Would a fourth term Labour government try and take Britain into the euro?

William Blake's Ghost

James:

You actually believe if Brown was in power he'd risk a referendum whatever national opinion was?

ChrisD

They will be fed the line that joining the Euro is necessary to get us out of this economic mess.
It would then be used as a shield for a fourth term Labour governments continued economic incompetence and failure.

Politics, and that is why Brown will have been on board. He loves finding new shields to hide behind.

Philip Wright

Why would the British voting public believe any Labour manifesto commitment to a referendum on Euro membership after they so blatantly reneged on the PROMISED referendum on the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty?

If the Tories can't make this an impossible play, and then Labour did win public support for this then I see no realistic future for this country and its wellbeing. I for one will not be in the handcart when it sees the signposts for Hell. After such a move the dissolution of Parliament and democracy in the UK will effectively be permanent and irreversible.

teledu

With one of the tabloids front page headlines today being about how the power companies are ripping off the consumer by not reducing prices as oil has come down, is it too incredible to think that zaNulabour might put re-nationalisation of gas/electricity companies in their next manifesto?
Might not be a runner with EU having final say and major EU companies owning some of utilities, but it would be a popular thing to say before an election, even if they knew it was a non-runner in reality.

David

How's it feel to have your strings pulled, James?

seb

In the 70s, the nation was deliberately misled into thinking the Common Market was a free trade zone, not the precursor to a United States of Europe. Heath unequivocally admitted that such a deception was his intention.

If Brown [or, dare one even think it, a Tory chancellor post-2010 or 2009] is braincellwashed into thinking the euro is our only hope, he'll join. National opinion for or against will count, once more, for absolutely nothing.

Ray

Of course, Brown could simply wait until the pound sinks to parity with the Euro and then, donning his most avuncular 'saviour of the nation' mantle, just declare that Euro-entry is essential to his crusade to rescue the British economy from the 'global virus that has come out of America'. Besides, when one pound equals one Euro there will be no need for all that confusing and unpopular rigmarole of re-labelling goods on shop shelves.

It might sound far-fetched, but with this prime minister in scorched earth mode, what has he to lose. After all, who would have thought this time last year that he would have ditched his entire 'Iron Chancellor' mantle in order to openly ramp up the national debt to stratospheric levels, as well as no less brazenly hammering Blair's hard-won middle-class New Labour constituency?

CAROL

This counry would never vote for the Euro the only way they will get it in is without a referndum. I would'nt put anything past this lot, Brown unelected and Mandelson unelected.

TrevorsDen

The Euro is the least of our worries - though it is a necessary precursor.
This crisis, which is at the end of the day 'just another' recession (no matter how deep), will be used by Eurofedralists to turn Into a single state, preferably a de facto undemocratic one party state.

Tara

I think Labour are trying to get the Tories into a tailspin by stirring things up on this and they want the Conservatives to re fight the 2001 election. As long as Cameron and co keep their heads and just repeat a Tory government would never join the Euro and don't go all extreme everything will be fine. Also the likes of Clarke and other pro European Tories need to see this is Labour trying to create splits in the Tory party and they should'nt rise to the bait and give Mandelson etc a victory.

Jim, London

Why would anyone want to join the Euro now? A falling pound is good for exports. We need currency fluctuations. If Italy and France were able to devalue the currency at the moment they would'nt be in such a mess. Great article from Peter Oborne.

LABOUR OUT

I will be voting Tory at the next election because I never want Britain to join the Euro. Monetry policy is the last control we have got in this country. We should be bringing powers back from Europe not giving more away. Brown is deliberately enacting policies that will devalue the currency, people do not be fooled.

Mike

'Try to take', for heaven's sake, in other words make the attempt - not 'try and take', which implies two separate actions.

Susan Hill

The British public, as I have said here before, knows nothing about economics - understandably, as economics is the most complex subject any government has to deal with and when they appear to understand it all very well the public sighs with relief and leaves it to them. So on this, they would believe the line that joining the euro would help get us ot of the economic mess because very very few people could put up a counter-argument. It is a bit like science - if they blind you with enough jargon and complex statistics you`ll believe anything to make them go away so that you can get on with your everyday life.
Unless the Tories put forward very sound explanations and put them forward in clear language Joe Public can understand and present arguments he can follow then if Labour is in power and wants to take us into the euro, into the euro we will go.

Jupiter

A 4th Labour term? Surely there aren't enough people in Britain stupid enough to vote for them again? Are there? Please say there aren't. I'm scared.

Freeborn John

The UK would be facing a worse recession had we been in the Euro. As in Ireland low euro interest rates would have propelled the property boom to even greater heights than here. And we would not now have such low sterling interest rates to push the British economy forward now. The decision to stay out of the euro has actually been vindicated by this financial crisis.

James J

The Political Class does seem to live in an alternative universe. A couple of years of recession and the strain on the Euro zone will become evident to everyone. How do you think Italy will cope with policies set to benefit Germany?
It is unfortunate that the Conservatives have taken a vow of silence on the EU or they would be asking question about our contribution after, whathisname?—you know that Islington lawyer chap---gave up our rebate.
Another political party—one that had principles, would have already made everyone in the country aware of the exact cost.

Nicholas

"Why would the British voting public believe any Labour manifesto commitment . . ."

Well, judging by recent polling, if it is to be believed, the British voting public seem to have a death wish. Labour are so vile one should expect a wipeout but their Dirty Tricks Dept are so adept at manipulating the headlines and maintaining the "narrative" and their very pleased with themselves cabinet members so shameless that goodness knows what will happen.

Draughtsman

I won't believe anything at all in any future Labour manifesto. They have renaged on just about every promise they have ever made. They are incapable of honest and straight dealing.

Verity

Philip Wright - You took the words right out of my mouth.

How have we become ruled - I will not say governed - by a Scottish MP from an unimportant area of Scotland for whom no English person has voted, and an individual unelected by anyone anywhere in the United Kingdom, and who has twice been sacked for financial malfeasance? Why is Lord Rumba of Rio swivelling his snake hips around the centre of power and infuencing the destiny of this country? Why are people tolerating it?

John

Not a fourth term of these Fabian crooks. Please NOOOOO!!!

Mandelson has been brought in to ease the takeover of Britain by the EU - and also possibly to introduce the Euro.

mitch

I find it absolutely amazing and incredibly depressing that mandelsons opinions count on anything.The fool resigned twice in disgrace because his judgement was wrong.
As for joining the Euro over my dead body.

JimBob

Australia is looking more and more of an attractive proposition

Athesius the Facilitator

Verity, I apologise for calling you Derek Draper in the previous thread you are clearly not he. And I agree with everything you said in that last comment. You're not Nigel Farage are you?

BrianSJ

Tara has the right of this. It is about splitting the tories. Play the man not the board.

Augustus

Why not toss a coin? heads or tails?

Ken

@TrevorsDen 5:39pm "This crisis, which is at the end of the day 'just another' recession (no matter how deep)"

I fear you might find yourself eating those words soon. This is an absolute global economic disaster of unimaginable proportion. Admittedly its roots were the US sub-prime scandal but MacRuin the fantasy "economist", blew the UK bubble to bursting point and the result is going to impoverish the US, the UK and to a lesser extent the EU for decades to come. Next move "quantative easing" (printing money) ignoring all Economics I strictures about money supply. How else will 1 trillion pounds of government debt ever be manageable? How long did it take Britain to pay off WW1 and WWll debt for heavens sake? Yep a cave in western Australia might seem like warm luxury for many before this is all over.

TGF UKIP

It is becoming rapidly inevitable that the money markets will very soon begin to agressively short sterling. When they do it will be coinciding with a rapidly increasing pace of recession so with sterling now at .87 the move towards parity could be much nearer than is currently believed.

Simultaneously,we could also be down at $1.20/1.25 with all that would entail for oil, commodities and a whole host of other dollar denominated imports, so the public will be under no illusion just how desperate things are.

Politically, it could cut either way. Gordon is probably counting and calculating on "take hold of nurse" but on the other hand if the Tories can raise their game the voters should be susceptible to being persuaded to give Labour one almighty boot up the arse.

The answer does very much lie in Tory hands which is why it is now in the national as well as the party's interest that they rapidly find an authoritative voice to speak on economic affairs and by definition that most certainly precludes Osborne.

May 09 couldn't be Euro Parliament Elections, Euro Referendum and GE - could it?! Or is that what Brown and Mandelson are working to.

Archie

Problem is: those of who are very much anti the EU and all its works have no rallying point, apart from one party that must not be named. After all, the Tories are afraid to make any kind of noise that might be considered controversial and UKIP may as well be non-existent.

The Laughing Cavalier

Brown was never agaist the Euro in principle (he hasn't got any). Blair favoured it,ergo Brown was opposed. The Euro is about politics, not economics. Now it might suit Brown politically to take us ito it. The fact that we don't meet the economic qualifications is irrelevant, Brussels would waive them in an instant.

strapworld

Bring back the GROAT

Come on lets get real. This is the party that said, after devaluation, that the pound in your pocket was the same, this is the government that said it was very likely that no shot would be fired when we went into Afghanistan, this is the government that said Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, this is the party that promised us all a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty, The list goes on and on and on. You cannot believe anything this rotten,incompetent,fourth rate and evil government and party EVER SAYS.

But, amazingly, there are still people out there that will support them!

God help this country.

Lucan C Heraclitus

Jupiter,

My palms are placed together in supplication and my head is bowed as I repeat your prayer.

David C

Laughing Cavalier:
Right.
The purpose behind the criteria that Brown set up, was to thwart Blair, not preserve an independent currency.
Blair made the EuroConstitreaty pledge, Brown saw a way to impose his authority on his party, on the Commons and on the country in general and signed us up.

Alex

.... Mandelson spin at work; in an attempt to unsettle the Tories.

If Labour win a 4th term, I'm not returning to the UK for another 4/5 years.

Damien Vaugh

I see it is now accepted that there is a possability of a fourth term for Labour, which is a change on previous headlines.

On the question of Labour trying to take Britain into the Euro that would require some nifty footwork.

1. The UK does not now meet the debt criteria for EMU membership (because of the stakes now taken with the banks etc). Neither does it meet the Masstricht deficit criteria.

That then leaves the option of applying to join the Euro through the ERM process (two years good behaviour). If we are really lucky the European Council might waive our current breach of the Maastricht deficit criteria (rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men).

That said it is a good tactic to 'talk' about the 'remote' possibility of joining the Euro , albeit years away, as it hedges our bets that should Aramgeddon happen( a triple crisis of sterling,soverign debt and banking) then at least the European Council will have had time to make adjustments.

Anyway let's see what Ireland does next.

As the saying goes 'prepare for the worst and you will never be disappointed'!

Ray

Archie, December 7th, 2008 7:05am
I agree with you. The only party that will take us out of the EU is led by "The man who cannot be named" but not to worry.
The quiet revolution has started and the Lab/Con/Lib alliance know it.