Risk management

Verity

James, there are probably many people who would prefer that the Shadow Cabinet have second jobs outside the glass bubble of Westminster. They like the idea of them out there fighting in the real world like the rest of us. And it should be presented that way. Those operating outside Parliament see life from the perspective of the voter. I think it should be presented as a positive.

Frank

I do not understand the furore about "second jobs". One of the the main problems with British politics today is that the the majority of the main actors have never ever had a proper day job.

ChrisD

Labour and the political lobby have been trying for years to damage the Tories through Ashcroft, and to a lesser extent Laidlaw.

But as with the Shadow Cabinet's second jobs, no matter how unsatisfactory that situation might be in the longer term, these attacks have been largely blunted by the behaviour of the other two main parties.

If the public deem that the Tories have the right politicians, and the right policies, then this really isn't going to be a big issue outside the Westminster bubble.

Hague is a very popular speaker, and writes books on political history. How is that going to damage him or the Shadow Cabinet?

And as for Ashcroft in particular, he has stuck with the Tory party through thick and thin times, and works tirelessly within the party to help them win the next GE.

If the Tories don't do well at the next GE, whatever the reason, it won't be because of these issues.

Silent Hunter

Why are the Tories not further ahead in the polls?

For God sake - someone in the Tory Party please take this on board......

The Labour Government have allied themselves to the Bankers.

The people know that the Bankers are to blame for the recession and therefore absolutely HATE THEM !

Labour insist on giving the Bankers OUR money, with NO STRINGS ATTACHED and yet they still want more.....GREED clearly a habit they find hard to ditch......as is finding humility.

The Tories ALSO take the side of the HATED BANKERS (historically)

So if the choice is Labour or Tory who BOTH side with the HATED BANKERS.......then there is no one 'DIFFERENT' to vote for who don't support the HATED BANKERS.

The first party to distance themselves from the HATED BANKERS and bring them to book - IE Put the guilty ones IN JAIL where they belong - rather than the House of Lords as payment for their mendacity; will see their lead in the polls go astronomical.

It's NOT rocket science guys!

FFS Just DO IT!

BrianSJ

Jimmy
Take a break. Really, go for a walk in Argyll. When did you last see the milky way?
Then maybe you will stop buying NuLab narrative. We need you to be sharper than this.

Mark

I have lost count of the number of times Mr Forsyth has mentioned Lord Ashcroft. As far as I can tell no one else is interested in the point.

Meanwhile, what has happened to the Abrahams affair which blew up in about November 2007? Are the police still investigating? I ask because that was major news, but the media, including Mr Forsyth, seem to have forgotten all about it.
Chase the story, Mr Forsyth, rather than regurgitating your own hobby horse (pardon the mixture).

dilys

If a donation is legal why is it "politically risky"?

Sean

C'mon... seriously? You think that having another job or Ashcroft will mean that the Tories will lose? I know that it is embarrassing, and I would love for these two issues sorted but that is not what I would be most worried about.

bernerlap

The Ashcroft stuff is nonsense. Ashcroft is a patriot, who quite rightly does not want his money spent on propping up this pathetic excuse for a government. If anyone questions his position the Tories should point out his work for the Imperial war Museum, the fact that his (very expensively acquired) collection of Victoria Crosses is on permanent loan to the IWM so everyone in the country can appreciate the sacrifices made on our behalf.
That is more valuable to the country than paying tax that would be spent on crap like 'diversity officers.' And other non-jobs. Or printing documents in Urdu in areas whre the only ethnic minority are the people who run the local takeaway.

Nick Berry

This is addressed to all those who argue that the shadow cabinet having second jobs is a good thing. The problem is not that they have second jobs outside Westminster it is that the jobs they have are there solely to provide them with income and not experience. It might be different if the shadow minister for agriculture had a second job as a farmer but instead these second jobs consist largely of directorships and public speaking gigs. There is nothing inherently wrong with this but too argue that these jobs provide some kind of extra 'experience' is not really credible.

strapworld

Mr Forsyth.

You do keep on and on about second jobs. You have lost the argument so many times, if the comments are to be taken into consideration.

Are you working for Brown?

As for Lord Ashcroft. He, alone, has done more for crime prevention and detection than any other person in the history of this country with his brainchild (alongwith Sir Kenneth Newman) of what is now CRIMESTOPPERS! which he still funds. So any complaint or moan by the socialist losers should be reminded of that one fact!

One which, again and again YOU ignore.

Are you working for Brown?

As for donations. The Conservatives need to wake up and revitalise Local politics, bringing people to realise that their vote counts. Remove Central Government control on local government. Make local councils totally responsible for local finance. IF they make a hash then they will be thrown out and cannot blame central government.Bring in elected Mayors for all councils, elected police chiefs for all council area's, education and health boards as well ALL ELECTED. Plus local referendum.

Then people may, like the USA, contriburte via the internet IF they believe the Tories will remove the straight jacket of central control.

But I forget...the Tories are linked in with the corrupt EU.

simon hb

Why do people have a problem with shadow cabineters having second jobs?

Oh, lord: it's because being in the shadow cabinet is *meant* to be their second job. Their first, well-paid job is to be members of parliament representing their constituent's interests. Constituents might wonder how well they can be doing that if, alongside dreaming up policies at Central Office, they're also dropping in to do some hours at the bank or wherever.

In addition, there's an obvious problem in a person serving two masters - how can someone taking cash from outside parliament ever hope to be untarnished by that external interest? How can they vote on a budget without at least considering their external paymaster's position? Likewise, European legislation, or any other piece of law that will affect all businesses.

Marian C

Well said Silent Hunter; I'm with you on this.

Verity

Dilys asks a good question that hasn't been addressed.

Nick Berry, I totally disagree with you. Being out there in the knockabout world of capitalism, where if you're not able to offer something someone wants, you have no safety net, is wonderful experience for representatives of the people. Those practising it can relate much more strongly to a waiter whose restaurant is closing down because the owner just can't afford the taxes, or the requirement to hire incompetents due to race, gender, sexuality or whatever. I like the idea of our representatives being engaged in the knockabout, dog-eat-dog real world which illuminates the problems their constituents are trying to cope with. Rather this than chaps and fat chappesses propped up in one of the bars in the HoC discussing backstabbing strategies, or enjoying long lunches in the HoC ... Give me the men and women out there fighting their corner in the real world. I don't resent the extra incomes they take home through their extra efforts at all!

Fergus Pickering

As I've said before, I really don't know what the ordinry Britishvoter thinks about Tories with big salaries. Probably he/she resents EVERYBODY who is rich, including you. I mean, what do you earn, and by what sort of a factor is it bigger than the ordinary voter's screw? Do you deserve it? Of courseyou don't. Everybody who earns more than the average belongs to the undeserving rich. But I doubt that William Hague's big pay cheque makes much/any difference to what ordinary people think about him. Likewise Lord Ashcroft and other rich men who givemoney totheirpreferred political parties. I think ordinary people would far rather this happened than they were taxed for the money. Anyway, that's what I think. And I don't even mind rich journalists, except when they pontificate about this sort of thing. Remember, as far as the ordinary people, the punters out there, ther men on theClapham omnibuses go, you're ALL rich, pribviliged people. And, come the revolution your houses will be burned to the ground and your throats will be cut. Yours fraternally.

john problem

You call those a 'second job'? No way. We can rest easy that our future leaders are without the stain of knowing the real world. But unless they get up and say something compelling they aren't going to be our future leaders. Has one ever seen such a modest, quiet, take-it-easy opposition? Her Majesty's Opposition! Her Majesty should set her corgis on them.

Michael Doyle

Risk Management is also concerned with making the most of opportunities.
What about making the most of your best strength ? (which, coincidentally, happens to Labour’s weakness) .

I refer to economic management. Attack, attack, attack the monetary Stuff ups of Labour and tell voters that under the Conservatives their money will be safe, house values will increase, unemployment will go down, and food prices will stabilise.

TGF UKIP

I am completely with James and john problem on the issue of second jobs for several reasons.

Firstly, if the Tories were an effective opposition, were hammering Labour and were where they really should be - so far ahead in the polls they're out of sight. Fine. But they're not, they are only neck and neck with Britain's worst ever government and so many of them are completely invisible - simple test, go to the Tory Party website and look at the names and mugshots and then with most of them try and remember when you last saw or heard of them.

Secondly, while there may, just about, be justification for an MP having a limited outside part time interest the same does not apply to a member of the Shadow Cabinet. Modern government is fast moving and complex particularly the New Labour version which functions by unceasing activity and intitiative. Shadowing cannot, therefore, be anything else other than a full time occupation. That so many of them do function only part time probably goes a long way to explaining how crap an opposition they are and how unimpressive and half-hearted most of them appear to be on their rare media appearances.

Thirdly, remember when this issue ignited a couple of weeks ago a lady party worker placed a very indignant and entirely justified post along the lines of why should she give up her spare time slogging it out for the party to win office when those buggers who'll be getting the plum jobs can't themselves be bothered. Talk about how not to lead the troops!

Fourthly, venal part time Tory shadows plays right along with how Labour wish to portray them. Of the City, in the City and for the City.

To a great extent this latter point goes along with the Ashcroft and donation problem for the Tories. As other Coffee Housers rightly point out Labour have more than enough genuine sleaze and dubious donation problems themselves. The difference is, though, they know how to throw mud and make it stick while Dave's gang haven't got a clue how to really mix it, with this being to some extent a reflection of the parties and party leaders themselves.

Dave and his Tories, instinctively consensual, Brown and his gang instinctively combative.

Where I am most emphatically not with you though, James, is on the most glaring Tory weakness of all which you and your colleagues seem most peculiarly unwilling to face up to.

Osborne.

Field Marshal Eccles

There is a question of attitude behind Ashcroft's arrogant aversion to disclosing his actual tax status. For me it casts doubt on his patriotism, no matter what other gestures he makes.

Michael Doyle

my advice: deal with the weaknesess ASAP and as publicly as possible.

Cameron needs to show strength and tell members of Shadow Cabinet that second jobs are not permitted.

The tax issue? Publicly tell Ashcroft that he is not assisting the Tories by his actions.

Donations? Make it known ( yes, I know this is what Blair would do and its a bit cynical) that "unsuitable" donations will not be accepted by sending back a few.