Who cares about the BNP?

Bill Rees

But Alex, they do have around a million voters, and those voters presumably thought quite seriously about the issues before casting their vote, even if their judgement doesn't gain the approval of the Islington set.
They should be taken seriously, but that doesn't mean simply calling them names, but analysing honestly what their policies are and either countering them or approving them.
A lot of us who contribute to these discussions are getting tired of the name calling directed towards the BNP, whether we vote for them or not. All countries have nationalist parties, the BNP is ours, whether we like it or not, and the issues they raise are worthy of being taken seriously.

Occasional Ostrich

Why, then, do we pay so much attention to the activities of a tiny, malignant set of fools?

Because, if we don't give them a chance to expose the fatuity of their policies, protest voters may well create an almighty mess at the general election.

James H

There is a difference between being a member and being a supporter. Focusing on membership figures is bound to understate the problem. The Conservatives only have roughly 300 000 members, and we expect them to form the next government! In that light, 12 thousand-ish members might not threaten national politics seriously, but still constitutes a significant problem.

Tiberius

The reason they draw so much attention, Alex, is because they trigger the discussion that most of the rest won't grapple with - the future consequences of multiculturalism and large scale immigration.

We may all differ on what we think those consequences will be, but few of us want to keep our opinions on the matter to ourselves.

Geoff Miller

You are paying attention because they are speaking some inconvenient truths.

They are not such a bunch of malignant fools as you would like to paint them.

Marxist denunciation has had it's day - the British people are waking up..

Wilhelm

''Who cares about the BNP''.

Well, the '' lumpen '' chattering classes at the Spectator,the rest of the media and the london establishment, seems to. Alex.

Ho Hum !

KB

Even a fool sometimes speaks a wise word.

daniel maris

Of course they matter.

The membership is quite significant for a small party. It's about 20 people in every constituency.

But more than that, they matter because teh political elite seem unable to deal with those issues that BNP feed on: mass immigration, street crime, welfare dependency.

They matter because though at the core a Nazi party they don't advertise themselves as such and therefore they are operating in camouflage, seeking to subvert and destroy democracy from within. How absurd that we let totalitarians near our democratic system so they can use it overthrow the rule of law and establish tyrannies. You would have thought the lessons of Weimar Germany and Islamic Iran would have been learnt by now.

Beefeater

The left cares very deeply about the BNP. It is they who are ballooning it into a threat, so they can buttress their claim to moral superiority. And it helps heir dirty tricks department. Anyone they can associate with the BNP tar-baby can be smeared as Nazi fringe.

ndm

I am to some extent less troubled by BNP members than I am by those media outlets and media figures who, even as they disown the BNP, advocate policies remarkably similar to those of the BNP. Their chief impact seems to be the normalization of the BNP.

Augustus

"Racism is the lowest form of stupidity, Islamophobia is the height of common sense!"

Beer Moth

Ah but, like one or two other issues (well one actually), we are exercised not so much about what IS at present, but about what direction events are taking.

That's regardless of whether or not the 'boggled' media choose to recognise it.

Beer Moth

daniel maris

"they [the BNP] are operating in camouflage, seeking to subvert and destroy democracy from within."

What democracy?

gareth

Yes - let's keep it in perspective, BNP is like the old NF - part of human life that is inevitable, like murder, and largely ignored by common folk - which is how it should be. You, Fraser and Rod seem determined to blog this dead horse for all it's worth.

Islam and immigration however is rampant and is 'better not mentioned' by the political folk...You, Fraser and Rod - who live in mansions, in trendy, leafy England. Perhaps you could give this pony a spin outside the courtyard a few times a year to see how the common folk feel. They are massively non-racist - don't be afraid! - but it's just a legitimate topic for discussion and warrants regulation, in a small island.

Marbury

Alex: I think you sort of miss the point here. You may be right that the more attention the BNP get, the bigger they seem. But that's exactly why people are upset about them being on QT: that they will as a consequence seem bigger, and more legitimate than they are. I think, on balance, the BBC is right to have them on. But I don't think it's an easy, nothing-to-worry-about question, as you seem to.

McKenzie

For God's sake do something with that ridiculous hair Alex and I can at least consider getting annoyed.

A. MacAulay

As long as nobody amongst the journaille seems to be able to distinguish between conservative and fascist, the longer this confused, hysterical "debate" will continue.

As long as the Tory party fails it's conservative clientele and tries to pass itself off as a middling PC social democratic party, then the likes of the BNP can pick up about a million votes. At least half of these votes could be simply won, without alienating the core of Tory voters, by addressing the primary fear of these voters, namely immigration.

The Puppet Master

Until the main stream parties tackle Islam 'the religion of peace', as they like to call it, then I think supporting the BNP is the best way to influence the political elite.
The BNP raises issues others prefer to ignore, but which they will be forced to address if it gains more support. I don't want to live under a religious and political Islam thank you very much, it reminds me of communism.
Muslim's will not stop fighting until they have achieved their global caliphate and we will have to fight back against it, or be converted like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc, etc, etc.
I wish Geert Wilders was English, but beggars can't be choosers.

ndm

I wish Geert Wilders was English, but beggars can't be choosers.

There are evidently some Englishmen who harken to the siren calls of Oswald Mosely, and regret the passing of him and his like.

Muslim's will not stop fighting until they have achieved their global caliphate and we will have to fight back against it, or be converted like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc, etc, etc.

This is wild-eyed fantasy. With a billion Muslims in the World we should not be surprised there are some who similarly engage in wild-eyed fantasy. Any sane person knows that there is absolutely no chance of their being a global caliphate just as there is no chance of Britons one day being subject to sharia law. We do, however, need to concern ourselves with those Westerners like The Puppet Master who so willingly abandoned reason. They are a far more significant threat to Western humanity than some Muslim living in a dark cave in North Waziristan.

Until the mainstream parties tackle Islam 'the religion of peace', as they like to call it, then I think supporting the BNP is the best way to influence the political elite.

This is all rather ironically stated in a country where 3,500 people were killed in the last four decades as a result of "religious" violence. Furthermore, does anyone doubt that vastly more people were killed in the last 100 years as a result of violence between (nominally) Christian states than were killed by Muslim violence.

The BNP raises issues others prefer to ignore, but which they will be forced to address if it gains more support. I don't want to live under a religious and political Islam thank you very much, it reminds me of communism.

As far as I can tell the only issue the BNP raises that the other parties "prefer to ignore" is a firm committment to racism. It is utterly delusional to worry about Britons living "under a religious and political Islam." This delusion is nothing more than a convenient excuse for support of the racist policies of the BNP. The reality is that The Puppet Maste already is an apparatchik - not one beholden to communism - but one beholden to ignorant bigotry.

Merlyn

ndm, read the Koran, I mean all of it, then get back to us...

ndm

Merlyn -

And your point is ...

daniel maris

I think Merlyn's point is that the Koran is supposed to be the source of Muslim belief. If you want to educate yourself about Islam you can start with the Koran.

Those promoting Shariah in this country claim Shariah law is derived from the Koran, which is the word of God. It's highly relevant.

There are plenty of examples from history incidentally of small determined groups taking over societies: Christians did it in the Roman Empire, the Nazis did it in Germany, the Bolsheviks in Russia. With the help of mass immigration, flight of non-Muslims, use of political power, and "useful idiots" like the Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Chief Justice who are both pushing Shariah, there is no reason to suppose the UK is immune to such movements.

The Koran is very much to the point.

But - perhaps you have read it?

Bill Coales

Can't be bothered to comment on this one Alex

ndm

daniel maris writes:

-- There are plenty of examples from history incidentally of small determined groups taking over societies: Christians did it in the Roman Empire, the Nazis did it in Germany, the Bolsheviks in Russia. With the help of mass immigration, flight of non-Muslims, use of political power, and "useful idiots" like the Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Chief Justice who are both pushing Shariah, there is no reason to suppose the UK is immune to such movements.

This is a bonfire of straw men sufficent to serve a small city on Guy Fawkes night. The part I emphasized is so insane people have probably been sectioned for less.

There. Is. Absolutely. No. Prospect. Of. Britain. Converting. To. Sharia. Law.

I much preferred it when Britons professed a public ignorance of their neighbours' religion. I find current interest in Islam by the British ultra-right to be both salacious - oh, look at the snuff piece I've found - and mendacious - when words like dhimmi and caliphate are thrown around.

What we really do need to be concerned about is the increasing similarity of attacks on Muslims to attacks on Jews in the 1930s. It is, perhaps, ironic that the most persistent voice in this vein at The Spectator is herself Jewish - obviously one with no understanding of history. The only one of daniel maris' strawmen with any prospect of being pulled from the fire is a repeat of what the Nazis did in Germany. Hitler did not do it all by himself - he needed a cadre of propagandists who could convince the public that the actions being taken were essential to the safety of the Nation. We need to condemn those propagandists and their vile propaganda.

Beer Moth

ndm

"This is a bonfire of straw men sufficent to serve a small city on Guy Fawkes night."

You've sure got that figurative language module sussed.