Politics

Jeremy Corbyn is untouchable now

As the Labour leader’s strength grows, more and more moderates will be discarded

9 January 2016

9:00 AM

9 January 2016

9:00 AM

There have been few more pathetic displays of political impotence than the tweets sent by shadow cabinet members paying tribute to Michael Dugher after his sacking by Jeremy Corbyn. Dugher, a classic northern Labour fixer, had taken on the role of shadow cabinet shop steward. He spoke out against Momentum, the Corbynite pressure group, warned against a ‘revenge reshuffle’ and criticised negative briefings against the shadow cabinet from the leader’s office.

But rather than protesting at his sacking through a walkout, shadow cabinet members confined their solidarity to a 140-character gesture. Their tweets, rather than looking like brave defiance of the boss, actually showed just how cowed they are.

Dugher’s sacking indicates how much Corbyn’s position has strengthened since he won the leadership last September. He is still not in total control, as demonstrated by the survival of Hilary Benn as shadow foreign secretary despite his disagreement with the leader over Syria. But he is more secure than in his first days in the job, when chief whip Rosie Winterton was effectively instructed to get bums on the front bench by any means necessary. The result was a shadow cabinet that included people who had never met the leader and others who were bitterly opposed to his politics. Now, Corbyn has a team with views closer to his own. Crucially, the new shadow defence secretary, Emily Thornberry, is another unilateralist.

The events of the past few months have vindicated those who simply refused to serve under Corbyn because they so profoundly disagreed with him. Labour figures who took the opposite course lent credence to the idea that the shadow cabinet would represent the full spectrum of Labour opinion. But the sackings of Dugher and the Blairite Europe spokesman Pat McFadden show that Corbyn intended to have such people on his front bench only for as long as necessary. And as his strength grows, more moderates will be discarded. By accepting a job, then being sacked, Dugher and McFadden confirm that if anyone is in charge of today’s Labour party, it is Corbyn.

The removal of Dugher has also demonstrated that Tom Watson, the deputy leader, cannot protect those who fall on the wrong side of Corbyn. Many in the parliamentary Labour party were relying on Watson, the only person other than Corbyn with an individual mandate, to shield them from the leader and, perhaps more importantly, his supporters. The removal of Dugher, one of Watson’s best friends in the shadow cabinet, shows the limits of the deputy leader’s power.

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Corbyn’s consolidation of his position has not been accompanied by any public surge in support for him. In fact, the opposite has happened. According to the latest YouGov poll, 60 per cent of voters now think he is doing a bad job as Labour leader. And it isn’t just the opinion polls; Labour is doing even more badly in local council by-elections than it was in the last parliament.

Nevertheless, Corbyn looks more and more likely to carry on as leader until 2020. The Labour ‘selectorate’ remain enthused by him and there is no sign of the moderates recruiting more than the 100,000 new members they would need to challenge him successfully. At the same time, the parliamentary Labour party is showing no interest in a procedural coup to remove him. Indeed, the lesson of the Syria vote was that grassroots pressure was effective in deterring Labour MPs from rebelling against the leadership. It is hard to imagine many of them having the stomach to topple the party’s democratically elected leader.

For their part, the trade unions won’t mobilise against Corbyn collectively because the general secretaries know that their own re-election depends on maintaining a certain level of Corbynite support.

What is so frustrating for veteran Labour types is that there is no shortage of targets that the opposition is missing as it fixates on these internal battles. On a day-to-day level, Labour failed to land a glove on the government over the floods. Strategically, Labour’s reshuffle chaos allowed David Cameron to announce that he will suspend collective cabinet responsibility for the EU referendum without paying any political price. Given what is happening inside Labour at the moment, Corbyn can hardly attack the Tories for being divided. Longer term, there is also the fact that Labour is nowhere on the economy despite indications that the world economic outlook could give Britain a very bumpy ride over the next few months.

Senior Tories accept that there is a market for an anti-austerity politics. They are acutely aware of how effective it could be if the economy hit the skids. But they believe that it would require a youthful, charismatic figure akin to the Greek leader Alexis Tsipras to capitalise on this. They calculate that not even a global recession could make Corbyn appear a plausible Prime Minister.

If Corbyn is leading his party to electoral disaster but he can’t be removed, what do Labour moderates do?

One school of thought is that they just write off the 2020 election as a bad job and hope that an even heavier election defeat will bring the membership to its senses. But there are whispers that a new party is needed, that now that Corbyn is leader it will never be possible to put the hard left back in its box again.

The obstacles to setting up any new party are formidable — as the failure of the SDP demonstrated. The last election, in which Ukip gained only one MP despite winning more than 12 per cent of the national vote, was a reminder that it hasn’t got any easier to break the mould of British politics. But, intriguingly, the EU referendum campaign might be providing the vehicle for the creation of one. The ‘in’ campaign has brought together ‘Blairite’ Labour types and Lib Dem ‘Orange Bookers’, and the two groups have found that they agree on nearly everything. There is much joking about forming a new party. One wonders if this banter might become something more serious if politics continues on its current trajectory.

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Show comments
  • rakeshkapila

    Let the Marxism rule Britain, Let there be Glory to the working man in UK !
    Labor party shall over come all and capture the golden castles of conservatives very soon.

    • SkyBluePM

      I LOVE your sarcasm. Or you need help if it ISN’T sarcasm!

      • rakeshkapila

        Yes! Need a little greater push from the Labor, let the workers of Europe unite. Then, they shall surely leave these frustrated Jehadis behind.

        Echos from the past shall inundate the streets, and the future shall be bright and golden, The grandeur of imperial history shall overtake future, and the working men shall be slaves of none. Shall be a True Freedom Indeed.! It all sound a bit of sarcasm to the non believers now, but the golden gates of heavens shall open soon with 72x72x72 virgins at the welcoming doors. Brexit or no Brexit, Me & I shall all turn in to We and We soon!

        • Paul_Wesson

          Labour (check spelling) is going backwards fast. They lost the General Election badly and were virtually wiped out in Scotland (the last Scottish recount at the GE almost gave the Tories double Labour’s remaining representation). The House of Commons is currently weighted in Labour’s favour under present constituency boundaries. In 2020 there will be 600 MPs elected instead of 650, but with constituency boundaries that are more balanced. If Labour cannot win with the odds stacked in their favour, they cannot win when the odds are against them and they are utterly divided. Labour need a massive push by a united party with a credible leader. That’s not about to happen in the next 9 years.

          • Seax

            Phoenix.

            It is the Tories that are looking pre-Victorian. They want to make us all serf workers.

          • Paul_Wesson

            Serfs? I thought the result of the Battle of Bosworth (1485) led to the Tudor dynasty. Henry VII started the process of modernisation which, followed by the Reformation and dissolution of the monasteries coupled to Henry VIII running out of cash and selling off feudal obligations, led to the end of serfdom and the beginnings of hired labour. Serfdom implies feudal service in return for the protection of the Lord, but without the land rights of the villein. I cannot identify any policy of any party that will return England and Wales to that state (feudalism continued in Scotland for some time afterwards, but that’s a different bit of history).

            If you think that the Tories will return us to serfdom you must be very young and susceptible to the arguments of the SWP/Momentum since your knowledge of history and politics is sub-GCSE.

          • rakeshkapila

            They recently discovered the skeleton of Richard-III, soon he shall be the leading the Brit politics again!

          • John Cresswell-Plant

            The worst thing is that I’ve been saying that we were headed for a Georgian-style nation for 5 years.

          • Jess

            I don’t want to make wetsuits though.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      Marxism?

    • Lucy

      Labour have NEVER helped the working man of the UK EVER. It has always been the Tories that have helped us. Labour just makes EVERYONE poorer and feign they care when the reality is they are snobs from the Islington set who think they’re intellectual.

      • Gareth Dean

        Not a fan of the NHS, then?

        • polidorisghost

          It’s crap, expensive crap.

          • Seax

            You want the American system?

            Also, the NHS is being run down. The British nurses have given up and it is now being run by foreign immigrants.

            Stress levels are huge and the Government want to smite the medical workers even more.

            As with any State provision, righties hate it but will demand its full application when they need it.

          • Lancastrian_Oik

            “You want the American system?”

            Typical binary response- no, we’d like something that works which means looking at running the system the way they do everywhere else in Europe.

          • polidorisghost

            I didn’t mention the American system.
            You argue like a child

        • Clive

          The NHS was conceived by a Liberal and would have been implemented by whatever government got in in 1945, Tory or Labour.

          http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/31/without-winston-churchill-nhs-would-not-exist

          Without Winston Churchill the NHS would not exist.

          Not Aneurin Bevan, who was Winston Churchill’s “one man opposition”
          during the wartime government.

          In 1943, on March 21st Winston Churchill broadcast his Plan for Post-
          war Britain,”echoing his own previous goals of 1908 and 1924, and drawing,
          as he had done in 1908, on the ideas of William Beveridge: it was a report
          by Beveridge that now served as a blueprint for the new scheme.”

          “In his broadcast Churchill spoke of the need to establish a National
          Health Service on ‘broad and solid foundations’, to provide national
          compulsory insurance ‘from cradle to grave’, and to ensure far wider
          educational opportunities and ‘fair competition’ so extended that Britain
          would draw its leaders from every type of school and wearing every kind of
          tie’…

        • Lucy

          The nhs is still free last time I looked, any talk of privatising it is from Labour activists and it was Labour who initially started contracting out-so there u go!

  • Mark Newman

    It took the quiet man to slowly but effectively destroy the poor man’s Tory party. The Blairite Tories will soon be a thing of the past. Benn will be on the chopping block soon enough.

  • http://www.3spoken.co.uk/ Neil Wilson

    I do like the way ‘moderate’, is joining the term ‘special’ in the intonation you use when saying the word.

    I expect ‘moderate’ will sit alongside the term ‘anarchist’ as a word that means one thing within the little clique that self refers by that name, and entirely the opposite outside it.

    • Chris

      See also ‘progressive’.

  • rtj1211

    Well, I guess at the next election voters will have a distinct choice…….

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      can’t have that. Better have a system like in Russia where every party stands for essentially the same things.

      at least that’s what the establishment would like

      • Team Matt Nicholson

        Still perpetuating the myth of the “establishment”? The “establishment” died out years ago, with the last of the First World War Generals. We lost two thirds of the aristocracy in the Somme, fighting alongside their men, leading them into battle, and all you lefties have to say about it is “good job!”

        • Seax

          Then why are the Press et al so keen to end the return of the left?

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          just read how JC is misquoted in the press. Time and time again.

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    Let’s be honest

    if you were the boss of an organisation and Dugher and McFadden criticised you in the way they have… would they still be in a job?

    Would they?

    • Puddle

      Why are you being deceptive in your choice of words? Why did you write “organisation” as opposed to “political party” since that’s what we’re talking about?

      Are we non-Corbynistas supposed to forget Jeremy was elected on a platform of open debate in the party since he knew he had no support in the PLP?

      Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to the ‘man of principle’ having to be let off on a technicality that when he was a party rebel he only did it from the back-benches?

      When Corbynistas throw these little hissy-fits it reveals their insecurity in ‘Dear Leader’ – bear in mind a lot of them elected Corbyn knowing he had no realistic hope of winning a GE; their mindless self-indulgence is what led to this cringe inducing farce in the first place.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        open debate has its limits. The LP is far far more open than I ever remember it to be.

        • McRobbie

          Unless you stand up and point out that terrorists are to blame for their actions and no one else. Then you’re dead meat. If that is being open then what is closed ?

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            I have not seen anyone disagree with that view. McFadden went much further.

    • http://mikepower.net Mike Power

      It’s a shadow cabinet, not ASDA!

  • Torybushhug

    A lemon hierarchy is created when the leader wants only one way of thinking, only positive feedback from dutiful captains. Many a once great organisation has become detached from reality to its cost, many a battle lost for the leader being detached from the front line.

    Corbyn and his ilk wouldn’t have the first clue as to the reality of working class sensibility.

    • Seax

      The Right want a one-part State. They nearly got it with New Labour. That has gone now.

      Do the Tories know that taking money from the working poor makes them poorer? How does that work as ‘a first clue’?

      • wildcolonialboy

        Ah yes, the hard left delusion that anything to the right of Stalin is inherently right-wing. You extreme leftists genuinely have no idea how pathetic and cultish you appear to normal people, do you?

        • Seax

          Do you think hard rightwingers seem any better? There is a difference though, lefties care about the poor.

          • starfish

            Yes

            They clean their mansions

      • McRobbie

        Seeing as the “working poor” must have got their money from the “working better off” then maybe that explains how an economy works. It is clear that the corbyn is a believer in the driving ethos of the left …equality of poverty for everyone.

        • Seax

          The working ‘better off’ are only that way because they have pulled the ladder up.

          Indeed, some are the same people that are underpaying and overcharging. Particularly BTLers.

          If the poor are pushed into poverty they will not stand for it.

          Ask the French about ‘eating cake’.

          Still, as long as you are OK, that is all that matters.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      the party is more open and the freedom to speak your mind greater that at any point I remember

      dugher and mcfadden went too far. Some limits do exist on freedom of debate, but they are far far beyond what is custom for a political party.

      • McRobbie

        McFadden stated the factual obvious…terrorists are responsible for their own action and not the west. Is it not being honest to speak the real truth rather than reiterate the Stop the War dogma backed by the Corbyn. Clearly Corbyn’s broad church approach only accepts a width that starts with his views and moves leftwards with an anti UK anti democracy and pro terrorist biase !

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          no he really did not. He suggested that _any_ attempt to investigate and discuss the root causes of terrorism and the contribution of the West’s actions to radicalisation amounts to ‘infantilisation’ of the terrorists and the justification of their actions. He might well believe that, I doubt he really does. I give him more credit than that.

  • Forlornehope

    There is an alternative to the present government that makes sense. We need the choice of a party that will propose more government spending on health, education and infrastructure paid for by everyone over median income paying more tax. That is an honest and workable policy, which may, or may not, appeal to the electorate. The trouble is that nobody in the Labour party, on the left, right or centre, has the guts to put it forward. The British people deserve the choice but until Labour develops some backbone they’re not going to get it.

    • McRobbie

      Traditional left solution to everything..spend more …never ever ever try to do it better, that would require commitment and a willingness to take on the vested trade unionized interests….not something the left will ever dare to do.

  • http://mikepower.net Mike Power

    “The removal of Dugher, one of Watson’s best friends in the shadow cabinet, shows the limits of the deputy leader’s power.” Is the writer really that naive? Watson is only interested in his own political future. The worse Corbyn performs the better the chances for Watson to become leader. The last thing he will do is anything to rein in Corbyn’s madness. Watson must laugh himself to sleep every night.

  • jeremy Morfey

    Why is Corbyn so very different from any other party leader, who claims the prerogative to promote whom he likes and sack those he cannot get on with? I don’t recall such a fuss when Thatcher purged the “wets” many of whom considerably more senior and more accomplished than these token Blairites. Yes, they will cause trouble on the back benches – but what’s new? As poacher turned gamekeeper, Corbyn must be well aware of every backbench trick to get noticed.

    I actually think the promotion of Emily Thornberry a brilliant move – a human rights lawyer, rather than a militarist, in order to put the case for an alternative approach when bombs, once again, are seen not to work. I’m not yet convinced it will work, but anything is worth a punt right now when all the consensus can come up with is looming global war. Mind you, I’d stick an old sweat like Dan Jarvis immediately below her just in case, if he can be persuaded.

    So we come to Hilary Benn. Considering the brazen contradiction of his leader’s policy using language that impressed everyone, and the fact that he has not yet been tested at a leadership election and therefore kept his powder dry, I’d have thought that he too is untouchable. Unlike Dugher and McFadden, Benn’s threat to call out most of the parliamentary party in solidarity should he be pushed aside was not a hollow one, and Momentum knows it. In this heavyweight, we have another poacher-turned-gamekeeper over two generations, and his dad was certainly the Corbyn of his day, and also knows precisely how to hang on to power and influence in the party when all the populist guns are firing at him.

    • Seax

      Benn was trying to ape Churchill but he sided with a military solution that is not a solution.

      He should have gone for those the arm and fund Daesh. But he didn’t.

      • wildcolonialboy

        You seem to be confused, Seax.

        (1) The Western allies have gone after the arming and funding, by closing off the Syrio-Turkish border with a border fence that is now 90% complete, by implementing sanctions against individuals who help fund ISIL like the pro-Assad middleman George Haswani who faciliates oil deals between ISIL and the Assad regime, and by directly attacking the SVBIED factories that are churning out suicide car bombs

        (2) The vast majority of ISIL funding comes from its oil business, from extortion and ransoms and from taxing the millions of subjects under its control

        (3) The moronic far left delusion that somehow we can just isolate ISIL inside its borders and then hope it will collapse is beyond idiotic. ISIL is sitting on an enormous stockpile of weapons, ammunition and explosives it captured from the Iraqi Army in 2014.

        What is not a solution is what the far left terrorist sympathisers propose, to leave the Kurds in the lurch, allow the Iraqi government to collapse and let ISIL get on with it. Thankfully, the anti-war opinion is irrelevant and the people who actually hold power in the West understand the importance of tackling this murderous death cult

        • jush

          This is what I need to understand…Am I a ‘far left terrorist sympathiser’ because I was against bombs without any further military action of our own such as ground troops? And further, Do i sympathise with the terrorists because I think that for the extra damage we do with these bombs we could have had far greater leverage in organising a ground troops plan with the rest of the world? Once ISIL is over…which will probably be very quickly…what are we doing with Assad? Because the same vacuum will leave the same terrorist organisation years on. As sad as France was it means we, again, go into war short-sighted – because we have to be seen to ‘be doing our bit’…when are we going to answer the real question of Assad?

          ‘The moronic far left delusion that somehow we can just isolate ISIL inside its borders’ – most of the stupid far left people I’ve spoken to think they can use more diplomacy and other means – their whole point is that ISIL isn’t just within it’s borders but is a global organisation. That’s just their moral superiority complex…and lack of simple understanding that some people/organisations are so evil they HAVE to be killed/stopped.

          I don’t understand the left and the right political characterizations in this country. Take this statement/action: ‘Bombing another country’ – How is that a conservative or left-wing opinion per se? It’s just we associate more liberal people and other left-wing groups with anti-war messages …but EVERY SINGLE political debate where an answer has some form of nuance or morality is suddenly dusted off as left-wing… Since Cobyrn has got in…so many of my once apolitical statements are suddenly left-wing and according to all surveys i’m supposedly right of centre :S

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            it’s left-wing to ever suggest that our plan for military action could ever be flawed, don’t you know…

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          how about we help the Kurds more? Oh wait we can’t, because our ally Turkey won’t let us…

          • Clive

            Not really. It’s because the Kurds are limited by geography. They cannot (and won’t) go outside their historically Kurdish areas without annoying other Sunni Syrians.

          • Adam

            We should indeed be helping the Kurds. They are ignored by the world.

    • http://batman-news.com/ Whizjet

      He’s different primarily because he has no chance at all of winning an election.
      He’s also different because he knows that, and doesn’t care, because ideological purity and Socialist values are more important to him than winning elections.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        that’s totally unrelated to the post you are replying to

    • Clive

      The reason is that when they were first appointed to the shadow cabinet there was much talk of different opinions being tolerated and so forth. It does look as though Jeremy Corbyn and friends were keen to get a ‘heavyweight’ looking cabinet but did not think it through to parliamentary disagreements.

      There’s no question but that prime ministers have been ruthless in getting rid of ideological opposition – think of Harold Macmillan’s ‘Night of the Long Knives’ – but Jeremy Corbyn has made much of the ‘new politics’ and accepting opinions of a different ideological nature from his own.

      I don’t know that Benn threatened to ‘call anyone out’ – I believe they did it of their own accord but you may know more than me.

      • rtj1211

        Let me tell you from experience: just because you believe in the ‘new politics’ and treat everyone with respect, doesn’t mean that everyone else will treat you with respect. I’ve been there in business, seen it, done it, got the t-shirt. Others let you sort out all the festering wounds, then turn on you for narrow advantage.

        Either you are ruthless in that situation or you get out.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        even now, JC’s cabinet is far more free to speak their mind than any Labour cabinet since the 80’s

        different opinions still exist there, but there are limits.

    • Cyclops

      Emily Thornberry is great – what with her kickbacks from other law firms making unfounded nuisance claims against British troops…

  • jmjm208

    In the meantime the Tories are rubbing their hands with glee as they contemplate a massive victory in 2020.

    • Seax

      No chance. Osborne has opened a 2nd front on the poor.

      • jmjm208

        Osborne may well have “opened a 2nd front on the poor” but, unfortunately, most people are selfish and only think of themselves – the reason why the Tories have been so successful is because they appeal to man’s basic instinct, which is greed.

        Consequently, unless Labour come their senses they are handing the Tories a runaway victory in 2020.

    • AdrianM

      Better that, than a socialist government with entrenched controlling aspirations.

    • rtj1211

      Depends on the economy then. After a decade in power, there won’t be any excuses left.

      • Tamerlane

        They won’t need any either, middle England will never go for Corbyn in a million years and it’s middle England that decides elections.

  • Patrick Roy

    What a loser, like trying to run an old, dead pit.

    • Rev ‘O’Lution

      Yeah we have 400 years worth of coal left that can be burnt cleanly with the right technology- for example the hot silica fluid bed burning principle. But we can buy worse abroad.

      • Rev ‘O’Lution

        Or Chinese nuclear :)

        • Icebow

          He’s the ‘unclear deterrent’ against voting Labour.

  • mickey667

    It is up to commentators and democrats to hold the Tories to account in their strategy t create, through legislation, a one party state.

    Electoral register reform, changes in party funding riles and boundary changes will tie up Tory rule on only 1/4 of the vote forever more.

    Not a healthy situation

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      no it is not. This is why people like Dugher, who focus on criticising the leadership at the expense of criticising the Tories had to go.

      Open debate is all well and good, but there are limits to it. If it interferes with the opposition’s job of opposing, then you have to go.

      • JJD

        Corbyn is interfering. He has to go.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          I have not heard him criticising his colleagues

          whereas Dugher never seemed to go out of the news in the past few weeks

          the bare minimum as a member of the opposition is that you stick to criticising the gov’t as a first priority. JC does it, so why couldn’t dugher?

          • Paul_Wesson

            He’s not actually opposing the government either. He was like a wet cabbage at PMQs and was off target with his questions about the floods. A skilled politician would have challenged the building of homes and businesses on flood plains.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            one might be unable, the other unwilling. There’s a difference.

          • rtj1211

            Unfortunately, a lot of that was done by the imbeciles in the Blair-Brown years.

            The thought process of ‘joined up thinking’ didn’t seem to permeate: as they were all climate change nut jobs, you would have thought they would have said: ‘OK – global warming equals more floods. So no building houses in flood plains’.

            But that was beyond the Government of the Oxbridge PPE SPAD set……

          • JJD

            Jeremy Corbyn is making Labour totally and utterly unelectable. That’s why he’s being criticized, that’s why he has to go.

          • tribal_leader

            Utterly not electable according to whom? GTFOH.

          • JJD

            The UK electorate, nitwit.

          • Ooh!MePurse!

            No! That’s why he must stay!

          • Clive

            Corbyn does not criticise his colleagues.

            Seumas Milne does it for him so that he can be clean.

          • Icebow

            I pronounce that first name as if it were French. If he wants to be called ‘Seamus’, he should effing spell it properly.

          • Clive

            His father is Alasdair Milne, former Director-General of the BBC.

            Note the D in Alasdair that is not a T.

          • Icebow

            So, the former DG would seem somewhat subliterate when it came to naming offspring; though I think ‘Alasdair’ is an accepted variant along with ‘Alistair’ and ‘Aleister’.

          • rtj1211

            Very common spelling in Scotland you know…..

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            what has milne said that was so terrible?

            compared to slagging off every grassroots organisation behind JC (and the party)?

            at least milne opposes the tories…

    • Clive

      What’s the electoral register reform ?

      I haven’t heard of it

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    the question in the first line is about sackings from the shadow cabinet…

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    isn’t that interesting…

    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/152004/jeremy-corbyn-promotes-israel-supporter-fabian-hamilton-junior-shadow-foreign-ro

    but it interferes with the mainstream narrative of ‘JC is an anti-semite’, so the press ignore it. This is a good example of the anti-JC bias: there is no reason why the above story should have less prominence than say the sacking of Dugher. And yet it was ignored totally, as it puts JC in a good light.

    • Clive

      I did not have any idea that anyone thought of Jeremy Corbyn as antisemitic

      • Dominic Stockford

        No, but he has many friends and praises highly many who are…

      • Adam

        If you surround yourself with people who hate Jews, and share a platform with them, and have an obsession with demonising Israel, doesn’t it raise a question?

        • Cyril Sneer

          Booom.

        • red2black

          Britain has always done lots of business with Arabs and Jews, regardless of who’s in power.

    • dlp6666

      There again, also from the JC.com, re Martin Dugher: http://www.thejc.com/node/151915

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        the point is the very different amount of exposure the two stories got

        wonder why

    • Adam

      So what? Corbyn’s track record is appalling. You can’t just wipe it clean – unless he retracts some of his earlier pronouncements, which he hasn’t.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        as appaling as that of any other major british political figure

        • Steven

          No, he has openly associated with outright Jew haters, and taken their stances in some cases, something which doesn’t seem to bother you.

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    ‘Why is Corbyn so very different from any other party leader, who claims the prerogative to promote whom he likes and sack those he cannot get on with? ‘

    I could respond with an equally soundbite-y insult, but supporters of JC don’t do personal ))

    • http://batman-news.com/ Whizjet

      He IS different.
      He’s a hard Left politician who learnt nothing from Foot or Scargill.
      He is destroying a once significant political Party.
      As a Conservative, I wish him well.
      Objectively, I feel rather sorry for him.
      But do not EVER presume to interpret the grammatical response of others because your knowledge of syntax, not to mention logic, may be somewhat lacking.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        still no mention of sackings and promotion. So question unanswered. C-, must try harder.

        • http://batman-news.com/ Whizjet

          Not at all, the further Left the Shadow Cabinet goes, the better! (For us)

  • Icebow

    His whole caste has always been untouchable.

  • Clifton

    Your use of the term “Moderates” to describe politicians that are more akin to Tories is a deliberate slant on the realities. Corbyn is more of a moderate than those Tory light right wing Labour MPs. You have completely failed to grasp that British politics like that across the pond has shifted radically to the right; thanks to Tony Blair! I guess you would consider Tony Blair a moderate by your own definition. That would be nothing less than a complete farce! I think you need to re-calibrate your perspective some because it is misaligned. Be prepared to eat your words; like during the Labour leadership campaign where all the would be pundits gave him no chance of winning, there will be a big surprise come 2020!! Watch this space!

    • Marvin

      Nobody ever gave it a though that there were so many single cell tree hugging suicidal Utopian imbeciles out in the wilderness. Your terrorist hugging uncontrollable sexual urge for swamping this land with halal bush meat eating primitive unbred savages will one day show you lot their inherent ungratefulness.

      • Clifton

        Hahaha. Your vociferous babble shows that you’re not just out of touch with the average Brit, but that you’re a bigot. I am thankful that people who hold your point of view are well within minority, hover on the margins and thus your views will remain peripheral rather than mainstream. Cheer up though Marvin, you can rub shoulders with your BNP and English First mates, oh wait, where’s your mate Nick Griffin?!?!? Miss him much?

    • Dominic Stockford

      Corbyn is a moderate? Umm, just no.

      • Clifton

        Ok, let’s engage in a sensible debate for once. I will ask you this; which of his policies would you consider immoderate?
        Also, who would you consider a moderate in the current political circles and please do state their politics to back this up? There are lots of people making uneducated comments with nothing empirical. :)

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          they always go quiet when you ask that

        • The Wiganer

          1. He wants a united Ireland, irrespective of the opinion of the northern irish.
          2. He wants the Falklands given to Argentina, irrespective of the opinion of the islanders.
          3. He wants the UK to abandon our allies in NATO.
          4. Won’t use british forces abroad, ever. So no defending the victims of IS like the Yazidis.
          4. He wants rent controls like came in during 1974, after which the market collapsed.
          5. Right to buy for private tenants BUT NOT for housing association or council tenants.
          6. Will reopen dirty, deep coal mines but opposed to dirty, deep fracking.
          7. Unlimited immigration
          8. Will print money to spend on government projects.
          9. Nationalisation of pretty much everything, including banks.
          10. Large tax rises for ‘the rich’ and corporations.
          11. Peace negotiations in the middle-east (Israel not invited).

          If you think these policies are moderate then you can vote for them. That’s democracy. But don’t be surprised if lots of people disagree.

          • Clifton

            1. He wants a united Ireland, irrespective of the opinion of the northern irish.

            >> His idea for holding peace talks with the IRA which was rejected by Thatcher initially was the very same tactic that was eventually accepted by John Major. Had the conservative government at the time done so earlier, there would have been peace with the IRA way before. So what you’re saying is a complete and utter lie!

            2. He wants the Falklands given to Argentina, irrespective of the opinion of the islanders.
            >>The Falklands is completely and utterly Argentinian territory!! This is nothing immoderate, it’s logical. Look where the Falklands is and where the UK is geographically! Rubbish!

            3. He wants the UK to abandon our allies in NATO.
            >> He did not say he wanted to leave NATO, just to change it from it’s expansionism towards the Russian border where there could very well be a fuel for confrontation and war. This also is very rational!

            4. Won’t use british forces abroad, ever. So no defending the victims of IS like the Yazidis.
            >> It was the Bush and Blair invasion of Iraq that caused ISIS. Cameron wanted to bomb bomb bomb without a coherent political plan in Syria!! This is completely moderate. It’s the hawkish behaviour of the millitary industrial complex which has been listened to by the politicians that has landed us in the middle of this mess! This again sir.

            4. He wants rent controls like came in during 1974, after which the market collapsed.
            >> Come and live in London and you will understand a few things that the average Brit will never be able to buy a property in London in their lifetime because it’s being completely bought out and exploited by foreigners who are getting a bigger return on their investment than the 0.5% interest rates being offered by Government back bonds! You are clueless. The only way to prevent this grotesque trend is regulation which is what government is for!!

            5. Right to buy for private tenants BUT NOT for housing association or council tenants.
            >> Right to buy is a complete farce!! It’s a Thatcher conservative policy and nothing to do with Corbyn! Another lie!

            6. Will reopen dirty, deep coal mines but opposed to dirty, deep fracking.
            >> Ahaha you’re just a lier! Rubbish!

            7. Unlimited immigration
            Rubbish! I won’t dignify this with a response!

            8. Will print money to spend on government projects.
            >> You know nothing about economics! You have to invest in government schemes which will boost the labour market, boost business and thus increase taxable revenue. This is backed by a majority of economists!

            9. Nationalisation of pretty much everything, including banks.
            >> Hahahaha. I won’t dignify this with a response. Rubbish!

            10. Large tax rises for ‘the rich’ and corporations.
            >> You mean closing those nasty loopholes which can only be exploited by only the super wealthy who are current by the way paying little to no taxes yet own the news papers with which are used to brainwash simpletons like you!

            11. Peace negotiations in the middle-east (Israel not invited).
            >> http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/152004/jeremy-corbyn-promotes-israel-supporter-fabian-hamilton-junior-shadow-foreign-ro
            You’re just an idiot really.

            If you think these policies are moderate then you can vote for them. That’s democracy. But don’t be surprised if lots of people disagree.

            >> You need learn to be objective, open your mind and stop reading the Murdock press with their hysterics and lies! Open your mind!! I can’t believe you’ve taken your time to write that nonsense above! What rubbish!

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            half of these aren’t actually his policies ))

            e.g. 4 is not true. JC repeatedly re-iterated that IS needs to be fought. Just listen to his statement in the commons from the debate on syria. And besides, what did the West do about Turkey who was hindering the Kurds from fighting to help the Yazidis? Sod fricking all.

            6 – he stated he will not open the mines

            1 – when did he say that any transition to a united ireland would be irrespective of the wishes of the population?

            2- ditto, for the falklands.

            11 – JC has reiterated his support for the peace process, with israel very much invited

            couple of other suspect ones I haven’t bothered checking…

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        in any continental european country he would be

      • mervynhyde

        Then you must be an extremist, he wants an end to austerity, he wants to save the NHS, he wants to talk to people rather than bomb them out of their homes, then stop them from fleeing to safety. Do you really think Cameron isn’t an extremist.

        • Dominic Stockford

          1. The government is spending more than it gets in. That isn’t austerity.
          2. The NHS isn’t under threat, though with such expenditure as tattoo removal and fertility treatment it is becoming unaffordable.
          3. No-one is bombing anyone out of their homes. Though they are acting as many of those driven out of Syria have asked them to, and are attacking the vile murderers, ISIS, and seeking to rid the world of a threat which would happily kill us all. While it may not succeed, such an effort has a chance, whereas ISIS talk to no-one.

          • Seax

            1. It is incompetence then?

            Perhaps they should concentrate on getting the tax from the rich that refuse to pay.

            2. The NHS is under threat because of its success. People are getting sicker because they are living longer but do not want to pay the taxes needed to support their care. Therefore the Government bears down on the medics but making their lives a misery and refusing to pay them a wage that reflects their importance to us all (nurses have been told they will not get a pay rise for another 5 years. That will be 15 years in total).

            They then allow their corporate mates to raid the NHS through anything from supply contracts to agency nursing. Cigars all ’round.

            3. The bombing will not stop Daesh. It is a weak gesture. It will make someone more profits though.

            If we want to end Daesh we need to cut their funding and arms supply. Something Tories do not want to do.

            If the Tories were interested in protecting us they would not slash funding for all of the systems that do so. But as usualy they have.

            The floods are just another example of this. They do the wrong thing and cut funding and then towns and cities are underwater.

            Their solution? To pay farmers to flood their fields. ‘Holy Subsidies Batman’…

          • mervynhyde

            I don’t even believe you believe what you say.
            Why are they cutting benefits for the needy whilst giving tax cuts to the rich ?
            Where do you think all those refugees are coming from?
            Are you happy in the knowledge that cancer patients have been forced back to work and died very soon afterwards? All in the name of making work pay.
            Churchill would have been proud of that wouldn’t he?

    • richbpink

      Its the same tactic used in America where the extreme right wing makes out its patriotic and stands for American values etc etc in reality they are Corporate puppets it seems to be going the same way here with the conservatives.. Its like this big lie about being center ground to win going by the press propaganda Corbyn is hard left going by countries in Europe like Germany you know Europe’s most successful economy Corbyn is the centre ground. I think the British are possibly the most misinformed country in Europe politically virtually all our media is right wing now and full of lies and propaganda divide deceive and distract seems to be a common theme in the British media these days.

      • Seax

        Fake patriotism is common as a defence. It doesn’t stop the right from selling us out to foreign concerns if it means profit for them or their mates.

  • tribal_leader

    Why won’t he make a plausible Prime Minister? Does he not look like somebody’s father, brother, uncle, teacher, friend? Oh wait let me guess, a prime minister must be full of…hot air? That will definitely rule JC out imo. Good for him!

    • Dominic Stockford

      Because he’s a teenage arguer who has never grown beyond that. If he was elected PM I would be terrified for what it would do to this country.

      • rtj1211

        Well, right now we seem to be slaves to MI6 and the CIA, who go warmongering wherever they want, all over the world, without proper oversight and without any retribution. That’s why they do it so often, because none of them ever get shot, hung or sent to prison.

        You’re happy about that state of affairs, are you??

        • Adam

          We are not slaves to MI6 or the CIA – we have politicians who make those decisions.
          Much better we unilaterally disarm, just as Russia, China, and a resurgent Islamism are on the march. That makes complete sense.

          • mervynhyde

            Think you can bomb terrorists into submission do you?

          • richbpink

            The definition of insanity …Repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result. … says it all really.

          • red2black

            Sounds a bit like voting. (arf arf)

          • red2black

            America did it at the end of World War 2.

          • Seax

            ‘Let God sort the innocent from the guilty’?

          • red2black

            I’m not religious. Even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Thunder God kamikaze squadron took to the skies, but to no avail. Bearing in mind, no-one else had ‘the bomb’, and the Americans were losing many more thousands of men the longer the fighting continued.

          • Steven

            Yup – that’s generally how you win wars. Our problem is that we’re not prepared to dish out the level of violence necessary to achieve that.

          • richbpink

            It does when Donald Trump will have his finger on the Button we would be better off taking our Chances with Isis and conventional weapons to be honest Russia and China have no interest here they own most of the country already they are hardly going to destroy their own investment 😉

        • Ooh!MePurse!

          Over Christmas I watched an old series of Spooks and suddenly realised where nutters like you get their ludicrous ideas.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        you mean he uses shakespeare in parliament for cheap digs?

        wait what?

      • mervynhyde

        Why aren’t you terrified now with a pathological liar in charge of the Tories like Cameron, oh and by the way experts have been telling you for some time now that the British economy is on a knife edge, but then carry on voting Tory you know they don’t care.

        • Dominic Stockford

          I didn’t vote Tory. I stood myself, as more people should do.

          • mervynhyde

            Perhaps you could tell us the main planks of your platform, and how many votes you attracted?

          • Dominic Stockford

            That is all a matter of public record. Look it up.

          • mervynhyde

            Isn’t that what all Tories end up saying when put in a corner?

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            he’s UKIP

          • mervynhyde

            Thank you Mara, that explains everything, frightened to tell us what he really stands for.

      • ButcombeMan

        The big danger would come BEFORE he was elected, if the polls put it as possibility, the run on the pound would begin.

        • richbpink

          We will be Bankrupt by then already Osborne has put out a warning today as predicted by 80% of economists his policies have not only failed but made things worse. Still Labour saved us after world War two looks like they will have to do it again. On the Bright side its the End for the Conservative Party.

          • Seax

            The Big Con is becoming harder for the rich to hide.

    • Cyclops

      The fact that he is a failure whose academic credentials are two E grades at A-Level and dropping out of polytechnic rather undermines his intellectual pretensions. A bath and a shave would make him look less like someone whose appearance outside the school gates would prompt a call to 999 though…

      • Jimathome

        Clearly you have the right name in Cyclops from your rather myopic opinion about Jeremy

        • Cyclops

          I know. Facts are so inconvenient for morons such as yourself!

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        Major ahem

        • Cyclops

          You mean John Major – who qualified as a chartered banker as opposed to Corbyn who has no qualifications and has never held a job outside politics? Apologies for urinating on your half-witted point!

      • Cony Island Baby

        ‘Cyclops’ – does this mean your head really only had one eye?

        • Cyclops

          Great comeback. You really shot down my point.

          • Cony Island Baby

            And your point really was?

          • Cyclops

            Clearly too difficult for you to understand!

          • Cony Island Baby

            Nope – just that you never had one.

          • Cyclops

            That’s right. Keep telling yourself that.

          • Cony Island Baby

            Bath & shave eh – what a stand out, profound, important, earth shaking point you made. Nope – no point were you making and no point is there either to you at all.

          • Cyclops

            That’s right. You couldn’t understand the point – couldn’t even see it in fact. Mopping toilets is about all you’re fit for – but I’m sure you do a fine job of it!

          • Cony Island Baby

            You made no point at all and have no point at all – what’s to understand? What’s to see? Nope – nothing to see here. Just some stupid dimwit who thinks comments about a bath and shave are somehow constitutive of a debate about the state of politics.

          • Cyclops

            Take some nightclasses. Even a slight improvement in your basic literacy will open doors of understanding for you that the rest of us sometimes take for granted!

          • Cony Island Baby

            My literary skill and command of grammar is fine and dandy thank you very much. Whatever you take for granted, you do so because you lake the critical skill and willingness to push yourself further. As Foucault says, self-creation is a work of art. But you my friend think malignant narcissistic comments about a bath and shave, which you then compound with talk of mopping toilets, somehow make a point worth reading. What more can I say? Where is the artistry in your thinking? Witless. Imbecile. Cyclops!

          • Cyclops

            Keep walking, Jackass. One day you’ll find someone dumb enough to take you seriously…

          • Cony Island Baby

            Oh dear. You lose. You always lose! Is that the best you can really do? Is it that your limit? Okie dokies. I walk into the sunset a free-thinking individual. You stay in the heard with the other animals. Bath, shave, toilets, Jackass… oh dear oh dear oh dear.

          • Cyclops

            Bye bye, Jackass. You lose. Yet again.

          • Cony Island Baby

            What? Your still here?? I thought you told me to keep walking??? And then you come back again????There is a word for people who have to have the last word – narcissist. It is a very unhealthy trait exhibited by people who are very week. What else is there to say, you have no artistry of thought and nothing of worth to say – to anybody, ever. If you were in an Indiana Jones Movie it would be called ‘Indiana Jones and the Skulls of Numbness’! Get back in your cage, in the zoo that you belong in – you pitiful moron.

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ”

            What a half-wit. You just don’t get irony or hypocrisy, do you?

            Never mind, little puppet. Keep dancing to my tune!

          • Cony Island Baby

            You SAID Bye bye.. and you come back again …and again. What kind of mental health issues do you have? Oh my goodness what a goon you are. How can I dance to your tune when you have no tune at all to dance to? Any half-wit is twice as smart as you! You aren’t even a ‘quarter-wit.’ Not even one percent of one wit do you have.

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ”
            – Cony Island Baby

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ” – Cony Island Baby

          • Cony Island Baby

            And you would know all about that, beards, shave, toilet mops – total, complete, utter numbskull goon that you clearly are.

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ” – Cony Island Baby

          • Cony Island Baby

            Oh dear the numbskull goon-beast who thinks comments about a bath and shave are somehow pertinent to politics returns. Go on – do it again a third time. Reveal fully your utter lack of creativity. Embrace your lack of wit, look at it and embody it until you have absorbed it fully. And then go suck on an exhaust pipe out of complete despair at the brainless, witless moron goon-beast that you are.

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ” – Cony Island Baby

          • Cony Island Baby

            Now DO IT!

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ” – Cony Island Baby

          • Cony Island Baby

            You obviously haven’t yet fully embodied the numbskull pig-sex craving (saw that post – oh my god!!!!!) racist (saw those posts too) goon-beast that you are. I’ll give you time. One year tops before you go and hang yourself or have a debilitating mental break down (assuming you haven’t had one or more of those in the past already).

          • Cyclops

            “There is a name for people who need the last word – it is ‘narcissist.’ ” – Cony Island Baby

      • richbpink

        Reading too many tabloids me thinks lol!

      • Seax

        So why did the Tories vote for IDS as leader? Why is he still in a senior position? Should he resign in your opinion?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Duncan_Smith

        • Cyclops

          What grades did he get at A-Level? But I agree, even muppets like Ed Miliband with mediocre 2.2s (despite the advantages that come with being a millionaire) get elected at leaders of political parties. Bizarre!

        • John P Hughes

          Defending Jeremy Corbyn’s poor educational level by referring to Ian Duncan Smith is bizarre. IDS was dumped by the Conservatives because he was judged not good enough or able enough to lead the party. On that basis JC should be removed soon.

    • Adam

      Because his policies are ridiculous and don’t appeal to most British voters.
      Quite simple really.

      • Mara Naile-Akim

        like railway nationalisation? Building housing? Opposing austerity?

        • The Wiganer

          Like being pro-IRA, pro-Iran, pro-Russia. Like nationalising banks, rent controls, wage caps and brutal tax rises. Like unlimited immigration, substantial benefit increases and people’s quantitive easing.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            pretty sure the population would be supportive of rent control. And he wants tax rises and wage caps for the super-rich and corporations. As for Iran and Russia… most people don’t care. Cameron is pro-China, pro-Saudi Arabia, so that’s on a equal level of morality (or lack of). Never hurt him. People’s QE is also not an unpopular idea as it will create jobs. Benefits will actually be slashed long-term: if housing is built en masse the housing benefit bill will plummet.

          • Seax

            Much of what you say here is regurgitated propaganda from the natural successors of Pravda.

          • red2black

            So still not much different from the Conservatives.

        • Desperate Dan’s Porridge

          Railway nationalisation and opposing austerity are economically illiterate.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            is that whya few dozen leading economists backed JC?

          • Seax

            Why?

    • Peter Wass

      None of that, just that he’s an unmitigated cretin.

      • BTejon

        He hugs IRA leaders, hangs round with holocaust deniers, thinks communism is a great system. And his cronyism is so blatant.

  • rtj1211

    Interesting that the New Statesman has an absolutely open call to putsch from the PLP…….written by a former advisor to Harold Wilson…..

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      let them try. See how many people vote Labour again.

  • norm

    wow the death of the labour party

    • richbpink

      Rumours of Labours death have been greatly exaggerated lol!

  • davidblameron

    Jeremy Corbyn will survive because nobody will challenge him before the 2020 Election.

    • Tamerlane

      Let’s hope so.

  • Morris Jasper

    To paraphrase Cameron; the Labour Party is not Britain, subsequently, all of this, is of little relevance. Relatedly, an Interesting slip up by John McDonnell today on The World at One, where, by way of justifying his poor grasp of, just about everything, he made the claim, “we’ve [only] been in power now for three months”, I though this quite revealing, in the sense that he sees the far lefts’ control of Labour as somehow constituting “being in power’ in contrast with, say, an actual Labour government.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      if it’s of so little relevance… why is there such intense media scrutiny? What are they afraid of?

      • Morris Jasper

        There is ” intense media scrutiny” because it is an unusual & ongoing carnivalesque spectacle, but this does not entail any relevance, let alone fear.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          if you look at what actually happens, what’s so unusual? Somewhat inexperienced opposition and slightly eccentric leader gets elected and tries to rally the party round to his point of view. His supporters in the grassroots rally round him. He has a number of proposals, some popular, some less so, and appeals to the more traditional part of his party’s support, angering the modernisers tending towards the centre. It’s about as commonplace and mundane as it comes.

          what makes it a ‘spectacle’ is the media. You can hardly get an accurate, in-context JC quote from any mainstream media source. Everything is spun out of control, anybody with an axe to grind gets massive amounts of media exposure and the whole thing is given the feel of a clown show.

          • Morris Jasper

            You have described the landscape, just so.

          • Seax

            I think you have it right but you have also been propagandised by the idea that the Labour righties are ‘in the centre’ or are ‘modernisers’.

            Much of what the ‘One Party’ want is a return to insecure lives for the poor (that’s you and me folks).

        • Seax

          Did you miss the DM article claiming that Cameron was afraid that his kids would not be able to get on the housing ladder?

          ‘You couldn’t make it up’ but the righties ignore comments like this.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            tbh I don’t see why anybody under 35 would ever vote Tory

          • Seax

            They relied on the grey (Boomer) vote and the associated policies, from all parties, that would turn off the young.

            The righties and not spotted that the Boomers are dying out and the disgruntled young are a growing force.

          • grimm

            By 2020 the hopeless ninnies attending our Universities will be out there in the wider world spreading their neo-puritan influence. These twerps, whose main ability is to police the world for any tiny indication of political incorrectness, label it a phobia and condemn it as a social disease in need of eradication, will vastly swell the ranks of Corbyn’s supporters. We are witnessing the birth of a political party just for the ever-present petty socialists. The right are in for a nasty shock.

          • Seax

            …best not use their services then. You might be able to get your mate in the pub to operate on you when you need a lifesaving operation rather than a, pfft, graduate.

          • Mary Ann

            We are not dying out yet give us another ten or fifteen years.

          • DWWolds

            Remember the old saying: Anyone under 20 who doesn’t vote socialist hasn’t got a heart. Anyone over 40 who does hasn’t got a brain.”

          • Seax

            Strangely, I started out as a Tory. However, when you suffer your viewpoint changes. There will be oh so many more like me as the full force of Boomsterity hits the current Tory voters who think the rich are their mates. It will be interesting to watch.

            I think that many people do not grow out of the selfish greed of a child. Those are the ones that vote Tory.

            In addition, there are papers that suggest that rightwing people lave lower average IQs and a lack of compassion. I can understand that.

          • Mary Ann

            So everyone over 40 has to be selfish?

      • jennybloggs

        It draws attention away from the government.

  • TheLawMap

    Shock horror, a good honest man is leading the labour party, a man who has not voted to kill people, a man who has not cheated on expenses, a man who is not propped up by arms dealers and bankers. Of course the right wing media is going to be championing any old incompetent former labour shadow cabinet member as being influential 😉

    • Cony Island Baby

      Bang on!

    • Andrew McCann

      Just a man who regularly kept company with IRA apologists as the terror group was killing British citizens and soldiers.

      Give me a few expenses cheats any day.

      • Seax

        The Tories did the same. Only they did it in secret.

    • Ivan Ewan

      Just a friend of Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA, who fired a front-bencher for daring to opine that not all terrorism is our fault.

      What a lovely lovely man.

  • Cony Island Baby

    Labour failed to land a glove on the government over the floods – nope! Cameron-Pig Face reprehensibly, satanically, turned the question about flood defenses in Leeds onto questions about the Shadow Cabinet reshuffle. Not only does he refuse to answer questions he is a thug, bully, pig-face, nasty, odious, disgusting, rancid, scaly slice of dung! He is laughing at the people caught up in the floods. What is more he is laughing at all you ‘plebs’ that support the Tories. Unless you are actually in the Royal bloodline in David Cameron’s worldview, unless you are part of the 0.000000001% of the country born fabulously rich, you are and always will be, a ‘pleb’ to him. Think about who it is you so slavishly worship! He is NOT on your side!

    • Morris Jasper

      So.., shall I put you down as a maybe?

    • Andy P

      Power to the sheeple!!!

      • Cony Island Baby

        The sheeple already follow those with power – Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Rothschilds, the Royal Family – don’t you know your place?

        • Morris Jasper

          That was it, Tinfoil! thx for reminding me.

        • richbpink

          I think he was referring to the propaganda article itself not Corbyn.

    • Tamerlane

      Still didn’t land a glove on him though did they? That’s the point. Cameron might have been cr@p but he got away with it.

      • Cony Island Baby

        No he wasn’t (cr@p). He was satanic. Don’t you know the Bloodline that he comes from?

    • evad666

      Carlisle has gone Independent I see with a Vote of confidence like that?

    • DWWolds

      So full of charm aren’t you?

      • Cony Island Baby

        One finds it hard to be so full of charm when Cameron-Pig Face is so full of smarm. Know your place – he DOESN’T care about YOU!

    • Mary Ann

      Too true.

    • PaD

      wow an excerpt from Pulp Fiction…well remembered.

  • Tamerlane

    The gift that keeps on giving! Yummy Yummy delicious. Thank you Labour Party!

  • richbpink

    Full of the usual Establishment catch phrases Propaganda and lies thank goodness we will be so fed up with this terrible journalism even the Tories will be voting for Corbyn by 2020 the British do love the underdog 😉

  • Austin Phillip

    Let Me See IF I Have This Correct

    The Spectator Is Partly Owned By Andrew Neil

    Andrew Neil Is The Man ..That Devoted Almost All His Entire Adult Life

    Helping Rupert Murdoch Corrupt British Democracy

    AND You Want The Left To Take Moral / Political Guidance From You ?

    >..

    Is This A Comic Book ?

    • PaD

      oh well back to the Morning Star then…

  • John P Hughes

    Jeremy Corbyn is one of the least-well-educated MPs in the Commons. This may help to explain his attitudes.

    Of his predecessors from 1945 onwards, only Jim Callaghan (born 1912) did not have a degree – in 1930 he qualified for entry but did not have the money to attend university. All other Labour leaders have had first degrees at major universities (Attlee, Gaitskell, Wilson, Foot, Blair and Miliband at Oxford; Kinnock at Cardiff; Smith at Glasgow; Brown at Edinburgh).

    Jeremy Corbyn obtained 2 ‘Es’ at A-level, after a time started a degree in Trade Union Studies (!) at North London Polytechnic, and dropped out of that course after one year. So his level of education may be the poorest of anyone in the Commons. Almost every MP in recent intakes has a degree.

    When Jeremy Corbyn’s wife insisted on sending their eldest son to a good school, Queen Elizabeth’s School Barnet, he wanted their son to attend a local comprehensive. The boy went to QE Barnet and he split up with her. (Whether Corbyn’s second and third sons followed the first to QE Barnet the press seems unsure about.)

    A good education doesn’t appear to be something that Corbyn either prides himself on having had or was particularly interested in obtaining for his children. This would indicate that he is not someone who should lead a major political party in a country which possesses some of the world’s top universities.

    • Seax

      What an odd conclusion.

      Why only a degree? It is not the top qualification in this country. Does this suggest that only those with PhDs should be political leaders?

      In addition, very, very few have science degrees. Is that right? Some might say that PPE or history is an easy option for those that cannot do the ‘hard subjects’. Should we only allow scientists and engineers lead parties?

      And what about IQ? Should only Mensa members be allowed to lead political parties? When will we get formal IQ tests for MP applicants?

      • Seax

        IDS and qualifications? He was the Leader of the Tories

        “According to the BBC, Duncan Smith’s biography on the Conservative Party website and his entry in Who’s Who originally stated that he had studied at the University of Perugia in Italy. A BBC investigation in 2002 found this statement to be untrue. In response to the BBC story, Duncan Smith’s office stated that he had in fact attended the Università per Stranieri, a different institution in Perugia, for a year. He did not complete his course of study, sit exams, or gain any qualifications there. Duncan Smith’s biography, on the Conservative Party website, also stated that he was “educated at Dunchurch College of Management” but his office later confirmed that he did not gain any qualifications there either, that he completed six separate courses lasting a few days each, adding up to about a month in total. Dunchurch was the former staff college for GEC Marconi, for whom Duncan Smith worked in the 1980s”.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Duncan_Smith

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          And let’s mention John Major’s educational qualifications now.

          GCSE in woodwork anyone?

          • red2black

            It worked on Edwina Curry.

          • Morris Jasper

            To be fair, I think Edwina did all the woodworking there.

          • red2black

            Tee hee.

          • Seax

            Nigel Farage?

            “Farage was educated at Dulwich College, a public school in south London,and in his autobiography he pays tribute to the careers advice he received there from England Test cricketer John Dewes, “who must have spotted that I was quite ballsy, probably good on a platform, unafraid of the limelight, a bit noisy and good at selling things”. On leaving school in 1982, he decided not to go to university, but to work in the City, trading commodities at the London Metal Exchange”.

            So no degree there either.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Farage

          • PaD

            a degree..no….but Farage is the best politician in the UK by a long stretch

          • SkyBluePM

            AGAIN – how does this prove the argument that people without a degree can make a good PM?

            John major and Nigel Farage – are these role models for good leaders? Or utterly DISPROVING the entire argument!

          • Seax

            and IDS?

          • SkyBluePM

            And he was an AWFUL PM – hardly proving your case is it!

      • John P Hughes

        Every Labour Party leader since 1945 has had a degree, except for James Callaghan (who passed exams sufficient for Oxford entrance, but could not afford university in 1930) – until Jeremy Corbyn. It is surprising that Labour supporters actually think that someone who got just two ‘E’s at A-level and dropped out of even a low-quality type of degree course is suitable to lead the country.

        There is certainly criticism to be made of too many politicians taking the PPE Degree from Oxford (it does not exist in any other university). Nick Cohen set out who has one and why it is a problem, in an excellent article in the Spectator in Sept 2014. But most Labour Leaders have not graduated in PPE. They held other degrees, including Attlee, Smith, Blair and Brown.

        The only Prime Minister to have held a science degree is Margaret Thatcher who read chemistry and was more proud of being the first PM to have a science degree than of being the first woman PM (several writers have recorded this). Her exacting approach to government and insistence on accurate briefings and evidence stemmed in part from her scientific education.

        Ian Duncan-Smith had no degree, though he passed RMA Sandhurst which is an equivalent. He was criticised as not-well-enough educated, probably correctly. John Major is the only Conservative PM since Churchill not to have a degree and similar criticism was made of him. However he passed banking exams which puts him on a similar educational level to James Callaghan (passed civil service exams in 1930).

        Jeremy Corbyn got just two ‘E’ grades at A-level and failed to complete even his weak degree in ‘Trade Union Studies’ and North London Polytechnic in the early 1970s (a course which sounds a precursor to the noddy subjects in some modern establishments). The belief expressed here that Corbyn is nevertheless well-educated enough to be a political leader suggests that Labour members no longer want someone who has any skill or ability.

        • jennybloggs

          Blair and Thatcher did not do well at uni. A third and lower second if I remember correctly. Not good enough to go far in either the law or science but good enough for Parliament.

          • John P Hughes

            Both Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair obtained second class honours degrees at Oxford. Check wikipedia entries. MT graduated in Chemistry (a four year degree) in 1947; Blair in Jurisprudence in 1975. As stated in wikipedia, Oxford University “until the late 1970s, did not distinguish between upper and lower second-class honours degrees.” Oxford awarded Fourth Class degrees in MT’s day, so 2nds were what 2.1s are today. In effect both Thatcher and Blair obtained the equivalent of 2:1 degrees.
            Margaret Thatcher then worked under the great research chemist Dorothy Hodgkin and would have ‘gone far’ had she not changed to law and then politics.

      • SkyBluePM

        NO, but Corbyn is running on a “man of the people” lie! There is NOTHING in his background that comes close to consider him of the people!

        After failing uni, he went on a 2 yr gap year (as ALL working class people can afford!), He then went to become a union rep in an industry he had NEVER worked in!

        Sure this in itself doesn’t mean much, unless of course you try and imply you are working class and attack DC for privilege #corbynisahypocrite!

    • duder Pierloot

      those ‘upperclass’ corporate lackeys grasping at straws

    • DWWolds

      The ability to pass exams and gain degrees does not necessarily imply either intelligence or wisdom. I have interviewed a good many people with MBAs and PhDs who were virtually unemployable.

      • Seax

        And some just learn by rote.

    • Teddy

      What an outdated and pathetic view of the education system you have?
      It doesn’t show Jeremy Corbyn is uncommitted to education, it shows that his commitment to equality of opportunity even extends to his family.
      This is basically a pretty poor attempt to villiainize Corbyn even further by saying he doesn’t care about his own kids.
      And you question the relevance of his Degree? – Well George Osbournes degree is in modern history which you can hardly say trains you up to run an economy, but you don’t hear people mentioning that….

      • PaD

        corbyn isnt uncommitted to education…he just wasnt committed to his own

        • SkyBluePM

          And your EVIDENCE he is committed to education? His ONLY talk has been about trident!

          • Stephen Evett

            You keep saying this but its just not true. No matter how much you use CAPITAL LETTERS.

      • SkyBluePM

        No it doesn’t It shows he was incapable of being able to get a degree and resents those that do!

        • Seax

          IDS?

        • Teddy

          Incapable of getting a degree? There are so many other reasons someone may decide to drop out other than that they were too stupid to pass. Maybe trade union studies was actually as boring as it sounds so he decided to drop out?
          I quite like the fact that he doesn’t have a degree because it gives hope to those who may not have the best educational background but still could be very capable politicians.
          And I know you may think that may sound stupid because degrees are considered a right of passage into almost all professions now a days, but so many MP’s degrees are completely irrelavent to what they do so you have to wonder if there is much point in them at all…

          • John P Hughes

            Very few MPs of any party do not have a degree today One who does not is Mike Penning, Conservative, Hemel Hempstead, Minister of State at the Home Office below Theresa May. His wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Penning
            shows that he had careers in the Army and the Fire Service before becoming an MP. So he has a ‘university of life’ education. – something much better than Jeremry Corbyn has received through his narrow world of left-wing activism. Burt MPs like Penning are rather rare, regrettably.

  • evad666

    Jeremy Corbyn is untouchable now is that because he is operating CAGED in a Safe Space?

  • Mara Naile-Akim

    now isn’t that interesting

    BBC colluded with Stephen Doughty to time his resignation with maximum political impact

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/3zwl4b/bbc_admits_to_arranging_on_air_resignation_of_mp/

    independent broadcaster my behind

    • DWWolds

      Makes a change from the BBC’s usual anti-Tory basis.

      • Seax

        Since the Tories gripped the BBC’s funding and squeeeezed, the latter have got into line with the rest of the rightwing press.

        • Mary Ann

          The Tories don’t want a neutral press, and they are happy to throw the baby out with the bath water.

    • SkyBluePM

      No they didn’t!

  • Roger Wilco

    By ‘Labour moderates’ you mean feverishly right wing, Blairite warmongering arseholes, yeah?

    • Ivan Ewan

      More Laszlo Rajik crud. It doesn’t work when you describe your own sleazy Fabian comrades as hard-right.

      You’re just having a good old Stalinist w**k, be good enough to admit that.

    • Mrs Crewe

      Shows the level of political debate of the Corbynites as they worship at the alter of their misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic, terror supporting excuse for a leader. (And all said without resorting to childish swearing to seem important.)

      • Seax

        You missed out that he eats babies.

        • SkyBluePM

          No – you just keep saying that about the Tories – because you CANNOT provide a decent argument why ANYONE could possibly vote for your insane politics!

          • Seax

            Say what about the Tories?

            People should vote for Labour because the Tories support Boomsterity.

      • SkyBluePM

        Yes apparently claiming terrorists are responsible for their own actions is deemd to be disloyal now!

    • Daidragon

      No. Outside Londinistan he is a joke. Amongst the over 30’s he is a joke. The heartlands know he’s unelectable. The party is in the grip of juvenile, identity politics loony lefties. Unfortunately for us all it will take being smashed by the Tories again for that reality to sink in. It’s an eighties reboot.

      • Roger Wilco

        “The party is in the grip of juvenile, identity politics loony lefties”

        Better that than messianic war criminals like their old masters.

        • SkyBluePM

          Rwally? Corbyn is an apologist for terrorist of all kinds! Or are you forgetting he invited KNOWN terrorists to parliament within days of the brighton bombings?

          Corbyn is a clear and present danger to the UK!

          • Seax

            Corbyn had invited a group of ex-prisoners to the HoC to discuss prison conditions and how to re-integrate ex-prisoners back into society.

            This had been organised way before the Brighton bombing.

            Two of this group of ex-prisoners were ex-IRA apparently. One was a woman.

            If they were a threat, why did HMP let them out of prison?

            As usual, the right spin such an event into ‘supporting terrorism’. Some ‘pliable’ people believe what they are fed.

      • Jaria1

        The Tories must be very tempted to let Scotland go its own way. Much as I would dislike to see the Union split up if it looked like Corbyn and his cult were likely to win Scotland’s independence might be a price worth paying

        • SkyBluePM

          For all her whinging, Sturgeon KNOWS, that if they split Scotland would suffer years of depression! She has run the country into the ground! The NHS is failing significantly, as is the education system! By insisting on no tuition fees, it has allowed richer families to save money, but poorer families can no longer afford to rent near the universities, because rents have gone up because the rich kids can afford to pay higher rents! This the TRUTH, is that the SNP have actually made it more difficult for kids from poor backgrounds to go to university!

          And her entire plan was based on the oil price being at least 3x what it actually is! And with the end of the Barnett formula, all that subsidy would disappear as well!

          Why do you think she has put on hold ANY talk of a referendum?

          England WOULD indeed be better off financially, however unfortunately the vast majority of the people who would be affected by a split ( the rest of the UK) were denied a vote! SO a country of 60 – 70 million nearly had it’s future decided by around 2 million! HARDLY democratic!

          • Jaria1

            The only thing these politicians want is power once they have it they have achieved their ambition.
            We can’t have a country that represents such a small proportion of the U.K. wield as much power as SNP do in parliament . It would take too much of a swing towards them or Labour to really put the cat amongst the pigeons . I don’t disagree with you but feel now is the time to curb their powers in Westminister especially on matters pertaining to The rest of the Union as as things are the people of Scotland would be mad to separate their country from Britain.

    • Latimer Alder

      The guys who won three general elections in a row and were in power for 13 years by the popular democratic will of the people?

      Those guys?

      • mervynhyde

        You mean this GUY!

        Gordon Brown’s 2006 Mansion House speech, where he was boasting to the worlds Bankers and Business, that he had liberalised the financial sector all just before the Bankers Crash.

        This is an extract from that speech:

        I am grateful to many of you here tonight, including the Lord Mayor, who has agreed to serve on the new City advisory group.

        Ed Balls, our new City Minister, will work with you to develop publish and then promote a long term strategy for the development of London’s financial services and promoting our unique advantages and assets. We will set a clear ambition to make Britain the location of choice for headquarters and services, including R&D, for even more of the world’s leading companies.

        And just as two years ago we promoted the action plan for liberalising financial services across Europe, I can tell you that the Treasury is now working with Charles McCreevy and with you to ensure that the forthcoming European financial services white paper signals a new wave of liberalisation.

        This is the speech in full: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2006/jun/22/politics.economicpolicy
        Are you beginning to get an idea why there are those on the left in the party that can’t exactly rejoice in their leadership, quite the same way that you do.
        I have heaps more to put your way if you were interested, on how that same leadership was busy privatising our health service, asset stripping, how Brown has nearly bankrupted hospitals with his Tory PFI agreements. The list goes on, but you don’t want to hear it do you.

        • SkyBluePM

          Tory PFI agreements? I think you will find it was LABOUR who went all out on those disgusting things!

          • Seax

            New Labour.

            Have the Tories ended the PFI’s?

        • Latimer Alder

          When the current leadership has won 3 democratic popular general elections in a row and been in power for 13 years, come back and tell me about it.

          But until then , they are sacrificing any chance of labour ever being in power again on the altar of their own sanctimonious moral purity.

          Exactly as Mr Corbyn did in his 32 years as a Parliamentary nonentity.

          Political reminder…if you aren’t in power, you can’t achieve very much.

          • mervynhyde

            Do you really believe what you write? To put it into plain language for you, NEW LABOUR lost five million voters over the period you are talking about,
            The Tories gained office with something like 24% of the eligible voting public, are you really telling us that NEW LABOUR that lost the last two elections are the only ones able to win the next.
            Didn’t you read Gordon Brown’s speech, did you remember what happened after the referendum in Scotland when Brown promised he had assurances from the Tories that they would fully comply with devomax, then they reneged on it after achieving their aim, can you possibly imagine why we lost all that support in Scotland?

          • Latimer Alder

            Don’t know, don’t care what labour are up to. The longer (forever is fine with me) they are out of power the better.

            But as an interested observer (I love a good laugh watching slapstick and pratfalls), I merely note that the guys that are so derided actually had the knack of collecting democratic votes from the public.

            There is no evidence that the Corbynistas can do the same.

            But hey, if you want to have a civil war, that’s OK with me too. Go ahead. I like popcorn.

            Toodle pip

          • mervynhyde

            Isn’t that the point about you people on the right of politics, you care about nothing except the furtherance of your own personal objectives, the trouble is your ignorance and total lack of understanding about anything puts even yourselves at a disadvantage, and you don’t even know it.

          • Latimer Alder

            Since your post is free of any content beyond personal abuse, I’ll not bother to respond further.

          • mervynhyde

            Classic lunatic right-wing response, abuse others and claim victim when treated in kind. You have no facts worth listening to or reading anyway, so it’s no loss to me.

          • Latimer Alder

            Ah bless. Hope you’re enjoying being back in the class war 70s, Wolfie!

            Toodle ever so pip, old bean.

        • Seax

          The Tories complained that the liberalisation had not gone far enough. They did their usual ‘red tape’ speech.

          Don’t forget Thatcher started the City’s rampant greed with the Big Bang… Greed is Good, apparently.

    • boiledcabbage

      As if the current Labour leaders didnt have any capacity for, um…..holes? Just wait

    • Jaria1

      Blair is unpopular with you lot as he didn’t repeal the Industrial relations acts so they couldn’t continue disrupting the country. It was the US.that called the shots on Gulf war 2 and as usual Britain followed loyally along.

    • PaD

      Rotherham enabling arse,h…les the lot of you

    • SkyBluePM

      GROW UP YOU PETULANT CHILD

  • geoff

    I disagree with Forsyth. Those Shadow ministers who showed solidarity with Dugher, are not cowed by Corbyn. They are just hypocrites whose only principle is to have a seat at the shadow cabinet. All politicians are the same, thinking only about themselves.

  • PAUL FISHER

    Sensible people in all parties know that the current political situation is damaging, potentially dangerous. As JF alludes, we have a hubristic government that is currently getting away with murder and an opposition that simply doesn’t oppose. We have a pretty ordinary PM who is already looking at his own (no doubt suitably wallet enhancing) exit, half-heartedly presiding over the biggest decision this country has faced in decades. Then there is a Chancellor who at least looks like he has a vision but is badly let down by a tendency to place short term political gain over longer term national benefit.It is very depressing. I can see no way out for the centre left other than the creation of a new party.

    • Daidragon

      I despise Corbyn but the centre left abandoning the party is unthinkable. Jezza will be crushed at the next GE and gone straight after. Labour MP’s just need to focus on their own constituencies for the next 4 yrs. Out of the ashes the process of renewal will begin. As you say the current govt are a shower. Luck only lasts so long.

      • Seax

        How are they ‘centre left’? They are Tories. All these people did for the last 30 years was agree with what the Tories were doing to us.

        That is why there was no opposition. They agreed.

        • Jaria1

          Your kidding

          • mervynhyde

            Thatcher deregulated the City and Banks under big bang, you already have evidence from me that Blair and Brown continued with that deregulation, are you just trying to kid us?

        • SkyBluePM

          No they didn’t! THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!

          YET AGAIN – Corbyn and his followers PROVING that they don’t just lie, they cannot help themselves!

          • Seax

            Your shouting does not make your words truth.

      • mervynhyde

        Could you list the reasons for despising Jeremy Corbyn, do you hate those on benefits that he is fighting for, do you understand that the Tories are dismantling the state as well as the NHS, do know why we are needlessly suffering from austerity and as Jeremy will rightly tell you, it is a policy choice not a necessity. When you have basic understanding macroeconomics, you might just know why Jeremy is ahead of the game and why people like you repeat like parrots instead of looking at the world you are living in. You are being lied to on a daily basis, and you believe every word of it.

        • Jaria1

          You’ve fallen for the PR. That’s been coming if their production line and are in no position to lecture anyone on the subject.

          • Seax

            Cameron was a PR man wasn’t he?

          • Jaria1

            Was I suggesting that team Corbyn were the only ones with a PR team? A PR team is vital these days as a good one can make you appear much better than you are.Corbyn has a good one

          • mervynhyde

            As you so keenly support the opinions of SkyBluePM and just repeat like a parrot what you hear and read in the Tory media, could you perhaps explain how money enters the economy, and why we can afford our public services, but are being lied to by the media and Neo-Liberal politicians of all persuasions?

          • Jaria1

            Rude argued and stupid post. Have no interest in entering a slanging match.
            The media lie in your opinion because they disagree with you.
            Suggest you watch more debates where all sides are represented.
            Andrew Neil’s programmes might help you

          • mervynhyde

            That doesn’t answer the questions I posed to you, Could you explain how money enters the economy?
            Why the media are lying to you when they say we can’t afford our public services?
            Why is it that Osborne talks of reducing the deficit, but has doubled the National debt since taking office, now standing at £1.5 trillion?
            I do listen to Tory Andrew Neil and he never asks those sorts of questions, I wonder why?

          • RobertRetyred

            But now, he is failing at that too.

        • SkyBluePM

          But he ISN’T fighting for them! His ONLY fight is trident! Where is your evidence the Tories are dismantling the NHS? Funding is INCREASING! It was LABOUR who crippled the NHS with PFI debt remember!

          “needlessly suffering austerity” Oh you mean the austerity brought in to pay off the debts caused by the banks failing thanks to LABOUR removing oversight on the banks you mean?

          “When you have basic understanding macroeconomics” You mean that understanding you and Corbyn CLEARLY do NOT have! Even the advisor for Corbyn states how Corbyn wants to introduce QE is WRONG!

          Corbyn is the ONLY politician who has not just been PROVEN to lie, but has been PROVEN to lie consistently!

          Did he NOT say he would allow dissent amongst his shadow cabinet?
          Did he NOT say he would apologise for Iraq?
          Did he NOT say he would apply a new kinder politics?

          ALL of these he has LIED about – thus can be PROVEN to be a liar!

          And yet you CLAIM he is honest ! HILARIOUS DELUSION!

          • Seax

            You do realise that you are helping people to make their minds up to support Labour, don’t you?

          • Gary Rudley

            Your three claims are not evidence that Corbyn has been proven to Lie.

            1st he has and is allowing different opinions and even allowed a free vote on Syria. Cabinet reshuffles happen all the time and this was a small one. No mention however of the 3 that Cameron got rid of for dissenting?

            2nd He actually said he would “apologise to the public for the “deception” in the lead up to the 2003 invasion and to the Iraqi people for their suffering, which “we have helped cause”. Hopefully he wont because Blair should aplogise for that but either way he needs to wait for the outcome of the Chilcot report, which he has so far done.

            3rd He has introduced a kinder politics or at least is still trying to. You dont see Corbyn trying to be a Comedian like Cameron does, or making personal attacks like Cameron does.

            Cameron even has to have a stooge bring up Shakespear in the commons just so he can make an elaborate smear on the Labour party rather than doing his job and dealing with the important issues which is what Corbyn tries to do amid the animalistic behavior of the Tories laughing, hooting, cat calling, they are absolute trash.

      • PaD

        Their constituencies…like Rotherham Bradford Rochdale?

      • SkyBluePM

        Will he? He is already positioning himself to be in a position of dictator for life! He has no intention of resigning even if humiliated at the polls! And if he succeeds in scaring off all the moderates who will be left to put a motion of no confidence forward?

        • jennybloggs

          Calm down dear. In Mr Corbyn’s case a ‘dictator for life’ means anything between 5 and 10 years. No more. Corbyn is older, much older, than the average MP.

      • Jaria1

        Real Labour supporters just cannot afford to sit back and watch these far left politicians further entrench them selves into a party that traditionally has an important role to play in our democracy.

      • John P Hughes

        “Jezza will be crushed at the next GE and gone straight after.” Yes. This is the most realistic outcome. Leaders of the Opposition nowaday who lose an election resign straight away and make way for someone new. Examples – William Hague in 2001, Michael Howard in 2005, Ed Miliband in 2015. Neil Kinnock was able to continue after losing the 1987 election but that was another time and it was thought he would win the next time – which indeed nearly happened in 1992. (And in 1987, Labour had just come out of the awful period of the Foot/Benn left-wing era and there was no appetite to change the Leader.)

    • Mary Ann

      What a good idea, split the Labour vote and have nothing but Tory governments for the next 30 years. ugg

      • Jaria1

        The Labour vote is already split. If Labour want to win in 2020 they must first get an electable team to represent them.

        • SkyBluePM

          Even if the labour vote was united, it STILL wouldn’t win, as it needs tories to decide to vote for them! Can ANYONE honestly see tories voting for the terrorist sympathiser?

        • Seax

          Electable by whom? The same rightwing marginal voters as the Tories woo?

          • Jaria1

            If you compare them to those you support everyone is right wing. It’s just the usual left wing slur tactics the left wing throw at people that don’t agree with them

      • SkyBluePM

        Better than a Labour government LITERALLY selling off the family silver (or gold)!

      • Jaria1

        You need to talk to those responsible for the split

    • mervynhyde

      Where do you think a centre left is, do you know anything about Labour’s history, how do you think the NHS came in to being?
      Nye Bevan said there will only be an NHS as long as folk are prepared to fight for it, that is the sort of thing people on the left are doing, are you fighting to save the NHS. Or is that too radical for you?

      • Jaria1

        Well Brown was Labour and by using PFI funding is responsible for the trusts going bust despite extra funding every year

        • Seax

          New Labour.

          • Jaria1

            You mean those swines that didn’t repeal the industrial relations laws?

      • PaD

        People on the left were in charge in Rotherham Bradford Rochdale Birmingham Tower Hamlets..AD NAUSEUM

      • SkyBluePM

        But they AREN’T fighting for the NHS! They are fighting to get rid of the moderates and Trident! NHS hasn’t been mentioned ONCE by comrade Corbyn since the £3 farce!

        How are you NOT getting this? Corbyn doesn’t give a FIG about the people of this country! His ONLY concern is getting rid of Trident!

        • Seax

          This is opinion not Truth.

    • Jaria1

      The electorate doesn’t seem to agree with you and now Labour offer people who put their brand of politics as more important than the interests of the country . We are lucky to have what we have despite Cameron’s shortcomings.

  • Ivan Ewan

    Corbyn purges as purgers do. It’s not surprising, and the response from the Labour MPs as they’ve been put one by one up against the wall, has really been hopelessly pathetic. What can they do now? Form a new party, called We Used To Be Lab Please Vote For Us Instead?

  • Steve Alan

    t clear that the Labour MPs have to organise to stop Corbyn before
    his fellow travellers dismantle everything that could make Labour’s
    front bench effective. Burnham should think again about being part of
    this charade. The Corbyn McDonnell clique will freeze out anyone who is
    not a signed up fellow traveller. Its about time the parliamentary
    Labour party stood up to Jeremy’s extreme makeover of the Labour Party.
    Corbyn who was voted in
    with 121,000 (49% ) of full party members, obviously has grass roots
    support but the Labour party is not yet run by a dictatorship, and it
    needs to be remembered that MPs represent not just Labour party members
    but the 9 million poeple who voted Labour at the last election. It
    should also be remembered that Clement Attlee mostly acted as a chairman

    in the great 1945 Labour Governement. Letting ministers deliver the
    results, like the helth service that we still cherish today. In this
    light it looks like jeremy Corbyn is not practicing the new politics
    but instead removing anyone who dissents from the view of the great leader (this from
    the man who rebelled agaist the party leadership hundreds of times). MPs
    have a duty to show this is not the view of PLP and act before its too
    late, by reinstating the rule by which the MPs elect the shadow cabinet.
    This is the only way to stop Labour from becoming unelectable and at the
    same time show the puplic another side of Labour showcasing the next
    generation of Labour leaders.

    • Jaria1

      Good post Steve Alan
      I’d like to add that if the moderates do succeed in getting rid of Corbyn and his dangerous clique who put their politics before the interests of the country they will have the gratitude of the nation which would make them very popular with the electorate.
      As an optimist what’s happening might just be what the Labour Party needed . Miliband and Browns front bench didn’t impress and a change was needed.

      • Steve Alan

        I agree but any challenge agaisnt the Corbynistas needs to be led by someone who is ready to battle. I never thought I would say this but Labour could do with Neal Kinnock back again. His famous Bournmouth speech of 1985 should be read by all Labour MPs to see where they are heading. They will need to act soon to save the Labour party from being totally obliterated at the next election.

        • Jaria1

          Yes Steve Alan I remember it well but suggest all the kudos he rightly earned by that speech were lost when he prematurely celebrated his victory with an embarrassed Roy Hattersley which I’m sure you will remember. I’d did quite like the bloke and he does deserve praise for sorting out the Labour Party .
          My main problem with Corbyn is what he’s hiding and even many of his supporters would be disappointed when he showed us his true agenda when voted in. I’m looking at the type of person he is appointing to important posts and who is really the inner circle. Little doubt McClusky is there ODonnell shows us he is a reasonable man until you examine him a bit more closely .

          • Steve Alan

            jaria1 The problem is these are the same faces who almost brought Labour to its knees in the 80s. they have not changed and nor has the nature of UK politics. that’s why only a broad church ether Tory or Labour can ever win and it’s a fact that the british people will not support extreme politicians. And before someone reading this moans again about Tony Blair he won three elections and had the PLP , conference and most important labour Voters behind him.

          • Jaria1

            That would bear out Blair and Cameron’s opinions which state that elections are won on the middle ground.
            As I keep on saying the Unions have declared Blair non personna grata as he would repeal the industrial relations acts and have spent their time accusing him of being a war monger. If people paused to think they would see like most British PMs he wanted to maintain what we like to call the most favoured nation status. Anyhow any warmongering if that’s the right word was down to thecYanks who called the tune.
            If they hadn’t shown their gratitude to Blair by chucking him out I doubt if Cameron would have won the 2010 election

          • Jaria1

            Would not repeal the industrial relations acts

  • SkyBluePM

    Well done Corbyn! You have shown the world a perfect example of a phyrric victory! Have you rested control of the labour party? Maybe. Have you cowed the moderates – they were spineless to begin with HARDLY an achievement! Will you be able to get rid of Trident – NOT A CHANCE!

    All you have done is GUARANTEE any undecided voters will avoid the current incarnation of the communist (sorry Labour) party like the plague!

    How are you NOT getting this? TO WIN ELECTIONS YOU WILL NEED TO WIN OVER VOTERS WHO VOTED TORY LAST TIME!

    Under this moribund MP, that will NEVER happen! This terrorist sympathiser has shown his TRUE colours! So much for the new “kinder” politics! So much for willing to have debate in the party! Even the incompetents he “promoted” don’t even think they should be where they are!

    It is HILARIOUS how his stasi supporters are consistently trying to make out he is this shining beacon of integrity! NEVER has a politician so BRAZENLY lied and deceived the british people!

    Remember how he protested so much about an oath of loyalty? He NEVER made a sound when he did it on going into parliament did he!

    HYPOCRITE DISHONEST, IMMORAL, TERRORIST sympathiser! And his stasi actually elieve ANYONE outside his inner circle would vote for him!

    HILARIOUS!

    • Seax

      IDS?
      Oldham.

    • Dorkins

      “TO WIN ELECTIONS YOU WILL NEED TO WIN OVER VOTERS WHO VOTED TORY LAST TIME!”

      Only 24% of UK adults voted Conservative in 2015, many of whom were comfortable older voters who, to be blunt, will be dead by 2020 and replaced by millions of priced out youngsters. Labour could win an election by trying to appeal to the other 76% of the population.

      • Seax

        Indeed. The young are a growing force.

        They have been hit hard by the neo liberals.

        • Jaria1

          Such as getting 500.000 jobless families find employment
          Fortunately the young mature and learn the error of their ways.

      • King Kibbutz

        Priced out of what?

        • Dorkins

          Homeownership, hence why the homeownership rate is falling by about 1% a year.

          • King Kibbutz

            It’s that old supply and demand thing. Import millions of people to compete for the same number of houses and hey, guess what happens to prices?

            One of the by-products of rubbing the right’s nose in multiculti spite.

          • Rhyfelwyr

            There are over a million empty houses in this country. Many in some of our most exclusive and overpopulated areas. Sorry to upset your rant and all that, but it’s not penniless immigrants competing for those empty multi-million pound houses in Mayfair now, is it?

          • King Kibbutz

            I do not rant. I relay facts that you find uncomfortable.
            It’s a very simple set up. There are a limited number of houses in the country. That number, even prior to mass immigration, was short of that required to meet demand.
            In the social sector, immigrants, some penniless, some very much not so, judging by the cars they drive, are straight to the top of council housing lists every time.
            In the private sector, up demand by increasing the number seeking a home, and the price goes up. On top of that, labour costs are forced down by the same iron law.
            The landlord class are laughing all the way to the bank and the sweet irony is that all of this was put in place by Blair, Brown and the gang.
            Gratefully inherited and developed by that other Blair: Cameron.

          • Rhyfelwyr

            There are over a million empty properties in the UK at current levels of demand.
            Which bit of this do you have trouble with?

          • PaD

            no it’s russian mafia and arab sheiks who are búying tem…and NO politician is brave enough to take them on…inc Corbyn and his bunch of chancers.

        • jennybloggs

          Buying a home, affordable rent, having children.

          • King Kibbutz

            Precisely. The thread did continue with Dorkins’ confirmation of same (notably, children were not mentioned)
            My retort was then to point out the reasons for said ‘pricing out’.
            Lost in the Spectator system, mysteriously.

      • JabbaPapa

        … and only 20% voted Labour.

        Your fantasy demographics, meanwhile, are worthless.

        • Dorkins

          It’s a fantasy to believe that in every 5 year Parliament millions of old people die and are replaced in the electorate by millions of younger voters?

          • JabbaPapa

            No, it’s a fantasy that these new voters will behave in accordance with your eccentric desires.

          • Dorkins

            The new voters can of course vote however they want, however it’s worth noting that they will on average be much poorer than the relatively comfortable older voters they are replacing due to the much higher housing costs they face compared to previous generations. Politicians can try to appeal to them by promising lower housing costs. Whether this will be enough to win their votes, well we will have to wait until a politician tries it to find out.

          • richbpink

            I posted the statistics above it is based on sound statistical evidence.

          • richbpink

            Around 500,000 people die in England each year, and it is predicted that this will rise to 590,000 within the next 20 years. Heart failure and stroke are the biggest killers. One in four people in the UK will die of cancer.

          • richbpink

            Might explain the massive decline in Tory membership

          • richbpink

            Conservative have the following results: 11,334,576.votes. Labour have the following results: 9,347,304 votes May election 2015 BBC news.

        • richbpink

          66% voted for left wing parties now they know voting for smaller parties just lets the Tories in its game over 😉

    • King Kibbutz

      ‘Wrested’.

    • mervynhyde

      If there is one thing that the Tories fall back on when they have lost the argument is smears and commie bashing:

      Well stuff this up your jumper because it shows the people of this country just who the traitors are, Tory plans drawn up by Nicholas Ridley in 1977 to subvert and blame the unions for the disruption deliberately caused by them and how they would denationalise those industries in the public sector.

      http://fc95d419f4478b3b6e5f-3f71d0fe2b653c4f00f32175760e96e7.r87.cf1.rackcdn.com/FABEA1F4BFA64CB398DFA20D8B8B6C98.pdf
      These are facts written by them, which utterly destroys their claims to work in the national interest, they deliberately lie to people, just like they lie about the country being broke and we can’t afford our public services. This is all fact not your lunatic opinion.

    • Brad Fuller

      Here, here sky!!

    • Rhyfelwyr

      ‘Phyrric’?

      Yes, I’m sure he has…

    • Gary Rudley

      An interesting statement. Whilst you may not agree with Corbyns policies or past actions, everything has been out in the open. Even down to meetings with Sinn Fein, all out in the open. Unlike the Tories who whilst repeating their mantra “We dont talk to terrorists” were in actual fact talking to terrorists behind closed doors for many years before Corbyn started to. So who is worse the man who is out in the open or the lying Govenment? But back to your comment “NEVER has a politician so BRAZENLY lied and deceived the british people!”if you were talking about Cameron I would agree, and I can provide many instances of proof of his lies and deceit. But you 1st, please point people in the direction of the evidence that you have where Corbyn has “BRAZENLY lied and deceived the british people!”

      • richbpink

        The conservatives just did a secret deal with Saudi Arabia to get them on the UN human rights council the biggest exporters of terrorism in the world are Dave’s best friend now!

    • richbpink

      Yes Americans were brainwashed for years that socialism was communism but now they are waking up and have a socialist as the front runner for the democrats they finally got wise to the lies and the illusion of two different parties so guess what they woke up 😉

  • Will Corrie

    I’m undecided whether I’m a Corbyn fan or not, though I’m disappointed by this reshuffle; I’d have hoped that he could have got the PLP pulling in the same direction, even if there are major differences on individual issues (a sort of broad church approach to leadership with an agreement that that’s the approach). What I do object to, however, is this article which seems to criticise Corbyn for…being a politician? Which party leaders don’t hold reshuffles? Moreover, don’t they all try to surround themselves with allies? The only thing that bothers me here is that I hoped Corbyn would be different…

    • Dorkins

      Blair spent two decades stuffing the PLP full of right wing MPs. If Corbyn wanted to keep a majority of the PLP happy he would just agree with everything Cameron says. Not sure what the point of the Labour party would be in that situation but according to the Blairites it’s what you have to do to be a “credible party of government”.

    • JabbaPapa

      I’m undecided whether I’m a Corbyn fan or not

      The fact that he’s an unelectable walking disaster zone doesn’t help ?

      What I do object to, however, is this article which seems to criticise Corbyn for…being a politician?

      It’s clear, implicitly, that what’s being criticised is the hypocrisy of a man claiming grassroots credentials, but seeking to impose his autocracy on the Party.

      • terryec

        The autocracy of Corby, are you joking? he is trying to break the stranglehold the Blairites had on the party taking away the members voice at conference and in decision making, he is actually bringing democracy back to the party which was stolen years ago, The right made a mistake allowing him to stand as leader as it was impossible without the backing of the PLP to get a left wing leader to stand, now he is leader we can look forward to some changes in the democratic process in the party and I am delighted at that.

        • JabbaPapa

          His Politburo is no doubt happy for your support.

          Keep the Red Flag flying, Comrade !!!

      • richbpink

        Yes like his 100 to one chance of winning the leadership election noticed how reality is quite different to the right wing media’s wishful thinking!

    • PaD

      I hoped Corbyn would be different..

      In the same way as Russians hoped Uncle Joe would be different

    • richbpink

      Well he is different he allows a range of opinion on his front benches and practices that rare thing called democracy !

  • OscarJones

    Only the Spectator could call right wing Blairites wedded to market economy policies that have repeatedly failed, moderates. It shows how far the pendulum has swung to the far right and as for opinion polls, although Labour lost the election the Tories are still have minimum popularity as their vote demonstrates. Those foaming at the mouth about Jeremy Corbyn, especially hacks should thank their lucky stars they have something to write about rather than another gray Tory Lite leader.

    The real question is not whether Corbyn will be here in 2020, it’s whether the vacuous opinionated hackery posing as impartial reporters will still have a job.

    • richbpink

      Corbyn could be here by the end of the year as the total incompetence of this current bunch of clowns is being exposed daily and just like after world war two Labour will save the country from bankruptcy the current lot have borrowed more money than every Labour government in history and they haven’t even had to deal with an international banking crisis!

  • Ian Kirwan

    lame

  • Gordon

    The Labour party is now so badly divided it cannot stay together. I think that a mass resignation of the Labour whip is now inevitable. Whether those concerned will stay as Independent Labour members or launch a new party remains to be seen.

    • richbpink

      There are 50 MPs at most who are not happy in the Labour party at the moment could be less and Labour now has over half a million members the largest number of any party in nearly a hundred years and more than the next four parties in the UK combined including the Conservatives! What planet are you from ?

      • DCW

        And still completely unelectable. Thank (insert deity of choice here).

        • richbpink

          Read my comment above you may learn something and lets not forget the Conservative vote rely’s mainly on the elderly and they are literally dying every day !

          • PaD

            I read your comment above and thought it was utter bullshit.
            thanks to your ‘socialists’ running northern europe a lot of people wont actually get old.
            Your hatred of conservatives is similar to Isis hatred of all of us..wake up.

          • richbpink

            Isis as revealed by Putin and then by a leaked Government paper in the USA is a group of paid mercenaries and funded by American corporations and Israeli intelligence agencies. Of course this was actually revealed on CBS news and ignored by the western media because it does not fit the current ideological political situation. I am wide awake thanks it seems you are the one that has been put to sleep by the tabloid media anyway the Tories are dying out and that can only be a good thing it means people are becoming educated and will no longer vote for a party detrimental to their own interests.

          • DCW

            And they are still so out of touch, they will win sweet FA. Those 0.5 million members count for nothing. People with a modicum of intelligence vote anything other than labour, so under the current Marxist / lefty / inept / anti British leadership, they are doomed to obscurity for quite some time. Thank God.

      • Gordon

        The party that saw it all before in the 1980s – and look where it got them!

        • richbpink

          In the eighties the majority of the electorate were not very worldly today my generation and younger have grown up in a much more multicultural world and we are much more aware of what the real world is like. My parents and Grandparents in the main voted conservative because much like the USA today most people thought Socialism was communism today we are a little more educated. My dad was always a Socialist but he was the exception not the rule of that Generation. Today we know that much of Northern Europe is run on the type of Socialist principles the Jeremy Corbyn is proposing including Europe’s most successful and largest economy Germany. Jeremy is in fact very much a centre ground politician globally although the right wing press would have us believe that in the Narrow comparison of the USA and the UK he is hard left which is laughable and no one takes it seriously. We heard all this from the right wing press owned by the same billionaires and corporations that dictate Conservative policy here and in the USA they said he was a 100 to one outsider to win the Labour leadership. If Jeremy Corbyn is such a lame duck how come the media is covering its front page with negative stories day after day and are going to great lengths to try and discredit him on a daily basis ? In the age of information ignorance is a choice.

          • PaD

            Northern Europe is run on the type of Socialist principles the Jeremy Corbyn is proposing…

            And they’ve just consigned their population to years of unrest and bloodshed…coming to a city near you

          • richbpink

            lol!

          • PaD

            Today we know that much of Northern Europe is run on the type of Socialist principles…

            and what a bunch of dangerous traitors’ theyve proved to be. …Cologne..Rotherham Bradford Malmo Oxford ad nauseum…and nausea is the prevailing feeling for most ordinary people when considering the socialist legacy.

            This is not about non-entities likethe Corbyn Abbot ODonnell gang of self-important ‘useful idiots’…it’s about ‘enough is enough’

          • richbpink

            Donald trump how the devil did you get involved in this conversation 😉

          • PaD

            The situation is not remotely funny but you did make me laugh..thanks as I need to lighten up! ——————————————–

      • PaD

        half a million members..thats less than the population of Bristol.

        • richbpink

          Still 370,000 more than the conservatives who’s membership is still declining !

      • clivegsd

        “and Labour now has over half a million members”<— Which is still Jack-Shit in the greater scheme of things when you are talking about millions of people voting

        • richbpink

          Really that would make the conservatives feel better about their declining membership that is now down to around 130,000 and labour is still gaining 2000 a month ! Well we shall see what happens when the next economic crash comes later this year and the Conservatives try to blame labour for that one i guess 😉

    • mervynhyde

      New Labour are NOT Labour, the SDP prove what happens when right wing MPs think they can win outside the Labour Party.

  • Albert Zbingswiki

    Doesn’t matter. Thanks to thei Islamic appeasement, we’re all doomed to beh34ding within a decade or so.

  • liam

    F Corbyn,and labour if he is elected prime minister say goodbye to the UK he bring more hardship on this country than any other prime minister will do .And if their is a God please take Corbyn before the next elections.

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