The Palin pick

Ray

It's a daring move. But as you say, James, she is one mighty inexperienced hand who is just a heartbeat away from the presidency - and at 72 years old, McCain's heart is well and truly in its twilight years!
I can't help thinking that had McCain wanted a women on the ticket who can dazzle conservative Republicans (and balance out the antagonism of that particular constituency prompted by his own forthright views on immigration and overseas interventionism) it's a pity that Condolezza Rice was not to hand.

Old Hack

Condy would have been a safer bet, but she may have overshadowed McCain in so much as people may well ask why she did not run for President. Besides which, she'd be a good bipartisan cabinet appointment if the one won.

This appointment will certainly raise the significance of the veep race. Let's hope Palin is a good attack dog as she will certainly garner attention.

Rush-is-Right

Inexperience. Inexperience? You have to be joking. Sarah Palin is more qualified to be President (not just VP) than any of Obama, Biden or McCain.

She has after all actually run something. She is a state Governor for goodness sake. Oh and by the way, unlike Hilary, she is not married to a crook.

I think she is an inspired choice who will bring back the Republican and Conservative grass roots support that McCain was always going to struggle to reach.

Plus she's a babe!

Ian C

Very few Americans' "prime concern" is national security. More that their president is safe on national security and something special on domestic affairs. US elections are about domestic matters first and foremost.

His risk is with National Security and that has clearly been specifically calculated by McCain and his team. The basis of that calculation will begin to unfold next week and in the run up to the election.

Old Hand - Condi would have been a disastrous choice. She has not only been as big a disappointment as the Bush White House, she has gone native at the State Department -the biggest part of the establishment that needs outsiders to go in and shake it vigorously.

JONNY

It's a mad mad choice, and shows terrible judgement on McCain's part. If the word judgement is indeed appropriate at all.
So let's move ahead 6 months.
Let's suppose the new President is in intensive care.
A crisis blows up of Cuban missile proportions.
Question: who would you prefer to pick up the White House phone at 3.am?
1. Sarah Palin
2. Joe Biden.

I'd say that's a no-brainer.

Asa

Oh fantastic, choose a woman whose rabid views include believing that abortionists should practically be strung up.

You know (unlike Hillary) she is actually against affirmative action for women?

She ain't that progressive...just a redneck.

TrevorH

Experience?

Just what experience does anyone have when applying for the job of president of the United States?

Of course once you have garnered the 'experience' all you then get is criticism.

Why does everybody bang on about 'experience when the real word should be 'character'.

Bush can be criticised 43 different ways till Christmas, but when a Senate Committee recommended withdrawal from Iraq Bush displayed his character and ordered the 'surge'.

Who has the character to deal with loony Putin? No contest.

Austin Barry

"Question: who would you prefer to pick up the White House phone at 3.am?
1. Sarah Palin
2. Joe Biden."

I'm just glad it won't be Brown or Milipede.

Rob

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. As this sinks in after the predictable hype of the convention McCain's recklessness will start to hurt him however excited political insiders on the right try to sell the idea of a reforming Republican ticket. That won't register compared to the lack of judgement shown by the pick itself.
McCain had met Palin precisely once before picking her and this fact alongside the very real prospect that a man in his 70s with a history of cancer makes the "heartbeat away" issue more real than for any such pick since 1996 (Dole chose the experienced nationally known Jack Kemp) McCain's choice blends arogance with stupidity and is reason enough to lose him the election.
This is only undercut by the widely aserted but incorrect asertion of equivalence between Palin and the man leading the Democratic ticket Barack Obama. This is superficially convincing but doesn't stand up to scrutiny for three reasons: first Obama has spent four years in the Senate (longer and more senior than Palin's governorship of Alaska); second Obama has experience gained in one of the great cities of the United States - Chicago trumps Wasilla; third and arguably most important Obama has demonstrated that he is a serious thinker about all the big issues at home and abroad (whether you agree with him or otherwise) and is one of the greatest political communicators in living memory (hardly insignificant in a President).

With this pick McCain has blown it.

Craig Strachan

You seem to accept the assertion from the McCain campaign that Palin took on the corrupt Alaskan establishment. I really think you need to do a bit of digging on that. Everyone else will be!

Der Senator

The response so far from the Democratic establishment has been little short of hysterical. This has really thrown them for a loop. Poor Paul Begala was apoplectic last night on Larry King, and Barbara Boxer's PR machine sent me an e-mail this morning wailing about why McCain didn't pick KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (who they used to refer to lovingly as "Senator Barbie Doll") instead.

Hilarious. By which I mean transparently hypocritical.

Remains to be seen how well Governor Palin performs over the next 60 days, but the McCain camp is to be applauded for throwing the Dems seriously off their game over the past 24 hours.

Meanwhile, I'm still rewatching Bill Clinton's convention speech and cursing the 22nd Amendment.

Marian C

Rob

Typical nonsense from another ridiculous Obamamite voter;
“Most important Obama has demonstrated that he is a serious thinker about all the big issues at home and abroad (whether you agree with him or otherwise) and is one of the greatest political communicators in living memory (hardly insignificant in a President).”

Don’t me laugh, Obama a ‘serious thinker’; the man is a donkey; he doesn’t even know how many states there are in his own country LOL. He (Obama) chose as his VP a man who is more renown for plagiarism than for anything else; ergo that shows that Biden can’t think for himself if he has to copy (speeches / part of speeches etc) from the likes of Neil Kinnock!!! For Gods sake, if he had any brains at all, which apparently he hasn’t, then surely he would have chosen to plagiarise from someone who had something sensible to say.
You also seem to forget, you’re comparing Obama who is running for President with Sarah Palin who clearly is not, she has merely been chosen as a running mate – VP for John McCain & the Republican Party. Therefore, your comparison should be either Obama Vs McCain or Biden Vs Palin, not Obama Vs Palin This all sounds very much like the Democrats are running very scared, as they know, that those voters who were undecided about whether or not they should vote for Obama e.g. Hilary supporters, will in all likelihood now vote for McCain.
Obama should have chosen Hillary as his running mate if he wanted to ensure his win at the next election; but no, he chooses Biden who has made it known on TV interviews in the past that Obama has little to no experience and is not ready to be President!!, talk about shoot yourself in your own foot. So don’t tell me he is a ‘serious thinker’, he clearly is NOT.
Finally with regard to your comment

“that a man in his 70s with a history of cancer makes the "heartbeat away" issue more real”.

Yet again another load of absolute nonsense, age doesn’t inhibit him from running for President of the United States and making sensible decisions for your country; how old do you think Churchill was!!!
As for ‘history of cancer’, anybody at any age can suffer from cancer, it is not reserved only to those who are 70+ males running for President of the USA. As I understand it, he suffered skin cancer, easily curable if caught in time; also there are many young people <70 yrs who also suffer from skin cancer due to over exposure to the sun. Therefore, I cannot see how that can be relevant. It would also appear that you are convinced that a) John McCain will win the election and b) that you are also more concerned that if McCain does win and does ‘pop his clogs’ that you would then have a woman President!!!

David Lindsay

She campaigned for Buchanan in 1996 and 2000. Mind you, Taki's Magazine is not too impressed: "People seem to be missing the fact that this is a classic, Rovian appease-the-base choice."

Well, I sincerely hope that either party is America still has a base which, like Buchanan, sees the neocons for what they are (old Trots, simply going about it by different means), and says so.

A base which, like Buchanan, is right about family values (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about strictly limited and strictly legal immigration (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about "free" trade (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about constitutional checks and balances (strongly shared by Obama's black base), right about real national security (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about energy independence (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about real environmental responsibility, right about Second Amendment rights and responsibilities (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about Civil Rights (not "affirmative action", and in those terms (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton, as well as by a growing number of blacks who see the Hispanics getting AA these days), right about America as an English-speaking country (very, very strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about foreign policy realism, and at least open to the Biblico-Patristic critique of Americanism itself.

But not a base which, like Buchanan, is wrong about the protection of workers and consumers (although he is not terribly badly wrong on that one these days), wrong about fair tax (likewise), wrong about universal health care, wrong about Social Security, and wrong about Civil Rights (in the sense that he still makes occasional rhetorical flourishes towards the remaining George Wallace Tendency, not they are ever going to get anywhere now). Still, you can't be a "fiscal conservative" in Alaska. It's Alaska. Where Palin has also been a good friend of the indigenous peoples.

I'm still backing Obama, but Palin, though certainly not McCain, is looking better and better, not least for the Democratic Party in the long run: it needs to become once again the party that reaches out to, and represents, those who will be and are being attracted to Palin.

Verity

Ray - save your blethering. She is not inexperienced. She has been a politician all her life. When she was Mayor Wasila, she LOWERED TAXES - everyone's kind of mayor - and brought new investment into the city and pumped up the city's revenues. She is Governor of America's largest state - did you know that? Bigger than Texas, even? - for two years and has already closed down the corrupt 'bridge to nowhere project', sold off a state government-owned jet that she figured was being used to ferry people round on non-official business and tightened up the whole system.

She has also put in place programmes to improve the lot, and the future of the young, of Alaska's indigenous peoples.

She negotiates with oil companies, pussycats every one, for drilling rights; balances the needs of the nation with the need to conserve Alaska; negotiates on a national level with foreign governments for oil rights. And so on and so on and so on.

Did you know Alaska is 23 miles from Russia? Do you think there may be a lot of extra military that we know nothing about, but the Governor knows?

I think, Ray, that you have somehow misunderstood the role of an American governor. You may imagine that it is something like mayor, for example. Or a sort of glorified MP.

The governor is the chief executive of a state. To all your compatriots who fretted when the fringes of Katrinca hit New Orleans, 'Oh, there's George Bush in the air-conditioned White House, doubtless lolling around in a silk dressing gown, and he can't even be bothered to send in federal troops to help those poor homeless, sweltering souls in Louisiana. What a horrible man!", here's the news: An American president has no control over a state. He is the head of the United States. The states are essentially independent countries that have banded together. He cannot send troops into a state without the express permission of the chief executive, the governor, of the state. Louisiana's Governor Blanco said "no" on two occasions when Bush called begging her to let the troops in (he had them kitted out and ready to roll) and twice THE GOVERNOR said 'no'. She hadn't finished divvying up the new building contracts with her corrupt mates. Finally, she took fright, and on the third phone call, gave her permission.

Finally, Ray, McCain wanted Sarah Palin, not Condoleeza Rice. Women are not interchangeable. He wanted what Sarah brings to the table, whch is pretty darned formidable. Plus, you may have missed this over the last eight years, but Condoleezza Rice is not a politician. She has never stood for elected office which tells us, in such a strong, determined person, that she doesn't have a taste for it otherwise she'd have done it. She's an academic and a political appointee.

Sarah Payne has been standing for office - and winning - all her adult life. She's a seasoned, successful politician and a very fine person.

Verity

Looks like McCain has just thrown Obama and Biden under the bus.

Trafalgar

Sarah Payne? So little known that even Verity has got her name wrong.

Rob

Marian - you either choose to misunderstand or don't follow me correctly (let's say it's the latter which is my fault) So . .
Obama as serious thinker: that you clearly disagree with him doesn't change the fact that he has thought seriously about the big issues facing the world. you don't like his conclusions but must concede he has taken the time and effort to reach some.
His Biden pick is hardly evidence of unseriousness - again you clearly dislike Biden. His plagiarism was twenty years ago and you clearly think it disqualifies him presumably because he ripped off Kinnock who you also dislike. Not really an argument of any substance that one.
as for the comparison itself I make it, as I explained, because it will be made by Republicans countering Democratic critcism of Palin's inexperience.
On McCain, age & illness: it is very eccentric to think that the important and always legitimate question of the fitness of a VP nominee to assume the Presidency is all the more important when the ticket is headed by a 72 year old with or without a history of illness. Be serious.
finally - I expect Obama to win all the more now this has happened and your baseless assertion that my real problem is that Palin is a woman is insulting and pathetic. Just so you know, I think Hilary would be a great choice for President.

Verity

Typo. I've been spelling it correctly for the last three weeks - long before you had even heard of her.

Categorising the Vice Presidential candidate for the Republican Party as "little known" is rather fanciful, doncha think?

Verity

Rob C - Impossible to stay awake through this thicket of predictable prose. Rob clearly has no idea of the international exposure Sarah Palin has as the governor of the biggest oil state in the United States.

And Rob, remember when your boy went to Germany on some dream that it was 40 years ago and Berlin was still a focus of the West? And he gave a speech in English, which had a translator translating into headphones off-camera because the crowd didn't speak English and didn't give a stuff anyway, having come for the free post-speech concert and beer? Renmember during the same trip, he was going to visit wounded US troops in a US military hospital in Germany?

And then he found out he couldn't take TV crews and cameras in? (It's a hospital, for God's sake!) And couldn't take a horde of press and still photographers to record his compassion for the folks back home?

So he cancelled?

Did you know that Sarah Palin, several months before this, had made a private, unannounced trip to a German military hospital to visit wounded Reserves from Alaska? She didn't try to take anyone in with her. She was content with just the military photographer. She visited with the bedbound and mixed around with the ambulatory. She joined them for breakfast.

Then she left as quietly as she had arrived.

There are photos, but Pete of this parish thinks they may be copyright. Too bad, because they are quite telling.

Verity

Incidentally, Trafalgar, I was the first person on this blog to tip Sarah Palin - two or three weeks ago.

Craig Strachan

Verity:
"When she was Mayor Wasila, she LOWERED TAXES - everyone's kind of mayor - and brought new investment into the city and pumped up the city's revenues"

Well, her biggest project as mayor was probably the $15m Wasilla Sports Complex, the development of which was badly mismanaged. Incredibly, it was built on land the city didn't even own. Palin tried to use eminent domain (very unlibertarian move) to grab the land after the fact. When that failed - as any truly rugged Alaskan individualist must have known it would - the landowner could name his price. The city of Wasilla is still paying it.

rush-is-right

@Rob I expect Obama to win all the more now this has happened and your baseless assertion that my real problem is that Palin is a woman is insulting and pathetic. Just so you know, I think Hilary would be a great choice for President.

Well we will see. I think your guy is going to go down in a landslide.

Verity

Craig Strachan. Fine. If you think anyone is going to research your claims, you are off your brain.

You happen to know these "facts", do you, that McCain's political vetting team were somehow naive enough to miss? Wow!

On second thoughts, yawn.

Carly

Here is the rational we are being told to accept:

That it's ok to have an inexperienced MALE President but not ok to have an inexperienced FEMALE Vice President.

This is SEXIST hypocrisy! There is a gender split going on here, a lot of women I have spoken to have welcomed Palin joining the race it seems to be men with the problem.

Carol-Ann

When people questioned Obama's experience or lack there of, it was portrayed as a euphemism for his race and declared racist. Yet the same people are now throwing this accusation at Gov. Palin, yet no-one says it's sexist.

ndm

Brad Plumer of the New Republic guts the idea that Sarah Palin opposed the bridge to nowhere:

Here's what she told the Anchorage Daily News on October 22, 2006, during the race for the governor's seat (via Nexis):

5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.

Alaska may be America's largest state but it also has less people than Birmingham. Two years ago Sarah Palin was mayor of a town with 7000 people. There are probably housing estates in Birmingham with more people. Propelling her to the second highest office in the United States is irresponsible and shows a lack of seriousness.

Marian C

Rob@ 6:38 - No I have not misunderstood you at all. You say he ‘has thought seriously about the big issues facing the world’ absolute tosh, what proof do you have to back this statement? Certainly you cannot have concluded this from his wind bag speeches. From what I and many others can see is, he did one world wind trip across Europe, a visit to Iraq, but failed to go and see the truly brave injured American soldiers because he could take his entourage of photographers / reports with him! The man should be ashamed of himself. Surely you’re not saying that these visits, or lack thereof have enabled him to understand ‘the big issues facing the world’; if that is true, then that is certainly pathetic statement. When I’ve seen him asked direct questions on any subject he comes across as a bumbling idiot.

As for your comment re: Biden ‘His plagiarism was twenty years ago’, so that makes it o.k. does it? Well it shouldn’t, its shows he’s been a cheat in the past and therefore an untrustworthy character; the fact that it was twenty years ago is neither here not there.

It would appear that you have a problem with John McCain’s age, but not Biden’s, well lets face it, Biden is not exactly in his first flush of youth either.

As for “I expect Obama to win all the more”; well if I was a betting person, which I am not, but if I was, I certainly wouldn’t lay money on that outcome.

Finally, "and your baseless assertion that my real problem is that Palin is a woman is insulting and pathetic", it’s not insulting and pathetic at all, it’s how it comes across, whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

However, I would agree Hillary would have been a better choice for the Democrats, not merely because she was a woman, but because she far more experienced politician and I do believe that she really wants to bring about a real change for the better; cannot say I believe the same of Obama.

Hysteria

any dispassionate review of Palin's qualifictions (across both personal and profesional spheres) shows her to be a great choice. Madam President in 2012..............

Craig Strachan

Verity: Yes, I absolutely do think there will be plenty of people researching Palin's tenure as mayor of Wasilla. In fact I'm sure evey hotel room in town will be booked. Both of them.

BTW the story about the Wasilla Sports Complex was on the Daily Kos today and has also been in the Anchorage Daily News.

But do you really think that - post Kelo vs City of New London - libertarians and libertarian-inclined Republicans are going to yawn at Palin's abuse of private property rights, even if you do?

Verity

Craig Strachan, revealer of truths, knows things that Senator McCain's vetting team failed to uncover - yet Craig Strachan found them on Kos! - clever boy! - you are an obsessive and a bore. You are dripping with hatred. The Reps are going to spoil everything for dreamboy, whose past is such an open book. Who remembers him saying, live, this, "Well, the House Banking Committee - that my Committee - and let me tell you what we've done."

This was met by looks of astonishment on the faces of senators who really are on the House Banking Committee.

Obama believes he should be president because, well, he just should. The man's a poseur and a jerk, and passé at that. He can always go back to Chicago. Maybe they held his old job as "Community Advisor" open for him.

To take up Marian C's theme - not that she didn't do a very good job herself, but what kind of a defence of an inexperienced presidential candidate who's been in national politics all of two-and-a-half years, is this: He ‘has thought seriously about the big issues facing the world’

So has every adolescent in every 6th form common room and similar all over the world. So what? Think away! (But he's still only been in national politics for two-and-half years, most of it devoted to running for president. What a joke.)

Rob

Marian -
On Obama having thought through the issues - I get the feeling we won't agree on this because you are fixated on the mertis or otherwise (otherwise in your mind) of his conclusions and therefore unwilling to accept that he has even really considered them. i am simply making the point that he is a person of more experience (4 years in the Senate) and substance than Palin because unlike her he actually holds views on these issues. The only reason such a comparison arises is because Republicans will counter criticisms of the irresponsibile Palin pick with Obama's place on the Democratic ticket.

But I am wasting my breath because you think he's a "donkey" and an "idiot". You know what? It didn't feel that way at Invesco field on Thursday night but me and the other 79,999 people must just be dumb to even take him seriously let alone support him.

On Biden's plaigarism: I applaud your high-minded approach that says that there is no room for forgiveness or time healing such misdemeanours. So much so that this piece of speech copying disqualifies him as VP. i trust you'll apply the same standard to McCain (Keating Five scandal etc.) and your hero Palin (very recent misuse of power to settle family scores).

I don't have "a problem" with McCain's age. I simply point out the obvious and uncontestable fact that his age is relevant to any discussion of his VP nominee.

As for the outcome - we'll see.

Finally, again, you accused me of sexism because "it’s how it comes across, whether you like it or not is irrelevant." So the accusation isn't based on any evidence just a feeling, some sort of exercise in reading between the lines that can't be supported by anything I've said.

So, by the same token, I could read your comments on the "idiot" and "donkey" that is Barack Obama and infer, get a feeling that, sense, your real problem is the idea that a black man might be President?

Except, in truth, I have no reason to believe that's how you feel any more than you can make your insulting claim regarding me.

Marian C

Rob

I’m sure you are a really nice person; however, I think we will have to agree to disagree with regards to politics; you’re a Democrat and I’m a Conservative, nothing will change that.
With regards to this comment “your real problem is the idea that a black man might be President?” You are quite wrong, I don’t care one jot what the colour of a person is or is not; I would be more concerned as to whether or not they were up to doing the job. You obviously believe Obama is up to the job and I don’t believe he is; it has nothing to do with race whatsoever, rather the lack of ability

Rob

oh come on marian I explicitly said that I didn't think race was anything to do with your view, just that the logic behind your charge of sexism could be used to level a bogus charge of racism too.
but you knew that.
sure you are a nice person too and agree that some of this is just a different standpoint although some is faulty logic too.
Rob

Verity

Rob - Obama has been in the US Senate for 3 1/2 years, all of it spent to mapping out his further aggrandisement. His record shows that he has spent three and one half years voting "Present", so we can see he feels passionately about issues.

The "racists" - that tiresome, trite, trite, trite word again - here are the ones who don't see Obama as a sleazy man in his own slimy right, because everything is excused by his 50-50 race. (This is just a terrible indictment and harks back to the pre-1900s, when black people were regarded as rather childlike and not responsible for their actions. This is, of course, outrageous, yet it is echoed today, in softer, more allusory terms.)

BTW, just a thought that just occurred ... why did Obama's mother go to Indonesia - surely a very bizarre choice 45 years ago? Hadn't her ex-"husband" decamped to Kenya to gift the world with many little Obongo Hussein Obamas and George Hussein Obamas?

What was she doing in Indonesia?

Craig Strachan

Verity: "What was she doing in Indonesia?"

She had remarried an Indonesian man she met in the U.S. and went to live with him in his home country.

Craig Strachan

Verity: "Craig Strachan, revealer of truths, knows things that Senator McCain's vetting team failed to uncover - yet Craig Strachan found them on Kos! - clever boy! - you are an obsessive and a bore."

Well, McCain's vetting process doesn't appear to have been all that rigorous - it seems McCain met her only once before selecting her to be his VP.

I wouldn't hire a housekeeper on one meeting.

As for the ad hominem stuff - I guess those of us who post here are all obsessive bores about politics to a greater or lesser degree. And no one posts more here than you, Verity!

Marian C

Rob -
“oh come on marian I explicitly said that I didn't think race was anything to do with your view, just that the logic behind your charge of sexism could be used to level a bogus charge of racism too.
but you knew that.
sure you are a nice person too and agree that some of this is just a different standpoint although some is faulty logic too.
Rob”
There is nothing at all wrong with my logic, faulty or otherwise, why, because I disagree with you? Who made you the arbiter of what is rational and logical.
“But I am wasting my breath because you think he's a "donkey" and an "idiot".”
Yes he is indeed a donkey, in more ways than one, and in real terms so are you, being that you are both Democrats and isn’t the donkey the symbol of the Democrats? Therefore, I would be correct in saying that Obama is the biggest donkey of them all, as he leads your party, and just as a true donkey does, he is taking everybody for a ride.
“Infer, get a feeling that, sense, your real problem is the idea that a black man might be President?”
No my real problem is that Obama is unfit to be President for many reason, which I have outlined previously and it wouldn’t matter if he was Asian, White or Polka dot. What really annoys me is that you infer that because I do not agree with Obama’s suitability for President that I therefore must be a racist. You have chosen to wilfully distort a truth about Obama and have twisted it to suit your own agenda. Perhaps, you should be his running mate instead. In fact, if I wanted to use your own logic, then I could say your criticisms of McCain smacks of ageism, after all isn’t that ‘your logic’ that there must be an “ism” involved.
“It didn't feel that way at Invesco field on Thursday night but me and the other 79,999 people must just be dumb to even take him seriously let alone support him”
Only 79,999 turned out? Big wow, there was over a 100,000 people turned out for the new opening of the IKEA (Home Furnishing) store in London! And considering the size of America in comparison to England and the alleged “huge” support Obama has, doesn’t that say so much about his popularity! Maybe all his other supporters were staying at home in anticipation of the unveiling of John McCain’s running mate!

Marian

Rob

Marian - you either can't or don't want to be logical. I didn't accuse of racism just highlighted your own silly accusation. Don't see any point or interest in continuing this discussion.

Marian C

Rob

I have obviously upset you and for that I will unreservedly apologise.

I will also concede that Barack Obama is infinitely more sensible, then our own Prime Minister, Gordon (gormless) Brown, who went on television and stated in the papers that families suffering financial difficulty due to the credit crunch, that they could save at least £8:00 per week if they ate up all their left over food!!! I kid you not, this is absolutely true. Our country is in financial meltdown and the best that our PM can come up with is that we eat our leftovers; God help us all