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Wednesday 16 May 2012

Guilty Until Proven Innocent: The New British Way of Justice

Monday, 8th June 2009

Meanwhile, though the BNP might be receiving all the attention, this sort of thing strikes me as being a mightily more grievous threat to society. It's like something from a Philip K Dick story:

Officers are targeting children as young as 10 with the aim of placing their DNA profiles on the national database to improve their chances of solving crimes, it is claimed.
The alleged practice is also described as part of a "long-term crime prevention strategy" to dissuade youths from committing offences in the future.
The claim comes amid widespread criticism of government proposals to store DNA profiles of innocent people, including some children, on the database for up to 12 years.
Civil liberty campaigners have condemned the tactic of as "diabolical" and said it showed contempt for children's freedom.
A Metropolitan Police officer made the claims after figures were released showing that 386 under-18s had their DNA taken and stored by police last year in Camden, north London.
The officer said: "Have we got targets for young people who have not been arrested yet? The answer is yes. But we are not just waiting outside schools to pick them up, we are acting on intelligence.
"It is part of a long-term crime prevention strategy. If you know you have had your DNA taken and it is on a database then you will think twice about committing burglary for a living."

Wouldn't it be simpler to fit all new-born infants with an electronic tag? Perhaps they could be bar-coded too? And surely every town and city in the land needs a panopticon?

And so, you see, in a way, the "mainstream" parties often seem ~~just~~ almost as bad as the so-called extremists. This is their Britain too. Oh, happy day...

[Ht-tip: Samizdata's Guy Herbert who asks, not unreasonably, why this isn't front-page news? ]

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Nicholas

June 8th, 2009 4:15pm Report this comment

As I have written before Labour and their police chums aspire to turn Britain into the biggest open prison on the planet. All concept of the balance between freedom and security has been obliterated by these fascists - the real fascists.

Nicholas

June 8th, 2009 4:46pm Report this comment

The Labour government wish, in effect, to create a multi-faceted panoptican of society whereby in every aspect of our daily lives we are observed and monitored, whether it be the speed at which we drive, the pavements we walk on or the emails we send.

Michael Booth

June 8th, 2009 6:15pm Report this comment

Nicholas is right - this is fascism 21st century-style and it is frightening! Pity it doesn't animate people as much as the expenses scandal 'cos it should!

Joseph K.

June 8th, 2009 6:32pm Report this comment

I grew up in rough part of East London. My childhood acquaintances include, among others, five boys who went on to commit murder, another three who became armed robbers, and one of North London's most notorious rapists. Several others have convictions that I know of for offences including robbery, sexual assault, and serious violence.

With just one exception, ALL of these men could have been picked out aged eleven as future criminals. All of them showed signs at that age - either extreme violent behaviour or anti-social personality traits. The rapist, in particular, had a peculiar way about him when he was even younger. Girls called him creepy even in primary school.

Whether we like it or not, disturbed or violent children frequently grow up to be violent or criminal adults.

If storing their DNA helps to catch them in later years and, in conjunction with more robust sentencing, curtails their activities, then where is the problem?

Disorganised1

June 8th, 2009 6:47pm Report this comment

Or of course they invite 14 year olds with their school to come to the police station, and as part of the demo on police procedures they take their dna and fingerprints.

C Powell

June 8th, 2009 7:02pm Report this comment

Nicholas is right, alas.

A very great shame that not one Tory in recent times has sought to defend the concept of "innocent until proved guilty" or to attack Labour's relentless mania for Stasi-style power.

C Powell

June 8th, 2009 8:01pm Report this comment

One question: how can a 10-year old validly give consent to this? And isn't this in breach of the recent ECHR decision that the DNA of innocent people couldn't be stored? Or don't the police here obey the law anymore?

Nicholas

June 8th, 2009 8:14pm Report this comment

Joseph K: "If storing their DNA helps to catch them in later years and, in conjunction with more robust sentencing, curtails their activities, then where is the problem?"

Your analysis is chilling but unfortunately typical of the useful idiots who facilitate the police state. You would really pick somebody out aged 11 as a future criminal for "anti-social traits"? Dear me. Let's hope it's just the 20/20 hindsight and personal experience talking and not a desire to see society return to the burning of little old ladies as witches. The problem will only arise for you, I fear, when you or one of your nearest and dearest is banged up for something they didn't do or for something they did do but which is not currently considered to be a crime, like reading the wrong book or attending the wrong meeting or saying the wrong thing or thinking the wrong thoughts.

You also make the presumption which is behind so much draconian law that those accused or arrested must be guilty and that the process of investigation, especially where DNA is involved, is foolproof. I sincerely hope that your naive illusions are not shattered in a way that is too close to home.

Paul

June 8th, 2009 11:23pm Report this comment

Why don't we just have appropriately harsh jail sentences for people who have been found guilty of a crime by a jury of their peers? Or is that to flipping radical in this crappy country.

Big Alec

June 9th, 2009 11:01am Report this comment

Most kids today are little b*stards and I agree that the sooner we get them on the database the better. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear!

THX1138

June 9th, 2009 11:56am Report this comment

When the old bill were asked to voluntarily put their DNA on the database the take up was less than 5%.

We must fight the database state. I believe this is the most important issue in Britain today and with the 60th anniversary of the publication of 1984 we have the perfect reminder of why the fight is so vital.

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