Beware a confused message

Water

When you want confused look at Nu-lab this is just a difference of opinion, the thought put forth by the authority counts, the authority is David Cameron. Of course this can be elaborated upon, but as cafes permit one does.

Nicholas

There is a real danger that this Conservative "toe in the water" "nibbling" looks more like opportunism than serious policies and will also create more confusion about their narrative, which is still not simple or clear enough.

So many of the published pictures of Cameron make him look either worried or puzzled. That does not help the image.

John Page

They appear confused because they are - scared to say anything definite and stick with it.

TGF UKIP

Alastair Campbell must be laughing his cock off at all this nuanced politics. Dilettante politics by lazy,unprofessional dilettante politicians.

Dave may be Blue Labour to hiscore except, though, when it comes to its professionalism as propagandists.

You tell em what you've got to tell em than you tell em again and then you tell em what you told em, and then you tell em again and all in short words with CAPITAL LETTERS.

Far too unsophisticated and tabloid for the Notting Hill crowd.

TrevorsDen

For gawds sake GROW UP Mr Hoskin.

If your going to quibble of every god-damn sentence said by every member of the shadow cabinet then you will be here forever tying yourself in knots.

You could for instance concentrate on Brown promising an end to spin but delivering nothing else but ever since he said it.

Too much to expect you to concentrate on the important things.

ChrisD

Beware the confused message from our political media would be more apt these days.
What about the shocking comments from Quentin Davies yesterday? There was quite a follow up debate at Defence questions in the HoC today.

Or the Treasury committee meeting which had Mervyn King and Alastair Darling under the spotlight?

I have just read about Iain Martin's odd piece on Osborne,
Which is totally the opposite of what another well known journalist was reporting recently on the very same subject when it was more relevant. What is it with this trivial naval gazing when there are some really important news items around?

Ray

Politicians should not dictate BBC salaries - granted. However, politicians do have a duty to set the TV licence fee according to what voters will accept and can afford.

Therefore, if the BBC is paying its executives such ridiculous salaries then the politicians can safely assume there is no need to raise the licence fee, irrespective of whether BBC bosses are squealing poverty.

strapworld

trevors den..If you do not coordinate the message you do tend to confuse. It is a basic rule of PR.

Cameron is confusing everyone and needs help urgently. It is obvious to me that he is losing it.

You attack those of us who are desperate to get rid of Brown. You just do not ignore incompetence of those you wish to support. You Highlight it. Sadly I am more convinced that Cameron is no leader and we are destined for more years of Brown and Co....god forbid.

But please dont get your knickers in a twist. Just consider that we are on the same side! but think differently.

Hysteria

where's my post of , what - four hours ago ?

Tiberius

TrevorsD: one can only assume that the journos wish to play devil's advocate somrtimes.

Politics really does feel on hold at the moment with the US election, the jackstraws of the banking game still in the air, and the polls stuck in hung Parliament territory. Anyone who thinks they can map out a route with any confidence through the current fog is fooling themselves.

James H

Everyone accepts (it seems) that the electorate are sick of spin. A crucial element of that is, I reckon, the insistence on giving simple (and simplistic) answers to fundamentally complex questions. I think most people recognise this.

Yes, simple messages come across more easily and clearly, but that is not to say that nuance is necessarily unappreciated by voters.

And if it is really so easy to simply communicate nuance- just how should the party be doing it?!

TGF UKIP

I wonder, though, Tiberius, whether you detect a serious slippage in the Tory position over the weeks since the party conferences.

The Tories, when Gordon seemed to be all but politically dead, had a large but soft and geographically patchy opinion poll lead. It was a lead that could have been consolidated by a clear and conviction inspired message particularly on the economy which had long been rapidly deteriorating. Unfortunately, though, clear and conviction inspired messages are not what your boys are about lest they "frighten the horses" or "deluge the voters with doubt."

Since the Labour conference it seems that Gordon has grabbed the political initiative, has almost unbelieveably been allowed to reinforce it over the economic crisis and now has the political momentum firmly in his grasp.

Parallel to this it seems that he has been reminded (by Campbell and Mandelson?) of the basic original practices of New Labour - relentless news management with simple messages and images endlessly repeated.

The real slippage seems to me, though, to be in press perceptions. From it being odds on Dave, with him with all to lose, it now seems that even the Tory press, including, incredibly the fanzine, are growing increasingly frustrated and even angry with Dave's inability to construct a populist narrative and wrest the initiative back from Gordon instead of him being allowed to get away with political murder.

I guess at the centre of this is not only Dave but your other mate Boy George who really must be the most unconvincing ever occupant of the role of Shadow Chancellor.

It may well be Tiberius, that your complacency and your faith in Dave really are invincible but aren't even you getting to be a little concerned?

Paul Lettan

It is important to understand the difference between 'narrative' and 'discourse'. Narrative is authorial, top down and closed: this is the line to take. Discourse is open, egalitarian and conversational. Boris gets it! Pace his support for Obama. Does Dave? Some days yes, some days no. The neo-lib-cons are patients being chased by the men in white coats.

Fergus Pickering

I thought Cameron's piece in TYhe Sun was excellent and I thought he was very good on The World at One. Some of you lot are a bit crazy, no? What do you want him to say? Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminate! Study Barack Obama and think on.

john

Strapworld

We know you're Derek Draper, but I admit you're quite plausible. Give my regards to Ali Campbell.

ChrisD

"Study Barack Obama and think on."

Fergus, spot on with that comment!
Watching the increasingly tetchy right wing press in the UK throw the baby out with the bath water because Cameron and Osborne are not dancing to their tune over the last couple of weeks has been interesting. Only Danny Finkelstein seems to have got it!

Its been a sight to behold when you are standing outside the Westminster bubble looking on.
Watching the last 24 hours of frenetic campaigning in the USA between Obama and McCain, I realised that all the same criticism directed at Cameron and Osborne has been chucked at Obama by the right wing press and the McCain camp over the last few months....

Makes you think, hope that the Tory leadership have got the steely determination to stick to their own strategy rather than dance to the tune of someone else's. Whether it be the New Labour tribute band, or the jumped up media who have so far over the last month proved how out of touch they are with the ordinary voters.
Have we finally got a Tory front bench team that are tough enough not to buckle under the onslaught from the usual suspects in their own party and in the media?
I hope so.

Henry Rogers

TGF,

"...slippage..."

You may already have seen Mike Smithson's piece over at Political Betting on the way polls and media narrative are currently out of step. If not, it's interesting enough to spend a few minutes on. Do I detect an element of wishfull thinking in your post? Apologies if that was not your intention.

Water

Well the Tories as a whole can not be blamed in putting out a mixed message because they have not. A subordinate within the party has made a comment that conflicts with the leader, hardly the end of the party…let’s not be dramatic.

Furthermore all politics is opportunism, optimising the greatest opportunity in your favour is it not (though I only say this in rebuttal I made no such inference with lieu to the article).

As for saying the man looks confused, looks can be very deceiving; behaviourism isn't a doctrine to which I ascribe.

Nicholas

Water, I did not comment that the message was "mixed" but rather confused and not clear. I might also have added "marginalised". That is not due entirely to the Tories but also to the way the Tory small stuff is being hashed by the media. The media is reporting Brown's Big Lies simplistically and largely without challenge but out comes the microscope with the negative slides on everything the Tories do or say. In that respect their message or narrative is at a disadvantage to begin with. Of course Tory supporters can see the woods for the trees but it is the GBP that needs illuminating and the polls suggest that is just not happening.

Politics may be opportunism but it is a scaleable opportunism. It is one thing to seize political opportunities to accomplish big wins and quite another to jump on relatively small and transient bandwagons. Currently there are not even any Big Lies coming from the Tories, let alone Big Truths. Do you think Brown would have risked his "not even organised for opposition" remark in PMQs if there were not a general sense that the Tories are losing it?

My reference to Cameron looking puzzled or worried (I did not use "confused") was about his image - not the man himself. During PMQs he often sits frowning and looking perplexed when Brown is blustering and he is often broadcast doing so. It is not a good image for a political leader who should be representing optimism, radiating positive energy and offering a real alternative to the national socialists. What he says, how it is reported and how he appears are three quite different things. At the moment the Tories are concentrated on the first and appear to be disregarding the second and third. As they are now up against the most devious and accomplished spin machine in the history of British politics that seems a risky omission.

Tiberius

No complacency, TGF, but a recognition of the mountain Cameron or any other Tory leader has to face. We all know about media and constituency boundary bias, as well as Brown setting up the client state (Heffer's term) consisting of voters being bribed with their own money. And as I have said before, I have little faith in the British electorate knowing what is good or bad for it.

Not so long ago, Portillo still thought the Tories might never win another election. Abbott never thought the Tories would win next time because of the sheer size of the statstical swing required.

This is why I have always maintained that Cameron will do well to get a 30 majority. So, no, I am not particularly concerned nor complacent about the polling you refer to. But I do not think Davis, Fox, Redwood, Pickles or Hague would have been able to get the Tories even into 30 majority territory. Hence my continued support for Cameron (and Osborne).

Water

Hey Nicholas the first paragraph was alluding to the article and in relation to the word 'mixed' not you, though the latter two where with reference to yourself.

As for jumping on band wagons, of course, but my point was simply that politics is opportunism (and I am glad you agree). Though as for seizing every opportunity (seemingly transient or otherwise) it can pay dividends. For after all something seemingly transient can turn into something of paramount importance 'tis a life of leads which turn to truth if sometimes perused.

As for your comment on lies and what have you I mentioned no such thing but appreciate your opinion.

Lastly with reference to the last paragraph that's right you did use the word "puzzled" but when a person looks puzzled they do often look confused.

Good day.

Hysteria

Again an enlightening series of posts and commentary - the concern for me is that the messaging is so important that the right really need to articulate, in simple words, why their approach and that of the national socialists, is wrong.

BTW - I like the increasing use of this term to describe New Labour - indeed this is an example of what some of us are alluding to - simple messages that will resonate.

Right now, on both sides of the Atlantic, the arguments of the right - self reliance, wealth generation, care for others on a local community basis, smaller government etc. etc. are all being lost amid an anodyne meaningless noise of "change we can believe in" - including even the Dear Leader (amazingly).

I really fear that we will be forced into a repeat of the efforts and struggles of previous generations, as liberal socialist appeals to dialogue simply will not cut any ice with those who would oppose us.

Being here in the US I will watch the results with a faint spark of hope that at least the Chosen One does not get a landslide - but I fear the worst of results for POTUS, House and Senate.