Leaks are the least of the Home Office's problems

Austin Barry

I was amused by Jacqui Smith's reported comment which exemplifies her bovine complacency and fugitive thinking:

"The Metropolitan Police have been completely clear that that arrest happened without either ministerial involvement or authorisation."

Yes, but what about you Jacqui?

adrian drummond

Until the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister give an adequate verbal response to what happened, most people will assume that they were in some way complicit.

The Ashford One

The real worst of this for the Home Office is it either indicts its own Ministers, or has to acknowledge an utter disregard for Parliament.

There is a reason that MPs are protected from arrest in the course of their role as representatives in Parliament.

It's to prevent them being intimidated, and to allow them to ask difficult questions, to hold the Executive to account. An awful lot of English, Welsh, Scots and Irish died to win that right for Parliament. One king was executed, another deposed. But having done it we set up a political system which, if not democratic, meant that we the people would not have to live in fear of our government. Something almost unique in Europe at the time.

There are three scenarios we need to consider.

1) The police told the Home Office they were going to arrest an MP, a Shadow Minister, a member of the Privy Council (and thus entitled to see state documents in any case). The Home Office, knowing this was a big step told the Home Secretary and the PM. Who did nothing. In which case they colluded in this action and fully deserve to be strung up by their thumbs.

2) The police told the Home Office, who saw no need to inform ministers that they were about to arrest an MP. I'd like to think that civil servants aren't this stupid. If they are then heads should roll. Figuratively.

Oh go on then, literally.

3) The police didn't tell the Home Office, despite telling BoJo (as chair of the Met Police Cttee) and David Cameron (leader of the Opposition). In which case, what the hell were the police thinking? And what a shocking indictment of the idea of giving the police 'operational independence' if this is how they use it.

The thing that really concerns me is that none of these scenarios are good. There are dark, sinister elements to them all. How could the police do this without top cover? If they told the Opposition then why not the relevant Ministers? Above all, why aren't Ministers defending Parliament?

liz Brown

Of cure they knew - the question is the "when" - easy to say "do it but just don't tell me beforehand, so that I can then deny it" The whole business stinks and I hope that the MP's will carry out their threat to delay the Queen's Speech. I hope too that someone will finally find the balls (NO, not the "so what one" and pass a vote of No Confidence so that we can have a General Election - oh and whilst I am at it, A Referendum on the Con/Treaty of Lisbon

C Powell

The Tories should publicly announce that unless they get full and complete and timely answers in Parliament to the questions Grieve has raised, they will - when in Government - have a full inquiry into all aspects of this affair.

Labour and all its trolls need to know that this affair will not be allowed to go away. This has got to hang over them as Cook hung "Arms to Iraq" over the Major government. Labour need to be taunted and harried about this at every turn from now until the election.

mac

Sir David Normington apparently includes ballroom dancing amongst his interests. Perhaps he'll have the free time soon to partner the eager Mandelson on Strictly?

Either that or find a seasonal pantomime troupe to join in tandem with his Secretary of State: they'd be perfect together in Cinderella.

Alternatively, Ms Smith's BBC pals could arrange to showcase her talents chairing HIGNFY - it's a comic remit that requires no more than sticking to a prearranged script.

Nicholas

The BBC seem to have buried this story.

The cabinet consists of several former Marxist or Trotskyist extremists who clearly have no regard whatsoever for the traditions of our parliamentary democracy. See comment elsewhere on another thread regarding Brown's "Labour project" (the "New" seems to have been quietly dropped) for Britain.

As with so much Labour change the baby is thrown out with the bathwater. Tried and tested constitutional protocols are subject to their so-called "reform" and quickly become unfit for purpose. It all completely ideological and concerned with thoughts and words rather than deeds. The level of spin, lying, deceit and incompetence is staggering.

Every single uttering of gross-fuhrer Brown now includes an attack on the opposition. Why are this horrible man and his repulsive cronies being allowed to govern in the style of an election campaign?

Drew

Thank goodness McCain lost.

Brown's Britain would have been unable to join the mooted League of Democracies - because from time to time we lock up a legislator, to encourage the others.

teledu

Yes Liz you are right - it stinks, and is another chapter in the erosion of democracy and liberty that zaNUlabour and MugaBrown have overseen.
I'll be very angry (but not surprised) if no heads roll for this. If MugaBrown has any decency, he should make a grovelling apology to Parliament for this outrage, even if he was unaware of it taking place beforehand.
We all sleep a little uneasier in our beds tonight, and it's not down to Islamo-fascists but zaNulabour.

John Levett

This, together with the state-sponsored abuse of Sally Murrer, highlights the main opportunity for the Tory party to convince the electorate to return them to power. However important the economy might be, the continuing erosion of civil liberties and the growth in surveillance and jackboot policing are the greatest threats to British democracy and our way of life.

Hoolio

I find it utterly incredible that the BBC has buried the story. I kind of thought it was worthwhile paying the licence fee for their news coverage even with its blatant Labour bias. But by failing to give any prominence to this story and thereby to hold the Government to account for this grotesque abuse (below Bombay of course), the BBC has to my mind lost all justification for their licence fee.

David Duff

From the autopanegyric of Sir David Normington KCB:

"All my working hours are spent on trying to create a Home Office which has the confidence of the public and in which staff are proud to work. This is the biggest challenge of my career so far. But I believe achieving it is important to the security of the country and to the reputation of the Civil Service."

Way to go, Sir 'Dave'!

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/structure/PSMG/david_normington.asp

TGF UKIP

Nicholas is right. The BBC are legging it away from this as fast as they can. Even last night's Newsnight gave it no more than cursory coverage.

I am, though, a little puzzled by the absence in the comments so far of Martin's role in this. If he was even aware, let alone assenting, of the raid then a motion of No Confidence in him has got to be the first pre-requisite.

The Tory, and particularly the Cameron, response has so far been wholly inadequate. Even the LibDems manage to sound more outraged than them with the sole exception of Douglas Carswell on the Week in Westminster this morning.

The Tories need to recall the seismic reaction there would have been from New Labour if the Tories had done anything like this to them pre-97. Then having imagined that reaction Dave and Co should emulate it.

Roger Davies

Gordon Brown will not give up the office of PM before blood has been let on the streets of London, the man does not have one democratic fiber in his body. He is a closet Communist of the old school and will, if he can, rig the next GE.

Verity

Roger Davis: Quite.

Verity

BTW - it is because Cameron is so bloody spineless that Brown has been emboldened to assault Parliament itself.

Clare

If Speaker Martin didn't know, then he should have done - either way a vote of no confidence is called for.
The beeb is not only not covering the story itself, it is seeking to stop other people discussing in on it's website. The "Have Your Say" comments section is STILL running with measles, wildlife and the high street. Pathetic!

Jeremy

Do you think this arrest might have something to do with the return to political influence of The Ugly Sisters (i.e. Messrs Campbell and Mandelson)?

Jeremy

I can understand that Dave would be very disheartened by the brutish manner of Mr Green's arrest. It is the sort of blow that is intended to hit him at an emotional level. I can understand that Dave would be saddened by the decline in parliamentary standards, saddened by the standard of the current Speaker and saddened by the corruption of our public life. But he should remember that this also demonstrates both the importance of his task and the base, unscrupulous and unprincipled nature of the people he has against him. He must fight. He will fight. And if he fights, then I believe that he will win. I think that Dave has the makings of a great Tory leader - perhaps even of a great national leader. And if the Tory Party holds its nerve (and holds onto him) then it will prevail.

Verity

Clare: when are you people going to wake up and take control?

Your silly comment is "Pathetic!"

Do you seriously not understand that this is not "pathetic" but pathologically insane?