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Thursday, 11th December 2008

Petty or revealing?

Peter Hoskin 5:31pm

Just how significant was Brown's "Saved the world gaffe" in  PMQs yesterday?  Was it - as one respondent to Politics Home's latest PHI100 Index puts it - "a tiny motif ... that tells a bigger story" about Brown's hubris?  Or is the whole thing childish and overblown, as the Spectator's own Clive Davis argues

These questions may seem trivial - and I guess, to some extent, they are - but the opposition parties will certainly want to know the answers.  With Campbell and Mandelson back on the scene, the war of words has become even more hard-fought, and Cameron and Clegg will be sorely tempted to remind the public of Brown's slip-up at every availiable opportunity.  But that could backfire if voters regard it as nothing more than petty Westminster tittle-tattle. 

CoffeeHousers, your thoughts please.

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THX1138

December 11th, 2008 5:49pm Report this comment

Petty- No one gives a s**t outside the bubble.

Evan

December 11th, 2008 5:49pm Report this comment

On its own this would simply be a slip of the tongue. But, didn't Brown start his response to the Mumbai atrocity with the words'I am sure I can speak for the world when......'. He needs careful watching.

Mike Smithson

December 11th, 2008 5:57pm Report this comment

Just see Marf's briiliant cartoon on http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2008/12/11/marfs-thursday-special/

This says everything

Pete Hoskin

December 11th, 2008 6:00pm Report this comment

Mike: Just saw it before you sent your comment, and was going to link to it! You're right: a perfect cartoon.

William Blakes Ghost

December 11th, 2008 6:01pm Report this comment

Clive Davis

"I'm obviously completely out of touch"

Obviously!

And also says:

"when I worked at the Beeb"

Says it all really....

Mike, Brighton

December 11th, 2008 6:04pm Report this comment

A small glimpse behind the carefully constructed Mandelson/Campbell facade.
Another example of the sad personality disorder Brown has. He clearly has Narcissistic Personality Disorder : A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

..by my observation Brown shows all 9!

stephen

December 11th, 2008 6:10pm Report this comment

I think its very similar to the story about Cameron riding his bike but with a car behind him carrying his brief case.

Its a simple little story but people remember it because they think it reveals his true character.

I think this will be the same for Brown, although lets be clear its less damaging. Thinking you saved the world might be hubris but its also kinda true, in a diluted way.

adrian drummond

December 11th, 2008 6:14pm Report this comment

The gradual tranquilization of Britain over the last twenty years means that most people don't notice, care or understand what is said in Westminster.

mac

December 11th, 2008 6:21pm Report this comment

Kinda like Mandelson believing mushy peas were guacemole in a Hartlepool chippy, Stephen?

"Thinking you saved the world might be hubris but its also kinda true, in a diluted way."
"Kinda true"? Whaaat?

GS London

December 11th, 2008 6:22pm Report this comment

Difficult to say: I would reckon the public will see this as an innocent mistake, and will not see the opposition parties capitalising on it as sporting. There's a moral high-ground out there.

Athesius the Facilitator

December 11th, 2008 6:23pm Report this comment

I do not know if he believes he saved the world but he sure wants us to believe it. Listening to Ed balls interview on sky I think he has been rehearsing every line of the rubbish he is spouting and the interviewer just proved what I have been saying about the TV media's bias. Either that or Eamon Holmes is as thick as a plank.

Henry Rogers

December 11th, 2008 6:35pm Report this comment

Stephen,

I'm not quite sure how it is true that Brown saved the world in any kind of way! The hubris is completely undiluted however.

I think the Mike of Brighton comment looks horribly convincing. And this fellow has some sort of responsibility for nukes, or so they say. If he suddenly flips, will somebody be there to do the necessary?

Ian C

December 11th, 2008 6:43pm Report this comment

He saved some of the world (not sure which bit) but not Germany as we are informed by their Finance Minister.

Mr Bean saves the Planet - sound like a movie we've all seen!

The Bellman

December 11th, 2008 6:52pm Report this comment

Stephen: What mac said. In what way is this absurd boast true? At the very least it would have to be diluted by the insertion of the introductory qualification 'in several months time, it might be possible to make the case that', before proceeding to add a further 'might' and thereafter a 'parts of'.

And a moment's reflection reveals how utterly meaningless the assertion would have been even had McSnotty managed to say it correctly, instead of mangling it in his haste to spatter Cameron with ill-considered and premature boasting.

Sally Chatterjee

December 11th, 2008 7:03pm Report this comment

It was just a gaff. Funny if you're a politics nerd, irrelevant if you are not.

Most people are worried about losing their jobs, being forced to take a pay cut and concerned about scarce mortgages, rising taxes and if they can afford a holiday abroad.

I think Brown has a stutter and the Tories look poor for exploiting his speech impediment.

Oscar

December 11th, 2008 7:07pm Report this comment

It doesn't matter. We're entering an era of totalitarian politics and the public is being 'groomed' what to think and what not to think. According to the script Gordon DID save the world. Even Stephen thinks so ...

The Lisa Hilton Fan Club

December 11th, 2008 7:10pm Report this comment

The remark was a deeply profound and revealing insight into the flawed psyche of the Prime Minister, and will remain so right up to the moment when Cameron fluffs a line in an interview, or is caught on his bike being followed by a car or whatever, at which point it becomes a trivial piece of unimportant Westminster gossip.

Alfred T Mahan

December 11th, 2008 7:22pm Report this comment

Mike, Brighton, 6.04pm. You should have quoted more from Wikipedia - the article on NPD goes on to say

'To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen'

which I think is spot on as well. His behaviour most certainly isn't normal.

Nicholas

December 11th, 2008 7:31pm Report this comment

". . . and the Tories look poor for exploiting his speech impediment"

And that, of course, is so much worse than bankrupting the country whilst turning it into East Germany.

Yeah, the evil Tories, blah, blah, blah. It's nonsense like that that has saddled us with Brown and his motley crew for almost 12 years.

The Ten Labour Rules of the Game:

1. We may make mistakes but don't you dare tell us about them, that is just political point scoring
2. If the Tories make mistakes they deserve to be endlessly lambasted because they are an evil, "nasty" party. That is not political point scoring.
3. Damaging opinions about Labour are not representative of the majority of people.
4. Damaging opinions about the Tories are representative of the majority of the people, but they still need to be reminded about them by our friends at the BBC at every opportunity. That is not political point scoring.
5. The end justifies the means. Because we are always right and morally superior, anything that keeps us in power, and we mean anything, is completely justified.
6. Attacking the Tories in government is not Punch & Judy politics
7. Attacking the Tories in opposition is not Punch & Judy politics
8. Attacking Labour in government is Punch & Judy politics
9. Attacking Labour in opposition is Punch & Judy politics
10. Any Labour government, no matter how bad, is better than any Tory government, no matter how good.

Tankus

December 11th, 2008 7:44pm Report this comment

My mums in her 80's and was allways staunch welsh labour , , so are her friends in her social group ...voted in every election, even handed out flyers ....
Every one of them are voting for Plaid at the next elections. ..... Blair made them think twice in the 3rd term (sleaze) ,and brown utterly disgust's her .....

When labour starts loosing generational voters like that in the supposed heartlands , they are truly stuffed .....

They always vote , they never do polls.

Cameron should rise above the partisanship .Browns continual (and other ministers) digs at what another party did in another century as a justification of his efforts now, is starting to grate , and makes him sound increasingly lame.

Save it for the odd retort only in parliament...

seb

December 11th, 2008 8:02pm Report this comment

@ Nicholas

Millions believe in all of the ten points in your comment as though these formed the catechism of some religion. Tories are, to many, a sub-species of compulsive evildoers.

@ Athesius the Facilitator

Eammon Holmes is as think as a plank, as is anyone with nothing better to do than watch him on the crystal bucket.

@ Mike, Brighton

This sort of list, though it's been aired repeatedly on comment sites, is gaining in currency. I asked a colleague today what she thought of Brown.
Her unprompted response was 'autistic.' There followed a very cogent explanation from this lady, whose political beliefs I am unaware of, of her reasons for this diagnosis.

Other than having to explain the economic collapse to voters at the next election, Brown will have to square off against Cameron in, we hope, televised debates. I'm sure Kampbell and 'Lord' Manduja are desperate for strategies for avoiding letting the public make unfavourable comparisons between 'Normal Bloke' and 'Autist Man'. My guess is that Brown will be 'too busy' dealing with rogue comets and recalcitrant German finance ministers to do face-to-face debates.

Charlie T

December 11th, 2008 8:05pm Report this comment

The pound has been devalued by 30% This is massive news and by rights this alone should finish Gordon Clown and his misgovernment. Never mind all the terrible stuff like massive erosions of personal liberty, appalling violent crime, inept policing to name just a few of them. Clowns obvious personalty flaws mark him out as odd choice for Prime Minister at any time. But the economic crisis makes this largely irrelevant.

I`ll say it again sterling has been devalued by 30%. The BBC and other news organisations should be lacerating the misgovernment on this.

Oscar

December 11th, 2008 8:06pm Report this comment

I think Brown has a stutter and the Tories look poor for exploiting his speech impediment.
Stutter- shmutter. The man is a megalomaniac who is destroying the country. As you rightly point out Sally C., that IS what people are worried about. It's about time Gordon was held to account.

Chris

December 11th, 2008 8:15pm Report this comment

Tankus, your mother's voting intentions, then or now, would never be mine (mutiatis mutandis - no SNP or Labour for me), but her generation was at least educated to a level where it could think about the issues. Sadly, I'm quite certain Labour couldn't give a stuff about her generation's votes; the non-educated will soon be numerically dominant in the electorate, and will either not vote through apathy, or be easily propagandised into voting Labour because with Labour, the respectable classes' money will flow from the taps and grow on the trees of the underclass.

Oscar

December 11th, 2008 9:17pm Report this comment

All those tragic people desperately casting around for a Cameron gaffe who have to dredge up the bike 'n car incident I should point out that was TWO YEARS ago. And why do you still bang on about it? Because it's all you've got. In fact Dave is a gaffe free zone. Unlike poor Gordon who is so prone to floundering that he has to be bailed out on a daily basis by his army of spin doctors.

RODEST

December 11th, 2008 9:38pm Report this comment

This was Browns 'moment of truth'; he really does beleive that he alone has saved the world from financial disaster.

With his self-satisfying attitude he voiced his thoughts on the whole issue and was unable to counter his unintended true statement.

It is on these occasions when people like Brown expose their secret agenda, the Tories need to consistently attack Brown on the economy and the risk to the pound. Brown and in particular Mandelson will seize any opportunity to change to the Euro without voters being given the opportunity of a referendum.

Cameron should ask Brown to provide evidence that his policies are working; banks are not passing on rate cuts, no help for small businesses, savers are suffering because of the very low intersts rate and the reduction in VAT has not made any noticable difference.

mac

December 11th, 2008 9:50pm Report this comment

"Sally C: "I think Brown has a stutter and the Tories look poor for exploiting his speech impediment."

Lovely comic irony. I'm sure there's Far Side cartoon which illustrates the idea perfectly.

It was meant ironically, wasn't it?

Boudicca

December 11th, 2008 10:25pm Report this comment

A real insight into the workings of his brain when he is not parroting the memorised statements about the state of the UK economy. Gordon is like an android: boring, repetitive, monotonous and completely incapable of reacting spontaneously to an unexpected situation or circumstances. Anything 'off-script' does not compute.

Psychologically flawed anyone. What do you think, Alistair?

richard bond

December 11th, 2008 10:34pm Report this comment

Gordon Brown has decided to revoke his own doctrine of low taxes and balanced budgets. Not only Germany is confused. Raising fuel duty recently was very underhand. Perhaps he knows that the next government will be cursed with high debts and that the Labour Party will be out of office as the world economy hits vanishing point. Its an unprecedented gamble. He is taking us all for a ride off a cliff.
Saving the world was until now tony blairs mission/crusade.

Lizzie

December 11th, 2008 11:03pm Report this comment

Let's be honest - we all know that he "mis-spoke". So let all the conservative supporters admit it - if all the labour supporters admit that Thatcher "mis-spoke" when she said "we are a grandmother"

Mark

December 12th, 2008 12:31am Report this comment

It is not so much the gaff but his reaction once he realised he'd made the gaff. Just blunder on with the same old rubbish requardless, a mirror image of his style of government and policies. Also shows he lacks the most important attribute that any leader ( or human being) requires '' A SENSE OF HUMOUR.''

JohnAnt

December 12th, 2008 1:58am Report this comment

"I want to summon into existence the greatest coalition of conscience in pursuit of the greatest of causes." (Brown, speech to the UN, 31st July 2007)

In front of the entire UN.

Not a shy or over-modest temperament, is Almighty Gordo.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 4:34am Report this comment

Yeah, if only the entire universe just behaved and did what Gordon Broon ordered , everything, yes everything would be bleeeeeding perfect.

Where did the liebour party dig this joker up ?

Mr Sunshine Gordon Broon has done more damage to the British economy than Herman Goering's Luftwaffe. Not bad going for a born and bred Glasgow Govan boy, well done lad.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 4:45am Report this comment

The ego has landed, pathologicaly flawed, Gordon Broon has saved the world.

Yup, he's gone cuckoo. Angela Merkel thinks he's a pathetic loser as well.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 4:48am Report this comment

Angela Merkel cv = phd in physics and chemistry.

Gordon Broon - Slacker at university, grew his hair long and, eh, um , thats it.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 4:54am Report this comment

Would someone, anyone, in the name of God please, please tell me where the Liebour party dug up this wretched creature Gordon Broon from ?

Thanks.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 5:00am Report this comment

If nutty meglomaniac Gordon Broon thinks he has saved the galaxy.

Why doesnt he go the whole hog and wear a Superman outfit then ?

Game, Set and Match to Wilhelm.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 5:02am Report this comment

I dont know why Gordon Brooon is laughing ?

He's put the country in a £Trillion in debt.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 5:25am Report this comment

Meglomanic Gordon Broon squeeeeeels

''Not only did I save the world ''

Why stop there Gordon ? Why not say the solar system, the galaxy or the entire bleeeeeeding universe.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 5:55am Report this comment

The deception of others is rooted in the deception of one self.

And Gordon Broon thinks he's Superman.

More like Coco the Clown.

cuffleyburgers

December 12th, 2008 7:54am Report this comment

Sally C - try this one for size:

"poor Gordon is certifiably insane (see above posts re Autism et al) and criminally incompetent (see any newspaper for the last ten years) - I think the tories (and anybody else who cares about the future of this country) are jolly rotten for using this against him in such a party political way.

oldtimer

December 12th, 2008 9:23am Report this comment

It seems that the Balls/Brown attempt to dismiss the remarks of the German finance minister as just a matter on internal party politics within Germany is not correct. The budget spokesman for the other party in the coalition, Steffan Kampeter of the CDU, has said that Peer Steinbruck was "exactly expressing" the views of the German government.

The slip of the tongue, for that is what it was, was significant because it was a Freudian slip, reflecting his inner belief.

No doubt, anyone in a position of responsibility (such as a PM or a Chief executive) had better have a heavy dose of self confidence. Megalomania is another, and very dangerous, matter.

Austin Barry

December 12th, 2008 9:27am Report this comment

Wilhelm

What's with the sequential posts? It reminds me of the quote from John Aubrey's Brief Lives:

"Dr. Kettle was wont to say that Seneca writes as a Boare does pisse, scilicet by jirkes."

Jim

December 12th, 2008 10:17am Report this comment

Remember - this is the man who reduced VAT by 2.5%, claiming it would revitalise the economy, and now, just days later, is proposing taxing car parking at work at £350 a year.

Completely barking....

Arthur

December 12th, 2008 11:29am Report this comment

One might think 'saved the world' was conceited enough, but considering he meant to say 'saved the world banking system', we should excuse him the first slip up.

However, is the claim he was trying to make any less conceited? I think not. This man is a conceited, traitorous idiot.

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 1:34pm Report this comment

Austin Batty 9.27am

As Gordon Broon would say.

'' On behalf of the world '' what exactly is your
point ?

Wilhelm

December 12th, 2008 1:46pm Report this comment

This is a defining moment in world history just like Magarat Thatcher ran out of 10 Downing Street and used the royal we '' WE are a grand mother. ''

Gordon Broon has let his guard slip , he pretends to be a modest, son of the manse, humble routine.

When in actual fact Gordon Broon is a narcissistic, self indulgent ego trip,

Alex

December 12th, 2008 6:26pm Report this comment

Revealing if you're a Con supporter; petty if you're a (ZaNu)Lab supporter

THX1138

December 13th, 2008 9:25am Report this comment

Austin B- "Wilhelm What's with the sequential posts?"

I think it's the German blogging equivalent of nabbing all the sun beds.

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