Always honest?

Joe

I am afraid I agree with Brown on this. It's perfectly respectable, indeed I would say more accurate, to describe debt without NR etc added on.

David Shield

Fraser - Can I suggest that you take over the job of the official HM Opposition. Or if you have not got the time perhaps the official opposition might like to hammer home the above points at every available opportunity. Get the MPs on the airwaves to counter the lies that are being told by the government eg 10 tax debacle is now a tax cut!! They might also like to mention who the British architect of this is! Whilst everyone appears to be concerned about borrowers the opposition might like to recognise that there is a lot of political mileage in supporting savers who outnumber borrowers by 6 to 1 (Yes I am a saver for all the good its is going to do my family). How many open goals do they want - they will never be forgiven if we have to stand another 5 years of this government.

Travis Bickle

Somehow the non-introduction of proposed tax cuts, ie VED, is also likely to count as a "tax cut". And the media let him get away with it........

golfwidow

Fraser, this must surely rank as the biggest "brownie" to date! It's the Brown equivalent of his predecessor's claim to be " a pretty straight sort of guy".
I also share your frustration with the constant references to the £120 "tax cut" and with journalists' collective failure to challenge him on this.
Well done, James Landale, for picking up on Brown's "as well" when talking about unfunded tax cuts.
And finally, did anyone count the number of times Brown used the words "global", "international" and "worldwide"? The unending attempt to disassociate himself from any blame for the current situation is breathtakingly pathetic.

Hereford

The machine rolls on. Unchecked by any aggressive opposition. Unchecked by the press, who can't be bothered to test facts. He will continue to lie Fraser, until there is a significant negative consequence to it.

I remember watching a television broadcast of you raising this lie at a meeting where Prescott was present. You were shouted down by him and completely unsupported by those around you.

The machine has gotten too big to stop. We will have to wait for it to implode, eventually. As it did in the Soviet Union.

Jonathan

Fraser - Why can't the Spectator get you into one of these press conferences so you could challenge Brown directly ?

Evan

New Labour have moved on from the Dodgy Dossier to the Shaky Statistics ans Nonsense Numbers.

Alex R

(a) when was he honest with the people that house prices could go down as well as up. When did he act as our early warning system? He didn't.

(b) In PMQs last week, he said that we should be considering both public and private debt together. So why is he now just considering public debt?

(c) Brown knows he can get away with lying because it would be unimaginable for the BBC to say the PM is a lier (especially post Hutton) and Brown knows this.

John

Joe is in a rapid rebuttal unit somewhere, and I claim my £5.

Armchair

It would be worth Cameron getting suspended from House of Commons just to repeat: that is a lie

jon

Joe, what about PFI? or public sector pension liabilities? Or is off balance sheet ok for government but not for banks as Brown thinks?

Jon

Joe - Can you explain yourself?

Spectator Moderator - with regards to comments such as Joe's, please can you ensure that comments are constructive, rather then empty? This should not be a space for blog trolls.

Dalesman

Why would you expect this man to be honest?
He isn't going to break the habit of a lifetime, is he now?

It's just very unfortunate that the general public don't seem to be getting that message.

Tiberius

"With the Opposition unable to make the attack properly, and the broadcast/home news editors bored by anything with “per cent” after it, Brown can get away with financial murder. And how."

An excellent summary, Fraser, of the skewed media with which the Tories have to battle (I'm assuming when you say "unable" that you don't mean "incapable.)

Brown can only fulfil his agenda by lying, and it is a shame that almost certainly he won't be the guy who has to deal with the consequences of what we in business characterize as "lying to your bank manager". Failing to report the future cash outgoings that off-balance sheet items (like PFI) represent shows Brown up as the incompetent knucklehead that he is, but omitting an on-balance sheet item like NR is beyond parody.

TGF UKIP

Here we go again, Fraser, week in and week out FR identifies brownie after brownie, week in week out your mates let him get away with them unchallenged and week in week out there's a Coffee House chorus saying "where the f are the Tories?"

Dave has got to start mixing it with Gordon on figures. We all know Dave is about words and doesn't do economics but the trouble is that then produces polling figures like today's where not only are Dave and Boy George behind Brown and Darling but Dave himself is 20% adrift of Gordon on leadership for the times.

I know you've said to me in the past that the Tories won't mix it with stats on the media because it turns people off, but there is another dimension too.

As Gordon knows full well the equation is - man who speaketh with figures and jargon is economic heavweight, man who speaketh with slogans and soundbites is PR lightweight.

Dave's distaste for figures and refusal to mix it was evident again at the "tax cuts" news conference this morning when one hack asked about borrowing. Dave simply said borrowing was not at 40% but was higher because NR, B&B, NFI, and pension liabilities were not included. Debt was much higher said Dave. No attempt to ram home just how high in stark figures nor to give that as a debt per household or taxpayer and no attempt to underline the extent of the tax burden required to bring that debt down.

It's not just Dave though, it's the whole lot of them. A week or two back Greening was on Newsnight with Pearson who duly trotted out 43% down to 37% and not a peep of protest came from La Greening. When the Tories don't challenge why on earth should the broadcasters?

You would do a far better job, Fraser, than either of your Precious Pair but as that ain't going to happen and as the Stupid Party is too stupid to dump Dave and his mate the best thing they could do is to invite you in to give a presentation to the Shadow Cabinet on "How to Nail Gordon and his Brownies." Not that the arrogant shits would dream of such a thing of course.

Over the past few weeks there has been serious slippage by the Tories and I believe they can no longer count on going to 2010. As long as Gordon can keep the focus of the economy and as long as Dave keeps Boy George where he is the more tempted Gordon will be.

michael m

Fraser
I am just an ordinary Tory supporter who is becoming increasingly frustrated that no one in the Party appears to be getting across to the public what a fraud Brown is and is direct responsibility for most of our troubles. Is there no one in the Party who can expose this man in just a few words- they should listen again to the recordings of the late Iain Macleod and how he dealt with Wilson- scathing/to the point and honest- get a copy of "In pursuit of Excellence" and give it to each member of the Shadow Cabinet, most of whom appear still to be on holiday or looking after their outside interests- here again Cameron MUSt get tough- how can he expect ordinary supporters to give 100% when his own team are unprepared to?

jon

Sterling tumbles to 12-year low

Check out the headline, in about 18 point, on the FT's redesigned website www.ft.com

Journalists, apart from at the FT and spectator, and the public might believe Brown but the market has spoken.

TrevorsDen

"Get the MPs on the airwaves" ... oh yes and how?? Do you think the BBC are falling over themselves with the notion of giving conservative MPs free publicity?

Grow up.

Brown says the basic rate has gone down £120 -- but not for the poorest. They, at least some of them, are only getting back to somewhere close to where they were before the 10p tax fiasco.

It all just shows how thick Brown thinks we are - and of course in connection with the media he is right.

Browns lies are breathtaking. But he is only going where Blair went before.

But just ignore the %age of GDP that Brown quotes. Get back to the original figure. If the Spectator wants to expose Brown then the validity of the GDP needs to be examined.
GDP may have grown through immigration which has not increased GDP per head at all. GDP may have increased through government spending which is not productive at all. GDP may have increased through unsustainable borrowing - which is why we are in this mess. The GDP basis is not sustainable and needs to be exposed. The flat figure is huge and getting bigger.

Nicholas

Coffee House being monitored by one of New Labour's spy units. First comment is a negative one, of course, from the Rabid Rebuttal Unit.

I'm surprised we haven't seen Punk Economist yet. Oh, hang on, he works for the BBC, Labour's other propaganda service.

THX1138

Oi Jon you don't own this blog we can all write what we like. No one is troll on this site. Anyway if we all agreed with each other it would be oh so dull.

As for politicians lying do bears s**t in the woods.

oldtimer

Of course it is the "Big Lie", so beloved by Goebbels, endlessly repeated - as both you and the Institute of Fiscal Studies (in politer terms) report.

The other "Big Lie" is that this is just a global problem. The problems of Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, HBOS bear a distinctive "Made in the UK" look to me. Of the offending banks that need rescue, only RBS carries the scars of the global problems.

Brown is now hooked on his narrative and has to live with it by fair means and foul - mostly foul. Changing the issue is a favourite ploy. Talk of tax cuts is one such ploy because it diverts attention to the Conservative and Lib Democrats proposals. It would not surprise me one bit if very little emerges from No.11 next week. Global action and Bretton Woods 2 is another diverting issue.

The fact remains that there are no easy or painless solutions to the present problems in the UK. It will take time for the over lending to unwind, during which time many businesses will go bust and many people will be made redundant.

Key indicators to watch out for are the £ exchange rate and the yield curve on government securities. May I suggest, Fraser, that you add these to your ever lengthening check list of warning signs for the government as it contemplates just how it is going to fund this "37%" deficit.

mac

Joe,

I believe, I believe. Your utterly objective analysis convinces me. Just fix an early general election please, so that I have the opportunity to vote for the colossus in No 10.

J H Holloway

Perhaps somebody might point out that national debt is now 43 percent of £600bn, (today's government income), not 43% of £300bn (the government income under the last year of Major).

By my reckoning the cold, hard debt figures are £129bn under Major and £258bn under Brown.

Which could mean more than half of the increase in NHS spending over the last 11 years has been put on the national credit card.

Just what the hell has Brown been doing with this incredible windfall?

George Laird

Dear All

Allow me to explain what Gordon Brown actually meant.

What he meant was that debt was reduced to 37% because he didn’t want to count other debt. This is what I call “special” debt, it is there but it is not really debt.

Kind of like eating prawn crackers, you can eat tons of it but it never really makes an impact on your stomach so you don’t count it as part of the meal.

It is also like the figure for inflation, Britain has a low figure but the public has another. Dual figures are an excellent way for a government to claim people have never had it so good.

Personally speaking if I have never had it so good, I would like people to live my lifestyle, particularly the bit where I cannot turn on the heating for fear of being unable to pay the bill.

Happiness for poor people can sometimes hurt, especially via the letter box!

Some days I get jealous of people locked up.

1/ Free bed.
2/ Free food.
3/ Free tv.
4/ Free dental.
5/ Free medical.
6/ Free educational opportunities.
7/ Free leisure facilities.
8/ Getting letters off to The Times.
9/ Catching up on reading etc.

Anyway back to telling the truth.

“I’m always honest with the British public” said Gordon Brown.

Is this the same guy who said he wouldn’t use his family for political purposes?

Then did!

Another misleading stunt by Brown and his Labour mob was the Glenrothes by-election campaigning on devolved matters in a Westminister by-election.

Professor Curtice described that as a “trick”!

Brown couldn’t fight the seat on his record of disaster so chose not too.

“When will people see tax cuts, asked Bob Roberts from the Daily Mirror. “There’s £120 tax cut this year going to all basic rate taxpayers” he says. Em, wasn’t this to compensate for the 10p tax rise?”

Well spotted Sir.

“It’s dressed up as a tax cut now. Astonishing how Brown can claim to be honest with the public, then proceed to give such a misleading answer. I do wonder if he’s even aware of it”.

I would term such tactics as devious, rather like Brown’s trick of continually announcing the same money as “new” money.

“Dressing up foregone taxes as tax cuts Brown also said that “people have already seen” tax cuts in the decision to raise stamp duty and freezing of fuel duty. The decision not to raise taxes does not equal cutting taxes. Brown hopes journalists will not make this distinction”.

Well, I have bought a Cary Grant movie, Destination Tokyo in it the big aircraft carrier is sunk by an ordinary group of people doing their bit for their country. Come the General Election, we will see ordinary people sinking the pride of New Labour, Gordon Brown in dramatic fashion.

We all cheered when Michael Portillo got two fish (torpedoed) in 1997 and it was the best thing that ever happened to that boy, he changed for the better.

When Gordon Brown hears “high speed screws torpedo in the water”, the nation will be waiting for him to go down and I don’t see ordinary people reaching for the lifebelt to save him.

The article is titled “Always Honest?”, I would have gone with “‘Why so devious?”

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Ps the quote “High speed screws torpedo in the water” is from, “The Hunt for Red October”.

Pete

'As he knows, the political and foreign journalists in that room would not have a copy of the latest ONS press release to hand.'

Fraser, that may well apply to the foreign journos but Nick Robinson? Adam Boulton? I'm bloody sure they are *well* aware of the figures (probably the rest of the UK people there, also). Just what is it that stops them challenging the lies? I'm pretty sure that most of the commenters here would give him a going over a la Paxman v Howard.

Anyone would think Brown paid their wages - cowards!

Ivy Eileen

What was it in "Alice in Wonderland" ? - "Words shall have the meaning I attribute to them. No more, and no less".

Also, isn't Mandelson on the record as having said something to the effect of " The truth doesn't matter. What matters is whether people believe you".