Heads roll in Haringey

Wilhelm

The muslim immigrant doctor who looked at Baby P said he was ok.

The ''doctor'' should be thrown out the country.

GJTory

And how much have these people been paid off to go quietly?

Liz

If it had not been for Cameron bringing this subject up at PMQs 3 weeks ago, I doubt whether there would have been any investigation and all these people would still be in post. There are alot of questions to be answered here not just about the whistleblower who was ignored, but also about the inspection regime that had labelled children's services in Haringey as a 3 star service

TrevorsDen

Lets not forget that Shoesmith has I think and education rather than welfare background.

There has been a political pulling together of education and welfare. Another reform disaster.

Another case of three cheers Gordon.

Bexleyite

Where was OFSTED in the all of this? Didn't they inspect Haringey and report positively? I can't find a single report on their website which refers specifically to Child Protection in Harngey.

Tiberius

Ministerial heads should have rolled too.

I wonder if the investigation would have come this far without Cameron's questioning of Brown.

jean baker

An anonymous child allegedly died on 3 August, statutory front page news as those responsible were allegedly arrested the same day.

Ed Balls gross misjudgment and ineptitude over the SATS fiasco wasted £136 m of taxpayers' money. SATS caused unnecessary stress to teachers and pupils. Instead of being sacked he's 'handling the case notes' of an 'anonymous' child.

There's been strong opposition to government's controversial 'child database' .... Nulabor loathes 'democratic' procedure in it's loathing of any form of opposition. Media spin and manipulation is it's preferred method.

Ivan Dunnow

It really is revolting that you are seeking to make this a party political point, by suggesting that Labour *government* ministers are in some way culpable for local government failures. I have zero idea what, if anything, defines your shrill, low version of Toryism, but please God it's not what defines mine.

bill

A child has died because of the negligence of these people, and all that happens is that they lose their jobs?

No criminal charges?

Verity

Wilhelm - Yes. But the muslim immigrant has only been "suspended" by the BMA. She should have been struck off immediately. And I agree, she should be deported, but only after serving a stretch in the pokey for criminal negligence.

She should also have been forbidden to wear that fright burqa in the presence of little British children. That outfit would scare anyone. Or perhaps her face is even more scarey.

Anyway, we need to freshen the air with her departure from our shores.

JR

I'd gently suggest everyone that have made comments so far reads this article from the today's Guardian - http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/dec/01/child-protection-baby-p-netherlands

I'd love to have the arogance to suggest that everything is so simple and that there is an easy way that this is all resolved and 'accountability' can be served.

Dealing with the most difficult families in any society is horrendously difficult - there are trade offs, there can never be full monitoring of those families and complete monitoring of those doing the monitoring. We can just try and make things a little better and accept there are trade offs - people will continue to make mistakes (and that is as true if you privatised the whole service), children will continue to be killed, children will continue to be taken away from their families unnecesarily. The balance is somewhere there but personally I don't think it will be solved by reactionary wringing of hands.

Jean baker- you seem to want less Government oversight and interference - I agree, but I also accept that this is likely to mean less policing of children's welfare (with the benefit of less intrusion) - you apparently see no contradiction?

Wilhelm - yeah that'll solve everything and make us all feel better won't it?

Bill - have a read of that article. I'm not sure that criminalising mistakes stops them happening?

Tiberius

Ivan: how can it be reasonably argued that ministers are not responsible for local government failures on this or indeed any lesser scale?

George Laird

Dear All

Sharon Shoesmith, the head of children's services at Haringey Council, has been sacked.

I for one believed that Ms. Shoesmith should have had the decency to resign.

Although not one to take personal glee from someone's misfortune, this was the correct decision.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Paul B

Suspension is the right course of action for the Doctor imo Verity. Innocent, until proven, we need to be holding on to values more strongly than ever.

Glad to Shoesmith sacked, its plain she had to go for no other reason than who could have confidence she wouldn`t make the same mistake aqain and that she was the boss and therefore the buck stopped in her office.

The Wilted Rose

Why has the Department for Public Prosecutions and the Met not started legal proceedings against those who have resigned, given their culpability in the death of this child? These people should be arrested, not Damian Green.

Peter

BBC now reporting no-one sacked, but six suspended on full pay.
Beggars belief.

Huw

From what I've seen, the only people who have actually resigned are elected local politicians. The others are merely suspended on full pay. Surely it is time for private sector accountability to apply to the public sector - public servants must be able to be fired and should be so without pensions, compensation, etc.

Andrew Forbes

Actually, Verity and Wilhelm, the doctor has more than a little of my sympathy. Most doctors can't tell what's wrong with a child except by discussing symptoms with the parent. If the parent is lying and covering up injuries, the doctor is very likely to diagnose wrongly.

I am not a doctor, only a parent.

The Dandiprat

Yup, Sharon Shoesmith suspended on full pay - for how long and pending what, we don't know.

My bet is they will all of them be fully operational in similar posts within the year, dispersed when all of this is overtaken by other events (including the peadiatrician who can't spot a child with a broken back.)

Either that or they will all be drinking Pimms on the balcony of their state supplied Tuscan retreat. (Not Darth Vader)

James J

Ms.Shoesmith will not have been sacked as this cannot be done without going through a lengthy process.
The most likely outcome, if she is over 50, is early retirement on about £30K a year index linked after having maximum “Added years” put on her pension entitlement.
If you read Lord Laming’s report on Victoria Climbie the issue he should have dealt with but didn’t was recruitment policies. We need to consider what qualities and experience are necessary in Social Workers and whether this is reflected in the “Person Specification”.
In the case of Haringey there needs to be an investigation into whether officers had links in the ruling political party which prevented a proper separation of power.

Verity

Andrew Forbes - The baby had a broken back.

Certainly, the local council is culpable, but the major culpable party is the socialist government and the chaos it has created out of normal, well-regulated family life and neighbourhoods. Socialism is a sickening evil.

Andrew Forbes

Verity; I said "more than a little sympathy", not total sympathy. I'm sure you've seen how little time a GP has with a patient. "Broken back" can mean a lot of things. Bert Troutmann played the 195x FA Cup Final with a broken neck. Looked a bit sore, that's all. Poor doctor; has 10 minutes and an uncooperative, lying, bullying mother; so easy to shoo them out of her surgery; in hindsight it's obvious; without knowing the child is being badly abused in advance, it's an easy mistake to make.

I trust you've never made a professional mistake in your life.