Osborne's Quango could be used to counter the tax-cutters

Paul B

Im with you Fraser- the less you tax (directly via income tax) the harder they work,and the less inclined they are to look for every scheme to avod paying taxes, its basic human nature. The governenment eventually get the money via increased spending by the individual-the important point to note being that the individual decides on what he/she spends his/her money on- not the state.

Frank P

Get off to bed Fraser, there will be no Peroni left for tomorrow.

jr

Don't be fooled by Osborne. He is a complete opportunist. All he is interested in is power, as is Cameron. He's spinning you about himself. He's supported much worse than this. You just had to be there when he said it.

David

The problem is, Fraser, is that when the economy was doing well you demanded tax cuts, and now the economy is doing badly you demand tax cuts. This lack of any nuanced position makes it hard to take your views seriously.

GS London

If I were to take your money away from you, then give it to someone else (who you didn't know), and he/she gave a bit of it back to you, you'd forget being defrauded of your cash in the first place and be overwhelmingly pleased that someone somewhere is handing out free cash. This is the myth of Tax credits, and one which has been successfully exploited by Labour.

It's a psychological thing, and takes a form of devious engineering to perfect. This is what the tories are dealing with: redefining the psychology of money.

RobertD

The real issues are which kind of tax cuts act best to stimulate the economy and generate investment and growth and are the cuts made when people can respond by increasing their economic activity.

Top of the list for me would be Corporation tax to attract new companies into the UK; Employers NI to encourage extra employment; and capital gains tax on active investments (offset if necessary by restoring the higher rates on passive investments like second homes.)

If there is more money in the kitty a cut in VAT reduce some of the pressure on consumers and help limit the number of retailers going out of business.

These need to be done now not in 2 years time when the economy is trashed beyond recovery, with major corporations gone offshore and entrepreneurs demoralised and bankrupt.

David Bouvier

David - if the economy is over-taxed perhaps tax cuts are a good idea.

I doubt Fraser was asking for tax cuts to moderate the Brown bubble.

Forlornehope

What is needed is a comprehensive overhaul taking in both personal and corporate taxation. This has to address the fiction of National Insurance, which is both additional income tax and a tax on employment, pensions both public and private, benefits, which effectively create a ridiculous marginal rate, and, of course, corporation tax (this is of course linked to employers' NI payments). Out of this could, and should, come a dramatically simplified system that encourages hard work, saving and enterprise, protects the genuinely unfortunate and costs a great deal less to administer.

The problem is that this could not possibly be done with a "no losers" requirement. So, "if it were done when ‘tis done, then ‘twere well it were done quickly". We can only hope that the Tories have done the necessary staff work, because if they haven't they won't have time to do it in office.

Beside this challenge, the exact rates come into the category of fine tuning. One area where everyone seems to agree that we are badly behind the Laffer curve is at the lower end of the earnings scale. It could be argued that this is a far more urgent, and possibly more important issue than at the top.

Bob Tizer

For heavens sake, all you lovers of taxing the people of this country to death - WE'VE HAD ENOUGH - ENOUGH - JUST CUT OUR BLOODY TAXES

Ian C

Tax cuts are best used where they are needed to reduce/remove obvious disincentives. It is noteworthy that the worst disincentives, towards the end of Labour period in government, that the worst disincentives exist at the bottom end of the income scale.

Not only is it noteworthy, it is scandalous. And shown themselves up to be the most mendacious, cynical bunch of self-serving champagne socialists of a sort you would not have thought could possibly exist.

Nicholas

jr: "Don't be fooled by Osborne. He is a complete opportunist. All he is interested in is power, as is Cameron. He's spinning you about himself."

I see that with the Tory conference in full swing the New Labour blog monitoring unit (paid for by my taxes no doubt) is also in full swing. Out and about undermining DC and leaving as many Tory-damaging wordbites on as many blogs as they can.

So, jr, my little socialist troll, Gordon Brown and his gang of useless incompetents are not opportunists in it for power and spinning like there was no tomorrow (which there isn't for them)?

Damon

David,

When the economy was growing I wanted to keep more of my own money, now the economy is shrinking I still want to be able to keep more of my own money. Supporting tax cuts in both scenarios is a perfectly rational position to take

Frank Pulley

Fraser

Who truncated my post at 3.23am?
When I posted it, it read, "Get off to bed Fraser, there will be no Peroni left for tomorrow.
But I suppose you could always share Andrew's Blue Nun but don't get into the habit."

It wasn't that excruciating was it? And if he uses it on Thursday evening, I'll claim a copyright fee.

TGF UKIP

Frank Pulley, any mention of Andrew Neil in any even slightly derogatory or piss-taking way is verboten. As for the Barclays, don't even think about it, Matthew will simply re-write it.

TGF UKIP

Fraser, we're seriously in danger of agreeing here. It's not just no tax cuts full stop, that get's me so pissed off with Dave and his gang, it is their unwillingness to make the basic conservative case for tax cuts.

Too often in recent times when Tories (and many Coffee Housers) do talk about tax it is always on a social justice basis, particularly advancing the notion that the lowest earners should be taken out of taxation altogether - something with which I cannot altogether agree on a taxation/representation basis.

From a promotion of growth and enterprise viewpoint, cutting the taxes of a business owner earning £150k pa is far more likely to be beneficial than cutting the taxes of his employee earning £15k pa.

Taxes should be cut for all on the basis of returning citizens' own money to them but proper conservatives should not shirk from making the supply side arguments.