In search of an intifada
Around the time of the last French riots, I had a friendly exchange with Fred Siegel, City Journal contributor and biographer of Rudy Giuliani, regarding the "intifada" which some American conservatives claimed had broken out in France's housing estates. Fred e-mailed again this week, asking if the latest violence had made me reconsider:
I want to suggest that the back and forth we had last year on whether there was an intifada brewing in the banlieues seems to be resolving in a yes direction. If so it presents a clear challenge to Sarkozy's reign.
Well, I still haven't come across any firm evidence. As far as I can see (I'm an interested bystander, not an expert) the new bout of theorising is limited to the usual suspects. Front Page, for instance, is banging the drum in its inimitable style:
The Muslim immigrant "youths" in the banlieues have taken to the streets to expand a Western front in the global jihad...The present violence we are seeing in France and elsewhere is undeniably the Muslim Brotherhood’s "Civilization-Jihadist Process" at work.
Michelle Malkin files her report under the category of "jihadists", influenced, perhaps by Pajamas Media's exciteable correspondent, Nidra Poller and her talk of a "punk jihad". Instapundit takes first prize for inanity with a post on the "Paris intifada" which ends with the line: "The French haven't taken this seriously enough. Perhaps they should ask this guy for advice." Follow the link to "this guy" and you find a dispatch from Michael Totten in, er, Fallujah. No wonder I stopped reading Glenn Reynolds a long, long time ago.
Martin Peretz, meanwhile, thinks the youths in the banlieue ought to just get on their "bicyclettes": "They are rioting against France and the French who had the temerity to expect that immigrants come to a country to live the lives of those who receive them." Ah, all so simple, isn't it? He also links approvingly to a New York blogger at Jewcy.com who begins a sentence with the immortal words, "I’m not saying the rioters are jihadists, but..." A classic.
None of this is to say there's not a threat from Islamism. But for the time being, I'll continue to put my trust in wicked MSM organs such as The Economist. There's also an interesting, multi-faceted discussion in the comments at Charles Bremner's Times blog. A lot to trawl through there, including delinquency, unemployment, police tactics, bad urban planning and a culture of low expectations.
UPDATE: As he's mentioned in the comments below, Reuters journalist Tom Heneghan examines the issue in a lengthy post at the FaithWorld blog. A must-read.
[Pic: A man passes the broken window of a shop in Villiers-le-Bel, outside Paris. Credit: Thomas CoexAFP/Getty Images.]
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Tom Heneghan
November 30th, 2007 6:11pmI'm glad to see you adding a voice of reason to this debate. My take on it is at the Reuters FaithWorld blog -- "Why we don't call them "Muslim riots" in Paris suburbs."
J. M.
December 2nd, 2007 1:26pmSo the question is whether the banlieues resemble NYC's Crown Heights or Rodney King LA - or if there is also a significant religious-ideological component in the rioters'sentiments. The intifada-ist interpretation might well be wrong, but Clive is wrong to think that the MSM would not softpedal such sentiments if they were there (cf. Heneghan's piece - which has the tone of an MSM spokesperson defending its conventional wisdom). After all, when 17 jihadists were arrested in a plot to bomb targets in Canada, the Toronto Star ran this story: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20060604TorontoStar.jpg "They represent broad strata of our community .... it's hard to find a common denominator"
JTC
December 3rd, 2007 4:08am"None of this is to say there's not a threat from Islamism." Oh. Well, good for you. Nice CYA.
Patrick Carroll
December 3rd, 2007 4:10amKeep whistling past the graveyard. About 10 years out, or so, we in the US will be watching with some disinterest as your new Muslim overlords hang gays from cranes.
Richard B
December 3rd, 2007 4:47amuhhh, yeah...let's not overreact, folks. Just move along please,move along. That's right, nothing to see here. And just ignore the rabble-rousers over there. No reason to be alarmed at all. Everything is under...control...
Texpat
December 3rd, 2007 5:59amClive, must we really resort to trust in the wicked MSM organs like The Economist ? That is the best you have to offer ? " Well, I still haven't come across any firm evidence. As far as I can see (I'm an interested bystander, not an expert) the new bout of theorising is limited to the usual suspects." Really ? Eventually the interested bystander will also receive the baseball bat, the iron bar and Molotov in the car window. My God, what a bloody, crashing boor you are, Davis. Hopefully there will be others in your profession with the genuine courage to bring real light to bear on this crisis.
ERF
December 3rd, 2007 9:37amClive, you should stop defending your previous views and take a look at what is happening in France now. The sooner you do, the less ridiculous you will become. Oh, and you should resume reading Instapundit straight away.
Ron J
December 3rd, 2007 2:02pmI see an ostrich and he has his head buried in the sand. Hope that works ok for you...
Kevin
December 3rd, 2007 2:38pmHow did you know Glenn Reynolds said, "The French haven't taken this seriously enough. Perhaps they should ask this guy for advice" if you stopped reading him long, long ago?
Tom Heneghan
December 16th, 2007 9:55amIt looks like this thread has run its course and none of the "intifada theorists" commenting here have given convincing evidence for their underlying view that religion is driving this unrest in France and Muslims are by definition a jihadist threat. It's very easy to say "keep whistling past the graveyard" or "take a look at what is happening in France now" or "I see an ostrich and he has his head buried in the sand"? Coming up with convincing proof for the assumptions behind those words is a lot harder. None of these "intifada theorists" seem to want to go there. I wonder why.