”.

            Of the remaining, about 90% were condemned variously by the Inquisitor or the local Magistrate to some greater or smaller, or petty, fines, or religious penances, or some corporal punishment.

            The tiny minority of those condemned to death, necessarily by the Civil Magistrate (sometimes by the local Suzerain) were so condemned on the basis of having committed crimes — like, y’know, murder, rape, kidnapping, banditry, etc … (including FYI the occasional paedophile)

            These Courts had their flaws, particularly in the first century of their existence, because due to their strikingly innovative nature, certain men were designated Inquisitors or military escort who should have been kept well away from any such activity, and so the occasional RARE abuses occurred.

            Nevertheless — the structure of these Courts and the Method of their proceedings are the model that the entire modern Western system of criminal Justice is based on.

            And fundamentally — that’s why they’re no longer needed. Because the rest of the World is now doing what once only the Catholic Church did.

      • vieuxceps2

        Islam differs from Islamism wherever PC speech is mandatory.

  • http://www.ukipforbritain.co.uk/ ukipforbritainwebsite

    My opinion of Jeremy Corbyn is so extreme I’d better not write it. It’s not his economic policies or anything like that, it is exactly what Toby Young has described above. I recognise evil when I see it, and so do many others.

    • Matt

      Just to clarify, you think that Corbyn is evil?

  • mickey667

    Toby Young’s faux histories, Cod Science and pretendy philsosophical musings are getting so tiring.

    Cane not hire someone who actually has read more than the introduction to books?

    • The_greyhound

      Perhaps you would be happier on the site of the Rotherham Guardian & Groper’s Friend http://www.theguardian.com/uk – though be very careful what you say there, as censorship is savage.

    • S&A

      ‘Cane not hire someone’.

      That sounds like an awesome idea. Instead of paying someone’s wages, why not send them to Madame Whiplash for a bit of spanking fun?

      • Mr B J Mann

        Or Saudi Arabia where they will do it with a straight face.

        Or, now I think of it, with a grin too?!

  • Billo Qasira

    The Left establishment, with honourable exceptions, has allowed itself to be co-opted by the enemies of our civilisation, Jihadis and Islamists. Corbyn, Milne, McDonnell are on the side of those who would murder us, and destroy and subvert our culture and societies. When this comes to public consciousness fully it will lead to a great backlash that shall correct the imbalance they have caused. The Guardian, Liberty, and other pillars of the Left that are in league with and apologists for the Islamists shall face scrutiny and opposition for their perfidy and evil too

  • http://www.figurewizard.com/ figurewizard

    Ignoring the risk posed by Milliband’s spiffing electoral wheeze of a three quid membership, smug senior members of the Labour party dreamt up one of their own; a leadership “debate” by means of persuading otherwise inclined members to support Corbyn to enter the race. As usual with all Labour disasters, they only have themselves to blame for this one.

    • Seax

      You prefer a one horse race?

      • Brian Jones

        I prefer a horse race with horses not including a snake.The truth of the matter is than none of the candidates would be up to the job which is not appeasing the party membership or the PLP but attracting voters.

    • Mr B J Mann

      It’s a defining feature of the left that they can’t see through their dreams to the unintended, but bleedin obvious, consequence!

  • ExamineIslam

    It’s clear the Left is horrifically stupid and blind to the evils of Islam, and prefer to focus on Israel’s right to defend her citizens from Muslim terrorism. Most people in this country are sensible enough to see this for what it is – loony leftism. However, how long this can last is difficult to say when the British media is full of pro-Islamic left lunacy, the BBC especially but also of course Channel 4 and Al-Jazeera being broadcast for free to all Freeview boxes.

    • Billo Qasira

      As a public sector broadcaster pressure can be brought to bear on the BBC with its pro Islam agenda. Its up to conservatives and genuine liberals who are against moral relativism to step up.

      • Seax

        Are you anti-Islam then?

        It would be interested to find out why.

        • Hybird

          Perhaps because Islam is a violent, intolerant, misogynistic, supremacist ideology that sanctions beheading, wife-beating, stoning, flogging, the lopping off of hands and feet, killing homosexuals, adulterers and apostates? Or because it has a role model “prophet” who indulged in mass murder, torture and rape? Perhaps because being anti-Islam is common bloody sense?

          • Seax

            So you are against Saudi Arabia? They are an Islamic state. Do you think that Cameron should be pals with such hateful people (in your clear assessment)?

            What do you think about the way that Cameron’s Government, presumably, supports all of those attributes you despise?

            http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/13/12/15E0A606000005DC-3270578-Earlier_this_year_David_Cameron_faced_criticism_for_fawning_trib-a-18_1444737108231.jpg

          • Hybird

            I hate Tories and always have done. And as for Saudi Barbaria – isn’t it way past time someone just nuked Mecca – the heart of the beast?

          • Seax

            It is not just Tories. It is any that accept their behaviour for profit rather than Prophet.

            Using either to excuse murder is evil.

          • Mr B J Mann

            I’m against China’s totalitarian government.

            I can see that in the real world a country might need to have pragmatic relations with it.

            I can also see that that isn’t a reason for inviting it to take over this country.

            So your point is?!

        • Mr B J Mann

          Are you pro-Christianity then?

          It would be interested to find out why not in the circumstances.

    • Seax

      Is Israel in compliance with the UN resolutions placed on them? If they were it would help their case.

      • Caviar luvvie

        Which UN? The one made up of 75% Muslim country members, where people for the most part, live horrific lives? That one?

  • MC

    JC’s determined long drawn out suicide mission, including the support
    for terrorists, ultimately helps old fashioned conservatism to re-assert
    itself after decades of PC abuse. There were so many liberals (real
    ones, not the con artist Clegg) and Tories voting for Corbyn for £3
    because they sensed blood; they betted that extreme socialism will eat
    itself and threw it a big juicy bone for starters.

    I sense Cameron is testing waters at the moment. With the next Labour government being at least 10 or 15 years away, he has a long time to carefully recentre the UK, destroy the multicultural myths and cut down the islamic invasion. He pretended to be pro muslims, whilst slowly brinmging out his sword to cut it in two. Part of me even thinks Cameron is cleverly pro Leave EU, but knows that being seen to be pro-EU suits his poker face agenda.

    Hegel’s thesis-antithesis-synthesis in slo-mo action.

  • fordwych

    Jeremy Corbyn.

    A man who has never met an enemy of Britain he didn’t like.

    • Seax

      At least he doesn’t sell out our workers to our enemies by giving them our jobs.

      Dave would rather have Commies make our steel, for example.

      • Seax

        Don’t forget that the Tories prefer to send warship production to Korea rather than keep UK shipbuilders in work.

        • DeltaNaught

          That moment when you start replying to your own comments….

      • Brian Jones

        I don’t suppose Blair sanctioning the sale of our steel industry to CORUS who then closed the British plants to remove the competition has anything to do with the parlous state of our stell industry.

  • wildcolonialboy

    *You* voted for him! I despise Corbyn, but frankly Toby Young is even more contemptible. He publicly encouraged people who were opponents of the Labour Party to dishonestly cast ballots in the leadership election. Nobody who has any core of decency or honour could bring themselves to lie in a political declaration, declaring themselves to be something they’re not, simply to damage the other party. Toby Young is an ugly little charlatan, and it was an episode he should not be allowed to live down.

    As for Corbyn, he’s far worse than this poorly-researched and lazy article indicates. Corbyn didn’t merely claim Hamas were his friends, and anyone who bothers to actually look into it will see he went on to say that Hamas is “dedicated to the good of the Palestinian people, and long-term peace and social justice”, a stance that completely undermines any claim to have been “misunderstood” when he called them friends.

    Furthermore, Corbyn’s friendships with Islamofascists like Raed Salah, Ibrahim Hewitt (who called for adulterers and homosexuals to be stoned to death) and Abou Jahjah speak for themselves. Corbyn’s friend Abou Jahjah runs an organisation called Sharia4Belgium to which the Paris attacker Abaaoud was linked. Corbyn accepted donations from Interpal, which is actually proscribed as a terrorist organisation in the United States.

    Finally, Corbyn accepted up to 20 grand in payments from the government of Iran for his work as a propaganda shill on PressTV. He took money from a government that hangs gay people from cranes, and is one of the largest exporters of short-range rockets in the world (putting the lie to his claims about being progressive on sexuality or arms control issues). Corbyn can be absolutely destroyed by his record and his own actions, it’s unfortunate that there are so many lazy journalists who are paid to put out poorly-researched tripe like this article that every single time fails to really nail him and allows his supporters to deploy their carefully curated excuses.

    If you want to see more information about the Iran payments, see this link. I’ve repeatedly brought it to the attention of journalists, they don’t print it (perhaps some of them hope to keep PressTV in the back pocket as a fall back if they ever need it, or they have a code not to criticise people for media earnings)

    hurryupharry.org/2016/01/01/jeremy-corbyn-and-irans-press-tv/

    • Seax

      And the all expenses paid trip by Cameron to an apartheid state? What do you think of that?

      • wildcolonialboy

        Your response is “whatabout, whatabout, whatabout”. That simply demonstrates that Corbyn is a hypocrite to criticise what he himself does.

        Tell us, is Hamas dedicated to “peace and social justice” as your cult leader has said?

  • Curnonsky

    The Left doesn’t “overlook” the violent bigoted nature of Islamism, any more than they were blind to the evil nature of Communism. Spilling blood, chucking enemies off rooftops, etc. etc. – that’s the very core of the attraction to Corbyn and his crew. They’re too cowardly to admit it, of course, but the violence is the turn-on to all these pasty-skinned weaklings.

    • Seax

      And new British warships will be made with Communist steel. Tory Britian is Commie Britain. The right love communism as long as it makes them richer or supplies them with cheap labour. Again; to make them richer.

      So who is going to build our nuke reactors again? Oh yes: The Communists.

      Thanks Dave.

      • The_greyhound

        I see you daren’t try to answer Curnonsky’s point. The bigotry and violence of islamism is fundamental to its appeal to the modern Labour leadership and the rabble that support it. Though these cowards may only be up to intimidating women MPs, spitting, and making idle threats on the internet, there’s no mistaking the intolerance and bigotry of the Left in its final senility.

        • Seax

          It is not a point, it is propaganda.

          I am surprised that the right have not posted mash-up pictures of Corbyn eating a baby yet.

          You do not want to admit that the Righties are pals to the communists.

          Also, how do we know that the threats were made by socialists? From the £3 affair, we know that rightwingers are willing to lie about their political views online. I would but be surprised if they were doing the hateful stuff as well.

          Also, let’s have a look at bigotry.

          I think that Gypsies should have a right to have stopping places in every City. DIscuss…

          Lets see how that goes down with the righties.

          • Mr B J Mann

            On their way back to the ‘Stans?!

          • Hybird

            “I think that Gypsies should have a right to have stopping places in every City.”

            They already do. They are called “hotels.”

  • Knight of Tipton

    The hard Left would make a deal with the devil if it gave them power. In this case, the Radical Islamists are just good revolutionary potentials.

    Anything which disrupts conventional life – capitalism, is good for the cause.

    • Seax

      Hard left: Only to the hard right that think giving a penny to a poor box is rabid communism.

      If you are so keen on capitalism, explain the socialist banking bailouts and why you want to end the NHS.

      • Knight of Tipton

        But, I’m not wrong.

        • Seax

          So what ‘devils’ have the Hard Left done deals with?

          Know that for every one you suggest I can suggest one for the righties.

          Shall I start?

          The Tories gave £1b in support to Saddam Hussain so he could build up his armed forces. Then we had a war with him.

          Your turn.

          • Knight of Tipton

            Who says I’m a tory?

          • Seax

            OK: feel free to change ‘Tory’ for ‘hard right’ if you like.

          • Knight of Tipton

            Sure, what ever you like.

          • Seax

            Bonus: The ‘hard right’ handed Saddam tanks to build up his armed forces. Later, we had a war with him.

            Come on, I haven’t even started yet. You are behind.

          • Knight of Tipton

            I like they way you assume without me even saying.

            The Left’s proletariat did not behave as they wished. It’s sitting watching Jeremy Kyle, or Big Brother..

            .. now they look to Islam.

          • Seax

            You say that in your first sentance and then you ‘assume’ the behaviours of huge swathes of the UK population.

            Oh well. I doubt this conversation is worth the effort.

            Time for work.

          • Knight of Tipton

            Have a good day.

          • William Brown

            Oh, yes…it was a hard right Gov’t who went to war with Saddam. You’re right, you haven’t even started yet.

          • JabbaPapa

            It’s only logical — Saddam was such a darling lefty, wasn’t he ?

          • Seax

            I would have thought him authoritarian right, personally.

          • Hybird

            Why then did he get virtually all his military hardware from the Communist states?

          • Seax
          • JabbaPapa

            aaaah, thanks, loo paper’s running a bit low

          • Seax

            Because the usual suppliers refused him?

          • Seax

            After all, we are forced to beg the Commies for nukes. Tory Begging, natch.

          • William Brown

            Well, he was a totalitarian despot, so, in that sense, yes he was.

          • Seax

            When to war sending our troops into battle against those that the right wing parties had propped up for years.

            Where do you think they got the idea for the Iron Man movie?

            Saddam was fine for the righties when he was only oppressing his own people but when he got out of his box and threatened oil wealth then the ‘New East India Company’ attacked.

          • JabbaPapa

            Where do you think they got the idea for the Iron Man movie?

            From the original 1960s Iron Man Comic, where a former US ally decides to turn against that country, kidnap Tony Stark, and try & force him to build a weapon to help destroy America.

            … and perhaps from less naïveté than you exhibit, in realising that all alliances, no matter how long-standing, are temporary in nature. (which, ultimately, is what they’ll carve on the tombstone of the EU)

          • Seax

            I said ‘movie’ not comic. You either did not watch it or lack the ability to undersand the point I was making.

            In the movie, Tony Stark was nearly killed by munitions that his company made that had been sold to terrorist organisations by his company.

            I would have thought that was an obvious analogy.

          • JabbaPapa

            I said ‘movie’ not comic. You either did not watch it or lack the ability to undersand the point I was making.

            Your failure to understand that the movie was directly based on the comic, albeit modernised where it had to be, is not my responsibility.

            You fail to comprehend that your points will not be automatically agreed with just because you happen to be opining.

            sold to terrorist organisations by his company

            Paramilitary organisation, actually. Didn’t you see it ?

          • Seax

            Oh look, when the corporatist right supplies weapons to terrorists they are not terrorists.

            I could not have asked for a better response.

          • JabbaPapa

            Oh look, when the corporatist right supplies weapons to terrorists they are not terrorists.

            Crikey — people hanging about in military gear in overt military order but independent of any National Army are ***paramilitary*** regardless of your cretinous posturing.

          • Seax

            Excuses. I saw ‘STARK’ on the missile.

          • JabbaPapa

            /face-palm/

          • Seax

            You are avoiding the use of the word ‘terrorist’? Seems so.

          • JabbaPapa

            No I jolly well am not, you indoctrinated & monomaniacally blinkered nincompoop.

            Terrorist organisations and paramilitary ones are not one and the same thing just because you get the heeby-jeebies from the “t” word.

          • Seax

            I us e’hard right’ in te same cavalier way that the righties use ‘hard left’ when they desist then so will I.

          • JabbaPapa

            The ‘hard right’ handed Saddam tanks to build up his armed forces

            I think you’ll find that it was the USA, over the course of multiple presidential mandates.

          • Seax

            They may have done as well but Thatcher also did so.

          • JabbaPapa

            Well if everyone and their pet dog was sending him tanks, why do you accuse the “hard right” only ?

          • Seax

            Are you suggesting that the US Government that supported Saddam was hard left?

            I am surprised.

          • JabbaPapa

            Lyndon Johnson, Democrat, was the one who helped him into power in 1963.

            The Carter administration encouraged his invasion of Iran.

            The Reagan and Bush Sr administrations assisted him.

            It looks like since 1963, **only** the Clinton administration, in the wake of the first Gulf War, considered him as anything other than the enemy.

            So again — if everyone and his pet dog was sending him tanks, why single out the “hard right”, except for some partisan political agenda of your own ?

          • Seax

            Because the ‘hard right’ want to claim that they are blameless and faultless. That they never support terror regimes. Even when they end up killing our own people in wars.

            Look at what they say about Corbyn for ‘partisan political’ reasons. He has not given anyone tanks and yet he is a supporter of terror?

            Please.

          • JabbaPapa

            Corbyn … has not given anyone tanks

            Personally, I wouldn’t accept a second-hand bike off that man …

          • Seax

            Woooosh.

          • Hybird

            The hard right? Saddam’s tanks were all Soviet or Chinese made. So were his armoured cars apart from a few which were French and Brazilian made.

          • Seax

            Shows what you know. The history of rsupport for Saddam is long.

            Did the Soviets or Chinese try to smuggle a ballistic supergun to Saddam as well?

            Here is more fun:

            “London refused and – after flogging a number of its suddenly surplus tanks to Iran’s most bitter enemy in the shape of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq – the British government has for 30 years fought a little-noticed but bitter legal wrangle in an obscure international trade court based in the Netherlands to hold onto what remains of the Shah’s money.

            Until now.

            The Independent can reveal that Britain is to pay back nearly £400m to Iran’s defence ministry after finally admitting defeat in the dispute in a move that will be heralded by Tehran as a major diplomatic triumph while it continues its international brinkmanship with the West over its nuclear ambitions”.

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-mod-the-arms-deal-and-a-30-year-old-bill-for-pound400m-1952972.html

          • Seax

            The right don’t parade this sort of news much…

          • Hybird

            You can’t get round the fact that you claimed the “hard right” supplied Saddam with tanks when in the real world he got them from the Russians and Chinese.

            And as for the super-gun – it was built into a hillside and aimed at Israel. The Russians and Chinese didn’t try to smuggle it in and neither did “the hard right.” That was down to Saddam.

          • Seax

            So where did the UK £1b of support go?

            You do not want to admit that the UK and US supported teh Iraq regime for decades. Do you.

          • Hybird

            I’m not saying they didn’t support Saddam. I’m saying you were wrong when you said the “hard right” gave Saddam his tanks. And you were.

          • Seax

            So you are saying Saddam did not get tansk from the UK? So where did they go? They went to Iraq.

            Oh, you means if Saddam buys tanks from other countries then that was bad but if he got them from the UK that was fine.

          • Hybird

            What make were these British tanks? I’m not saying it is fine for Saddam to be given UK tanks – I’m saying the UK tanks did not exist.

          • Seax

            Cheiftain. You can read the article. It points out all of the assistance that the UK have given Saddam since the 70’s.

            Bricks build on bricks. Every bit of help we gave helped him to kill our boys.

          • Hybird

            “During Baghdad’s prolonged and bloody invasion of Iran in the 1980s, the inquiry discovered, officials shredded documents after deliberately smuggling Chieftain tank hulls made by the then royal ordnance factories to Iraq via Jordan”.

            So a handful tank hulls ( no guns) went in the late 70s or early 80s to be used in the Iran/Iraq war? And you are saying these were used to kill our boys? Strange that none of our forces ( and I know people who were there) reported seeing any Iraqi Chieftains – just loads and loads of Soviet stuff.

          • Seax

            Oh so that is all right then. If we supply arms to enemies it is OK as long as they do not use them against us.

            So are you annoyed that they did not use British weapons to kill our lads?

          • Seax

            Thatwas just extra stuff to the £1b of support.

            So our troops being killed by foreign weapons is better?

            I think we should tell our lads that.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Be a man, just admit when you’re wrong. Now apologise.

  • SkyBluePM

    I get the contempt for Toby Young, and his support of giving the vote to Corbyn to weaken the labour party, but think of this. Had this not happened, we wouldn’t have been able to get the front row seat at just how out of touch, and quite frankly dangerous the ultra left is!

    Corbyn cannot hide his contempt for this country. From inviting the IRA terrorists into parliament, to calling Bin Laden’s death a tragedy, this man is a truly odious individual.

    May will be our first chance to show our contempt for his disgraceful actions. For those who lent their vote to Corbyn to weaken Labour, that will be the time it pays off!

    • Seax

      I am really getting bored with the ‘IRA to Parliament’ misrepresentation.

      Every time someone says that it shows:

      a) A lack of discrimination
      b)A willingness to believe anything they are told
      c) An astonishing lack of critical and logical thinking
      d) Or a desire to spread one-line smears.

      Ok: Test.. Would the CIVPOL allow the IRA into the HOC? Having done this, would they allow the organiser to walk away from such an action?

      Pfft. The right just want to hoodwink.

      What usually happens how is the right will post a picture of Corbyn and Jerry Adams so I will post a link of Thatcher and Gadaffi to compensate if they like.

      • Seax

        Here we go: Rightwing-style proof that Thatcher was a terrorist simpathiser.

        http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/margaretthatcherarafat.jpg

        • Hybird

          What has a picture of Thatcher next to Ringo Starr with a towel on his head got to do with anything?

      • alfredo

        I think you’ll find that the gentleman on the left in the picture you’ve posted was called Arafat.

      • The_greyhound

        I expect you are getting bored. And humiliated. And rattled.

        Corbyn is a friend and apologist of terrorism, worldwide. The truth hurts, but there it is.

        • Seax

          I am not rattled because it is not truth.

          It is dogma paraded around by those that want to undermine any challenge to the Age of Austerity (for the poor).

          Curiously, the most ardent supporters seem to be afflicted by austerity but believe that this is cased by some nebulous group that exists in their on minds.

          • Paul Robson

            You think this is austerity, you haven’t seen anything yet.

          • Seax

            I know, we still have ages to go before Osborne gets to enact the full ‘Plan Ozimandias’.

            I look forward to seeing the rightwingers who find themselves hit by it looking all confused. ‘But, but the Tories are supposed to be on MY side…’

          • Paul Robson

            No, not that. We still haven’t adjusted from Labour’s insane spending beyond our means. It’s been adjusted *slightly* – reduced by about a third. It’s not real austerity – spending going up not as fast isn’t austerity. A lot of the knock ons of these are being hidden – protected might be better – by near zero interest rates.

            Austerity is the Welsh valleys in the 1980s, if you like. Austerity is not having to settle for a 32Gb new Iphone rather than a 64Gb one.

            Because we’re still borrowing sh*tloads when the USA and China adjust properly we will be hit by the tailwind.

  • Seax

    I do wonder if the right are blind to the actions of Communist oppressive regimes and arab states that execute their citizens because they dare to citicise them.

    I suppose that is the ‘wrong kind of evil’.

    • The_greyhound

      As an exponent and a supporter of evil, perhaps you could explain the difference between, say, the murderous escapades of Stalin, Mao. and Pol Pot, all socialists in good standing with the crew of moral imbeciles in charge of the Labour Party.

      • Seax

        You would claim them to be socialists but to me they are just authoritarian dictatorships.

        Would you like to explain why North Korea is ‘democratic’? You do understand that authortarian regimes like to use lables as cover for their actions?

        Also, smearing people with the ‘supported of evil’ brush lacks class.

        Those support evil if their actions allow evil to take place. I resist evil. For example; I see it as evil to force people back to work on the day they die whilst telling them that they are fit to work.

        That is evil isn’t it?

        • JabbaPapa

          No true scotsmen, eh ?

          How about the socialists who decided to go off and kill close to 7,000 Catholic priests in Spain in the 1930s, plus sundry tens of thousands of other Catholics ?

          • Seax

            And the socialists that fought against fascism in the same country whilst the righties let the regime get on with it?

            So where are the Cathars now? If we are discussing the murder of priests, lets hear what happened to theirs.

            Oh, and the Inquisition? That was big in Spain wasn’t it?

          • JabbaPapa

            And the socialists that fought against fascism in the same country

            Yep, that’s the bunch that went round murdering all those people.

          • Seax

            So where are the Cathars again? A whole people?

            You are being selective.

          • JabbaPapa

            No, NOT a “whole people”. They were a fanatical & violent sect of pagans living amongst the local, non-Cathar, population (whose descendants still live there to this day)

            But — I’ve responded to that one elsewhere already today, and sorry, I’d not normally do this, but I’d rather prefer to avoid simultaneous parallel conversations on the some pseudo-subject.

          • Seax

            A very catholic description.

            The ‘good men’ and ‘good women’ were not fanatical or violent and proclaimed the poverty of Christ,

            If you claim otherwise then explain the Dominican order?

            That is, if you have any idea what you are talking about and what I meant by my last statement.

          • Seax

            “Killing was abhorrent to the Cathars.”Consequently, abstention from all animal food (sometimes exempting fish) was enjoined of the Perfecti. The Perfecti avoided eating anything considered to be a by-product of sexual reproduction. War and capital punishment were also condemned—an abnormality in Medieval Europe. In a world where few could read, their rejection of oath-taking marked them as social outcasts”

            Wiki.

          • Seax

            Where are the Cathars today?

          • Hybird

            Cowboys?

          • JabbaPapa

            C’est les cagoux, les cafalos, et les còlis.

          • JabbaPapa

            “Killing was abhorrent to the Cathars.”

            Well they didn’t seem to mind murdering priests, burning their churches, and throwing their books into the fire.

            their rejection of oath-taking

            … boiled down to non-recognition of marriage, so any woman they fancied, fair game. Bet your hagiographic article over at Wikipedia fails to mention the Cathars as a loony s€x cult.

            They used this oath-taking snake oil to worm their way into the graces of many local landed knights and lordlings though, who saw it as a handy little tax dodge.

            And no, they were most certainly NOT non-violent, given that the local nobility used the emergence of this new (BTW rather Islam-like) religion to try and wrest more political power for themselves away from their own Lords and the Church.

            The Church attempted to find peaceful solutions for over a hundred years. Bet you’ve never heard that before, either — none of these “ooooh the poooooor Cathars” anti-Catholic boneheads have listened to anything except anti-Catholic propaganda.

            The military solution was NOT mandated by “the Church” — it was the French Monarch and especially his southern Lords who decided upon it, and the main motivation for the King was military and political. To regain military and political control over the region.

            (meanwhile, just as a reminder of the broader European situation, half of Spain is still under the control of Arabs)

            Western civilisation was under direct threat, and the Cathars were a part of that menace.

            The Crusade as it was launched eventually was NOT “against the Cathars” — as if these were even a people in the first place, which they weren’t — it was against the lords and knights who were in rebellion against their liege lords and against the Church in support of this neo-Zoroastrian Heresy, as well as against the “priests” of the cult.

            But it was a pretty poorly organised army, some in the leadership seeking extermination, others wanting simply to reimpose order, and large numbers who had joined just for the chance at some looting and pillaging. Here in a nutshell are the causes of the disaster.

            This war was however, quite clearly political — so that when the army turned up at Béziers to demand the imprisonment of the rebellious leaders and Cathar “priests”, Béziers, including its Catholics, responded politically by treating them as a foreign enemy army. They end up being slaughtered, “cathar” and Catholic alike, and the majority in Béziers were Catholics.

            This really was, then, just another local mediaeval political/military dispute turned bad, as there are countless examples thereof — and if these cathars hadn’t decided to murder a Papal envoy and his retinue, Rome would likely never have been involved in the first place.

            From there on, the war gets more and more complex, more and more political — involving Lordly alliances and feudal legalisms and whatnot having exactly nothing in common with the ludicrous “genocide of the poor cathars” bollocks you’ve been ranting on about.

            Remember this though — in whatever lists of numbers you see of the “cathars” who died, remember that most of those dead were Catholics who had been put into the firing line of this war by the foolishness of some local lordlings who got conned by the Cathar “priests” into thinking they could screw as many women as they liked because marriage “didn’t exist”, and could live this jolly hedonistic existence tax-free because their oths to their Lieges “didn’t exist”.

            If only the Cathars themselves, and the rebellious lords who supported them, had been killed — the death toll would have been minuscule.

            It was a political war over control of the territory. Not a brutal mechanistic genocide nor anything else so ludicrous nor anachronistic.

          • Mr B J Mann

            But the left don’t keep going on about pre 20th century history (OK,they do, especially when it concerns evil capitalists and t’workers).

            However they do keep boasting about how they or their parents fought in Spain.

            While forgetting the priests, and even rival socialist sect members, they killed!

          • red2black

            Catholics and Muslims fighting alongside each other in support of a Nationalist rebellion that refused to accept a democratically elected government.

          • JabbaPapa

            a democratically elected government

            … that was organising atheist death squads to mass murder the Catholic clergy into oblivion.

          • red2black

            There were death squads on both sides, further complicated by Stalinists operating against Anarchists and other Libertarian Leftists. Likewise, Catholicism, allied to Nationalism and Fascism, was keen to obliterate ‘The Reds’. Franco started the Civil War and Franco finished it. There were many events leading up to the Civil War that polarised and radicalised much in Spanish politics – usually State police and military actions against the Spanish working class – such as at Casas Viejas. Present-day Marinaleda is an example of a Leftist village where those who wish to worship are free to do so in the local church. Things are better that way.

          • JabbaPapa

            There were death squads on both sides

            What, including between 1934 and 1936 when the atheists first started their campaign of murder against the clergy but before Franco took up arms against them ?

            Your “democratically elected government” of Spain was engaged in a brutal and vicious campaign of State terrorism against the Catholic Church.

            And does anyone else need reminded of another “democratically elected government” of Germany, in the same period, starting its own campaign of ghastly atheist violence against religion ?

            Atheism made an attempt stretvhing between the Atlantic and Siberia

          • red2black

            ISIS? Muslims, like those that fought alongside Catholic, Nationalist and Fascist troops in support of Franco. The man himself organised the use of Moorish troops against the Republic. Find out about how badly the agricultural peasants and industrial workers had been regarded and treated by the clergy, landowners, the civil guard, employers, etc. The State and its adherents had always used violence against the workers to keep them in their place – not just for a couple of years – but for centuries.
            As for Germany, all the churches remained open throughout the war, with much of the clergy supporting Hitler and Mussolini purely because they were anti-Atheist, anti-Communist, and anti-Jewish. German infantry belt-buckles bore the legend ‘Gott Mit Uns’, and clergy were allocated to Panzer divisions and other military units. Hitler was a religious man, who, however misguided, believed he was doing God’s work, as his writings and speeches show.

          • JabbaPapa

            Muslims, like those that fought alongside Catholic, Nationalist and Fascist troops

            Muslims, like those of the North African Maghreb who helped hide Jews from the N@zis, you mean ?

            The State and its adherents had always used violence against the workers to keep them in their place

            Are you attempting to justify the mass murdering of Catholic priests and religious by the atheist death squads ?

            As for Germany, all the churches remained open throughout the war, with much of the clergy supporting Hitler and Mussolini

            You’ve filled the inside of your skull with so much religious hatred and propaganda that you’ve no room left over inside for anything else.

            The Catholic Party in Germany was the Conservative Party, which was outlawed just like everyone except the N@zis.

            Thousands of German priests were carted off to the death camps.

            Meanwhile, you continue, obviously, to have NO UNDERSTANDING of what it is to have a priestly vocation.

          • red2black

            Hatred and propaganda? Like Franco issuing Spanish passports to Hungarian Jews for example? If you’d care to explain the plethora of photographs of clergy giving the Fascist salute, and the role of people like Cardinal Stepanic, I’d be ever so grateful. Of course it was a mixed bag of who was on which side. What you say about the Catholic Party in Germany was also true of the democratic Socialists and what happened to them. Some Socialists were Athiests, but many were not. It’s a mixed picture – much to the chagrin of people who prefer to perceive things in simplistic black and white terms. I’m sure you’ll feel similarly aggrieved for all the Reds, and everyone else – Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Gipsies, homosexuals, Resistance groups – who were carted off to the death camps as well. No need for the ‘shouty’ capitals.

          • JabbaPapa

            I’m sure you’ll feel similarly aggrieved for … everyone else … who were carted off to the death camps as well

            Obviously, you moron — but I’m not the one posting propaganda that some of the victims of Hitler’s death machine “supported” it.

            If you’d care to explain the plethora of photographs of clergy giving the Fascist salute

            I’ve already stated elsewhere, on this topic, that there are to this day many franquistos among the more elderly of Spain’s clergy.

            I’m not the one peddling a black & white perspective — you are, and others. I just wish that **some** of you at least might give up on the mindless anti-Catholic one-sidedness of your positions whenever **any** conflict comes under discussion.

          • red2black

            There was nothing ‘obvious’ in what you’d posted – and you brought the German NS into the discussion. There were Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Muslims etc, who supported Hitler, just as there were many that did not. The photographs
            I mentioned show much more than only Spanish clergy.
            As for one-sidedness, I’ve already stated that in the Leftist village of Marinaleda, today, people are free to worship at the local church, which is the way things ought to be.
            No need for name-calling.

          • JabbaPapa

            There was nothing ‘obvious’ in what you’d posted

            It’s hardly my fault if your indoctrination causes you to assume extremism in anyone who disagrees with you.

          • red2black

            Indoctrination? I don’t assume extremism in people, whether I disagree with them or not.

  • Fasdunkle

    “The hard left had so much in common with the Islamists — a history of fighting colonialism”

    Islamists have a history of fighting for colonialism too, islamism is a colonialist and imperialist ideology. The muslim brotherhood want to recreate the colonial caliphate

    The hard left enable and appease islamo-fascism because they believe it to be a way to foment revolution after which the socialists will step in and take over – they are blind to the facts – islamo-fascists when they achieve power wipe out socialists.

    • JabbaPapa

      a history of fighting colonialism

      What he means, of course, is “a common history of slaughtering Catholics”.

      • Seax

        Catholics used to slaughter other Christians. Just ask any Cathars you know.

        You don’t know any? I wonder why.

        • JabbaPapa

          The Cathars were actually a non-Christian and BTW extremely violent sect of pagans (there was some syncretism of Christian origin, but they utterly denied His Divinity in favour of their own more sensualist cosmology).

          The actions of the French Monarchy against them were most certainly greatly exaggerated, but then this was pretty much the same gang who decided to go and pillage Byzantium instead of (less profitably) protecting Christians from the Islamic terror in the Holy Land.

          • Seax

            A very Catholic analysis.

            So where are the Cathars now? Pray tell.

        • johnb1945

          Other than trolling @disqus_0G5SkXWA23:disqus what point is this comment trying to make?

          If you lay it out clearly perhaps it can be addressed.

          Unless you are expressing some comfortable prejudice which you do not wish to have addressed?

  • William Brown

    They are both totalitarian. Don’t be surprised if they form a coalition.

    • Fasdunkle

      in many ways they already have.

      • Seax

        Only in the fevered minds of those that consume the rightwing press.

        The most ‘authoritarian’ of the main parties is the Tories. Don’t forget that. Rightwing authoritarianism ain’t pretty either.

  • AdrianM

    The human race is cursed by too much and, at the same time, not quite enough intelligence.

  • Seax

    “Tories have forgotten that Thatcher wasn’t just a terrorist sympathiser, but close friends with one”.

    “Whatever his views, Corbyn has never wielded the levers of power in government, and has never done more than put forward ideas. Yet if we look to the icon of conservative politics and “keeping Britain safe”, we have someone with a well-documented history of being a terrorist sympathiser. During her time as Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher openly called a terrorist a “true friend”, invited a terrorist into her home for tea, and personally lobbied against a terrorist’s prosecution for war crimes“.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html

    • whs1954

      One of those lovely left-wing arguments, beautiful, only problem is when they face reality. Since when was Pinochet a terrorist? He was the head of state of a sovereign nation.

      • Seax

        So if a country has a head of state and they commit acts of terrorism then that is OK to you.

        What if that country commits acts of terror in Britain? Will you brush it off and say ‘that was not terrorism’?

        • avisitor

          But he was a neocon and hostile tothe Unions, so his murders were just a little peccadillo to the likes of Toby Young. he would probably have supported his free school movement.

          • Seax

            Imagine two terrorists. One is a normal terrorist and one is a State terrorist. They have one gun.

            They decide to shoot twin brothers. One terrorist shoots one and then hands the gun to his mate who shoots the other.

            To these righties the State terrorist was just fine doing this whilst the terrorist was an evil criminal who should be wiped out.

          • JabbaPapa

            You’re barmy

          • Seax

            I am just pointing out right wing logic.

            So i can understand why you might think that. It is ‘barmy’, isn’t it…

          • JabbaPapa

            “right-wing logic” from a loony lefty point of view ???

            It’s like, how many angels can be imprisoned and tortured on the head of a needle …

          • Seax

            So when is it OK to sell weapons to a terrorist?

          • JabbaPapa

            Is this some kind of trick question ? Never.

          • paradise 33

            How about selling weapons to states who bank-roll terror?

          • JabbaPapa

            Please don’t ask me to pretend to be some kind of expert on the realpolitik of international relations.

          • Seax

            So you admit to being ill informed?

            Let us help you…

          • Paul Robson

            No, you live in a lala land where realpolitik doesn’t exist ; same as Corbyn, sits on the backbenches and launches protests. In the real world you have to make actual decisions and live with the consequences ; the Lib Dems found that out the hardware.

          • JabbaPapa

            I’m not the one parading stupidity, shallowness, and ignorance for all to see, no. You are.

          • Seax

            Oh my yes. Quite.

        • Paul Robson

          How are things in Venezuela these days ?

      • red2black

        ‘The neoliberal economic model was, in fact, at the heart of the totalitarian project.’

        • David Murphy

          which totalitarian project, there have been many.

          • red2black

            Pinochet’s, as mentioned by whs1954 above.

    • evad666
    • David Murphy

      which so-called terrrorist?

  • Picquet

    You could very well be describing that great party of Peace, Provisional Sinn Fein.

  • Cobbett

    Salafism(Wahabbism) is somewhat older than the Muslim Brotherhood. It’s origins are in Saudi Arabia. The sort of regime these nutjobs want to export to Europe…Cuckservatives such as Young are not against mass immigration (it increases GDP after all) They cling to the ridiculous notion these people will become like us in time…and slowly W Europe dies.

  • Seax

    Let us think about the ‘Nazis’ for a moment.

    Was it not, after all, the 1930’s Socialists and Jews that were fighting the UK fascists in the streets of London whilst the rightwingers applauded the Brownshirts?

    As usual, the righties where nowhere to be seen when it came to standing up to the Nazis.

    History does not support this thesis.

    • The_greyhound

      Nor does it support the nonsense that the socialists were anything other than another unprincipled unscrupulous gang of power-hungry thugs. They would all loyally support Stalin’s 1939 alliance with Germany. Scumbags then, as now.

      • Seax

        So you agree that the right supported Hitler. OK. That is progress.

        Probably explains the racism today.

        I would like a reference for the statement you made. It would be interesting reading.

        • Cyril Sneer

          It’s not about race but culture. You’re too thick to see this, I pity you.

      • red2black

        ‘A significant current of the Democratic Socialist movement has defined itself in opposition to Stalinism. This includes George Orwell, H N Brailsford, Fenner Brockway, and the Independent Labour Party in Britain (particularly after World War II). There were also a number of anti-Stalinist socialists in France, including writers such as Simone Weil and Albert Camus, as well as the group around Marceau Pivert. In America, the New York Intellectuals around the journals Partisan Review and Dissent saw Soviet Communism as a form of totalitarianism, in some ways mirroring Fascism.’

        • Mr B J Mann

          That’s why the lefties hate Orwell.

          And the ILR had to be independent of the main Labour Party!

          • red2black

            Mr Orwell didn’t like things authoritarian and totalitarian, whatever their source.

          • Mr B J Mann

            But it’s the left that doesn’t like him.

            What does that tell you about the source of totalitarianism?!

          • red2black

            The source of totalitarianism? I’d suggest it goes way back before there was a political Left, although people like Stalin, who I’m sure Mr Orwell had in mind, were an expression of it in more recent times. I’m sure there are authoritarians and totalitarians on the Right who don’t like him as well.
            Orwell reflected that had he known what was really going on in the Spanish Civil War, he would have joined the Anarchists, who were dismissed as being ‘Fascist’ and ‘National Socialist’ by the authoritarian Left.

          • JabbaPapa

            The source of totalitarianism?

            In its modern form, Louis XIV of France, Freemasonry, and the Endarkenment.

          • red2black

            I’m sure there were religious and political regimes in Ancient times that were authoritarian and totalitarian, much as there are today.

          • JabbaPapa

            “totalitarian” means “aiming to the political control of every aspect of life”

            Well, political Islam is by definition totalitarian of course, and one thinks of the hieratic society of Ancient Mesopotamia, but really, in its modern form, it begins with “L’Etat, c’est moi.

            Not even Ancient Egypt, with the comparatively little we know of it, seems to have been totalitarian as such. Rome certainly wasn’t !!!

            (modern “liberal” multiculturalism certainly is tending towards totalitarianism)

  • avisitor

    what a disgracegful piece by a disgraceful human being

    • The_greyhound

      For those of us with a brain it reads like an accurate piece by a shrewd observer.

      But presumably your islamo-fascist masters feel otherwise.

      • Seax

        ‘Shrew observer’?

      • avisitor

        You are as foolish and bigoted as the author of this piece who has clearly not recovered from his excessive cocaine use in the 1990’s

  • Zalacain

    Germany has a long history of alliance with Islam. The Kaiser’s Germany tried to stir Islam against the British and French empires during WWI.

  • Fasdunkle

    Corbyn is a big supporter of the Finsbury Park mosque – built with saudi money and now run by the repressive, regressive, colonialist, imperialist, fascist muslim brotherhood

    • Seax

      So do you support the support that Saudi gets from rightwing parties?

      • Fasdunkle

        Nope, not at all. I would prefer us to have nothing whatsoever to do with the saudis

        • Seax

          So I would recommend you support the Labour party who wants to do what the Tories will not.

          • Fasdunkle

            The Labour party will eventually do what the unions tell them to do – and the unions are more than happy with the saudi deals.

            However there is a difference between actual governments doing deals with nasty regimes and a bloke who sat on the backbenches for 30 years while actively seeking out islamo-fascist NGOs to enable and appease.

          • Seax

            I advocate a balance betwen unions and non-unions. The reason for unions was exploitation. That is where we are heading to again.

            Indeed, one has done massive damage and even advocates bombing the innocent to make a political point.

          • Fasdunkle

            Corbyn is very keen on people who bomb innocents – in fact he actively enabled and appeased people who murdered my mother-in-law’s brother

          • Seax

            Then report him to the police. If you have evidence of this.

            Otherwise it is just ‘ ‘.

          • Fasdunkle

            his enablement and appeasement of those murderers is already widely known

          • Seax

            Wildy propagandised. Yes.

          • Rintintin

            Only a minor trawl on the ‘net reveals Corbyn’s sympathies for some very dubious Islamist groups. Wake up.

          • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

            People like you seem not to have noticed that we have moved on from the serfdom of workers which prevailed in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. As far as I know, employers these days don’t pay people in tokens to be spent in the factory shop where adulterated food is sold at inflated prices. As far as I know, in just about any town in the British Isles migrants arrive by the thousand and find work, and according to HMRC, over 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015 to people arriving in this country delightedly seeking work. By the way – if you think that wages are too low, which I might agree with if we were speaking about the legal minimum wage, how about leaving the EU and stopping migration from South Asia and cutting off the glut of keen cheap workers who have suppressed the growth of low skilled wage rates for years. If employers could not easily fill every vacancy at £6.70 an hour with foreign labour, wages would rise naturally, and the Chancellor would not have had to legislate a growth in wage rates to £9 an hour in 2020.

          • Rintintin

            No, they’d rather suck up the Islamist republic of Iran and various other Islamist groups (with their “strong points”) if the behaviour of the “Dear Leader” Jeremy is anything to go by. Dismal hypocrites.

          • mdj

            So did Labour break off relations with Saudi Arabia for the 13 years they were in power? I don’t recall it.
            Or do you trust politicians on the basis of what they say they WILL do?

  • Business Cat

    The points made here have been very apparent for a very long time.

    We have all known why the far-left & islamism are bed-fellows…
    They have a common enemy, ie: capitalist liberal democracies.

  • Paul W

    The line from the Nazis through the Muslim Brotherhood and general Islamism through to Hamas and Corbyn’s other fascist friends seems clear.

    Anyway, Corbyn and his associates are useless on so many levels – but at least there is comedy for the rest of us.

    £3 well spent.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      so Nazis and Muslims were allies in WW2. So were the Communists and the British, under Churchill. Can we now claim there is a ‘line from Stalin to Cameron’? I guess not, so why say stupid things like this?

      • Rintintin

        There is, plausibly, an ideolgical link between the fascism of the Nazis and the development of Islamism. There is no ideolgical link between Conservatism and Stalinism. Strewth, it’s not that difficult an argument to understand…well for most people.

        • red2black

          A pity in a way, because Stalin would have wiped out IS in short order.

        • Ipsedixit

          Very patient of you to try to explain that to someone who will definitely not want to learn.

      • Paul W

        There is no link between the wartime arrangements (Stalin/Churchill et al) and modern western leaders such as Cameron a Obama etc. To suggest as such is to exhibit an almost childish naivety in relation to the current geopolitical set up.

        What does matter is that current Islamic Fascists are at least as cruel as Hitler and his henchmen.

        In the dark future that these modern Nazis would have us enter, millions upon millions would die because they are Jewish, Infidel or homosexual. And their attitudes towards women are medieval and wicked beyond description.

        I trust you really do not agree/support these attitudes?

        Corbyn by talking to holocaust deniers and the general riff raff of terrorists and their supporters (as is his habit), has in the mindset of Lenin and the old communists become a useful idiot in the way CND and far/hard left agitators were in the middle of the last century.

        • Ipsedixit

          Of course he supports those attitudes

  • Liberanos

    It’s all right if it’s in the koran. Allahu Akbar, as we say in Paris.

    • rose white

      any Muslim who says ‘Allah’ is going to be destroyed when Jesus returns. This means all Muslims.

  • Polly Radical

    Himmler in particular was a great admirer of muslim ideology, which he perceived as being highly masculine and aggressive in nature.

    • Morris Jasper

      To be fair Himmler liked things all things being highly masculine and aggressive, but also, possibly incongruously, he had much time for Ley Lines as well.

  • Jonathan Paylor

    Early in this article you claim that Corbyn being taken out of context is used as an ‘excuse’ and proceeded to once again repeat those out-of-context quotes (to understand how they are out of context, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLb15UPqwxw ).

    You’ve claimed that during the recent Marr inteview Corbyn made remarks about “the need to begin a ‘dialogue’ with the leadership of the Islamic State”, this is completely untrue.

    What Corbyn actually said on this was as follows:

    Marr: “So we could have a dialogue with these people?”

    Corbyn: “No, dialogue is perhaps the wrong word to use, I think there has to be some understanding of where their strong points are, where their weak points are and how we can challenge their ideology. I believe the neighbouring governments in the region are in touch…”

    This answer was in response to Marr’s continued attempts to edge him into saying what he wanted about opening a dialogue with terrorists, he still didn’t fall into that trap and yet pathetic journalists like Toby Young decide to write articles lying about what he said, twisting words to fit their own narrative.

    Anyone wishing to look this up can find the interview on YouTube ( e.g. https://youtu.be/jVe5foPumHE?t=1169 19 minutes 30 seconds).

    Never take what you read as fact, especially when it comes to articles about Corbyn, always do a bit of fact checking & research yourself because there’s a lot of lies and deception out there in attempt to stop him.

    Oh and two can play at that game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPhTSBVV6-M

    • JabbaPapa

      Yep, so let’s all just sit on our hands and not go to war to defend anyone from being targeted for genocide then.

    • wildcolonialboy

      What on earth are you blathering on about? Precisely how is it out of context?

      Try to be specific pet

      • Paul Robson

        What they mean is “You won’t accept our interpretation of the context of what he said”.

        A bit like Abbott when having been caught on Twitter going on about white people playing divide and rule , and conveniently fantasising a context.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          there is only one context. One that Corbyn gives in the interview

          there is no room for interpretation there. If he says ‘I don’t support dialogue with IS’, that means just that.

          • Paul Robson

            This is the one above, which is very obviously edited. Why not simply show the whole thing ?

            Reminds me of the repeated lie about Cameron’s supposed promises on tax credits/benefits (Lefties conveniently leaving a bit out all the time), and of course, “there is no such thing as society”.

          • GraveDave

            Lol, the Tories are the masters of selective quotes and fake editing. As for Cameron and tax credits, don’t embarrass yourself. .

            Conservatives wipe all pre-election pledges from their website

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk › Technology

            13 Nov 2013 – Some of the speeches removed from the website contain pledges from the …. At a pre-election Cameron Direct event, the Tory leader issued this “read my lips” pledge: “I’m not …. T

            Ayes To The Left: David Cameron’s Lies Exposed!

            cameron-cloggysmoralcompass.blogspot.com/p/coalition-christmas.html

            On this page I am going to try and accumulate all Cameron’s lies (I know, I know it is a …. April 2010 – When in oppositionand shortly before the 2010 general election Cameronpromised: … Conservative Manifesto 2010 – Cameron said; … then being sent letters and informed they have been removed from the waiting lists.

  • balakris

    the desperation to discredit corbyn,issue in, issue out, is so obvious.
    he’s even attacked for being a vegetarian.

    • Fasdunkle

      he discredits himself

      • Nicholas_Keen

        exactly

  • balakris

    it’s a pity the tories are in the grip of chaps whose strength is pr.
    cameron and osborne come across as superficial and veneer with little knowledge and less vision.
    britain is distinctly unlucky in its leadership just at the time it grapples with the big issues of eu membership,scotland and migrants.

    • Ron Todd

      There is a good reason they come across as superficial it is because they are superficial.

    • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

      Is there something wrong with your ‘shift’ key, or is your apparent rejection of the normal conventions of capitalisation a sign of your revolutionary credentials?

  • Coleridge1

    Corbyn, McDonnell, Galloway, Milne, Livingstone and Abbot don’t represent the democratic-socialist Left. They represent a variant of fascism that goes hand-in-hand with Islamist anti-Semitism. That’s why Corbyn has long associated himself with Holocaust-Deniers, racists and Islamofascists like Hamas and Hezbollah.

    • paradise 33

      Yo Coleridge, been at the laudanum again have we?

    • Seax

      Rubbish.

      But I suppose the right have to have somethin to attack with, regardless how stupidly misrepresented.

      I wonder if this poster knows how they are being manipulated?

      • polidorisghost

        “I wonder if this poster knows how they are being manipulated?”

        But you’re not?

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      they are all social democrats. They have made some unwise associations that is true, but so have the tories.

      • David Murphy

        No they are not, they are of the extreme left. Corbin’s politics are very similar to Benn and Foot

        • Paul W

          Not quite – Foot and Benn were patriots (but of the left). Corbyn and his nasty little cabal are hard, hard left and are not patriots in any sense.

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    Corbyn explicitely _ruled out_ dialogue with IS in that interview beyond the level that it’s already happening. So the article is wrong out of the blocks.

    That, and the tired old ‘hard left’ which is also wrong means this article is a propaganda piece.

    • JabbaPapa

      the tired old ‘hard left’ which is also wrong

      true, the proper term is still “the loony left”, after all …

    • GraveDave

      Strange how for a loony lefty going nowhere, the Right obsesses over his every movement, squeak and far t

  • evad666

    Strange Corbyn visits Calais just as unrest breaks out?

    • Caviar luvvie

      Cockroaches thrive in chaos and filth.

      • GraveDave

        Cockroaches thrive in chaos and filth.8

        Been reading eppy Katie again have we?

        • Caviar luvvie

          random irrelevant and useless shiite= your post, your brain, your essence

    • GraveDave

      You’ve just out satired satire. Well done.Though going by some of your previous output, I doubt you’re quite bright enough to see how that works.

  • TrippingDwarves

    Greenmantle. Said it before. I’ll say it again.

  • JJD

    no, I don’t buy the theory that islamism is the offspring of Nazism. There may be affinities of personlity and purpose, but islamism has its own reasons, and its own, far deeper roots.

  • cromwell

    But successive British PMs including Thatcher while denouncing the IRA as evil were secretly holding talks with them via MI5. How is what Corbyn saying openly any different than what they did secretly?

    • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

      Corbyn sympathises with their cause; Thatcher was trying to convince them to stop.

      • GraveDave

        Yes, there’s Corby being friends with terrorists and there’s Maggie being friends with pedos. Perhaps she could have got Jim to fix it.

        • http://rantingoldgit.blogspot.co.uk/ Arthur Sparknottle

          Which paedps do you mean? Do you have any names in mind?

  • http://www.telegraph.co.uk SwingState

    It’s like keeping velociraptors as pets. These lefties are off their rockers.

  • anotherjoeblogs


    It’s beginning to look as though the Labour leader really does sympathise with terrorists ”

    Wow ! Gambling in Casablanca !!!! I am shocked.

  • Nicholas_Keen

    And what about his holding previously undisclosed talks with the Argentine ambassador about power sharing? Sowing the seed of those expectations puts British lives in danger and undermines the British state. It’s treason.

  • Chris Hobson

    Corbyn is a middle class virtue signalling do gooder.

  • JabbaPapa

    Corbyn’s comments on the Falklands are blatantly treacherous —

    He’s definitely contravening the Treason Act 1351 : adhering to the sovereign’s enemies, giving them aid and comfort, in the realm or elsewhere

    and 1848 : to “move or stir” any foreigner to invade the United Kingdom or any other country belonging to the sovereign

    The penalties for it are : imprisonment for life or for any shorter term, disqualification from public office, and loss of suffrage (except in local elections) ; no long imprisonment should be needed, but the second punishment would clearly fit the crime.

    • Robert Kelly

      He wants Britain to not be one most hated nations on earth so he’s giving up her imperial colonies this reduce nationalist terrorism.

      • http://www.ophiuchuscube.com/ Hendrik

        The Falklands were British BEFORE Argentina even existed. You fool!

        • Robert Kelly

          Oh I know not saying they should be handed back just saying what he thinks.

      • Ipsedixit

        I’ve been all over the world and haven’t found anyone who hates Britain. Are you sure it wasn’t you they hated?

        • Robert Kelly

          Argentina does over Falklands I certainly don’t hate Britain that what your implying.

        • Rufus Chucklebutty

          He he good one !

    • Malcolm Stevas

      ..to “move or stir” any foreigner to invade the United Kingdom or any other country belonging to the sovereign..
      This seems applicable to successive UK governments that have facilitated or even encouraged invasion through mass immigration over the past half-century and more. It would be satisfying to see a few dozen former PMs and Cabinet members dangling from ropes – perhaps at Tyburn.

      • Pioneer

        Careful what you wish for.

        You have a chance to get out of the EU and avoid the impending catastrophe. Otherwise things look set to get very nasty.

        • Malcolm Stevas

          Yes, I’m always (well, usually) careful. Yes, I’m very aware of that chance, and I just hope sufficient numbers of my fellow voters are too – and that they vote to leave.

    • Pioneer

      Same applies to Cameron.

  • rose white

    Luckily all Muslims will be destroyed when Jesus returns soon as they all worship one of Satan’s alter egos – Al-lah the old moon-god.

    • Robert Kelly

      Well, obviously your a Christian nutter with low IQ they believe Jesus is the messiah they believe that he wasn’t crucified that the difference Jesus isn’t coming back because he was a Fraud.

      • rose white

        You will die along with al the Muslims for calling God a liar.

        • Miss Floribunda Rose

          There is no God. You have wasted your life believing in nonsense. Good. Serves you right.

          • Ipsedixit

            and you know this, how?

          • Miss Floribunda Rose

            God told me…..

          • GraveDave

            And you’re a very mean spirited individual, aren’t you? Still, I expect it’s all in keeping with your own nonsense views. especially if they’re in keeping with Toby’s.

          • Miss Floribunda Rose

            I have no views.

          • rose white

            LOL that is true

          • rose white

            I’ll paraphrase your childihness: There is a God. You have wasted your life believing in nonsense. Good. Serves you right.
            Actually as a Christian it is my duty to tell you to look for
            Jesus so you too can have eternal life with him.

        • Ipsedixit

          That isn’t Christian teaching.

          • rose white

            You will die for calling God a liar as He says quite specifically that idolaters ie Muslims will die when Jesus returns.

          • rose white

            Maybe you should try reading a Bible?

        • Cyril Sneer

          Whoever said God was loving and forgiving eh.

          • rose white

            Christians are allowed to tell the truth – you might try it sometime?

          • rose white

            why do you hide behind a childish name – why can’t you be proud to use your proper name to post your beliefs?

        • Robert Kelly

          Ok nutter why don’t check your self into mental hospital did you forget to take your meds. As I said Muslims all of them believe Jesus is the messiah just do not think he God or Son of God.

          • rose white

            Like I said you will die along with all your Muslims friends for calling God and Jesus liars.

          • rose white

            LOL You will die for calling God a liar.

      • GraveDave

        As a miracle worker and fraud, he still ranks way behind George Osborne.

        • Robert Kelly

          Who does.

      • rose white

        You will die when he does come back for calling God a liar.

      • rose white

        You’re a non-Christian nut with an IQ so low it prohibits you understand that Jesus’s existence, preaching and execution by the Jews was well recorded by the ruling authorities.
        Your ignorance may be bliss but it will see you slaughtered along will all Muslims when Jesus returns..

    • Ipsedixit

      Moslems won’t be destroyed but will see the light and turn to Christ.

      • rose white

        LOL No, that is one thing they will not do.
        They have Islam beaten into them as children and it is impossible to overcome that painful brainwashing.

        • red2black

          Children have all sorts of political and religious doctrines beaten into them.

          • rose white

            Clearly you are still a baby and not old enough to try learning anything?

          • red2black

            Your comments have taught me that Islam is more powerful than Christianity: ‘it is impossible to overcome that painful brainwashing’. Thanks for that.

          • rose white

            all muslims are walking dead

          • red2black

            I’m not religious.

          • rose white

            Islam is more powerful at the moment but when Jesus returns every Muslim will be slaughtered.

        • Dominic Stockford

          What? God can save whomsoever He chooses, He is God, after all. Sadly I doubt that He has chosen many of these. However, some will be saved.

          • rose white

            Yes, possibly, but at the moment I and many other Christians find that talking to Muslims is talking to brick walls – plus every Muslim who kneels and prays to Al-lah is actually practising idolatry and as every Muslim sneers at the idea that Jesus is God’s Son and was raised to heaven they are all liars – and as every Muslim claims that Mud the dirty pdophile, murdered, thief, liar, idolator, warmonger was taken to heaven by God they are lying again and guilty of breaking every commandment.

      • rose white

        Satan has blinded all Muslims and they will all die when Jesus returns.

    • De Doc

      How does that help Europe in the here and now? Christians have been waiting for imminent return of Jesus for 1900+ yrs, so pinning your hopes on This event as a viable answer seems naively optimistic. It seems to me that running out the scoundrels from governmental is the first order of the day followed by stricter immigration control. Absent that, you’d better start training and preparing for the violence and chaos to soon come.

      • rose white

        We are not allowed to practice violence – our leaders have sold out to Satan.

        • De Doc

          Even in self defense? I know, I know… per Matthew 5:39 or Luke 6:29, offer/turn the other cheek deal. That of course only encourages these creeps, because in general they have shown themselves incapable of being shamed for their violent ways. Sooner or later this conflict will come, assuming the politicians won’t radically change course. And then there will be but a few choices, namely resistance, conversion, or death.

          • rose white

            yes, the choice will be kneel and pray to ‘Al-lah’ the old arab lump of stone or lose your head.
            At the moment they get that choice the vast majority of today’s ‘Muslim lovers’ will regret welcoming them all with open arms.
            I rather think that by then most people will have stretched out their right hand to accept the mark of the beast in order to get the money to pay for their junk food and junk television and will think it perfectly acceptable to kneel before Satan’s alter ego.

          • De Doc

            I prefer to fight it. Remaining passive and letting ‘the scriptures unfold’ is one of the more nihilistic views that I just can’t abide.

          • rose white

            so you are fighting behind a childish nom de plume? why not grow up and proudly use your real name?

      • rose white

        No, your answer cannot be applied and as you choose to ignore the Bible you cannot understand the schedule.

    • Rufus Chucklebutty

      If Jesus returns he will have to convince the pope and all the established churches to give up their positions, cozy life, and money. He will be dead within a week.

      • rose white

        You will remember you wrote and blasphemed him just before he strikes you dead – until then enjoy your childish sneering behind your childish nomdeplume.

      • rose white

        No, Jesus has the power of God to help him.

  • Robert Kelly

    Good old Corybn and Galloway looking out for Britain interest maybe they turn Britain into a liked nation instead a hated nation it is.

  • Liberanos

    I believe he’s not so much in favour of them, he’s just rather against Britain, the US and Israel.

    • Jules Wright

      Rarely has the phrase “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” been truer than in the case of Leonid Jezhnev.

  • Wee Mental Davie

    It’s pretty clear now that Corbyn has no policies of any value. His only goal is revenge for years on the freak sideshow, where no one paid any attention to him or his other fruitloops. He’s only going to try and destroy as much as he can before the party boot him out. Trouble is, he seems to be making quite a lot of damage as it is and Cameron being the man of complete inaction, only throws slight insult at the opposite benches. Useless as an EU renegotiation of terms.

    • rose white

      I’m ashamed to be British when I see the childish sneering across the table at PM question time.

      • Wee Mental Davie

        It doesn’t make me ashamed to be British. It just shows what complete pratts the Westminster mob are.

        The problem is though, that Corbyn is such a joke of a man, that the pratts on the Tory side can’t control themselves. Not that it’s limited to them mind.

        When you have a speaker like we have, pompous little git, who only seems interested in himself, no wonder there is no control.

        The only reps in Westminster are the DUP. They have style and dignity and I wish they were my political voice in parliament, instead of the vile republican SNP.

        • Dominic Stockford

          Yes, the DUP have some cogency.

        • rose white

          Yes, I was amazed when Corbyn popped up last year!
          Now I see he is intent on repeating Blair’s Disaster and telling the French to ship all their immigrants here?

  • Tom M

    “…Islamism was transformed into a mass movement by the Nazis in the 1930s
    and 1940s to foment anti-British insurrection in the Middle East….”
    I’m pondering that and thinking it ascribes too much to the Nazis and too little to the Muslims. I would have argued that Banna and the Mufti were quite fixed in their anti-semitic views and objectives long before the Nazis arrived. It was they who made approaches to the Nazis for assistance not the other way round. The Muslim Waffen SS, I suggest, was more a creation of their country than of their religion. It was incidental that they were Muslims.
    German attempts to create unrest for the British in the Middle East wasn’t new in the 1930s. They had a whole well funded organisation ran by a man called Max von Oppenheim which had the objective of stirring up all of the Muslims under British rule to start a jihad before and during WW1.

  • Guy

    Jeremy Corbyn is not ‘hard left’, he is mainstream Labour, as are the supporters of Momentum and The Labour Party. My background, as a supporter of both, for instance is with the old Liberal Party. There are nowhere near that number, hundreds of thousands, of ‘hard left’ people in the country! Islamacists, Islamacism is a fascist idealogy, as is corporate monopoly capitalism. Both are authoritarian and illiberal. As is Zionism and the idealogy behind the KKK in America, the John Birch Society, Koch brothers sponsored Tea Party and now The Republican Party in the USA. Increasingly the current conservative party is succumbing to the same fascoism; Ian Duncan Smith for instance has well publicised links with the extreme right in this country. Each has to be countered in their own time. In my political struggle I’ve fought Labour at the polls and won, conspired with one-nation conservatives to defeat Thatcherites and linked arms with communists against the SWP in CND. ISIS itself is clearly a coalition between US and UK trained mercenaries, local patriots and religious zealots up front a a terrorist tactic. Painting things only in black and white obscures all the key detail and serves to blame the victims and exonerate the bullies.

    • JabbaPapa

      Painting things only in black and white

      … seems to be your speciality.

      ISIS itself is clearly a coalition between US and UK trained mercenaries, local patriots and religious zealots

      ISIS was in fact created by ex secret service men from Saddam’s régime. Do keep up !!!

      • Guy

        Yes, ISIS was created by Saddam’s spooks and Saddam himself was put in place by the CIA, and was the USA’s man in the middle East until he ‘went native’, do keep up!

        • JabbaPapa

          And how exactly does this contrived scenario magically transform the average high street suicide terrorist into a “US and UK trained mercenary” ?????

          I think you’re just confusing them with Al Qaeda.

          • Guy

            Religion-based terrorism is a tactic, used by the KKK, and modern white supremacists in the USA, the Stern Gang in Palestine (and their successors since), and in the islamist version widely throughout by CIA-sponsored groups trying to combat the USSR and Russia. I used to live in Hereford and drink with a lot of men ‘who definitely weren’t in the Regiment’. Many of them would find it child’s play to sponsor a suicide terrorism attack in the West. They routinely do far worse in our defence!

          • JabbaPapa

            Your claims do not seem to be cogent with present reality : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/iraq-corps.htm

            And if you’re talking about the 1990s, that’s 20 years ago, a virtual lifetime in a typical military career in a war zone.

            Perhaps a quote from my link will help : “It is estimated that about 400,000 people, mostly military personnel, lost their jobs when Saddam’s military apparatus was disolved in May 2003. Not much was left of the Iraqi military — about 18 tanks and a few artillery pieces.

            Sorry, but your story just doesn’t add up.

            (crikey, and don’t even get me **started** on your weird dualist political ideology)

          • Guy

            You seem divorced from reality entirely. I hope you find a congenial home.

          • Rufus Chucklebutty

            Cheers Walter. Get back to your air soft group now.

        • Nick Fisher

          Hmm,

          So @Guy, you believe that ISIS was created by the CIA and you know this because you drink with the SAS…

          I find the witness thoroughly credible M’lud 🙂

    • Derek Lambada

      Perhaps you can also explain Boko Haram, Al Shabab and all the (hundreds) of other Islamist terrorist groups.
      The ‘bullies’ are the Islamists, they have been for 1400 years and they are in every Muslim country today.
      I wouldn’t call Corbyn hard left either. But Labour should be for the working people of this country (much of what he says is directly harmful to that group). Not this idiocy of failed international socialism and divisive identity politics.
      He needs to concentrate on economic policies in this country and forget about international issues. Everything he says in this area makes him look like a dangerous fool.

      • WTF

        Yep, saying Corbyn is hard left whilst Labour isn’t is like saying there are moderate Muslims when they all subscribe to one faith.

    • Tom Cullem

      And NYC/9/11 was . . . .?

    • Dominic Stockford

      “ISIS itself is clearly a coalition between US and UK trained mercenaries”

      You what! Come off it, even you can’t really believe that load of old tosh.

      • Guy

        Do the research, it is not my life’s mission to educate those who don’t want to know.

        • mightymark

          For which read “I’ve been rumbled and had better beat a hasty retreat in as good order as possible”.

          • Guy

            Boring.

  • Miss Floribunda Rose

    Corbyn, like many clapped-out old fanatics, now looks like a fussy and peevish old maid. He should take up newt-breeding, like his reptilian mate Ken.

    • freddiethegreat

      Newt breeding? Don’t you mean Gussie Fink-Nottle?

  • King Kibbutz

    “…where their strong points are…”
    Well, so far, London, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Bradford, Oldham, Luton… there are so many more. And work is under way to extend.

    • Tom Cullem

      You forgot Leeds and Doncaster.

      • Dominic Stockford

        Reading, Rochdale, Rotherham, and on and on and on… Glasgow too I believe.

        • Caractacus

          It’s becoming quicker to name the places which aren’t infested with Islamic Rapists.

  • rose white

    understanding their strongpoints only take sufficient brains to understand that their strong point is a vast army of third columnists successfully implanted into ever western country.

  • Adam Bromley

    Comparing Islamic radicals to fascists, in particular Nazis, doesn’t seem to me helpful. They might share a virulent anti-Semitism and a willingness to use extreme violence to achieve their ends, but that’s where the similarities end. Corbyn has a pattern of seeing the enemies of the British establishment in a favourable light, whether it’s the IRA, Putin or ISIS. I think you could say it’s naive at best, foolish and dangerous at worst. However making glib comparisons of ISIS with the Nazis avoids the uncomfortable realities of the Middle East. When Germany was occupied in 1945, Nazism died with it. Fascist movements did not survive without state apparatus. Communism is surely the more relevant comparison, an ideology that proved highly resilient and triggered revolutions in a number of countries and still holds sway in a handful today. The Cold War perhaps provides better insights on how to challenge Islamic radicalism. We can invade ISIS, remove them from power, only to find Libya falls to ISIS style radicals or perhaps even Saudi Arabia. With the collapse in the oil prices, even the Saudis will run out of money and then what do they have to offer their people. Corbyn is mostly wrong, but he is correct in saying that you cannot win this war by force alone. It is a war of ideas and visions of the future. Harking back to 1940 helps no one.

    • WTF

      At least the IRA and Putin could be negotiated with to some degree but ISIS is as barking as Corbyn.

    • johnb1945

      I think Islamism is way more like Nazism than communism..
      Expansionism, militarism and targeted persecution were de facto aspects of communism, but they were not de jure aspects of its ideology.

      Nazism and Islamism, on the other hand, both have supremacism and, consequently, all of the aforementioned, perfusing their foundational ideals.

  • Albert Zbingswiki

    They’ve already won. Dave has given them carte blanche to destroy this nation and kill us all.
    No act of appeasement is considered too much trouble, and London is always ready to scream “Islamophobe!”
    The cancer-like Moslem ghettoes grow and spread, and the left pretends everything is hunky dory.
    We are doomed.

    • Space 1999

      I don’t think we are, because I think the pushback is beginning to happen. Cologne changed it all…

      • Tom Cullem

        From your lips to God’s ears as my late Mum used to say.

      • Tom Cullem

        It should be about more than Cologne: a movement has to begin that stops the wholesale negative messaging about nationalism, which brought wonderful literature, music, art, poetry and cultural narratives to the world. The idea that non-nationalism solves all problems and involves no losses is the one that has to be fought – what would 19th century classical music have been without the revolt of the Central and Eastern European composers like Dvorak and Chopin and the Russians against the reign of German “pure” music (i.e., non “programmatic” music)? There has to be some start the beauties of language and culture that nationalism has conferred but all they ever talk about is WWI and WWII – as if, you know, it had never had anything to do with power and money and geopolitical spheres of influence – just “national culture”!!

        • johnb1945

          Are you mistaking “nationalism” for “patriotism”?

          Nationalism usually has supremacist overtones, usually derogatory of others outwith the nationality in question.

          Patriotism – love of ones own country but appreciating of others also.

      • Albert Zbingswiki

        I hope you’re right. Sadly the response appears to be “well, we’ll have to be more modest then. Burkhas are quite nicely, actually…”

  • Alb Einstein

    Cameron and his team of labour light are also blind to it. Only a matter of time now before this situation completely explodes IMHO.

  • Tom Cullem

    Blind to Islamofascism is only the half of it: after a report comes out on why Labour lost the election, one of whose signature findings is the working-class’s rising anger about immigration, and particularly the kind of immigration that caused the Cologne/Stuttgart/Hamburg/Malmo/Helsinki/Zurich situations, Corbyn goes out and announces that said working-class should welcome an indefinite number of the same crowd – while social media lights up with images of hundreds of viciously aggressive young men storming a ferry because they believe that despite having landed in France, they have some God-given right to a place in England.

    One assumes that Corbyn thinks he’s making the government look bad. In fact, he’s announcing to working-class voters that they were right to defect either to UKIP or the Tories: Labour are a bunch of leftover 1960s hippies who don’t give a damn what happens to those voters. And as Labour are warned about the loss of perhaps 200 council seats in the upcoming elections in May.

    You couldn’t make it up.

  • Peter Simple

    The Left are pro-Islam because Islam, like the Left, is anti-capitalist, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-democracy, anti-freedom and anti-anything else that is a force for good in the world. They don’t realise, bless them, that it is also anti-THEM, but they will find this out, in due course, if they get their way.

    • Dominic Stockford

      It’s a case of ‘They hate the people I hate’, so they ‘must’ be good too. Although they won’t admit that they hate Jews either.

      • WTF

        Good point, that old enemy of my enemy ploy.

    • Hippograd

      The Left are pro-Islam because Islam, like the Left, is anti-capitalist, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish,

      Ah — that explains why the Board of Deputies are so firmly opposed to mass immigration by Muslims. Thanks. I’d been wondering about that.

      “You must not oppress foreigners. You know what it’s like to be a foreigner, for you yourselves were once foreigners in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 23:9)”

      The Board of Deputies expresses its horror and pain at the death of Aylan Kurdi, the three year old Syrian Kurdish boy who drowned alongside his brother Galip and their mother, Rehan off the coast of Turkey. The family are from Kobani, which has been subjected to some of the fiercest fighting between ISIS and Kurdish groups. We hope that the shocking photo which has made its way around the world will spur world leaders into action.

      Senior Vice President Richard Verber said: “As war rages with unthinkable barbarity in the Middle East, we must be diligent in avoiding using dehumanising language when discussing this issue, particularly given the history of Jews in the UK – most of whom are descended from refugees. We must act with compassion and care towards our fellow human beings.”

      http://www.bod.org.uk/board-statement-on-the-refugee-crisis/

      anti-democracy, anti-freedom and anti-anything else that is a force for good in the world.

      So the left and Islam must also be anti-the-Board-of-Deputies.

      • johnb1945

        Ah, a bit of Jew blaming.

        I have a feeling that your own relationship to Nazism may be more straightforward than that of either the hard left or Islamists?

        • Hippograd

          Mea maxima culpa. I’ve suggested that the Judeo-Jewish community have some power and influence over what happens in the UK. That’s Judeo-Jew blaming and obviously wrong. What evidence is there that Lord Feldman has any power in the Tory party or Lord Levy had any in New Labour?

          To help me climb out of my swamp of ignorance and stupidity, can you point me towards some statements by the Board of Deputies warning against the consequences of mass immigration by Muslims and demanding the repeal of the hate-speech laws? Because free speech is a core Judeo-Christian value and BoD surely support it to the hilt.

          • johnb1945

            Free speech is not absolute. Public spaces have rules. Can you walk around screaming profanities? Try it if you want. We have to co-exist in the public space and in reality that means it is governed by concepts such as offence, decency and individual responsibility to others.

            This is how it should be, otherwise civic order breaks down.

            What particular things do you wish to do in the public space which are currently prevented?

            And when you speak about Jews who have reached the upper echelons of the establishment (and who hold, in the example given, largely opposing political views) are you suggesting this should be prevented? That Jews should, unlike the rest of us, not be allowed to progress on the basis of their talent and work ethic?

            And you moan about curtailment of free speech…….

          • hepworth

            ” who hold, in the example given, largely opposing political views”
            It ensures they’re always on the winning side.

          • Hippograd

            Free speech is not absolute. Public spaces have rules. Can you walk around screaming profanities? Try it if you want. We have to co-exist in the public space and in reality that means it is governed by concepts such as offence, decency and individual responsibility to others.

            I see. If anyone is “offended”, the offensive person must shut up.

            This is how it should be, otherwise civic order breaks down.

            That’s not what the First Amendment says. But civic order certainly breaks down when you import millions of 3rd-worlders.

            What particular things do you wish to do in the public space which are currently prevented?

            I want there to be open discussion of racial differences without penalties for people who express heterodox opinions. For example, I do not want blacks to shriek down people who say that blacks are responsible for their own problems, not white racists.

            And when you speak about Jews who have reached the upper echelons of the establishment (and who hold, in the example given, largely opposing political views) are you suggesting this should be prevented?

            Israel prevents non-Jews from getting to the top in Israel. Quite right too. Malaysia prevents Chinese from dominating Malaysian politics and academia. Again, Malaysia is right to do so: it is not a Chinese-majority country.

            That Jews should, unlike the rest of us, not be allowed to progress on the basis of their talent and work ethic?

            But they don’t “progress” on the basis of their talent and work ethic: they are over-represented among the elite:

            This overrepresentation of Jews is really quite extraordinary, since the group currently constitutes just 2.1 percent of the general population and about 1.8 percent of college-age Americans.[52] Thus, although Asian-American high school graduates each year outnumber their Jewish classmates nearly three-to-one, American Jews are far more numerous at Harvard and throughout the Ivy League. Both groups are highly urbanized, generally affluent, and geographically concentrated within a few states, so the “diversity” factors considered above would hardly seem to apply; yet Jews seem to fare much better at the admissions office.

            http://www.unz.com/article/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

            And you moan about curtailment of free speech…….

            Ever heard of a thing called ethnic nepotism?

          • johnb1945

            Israel does not prevent non-Jews rising to the top. A Muslim could be prime minister of Israel. It’s not likely right now, but it could happen.

            Also ethnic nepotism and Jews.

            1st ethnic nepotism to some degree is incredibly common among all peoples and cultures everywhere.

            2nd there is scientific evidence that Ashkenazi Jews have intellectual talents especially in maths and logic, but not so much spatial intelligence. Think of all those physical scientists like Einstein and Feynman who were Jewish. Conversely,hardly any famed engineers have been Jewish.

            25% of nobel prizes have been won by Ashkenazi Jews. There is simply no way ethnic nepotism explains that.

            And you cite the Ivy league, but something similar happens here. Figures for it exist somewhere, but Ashkenazi Jews are more likely than the rest to go into higher education, and more likely to go to Oxbridge or Russell group universities.

            I don’t think that is to do with nepotism.

            Conclusion?

            Maybe Ashkenazi Jews especially just have a few intellectual talents which are God given.

            You seem jealous. Why be jealous? Why not celebrate this? Jewish inventions have benefited us all. Facebook? Theory of relativity? I mean, you could list them…….

          • Hippograd

            Israel does not prevent non-Jews rising to the top.

            What’s the percentage of Muslims in the population? What’s the percentage of Muslims in the Israeli cabinet? What percentage of Muslims have been Israeli presidents, prime ministers, ministers in general judges, controllers of TV stations and radio?

            A Muslim could be prime minister of Israel. It’s not likely right now, but it could happen.

            Produce some evidence for that. Name a Muslim who is likely to become PM of Israel and explain why he or she is likely to do so.

            Also ethnic nepotism and Jews.

            1st ethnic nepotism to some degree is incredibly common among all peoples and cultures everywhere.

            Of course. But it is demonized among whites by the same Jews who practise it assiduously themselves. White men are actually under-represented at the top according to their share of the population.

            Maybe Ashkenazi Jews especially just have a few intellectual talents which are God given.

            You obviously know nothing about statistics. Certainly Ashkenazim Jews have a higher average IQ than whites, but they are over-represented in the elite according to their proportion of the most highly intelligent.

            You seem jealous. Why be jealous?

            I’m not jealous of a group that is so vulgar and materialistic. Muslims have given the world far more beautiful art than Jews ever have.

            Why not celebrate this?

            Why should I celebrate the dominance of a group that is hostile to my group and my religion?

            Jewish inventions have benefited us all. Facebook? Theory of relativity? I mean, you could list them…….

            Yes. Marxism. Freudianism. Communism. Multiculturalism. Laws against “hate” speech. Modern art. Modern architecture. What contributions to the world those are.

          • johnb1945

            The percentage of Arabs in the Knesset is about 13% representing a 20% population. Most of these MKs are Muslims, although a couple are Christians.

            The percentage of British Muslim MPs is about 2% representing about 5% of the population.

            It s well known that Muslims living in secular democracies are typically under-represented in legislature, judiciary, universities etc.

            And yes, if you compare Ivy League to other elite US universities such as Stanford, UChicago or MIT, the proportion of Jewish entrants is much higher. Do you propose dealing with this through hostile anti-semitism, or through examining and adjusting initiatives such as affirmative action? I’d also point out that the Ivy League is in the North East and most of its entrants are North Easterners, where the Jewish proportion of the population is highest, sometimes exceeding 10%.

            Your religion tells people you should convince people of its goodness by example and persuasion. Being hostile to all Jews? Insisting they are all in conspiracy? I question how those two things accord.

          • Hippograd

            The percentage of Arabs in the Knesset is about 13% representing a 20% population. Most of these MKs are Muslims, although a couple are Christians.

            Right, so that’s evidence against the idea that there will ever be an Arab PM. They’re under-represented by share of the population and even more under-represented as far as power and influence go.

            It s well known that Muslims living in secular democracies are typically under-represented in legislature, judiciary, universities etc.

            Yes, because they have low average IQs and separate themselves from the majority culture. But who ever wanted them in the west? When was it voted for by the majority? It never was and one small group in particular is responsible for their presence.

            Do you propose dealing with this through hostile anti-semitism, or through examining and adjusting initiatives such as affirmative action?

            No, I propose dealing with by bringing their over-representation into the open and stopping their ethnic nepotism.

            Your religion says you should convince people of its goodness by example and persuasion. Being hostile to all Jews? Insisting they are all in conspiracy? I question how those two things accord.

            It’s my religion in an ancestral sense and I am not hostile to all members of any group. I am hostile to the effects of certain groups. I also object to mass immigration by Christian Arabs and blacks, though far less than I do to mass immigration by Muslims of any race.

          • johnb1945

            “Ever” is a long time.

            Right now a Muslim PM of Israel is unlikely because Israel is engaged in a de facto war with the entire Muslim world. The majority Jewish Israeli electorate are inevitably going to view a Muslim candidate with suspicion.

            My point is that no Israeli law prohibits this. It is not an apartheid, ethnocracy. There could be, at some point in the future, a Muslim Israeli PM.

          • johnb1945

            “Muslims have low IQs”.

            More racism! Show me evidence that the world’s 1.5b Muslims have lower IQs than everyone else.

          • Hippograd

            Right now a Muslim PM of Israel is unlikely because Israel is engaged in a de facto war with the entire Muslim world. The majority Jewish Israeli electorate are inevitably going to view a Muslim candidate with suspicion.

            And there is no prospect of that changing in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, the socially conservative Tories in the UK wet themselves over the prospect of Sajid Javid becoming PM.

            My point is that no Israeli law prohibits this. It is not an apartheid, ethnocracy. There could be, at some point in the future, a Muslim Israeli PM.

            Your point is fatuous. Israeli laws and immigration policy are specifically designed to prevent any group but Jews ascending to positions of power. So are Chinese laws and immigration policy. Quite right too.

            “Muslims have low IQs”.

            More racism! Show me evidence that the world’s 1.5b Muslims have lower IQs than everyone else.

            Are you being serious? If you take the concept of “racism” seriously, you’re a cultural Marxist, not any kind of genuine conservative. And when you’re quoting me, can you please use my words rather than yours? I said: low average IQs, because obviously some Muslims have very high IQs, e.g. the Pakistani Nobel prize-winner Abdus Salam (who is ignored by his own nation). There is abundant evidence for low average Muslim IQ:

            http://www.photius.com/rankings/national_iq_scores_country_ranks.html

            See also:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

          • johnb1945

            Harbouring broad hostile opinions of other nations and races which are not founded in any evidence is racist and/ or xenophobic.

            You said that Muslims living in secular democracies were a low IQ group. Show me a evidence of this, not the average IQ of Muslims in the Yemen or Pakistan.

            IQ is (partially) a product of environment and the IQ of white Europeans has been on a measurable upward trajectory since the 30s. Read about the Flynn effect.

            The IQ difference between Muslims in developing countries and here could be as great or greater than the difference between our 30s IQ scores and those of today.

            And show me evidence of this Jewish conspiracy to wipe us out. Evidence is not the theories of Kevin B MacDonald.

            You have a black and white perspective that a majority of diaspora Jews are engaged in a long term conspiratorial campaign to wipe out their non-Jewish countrymen. You believe this is internally coherent, widely known about within the diaspora Jewish communities yet secret from the rest of us. Effectively, Jews are a secret society akin to the Masons, and not an ethnic sub-group with majority viewpoints informed by their historical and personal experience, like the rest of us.

            It characterises Jews as evil, subversive and untrustworthy, or, at least significantly more so than the rest of us.

            Because you believe Jews are a conspiracy with long term aims passed from generation to generation, you believe there is no point in having any discussion with them about the topics which clearly bother you – e.g. the professional importance of Jewish ethnic kinship, apparent universal support for mass migration and so on. There’s no point, because there would be no positive result. Jews are Jews doing what Jews were born to do and always will do. It is that simple.

            The solution, instead, is legislation targeted at the conspiracy. Laws which reduce Jewish influence, ethnic quotas and so on.

            I think some of your opinions border on the obsessive and the crazy.

          • Hippograd

            Harbouring broad hostile opinions of other nations and races which are not founded in any evidence is racist and/ or xenophobic.

            Yes, dear. Bleating half-witted Marxist slogans is not a good use of your time. I am “hostile” to Somali immigration (for example) because there is abundant proof that Somalis are much more criminal and corrupt on average than the white British.

            You said that Muslims living in secular democracies were a low IQ group. Show me a evidence of this, not the average IQ of Muslims in the Yemen or Pakistan.

            My mistake. You’re obviously living in a parallel reality where Pakistani immigrants to the west do not fail in education, consume welfare at much higher rates, or marry their cousins in a way that is guaranteed to cause genetic illnesses and lower IQ.

            IQ is (partially) a product of environment and the IQ of white Europeans has been on a measurable upward trajectory since the 30s. Read about the Flynn effect.

            The Flynn effect does not close the gap between races,

            The IQ difference between Muslims in developing countries and here could be as great or greater than the difference between our 30s IQ scores and those of today.

            Oh, it could be. And in your parallel reality, where Muslim immigrants don’t fail in education and win dozens of Nobel prizes, there’s obviously a lot of evidence that this is the case.

            And show me evidence of this Jewish conspiracy to wipe us out. Evidence is not the theories of Kevin B MacDonald.

            Again, dear, please do not put words in my mouth. I do not believe in a conspiracy, I believe that Jews act in ways that they think best for Jews. Because they have a higher-than-average IQ and verbal ability, they are well able to influence politics and culture in their preferred directions. How crazy and obsessive of me to think that Lord Levy had any influence on New Labour, just because he supplied the money, or that Lord Feldman has any influence over the Tories, just because he’s the chairman of the party and, like Levy, responsible for funding it.

            The solution, instead, is legislation targeted at the conspiracy. Laws which reduce Jewish influence, ethnic quotas and so on.

            No, the solution is legislation applying Israel’s rules to the west. And Israel’s rules are to ensure that one ethnic group remains in control.

            I think some of your opinions border on the obsessive and the crazy.

            Oh dear. But remember that I don’t have the advantage of living in your parallel reality, where there is no evidence to suggest that Muslims fail or that Jews support mass immigration from the third world.

          • johnb1945

            As history’s foremost victims of racism it’s hardly surprising that Jews are inclined towards politics which espouse tolerance of different races. FYI Israeli Jews were notably left wing and multicultural to begin with. The harsh, modern Israeli Jewish nationalism is a product of 7 decades of constant war and threat. Your Jew quotas are unmeritocratic. If Jews benefit from slightly higher average intelligence and a culture which values education then in a meritocratic system they will be over represented in jobs requiring intelligence and education. Judges. Doctors. High ranking politicians etc. That’s just a fact of life and any attempt to engineer it otherwise will amount to discrimination.

            I have Jewish friends and I see the effect this constant low level, snide antisemitism has on them. It’s not very funny.

          • Hippograd

            As history’s foremost victims of racism it’s hardly surprising that Jews are inclined towards politics which espouse tolerance of different races.

            Except in Israel. And by “tolerance”, you mean “turning a blind eye to non-white crime whilst pretending whites are a huge threat to non-whites”.

            FYI Israeli Jews were notably left wing and multicultural to begin with. The harsh, modern Israeli Jewish nationalism is a product of 7 decades of constant war and threat.

            Hmmm. I must have missed all that mass immigration by blacks and Muslims into Israel that went on in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s.

            Your Jew quotas are unmeritocratic. If Jews benefit from slightly higher average intelligence and a culture which values education then in a meritocratic system they will be over represented in jobs requiring intelligence and education.

            Yes. But they are over-represented by more than they deserve, because they practise ethnic nepotism while demonizing whites for the same. There are plenty of stupid Jews who take jobs more intelligent whites are denied. The neo-cons are a good example: they’re the geniuses behind the Iraq war.

            Judges. Doctors. High ranking politicians etc.

            Don’t forget fraudsters. It’s astonishing that so many figures like Bernie Madoff come from such a small group.

            That’s just a fact of life and any attempt to engineer it otherwise will amount to discrimination.

            It’s not a fact of life in Israel.

            I have Jewish friends and I see the effect this constant low level, snide antisemitism has on them. It’s not very funny.

            What about the constant high-level hatred directed at whites by the media and government? What about the lies about whites being responsible for black failure, which incites blacks to the murder and rape of whites? Are your Jewish friends upset by that too?

          • johnb1945

            When you bang on about Jews in diaspora being hypocritical you fail to account for the fact that Israel is a majority Sephardic/ Mizrahi country.

            The multicultural diaspora Jews you dislike so much are overwhelmingly Ashkenazim.

            In Israel, the minority Ashkenazim remain more liberal and multicultural than the Sephardim who are predominantly right wing, monocultural, less outward looking Likudniks.

            It isn’t so much hypocrisy as a representation of two distinct Jewish ethnicities with distinct political leanings.

          • Hippograd

            Ah, again my ignorance was showing.

            In Israel, the minority Ashkenazim remain more liberal and multicultural

            Like Benyamin Netanyanu and Ariel Sharon, you mean? Then how lucky for Israel that those two didn’t get their hands on any power! The borders would have been opened in a twinkling to the huddled masses of the Middle East, yearning to breathe free.

            the Sephardim who are predominantly right wing, monocultural, less outward looking Likudniks.

            Right. Then all these folk must be Sephardim:

            Chaim Weizmann – first President of Israel (1949–52)
            Yitzhak Ben-Zvi – first elected/second president President of Israel (1952–63)
            David Ben-Gurion – first Prime Minister of Israel (1948–54, 1955–63)
            Moshe Sharett – prime minister (1954–55)
            Levi Eshkol – prime minister (1963–69)
            Golda Meir – prime minister (1969–74)
            Yitzhak Rabin – prime minister (1974–77, 1992–95); Nobel Peace Prize (1994) (assassinated November 1995)
            Menachem Begin – prime minister (1977–83); Nobel Peace Prize (1978)
            Yitzhak Shamir – prime minister (1983–84, 1986–92)
            Shimon Peres – President of Israel (2007–); prime minister (1984–86, 1995–96); Nobel Peace Prize (1994)
            Benjamin Netanyahu – prime minister (1996–99), (2009–); was minister of finance; Likud party chairman
            Ehud Barak – prime minister (1999–01)
            Ariel Sharon – prime minister (2001–06)
            Ehud Olmert – prime minister (2006–09); former mayor of Jerusalem

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_Ashkenazi_Jews

          • johnb1945

            Political leadership on both the left and right in Israel is dominated by Ashkenazim. As are high income jobs and the professions etc.

            Maybe because they are more intelligent? It’s a controversial topic in Israel, as it is here for people like you.

            If you look at how people vote then broadly Ashkenazim are significantly left wing compared to Sephardim, and Sephardim are a 60% majority.

          • Hippograd

            This is the situation:

            1. Israel has a Sephardic majority who oppose immigration, but Israeli politics are dominated by Ashkenazim. Israel has uncompromisingly right-wing laws on migration and citizenship.

            2. Europe and the US have a goyish majority who oppose immigration, but European and US politics are dominated by Ashkenazim. Europe and the US have highly liberal laws on migration and citizenship.

            “What’s best for us?” is the governing principle. Or rather: “What do we think is best for us?”

            Political leadership on both the left and right in Israel is dominated by Ashkenazim.

            I know it is. There have been left-wing Ashkenazi PMs in Israel, but Israel has never allowed mass immigration by goyim. Ashkenazim also dominate politics in the Europe and the US, e.g. most funding for the Republicans and Democrats comes from them. The head of the US Federal Bank has been Ashkenazi since the 1980s. Hollywood is run by Ashkenazi and is hostile to Christianity, even though Christians are much more numerous in the US than Ashkenazim. Etc.

            Maybe because they are more intelligent? It’s a controversial topic in Israel, as it is here for people like you.

            There’s no “maybe” about it. The Ashkenazim have a distinct genetic advantage:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16867211

            But it’s not just higher intelligence: they also practise ethnic nepotism and they are good at Machiavellianism. The neo-cons haven’t had so much influence because of their superior intellects or understanding of the world.

            If you look at how people vote then broadly Ashkenazim are significantly left wing compared to Sephardim, and Sephardim are a 60% majority.

            Those left-wing Ashkenazim have never wanted mass immigration by goyim.

          • johnb1945

            They probably get there ‘cos they’re talented.

            My own MP is a high flying half Jew tipped for the top. You can look at his voting and motions he’s tabled and it’s clear that he’s not pro-immigration.

            Back in the days of Blair and Brown people said the same thing about Scots ruling England.

            Of course, it was often “Jews and Scots ruling England” because Jack Straw had a fairly tenuous Jewish connection + a few others in the inner circle.

            Kind of ridiculous.

          • Hippograd

            They probably get there ‘cos they’re talented.

            Like Bernie Madoff. Talent is the only explanation of why people get power. And if you’re talented, you’re entitled to behave as you please.

            My own MP is a high flying half Jew tipped for the top. You can look at his voting and motions he’s tabled and it’s clear that he’s not pro-immigration.

            People often have difficulty understanding why what is true on average is not always true in particular. I’ve already quoted a Jewish American to you:

            Given the wildly overwrought suspicions that some Jews harbor about the American Christian majority who are in fact the Jews’ best friends in the world, it is not surprising that these Jews look at mass Third-World and Moslem immigration, not as a danger to themselves, but as the ultimate guarantor of their own safety, hoping that in a racially diversified, de-Christianized America, the waning majority culture will lack the power, even if it still has the desire, to persecute Jews.

            http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=12534

            Of course, it was often “Jews and Scots ruling England” because Jack Straw had a fairly tenuous Jewish connection + a few others in the inner circle.

            Like Lord Levy and his cabal of millionaires.

            Kind of ridiculous.

            Yes, it’s ridiculous to think that funding a political party would give you any influence over its policies, isn’t it? And just because Lord Feldman and (until recently) Grant Shapps are the Tory chairmen we shouldn’t expect them to do anything but work for the good of everyone. Just like Israel:

            But Israel – which has approved fewer than 1% of asylum applications since it signed the UN Refugee Convention six decades ago – has not offered asylum to a single person from Sudan. It turned down Adam’s application, and last October, when he went to renew the temporary permit allowing him to stay in the country, he was summoned to a detention centre known as Holot, deep in the Negev desert.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35475403

            But we gotta remember that Israel is a small country, unlike massive countries like Ireland and Sweden:

            Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role, and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.

            — Barbara Lerner Spectre, IBA-News, 2010.[3]

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Lerner_Spectre

          • johnb1945

            Have a read of this:
            http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/133505/huge-majority-british-jews-will-vote-tory-jc-poll-reveals

            Shows you that Jewish liberalism is not straightforward.

            Although I suspect you think the Tories are liberal wets.

          • Hippograd

            Thanks for the link.

            Although I suspect you think the Tories are liberal wets.

            Well, they are the party of gay marriage and of demands that Britain feel “shame” for the under-representation of blacks at Oxbridge. They are also the party had two Jewish chairmen in the recent past (Lord Feldman and Grant Shapps) and that is much more concerned about Israel’s future than about Britain’s. Feldman called ordinary Tories “swivel-eyed loons” for opposing gay marriage and wanting out of the EU. Like the Republicans in the US, the top of the Tory party does not reflect the views of the grassroots.

            Around 73 per cent of Jews said the political parties’ attitudes to Israel were “very” or “quite” important in influencing how they would vote.

            In other words, they’re voting for the party that they think best serves their interests.

      • johnb1945

        Where does this statement by the BoD endorse mass migration, then?

        Loving strangers is a shared Judeo-Christian ideal. Christian leaders say/ would say similar things.

        • Hippograd

          Where does this statement by the BoD endorse mass migration, then?

          My mistake. I overlooked the bit where it said Britain should copy Israel and admit no “refugees” at all. I also overlooked where BoD demanded the repeal of the hate-speech laws.

          Loving strangers is a shared Judeo-Christian ideal. Christian leaders say/ would say similar things.

          Ah, I see. “Loving the stranger” must be why the Judeo-Jewish nation of Israel welcomes so many non-Judeo-Jews onto its territory and imprisons any Judeo-Jew who objects for “hate”.

          Christian leaders say/ would say similar things.

          Modern “Christian” leaders are traitors and also, by the standards of Christian tradition, heretics. That’s why the pope sides with Muslim “refugees” rather than with the Christians those Muslims are harming.

          • johnb1945

            Omission and proclamation are not the same thing.

            Do you disagree that we should help refugees? In that case you are in a minority. The majority wish to help refugees. The majority is majority non-Jewish. The debate relates to what “help” should be. The German approach? Or something else, more akin to our current approach?

            In regard to Israel, it is currently already > 20% Muslim. We are about 5%. It is also tiny. The refugees you propose it should admit come from hostile countries, some of which are officially at war with Israel. A significant number of these refugees are hostile to Jews (50% according to an article published today), with even more hostile to Israel. I am confident that there will come a time when Israel accepts asylum seekers of non-Jewish heritage as other secular democracies do, and in a number proportional to their size (small landmass and 7 million population). For various reasons expecting them to do it right now with this particular mass movement of majority Arab refugees is completely unrealistic.

            Calling modern Christian leaders traitors does sound a bit… well… how can I say this? Hitlerish? Hitler decided Christianity was nothing more than vestigial Judaism and needed to be redefined as something else (Aryan and Pagan). You may not be proposing Aryan Paganism, but it seems you think Christian leaders should not espouse the Jewish ideals of their faith.

          • Hippograd

            Omission and proclamation are not the same thing.

            BoD aren’t “omitting” their support for mass immigration: they are proclaiming it.

            Do you disagree that we should help refugees? In that case you are in a minority.

            What does “help” mean? In what way are Moroccans, Pakistanis or Nigerians “refugees”? I want the UK to do what Israel, Hungary and Poland do: admit no refugees. But of course, Israel, Hungary and Poland are Hindu countries and can’t be expected to follow Judeo-Christian values.

            In regard to Israel, it is currently already > 20% Muslim. We are about 5%.

            And look at the problems they’re already causing. Again, if only we’d listened to BoD when it warned that their numbers would inexorably grow.

            It is also tiny.

            So is Ireland. That must be why Alan Shatter, the Judeo-Jewish minister responsible for immigration policy, kept Ireland’s borders closed to enrichment from Africa and the Muslim world.

            The refugees you propose it should admit come from hostile countries, some of which are officially at war with Israel. A significant number of these refugees are hostile to Jews (50% according to an article published today), with even more hostile to Israel.

            I don’t need to be told why Israel doesn’t admit them: I already know. I also know that the same arguments apply to the UK. Muslims are hostile to all western nations and all western values. They are bad for the west. But BoD and other Judeo-Jewish groups support Israel’s refusal to admit them while demonizing any attempt by the rest of the west to do the same.

            Calling modern Christian leaders traitors does sound a bit… well… how can I say this? Hitlerish?

            No, it sounds a bit traditionalist. Do you think any pope before the 20th century would have welcomed mass immigration by Muslims into Europe?

            Hitler decided Christianity was nothing more than vestigial Judaism and needed to be redefined as something else (Aryan and Pagan). You may not be proposing Aryan Paganism, but it seems you think Christian leaders should not espouse the Jewish ideals of their faith.

            Those Jewish ideals are applied in Israel, which is why rabbis — except the most extreme liberal ones — don’t support mass immigration into Israel.

          • johnb1945

            Where does the BoD espouse mass, German or Swedish style immigration?

            Please show me a link, a press release or white paper or similar.

            You concede in your post that “Charity” has no absolute definition. You yourself support charity for refugees, so long as it does not involve any immigration at all.

            I think you have an unusual, minority opinion. Most people, Jew and non-Jew, agree with limited immigration of the most vulnerable refugees.

            Please show me where the BoD directly propose anything other than this???

          • Hippograd

            You concede in your post that “Charity” has no absolute definition.

            I didn’t “concede” it — I pointed out that you were using it as though “help” meant “allowing immigration.”

            You yourself support charity for refugees, so long as it does not involve any immigration at all.

            Yes, just like Israel, Hungary and Poland. And Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE.

            I think you have an unusual, minority opinion. Most people, Jew and non-Jew, agree with limited immigration of the most vulnerable refugees.

            I think you haven’t done any research:

            British people were first quizzed on how they felt about allowing migrants to settle in the country in September, following news of the death of Aylan Kurdi, a three-year-old boy who drowned and was found face-down on a beach in Turkey. Just 27 per cent of people at the time believed Britain should be accepting ‘fewer or no refugees’, according to the YouGov survey.

            But a more recent poll conducted by The Times suggests that figure has risen by 22 points – and now 49 per cent hold those views. The previous poll also showed 36 per cent of people thought Britain should accept more refugees.

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/refugee-crisis-poll-shows-support-has-slumped-for-syrians-in-britain-in-wake-of-paris-attacks-a6739281.html

            If most people, Jew and non-Jew, agree with limited immigration for the “most vulnerable”, I assume Israel, Hungary, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE are inhabited by Martians.

            Where does the BoD espouse mass, German or Swedish style immigration?

            Here you go:

            This website is designed to be a one-stop shop for those who want to get involved in supporting refugees and asylum seekers both in the UK and abroad. Support Refugees was set up and is managed by The Jewish Council for Racial Equality (JCORE) and West London Synagogue of British Jews.

            Special thanks to JLGB, who helped get the website off the ground and to the Jewish Social Action Forum, where the idea for such a website first arose.

            It is supported across the community by all of the following organisations:

            AJR
            Alyth Gardens Synagogue
            Board of Deputies

            http://www.supportrefugees.org.uk/about/

            But of course Israel doesn’t have to accept any refugees because that would be dangerous to Israeli citizens. Refugees to Germany present no danger whatsoever.

            Now it’s your turn: produce any warnings about the dangers of Muslim immigration by a mainstream Judeo-Jewish organization anywhere in the west.

            And here’s the chief rabbi:

            Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis has warned that closing borders to refugees in response to the attacks in Paris “would not make sense”. He said it was vital to avoid a backlash against refugees after Greek officials claimed that one of the terrorists behind the Paris attacks was registered as one. Last week Rabbi Mirvis led a delegation to one of Greece’s largest refugee camps to see the aid effort being carried out by World Jewish Relief.

            http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/149328/do-not-close-doors-refugees-wake-paris-attacks-says-chief-rabbi

            It “wouldn’t make sense” except for Israel.

            Here’s something about the US about “immigration reform”, i.e. open borders:

            Jews Unite Behind Push for Immigration Reform

            Rex WeinerJune 26, 2013

            Rabbi Mark Diamond stood on the border with Mexico on a brisk February day, alongside the Rev. Alexei Smith of the Catholic Archdiocese, the Rev. Mary Glasspool of the Episcopal Diocese and a host of clergy from Presbyterian, Methodist and United Church of Christ ministries. All of them peered through the corrugated steel wall at the rough miles between countries. The scene evoked thoughts of the old adage Mexicans invoke about their country: “So far from God, so close to the United States!”

            Diamond, the American Jewish Committee’s Los Angeles director, who arranged the clerics’ 25-member fact-finding mission, is hoping to bridge a comparable distance — between a life of promise and a life of uncertainty — for millions of noncitizens in the United States.

            http://forward.com/news/179296/jews-unite-behind-push-for-immigration-reform/

          • johnb1945

            Damn those Christian clergy, even they have been influenced by the perfidious Jew! And I’m not talking about Jesus…..

            What you’re saying is just completely dissonant.

            That there is a widespread Jewish conspiracy to flood Europe with Jihadis, (whose first target will be the Jews themselves), yet at some (presumably pre-agreed) tipping point all (surviving) European Jews will up sticks to tiny, indefensible Israel where they can hunker down safe in the knowledge that the Islamists they conspired into Europe to kill Europeans now control all of Europe’s nuclear weapons.

            Doesn’t make sense.

          • Hippograd

            What you’re saying is just completely dissonant.

            Oh no. I’m being dissonant. I notice you didn’t respond to any of the evidence I produced. For example, you accused me of being in a “minority”:

            Just 27 per cent of people at the time believed Britain should be accepting ‘fewer or no refugees’, according to the YouGov survey. But a more recent poll conducted by The Times suggests that figure has risen by 22 points – and now 49 per cent hold those views.

            Do you accept that you were wrong? Do you accept that you are ignorant on the topics you are trying to lecture me about?

            That there is a widespread Jewish conspiracy to flood Europe with Jihadis, (whose first target will be the Jews themselves),

            Is this evidence of organized support for the mass movement of Muslims into Europe?

            This website is designed to be a one-stop shop for those who want to get involved in supporting refugees and asylum seekers both in the UK and abroad. Support Refugees was set up and is managed by The Jewish Council for Racial Equality (JCORE) and West London Synagogue of British Jews.

            Yes or no? And if the first target of Muslims is Jews, can you tell me how many Jews died in the Madrid bombings, the Paris massacres, at Charlie Hebdo, 7/7, etc? Or how many Jews were among the victims identified in Rotherham (and other towns)? Surely they must have entirely or mostly Jewish, if Jews are the first targets.

            yet at some (presumably pre-agreed) tipping point all (surviving) European Jews will up sticks to tiny, indefensible Israel where they can hunker down safe in the knowledge that the Islamists they conspired into Europe to kill Europeans now control all of Europe’s nuclear weapons.

            Is it honest to describe a nation with nuclear weapons as “indefensible”? And are more and more Jews making aliyah to Israel with the full encouragement of Benjamin Netanyahu?

            Doesn’t make sense.

            It makes perfect sense. This was written by a American Jew:

            Why Jews Welcome Muslims […]

            Just the other week I was telling a secular, leftist Jew of my acquaintance, a man in his late sixties, about my idea (which I’ve proposed at FrontPage Magazine) that the only way to make ourselves safe from the specter of domestic Moslem terrorism is to deport all jihad-supporting Moslems from this country. He replied with emotion that if America deported Moslem fundamentalists, it would immediately start doing the same thing to Jews as well. “It’s frightening, it’s scary,” he said heatedly, as if the Jews were already on the verge of being rounded up. In the eyes of this normally phlegmatic and easy-going man, America is just a shout away from the mass persecution, detention, and even physical expulsion of Jews. Given the wildly overwrought suspicions that some Jews harbor about the American Christian majority who are in fact the Jews’ best friends in the world, it is not surprising that these Jews look at mass Third-World and Moslem immigration, not as a danger to themselves, but as the ultimate guarantor of their own safety, hoping that in a racially diversified, de-Christianized America, the waning majority culture will lack the power, even if it still has the desire, to persecute Jews.

            http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=12534

          • johnb1945

            At least 1 Jew died in the Charlie Hebdo attack. The other crimes you mention were opportunistic, so if no Jews happened to be around, none would have been killed or raped. Rotherham is not known for its large Jewish community, for example.

            Regarding Charlie Hebdo, there was, of course, a contemporaneous attack on the Hypercache supermarket specifically targeting Jews.

            Going back further there was an attack on a Jewish museum in Brussels and a gun attack on a Jewish school in Marseille which killed a teacher and 3 children.

            There have been numerous targeted attacks on Jewish targets by Islamists. For example, during the Mumbai attacks, the attackers diverted specifically to murder the attendees of a Chabad house.

          • Hippograd

            You told me that Jews are the first targets.

            At least 1 Jew died in the Charlie Hebdo attack. The other crimes you mention were opportunistic, so if no Jews happened to be around, none would have been killed or raped. Rotherham is not known for its large Jewish community, for example.

            Oh, I see. Jews are the first targets except when they aren’t. ‘Coz the criminals are “opportunistic”.

            Regarding Charlie Hebdo, there was, of course, a contemporaneous attack on the Hypercache supermarket specifically targeting Jews.

            There was indeed.

            Going back further there was an attack on a Jewish museum in Brussels and a gun attack on a Jewish school in Marseille which killed a teacher and 3 children.

            Yup. Care to express those Jewish victims as a percentage of the total dead or raped? Remember that your claim was that Jews are the “first targets”. And remember too that European governments have been covering up Muslim and other third-world migrant crimes for decades.

            There have been numerous targeted attacks on Jewish targets by Islamists. For example, during the Mumbai attacks, the attackers diverted specifically to murder the attendees of a Chabad house.

            Yup again. Again, care to express the Jewish victims as a percentage of the total?

            You haven’t answered this question:

            Is this evidence of organized support for the mass movement of Muslims into Europe?

            This website is designed to be a one-stop shop for those who want to get involved in supporting refugees and asylum seekers both in the UK and abroad.

            Support Refugees was set up and is managed by The Jewish Council for Racial Equality (JCORE) and West London Synagogue of British Jews.

            Special thanks to JLGB, who helped get the website off the ground and to the Jewish Social Action Forum, where the idea for such a website first arose.

            It is supported across the community by all of the following organisations:

            AJR
            Alyth Gardens Synagogue
            Board of Deputies
            BODSA – Board of Deputies Social Action Group
            Finchley Progressive Synagogue
            JCORE – The Jewish Council for Racial Equality
            Jewish Social Action Forum
            JLC
            JW3
            The Liberal Jewish Synagogue
            Liberal Judaism
            Masorti Judaism
            New North London Synagogue
            Movement for Reform Judaism
            Northwood and Pinner Liberal Synagogue
            Office of the Chief Rabbi
            Pears Foundation
            Rabbinic Conference of Liberal Judaism
            Rabbinical Council of the United Synagogue
            Rene Cassin
            Tzelem
            United Synagogue
            West London Synagogue of British Jews
            World Jewish Relief

            We are a collaboration of all the community groups who wish to be involved. We hope it helps you find a meaningful way to support refugees. We would like to thank the Jewish Social Action Forum, The Jewish Council for Racial Equality (JCORE), Board of Deputies, JLGB, Masorti Judaism, and West London Synagogue who are all working behind the scenes to make this website project possible.

            http://www.supportrefugees.org.uk/about/

            Meanwhile, in Israel:

            Israel began construction of a fence along its border with Jordan on Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced at a weekly cabinet meeting. “Today, we are starting to build a fence on our eastern border,” he said Sunday. “In the first stage, we will build it from Timna to Eilat in order to protect the airport being built there, and we will continue the fence up to the Golan Heights, where we have already built a strong security fence. “To the extent that it is possible we will encompass Israel’s borders with a security fence and barriers that will allow us to control our borders,” Netanyahu said.

            “We will not allow Israel to be flooded with illegal migrants and terrorists.”

            http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/07/middleeast/israel-jordan-border-fence/

            Note that I fully support Israel’s right to defend its status as a Jewish nation by any means necessary.

          • johnb1945

            Jews aren’t that big a percentage of the population. Percentage killed means nothing, besides if we look at the Charlie Hebdo/ Hypercacher massacres 6/17 killed were Jews when Jews account for 1% of the French population. I don’t see how you can deny that Islamists have tried to specifically target Jews simply because they are Jews.

            And yes, Jewish people traditionally support liberal causes including racial equality, asylum seeker rights, multi-culturalism etc.

            You do not need to copy-paste endless websites. I do not disagree.

            The differences between us are that:

            1) You think they support this because of a conspiracy to cause a genocide, whereas;

            2) I think they support this because they themselves have been the targets of racists, mono-culturalist nationalists and are descended from refugees. They also have some reverence for biblical compulsions to charity and love of strangers – something they share with “indigenous” Christians.

            3) You think Jewish liberalism is a massive, massive existential problem which must be solved by hostile anti-semitism, whereas;

            4) I think Jews can think what they want to, not all of them support mass immigration anyway (many do not) and if you disagree with those that do then you are entitled to have a debate in a free country. It really is not a big problem in the grand scheme of things.

          • Hippograd

            Of course percentage means something. The ones who have suffered most from the immivasion are the white working class of each enriched country. That’s proved by statistics. The Jewish community are, on average, the richest ethnic group of all and they don’t have to compete with third-worlders for jobs, housing, etc. As you pointed out, Rotherham isn’t a very Jewish area.

            I don’t see how you can deny that Islamists have tried to specifically target Jews simply because they are Jews.

            I have not denied that and you can’t quote anything to prove otherwise. Muslims in general — not simply Islamists — target whites simply because they are white:

            Three Asian men who were convicted of attacking a group of friends and trying to kill one of them have each been given an 18-year jail sentence. Sodrul Islam, 23, Delwar Hussain, 21, Mamoon Hussain, 20, were sentenced at the Old Bailey. John Payne, 33, was left partially paralysed by the attack on an east London estate nearly two years ago. The court heard that as many as 30 men attacked the group of five white people, shouting racial abuse.

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7184166.stm

            But anti-white violence isn’t publicized and isn’t discussed by the mainstream parties.

            And yes, Jewish people traditionally support liberal causes including racial equality, asylum seeker rights, multi-culturalism etc.

            Yes. In other words, they support the destruction of the west.

            I do not believe in a conspiracy: I believe that they act in what they see as their own best interests, based on their self-pity and self-righteousness. They are not innocent victims of persecution: they provoke it time and time again by their own behaviour.

          • johnb1945

            It isn’t “self pity”. European Jews were the primary victims of European nationalists when they were the only visible European minority and it ended with 1/3 of their people being murdered.

            Despite this, British Jews today are more socially conservative than ever. I’ve shown you evidence of this.

            If you wish to convince those who remain liberal to tone down multiculturalism, then you convince them that, when taken to extremes, it produces ghettoes and a breakdown in social cohesion.

            In other words, have a debate.

            You might find that, despite being Jews, many British Jews hold similar views and values to your own. This is certainly my experience.

          • Hippograd

            Despite this, British Jews today are more socially conservative than ever. I’ve shown you evidence of this.

            Please explain to me how gay marriage and pandering to lies about black failure are socially conservative. The evidence you’ve shown me supports the idea that they vote Tory because the Tory party supports Israel, not because the Tory party is socially conservative:

            Around 73 per cent of Jews said the political parties’ attitudes to Israel were “very” or “quite” important in influencing how they would vote.

            It isn’t socially conservative: it’s culturally Marxist.

            In other words, have a debate.

            I’m happy to have a debate. But free speech has been steadily removed in the UK thanks to guess who?

            You might find that, despite being Jews, many British Jews hold similar views and values to your own. This is certainly my experience.

            That’s true of any group you care to mention. The effects of the group as a whole are another matter.

    • MikeF

      Also anti-American. It was noticeable that the left’s infatuation with militant Islam was ratcheted up a notch or two after 9/11.

    • red2black

      The Left isn’t monolithic in the way you describe. No Christians, Jews, or Democratic Socialists on the Left? Plenty of them seem to agree with regulated Capitalism.

      • Peter Simple

        My post might have been slightly simplistic. I acknowledge your rebuke.

    • Jack Rocks

      It’s anti-Americanism, mostly. The poor dears still haven’t got over the failure of communism. Now they mooch around without an economic theory, with nothing better to do than salute indefatigability and promote Jew Free Safe Spaces in our towns and cities.

      The left disgust me.

  • WTF

    There’s only one interpretation of someone who is friends with a terror organization like Hamas demanding the extinction of Israel or a terrorist like Bin Laden, there is nothing to contextualize. We now have it confirmed where Corbyn sympathies lie so unless non Muslims are out bred, he’s dead meat as far as No 10 is concerned.

  • Rufus Chucklebutty

    Corbyn is a nobody, a non achieving backbench MP, but he got pictured with many famous leaders that made him feel important, only the world leaders wouldn’t have anything to do with the failed socialist rubbish he spouted, they only meet serious people. He could meet Adams and McGuiness though, Hamas, and Hezbollah, and have his picture taken, he felt important, but they were using him as a usefull idiot. He uses the appease everyone trick to avoid making any decisions, pretends its a “new nice way of politics” with a false smile, the gang he has around him now have no interest whatsoever in the British people, they are only interested in far left political change, at any cost.

  • WTF

    Any politician or leader who refuses to implement rigorous vetting procedures for refugees from Islamic states is actually complicit in the allowing their citizens to be killed by terrorists or raped by pedophiles, its that simple.

    • Marky_D

      I pray that I see the day when every politician that has pushed mass immigration whilst willfully lying to the public about Islam being peaceful or ‘Islamic terrorism having nothing to do with Islam’ is hauled in front of a judge and jury to face charges of treason.

  • Ralph

    There’s a patter, Corbyn sees the evils of fundamentalist Islam but for political reasons covers them up just as much of the left did the same with the evils of the Spanish left during the civil war or Stalin’s purges and famines.

  • Hippograd

    really does sympathise with terrorists

    Only if they’re vulnerable ones with heavy tans.

    • quotes

      Not much sunshine in Ulster

      • Hippograd

        My mistake. But he does prefer them with heavy tans.

  • quotes

    What do you mean, “beginning to look”? Cameron wasn’t wrong originally and Corbyn doesn’t need to provide any further evidence: he spent the 1980s and 90s openly supporting the IRA’s “armed struggle” against the British state. He went to their funerals where he spoke about his willingness to defend their cause.

    Bear in mind that there was a peaceful republican movement at the same time. And of course this is a man who invited Hamas, Hezbollah etc to Parliament and yet never once any of their equally-dodgy opponents. He isn’t a “terrorist sympathiser” in only one, very strict sense: he doesn’t sympathise with all terrorists simply for their terrorism. But he has openly and repeatedly declared his sympathies for numerous terrorist groups and even actions (Brighton, for example, and an attack on a police station in Northern Ireland).

    The Islamists don’t even matter all that much on top of that. He can call for al-Baghdadi’s head on a stick and he’s still a terrorist sympathiser.

  • CalUKGR

    Toby, up until this piece I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone in the media so far have the historical honesty to write about Islam’s involvement with Nazism. I wonder if the BBC will ever get around to explaining just how tawdry and reprehensible Islam’s recent history has been? Muslim Waffen SS divisions? Who would have thought it?

    Well, I won’t rely on the BBC to tell me about it, that’s for sure – and even if they ever do I’m sure they find some ‘qualifying statement’ to mitigate against the facts (that’s the usual BBC way, after all).

    Thanks for the piece – Islam’s hideous historical ties to Nazism needed to be written about – and need to be made clear anyone who still harbours any delusions about political Islam.

    • siphil

      Of course the BBC being the ONLY source of information, you can’t possibly hear anything anywhere else.

      • red2black

        They have to watch the BBC because they’re forced to subscribe to it.
        Big Brother is watching them watching the BBC. If the BBC subscription was voluntary, only then would they be able to watch the hundreds of other channels that they currently only have some sort of Orwellian access to.

      • CalUKGR

        The BBC is the only broadcaster I am forced by law (and threat of imprisonment for non-payment) to pay for. This gives me the right to criticise it for its blatant, incessant and wholly unaccountable left wing bias. I pay for Sky TV, too, but if I decide to cancel the service and settle any outstanding fees Sky won’t threaten to take me to court. I can’t ‘cancel’ the BBC license fee, even if I never watch it. If you can’t see that there is no moral case for the BBC license fee I’m afraid I can’t help you.

        • red2black

          The Jocks have boycotted the fee and there’s no longer any enforcement, so what’s stopping everyone else doing the same?

          • vieuxceps2

            Is that true? If so, then the rest of us are subsidising them more than we thought. As if Barnett was not bad enough….

          • red2black

            Strange how people are suddenly imbued with a sense of involvement once their loose change is being tapped.
            They’ve actually organised a boycott. England? Looks like it’s just an excuse for a load of belly-aching and a big balloon of anti-BBC hot air.

          • vieuxceps2

            Subsidised Scots may consider £145 as loose change. We who pay the piper cannot afford to do that.

          • red2black

            I agree that the BBC subscription should be voluntary, but I don’t mind paying it myself. A strange situation where the Scots have shown the English the way to change something, but the English evidently prefer the status quo, then grumble about the consequences of doing so.

          • vieuxceps2

            Nay sir. The Scots may do as they wish, but if you watch free,the shortfall will be made up by the rest of us. On the other hand of course, you can secede and pay your own way…….

          • red2black

            The old breaking eggs to make an omelette saying springs to mind.

          • vieuxceps2

            I quire like omelettes.

        • Cyril Sneer

          I haven’t paid my licence fee in years. Just declare you don’t watch TV and ignore the snotty letters… it might be a bit tricky with a Sky subscription though.

    • Marky_D

      What could Islam and Nazism possibly have had in common…?

      I’ll give you a clue (though I realise you know the answer anyway)…. it begins with a ‘J’ and ends in ‘ew hatred’.

      • voidist

        thats what hitler openly used to say he liked about islam……

        hence germanys sudden milk of kindness for i ts arab refugees….they havent changed one bit in old ad0lfs land

    • mark

      BBC is extremely corrupt isnt it, pandering to muslims, parrotting their warfare lying etc, as does much media, though i think LBC radio seem to be perpetual cowards or with an agenda.

      I am sickend how the biased bullpoo con-operation uses our money to to all that, but most reprehensible is their islam info pages, where they have let muslims tell the most blatant lies giving the lying mocking muslims much satisfaction, especially since lies to disguise islam were also in school pages from the bbc

  • hippiepooter

    “Beginning”? It’s been patently obvious for years.

  • siphil

    I would pay for Corbyn’s fare to go to Syria to negotiate personally with IS. How do we think that would go?

    • johnb1945

      They’d welcome him in for some propaganda touchy feely interviews with a high ranking Mullah or two, give him VIP seats at a crucifixion or stoning, then send him back unharmed in the knowledge he’d tell everyone that ISIS are not, in fact, a collection of the most evil people on earth, but just a group of disaffected youth airing legitimate grievances in the only way available to them.

      All of this conditional upon air strikes allowing it, of course.

    • mark

      Maybe he wont notice its a one way ticket and that his letter of introduction, in arabic, says i know the quran shows muhamad was a dirty old paedophile…

  • Jon MC

    “Islamism” – by which we should mean “taking islam seriously” started 1400 years ago.
    ISIS
    et al are just taking Islam very seriously and imitating the ‘prophet’
    (note quotes please) Mohammed. Ol’Mo was a slaver, child abuser, warlord
    etc. There is little or nothing that ISIS does that does not have a
    precedent in the actions of ol’Mo and his gang (the “sahaba”) to whom
    Muslims are told to look for the “best example”.
    Thus I think Toby
    Young has taken a myopic view here, “Islamism” dates back to Mohammed himself. Therefore it should be called “orthodox Islam”.

    • voidist

      how dare you talk such sense ? you will soon be blasted as undemocratic for picking on

      child abusers ?

      • Jon MC

        Tin hat at the ready!

  • Harris

    Is Toby Young the reincarnation of Crowley? (I suspect not although this is an infernally good article.)

  • Liberanos

    A muslim is one who believes that every imperative in the koran is true.
    An islamist is one who believes that every imperative in the koran is true and ought to be followed.
    An islamic terrorist is one who believes that every imperative in the koran is true and follows it.

    • Wolfgang Amadeus

      And all of them, no matter their differences, by definition profess to believe that a killer was the mouthpiece of a supernatural entity that requires submission from his creation. Where do I sign up?!

    • pobjoy

      A Muslim is one who believes that every imperative in the Koran is true, though most of them don’t know what those imperatives are. That majority is held captive by the minority who threaten then with death if they apostatise. That’s the most significant social fact about Islam.

  • Hard Little Machine

    This is completely inaccurate. They’re not ignorant or stupid. They ARE genocidal fascists. This is entirely in their wheelhouse. If Corbyn ever achieves real power there will in fact be pogroms in Britain. Good old fashioned government sanctioned pogroms. There will eventually be Islamic Autonomous Regions in Britain anyway, it’s simply a matter of time so perhaps the Corbynites are just trying to get the plumb jobs in the new regime while they can.

    • JabbaPapa

      Yugoslavisation of the UK is not a desirable purpose, no.

  • Cyril Sneer

    Facts, reality do not matter to these lefties. If something is against ‘their narrative’ no matter how accurate they will effectively ignore it. They’re blinded by ideology.

  • nana

    have said this for weeks.listen to what he says.his clique are all the same.’as your friends so you will be known’.if this man,and his ‘followers’ take power it would be a disaster.he’s pulling the young people in by his smiles.they are militant bullies on steriods.

  • Kasperlos

    Reading this is exhausting. Why must the inhabitants of these once peaceful islands suffer the outrageous idiocy of so-called ‘leaders’ who commit their time and energy on the insufferable goings on of the distant third world. Has not Britain learnt by now that this island nation can do just fine without enduring the exasperating screams from the eternal crisis that is the Middle East. Enough already! Let’s have leaders engaged on the home front! Now we see the formation of the first political movement in Scotland amongst newly arrived Muslim Syrian refugees. Their first aim is to elect their own to local councils and then on to the Scottish Parliament where their full order of business will be the business of 2,500 miles distant in Syria! Lunacy!

  • voidist

    but that was always labours problem…..shot through with islamist extremists…..no better way to

    entice the muslim community…….

  • Icebow

    Surely it’s time for the reasonable Labour MPs to desert and join with the Lib Dems in a new centre-left party, which I suppose might call itself ‘New Labour’.

  • victor67

    It’s ironic Tories accusing the left of ignoring the pearls of radical Islam. Given the cosy relationship with the Wahhabi spreading House of Saud and the money and weapons they have give to ISIL and Al Nusra in Syria.

    Why do you think the Tories resisted an enquiry into external funding of extremism in the UK. They know it comes from Saudi Arabia and they don’t want to rock the boat with the head choppers when they and their cronies in BAE systems are making so much money.

    Proposing a dialogue with extremists is one thing but supporting a state that is indirectly funding them is something else entirely.

    • WTF

      But Thatcher kept them at arms length by not signing up to Schengen. Thank goodness she didn’t capitulate like all the rest otherwise we’d have a far worse problem than we already have.

  • Wolfgang Amadeus

    For the Left, islam fits within the grand narrative of The West is Evil.

    Such things as Muslim-on-Muslim violence, or The Satanic Verses, or Charlie Hedbo, etc etc, things that have nothing whatsoever to do with Western “imperialism”, are ignored … no, every conflict that happens in a Muslim-majority country becomes an “attack on islam”, and every violent action committed by a Muslim in the name of islam becomes justified.

    The Western world – Europe and its offspring – is by no means perfect, but I would argue that it is without question the most civilised in the world. Before Corbyn and his fools can spout their nonsense, I think they should be forced to live in a Muslim-majority country and see first-hand the sorts of values they so misguidedly defend.

  • WTF

    It was 30 years ago that Schengen came into force and Margaret Thatcher as PM at that time, knew exactly the sorts of risks open borders could cause for national security.

    I don’t suppose anyone like that traitor Corbyn would applaud her for being 110% correct and having such fore sight in assessing the risks of open borders.

    RIP Schengen, your turn next EU !

  • Shorne

    Talking of Islamic Nazis

    This is a memory of Ernst Verduin, a Dutch holocaust survivor,
    “I suddenly noticed a group of people who looked like actors. They were wearing long robes and strange headgear. Occasionally, internees did perform a play in the camp. I wanted to find out myself and as I walked towards that group I was stopped by a high ranking SS-officer whom I didn’t know. He was from the main camp (Auschwitz I) or Birkenau (Auschwitz II). The officer asked me, ‘What do you want?’ ‘I just wanted to know whether these people are actors or not. Is there going to be a stage performance tonight?’ ‘These people aren’t actors,’ the SS-officer told me. ‘They are the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and his retinue.’ I then asked him, ‘What is he doing here?’ ‘He is paying a visit to the camp,’ the SS-officer said. ‘He lives in Berlin where he enjoys Hitler’s personal protection. He is now paying a visit to Monowitz [aka Aushwitz III] to see how the Jews are working themselves to death in factories. He is also in Auschwitz to see the gas chambers. When we have won the war he will return to Palestine to build gas chambers and kill the Jews who are living over there”
    I was dubious about the idea of plays in ‘Auschwitz III’ but I discovered that it was built by I G Farben as an ‘Industrial camp’ and, while it is a relative term, conditions were slightly better. For example Prisoners were allowed to earn credits which they could spend at the Camp shop and such Camps had higher survival rates.

  • evad666

    Go on get on the inside track of the current Chaos and Google Bill Reeves and Debbie Berger of Hawaii.
    Has Jeremy or Seamus had an invite yet to the Hawaiian palace of these two?

  • WTF

    Despite my previous posts, I feel I owe Islam an apology of sorts.

    Without Islam we would never have seen the demise of Schengen and the likely imminent death of the EU. In time we may all thank the religion of peace for breaking up the EU and restoring our sovereignty. When that happens, I’ll thank Islam again.

  • mark

    Does the writer think islam was not evil, before hitler?

    I truely hope not otherwise even many centuries ago, 275,000,000 were killed by ahuum, moderate muslims., lett alone the millions since then UP TO WW2 and the millions since.

    • JabbaPapa

      You’re supposed to talk about the dozens of death sentences handed out during the Inquisitions, you silly-billy !!

  • Bad Lad

    The left overlook Islam’s anti-Semitism? They love it and scarcely try to disguise it. And Labour may very well recover as an Islamist party – take a look at the London mayoral election.

  • Shimon

    Congratulations on smelling the coffee now that it’s stone cold, Toby! Of course Corbyn’s worldview tolerates terrorists who fit in with his anti-Western/imperialist/colonialist agenda. And as for the hard left being willing to overlook Islamists’ antisemitism – that may apply to some of the comrades but for others antisemitism is part and parcel of their ideological tradition stretching right back to Marx. See David Cesarani’s the Jews and the Left: http://docslide.us/documents/anti-semitism-and-the-left-david-cesarani-2004.html

    • red2black

      Antisemitism is rife across the political board.

  • Sean L

    Absolute drivel – how could they be blind to the mass murder, beheadings etc, anymore than to the “liquidation” of the kulaks, the gulag, and any number of other Marxist inspired atrocities? Not to mention the everyday repressive measures that Corbyn must have witnessed personally when he visited the GDR with his love interest back in the 80s? The only person wilfully blind here is you in taking these people at face value. They are revolutionary socialists, as all the rest were. As such there is no reason to suppose that a human life holds any more value for Corbyn, particularly that of a bourgeois, which in the contemporary context is more or less equivalent to indigenous Britsh, than to his any of his predecessors.

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