Gordon Brown is Not My Leader, Whatever Labour MPs Think

Rhoda Klapp

And now I find myself agreeing with Alex Massie.

Forlornehope

This is the best argument that I have seen for some time in favour of keeping the monarchy. But, could we just skip a generation next time?

Kevyn Bodman

You are right,Alex.
The major benefit of the UK's constitutional monarchy is that the role of Head of State is separated from Head of Government.
That allows us to treat our politicians with all the scorn and contempt they deserve while not having our loyalty to the country called into question.

Having said that, I would rather we had an elected, non-executive president.
It works for the Republic of Ireland.And others.
There is no need to follow France or the USA as a model for a republic.

Kevyn Bodman

You are right,Alex.
The major benefit of the UK's constitutional monarchy is that the role of Head of State is separated from Head of Government.
That allows us to treat our politicians with all the scorn and contempt they deserve while not having our loyalty to the country called into question.

Having said that, I would rather we had an elected, non-executive president.
It works for the Republic of Ireland.And others.
There is no need to follow France or the USA as a model for a republic.

trex-mk2

Hannan spoke well. And Nigel Farage too. But what is so disappointing is that the Westminster Tories have completely failed to nail such an easy & pompous target as the Clown-Brown! It's about time the Westminster Tories really showed us all that they deserve to be the next government, rather than probably winning it by default next year due to Labour incompetence. Come on Westminster Tories - speak for Britain! Just like was needed in the late '30s shortly before WWII!

Trex-mk2

Hannan spoke well. And Nigel Farage too. But what is so disappointing is that the Westminster Tories have completely failed to nail such an easy & pompous target as the Clown-Brown! It's about time the Westminster Tories really showed us all that they deserve to be the next government, rather than probably winning it by default next year due to Labour incompetence. Come on Westminster Tories - speak for Britain! Just like was needed in the late '30s shortly before WWII!

J Wright

Perhaps Brown might get a little more respect , if like President Obama he had won his position by a democratic election .Have we forgotten his treachery to his former leader and the thuggery and fear surrounding any kind of election to this post.The man is beneath contempt.Perhaps you could ensure that Lab member Harris expenses claim are published as soon as possible.

TomTom

Tom Harris should stop seeing Strasbourg as "foreign" or he must explain why 4th June 2009 is the date for EuroElections in Britain

Ivy Eileen

I wondered if and when a Labour M.P. or member of the Government would come up with this attack.

As you say, they invent a Convention when it suits them.

As regards actual Conventions, Labour disregarded the one about not contesting the seat of a sitting Speaker at General Election time, the one about rotating the Speaker following retirement, the one about not criticising the Government when travelling abroad and Brown consistently refused to provide a courtesy copy of the Budget to his opposite number the evening before Budgetday. There will be other examples.

Now that we have a European Parliament, new situation - are they not allowed to debate European matters.... but only to act like sheep ? Brown has debased all standards so far that he (and his acolytes) have no entitlement to any courtesies, especially when they do not observe them themselves.

cuffleyburgers

Hannan was outstanding, and merely said what Cameron should have been saying for months.

Harris is clearly an idiot, acting under orders.

BBC coverage UTTER disgrace.

Kervyn - often agree with you, here not. For our country Monarchy unquestionably the best solution. Last thing needed is more bloody politicians, this time competing to be HoS.

TrevorsDen

"what is so disappointing is that the Westminster Tories have completely failed to nail ... " --- I am getting fed up with this rubbish.

The charm of Hannans tirade was that it was to Browns face and he could not dodge it. Presumably the Belgians were sycophantic?

Cameron called Brown a 'phoney' in Parliament and was forced to withdraw by The Speaker. In fact he used one word to sum up Brown where Hannan used hundreds.
Cameron can say what he likes in parliament - Brown just ignores it and reverts to propaganda mode.
In fact Cameron neatly summed up the current situation in todays Telegraph
"Isn't it ironic? As the Prime Minister tours the world lecturing other countries on how to run their economies, the Governor of the Bank of England has suggested that Gordon Brown doesn't know how to run our own"

No doubt the anti Cameroons would lap that up if Hannan has said it.

Now who was it that said 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'?

seb

Kevin Bodman

And when you elect a head of state, this person will have no political affiliations that upset or infuriate half of the population? He or she won't be some celebrity or hack that part of the population reveres and the other part finds ridiculous? If nobody chooses a head of state, nobody can blame those they hate for making a poor choice.

There's a lot to be said against our monarchical system. Try the alternative. There'll probably be even more to be said against that. I can see it now. The People's Choice. Bruce Forsyth for President. Or something equally inane and embarrassing. Of course, if the people want it, it's fine. The people want Big Brother and X Factor. Let's confine the voting to elections for MPs. They're in charge. The monarch can't even vote.

Fergus Pickering

Blair also thought he was Head of State. I can't remember when he said it but he did say it. Why on earth would we want an elected president? The Queen will do very nicely, thank you very much, and King Charles III after that.

Lorna Gray

What would be the point of Cameron speaking like that? The BBC and Sky wouldn't broadcast it. The papers wouldn't publish it. They already censor PMQs whenever Cameron scores a direct hit.

mac

Well said, Alex. Clearly we can add fundamental ignorance of the constitution to the list of collective PLP failings . . .

Valentinus

Yes, I am quite in awe of the leadership the Queen has shown in the present economic crisis: her innovative fiscal polices; her support of the clearing banks (does that really all come from her own money? What a thoughtful person she is); her solidarity with those facing unemployment and house repossession; her lead role in galvanising international opinion behind a Keynesian stimulus package (though some say that Charles was the source of that idea). She is almost a living definition leadership in action. No wonder Harvard are running an MBA option in Queenism next session. Nobel prize nomination anyone?

What about the Prince William? Didn't I read something somewhere about him reducing interest rates last week?

ben

Oh, dear.

Mrs. Mountbatten isn't even the "leader" of her contemptible family of double-digit IQ chinless Hooray Henries. She couldn't lead a dog to a juicy steak. Gordon Brown is, unquestionably, the country's "leader" and adopting fawning Tory-boy monarchism just because you don't like him is cringe-worthy.

Having said that, I don't see what's wrong with criticizing, insulting, or being rude to or about one's leaders. That's the logical flaw here. Surely in a free country one can say what one likes about one's leaders, figureheads, etc., whoever they may be. But Gordon Brown is what you've got right now.

That you lot still enjoy the embarrassment of pathetic, infantile toadying over dribbling, amoral morons and shovelling money in their direction is, thankfully, entirely your problem and one for another day.

Ad

What i really worry about is an obvious psycological flaw in this man. Allthough i am not as far to the right as Daniel Hannan his speech was impecable. He showed Brown for what he is right to his face. This man is Stalin in all but name. His deep seated desire for control, for repeating the wooden party line and destroying any free enterprise this country has is a disgrace!

mac

No, Ben, he's not the country's leader. That is the position of the head of state. He's the leader of one political party. They're welcome to him. But "not in my name", isn't that the trendy if rather passe progressive phrase to use?

Oh, and he's a self-serving, responsibility-dodging liar, but surely you already knew that?

RH

I have never had the opportunity to vote for Brown,nobody in England or Wales ever has. I have never had the opportunity to vote for or against his current policies, no one in Britain ever has. In no sense can he be considered the leader of the United Kingdom, at least Blair had a form of mandate from the people, Brown has nothing and is owed no allegiance by Hannan or anybody else.

RW

Having been elected to govern the entire country, the Government becomes the British Government. NOT the "Labour Government", or the "Conservative Government"; the British Government.

This Government, with its profound self-interest and its ignorance of historical and constitutional matters, persists in regarding itself as the "Labour" Government, and has behaved as if those of a different political view are second class citizens with no right to be heard or represented.

That's the problem. Brown's (and Blair's) failure to represent the country as a whole. Brown specifically does not think he is the British Prime Minister, whatever he says. His instincts remain entirely tribal. He is Labour, and "his" people are who matter.

Chris

Those who are incapable of earning our respect often end up demanding it.

Valentinus

oh and if we are into that tedious 'not in my name stuff'––no unelected multi-millionaire head of this dismally class-ridden state in my name, please. Democracy sucks, doesn't it, when your own guy isn't in charge.

mac

Okay, so you don't do irony, Valentinus.

I'm all for democracy and, no doubt strangely to your black and white take on politics, my distaste for Brown is not balanced by a burning desire to replace him with Cameron.

Given the state were in (and yes, I know the Brownbot refrain, 'it's all America's fault'), let's just have an election to establish a clear democratic verdict on Brown's performance, shall we?

Fergus Pickering

What is it that mkes Daniel Hannan FAR RIGHT? Is it his distaste for the European Parliament. I haven't noticed him hurling abuse at Jews or calling for an increase in powers of the secret police or the abolishing of trade unions or sending women home to tend their children and do the cooking. Have I missed something?

Conservative Cabbie

Valentinus

"Democracy sucks, doesn't it, when your own guy isn't in charge."

It does suck when nobodies guy is in charge. Nobody elected him to be our leader and therefore he represents nobody.

tommyt

well its taken you 3 months but you seem to have eventually found your audience alex.

Can we expect you to rail against Brown for raising with "Queen Elizabeth" the subject of tims and burrds being given equal succession rights any time soon ?

Patrick White

In the words of my vicar: "The good thing about the Queen is that it teaches people there is always someone above you".

Michael Sweeney

Alex's blogging has become a byword for much that is great about Britain - he is the Morrissey of Tory blogging. Three cheers for this post.

Owen Morgan

The lefties here seem to be forgetting a slightly crucial point about Brown. We never voted for him (even his own party didn't vote for him). Why should we regard this unelected lunatic as our country's leader?

David Bouvier

Gordon Brown, the Queen's First Minister,etc etc, is a high executive official chosen by her because she believed he would command a majority in her House of Commons.

The Queen has a constitutional arrangement with her people that she lets the idiot get on with it and they don't chop her head off, but Brown serves on her sufferance, bows down in front of her, dances at her pleasure.

His temporary possession of delegated executive authority seems to have gone to his head.

Some may wish our constitution was different, but wishin' don't make it so.

ally

Owen Morgan - presumably you were there manning the barricades in 1990 against the unelected John Major then? He's the leader of the British Government because that's the way our constitution works.

If you want rid of him, wait till the next election, vote against him and try to persuade other people to do the same. Not that difficult really.

Kifue

I wonder if there is even any point any more, trying to counter the liberal-left self-regarding distortions. To refuse to accept bad governance as a part of this banking crisis, and to vilify bankers the way they are (without acknowledging any good from capitalism) is just one terrifying aspect of their delusions of how the world really runs.
Maybe the Conservatives should just concede the next election, and leave Britain to collapse in the mire. Guaranteed, 20 years on they will still be bitching about 'what Thatcher did' and blaming the Tories.

Valentinus

so...what we are really seeking here is a change in the constitutional structure of the UK Executive. Whenever a governing party changes leader mid-term we should have a General Election––the way that nice Major man did when Mrs Thatcher resigned. There are some basic adult ed courses that will explain carefully how in the UK political system we don't actually get to vote for our Prime Ministers. Something to do with (wait for it...) their not being head of state....

Paul M

What would have given Gordon Brown a modicum of legitimacy as the country's political leader would have been to call an election shortly after shoving aside Tony Blair. That he did not do so, that he does not do so today in the face of his serious unpopularity and the dire economic crisis (of his own making) faced by the country, ensures that he merits every epithet thrown his way.

Nicholas

Kifue 10. (The self-regarding liberal left aka leftofascists base their complete ideology on delusional illusion. Lies and distortions from beginning to end including the East German-like accusation of treason for daring to attack the "Great Leader".)

Valentius 0. (Pure codswallop in every post).

To compare poor old Major with the deluded, egotistical Scotch Stalinist currently occupying No.10 is laughable. This thread seems to have flushed out a little coterie of lefties and/or republicans desperate to defend the indefensible. You'd think they would all be over at the Guardian, trying to defend the priggish White knight.

Give me the Monarchy over the Left's self-serving champagne socialist charlatans any day. What a thoroughly unpleasant gang (q.v. Jon Snow as perfect example) and the thought of any one of them as our Head of State is puke inducing.

Owen Reed

Gordon Brown is not my leader.I was delighted at Daniel Hannans denunciation of this Traitor of Great Britain who ignores the Democratic process.I hope that Daniel Hannon's denunciation acts as a catalyst to rid us of this horrible Nu Labour Government.They are all traitors and I hold them all in contempt.

bfromUS

Please, anyone, forward on the numerous examples of "Republicans in the States" exhibiting said behavior. Maybe Harris has the two parties confused.

mac

"Basic adult education courses".

You could teach a quirky version of political science yourself, Valentinus. You know how it goes in lefty-speak. Lesson 1: "Tories is toffs - Vote Labour". Lesson 2. "Money grows on trees. it's there for Labour to "invest"." Lesson 3: "The unfathomable riddle - the ingratitude of electorates governed by socialists". You'd need a grown-up to help with Lesson 3, of course.

Verity

Well played, Mac! Nicholas, too. As always.

Fergus Pickering, you share a common delusion with the left. You write: "What is it that mkes Daniel Hannan FAR RIGHT? Is it his distaste for the European Parliament. I haven't noticed him hurling abuse at Jews or calling for an increase in powers of the secret police or the abolishing of trade unions".

What you are thinking of, Fergus, is FAR LEFT. A common enough mistake. The Far Right, of which I am a member, would not contemplate a secret police force; and we wouldn't dream of hurling abuse at Jews or any other group (except socialists).

You are thinking of the Far Left, which does all these things and worse. Hitler was FAR LEFT. Stalin was FAR LEFT. Breznev was FAR LEFT. Mao Tse-Tung was FAR LEFT. Pol Pot was FAR LEFT. Peron was FAR LEFT. Castro is FAR LEFT. Ché Gueverra was FAR LEFT. The murderers and abusers of human rights are always on the far left. Hitler's party was the National Socialist Workers' Party. The clue is right there in the name.

The right is pretty much live and let live, but let it be in a lightly governed, orderly society.

Kevyn Bodman

Verity is right as far as she goes in her post above.

But she stays away from an important area.
I would also say that the right are meritocrats.
That means no place for the hereditary principle.
No monarchy, no hereditary House of Lords.

(I don't expect agreement on this.I guess I might get flamed.)

But I wouldn't prioritise the establishment of a Republic,with non-executive President very importantly, at the moment.It's no more than an 'aspiration' as Kenneth Clarke might say.
There are other much more urgent matters.

Fergus Pickering

Come on, Verity. I am sure you know more about politics tha I do, but I know more about language. As far as that goes Humpty-Dumpty waswong and Wittgentein was right. You cannot redefine a word to mean what you think it ought tomean. The word's meaning resides in common usage. And in common usage Far Right means South American generals and Hitler and the egregious Spode of the black shorts and it doesn't mean you or the sainted Boris Johnson. You are just right. Far right people like shiny boots and uniforms and marching up and down. Sapper, who wrote the Bulldog Drummond books was their literary wing. They are dangerous and ridiculous. I am sure you are neither.

De Rigeur

Sorry Fergus, I'm voting for Verity. Calling someone FAR RIGHT is just a form of abuse inverted by the ignorant left.
All the world's suffering during the last century has been one long social experiment. And we're still suffering from it now. Malheureusement.

JohAnt

Brown's not even Labour's elected leader, is he? I don't recall much of a contest. His manifesto was: BecosI'mWorfIt, and his political argument was SeeYouJimmy. Any Labour MPs who wanted to oppose him were slapped down and threatened with the Gulag. Even I'maDinnerJacket had to go through more of a selective process than that.
Hannan was both formally dignified and coruscatingly on target. And Brown looked a fool, with all that helpless grinning.
I do hope he comes back to the EU Parliament for another dose.

Verity

Fergus, I am not "just Right". I am far Right. I'm a free trader. I'm self-reliant and don't believe in any hand-outs whatsoever unless to the truly needy - and then I think it should be done as it used to be done, by private and church charities, by kindly folks who want to donate funds. That is far right.

Fergus one cannot make up new definitions based on the illiteracy and historical ignorance of others. Far right is William Buckley, Mark Steyn and me. And Ann Coulter. At least we're light-hearted. "Funny" on the far left is Jo Brand. And Jonathan Glottal Speech Impediment.

De Rigeur - You're right. It is the historically illiterate who think Far Right is a term of abuse and use it as such. Can't they read?

Yes, the last hundred years has been one long, tragic social experiment forced on people who did not necessarily want to take part.

Admitted Yank

The nice thing about a free country is that it does not have a leader. It has temporary occupants of top spots, who have been voted in to office (or in Gordon Brown's case, appointed by somebody who was voted in,) so they can attempt to get their agenda passed.

Opposing the current leader does not mean you are unpatriotic. It simply means that you disagree with their policies. If your current elected leader in the UK were Joseph Stalin, would you feel it was unpatriotic to oppose his agenda?

Gordon Brown and Barack Obama are both trying to socialize the economies of their respective countries. I want them both to fail in their efforts to do so, because I know that these efforts will hurt both the USA and the UK in the long run. In fact, knowing what I know about economics and supporting their foolish policies would amount to intentional sabotage. Only ignorance of any basic principles of economics could excuse voting for either one of these clowns.

The one and only time where opposition to a leader's policies is improper is when the opposition is engaging in treasonous activity, such as revealing vital national security information to the enemy. Releasing troop movements, or exposing intelligence programs in order to see the nation's military defeated is treasonous. Peacefully protesting a war is not treason, it is just disagreement.

hadrian

It's a bit rich to have a socialist, pro-EU, supra-nationalist, salvation by bureaucracy type from New Labour lecturing us on that most despised of virtues, Patriotism!! But hang on...doesn't patriotism include fearless love of one's country prompting one to criticise those who are destabilising it and have been doing so for a decade? New Labour, same old socialist tricks.
As for Monarchy, so long as its constitutional and occupied by one given to genuine Noblese Oblige and sense of Heritage just what is wrong with it? Far too much pointless gren eyed envy in this country.And I speak as one with enormous admiration for Cromwell!

Conservative Cabbie

Kevyn

"I would also say that the right are meritocrats.
That means no place for the hereditary principle.
No monarchy, no hereditary House of Lords."

You are forgetting that there are two distinct elements to the right - libertarianism and conservatism. Libertarians would probably support that view, but conservatives certainly wouldn't; they cherish the functional heritage of our forefathers.

Charles Johnston

I find it fascinating that all the main writers contributing to the major papers, and who fawned over Nu Labour/Blair/Brown, cannot bring themselves to criticise this Labour Govt's failures and shortcomings. Instead, they hold Brown to be wholly responsible. Granted he is the head of this gang of crooks, thieves and vagabonds, but the blame for the lies that took us in to a gratuitous war, plus abject mismanagement, must be spread a little wider.

Nicholas

I fervently agree with Charles Johnston. One need only look to Mr and Mrs McNulty to see the true face of modern New Labour "socialism" with their millionaire lifestyle and his'n'her chauffeurs. They adopt a bullying, "we know what is good for you" demeanour and talk about social equality and fairness whilst squeezing the state and the people to aggrandise themselves. As they swagger and patronise, talking down the people who despise them and want them gone, so do many other New Labour "celebrities". Corrupt and venal hypocrites of the Cousesceau style, unwelcome hangovers from Soviet era party privilege and centralism, they deserve the same fate.

Sic semper tyrannis

val bradin

Good for mr.Hannan for telling the truth about clown BROWN.Iwatched and listened to his speech mr. hannan, and thought its about time somebody told the truth wether abroad or otherwise

Kevyn Bodman

Cabbie: you are correct about the strands in right-wing thinking and also correct that I had forgotten it.
Thank you.

Charles Johnston makes an extremely imporatant point. The whole government is to blame, not just the PM.

David

Verity reminds me of those lefties who claim that Stalin et al were right wing, and weren't real communists.

Hitler, and those like him, was a far right ideologue politician. That makes no judgement on those of the mainstream right, just as Stalin being on the far left makes a judgement of those on the mainstream left. Those who complain about that tend to have certain problems with their political views, in my experience.

If you want to be accurate, the left/right spectrum is merely shorthand; a two dimensional "lies to children" construct that covers a far more complex three dimensional political sphere. It's perfectly acceptable to use, while simplistic, a more complex and accurate description would perhaps take to long for the average article. People know what is meant, and that's what matters.

John Ionides

A very good post, Alex. Once one political party starts to identify itself with the state then you get into all sorts of problems. You can see it in Russia, with United Russia, and historically with a number of particularly horrible regimes.

Tom Harris' argument is that of despots. He should know better.

Owen Reed

Gordon Brown our leader.If Gordon Brown needs to organise an International conference to con other Nations out of their hard earned wealth,then why doesn't he ask the third world for Britain's money back that he has been so profligate with? Gordon Brown is a waster in the extreme.He is Gargantuan in his infamy.he has surpassed all notoriety.What an ambition he had to be the hated man he is and will be for evermore !!

Owen Reed

Gordon Brown our leader.If Gordon Brown needs to organise an International conference to con other Nations out of their hard earned wealth,then why doesn't he ask the third world for Britain's money back that he has been so profligate with? Gordon Brown is a waster in the extreme.He is Gargantuan in his infamy.he has surpassed all notoriety.What an ambition he had to be the hated man he is and will be for evermore !!

Good luck to the U.S.A. I wish my ancestors had sailed from Plymouth.
Owen Reed

john birch

I to watched Brown being put through the mincer.You can always tell when Brown is uncomfortable because he always has an inane grin on his face.Why Cameron is'nt more like this at questions is a mystery.Brown is such a big target.Roll on next June,you will then see the back of most of the labour party.

Owen Reed

I want ascrap with Gordon Brown
Gordon Brown I want a fight with you of the pugilistic kind.I am sick of your big mouth and I challenge you to a fight.If I beat you you will call a General Election.If you beat me....but you won't.You have dishonoured my Country and I want to fight you.In the park,in the boxing ring or wherever.Come on Brown you bottler,give me a fight.

Owen Reed

My Pet Canary
I was speaking to my Mother on the phone one day and she spoke about Gordon Brown.The conversation got a bit heated and I started to raise my voice.

My pet Canary heard that we were talking about Gordon Brown so he jumped to the exit of his cage and started shouting at me because he hates Gordon Brown because Gordon Brown has put a tax on his favourite seed.

owen Reed

Gordon Brown is a truly inspirational leader.He advocates Green Policies and legislates to suit his Green Policies.He must be truly green because he picks his nose and eats his snot.What a leader we have.