The Muslim Council of Britain's disgusting decision to boycott Holocaust Memorial Day

AngloWelshDragon

The loathsome MCB must be delighted to have found an 'excuse' to pin their non-attendance on. I think we can guess what the MCB really think about the holocaust...

I draw a distinction between the MCB and the muslim population. None of my muslim friends is happy about these people masquerading as their representatives and think the establishment does muslims a disservice by according them such importance.

Faceless Bureaucrat

James, you should expect no less from this body - whatever its perceived 'moderate' credentials, it is still based on a hatred (or at best, dislike) of non-Muslims and this latest action by them only reinforces that fact.

Whatever the situation as at today's date, 6,000,000+ men, women and children going to their deaths in Concentration Camps (and that excludes the non-Jewish victims), whatever their religion, should be remembered in an appropriate manner.

Using it as a 'headline-grabber' for the 6 o'clock news broadcast is despicable, but sadly to be expected.

givrnup

Holocaust memorial day.. what are you talking about? if ever you visit a death camp, you will not wish to be reminded. these atrocities happen even today. why on earth does the MCB to remember it?

Rachel

Is anyone actually surprised by this?...

Neil Turner

The UK Government and media are really in denial about the Islamic issue

I do appreciate the Spectator's stance here. You are one of the few who speak up

I am sure there are many in the UK who feel totally unrepresented by the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Sky, Times, Telegraph (etc) on this issue> The police compound this by turning a blind eye to Islamic hatred towards Jews

When will we face the facts about Islam ? History does not lie

Mister B

With respect, your interpretation of the MCB's justification for boycotting Holocaust Memorial Day is disingenuous and downright misleading.

Far from it being the MCB that “draws no distinction” between Jews and the state of Israel, it is you that has failed to draw a distinction between the MCB’s decision to pull out of an event because of refusal on the part of the organisers to extend the focus to the suffering of Palestinians and what you crassly denigrate as “Holocaust revisionism”. What an outrageously twisted conclusion that is.

I won’t hold my breath expecting you to put the record straight, however, as demonising organisations like the MCB would seem to be enshrined in your editorial policy.

Austin Barry

The MCB is loathsome, but its position is entirely consistent with some of the less helpful tenets of Islam and we should expect no more.

David

Mister B should perhaps find out about Holocaust Memorial Day.

Firstly, it's about genocide, which is not happening to the Paelstinians.

Secondly, it has focused on more than just the Holocaust each year, using that shameful event merely as a basis to consider a variety of awful events.

The MCB know this, but a) still wish to make a political point out of a horrendous event and b) possibly do not care for the commemoration of such an event when it comes to Jews.

On a wider note, I hope this is thrown back at them when they make the fatuous claim that they have nothing against Jews, it's just the Israeli government they don't like.

Neil Anderson

Well done to the Spectator again for highlighting the MCB's true colours. I find Mister B's post rather offensive as well in its blithe statement that this memorial day should be extended to cover the Palestinians. The focus of this memorial day should never be extended, to think it should downgrades the scale of these tragic events. Which is, logically, a form of revisionism. Good article.

peter

"Disgusting"

A term used with such subjectivity by this magazine and its blogger in chief - Mme Phillips - that the Spectator has lost all semblance of thoughtful and considered journalism in favour of its agitation and promotion on behalf of the Israeli Right.

Cassandra King

Mister B is an object lesson in moral relatavism, conflating different subjects is the mark of the Islamist/Marxist alliance.
A thin veneer of whitewash cannot hide the viscious anti semitism lurking beneath, to even compare trivial and palestinian fully self inflicted suffering with the industrial murder of Jews is heart breaking and dishonest in extremis.
Who elected the MCB and why do they miss out the 'great'? A bunch of chisseling bigots with an axe to grind a buck to make, egged on and assisted by self hating handwringing white people, God help us!

Nicholas

peter: "Disgusting" - "A term used with such subjectivity by this magazine and its blogger in chief - Mme Phillips - that the Spectator has lost all semblance of thoughtful and considered journalism in favour of its agitation and promotion on behalf of the Israeli Right."

You mean as opposed to agitation and promotion on behalf of the pro-Hamas and pro_Islamic extremism Left? That is certainly disgusting when you consider their 40 year record of mayhem and murder. Remind me again, Peter, which Israeli extremists attacked the Olympic village, hi-jacked all those airliners, sent out all those suicide bombers, blew up those train stations and nightclubs full of innocent people, crashed those aircraft full of innocent people into the twin towers, also full of innocent people, and beheaded those innocent people on TV?

Even during the obscene persecution and genocide of the Holocaust the Jews never resorted to such depraved and disgusting acts of murder. When they fought back, as in the Warsaw ghetto, they fought as soldiers. And in Palestine their terrorists were a tiny minority, reviled by fellow Jews. But goodness there was enough provocation.

Don't ever try to pretend this is 6 against 1 and half a dozen against the other.

Andy Leeds

I cannot say I particularly agree with 'Holocaust Memorial Day', but it exists and so the MCB ought to respect it and attend. I find the hypocrisy of the MCB typical. One doubts the so called liberal-left will have much to say on the issue. They never do.

George Laird

Dear All

Cassandra King's point.

"Who elected the MCB".

Do you have to be elected to stand up for your rights?

Who elected the Queen?

It seems that the Spectator has decided to run a series of articles on how terribly nice the Israelis and their soldiers are.

We, of course must remember the Stern Gang who murdered British servicemen.

That way we can remember just what some people in this country are supporting.

Here is a link

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/kidnap.htm

Always best to look at the facts.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Verity

Cassandra King - I take your point, and no one loathes this MCB outfit more than me, but I don't see that forcing them to pretend a sympathy we know they don't feel wins any points.

Second, I wish people would stop referring to lefties as "self-hating white people". They do not hate themeselves. They are inordinately proud of their impartiality, their Mahatamesque ability to see the big picture, their ability to sympathise with those who others, with good reason, loathe.

Far from being self-hating, their egos make Barbra Streisand look like Little Nell.

Jack

Can someone actually PROVE that MCB has 'boycotted' Holocaust Memorial Day? The Guardian didn't quote them, and there is nothing on their website.

mac

"Always best to look at the facts."

Ah, 'facts'. Forgive me if I don't consider them through the prism you offer on this vexed subject.

Christopher

George do you even know anything about the MCB, or are you just being a good Islamic butt kissing liberal?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/158761/muslim_council_of_britain_lists_demands.html

Fergus Pickering

Though in general I am to the right of Attila the Hun, I'm not greatly taken with Holocaust Remembrance Day I must say. When do we STOP remembering it? Or do we make it all-inclusive, a sort of ritual breast-beating intoning of 'Unclean! Unclean!' Large scale murder of innocent civilians by bloodthirsty governments was quite a feature of the twentieth century. And I doubt if the twenty-first will be any better. Is it not one of the stated policies of Robert Mugabe to exterminate the other tribe in Zimbabwe, and hasn't he had considerable success?

Big Alec

This is in response to George Laird, but may be of interest to others: yesterday, I withdrew from an academic programme at Glasgow University, because I could no longer endure the pro-Palestinian (or should that be anti-Israeli?) views that permeate that particular institution. Consider this: during three consecutive tutorials - held by two separate lecturers - the flow of the discussion was repeatedly interrupted by the tutors, who would say (and I'm paraphrasing): 'I'm sorry, but we really need to talk about the atrocities happening in Gaza...'
As far as i could see, this was not germane to the discussion. I could see the legitimacy for these interjections had I been studying a politics degree, but I was not. Glasgow University really needs to examine itself. And their teaching staff need to decide whether they are teachers or unelected politicians. I do not think it is right that lecturers feel they can use their classroom as a political platform in order to force their views on students whose only objective in attending their lectures is to obtain an education.

Lucy

I suppose it is the same as saying - much of the terrorism in the world today - is perpetrated by Muslims - in the name of Islam - it might be a good idea / justifiable to boycott important gatherings to do with Islam -

How would it sound if we said - we draw no distinction between - Muslims committing acts of terror and the Muslim Council of Britain - for example?

So sensitive - the Organisation of Islam Countries - is trying to use the UN to outlaw the connecting of Islam with terrorism.

What's emerging is one rule for Muslims - and rule for everyone else. Although westerners are asked/ required to understand Muslims/Islam - Muslims are not required to understand or indeed to respect anyone else.

Nicholas

George Laird: the comparison to the Stern gang is not a valid one. The Stern gang were specific to a time and place - their targets were primarily the British military. Their activities were reviled and denounced at the time by the majority of Jews. On the other hand Palestinian and Islamic-extremism have exported terror worldwide and targeted many thousands of innocent people for over 40 years.

Arthur Lincoln

I wish I was living in a Britain of singular cohesion rather than this Britain of dual fragmentation.

Firoze

Its quite funny how people call this disgusting.

Yet teh Jews decision to not or even ban the rememberance of the Nakbah is taken as one of those things.

Its dbl standards like those that make the 1st world a bunch of hipocrits (spelling)

Joel B

To Fergus Pickering: We must NEVER stop remembering the Holocaust, nor any of the mass killings that have followed (Cambodia, Bangladesh, Rwanda, Iraq under Saddam, Darfur....). Otherwise they WILL continue to occur! If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. At the very least, even if such events can't be stopped or prevented, those of us with a rational thought in our brains can make the moral distinction between what is right and what is clearly wrong, as opposed to groups such as the MLB.

Alf Tupper

Arthur Lincoln.

Well that 'Britain of a singular cohesion' is approaching alright. Not the one I think you have in mind though. God help us all.

THX1138

They don't help themselves do they but neither do the Catholics

This vile anti-Semite and Holocaust-denier Bishop Richard Williamson has just been allowed back into the Catholic Church

http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2009/01/traditionalist-bishop-there-were-no-gas-chambers.html

John Lea

THX1138: can you please refrain from branding a whole religion as anti-semitic based on the actions/views of one member.

THX1138

John- Your're right I apologise but I have to say the Catholics do have plenty of historical form don't they & Mel's up to it on her blog.

"the Arab and Muslim agenda of the destruction of Israel and genocide against the Jews"

Looks like she's saying all Arabs & Muslim's are for the destruction & genocide of the Jews, which is outrageous

I just got carried away and I'm actually really sorry that was not my intention to slur a whole religion just the evil bigot Williamson.

Why did Pope Benedict just recominunicate the man?

It's an outrageous decision.

Dave

John Lea: Think if you read Islamic religious text you'll find plenty anti-semitism to justify banding Islam anti-semitic

George Laird

Dear Big Alec

“This is in response to George Laird, but may be of interest to others: yesterday, I withdrew from an academic programme at Glasgow University, because I could no longer endure the pro-Palestinian (or should that be anti-Israeli?) views that permeate that particular institution”.

I am sorry that you have withdrawn form an academic programme as these programmes can help students with regard to future employment opportunities. You should reconsider that decision as during my time, I met some really nice and helpful people on the teaching staff.

Also for the record I met some others who frankly were disgusting creatures.
People will exercise their right to freedom of speech but that is not illegal yet under New Labour.

“Consider this: during three consecutive tutorials - held by two separate lecturers - the flow of the discussion was repeatedly interrupted by the tutors, who would say (and I'm paraphrasing): 'I'm sorry, but we really need to talk about the atrocities happening in Gaza...'”.

Since you haven’t mentioned what course you were doing, it would be hard to judge whether the lecturer was valid in directing the discussion to that point.

“As far as i could see, this was not germane to the discussion”.

That is as far as I can see, given information presented by you this appears to be subjective opinion.

“I could see the legitimacy for these interjections had I been studying a politics degree, but I was not”.

Studying politics need not be the only sphere in the university that Gaza would find a place for discussion among staff and lecturers.

“Glasgow University really needs to examine itself”.

Yes, particular among what is termed the senior management, right up to the Principal.

“And their teaching staff need to decide whether they are teachers or unelected politicians”.

I know of staff who are standing for political office, it is called self advancement who are you decide what they can legally say?

“I do not think it is right that lecturers feel they can use their classroom as a political platform in order to force their views on students whose only objective in attending their lectures is to obtain an education”.

Only an education, is that all you think that attending a university is all about?
It appears to me you need to go back and get the others parts of what university offers learned too.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

George Laird

Dear Nicholas

“George Laird: the comparison to the Stern gang is not a valid one”.

That’s your opinion and I am sticking to mine.

“The Stern gang were specific to a time and place - their targets were primarily the British military”.

My friend’s dad who incidentally was the youngest British soldier in the invasion of Norway served in Palestine.

He told his son, my friend, about how the Stern gang operated by hanging British soldiers and then bobby trapping the bodies of the dead so as to kill other British soldiers.

“Their activities were reviled and denounced at the time by the majority of Jews”.

Got a link to that?

“On the other hand Palestinian and Islamic-extremism have exported terror worldwide and targeted many thousands of innocent people for over 40 years”.

And the Israelis have target many thousands of people over 40 years but they don’t travel that far unless you want to include the Mossad killers who were caught after killing an innocent arab in a Sweden.

Finally, for those of a delicate disposition I am not pro Hamas, I am anti murder of innocent people.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

John Lea

THX1138: apology accepted (and thanks for being big enough to make it).

Dave: I think we are in agreement, perhaps saying the same thing in different ways. Namely, that you need to examine religious creeds in their entirety before passing judgement on their morality, and not simply take the actions of one member (or a few members) as representative of an entire belief system.

Big Alec

George Laird: I do not want to mention the degree I was studying, because there were a number of very good tutors and people on the programme, and it would be unfair to tar them all with the same brush. I can only re-iterate that it was not a political degree. I take your point that a tutor should be able to direct the course of discussion if he feels that the subject is relevant to the discussion, but, having said that, can we please have more balance. For example, the tutors never stopped the flow of conversation in class to say 'ok, we really need to talk about what Mugabe is doing in Zimbabwe' or 'let's now talk about the human right abuses in Cuba under Castro'. Why? Could it be that one is a tad black and the other is (still) a left-wing poster boy? In other words, is it ok to discuss (so-called) human right abuses only when they are carried out by right-wing governments?