A Shocking, Startling Outbreak of Good Sense

ndm

How long until the Scottish Sun demands election of politicians?

Craig Strachan

Glad you don't support stabbing. Neither do I, in almost all cses.

Beer Moth

Very good sense indeed.

Right up to the stage at which one's son/mother/uncle/daughter, is stabbed to death. After that it all falls somewhat to ratshit and one is consumed in rage and isolation, that such acts are not punished sufficiently, and that this absence of punishment is perfectly understood, before the event, by those who carry out such acts.

ndm

Beer Moth writes:

-- After that it all falls somewhat to ratshit and one is consumed in rage and isolation, that such acts are not punished sufficiently, and that this absence of punishment is perfectly understood, before the event, by those who carry out such acts.

The purpose of a justice system is to ensure everything does not fall to ratshit - as it does when revenge is mistaken for justice.

Panenka's Chip

I favour the occasional stab. But only in the dark during pub quizzes...

Kittler

I am an auld mannie. I carry a knife to clean oot my pipe. Whit's wrang with that?

Beer Moth

ndm

Who said anything about revenge?

My point is that justice which seeks to avoid punishment, relieves itself of its duties to the victims, whilst at the same time it is very quickly read by some people, as a signal to offend without fear of redress.

Thereby, the notion of justice is demeaned in society and a central pillar of public life is weakened. Which of course, is what such moves are intended to bring about.

ndm

-- My point is that justice which seeks to avoid punishment, relieves itself of its duties to the victims

The issue is finding the appropriate level of punishment for a crime. It is pretty obvious that during the last few decades the victims desire for retribution has taken primacy over the societal desire to see that justice be done.

We can see that in the stupidity of people getting big sentences for mere possession of a gun - I say this as someone toxically opposed to gun ownership. And we see it in the stupidity of mandatory sentences for possessing a knife. And we see it in the ever-increasing amount of surveillance we subject ourselves to in the pretence of freeing ourselves from crime. It is through our tolerance of this stupidity that one day we find ourselves outside Victory Mansions as the clock strikes 13.

Simon Stephenson

"It's probably necessary, alas, to point out that opposing mandatory minimum sentences for carrying a blade does not mean one supports blade-carrying or stabbing."

It may appear to be necessary, but in the world of 21st Century logic it's also almost certainly futile. The modern way is not to seek advancement in discussion, but merely to ensure one avoids having to concede ground.

You've expressed a reservation about contemporary orthodoxy, therefore you're either an extremist or a loonie - or both!

Snowman

If Kittler gets caught with his pipe cleaning knife a mandatory five year sentence looms, no parole. Some months ago, a young murderer using a knife got eight years, eligible for parole after four.

Go figure.

ndm @ 9.52:

‘The issue’ shouldn’t be ‘finding the appropriate level of punishment for a crime’. We had had it until the pseudo-liberal fruitcakes arrived.

Beer Moth

ndm

"It is pretty obvious that during the last few decades the victims desire for retribution has taken primacy over the societal desire to see that justice be done."

On the contrary, the last few decades have seen the rights of victims, relegated to the margin, whilst the rights of those who have inflicted violence have been elevated and consolidated.

(I am referring to the UK - where you?)