Picking a running mate like it is 2000

Verity

Change and experienc or experience and change.

Hmmmmm ... I don't recall McCain or Palin promising to change things. They're conservatives.

It's the vacuous, sleazy Obama who wants "change!".

The "first term governor", by the way, as the chief executive of the state that contains billions of gallons of oil and billions of cubic feet of gas, she has not been unexposed international pressure.

Your boy's tanked. Live with it.

TrevorH

Why for heavens sake does the VP need to have foreign policy experience?

The President will select a Secretary of State and a National Security Advisor. We all know that the job of VP aint worth a bowl of spit.

TGF UKIP

James, you remind me of someone in your take on Sarah P. Can't quite put a name to him at the moment but it was one of those harumphing old Tory grandees who greeted what they saw as the quite perverse election of Margaret Thatcher instead of Ted Heath back in 1975.

Funny, but I didn't think you were quite that old.

mac

"[whose] statements on foreign policy hardly suggest a great deal of knowledge about the subject". A bit like our Foreign Secretary, you mean?

Disillusioned

I think the most interesting thing coming out of The Spectator's coverage of the US election is the evidence that you know a lot more about British politics than American. Why are you guys even out there? If we want to read about the US election then there are plenty of better informed commentators on the web. Meanwhile, you are missing important British events like Darling's ludicrous comments today.

Please get back to the UK and stop messing about in the US covering subjects you don't understand.

Cogito Ergosum

Vice-President Truman had little experience of foreign affairs when he succeeded Roosevelt. But he spoke for America and did a good job. So would a Vice-President Palin.

By all accounts a Vice-President Biden could stifle America's enemies by his own sheer verbosity. Sometimes unpleasant weapons have to be used!

ndm

John McCain has made a spectacularly bad misjudgment in his first serious decision as the putative President of the United States. This poor decision supports Barack Obama's contention that his judgment trumps McCain's experience.

The United States has barely survived the misjudgments of the Bush Administration - from poorly-planned wars to cronysim. McCain's selection of Sarah Palin confirms it would face four more years of the same failure were he to win the election.

rush-is-right

I know that those are big boots to fill but....I'm hoping that Sarah P can be the Margaret Thatcher that her country needs sometime soon. Where ours is going to come from though... God knows.

Austin Barry

The candidates' choices for VP are quite mad, but remember that they are the selections of St.(or perhaps Iman) Obama and Geezer McCain, both deranged in their own all-American way. But then nearly all the world leaders are quite barmy: Mugabe, Mbeki, Ahmadinejad, Kim Il-Sung, Brown. So who can gainsay the efficacy or otherwise of Biden and Palin? We, the people, can just hone our sense of ironic detachment and look on as the demons of unease and anxiety claw at our collective psyche.

Verity

Disillusioned - I couldn't agree more. So many wrong assumptions based on half-misunderstandings. It's driving me nuts.

And now a vapid, utterly absurd new meme is springing up on this blog - that Governor Palin can be "another Margaret Thatcher".

Dear God! The sheer naiveté blows the mind. The sheer provincialism and foolish self-regard. Palin is the Governor of the biggest state in the Union. She is already immensely powerful. She is the CHIEF EXECUTIVE of Alaska, for God's sake! She controls the national guard. The only thing they have in common is, they are both women. Palin is not the first woman governor. There are absolutely no points of similarity of any kind. It is so screechingly provincial it makes my blood run cold.

Roy Simpson

The USA's finest post war Presidents were, in my opinion, Truman and Reagan. Both achieved distinction in foreign policy matters.
It was Truman who took the brave decision to use the atomic bomb to curtail the war with Japan, thereby saving thousands of allied casualties. He was also instrumental in the creation of the Marshall Plan, the Truman Doctrine, (to contain communism), and NATO. It was President Reagan who, by standing firm against the Soviets, was the significant factor in the demise of the Soviet Union and the Cold War.

Neither had "previous foreign policy experience". It didn't stop either from taking advice and, on the whole, making sensible and far sighted decisions.

Joe Camel

The unmistakable tone of desperation that has crept into the Democratic Party's press releases (ndm at 8:04 p.m., above, but also elsewhere on these talkbacks) can only mean that the Alaskan surprise has got the Obamessiah and his worshippers seriously rattled.

Verity

Austin Barry - Care to explain this phrase: "both deranged in their own all-American way."

What is an "all-American way" of derangement? Can you define it and tell us how it applies to either or both candidates?

Carly

Here is the rationale we are being told to accept:

That it is ok to have an inexperienced MALE President (Obama) but not ok to have an inexperienced FEMALE Vice President (Palin). This is sexist hypocrisy.

Verity

Roy Simpson - Agreed. Every word.

Ganpat Ram

Can someone enlighten me as to what experience Obama has?

He ran for President after two years in the Senate, and never having run anything but his mouth.

Palin, by contrast, has been running a large state abutting Russia and Canada with massive revenues, and earning 80 per cent approval ratings.

She has a son on his way to Iraq.

She is better qualified to be president in terms of actual experience of GOVERNING than Obama, McCain and Biden put
together.

David Lindsay

"the misguided holiday from history"

Otherwise known as the Bush Administration.

"America fighting two wars"

So end them. Just pull out. What would actually constitute victory or defeat in either of them, and why?

"a resurgent Russia"

Grow up. If this were happening, then it would be a good thing, and certainly no threat to us or the US. But those who cannot live without some sort of bogeyman are going to have to do better than this as "al-Qaeda" fades and no one can be tempted into caring about Iran. Either that, or grow up.

"an Iran that is dangerously close to going nuclear"

Again, even if this were true, it would pose no threat whatever either to the United Kingdom or to the United States. So, again, grow up.

Carol-Ann

When people questioned Obama's experience or lack there of, it was portrayed as a euphemism for his race and declared racist. Yet the same people are now throwing this accusation at Gov. Palin, yet no-one says it's sexist.

Austin Barry

Verity, certainly: "All-American" equals naive, earnest, self-centered and lit by the conviction that Americans are the elect, the chosen people. But, hey, I love their chubby charm, wonderful scenary and the freedom to turn right at stop lights if no traffic is approaching from the left.

Craig Strachan

Carol Ann: "Yet the same people are now throwing this accusation at Gov. Palin, yet no-one says it's sexist."

Like I say, the problem is not that she's a chick. It's that she's a hick.

andrew kirkham

Palin has far more experience that Obama , Obama has done nothing except pontificate in the Senate. Palin has been managing Government and if anyone has been in local Government then you are going to learn a lot about management

Alf Tupper

"...I'm hoping that Sarah P can be the Margaret Thatcher that her country needs sometime soon."

Why would a nation seek to emulate something which was, in its original form, such a catastrophe?

Alf Tupper

David Lindsay.

I think the 'holiday from history' label, might refer to a time scale much greater than the Bush era.

And if your summary of developments in Iran is anything to go by, then I think it's yourself that needs to do some growing up before it's too late.

Roy

While some can mention Reagan as a notable President in foreign policy matters, it has to be reminded that it was Reagan who gave Pakistan a $3.2 billion aid package in 1981, showing a blind eye to its use. This was a friendly overture to make sure of a suitable base to see off Russia from Afghanistan. While the deceitful Zia was being all charming and friendly he was channeled a big proportion of the funds into producing a nuclear device. It has to be questioned at this juncture today whether Russia would have been the best option to have the country of Afghanistan all to itself.

oldtimer

Having "experience" is, of itself, not necessarily a good guide to how people will perform in the highest office in the land.

Others have already pointed out Truman`s record in foreign affairs (post WW2 the Marshall Plan, founding of UN and NATO) despite no previous record or obvious pre-occupation with such matters. What mattered was an ability to set clear objectives, appraise unique and evolving situations, and to devise a strategy and course of action to help make them happen. An ability to think clearly and to be resolute in decision seems to me to be the qualities that matter the most.

By contrast, Anthony Eden probably was as experienced in foreign affairs as any of his predecessors as PM. Yet he committed the enormous blunder of Suez and ended his career in comparative ignomony.

So far as Governor Palin is concerned my view is this. She may "only" have been an elected mayor of a small town for a couple of years and Governor for about two but this is long enough to find out if she was/is up to the chief executive jobs she was elected to do. It seem that she was. That is a plus point for her that is not shared by any of the other candidates.

It is also a truism that no one can have any conception of, or can adequately prepare for these top jobs until they find themselves in them - just ask Gordon Brown.

JONNY

Palin's Annie Get Your Gun finger on the nuclear trigger with the world teetering on Armageddon?
Oh God.
Could the Oxford Professor of Dystopian Nightmares predict anything more horrendous?

As for me I'll be a Believer. Down there on my knees praying.

dennis

Verity

I don't recall McCain or Palin promising to change things. They're conservatives.

PALIN: I didn't get into government to do the safe and easy things. A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not why the ship is built.….. The people of America expect us to seek public office and to serve for the right reasons. And the right reason is to challenge the status quo and to serve the common good…. If you want change in Washington, if you hope for a better America, then we're asking for your vote on the 4th of November.

Disillusioned

I can't agree. The analysis + debate here is a lot better than on any US blog I've found.

Verity

I see that some male wanabees on this thread are emulating James, who puts a lot of thought into trying to sonnd American, when he so clearly is not one, by writing what they imagine is Americanese.

I've noticed that a lot of wanabees on this site who try to sound American say, "But, hey!", as they used to say on Friends. They seem to think this pharse is key.

Old Timer - I agree with your post. Of the two presidential candidates and the two vice presidential candidates, Sarah Palin is the only one with chief executive experience.

She turned around the fortunas of the town that elected her mayor and I read - I can't track it back - that the job she did was considered so outstanding that she was elected to represent (AK? - don't know and can't find it) mayors at a US-wide national conference of mayors. In other words, she was endosed by her peers - not a bad recommendation.

She saw off the then-current governor of Alaska, plus a former governor who was running, and got cracking cleaning up the state. Her performance has been outstanding enough to come to national attention. Yet all some mean-spirited little men commenting here can do is come up with moronic little putdowns. I refer you to the stream of angry, utterly pointless, lunacy from Jonny, above.

Austin Barry - another "but, hey!" man - some cities in some states allow right turn on red. You need to understand the governance of the US before trying to sound like Jay Leno - certainly a modest-enough ambition in itself.

You people drive or travel on the filthy, stuffy, over-crowded tube. Sarah flies her own (peronally, not state-, owned) seaplane to get around outside the cities. She's a free spirit and she is very capable. Think about this: She's been doing all these things during the years Obama has been voting "Present" in the state assembly and, latterly, DC. Look at his record. He has initiated nothing and he has accomplished nothing.

I notice the women here, including me, are more admiring of what Governor Palin has accomplished. This is going to be echoed throughout the United States on voting day. McCain has made a daring and brilliant choice.

By the way, as a governor, Sarah outranks the other three individuals running.

Alex

'Disillusioned' (August 30th, 2008 7:20pm)

The Spectator must have touched a nerve with you on this article. Does something ring true?

... if you feel there are 'better informed commentators' than the Spectator, why are you here?

Next time, if you wish to leave a comment here, make sure its constructive rather than vacuous.

Verity

Dennis writes: "The analysis + debate here is a lot better than on any US blog I've found."

http://chicagoboyz.net/ The level of blogging and commentary is informed and thoughtful. The writing is civilised and courteous.

Craig Strachan

Verity: "She's a free spirit and she is very capable"

Right, she's free with other people's property and capable of using her public office for private spite.

jsfl

The point of picking Palin is not to compare her to Biden but to compare her to Obama.

If she is inexperienced then what is Obama?

She is the junior partner in the GOP candidacy. Therefore shouldn't Obama be?

What were the Democrat Insiders thinking backing Obama over Hillary......

Biden becomes an irrelevance because he will only count if Obama is no longer around.

Unless they can catch Palin and find something sinister in her closet then I suspect that will be the underlying GOP narrative from here on in. It's already starting.

All McCain needs to do is snatch a few % points from Obama and Palin might be the catalyst needed to sufficiently undermine him.

I just waiting for the first time Palin reminds people of Obama's San Franscisco speech.

' Those small town Americans clinging on to their bibles and their guns'

Pointing out that she is one of them and she didn't need political insiders to help her succeed.

David Lindsay

Alf Tucker, even if the Iranian threat existed, then it would not be to the United Kingdom, nor to the United States.

At most, it would be to Israel, which is not a part of the United Kingdom, not a United State, not even a particularly good friend of the United Kingdom, and not even a particularly good friend of the United States.

Both parties in America have clearly had enough of the war lobby, and not before time. Even McCain has nominated a paleocon as his running mate.

So, since all you neocons out there cannot support any ticket with either Obama or the Buchananite Palin on it, is it time for a third party or an Independent candidate from your stable?

Who, exactly?

And why, exactly?

Good luck...

Gil

David Lindsay, why don't you give it up. You've made your point: You support Pat Buchanan who recently wrote a book claiming that we could have reached an accomodation with Hitler and WW2 was unnecessary.

Now you oppose policies that would prevent Israel being backed to the wall. Ok, we get it.

Can we move on now?

Frank Pulley

Verity

Yesterday in the small wee hours I read a paragraph on the Wikipeadia biography of Mrs Palin that suggested that it has been alleged that her Down's syndrome child is in fact the child of her eldest daughter and that she feigned the birth herself to conceal the fact. They cited the fact that her daughter was 'away on a trip' on the date the baby was born and that Mrs Palin returned to work only three days afterwards.

I intended to cut and paste the piece, but having started a comment on the Coffee House I returned to the Wiki entry to transfer it to my post and the paragraph was no longer there. I know the Wiki is interactive an that it is invigilated so perhaps it was a smear that was detected and deleted. I've googled around today and can find no reference to such an allegation elsewhere. Do you know where this could have started by any chance? Is it likely to have substance? If it is then surely there are people who simply must know and the truth will out. That would be the end of her ticket wouldn't it? You seem to be an expert on her career and background - heeeelp!

Zenobia

Frank - since there are a number of photographs of Governor Palin when she was pregnant with her fifth child available - why do you think that comment was there in the first place and has now been removed?

Hint - Libel

Augustus

Re: Babygate -
It seems that the original source of the story was the socialist website Daily Kos. Andrew Sullivan also blogged about the story, displaying a picture of Bristol holding Trigg. Even CNN's informal blogging tool, used by their left-wing supporters for stories they themsleves dare not report, chimed in. It has now been debunked. Personally, I would say that whether the mother or the daughter (unlikely, in view of her age) is the mother of Trigg is not that important. What counts is the love which the family will give the boy.

Verity

Frank P - I hadn't even heard this ridiculous rumour - which reeks of being made up by malicious lefties. The malice of the left is profound, especially when they thought a huge prize was within their grasp. Now Obama's dead meat and they are furious.

She wasn't back at work three days after the birth! It was three weeks. Which, for an onerous job like hers, is still awfully fast. But she has the resource of a large and loving family, with sisters and sisters-in-law and she's given birth four times before and knows her own recovery timeframe.

Tell me this, why would a high profile national figure agree to act as a mask to protect the name of someone no one's ever heard of? It's so bonkers the notion could only have hatched in the "brain" of the disconnected, demented left.

From what we know of that family, they would have rallied round the daughter, had the child been hers, and not pointed any fingers.

Think of it. Her husband's a roustabout. He works in production on the North Slope. That is one hell of a rigourous job and he has done it for years, although now he leaves for work from the Governor's mansion. One of the two sons is due to leave for service in the Armed Forces overses, I think it is this week.

This story is so bonkers I honestly had to read your post twice. A world-famous governor tipped to be the next Vice President of the United States agrees to be a mask for someone totally unknown with no reputation, other than in her own circle.

I cannot believe this!

Don't be so daft, Frank!

Frank Pulley

Verity

I wasn't being daft, merely reporting what I saw on Wikipaedia, and wondering whether I was imagining that I saw it - as it has disappeared! As you had done more research on this than anyone else posting here I was consulting the oracle. I've been preoccupied all day and away from the blog, but I just saw Sky News and the rumour was reported there and I came straight to this thread to see what had transpired. I figured it must be a smear (as I intimated), but WTF do I know? That's why I asked you. Don't snap at me m'Dear. If we can't run these things past the Com-mitt-ee, how can we get to the bottom of things? Obviously things have developed since I posted yesterday and it is a smear. Thank you for your help.

Frank Pulley

Augustus

Thank you for that information, now I know I wasn't dreaming it! Wicked lot, these Obamaniacs. Only this time it has back-fired; let's hope it loses him a few million votes. I agree wholehartedly with your last sentence.
It would be interesting to know how long it was on the Wikipaedia item before it was blasted.

Marian C

Frank - Your not dreaming, I saw the same thing, an absolute disgrace if you ask me. How low can they sink