Cameron Ducks His Own Scottish Question

R.G. Bargie

Camern didn't answer because there IS no answer. He has no intentions of passing any significant powers to Scotland whatsoever. If he did, why does he need to wait until after a No vote on independence? If Scotland should have extra powers it should have them. If it shouldn't, the timescale is irrelevant.

Sir Graphus

How many extra powers does the Scottish Parliament have to gain before an answer to the West Lothian question becomes necessary.

(Answer; none at all)

Mac

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson stated on the BBC last night there would no new powers for the Scottish Parliament.

Michael Moore, the Scottish Secretary at Westminster refused to answers questions on new powers for the Scottish Parliament.

David Cameron who last week stated promised new powers for the Scottish Parlaimen now won't answer a direct question in the Commons about his promise.

You can take it that every nationalist in Scotland will be raising a glass to toast David Cameron, Michael Moore and Ruth Davidson. Collectively they have shown that the Coalition have been lying to Scots about new powers for the Scottish parliament.

This new Tory deceit will be talked about in houses, in shops, in pubs, clubs and restaurants in Scotland.

Once again the mantra will be heard far and wide - YOU CAN'T TRUST THE TORIES.

Sir Graphus

If Cameron is being vague (sort of a default setting), then so is Salmond.

If "further powers" is vague, then so is "independence". Devo-Max? In or out of EU? Keep Sterling?

Newmains Jimmy

Talk about boredom eh. Horse dead flogging are you - arrange these words in any order you want.

"And let me say something else about devolution. This does not have to be the end of the road. When the referendum on independence is over, I am open to looking at how the devolved settlement can be improved further."

Cameron's Edinburgh speech does not need elaboration until after a yes/no referendum with a suitable and fair question and with the appropriate electorate and with a no vote.

Guru McKenzie

Cameron and his No. 10 crew think tactics, tactics, tactics

Triangulation, short term, fire fight and get some good Daily Mail / Sun headlines

He can't answer the question because he has no idea what the answer should be.

He'll wait a year or 2 and see what the focus groups tell him is the minimum acceptable - and then he'll offer that and hope that Scotland doesn't vote for complete separation

Cameron is starting to sound rattled at PMQ's more and more these days.

He blushes, stammers and loses his temper all too easily

All he has left are the supposedly witty quips and put downs but even he doesn't sound convinced by them any more - he races through them too quickly and can't wait to get the whole thing over with

R.G. Bargie

Salmond hasn't been remotely "vague" about any of those things. SNP policy, stated clearly and frequently, is that Scotland will be in the EU, and will keep Sterling for the forseeable future. What part don't you understand?

Forlornehope

The problem with Salmond's statement that "Scotland will keep Sterling" is that he doesn't explain whether he will be asking to remain in a fiscal union or is simply intending to run a currency board. As the latter is a recipe for default and the former would be so hedged with conditions as to hardly mean independence, he needs an answer. BTW, so does Cameron.

R.G. Bargie

"he doesn't explain whether he will be asking to remain in a fiscal union or is simply intending to run a currency board"

He's explained it many times, but as usual with commenters on predominantly English sites you just haven't bothered to find out.

R.G. Bargie

"Cameron's Edinburgh speech does not need elaboration until after a yes/no referendum with a suitable and fair question and with the appropriate electorate and with a no vote."

Why doesn't it? Either Scotland should have whichever powers Cameron is thinking of or it shouldn't. And if it should, why not implement them right now, to show how the Union works for Scotland?

Newmains Jimmy

Bargie

Simple English comprehension and logic old bean and by the way everybody involved has already said they want a referendum soon to decide yes or no, date yet to be decided.

Here Salmond with clear are not words that trip off the tongue easily. England is supposed to benefit from Scottish independence according to AS but how can that be if we take almost all the oil money or wait, maybe by that way of thinking we should give the oil money away.

R.G. Bargie

"Simple English comprehension and logic old bean"

So no explanation, then?

Newmains Jimmy

Bargie. I am loosing the will to live. It is difficult to see what point you are trying to make and I am looking forward to a pint and some laughs in the Fourways.

"When the referendum is over I am open to looking at..." the construction is clear and the syntax is okay, there are subjects, verbs, and objects in the sentences that make up the relevant passage and there does not seem to be any coded message there but who knows; maybe I will have to go back to my Derrida.

David Milligan

Sir Alexander Douglas-Home made the same "jam tomorrow" statement in the run up to the 1979 devolution referendum. Perhaps Mr Cameron was hoping that the Scots wouldn't remember that one. Well we do and thanks to the internet, we're letting the rest of the population that were too young to remember this know about the similarity between the two claims and situations.

Of course Mr Cameron doesn't want to answer any questions on this because he had no intention of actually offering anything anyway.

What narks me is that he must actualy believe that we're stupid enough to be taken in, in this way. Only a fool underestimates his opponents in this way.

Alex Salmond makes this guy look like a political lightweight every time.

R.G. Bargie

"the construction is clear and the syntax is okay, there are subjects, verbs, and objects in the sentences that make up the relevant passage and there does not seem to be any coded message there but who knows; maybe I will have to go back to my Derrida."

Well, to save a lot of time you could just answer my actual question instead. Merely a thought.

Danny Cowan

I'm a bit lost at what kind of devolution the unionists are offering it seems to change not just by the week but by the hour and depending who is speaking.
And as for Cameron claiming he is offering a referendum ???? what planet is he on now.

douglas clark

Yes, this is all quite strange. We are being asked to choose the 'mystery box' as a serious, political option?

Frankly, I doubt that there is any stomach amongst English MPs for a further devolutionary settlement and both Cameron and Milliband could find their back benchers revolting if they came up with any proposals that met Scots devo max aspirations. Rocks and hard places come to mind.

Robert Peffers

What don't you understand about Scotland and the Pound Sterling, The Bank of England and independence,"R.G.Bargie"?
The Bank of England is NOT English - it was nationalised as the UNITED KINGDOM state bank in 1945. As such it is partly Scottish. In 1998 Gordon Brown made it a UK owned, independent company and it, not the UK parliament, sets interest rates. Sterling was made Scotland's currency by the Treaty of Union. Furthermore, when the treaty ends so does the UK Parliament and England has no parliament. Go figure!

Gene Randell

I don't know why there is all this fuss and postuing. Following the referendum in 2014 Scotland will have voted for independence. All that will be left to Cameron or his successor is to try to put a brave face on things. Decade upon decade of the 'subsidy junkie' myth has created the mindset in England that the UK would be better off without Scotland and th same myth has so irritated enough of the Scottish electorate to make a yes bvote more than likely. A perfect storm which will sweep away the Union.

Newmains Jimmy

Bargie. Your out of Donald Duck. Your question rests on a fallacious interpretation and cannot be answered in any meaningful way. 42 might be as sensible an answer any.

Only another two an a half years or so of largely inanane chatter and the misuse of history and logic still to go. Where has Scottish Common Sense Realism gone when we need it.

Colin

To those who believe Cameron's undefined jam tomorrow position is reasonable, let me provide an alterntive scenario.

The UK is finally proposes a referendum on continuing EU membership. Angela Merkel then says, the EU is wondeful, it has served us all well for many years, we are stronger together but weaker apart.... etc.
Furthermore, I recognise that improvements can always be made, and if the UK votes to stay in the EU we will be prepared to consider returning some powers to the UK.

Press Question - "Which powers?"

"We can look at that after you use your once in a lifetime vote to stay. Trust me!"

Reasonable?

Brian Hill

Psychology will win or lose the referendum, forget the arguments, they are largely irrelevant. At the moment the psychology is building towards a YES vote.

We have the leader, we have had good Government for 5 years, the UK economy is in a mess, BoE and UK Government forecasts have been shambolic since the economic crash, the unionist forces are divided and leaderless, they have as little money as the SNP has heaps.

With each passing quarter the Scots become more and more confident and comfortable with the concept of Independence which now looks inevitable.

And this is BEFORE the arguments FOR Independence are put to the People of Scotland.

VOTE YES

R.G. Bargie

"Your question rests on a fallacious interpretation and cannot be answered in any meaningful way."

Do feel free to help us all out by indicating what that fallacious interpretation might be.

CW

You can pretty much guarantee that when a politician says that he or she will 'look at' something they are either trying to buy time, have no intention of doing anything, or both. I suppose at least Cameron's not lying - he could indeed 'look at' it and come to whatever conclusion he wants. And I think we all know what the answer to that is.

In2minds

So the NHS is even more boring than American healthcare is it? Well if you live on the Kent coast then Belgium, usually the Grand Prix winner for boredom, is closer to home than Scotland. And Belgium although 'independent' at least had the decency to manage without a government for a very long time. Unlike the distant Scotland and its mind numbing sense of importance with its politicians to match. Is there any chance of holding this referendum thingy next week?

DougtheDug

It was actually more than a hint by Cameron about more devolved powers for Scotland. If you look at the transcript of his speech on the number ten website in the Question and Answer section he says,

"But I want to be very clear, the choice is separation on the one hand or our United Kingdom and further options for devolution on the other."

http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/transcript-pm-scotland-speech/

Cameron has made this a referendum between independence and more powers for Scotland but he's not able to describe one power he would put on the table.

Did he think that nobody would ask what powers he was proposing as the alternative to independence?

CW

No we'll hold it when we want to, thanks.

Nick Stonier

"R.G.Bargie"

Your persistent and pompous stylistic affectation of beginning each of your comments with a quotation from a previous comment is tiresome to say the least and does precisely nothing to make whatever point it is you are trying (and failing) to make.

Prince Harry

RG Bargie as I see it, was only looking for clarification on loose unsubstantiated criticisms made of his claims. Quoting those criticisms identifies this need for clarification. He has done this repeatedly as his request for clarification has not been met. If you find this 'tiresome' then I would consider it appropriate that you address your misgivings to the person unable to clarify his point.

Rhoda Klapp

I think a reasonable person would think that if Cameron cannot or will not name the powers in question, he should damn well shut up about them and let the referendum be based in in/out. If he will not shut up, then we must look at his record on promises of this kind for guidance on how good this one is. For me, trust once lost is pretty hard to get back.

Peter Colledge

Salmond has had years to construct the idea of Scottish independence. He has worked on every area of it. If only Lansley were able to do what Salmond has. And as for Cameron....

douglas clark

Rhoda Klapp,

I think it is entirely reasonable to pursue Cameron to the nth degree on what he meant. The referendum is no longer about independence -v- the status quo. It is about independence -v- a pig in a poke. According to Cameron.

Rhoda Klapp

Douglas, it is really between independence and the status quo. You can put no stock in an unformed promise from a politician of any kind, much less one with a record of broken promises. However, the status quo is that if Scotland, the parliament or the people decide to, they may propose just about anything they like, and use the usual processes to get it through Westminster. There can be no closed door as a result of an in/out referendum. As I understand it, nobody has devo max as their target right now. The SNP would have to backpedal on independence and go for devo max. Which is of course far more complicated. But you can pretty much ignore what Cameron says. He has no power to promise anything.

R.G. Bargie

"Your persistent and pompous stylistic affectation of beginning each of your comments with a quotation from a previous comment is tiresome to say the least and does precisely nothing to make whatever point it is you are trying (and failing) to make."

In an unthreaded comment section in which people may have made more than one comment, it is in fact by far the most efficient and courteous way of identifying what it is you're actually replying to. Twatface.

Nick Stonier

"Twatface"

Struck a nerve, did I?