Scotland: A Land Where Conservative Principles Die

Framer

if NI was to set its corporation tax at a lower level than London it was simply going to lose that amount from the block grant calculated on the Barnett formula. No real freedom to set your own taxes there.
That's why it won't be happening any more than in Scotland.

George Shepherd

As ever a succinct analysis Alex - I also noted Brian's piece in the Scotsman -BUT - the point re: the Tories is that "Murdo was right" - the Tory brand is beyond the pale in Scotland - a new Progressive party be needed - tax and spend transparency / public sector reform etc

Ruth D would seem to be "on brand" to lead such a progressive group but instead she seems to have chosen the safe option of being ritually humiliated and embarrassed by her London bosses

Tom Gallagher

In a few years, Sctland has turned into a quagmire; this tangled and rebarbative article illustrates the problem only too well. As long as there is a popular and well-led party that is bent on conflict with a house-sharing partner,it really doesn't matter what ingenious solution London devises to try and pacify the situation. Devo-max or fiscal autonomy will be factories of grievances for Alex salmond and his merry men.
And English readers should not console themselves that all will be well if this intractable bunch and their supporters are put beyond the boundaries of the United Kingdom. Given the desire to pursue ancient wrongs and hook up with sum rum international allies, it is quite likely that the troubles of a post-Scotland UK are only beginning. Cameron's best option is to point out that the tawdry and unglamorous UK is the best thing going and that he will not bend over backwards to try and be reasonable to a political force which has nothing to replace it with except loads of trouble and strife.

Rhoda Klapp

Why this constant confusion and conflation of the Tory party, north or south, and conservative principles? What have you seen that I cannot? Or is this in fact the usual Massie disregard of observed and empirical data in order to build some convoluted theoretical argument to seem interesting?

Kittler

What other states have Cameron's "unified tax and benefit system at its heart"
Few I would think, even some small ones don't, like Switzerland, with most tax collected by local cantons.
Not conservatism, more like Marxist "democratic centralism"

Mac

The more the likes of Cameron, Clegg and Milband say, "No, no, no!" to Scotland the better it is for the SNP.

With all the Westminster parties now rejecting DevoMax the SNP will now pursue a popular YES-YES campaign, YES to independence - YES to DevoMax.

Yes to independence because that is the SNP's preferred constitutional position.

Yes to DevoMax because if that is the Scots preferred option then the SNP will say they have a mandate from the Scottish electorate and Civic Scotland to pursue that option at both Westminster and at Holyrood.

The SNP now have a campaign song, "JUST SAY YES" - by Snow Patrol.

"JUST SAY YES", thats the message that will be rammed home to Scots in this debate.

Mac

Tom Gallagher has created an illusion in his own mind that Alex Salmond, the SNP and Scottish civic nationalism have dark, very dark intentions and he has tell this tale to all and sundry because the Scots are too stupid to listen to his warnings, being easily beguiled by popular social democratic policies.

The only darkness here is the machinations of Tom's own thinking. Again he is another person that despite his own best efforts to the contrary adds reason to the cause of independence.

Keep up the good work Tom.

Tom Gallagher

In that case Mac, I merely occupy the ground held by the SNP for many years; they were in the wilderness (as i readily admit I am in Scotland) and insisted that what was the status quo for Scotland was harmful for the nation. Unfortunately, the SNP conserves the worst of British politics (especially New Labour vintage) in its approach to power), spurns the pragmatism that was the hallmark of the British way at its best, and can find nothing constructive that is Scottish enabling it to shape the new political order.

George Shepherd

@Tom Gallagher - the SNP "seem" to be ultra pragmatic - hence their broad appeal across the board - in an age of triangulation and technocratic government, they tick boxes - competence, reassurance and practicality

In any case the whole game is something of a bogey - both cameron and salmond know that Devo Max will be the outcome but they both also know that they can score political points along the way by attacking each other - it's almost like they have cooked it all up via a back channel agreement

meanwhile the real losers are ........yes that's right Labour - irrelevant to the debate so far and in Scotland offering nothing but the same old same old

Max

Tom Gallagher

You're a bit of an arse, aren't you.

michael

Thing about a nation living on state sponsorship is that those who are sponsored
always end up voting with their pockets.
Scottish voters are canny enough not to trust the relationship between politicians and oil.

Tom Gallagher

Of course Max there's no other way to describe me - at least in Scotland that is, a land where if you wish to advance and prosper, its as well not to say what's really in your mind in case it will mortally offend anyone further up the food chain.

Amicus Alba

There should be no devolution max ( not that Salmond can even define it) for Scotland. This impacts the whole of the UK and it should be something considered in a wider discussion after our bulbous chinned wonder puts forward his referendum. Yes or No to break away from the UK and be independent. Massie is suffering nationalist delusion to think that this executive or government would be "lean and nimble and disciplined".

If he wins; fair do's. If he doesn't the SNP can move in with Sean Connery to the Bahamas. High stakes game where the likelihood is Salmond will lose and the only reason he wants a third option is so he doesn't have to consign himself to the dustbin of history. Any feigned talk about a national conversation is about Salmond not having the balls to lay it on the line.

Tom Duffin

It's interesting that none of the detractors of the original article actually address any of the points Massie makes. Can anyone explain the seeming ambiguities in Conservative policy pointed out in the article? It seems that every week we have our Prime Minister making speeches about why European countries should be accountable for their fiscal policies, or the Falkland islanders deserve to decide their own future, yet denies the people living in Scotland the same opportunities. Perhaps Scotland really would benefit from a Conservative voice not tied to Westminster?

Peninsula

It'll be either YES or NO, and Scots must vote YES, as a NO means the end of a chance of more powers for potentially a very long time.

I am confident that voters will be fully aware of this in 2014.

Beefeater

"Anywhere else in the world, Conservatives would deplore a parliament that enjoyed the power to spend but not the responsibility to tax."

Something askew here.
For the modern, free market Conservative, parliament enjoys the power to tax only to the extent of a limited responsibility to spend. But while government can borrow, restraint of the taxing authority is not very useful.
A Scottish parliament is just another taxing authority. The first reaction of a British conservative should be not to help it along. Once it comes into being, all three Scottish conservatives can write op-eds to restrain taxes and spending. Good luck there.

Maggie

The Scottish brand is beyond the pale in England because of Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin - so we're quits. The English get bored easily with prolonged feuds but if the Scots want to wallow in their dislike of the English I'm sure with a bit of effort the English can keep alive the spectres of Brown and Goodwin