Indebted Britain

Peter Mills

You are very articulate and erudite Fraser, keep it coming, in every media, please.

glenlivet guy

Fraser you are right to a degree..but still you under estimate the real problem ...if you add on the pension liabilities of all those public sector employees recruited over the last 12 years plus all those who were employed but have seen massive salry increases... mostly folk who will retire at 60 on index linked final salary pensions, Brown has single handedly dstroyed any change of a good quality of life for our children and maybe our grandchildren if their parents work in the private sector or are self employed

Ray

If, after all this, that man ever mentions the word 'prudence' again, he should be strung up from the nearest lamp column.

Pete

Until somebody manages to put this across to the public at large, better than GB and his spin team, in a message they can understand via a few spin bytes then Brown may emerge from this as an economic messiah that helped save the global economy.

We need a leader that will spell out clearly, in simple terms, what the problem is, how it has arised and what action is needed to sort things out.

If anything, I think the volatillity of the polls show that everybody is desperately looking for a strong leader.

Tory silence on this merely confirms that Brown is the best man.

Nicholas

But until the Labour-bolstering BBC actually report the truth instead of suppressing it Brown will continue to be cast by them as the saviour of the economy. He and his rotten party don't deserve 1% of the votes.

Fraser Nelson

glenlivet guy, you're right about importance of public sector pension liabilities (PSPL). But there is no financial comparison, anywhere, so it would serve to obscure the point. I work out in my News of the World column today that if you add all the debt - inc NR & PSPL - it comes out at something like £65k per UK household.

Verity

Glenlivet Guy - I have been arguing over on The Wall, on this blog, this week for the removal of the franchise from the entire public sector and the welfare sector.

Frank Pulley

Nicholas

Succinct, pithy, and spot on, as ever. I entirely agree. Might I add that Sky isn't much better these days. Is St Rupe of Wogga-Wogga still backing Brown? Or has just retired with his billions and given the hacks a free hand? His press and TV empire seems to be all over the shop politically at the moment.

Lord Elvis of Paisley

Problem? There is no problem. Gordon unveils his new economic rescue plan as set ut below

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tONz1gBpS3c/SN6x77aT0mI/AAAAAAAAAjo/OreMlYBrVNU/s1600-h/Brown+Economic+Plan.JPG

http://wwwjohn-m-ward.blogspot.com/

Nick

On Radio 4's Any Questions Chris Bryant took the attack to the Tories by saying that they were just as much to blame for economic profligacy and our current economic mess as Labour because the Tories had been "cheering on from the sidelines" as banks issued more and more sub-prime mortgages and personal debt levels went through the roof. Bryant pointed out that left to the Tories own devices the situation would have been even worse as they would have implemented the Redwood/Osbourne plan to remove any regulations on mortgages at all. Chris Grayling's response to this somewhat mendacious accusation wasn't entirely convincing and judging by the Radio 4 audience's response holding the Tories equally responsible with Labour seemed to have a lot of traction with the public. The Tories really have to articulate a clearer message if they are not to get spun by the Labour machine as equally culpable for the forthcoming recession however unfair this may be.

mitch

Stick another 50billion on for the B&B.

David

I think the tories are mainly holding fire until nearer election time. Quite right too, Brown is still one of the Tories' best assets.

Chuck Unsworth

Nice piece, Fraser.

Do me a favour and sort out the typos etc "Conservative cuts plans to cut" and lambast was spelled differently in my schooldays.

Nonetheless, your (and the Times') point is very well made. Brown has mortgaged the country and everyone in it to the hilt. It will take a decade before this damage is undone.

As I have said before in this forum - and as others have commented - we need absolute understanding as to our financial position. Brown will never reveal that, it is up to the Conservatives to lay it on the line. If they do so clearly, the Labour Party is finished for generations.

Lance Grundy

An additional problem, particularly acute in Britain [and I’ve mentioned this before] is the problem of the terrifying levels of unsecured personal debt being carried by people under 30 years of age. An entire generation have been brought up in a society that has encouraged them to get into as much debt as possible to have ‘what they want, when they want it.’

These spendthrift youngsters, devoid of assets, are up to their eyeballs in debt and, I suspect, a significant proportion of them now have such appalling credit histories that they will never be able to get a mortgage. Even those that can will be unable to afford even relatively low monthly payments and still service their other debts and pay their household bills. This is a middle class phenomenon as much as a working class one and is bound to further acerbate the housing crash as the pool of credit-worthy, potential first-time buyers shrinks by the day.

Most commentators appear to have given the matter little thought or, if they have, have concluded that the numbers of young people in this situation are too small to significantly affect the economy. I disagree. I think it spells the start of a long-term erosion in the quality and quantity of first-time buyers - making a recovery in the housing market unlikely anytime soon regardless of what happens with interest rates. Alarm bells should be ringing but they’re not. What thinks you, Fraser?

Marian C

I agree with all the above, what is needed is to bring the 'red top newspapers' on side and let them spell it out to their readers, that’s the way to ensure their votes. I would also make it abundantly clear to the BBC that when, not if, the Conservatives gained power, that one of their first tasks would be to break up the BBC, sell it off in chunks, and the licence fee (if kept) would be shared out amongst other broadcasters. That would get their attention!

Most people in this country are absolutely cheesed off with this government (I know I am) and they are fed up of the lies, higher taxes and loss of freedom and they want true leadership, not some milk and water sops (so to speak). It time the Conservatives became more vocal and more right wing; if people don’t see this, they may very well choose to vote for the BNP or another party of that ilk, or may very well stick with Labour (heaven forbid

Pete Hoskin

Chuck Unsworth: 'cuts' typo corrected now - thanks for the spot.

But both 'lambaste' and 'lambast' are fine:

http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=lambaste&title=21st

Chuck Unsworth

Pete,

And you use Chambers? Bloody hell. Each to his own, I guess. Still, they say it's curable now....

Verity

Marian C - What possible justification for keeping the licence fee is there? I do not understand this mentality. Even if you share it out among other channels, WHY HAVE IT? Do we have a fee for buying and using an iron? Is there a fee for buying and using a dishwasher? It is laughable that the British think you have to pay an annual fee for having a household appliance.

How is it American TV networks thrive and make billions - and spend billions on developing new shows that get taken up all over the world - without the taxpayer contributing one thin dime?

I would say abolish the licence fee on the first day in office, but better to abolish the BBC. Shut it down. Clear it out. Sell off whatever assets it has and return them to the Exchequer. Finished. Goodbye. Adios. Au revoir. Adieu. Gone.

For those who say, "Oh, but the BBC does do some good things ..." you are like beaten dogs, loyal to your master who abuses you. If they do such great things, like them form a company and do those great things with privately raised capital.

Marian C

Verity - “Marian C - What possible justification for keeping the licence fee is there? I do not understand this mentality”

Quite so, I totally agree with you Verity, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever to keep the licence fee at all. However, my point was that if it was kept, for whatever reason, then it should be shared out amongst the ‘other’ broadcasting organisation and not purely for the BBC as it currently is. As I stated in my post, I feel that ‘one of their first tasks would be to break up the BBC, sell it off in chunks’, which I think we would both agree upon.

Nick Kaplan

Nick; the accusation is of course completely ludicrous. The Tories did not argue to abolish regulation, what they did argue for was different regulation. Considering the regulation we do have in place has failed spectacularly the Tories should now be arguing that the current crisis confirms that they were correct. The fact is that the heavy handed regulation that Labour did put in place is part of the reason why this crisis has got so out of hand. All the banks were forced to adopted the same business model when different routes were closed off to them by government imposed rules. This stopped banks being willing to lend to each other when it all went belly up which ultimately resulted in the first run on a bank in 150 years and then its nationalisation. If Labour had actually listened to Redwood’s plan which was to give the BoE a supervisory role over the banking sector this crisis may not have happened and certainly would not have been so severe. The Tories must make the argument that it is better to put experts like Mervyn King in charge of regulation as opposed to electioneering politicians and power-crazed bureaucrats.

TGF UKIP

On the raw politics of this Pete and Nick are absolutely right. The Tories are like a pack of poodles taking on the Labour rottweilers.

Brown lies and lies and lies and why wouldn't he, when the Tories show absolutely zero interest in challenging him or his collaborators in the BBC.

Hadrian

Fraser once more spotlights the core of the crunch problem. And frankly it has never been that hard to grasp. Mrs T. used to say as a housewife she understood economics perfectly well in trying to run a home and avoid debt. There's the heart of the matter: if we insist in living beyond our means one day it'll all rear up and bite us hard. Dead simple old fashioned tory doctrine of thrift. Noe we'll just need to adjust to more frugal living. Probably do many of us the world of good.
As for Fraser's typos, well, we all make them, even the most pedantic of us. Forgive the boy a few solecisms in the heat of his creative productivity and genius!