Oh No! The Muslims Are Coming!

David

"a claim which, as this BBC report suggests - would require improbably heroic levels of fornication"

Well, the claimants of a Muslim birth explosion are unlikely to be having sex, so they probably presume others are going at it hammer and tongs......

Grassmarket

Far from being the preserve of a gang of extremist nutters, these fears are shared by millions of Netherlanders, even though they know better than to express them. You only have to compare house prices in Delft, Alkmaar and Gouda with those in Rotterdam and The Hague to see the reality of situation.

Ben

You been reading The Grauniad this weekend, Alex?

Tired of apathy

Alex, I'm delighted you set so much store by what the BBC has to say on anything. Perhaps you are not worried, but there are a hell of a lot of us who are. Obviously things are nice and quiet in the ivory towers of the Border country.

Dhimmiwatcher

Classic dhimmiwatch material.

How we chortle at their head-in-the-sand vivus momendie.

Nicholas

The WCRF is trying to ban parents from giving schoolchildren ham sandwiches in their packed lunches.

Clearly another Islamic plot.

Verity

Fearing "a europe toiling under sharia law" is a "masturbatory fantasy"? Good grief, man!

Augustus

Maybe they should think of an alternative. Osama?

ATFlynn

Well I don't know about that, but I do know that there are some 54 Million Muslims in Europe on a permanent basis. And look again at the British figures. There can, and in some cases are, man, wife, and that can be one two or three, and the off-spring some six, seven eight people. But for political purposes it only counts as one person. It is my belief, that there are now some Twelve Million imigrants and asylum seekers here. Now you half-wit, examine the cost. Your taxes are part of that. You might have no reason to complain, but believe me there are some Thirty and one half million Taxpayers and most of them are paying far too much in Taxation because of this nonsense.
Now go back as far as the 1970s.
Did you not listen to Wogan on Radio Two?? Remember his Gatport airwick ? And his description of the Indian Immigration Officers? And how they ran there own service and charged for the visa and the work permit. That was the Seventies, and at least one man went to jail for that fraud. It has been happening ever since then. Twelve Million might just be a guess on the short side.
Over the last thirty years, Westminster has made such a mess of everything it touched, Westminster must now go. It is finished. The County Council Structure is a size and a structure we Taxpayers can control. Making sure they buggers can't get their hands on the Taxpayers money.
Regards, ATFlynn,
"Norfolk's Mutineer"

Verity

Nicholas, in addition to which some schools in Britain are, without the parents' knowledge or permission, serving halal meals.

Forcing British children to eat animals killed in terror and cruelty should be actionable by law. But then, in the face of militant islam, there's no bottom to the pit of craven dhimmitude the British employ.

Simon Newman

Well, your status as being among the bien pensants is secure, Alan.

There's a book just out on the Hijra, the Islamic doctrine of immigration as a form of warfare:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/the_hijra.html

Although I'm sure you won't be sullying yourself reading it, or any other informed source for that matter.

David

"Perhaps you are not worried, but there are a hell of a lot of us who are. "

Point being, there actually isn't a reason to and that if you actually look at the facts, the scaremongering and outright bigotry have no basis in fact.

As I previously commented, the same fears were raised about Jews in the begininning of the 20th century. Turned out to be as baseless then.

Simon Newman

"how many people desperately want to believe in the idea of a muslin reconquista sweeping away european elites.."

Unfortunatelt the 'elites' are the last people who'll be 'swept away', hence their complacency. Why worry about your grandchildren, especially if you may not even have any? In the meantime the elites get to sweep away what's left of the indigenous working classes, which seems to have been a major goal the last 40 years or so.

David

"serving halal meals."

So? If you aren't muslim, whether the meat is halal or not makes no difference.

"Forcing British children to eat animals killed in terror and cruelty should be actionable by law"

Firstly, that's a horrendous misrepresentation of halal slaughter. Like kosher slaughter, the animal must not suffer in death for it to be halal (or kosher if that is the case). The controversy comes as normal slaughter stuns the animal, which in the case of kosher slaughter and only some halal slaughter is unacceptable, as the animal has to be unblemished, which stunning is considered. As such some amnimal rights groups consider that halal and kosher slaughter must be banned. However, the studies show that, due to the requirement that the slaughter must be as pain free as possible, there is only a slight discomfort when the animal is killed. There is no terror or cruelty as you put it.

Secondly, you don't appear to have a problem with kosher slaughter.

Thirdly, given the way many of the aminals that are the source for school meals are farmed for cheapness, if you were really concerned about animal welfare and cruelty, then halal would be the last thing you would be going on about.

Sick of Apathy

David, Please try and compare like with like. The numbers of Jews entering Britain was and always has been but a pin prick compared to Muslim immigration. I doubt if even the most militant Jew has expected Britain to dance to their tune - unfortunately this is not the prevailing attitude amongst the Moslem community.

Edward McLaughlin

Another refusal by Dr Massie, to put the lights on and look ahead. Very similar in temperament and probably in aim, to a recent item by Dr Davis - at least here we get to see the reception given by readers.

It's actually very simple Doc: go and talk to any of the indigenous population of any of our major towns and cities (don't try Hawick). Ask them how their environment has changed in the last thirty years. Any 'figures' the BBC might supply, fall short of explaining what these people are witnessing, or to put it more accurately, what they are being subjected to.

Could it not be just possible Doctor, that some of us who express alarm, are not slavering at the mouth, intent upon stirring trouble, but have the sense to realise that if no attention is given to this, then we will have trouble thrust at us?

Finally another question: if it w e r e proven that indeed the alarmists are right and that Europe (why no capital BTW?) is in the process of rapid takeover to become majority muslim; then would that be a desirable thing in your view?

Alf Tupper

David

At which point 'in the beginning of the 20th century' did Jews undergo such a rapid rise as a proportion of the population of our country?

And at what point was there such a virulent hatred amongst Jews toward the rest of the British population, that some of them saw fit to take bombs onto the public transport system?

David

"The numbers of Jews entering Britain was and always has been but a pin prick compared to Muslim immigration"

At it's height, as a proportion of the total population of the UK it was comparable, if not larger. It was certainly big enough to trigger the Aliens Act.

"Any 'figures' the BBC might supply, fall short of explaining what these people are witnessing, or to put it more accurately, what they are being subjected to."

You may wish to consider the definitions of "objective" and subjective" and the implications thereof for truth and accuracy.

Verity

David addresses me, "You don't appear to have any problems with kosher slaughter." Hmmmmmm ... I wonder what he means by that?

Actually, David, I have said many times on this site that kosher and halal have to be outlawed. What was sensible practice in the desert 2,000 years ago is not applicable today in a civilised society. Further, superceding that point, we cannot exempt some people from following the law.

Clear enough?

David further writes: "if you were really concerned about animal welfare and cruelty, then halal would be the last thing you would be going on about."

When you go out, David, do you trip up a lot out of inattentiveness?

I am saying that British children should not be subject to some alien moonbat religious eating law, and it shows great disrespect to British parents to try to sneak alien and revolting religious practices into schools to placate a noisy and aggressive segment of the population.

Matt

Alex, are you a man or a woman? If I had to guess, I'd say you were male, but the girlie hairstyle leaves a nagging doubt in my mind.

Austin Barry

A 'muslin reconquista' agrhhh, will the other textiles fight back or will they collapse in a heap of appeasement by the laundry bin?

David

"I am saying that British children should not be subject to some alien moonbat religious eating law, and it shows great disrespect to British parents to try to sneak alien and revolting religious practices into schools to placate a noisy and aggressive segment of the population."

And I'm saying you are wrong in how you describe kosher and halal slaughter, and that it's of no consequence if someone non-muslim is given halal meat to eat (it is rarely "snuck by them" too). In the case of schools with a good number of muslim children, it merely makes financial and logistical sense.

Nicholas

David, after watching the merciless beheading of an innocent, helpless human being on video in the name of the same religion whose practices your posts seek to defend nothing you write here is of the slightest interest to me. I don't care, OK?

Edward McLaughlin

"At it's height, as a proportion of the total population of the UK it [the proportion of Jews in the population of Britain] was comparable, if not larger."

You may wish to consider the wisdom of pulling statistics out of thin air to fit you argument.

And then tell us how many Jewish bombs tore rush -hour railway carriages apart.

ndm

Great post.

We need more people willing to stand up to this nonsense. The Spectator is fortunate enough to have two - with Clive Davis being the other.

Verity

David - Jews and Jewish immigrants to Britain and their descendants have absolutely nothing to do with this narrative and I will not allow you to derail this issue.

Nicholas seems to have the same thought.

The Islamic immigrants are here as part of their ambition to expand the Caliphate for their diety. They were stopped at the Gates of Vienna for their trouble a thousand years ago. Their ambition to have the native Brits follow their laws - as in their vile halal habit - their vile habit of slicing the clitorises off little girls of 10 - thus ensuring that they will never know any sexual pleasure and thus never embarrass the family by running off with another man, their habit of "marrying" four wives to breed warriors for Allah, their habit of denying human rights to women, including even to dictating how women dress. In Saudi Arabia a woman cannot go out of the door unless accompanied by a male, even if that male is an 8-year old boy. In Saudi Arabia, a woman isn't allowed to drive a car. (The ban on driving would be better applied to Arab men, "Lord" Ahmad qv, but that's another issue.)

Any woman who has ever been in the Middle East will have experienced going through a queue backwards, because men - and they do it without malice - it's just the natural way of the universe - push in front of you and take your place in line. The longer you're standing in the queue, the further back you go.

As Nicholas mentioned above, they behead people who disagree with them. Remember Ken Bigley? Remember Daniel Pearl? They also bomb planes and train stations, tubes, nightclubs, gigantic office buildings.

The Labour Government's dhimmitude is deliberate. They have been, for the past 12 years, destroying our sense of national identity and the chippy Muslims are a handy lethal weapon.

Their women in Britain use the burqa to single themselvs out as being morally superior. BTW, friends who have been to Islamabad tell me one doesn't see many women in burqas. These British Muslim women are making a point.

Frankly, in the main - and I except the ones who have made their lives here by accepting and participating in our way of life - they would be happier staying in their own backward environment. All this rage at our way of life can't be good for their blood pressure.

Matthew

There are numerous spellings of "Mohammed" commonly endowed, all not considered to be 'one particular name' by the body that instigated the name survey, so to speak. Thus, position no.16 may infact correspond to position no.1. Of course, it still stands that a large majority of muslim males are named Mohammed, where there is more variation, in dare I say, 'native'names. However in light of this fact, your claim of the insignificance of the 16th ranking is baseless. Furthermore, it is obvious that illegal immigrants' newborns are not accounted for; it would be dishonest to not state the possibility that illegal immigrants are in their millions in Europe. These are merely the most obvious deficiencies in your analysis of the, as you claim, unfounded problem of Muslim hegemony. Other commentators have offered other valid conjectures in my opinion.

Kittler

Where are all these muslims? Mr Flynn thinks there may be more than 12 million. I live in the UK and have not seen anyone whom I could assume to be one for weeks. I have not been sitting in the house, travelled hundreds of miles in all directions and cast eyes on thousands of folk but didn't spot one.

Mitchell Young

Are there issues to be dealt with regarding immigration and integration? Of course there are.

Well Mr. Massie, to paraphrase another bloke when reviewing a review of a 1990s book about immigration into America, why don't you point us to all your serious, thoughtful, and carefully considered columns on immigration that predate Wilders, Steyn, or the recent (minor) BNP success.

bob23bob

When in 1688, after Roman Catholic James II (England's last absolute monarch) was sent on a permanent vacation by his daughter Mary II, his son in law stadholder William III and the protestant parliamentarians who invited them, the Roman Catholics in England were not allowed to vote for 100 years. This was to safeguard the new shift of power from monarchy to parliament (the people), as it still is today. Hooray.
This move secured the alliance between England and the Netherlands and subsequently put a halt to the power claims of the Roman Catholic Church in both Countries.
Now 330 years later, Alex (Alexander = man's defender, warrior) probably won't see the threat of the next theocracy, Islam, until they come knocking on his door. By then he'll only have himself to argue with when they give him his choice.

- life is beautiful -

gsw

3% of a population adhering to a misogynistic theocracy is already 3% too much.
Yes, I for one would appreciate an open minded religious confrontation, rather than the Dhimmi lies of how the women enjoy being supressed.

Manumission not submission!

O M

Some of the comments below just shows the 12th Century view many europeans have about Islam.

Europeans haven't learn't much about the world they live in.

My suggestion is that people should learn what Islam is from Muslims not Hollywood or the crappy newspapers.

As for those who keep mentioning the London train bombings, how many Muslims have the British killed in Muslim countries before 9/11 and 7/7? I think the Brits have killed more Muslims than the other way round.

Aret

Thank you Mr Massie -- Your statistics are correct, and I hope you will continue to write on this.
French "Muslims" are non-practicing at the same rate as the perfidious French: 66-70% (see Integrating Islam, by Laurence and Vaisse).

Once European Jew was an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. Now it's European Muslim that can't exist.
Sure there are violent individuals and groups of all sorts -- it's just that their acts are never considered "Christian Violence" or "Jewish Violence".
Get to know a Muslim, get to know what you fear, and I guarantee you your views will evolve. Yeah, they are human beings just like us, in all their diversity and individuality and beauties and faults.

Nicholas

"I think the Brits have killed more Muslims than the other way round."

That sentence implies the author believes the two are mutually exclusive. But I guess we knew that. So much immigration under Labour has been letting alien cultures have their cake and eat it. So if Muslims are different to Brits why are they here in Britain and not in Muslim countries instead? Oh, I know the answer to that one. Socialists invited them in because hatred of the mother country, a thinly-disguised socialist perspective, is a good qualification for potential voters who will support and keep in place the regime seeking to destroy it. Plus they get to enjoy our "decadent" Western benefits whilst they shout, threaten to kill us and wave placards. They share fascist tendencies too, despite the fact that the Islamist position towards women seems so much at odds with the socialist one.

But at least we have the justification for terror from the horse's mouth so to speak. And I wonder if OM considers himself a "moderate" Muslim, an apologist for terrorism or just a Brit hater? Oh, and by the way, far from being ignorant about Islam some of us have plenty of experience of it up close and personal.

12th Century? Christ, at least then we had rulers prepared to fight for our religion and values. Not the craven, self-destructive wimps who bleat appeasement now.

princetrumpet

Sand.
Your head.

Tom Jones

I had no idea that there is actually no problem at all. Now I feel so much safer for the future of all humanity. How is the view from the Ivory Tower?

Augustus

Kittler, haven't you seen any illiterate Islamic fundamentalist unintegrated immigrants lately? You must have been bird watching instead.

Raymond in DC

I wonder, could Massie have his head deeper in the sand? This piece could as well be titled, as the old Mad Magazine, "What, me worry?" Yet despite his state of denial, the facts suggest otherwise.

Yes, in some (not all) European Muslim communities, the fertility rate is dropping, but among the non-Muslim population it's dropping even faster. The demographic trends are working against the non-Muslim population. And despite the lax adherence to sharia by many, the number who subscribe to more radical Islam is actually growing.

It was only last week we learned that several public pools are instituting Muslim modesty standards on *all* swimmers so as, you know, not to "offend" the Muslims. Prisons expending money to reorient toilets so as not to face Mecca. Banks that no longer offer piggy banks. And a steady stream of radical imams entering the country while Geert Wilders is kept out.

Finally, for any to suggest that "halal" meat is just a superset of ordinary meat is to miss the point. It means that halal providers are given preferential treatment, which violates rules of free competition. Kosher meat is a superset of halal, yet I presume he wouldn't argue that kosher meat should be provided instead.

M.C. van der Weele

Dear Sir Alex Massie,
Please take the effort to read! I have two books for you and will give you the ISBN #09787141-2-1 and
#978-0-9547835-8-7 (pbk).
The first book's titel: "Global Jihad", the second Faith, "Power and Territory", both books written by Patric Sookhedeo, an internationally ackowledged expert on Muslim-Christian relationships for 40 years. After reading I like to hear you again.

Verity

David Blackburn, where is my post of around four or five hours ago, in which I was answering the "points", made by an apologist for the attitude of some Muslims resident in our country?