PMQs live blog
Peter Hoskin 11:48amAnd so back to the relative drudgery of Westminster politics with Coffee House's live blog of PMQs. Not that Obama's election victory won't feature in the to-and-fro between our party leaders - as Ben Brogan reveals, Brown's going to use the opportunity to continue casting Obama as a "fellow progressive" rather than one of those pesky novices. And what else? Well, I wouldn't be too surprised if our PM makes a lot out of his Saving the World dash around the Middle East - whilst Cameron's goal will be to undermine that narrative. All will be revealed from 1200 onwards.
1204: Brown starts with condolences for fallen British troops, and congratulations for Barack Obama. "The Government looks forward to working with the new administration". Also refers to the "dignity" of John McCain.
1206: Question from John Leech on congestion charge referendum in Manchester. Brown: "In the event of a 'No' vote, it would be the job of local authorities in Manchester to work out a revised proposition."
1208: Kate Hoey on Zimbabawe.
1209: Here's Cameron. Pushes Obama as a change candidate. A gag: "I read that the PM sent the President elect a message this morning. I hope it wasn't this is 'no time for a novice'" Brown responds, rather limply: "What I said was that 'this is a serious time, for serious people.'" This is all a bit flat, despite the jeers from either side.
1210: Cameron gets in an effective dig about the appointment of Peter Mandelson "burying change".
1211: Cameron on the European Commission's claim that Britain will experience a worse recession that many other developed economy. Good line of attack - undermines Brown's "we're better prepared..." claim.
1213: Cameron's pushing the European Commission attack. Good. Brown wheels out the tractor production statistics, so Cameron moves onto debt: "You cannot build the New Jerusalem on a mountain of debt".
1216: Cameron asks Brown whether there'll be an enquiry into regulatory failure - as Paul Myners suggested. Brown denies that Myners ever said that. Cameron supples the Myners quote which proves he did.
1217: Cameron: "The public are asking how much longer must we put up with more of the same failure." Brown drags it back to Obama, although he does deploy the word "change". The PM's response: "The reason the American people voted for change is because they wanted progressive politics." Not sure how much this will work for Brown - cf. the Guardian's leader from a couple of months ago, in which they claimed that Tory policy can now be regarded as "progressive".
1219: Clegg now. Congratulates Obama, and launches into his (worthwhile) "tax cuts for low-income earners" message. It is the policy of Obama, he says, why not the policy of this Labour government? Brown redeploys the old "Tory cuts" line, only he replaces the word "Tory" with "Lib Dem"
1222: Brown hopes to meet with Obama soon.
1225: In response to a backbench question on troop numbers in Iraq, Brown says that there will be a "change" (there's that word again) in our troops' role next year. John Hutton hinted earlier this week that there'd be an announcement on this soon.
1227: Important question from Gerald Howarth on the troop deaths due to the use of Snatch Land Rovers. Can the PM confirm that the these military didn't have a choice other than to use these vehicles? Brown trots out statistics on the upgrade of military equipment that was annoucned recently.
1230: Dennis Skinner asks about the global economic situation. Allows Brown to refer to his trip to the Middle East.
1233: Brown goes on the attack about the NHS: "The Conservatives are clearly not interested in the future of the NHS. We created it, and we are."
1234: That's it.
VERDICT: Much of this PMQs was a rhetorical battle to cast Obama as either an agent of (as Brown would have it) "progressive, centre-left policies" or as an agent of "change". Whilst he didn't score a deadly blow, Cameron got the better of these exchanges - and rightly centred his attack around the European Commission's recession finding. Clegg pushed on with his effective tax cut message. A shame that he's getting the same "investment vs cuts" treatment that the Tories have had from Brown for the past decade.
Previous
Stephen
November 5th, 2008 12:15pm Report this commentCameron has to stop saying "you". The speaker is being very generous in letting him off with it, but these rules are part of the decorum of the house and it doesnt do Cameron any credit that he refuses to follow the rules.
Hatstand
November 5th, 2008 1:01pm Report this commentPerhaps describing Brown as 'the honourable gentleman' would stick in his craw: it certainly would in mine.
Nicholas
November 5th, 2008 1:11pm Report this commentI couldn't watch it. The disgust I feel for Brown and his government of all the numpties has reached tipping point.
Travis Bickle
November 5th, 2008 1:14pm Report this commentRighto, the economy in shreds, the main culprit strutting around like some sort of superhero and the biggest issue is how Cameron addresses Brown. (the speaker being "generous" because he lets the PM get away with so much every week)
Give me strength.
Nicholas
November 5th, 2008 1:18pm Report this commentO/T but Blears attack on political blogs, her actual words revealed by spin ahead of her speech to Hansard, ought to be of interest to the Speccie's Coffee House crew? See Guido who has written a full rebuttal.
With her role in "community cohesion" the views are sinister and echo Burnham's recent attack on the unregulated freedom of internet speech. This must be the next Labour civil liberties target. A softening up barrage to prepare the way for Labour's mythical "public opinion" on internet control. It is the one genre where New Labour lies don't work.
I hope that one of your correspondents will post a dedicated comment about this.
Alex
November 5th, 2008 1:29pm Report this commentStephen - he hardly deserves the title 'honourable gentleman' does he?
Anyway, I'm ashamed I've joined in this ... aren't there not more important matters to address, rather than how Brown is addressed?
Oscar
November 5th, 2008 1:37pm Report this commentI only saw the end of PMQs but Brown looked positively funereal. Maybe he'd just read the latest opinion polls for Glenrothes.
Dalesman
November 5th, 2008 1:39pm Report this commentCameron needs to learn that repeating the same questions does not work.
All it does it let Brown keep repeating the same old lies (this week about our debt).
And why doesn't Brown ever look across the House, he always looks at the Speaker, dare he not look Cameron in the eye? He comes across as extremely ignorant (which maybe he is).
DM
November 5th, 2008 1:46pm Report this commentI thought Cameron did better today. He has a list of Brownies to nail in these exchanges, today's being that Britain is well placed, compared with others, to weather the world financial crisis.
However Cameron must yet nail the one about levels of public debt - Brown continues to boast that it is lower than when the Tories were in power. Cameron needs an effective come back on that one for the next time. He tends to let that pass; similarly re his own role in Black Wednesday.
It's not hard to predict Brown's lines on the economy as he uses the same ones all the time, but they must be torn apart and proved worthless and so there's more work for the Tories to do here at PMQ (which - like it or not - is what makes the news bulletins.)
PS Isn't it cringeworthy how they all try to exploit Obama's victory to their own ends?
Lord Elvis of Paisley
November 5th, 2008 1:51pm Report this commentDalesman, completely agree and is something I blogged about myself just the other week
http://lordelvis.blogspot.com/2008/10/cameron-needs-to-employ-scattergun.html
Ellie
November 5th, 2008 2:11pm Report this commentBrown appeared to lack confidence today. He stuttered and stumbled and didn't bother trying to sound as though he believed what he was saying. Something must have knocked him back - perhaps the Polls from Glenrothes.
On Daily Politics Nick Robinson said: Gordon Brown was confident and told a good joke. Then the presenter said Gordon Brown looked confident and told a good joke. Then an email came in saying: Gordon Brown looked confident and told a joke. I think I can see a pattern emerging. In the absence of confidence and good jokes attempts are being made to brainwash us into believing the opposite.
CS
November 5th, 2008 2:18pm Report this comment***Cameron needs an effective come back on that one for the next time.***
Alas, DM, "you lying bastard" is deemed unparliamentary language.
DM
November 5th, 2008 2:30pm Report this commentCS Pity. (It's what I utter at home though)
Thom Pride
November 5th, 2008 2:49pm Report this commentI am beginning to wonder if Cameron should give up even a pretence of wrapping his points within a question. Brown almost never responds with a reply phrased as an answer; let alone an answer to the question put to him.
Let Cameron get up, make the point, take as long as he likes, and sit down. Only ever do it four or five times and take away the opportunity for Brown’s final prepared rant “the opposition is opposing”.
BTW, I might be wrong (and I am not going to watch it again to be certain), was not Cameron’s “you” addressed to the Labour benches in general and not Brown in particular?
Water
November 5th, 2008 4:27pm Report this commentThere are types of gentlemen I dare say. There is the way he is seen, the way he is interpreted, mentioning but a few angles (and the way that he actually is). I have no resentment for Gordon it's just that it is time for looking at the policies and ideas put forth if they are insufficient cut them loose via means of your vote and democratic voice, blogging is a gift for that. Also I love politics on this side is adored.
michael m
November 5th, 2008 4:41pm Report this commentThis is the second time in 3 weeks that the Speaker has allowed Denis Skinner the last question, clearly so that Brown can get the last word in. I am amazed that no mention of the Gold Reserves - yesterday's Lords debate refers.
Cameron should not let "Brown the ditherer" go by the board- it was Brown who dithered for the last two years as Chancellor when all the signs were that credit was out of control- at 11.59pm he was forced to act and look at the result.
This is the arsonist who having set his high rise mountain of debt on fire is now turned fireman on a Towering Inferno.
RH
November 5th, 2008 5:33pm Report this commentBrown's argument of Libdem/Tory cuts is surely one that advocates never ending spending and consequent debt. This will eventually bankrupt the country but Clegg and Cameron continually fail to make this point.
Stephen
November 5th, 2008 6:06pm Report this commentAgree with Thom that Cameron's "you" referred to the labour benches.
Of course that is also against parliamentary rules.
That is why the speaker smiled and replied, he was not responsible. You always refers to the speaker, since comments are directed toward him or her.
It's not worth getting worked up about, but if Cameron doesnt want to get his points bogged down in arguments about parliamenary process, then he simply shouldnt break the conventions.
It's his own fault if this happens, noone elses.
toni
November 5th, 2008 10:22pm Report this comment"On Daily Politics Nick Robinson said: Gordon Brown was confident and told a good joke. Then the presenter said Gordon Brown looked confident and told a good joke. Then an email came in saying: Gordon Brown looked confident and told a joke. I think I can see a pattern emerging. In the absence of confidence and good jokes attempts are being made to brainwash us into believing the opposite"
Ellie. I thought GB was confident and told a good joke, took the questions in his stride, outdid Cameron, looked very smart (neat hair new suit? and not at all funereal) and did a good job.
You getting the picture yet?
Hint – maybe it’s you?
What a shame that Nicholas doesn’t watch any more, just when the PM’s doing so well, and commentators are right to report that Cameron’s repetitive questioning is so silly – wake up! and to remember his manners in the House.
Also jutting red face and finger stabbing isn’t a good look. Just trying to be helpful.
Rhoda Klapp
November 6th, 2008 2:29pm Report this commentHow about if the tory idiots made Brown's evasions an issue. A constitutional issue, that PMQs are a time for him to answer a few questions, rather than a silly ritual of chidish displays overseen by a corrupt and partial speaker. It would help if organs like to Spectator did not treat it all as if it mattered, as if the has to be winning and a losing side, when what happens is we the electorate are the losers every week, and the people we pay to do things just treat us like suckers.
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