Labour's confused agenda

Keith

What that total idiot Byers fails to recognise is that the vast majority of people in this country are already slightly more than uncomfortable with the ever increasing role played by the state in their lives. What they want is less intrusion and if that's what Cameron believes in then prepare to join the dole queue Byers!

CS

What is startling about Byers' article is the comments on it which have been left on CiF.

Of about 30 comments so far, all except one have treated Byers with scorn.

Either Guido has mutiple usernames on CiF or the writing really is on the wall for New Labour if even Guardian readers can't bring themselves to loathe Cameron more than they loathe Byers and Brown.

DM

It also depends what role you think government should play in running a country - one that dreams up rules and regulations to interfere and control, or one that facilitates the machinery of everyday life where people can flourish. It's not so much the amount of government that Byers should be focusing on, but the type of government.
eg when people tried to supplement their NHS treatment with expensive private drugs, their NHS treatment had to become private too. A facilitating government would not penalise someone prepared to pay privately (off NHS limits) for more.
eg there needs to be a rubbish collection system according to what local people need, not money spent on a camera system to spy on what they throw away.

I suppose I think the nudge nudge approach works better than the penalty fine.

Ted Tedford

If only Mr Cameron *were* an old-style Tory with anti-State instincts. I see no evidence of this at the moment.

David C

The agenda is not confused.
I'm sure that Brown would like to look back on an unblemished history of sound legislation, lightly implemented for the betterment of all the citizens of the UK.
But Labour is forced to attack the Conservatives on policies they may put forward, because Labour's own record is crumbling before the gaze of an increasingly exasperated electorate.
NuLabour does what it does out of necessity, not out of choice.
The Party is bankrupt, politically, morally and financially.

C Powell

What we now have is an active, interfering, bossy and bullying state. It is a state which spies on its citizens and makes rules solely for the purpose of imposing fines but is incapable of providing real protection to its citizens from crime; it is a state which demands ever more personal information and is then utterly negligent in its care of that same information. It is a state which demands more and more money from people but is then incapable of spending that money wisely or on what people want. It is a state which people are beginning to fear - as well as despise. By all means let's have a debate about the role the state should play in our lives. If Milburn thinks that is a debate which Labour will win given the state Labour has created, he's living on La-La Land. If the Tories really do believe in small government - in small but effective government - and tell us the actions they will take to make it a reality, good - though, as I've said on previous threads, we are still waiting for the Tories to show any evidence of thought on this topic.

Steve Garner

Cameron's use of the NHS for his son's treatment gives the lie to Byers' central assertion. And you're right, Labour should use its energy trying to govern better instead of attacking the Tories.

Nicholas

Too late for a debate, Byers. New Labour has already established a new relationship between citizens and the state. The clue is in the words "citizens" and "state". You are authoritarian with totalitarian tendencies, you treat adults like children - no, actually, worse than children because you have empowered children to act as your covert spying agents. You have dismantled or destroyed the traditional rights and freedoms enjoyed by Britons for centuries. You have undermined the democratic workings of parliament. You have sought to govern by spin, deceit and propaganda. You have put party and personal image before the good of the country. Your rotten regime has been disastrous for Britain.

And your stupid attacks against Cameron and the Conservatives are irrelevant, unwarranted, unwanted and not part of the responsibilities of government. They do show quite clearly, however, your self-serving party political agenda and disregard for the people of Britain. You should feel ashamed and embarrassed using government time and tax payers money to engage in thinly veiled pre-election campaigning instead of actually tackling the horrendous mess you and your kind have created.

I hope your behaviour as a government comes under independent scrutiny and legal challenge. I hope that each and every one of you is prosecuted to the full measure of the law for your abuse of privilege, misuse of taxpayers money, gerrymandering and corruption of the impartiality of the civil service.

We want no more "debate", no more "consultation". We just want you to go away forever. As soon as possible please.

Nick Kaplan

Oh how I wish for the day when Steven Byers’s comment would be met with the response “well in that case Cameron has won my vote.” One thing I really love about American politics is how conservatives can speak openly about the moral need to reduce the size of the state and, instead of being met with widespread contempt from a predominantly left-wing/condescending media (Who the public is far to influenced by), is seen as commitment to the ideals of America by the ordinary voter.

Liz Brown

If this govt was positively active and enabling, I might be in some agreement with Byers - however, this is not the case, the Govt is hyperactive and totally disabling.....take us OUT of Yurop and bring back small govt

Chuck Unsworth

Farcical comment from 'Mr Integrity' Byers.

PSJ

We can't yet know what Cameron will be like in government, but we know that Byers was a total disgrace. His idea of the "relationship between citizens and state" was endless spin and an utter lack of any form of measurable achievement. He had to resign in disgrace, and quite right too. Overall, he should go away. If this site wasn't moderated, I'd have written something stronget.

GS London

"a debate will be had," is to Labour to what "something must be done," is to the Liberals.

I've never seen an organized debate between two representatives: the American Presidential candidate debate is an excellent model and should be adopted here, instead of confused backstabbing and misinformation.

Chris

"Cameron is an old-style Conservative who is deeply uncomfortable with the state playing any role in our lives..." No armed forces, no police? Twat.

Tom

Someone at the Guardian has a sense of humour: publishing an article by Stephen Byers on September 11...A good day to bury bad news.

Verity

"Labour should use its energy try to govern instead of attacking the Tories." says Steve Garner.

No thanks. As long as they're just fiddling around attacking the Tories, they are perpetrating no lasting harm on our Constitution.

Nicholas says, in a telling phrase, the socialists "govern by deceit". Sinister and correct.

"it is a state which demands ever more personal information and is then utterly negligent in its care of that same information." You might have added "and uses information for sinister, Staziesque purposes."

jon dee

Im surprised at The Guardian giving space to Stephen Byers.His flimsy views suit an MP desperately seeking publicity. Hopefully his mendacious record will be fully recognised on North Tyneside at the next election.

Ian C

Bring on the debate about the role of the state, Mr Byers. I agree: that is precisely the debate that needs to be had bewteen the side that wants people to run their own lives and money and thssoe who think they can do it better for them but call it 'social justice'.

That is the main theme behind the discussions in the current Presidential Election in the USA. Bring it on here. NOW.

J H Holloway

I'm surprised Byers is sticking his oar in. The PWC investiagtion into the collapse of MG Rover is three years old and there's no sign of a result. That's because it will find Byers -then minister in charge - to be a first class fool, who ignored the trouble Rover Group was in under BMW ownership.

When BMW announced the sell-off, he panicked and forced BMW to hand the business, 70,000 cars, the factory, the engine factory and £500m cash to four local clowns, two of whom had been sacked from senior Rover positions by BMW.

But then PWC won't be reporting on MGR until July 2010 on the orders of Gordo, so Byers won't get his comeupance.

Ironic somebody who made such a huge botch of 'active and enabling government' should still be so keen on it.

C Powell

Verity: you're right, I could have added a lot of things but then it wouldn't be a comment but an essay. I do hope the Spectator and Tory politicians do take note of these comments and try and address them. Much as I loathe Labour and want rid of them I'm becoming increasingly less hopeful that we will get any sort of change for the better.

Fergus Pickering

Any change would be a change for the better don't you think?