A relationship on the wane?

Tim Carpenter

What do you expect after Basra? Were our Forces let down by their political leaders? That is what I suspect. A fish rots from the head, so my finger points at Blair and Brown.

John Page

Booker wrote about the army's Iraq failure in the Sunday Telegraph a couple of days ago.

Wilhelm

British sailors got kidnapped by Iran

What did liebour do ? NOTHING.

Paul B

Portillo was right then when he wrote in the Sunday Times a few ago. I will try to dig out the link.

He (Portillo) was not making a criticism of our forces as Nulab tried to intimate, rather of the poliitical leadership of our services-lions led by confused lambs.

Paul B

Link for Portillo article
http://www.michaelportillo.co.uk/articles/art_nipress/basra_2.htm

Bruce, UK

If the rabble currently masquerading as the British Government has no respect for our armed forces then why would we expect others to do so?

As the "Scum of the Manse" sitting in Downing Street might remember "that which ye sow, so shall ye reap".

The Laughing Cavalier

There's nothing wrong with HM Forces. They have, however, ben betrayd by their political masters, Brown in particular. It is he who so contemptuous of the Services and has done so much to undermine them through deliberate undefunding.

Geena

The Armed Forces haven't had any proper spending for the last decade so of course they've fallen in capabilities. This is all part of the Left's abandonment of nationhood for multinationalhood where bullies that would once have been diplomatically shunned are given a stage to shine on. Look at A'jad, he waltzes into the UN and the useful idiots grovel.

True Bred Pomponian

It just goes to show how important it will be for the Conservatives to ensure that they invest fully in the Armed Forces when they get in. It can easily be paid for by cutting 70,000 MoD civil servants.

Forlornehope

The release of the 1978 cabinet papers showed that Britain was broke and defenceless then; it hasn't changed much then.

Matt

True Bred Pomponian- nicetry but I'm afraid that won't work. I'm ex RN and not a MOD civil serpent but, we need them. The forces have been cut to the bone- in fact, deep into the marrow.

Support jobs have been civilianised, as have many of the functions of the MOD CS, often by the same staff working for agencies and then being hired back for more money.

Just what do you suggest is cut from the CS? Given that the Forces are now stuck in a hellish cycle of train, fight, train, fight- who is going to take up the slack behind the lines?

The chaps in uniform can't do it, they are needed at the sharp end. Cutting the MOD CS would actually exacerbate the problems we already have and lead to more of the lads and lasses in uniform voting with their feet.
There is waste and inefficiency within the MOD CS, but I would suggest that all the people there could be better employed within the MOD rather than being let go.

Sadly the cuts necessary to get the Forces back on track can't really come from the MOD CS- it's a very attractive idea, but the reality is that it would only further shaft the already suffering soldiers, sailors and airmen.

Ian C

This confirms that the priorities of the role of the State have become so misued under statist socialist Labour.

The State's first duty is to maintain forces that can protect the country and its interests. If that means not providing 'gay outreach managers' and the raft of other non-jobs that have exploded in the past 11 years, then thank goodness.

The screwed up minds of soft headed socialists are inexplicable. Even more so when they are voted in by those who are not like them and would agree with the order of priorities.

So there was no danger in voting Labour/Lib Dem/UKIP in 1997/01/05?

Wilhelm

The fact is that the two world wars have left the British and French empires shattered, they have never recovered.

The facist left are cock a hoop.

Chuck Unsworth

This is about quantity, not quality. What the Americans want/wanted was much more than we could ever hope to provide. That is because the armed forces have been shredded over the past decade. It's appalling that this has led to a huge loss of fighting capacity, destroyed our defence capability, politicised the military and inflicted immense irrecoverable damage to our national prestige. Read ARRSE if you want further clarity. The Armed Forces are sickened by this 'Goverment', as we all should be.

Wilhelm

For decades Britain has kidded themselves on that they have a '' special relationship with the USA.

In America they have never ever heard of it.

Austin Barry

I guess that the Americans, like many of us, lost faith in the Royal Navy after its cowardice in the face of Iranian aggression. It's hard to forget the hi-jacked, hijabbed, fag-smoking, obese Wren Faye Turney, the winsome and tearful Able Seaman Arthur Batchelor and their enervated shipmates paraded in shimmering polyester suits and clutching goodie bags. The crew of the Good Ship Venus showed more guts,imagination and energy.

Polly and Alice's mum

Just another nail in the coffin of our once proud country - which has been systematically destroyed during 11 years of nu-labour.
I am ashamed to be British these days.

True Bred Pomponian

Matt,

Unlike you I have worked for the MoD very recently and I can assure you that in many cases MoD activities are unnecessary and, even where the activities are needed, they take about three times the number of staff that could rationally be needed to do the job. I could never work out what the 9,000 staff at Abbey Wood all did, for example. My own function was a waste of tax payers money, incidentally, which is why I got out.

Fergus Pickering

I think Obama's an asshole (is one allowed to opine that?) and no friend to Britain. We do better when there's a Republican in the White House and even better when there's a Tory at Number 10. We'll have to ait till 2014 for this. I confidently expect Obama to fall flat on his face and not be re-elected

Tankus

Why don't we just accept that we are no longer a world player and just go Dutch

CS

***Why don't we just accept that we are no longer a world player and just go Dutch***

Go Dutch? Are you advocating a cap on spending?

David Lindsay

There is no "special relationship". There never has been (and yes, that does ionclude during the War). Britain needs to learn some self-respect.

Verity

OK, Matt. Then let's chop 70,000 diversity officers, Urdu translators and pretend bobbies.

Fergus Pickering - Fingers crossed. What people miss is, Obama isn't that bright. He's all show and flurry. Of course, Tony Blair isn't very bright and he is all show and flurry and he got reelected twice after failing abysmally at everything he touched.

I'm not holding my breath. But my fingers are crossed.

Juliana

Obama is totally uninterested in foreign affairs. Totally. He will continue to be so until whatever the next 9/11 on US Soil turns out to be.

porkbelly

Juliana is absolutely right - that's why Hillary is Secretary of State. Dear Leader never would have given her a position of influence in an area he cares about. And yet I predict that foreign policy will prove Obama's undoing...while he is busily formulating grandiose social re-engineering programs the storm clouds overseas will gather and darken...

Archie

Forgive this modified repost of mine from down the street, but I feel it is germane to this thread also:
"Quite brilliant article and subsequent comments! I spend a fair bit of time in North America and it has to be said that commenters here are quite right about the negative impression that the Iraq/navy hostage fiasco had on our standing with the public over there, lord knows what the elites thought, even though I seem to remember that the commander of HMS Cornwall has quietly "moved on". Perhaps it shouldn't have been quietly?
Military coup, anyone?