A question of identity

Wilhelm

James

Er, um Enoch predicted all this 40 years, the Londonistan subway and Glasgow airport bombings, the BBC and the Facist left did a hatchet job on him and cast him into the
wilderness.

Rhoda Klapp

All parties are terrified of a British identity. Otherwise why would they sell us down the river every chance they get? Or act as if Binyam Mohammed deserved the protection of the UK? Or that unlimited immigration is OK so long as the incomers pay tax?

I don't think Grieve's position here is fully thought through. Of course I recall when he was the subject of a Coffee House questioning a few months back, and he was less than satisfactory then too.

James Forsyth

Dave B, Thanks much--have fixed now.

CS

Identity dictated by the state. Oh sorry, you said fostered. That makes it completely different.

Your identity as English or British is how ever you feel about it yourself.

I suspect what James wants is for the state to "foster" the view of Britishness that he prefers.

Why should any of us have an artificial identity. I'm perfectly at ease with being English and British and the proof of that is that I never have to define it for other people.

This whole debate is an exercise is lazy hacks getting a gig as a columnist in the papers. It wasn't that long ago that the papers were always full of people agonising about a lack of national identity.

My basic rule of thumb is that those who bang on about national identity the most are those most insecure about their own.

David Ossitt

A question of identity.+

The identity problem and it is a problem; will only be solved when those who seek to run our lives, polititions, the press and the ever present single issue pressure groups acknowledge a self evident fact.

Most of us are 'English' not British but English and until that fact is recognised we will always have a problem.

The people of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales revel in their own identities and some particularly the Scots and the Welsh take great delight in expressing their dislike and in some cases hatred of the English, whilst taking pleasure in spending the revenue raised from taxing the English.

If pride in your country is to be admired when your country is Ireland Scotland or wales.

Why is it seen as despicable if it were from an English man or woman?

Kevyn Bodman

On another thread,about Osborne's reform speech, one of the Coffee House staff wrote about the Swedish education system.
I contend that if that were to be brought in then the teaching of History would sort itself out without any State interference.And from that would flow a sense of identity.
There are still enough who would choose schools which would teach British History.(I hope.)

What the State should do is protect our borders, stop immigration and apply a policy of one law for all; no concessions at all to any 'community' and no privileged dealing with any self-selected 'community leaders'.

Now James, I see that you think the State needs to play a role in fostering a sense of identity. But you haven't made the case in this post.
Will you be able to in the next few days? I think there probably is a case to be made,I think many of us might like to read it.

David

"There is a crisis in Britishness right now."

Is there? Oh. If you say so.

Winston Smith

The very name of multiculturalism(multi cultures living side by side) proves the total and complete absurdity of the belief that it benefits society. The only thing that multiculturalism benefits are the third world cultures that decide to come and live in a first world culture to benefit from:
free medical care,
social security,
social and council housing,
education,
an army there to protect them from attack and a police, law and order system.
And in turn of them receiving this from us, we have to accept:
the destruction of our culture,
the enforcement of hate and race laws,
the enforcement of having to have our children be taught their cultures over ours,
the enforcement of those people of other cultures into British jobs first before our own Indigenous population under equality laws,
National day parades cancelled so that Anti British marches can take place from those who want to impose Sharia Law and Islamisation upon us,
Conflicts between tribes in their previous lands onto our own streets,
a place for the world to march and protest at problems in their country,
continued payouts to aliens, that commit crimes against us, but are rewarded because of so called human rights violations,
and most laughable of all, tiptoeing around ethnic minorities and investing more police to catch criminals who harm them so as not to created radicals and terrorists. In other words ethnic appeasement and discrimination against the Indigenous British people.

In other words, multiculturalism is stealth cultural invasion by others. It is a parasitical program that will eventually kill the host. To be British, means coming from another land, leaving your laws and cultures there, respecting our laws and culture as your own and bringing your children up to speak English, not the language of your previous land.
However, how can you ever expect immigrants to integrate when university lecturers speak of how angry they are and the audacity of being told to "assimilate" into Britain as one spoke of in the University of Westminster, disgusted at the idea. Politicians just don't get it. You go to a land outside of Europe and you HAVE to assimilate for they realise that if they don't then they will have a problem of cultural destruction.
Now they may be catching on, by this article, but I fear that civil war and bloodshed is on the cards as those people who are British, fight to prevent it from disappearing under the horror that is multiculturalism

fulcanelli

They need to start by tackling islam in this country. This inept, and quite frankly useless excuse for a government has laid a lot of the ground work for these problems. However, we should not have been pandering to the minorities as much either. When people emigrate to a country, they should be made to adhere to the laws of that land and not moan and complain when they do not suit their particular style of life or choice of religion. Tough, if they don't like it they can always move somewhere else, like an islamic state for example. They know the situation before they emigrate, why should we be the ones who are affected by their arrival?

People are also being affected by the PC brigade and the sheer nonsense they spout whenever they get an opportunity. People now feel as though they can't criticise anybody in public, comment on islam, race or gender, and heaven forbid someone mentions that immigration should be controlled or even restricted. What the hell have we done to our country?

All previous Labour voters, I hope you're proud of the Britain you've now created. What a mess we now all face.

Florence Nightingale

Maybe they should have a chat with Kevin Rudd of Australia. I have heard no one decry his recent declaration to Australias' immigrants.

Fergus Pickering

I know what I am. I am English. I had a go at being Scottish - got my schooling there - but, hell, who wants to be a miserable celt unless he has to be. The Englishman has won first prize in the lottery of life, said Cecil Rhodes. Too right! Britishness is something invented for incomers. I don't give a damn for Britishness.

Simon Denis

History as taught in schools has been debauched. The PC brigade use it to propound their anti-western agenda. The predominating topics are the Nazis and the Atlantic slave trade. Stalin and the Islamic slave trade are of course ignored. The agenda is obvious and it carries the "lesson" that mass immigration into Europe is the price we have to pay for our "historic guilt".

This doctrine is in itself racially prejudiced, of course, but since the objects of derision are white, nobody is expected to mind.

The solution is not to return history to some equally spurious, whig celebration of England's past, with a saccharine, superficial nationalism recommended for today.

In the first place history should be dispassionate; concerned with truth rather than currenty expediency.

In the second place, our history was frequently bloody, futile, destructive and unjust - Gibbon's catalogue of crime and folly, not some Macaulayan pantomime. To portray the English Reformation, for example, as anything more than a land grab followed by an orgy of Mao-like ancestor-hatred, would be a lie.

Moreover, the same fanatics who have turned history into a litany of "white guilt" would be the people charged with representing "Our Island Story" for today. Can you imagine what a nauseating symphony of cant they would come up with?

National consciousness is a fragile and a wonderful thing. It grows over the generations and is best when pronouncedly ethnic in character - Burke's contract between the dead, the living and those yet to be born. A vast web of shared assumptions and experiences allow for refinement and precision of speech. Note the rough, inhuman vulgarity of American English - lurching from technical arcana to blunt, unhallowed obscenity. This must arise when the nation is merely civic, its people a gaggle of exiles, their common bond nothing more than the market, their interchange a matter of barter and contract.

In the England I once knew, already fast fading, history was a loving but disinterested examination of the past, recalled sometimes in lamentation and cherished for its own sake, not because it lead to some moral good. The nationalism is presupposed, the history full of light and shade, the sense of belonging intense and plausible. That belonging cannot be shared out willy-nilly to vast numbers of newcomers, each with their own, infinitely more compelling history which calls to them from the lands of their ancestors.

In the old, tolerationist way, it could be extended, bit by bit, to Anglophil individuals or long established minorities coopted into the national consciousness as such. But now? The socialists have wantonly broken it. Who will put Humpty together again?

Vauxhall

To quote Cantle: areas of diifference to celebrate and areas where we are not going to accept difference. (Sep 2005)

Mrs Campbell

So what is the role of the State in your opinion?

Michael

Like USA I believe we should have a multi ethnic British Society. People wishing to come to to this country should, like Americans, wish to above all, become British, whether they are Polish British or whichever Ethnic British. I agree with Trevor Phillips that we have sleep walked into segregation by this politically correct notion of multiculturalism, which has become so divisive.

Cynical Voter

I don't think the UK State Apparatus has any future role - people no longer identify with the state at all - ALL institutions in this country are discredited and corrupted

Mahatma Coat

What is desperately needed in this country is for politicians and the media to get out of the lives of ordinary citizens, stop trying to live their lives for them, stop trying to take decisions that don't belong to them and just let the people get on with living their own lives. The fact is there are far too many parasites sucking the life blood out of our society and economy. There is only so much value generated by any human activity. At the moment the parasites are absorbing most of it to the detriment of the customer, eg education.

Jock

The English are the majority people in the UK. It is they who have been denied a voice or avenue to express their identity. I'm a Scot and I think that this is unacceptable.
The English have been forced by the left leaning intelligentsia (I may be over promoting them) to subsume their identity in order to accommodate all identities except their own. This must stop.
The State does have a role. Lets see our National Flag flown with pride from our public buildings. Lets stop wringing our hands for our past and our achievements. Lets stop sucking up to other nations at the expense of our National interest. Lets see our Foreign office start advancing the UK's interests, instead of looking out for others. Maybe then, we can start feeling confident about ourselves and in our contribution to a successful Union. And all this starts with our elected Representatives holding our Government to account properly, so we, the people, can buy-in to the British State once more.
Maybe then, we will all feel confident enough to start looking at our shared heritage and taking pride in our history. You can't impose this through a National Curriculum - we have to buy into it; a big part of that is for our institutions to start behaving as we expect in a democracy and leading by example - by being overtly proud of being British and behaving with the values our current leaders keep parroting.
Finally, realign the Union to give the English a proper say in their own affairs as we have done for the Celtic fringe.

Kittler

Yes, it is only the State which is enthuiastic to label us all with a British identity, whatever that means. I won't be aknowledging any such description. Ulstermen and immigrants will be ok with it, but the rest of us prefer our native nationalities.

David

People who come to live in Britain should be encouraged to become Scottish, English, Welsh or Irish. Those with qualifying parents or grandparents can apply straight away. Others can apply after a period of residence in their preferred country. This way they can support or be eligible to represent their country at sport just like their new compatriots and so become part of their community.

On a separate point I find that many English writers, who should know better, use 'England', 'Britain' and 'The UK' interchangeably, often in the same article. Why is this? Are they not taught any history?

hadrian

The secret of 'Britishness', its spiritual essence is/was Protestant Christianity. The further this is sidelined for exotic Romanism or secular multiculturalism the further the Union will unravel, plain and simple. That people do not like this message is neither here nor there, it is a fact.

Verity

Why do you capitalise the word "state", Mrs Campbell? As in State. It's not a proper noun.

This is a Communist construct. Most of us write state.

You're a new flea in these parts, unless you're blogging under a previously discredited name.

Verity

CS - "Your identity as English or British is how ever you feel about it yourself."

What unalloyed idiocy. Your national identity is what it says on your birth certificate, if the British are still issuing them and they're not "too judgemental".

I see that Cherie Blair got it made legal under one of the European constucts, to change your birth certificate to the sex of your choice. To hell with DNA! But one more devaluation of civilisational certainties. Now you can marry a "woman", whose birth certificate says F, and actually be marrying a man.

Such goes the maleficent destabilising of society.

Now I see that under some European construct, can't be bothered to look the name up, for in vitrio fertilisation, it will be allowable to women to name anyone as the father of the child. Even another woman.

There goes another advanced civilisational construct.

And now the socialists are fretting about the rights of Muslim "faith" schools.

In truth, Islam is alien to advanced Western values. Their "faith schools" are brainwashing establishments and should be made illegal. Or the government should start supporting schools devoted to Scientology.

David Cameron won't be any better.

Verity

"Michael" - I suspect you are not English, but come from a society that doesn't employ the definite article. That could be India - in which case you could be an Indian Muslim - or from some other Islamic society. Somalia or something. Also, you have no regard for our ancient ethnicity, which is Caucasian.

Verity

Cynical Voter - I agree. What would you put in its place, given that the taxpayers/electorate has been robbed of their civilisation? And that those who foresaw this, which has is now manifest, were hounded out of public life?

Lee Jakeman

"Much of it has been brought about by the doctrine of multi-culturalism..."

What about devolution, which has made the word "British" a complete irrelevance?

The Scottish call themselves Scottish. The Welsh call themselves Welsh.

Britishness is cynically used for English consumption only, lest they start thinking of themselves as "English" and making the word "British" obsolete.

Alf Tupper

Grieve's most salient point appears to be that much of the ruptured nature of Britain - all constituent parts of it - can be healed by such salves as the competent teaching of History.

Necessary but insufficient.

This would indeed help young British people to regain a sense of self. But we have now seen to it that many of our schools are filled with young people to whom our history is, at best a trifling and defunct story, and more often, something to be hated, pilloried and buried.

If a Briton were to go and live in, say Bolivia, would he want to erase 'his own story' and supplant it with stories with which he has no connection? The tendency would surely be to hanker after the story of what his ancestors, those who delivered him to this age, were contending with at that period in time.

A History and the identity which it engenders, is something which is ingrained, inculcated over generations and cannot, with the best will in the world, be grafted-on by means of an airport reception cribsheet; and good will is anyway, in very short supply in this regard.

David Ossitt

I will try again; we the indigenousness people of these Islands have never ever thought of ourselves as British. We have always been Scots, Irish, Cornish, Welsh or English etc.

We never have had a 'ness' in common only a love and belief in the United Kingdom to hold us together.

This government allows any Tom Dick or Mohammed to have a British passport; this together with encouraging Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland to have their own parliaments paid for by English tax payers has done great damage to the United Kingdom.

Multiculturalism and non democratic Europe are the added poisons to our national health.

Anan

Let me bring a dose of realism to these stuck in the past comments: No one in the real world (outside of websites with you lamenters of lost racial purity) cares what race you consider yourself or what national identity you like best. Most normal people just want to go to work, buy a house and live a decent, safe, life with a family. All this talk of identity is pointless, and quite frankly, belongs in 18th century. This discussion only serves two purposes: to distract from the real problems of crime and poor health and schooling services we face, and to weed out those with antiquated, pointless, irrelevant racial purity ideals.

Fergus Pickering

My dear Anan, if this talk belongs to another century it is the 20th, where Nationalism ruled pretty well everywhere, not the 18th when gentlemen travelled and conversed in French and Latin with other gentlemen. But I rather gather from your post that you think History is bunk. By the way, would your remarks refer equally to irrelevant, antiquated, pointless religions like, well, to shoot a bow at a venture, like Islam perhaps?

Wilhelm

Anny squeeks

''Most people just want to go to work, buy a house and live a decent, safe, life with a family''

Not if your gay and living in Iran it aint, son.

The Cat Anan

Anan - if you are so dismissive of identity, why are you always so offended when I answer your rubbish posts?

Methinks you protest too much. Obviously, you feel inferior, otherwise you wouldn't be so disturbed by being bested by a cat.

Verity

As we know, England is being destroyed in the cause of integration into the communist hellhold of the EUSSR as "regions". The word England will not appear on any map of Yurrop. (Incidentally, oddly enough, I don't believe that Gordon Brown is involved in Common Purpose.)

But make no mistake, David Cameron is in on this, which is why he gets such an easy ride from the lefty (in other words, all the) media. It's why he steers well clear of any mention of the EU. David Davis would have a far rougher ride. If Cameron is not a member of Common Purpose, I will be simply astounded.

Re "asylum seekers", the British "government" (irony here) should book some freighters or troop ships or anything that floats and round up asylum seekers and dump them in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are shockingly short of maids, gardeners and chauffeurs and would take it as a kindness. Every "asylum seeker" in Britain is in the country illegally. Everyone seeking "asylum" is supposed to beg for asylum in the first safe country they come to - on land. Not book themselves flights to Britain. That we are giving "asylum" to Somalis and whatever is a studied insult by the British government to the British people. This Binyam Mohammad creature should be returned to Gitmo. He is nothing to do with us. Another studied insult by the British government. "See? We can do what we like, and you just have to take it."

David Cameron would not remedy any of this. In fact, I don't recall him addressing "asylum seekers" at all. Just "man made global warming", grafitti and chocolate oranges at the bookshop checkout.

David Ossitt

Anan.

It is a normal human trait to want to belong; to know who you and what you are, to take pride in your country and to be proud of its past history and the present day achievements of your fellow country men.

Anan you twice mention racial purity; why? nobody is writing about that, you have by reffering to it invoked the spectre of Hitler's Germany.

If this was your aim then one can only deduce that you have a nasty malicious mind.

David Ossitt

Verity.

It does my heart good to read your comments, keep it up.

Wilhelm

Annie

Do you know British soldiers fought and died so that you could write lefty liberal garbage on the Spectator ?

Alf Tupper

Anan.

Thanks for bringing your dose. If this topic is pointless, then why would you waste your time with it?

Your ideas on what actually motivates people though, seem to overlook the central importance that history, tradition and identity have, to billions of people throughout the world.

Or is it just the English speaking nations which are not allowed to have ideas about their origins?

hysteria

What Jock said

Wilhelm

You gotta feel sorry for the people of England, every time they step out of the front door they are tripping over Al Queda sleeper cells.

Bianca

And why have the British, UK, English, Scottish, Wellsh or Irish cheer so much as NATO destroyed Yugoslavia? This divide et impera really works! It was OK before it all fell apart for various nationalities to proudly call themselves Croats, Slovenes, Albanians. But this was not the case for Serbs. Everyone's history, culture and religion was fabuous, but the Serbs had to watch out for their "nationalism". Well, if Serbs then stopped calling themselves Yugoslavs, there would have been hardly anyone left. When NATO bombed Serbia to take away the province of Kosovo, it was to protect Albanians from the bad Miloshevic. And not a word in free press of the daily killings of Serb farmers in Kosovo by their Albanian "neighbors", that is, those who came accross the mountains from Albania. Tito's Yugoslavia was "multi-cultural", and he wellcommed the uncontrolled immigration from Albania to "control" the Serbs. In the end, he got his wish. Kosovo, the historic craddle of Serbia is now "independent" country, eagerly recognized by European countries. In that Kosovo, the earliest monuments of Orthodox, pre-Catholic Christianity have been destroyed or are in the process of being destroyed under the watchfull eyes of NATO soldiers. Churches, monasteries, old graveyards, ancient ruins --- all systematically destroyed or advertised by the newly minted Kosovo government as their own heretage. Such are perversions of history, such is a fate of powerless. Yet, the mighty Western press is nowhere to be found. Why not? It will at least give a glimpse into your own future. Today in Serbia, new human rights law is being proposed which will make it nearly impossible to practice their religion, Orthodox Christianity, without being labeled "clero-fascist". And the national history is to be diluted to avoid the "Serbian mythology". And the Brittish, or English, or Scottish or whatever people are actually staffing the NGOs charged with monitoring the daily life, so as to insure that the history and tradition are kept out of sight. It went so far, as to control the folk dancers and singers, suspecting them of fanning nationalism!
While expressing other religious beliefs is encouraged and supported.

In fact, it is not that these "others" are being pampered. They are just being used. They are lifted on the pedestal, so that the envy and fury of the majority will be fanned. So instead of sorting out their own relationships in their own country, they are set up for permanent conflict, for the benefit of the manipulators. British, English, Scottish and others may need to think hard: who is setting you up for division and failure. It is not that somebody likes Islam; it is that somebody wants internal conflicts, and is setting you up for it. Politicians, being the same cowardly breed everywhere know it, but will never let the public onto the secret. My guess is that those who are so eager to set up quazi-states with their parliaments, and with an eye to the representation in Brussells, are the ones who "love" multiculturalism. They hope you fall for this, just as Serbs did. And that you will be set up to see Islam as your problem. Perhaps, just what the Serbs failed to do, you may be too slow to fix your gaze on Vatican.

Verity

The only 'Maggie' I see, man or woman, is David Davis. He is on the side of the British. All of us. We're all in our same island boat ...

Cameron has to go away. He was a disastrous choice.

Archie

Winston Smith: Welcome aboard, sir!

Sharyn B

English - thats what I am - directly decendant down 6 generations of 1820 Settler families only, who were voluntarily exported from the UK because there was no future for their families (in short resultant from the Industrial Revolution and end of Napoleonic Wars)I celebrate the same culture, the same language, the same history, fought and died in WW1 & WW2 on the same side as England. Yet I have NO equal right or the same offered opportunities to coming home, as the EU or any other foreign national, is this because of location location location! My history(officially recorded & clearly traceable ie birth certs ) means nothing. Marrying a UK passport holder with Right of abode Zimbabwean with UK born parents still did not give me any advantage over EU (he died in 1990)UK Immigration Acts has done a good job writing all its direct descendant family's out of the UK ! Tho nothing will change the fact that I am proudly English and will be till my last breath is drawn.

David Ossitt

Bianca I am confused; your well written comment, even after rereading would appear to argue both for and against calling a spade a spade.

Please humour me; in one short paragraph please explain.

TomTom

It's not a proper noun.

This is a Communist construct. Most of us write state.

Actually Verity it is Hegelian and refers to the Prussian State as the fount of evetything - recall Hegel's Dictum The Individual is Transient, The State is Permanent

Then you know where the Leninist Version of Hell on Earth emerged from - it is the complete antithesis of Christian Values

MM

Is state-manufactured national identity not one of the fundamental precepts of fasicism? I think you should have more confidence in the British people to fashion their own culture - which I suspect they would do, and probably quite to your satisfaction, were politicians with their social-engineering instincts get out of the way

Verity

Well, Bianca spent a long time getting geared up, but her last paragraph is on the button. She is saying what I have said consistently for the past 12 years. There is a malevolence in this government (and it won't go away if Cameron gets in) and our country is being deliberately weakened and manipulated by people who want to get their feet under the EU top table.

This accounts for the topsy turvy, destabilising of our ancient mores - as in sending a Gulfstream jet to ferry this itinerant Ethiopian Binyan - can't remember his last name ... Mohammad maybe? - to our country and give him handouts. And benefits for bigamists and polygamists. The vicious militancy against Christianity. Sex education for five-year olds. Compulsory "gay relationships" education for seven year olds. (Some parents are up before the beak for refusing to let their children attend.) The financial inducements for placid single mothers to breed more mindless bottom feeders who will have the vote.

This is all being deliberately engineered.

Cameron must be kicking himself for giving the game away when, in a moment of careless elation, he declared himself the heir to Blair.

Too true, mate. That's why you cannot be allowed in.

Britain began to be deliberately and maliciously picked apart by Tony Blair. It's part of a movement.

Bianca's final paragraph is on the button.

MikeF

There isn't a crisis of Britishness. There is an attack upon it - or at least those aspects of it that pre-date, say, the 1950s - by people who hate it and who shelter behind an affected concern for the sensibilities of ethnic minorities as a disguise for their real motives.
But the point about such people is that, for the most part, their own origins are in the identity they despise. 'Multiculturalism' is just the smiley badge facade for a mix of preening self-regard and displaced self-hatred that motivates its proponents. That's all. Get that and everything else falls into place.

Verity

Hard to believe, but MM naively writes:

"I think you should have more confidence in the British people to fashion their own culture - which I suspect they would do, and probably quite to your satisfaction, were politicians with their social-engineering instincts get out of the way."

See, MM, very simply put, the policians are not going "to get out of the way". The have their knuckles clenched white from holding onto the power they have stolen from the electorate. It is not a case of the politicians saying, "Oooops! I'm in your way, am I? Sorry, old chap!" It's a question of wresting power from cold, greedy, self-serving, over-ambitious, arrogant individuals who have their unwavering serpentine eyes firmly set on power in the EU. Just look at any of their faces to see how open they are to negotiation and discussion. Every decision they make, as in this Binyan garbage, is a deliberate assault on our ancient mores and our common history. They do it to show us that they can. Power and domination are their common purpose.

Don't look for relief from Cameron. He's one of them.

Wilhelm

Mike F

You mean like radical nuts Tony Benn, Ken livingston, George Galloway and human rights lawyer, shit stirrer Sami Chakribatty.

Wilhelm

Verity says ''Britain began to be deliberately and maliciously picked apart by Tony Blair. It's part of a movement.''

It goes back to the 1960s, gult ridden liberals are ashamed of the British Empire, they have rubbed it out of the history books and the good it did like stopping the Indian practise of Sati, putting wives on the dead husbands funeral pyre. John Pilger is another hater of caucasions and the west.

JohnnyEnglish

A crisis of Britishness?

I suppose you are right. Not that it means a lot to me.
I am perfectly comfortable being English.Couldn't care less about British. In its latter phase it was and is only ever a contrick to get the English to subsidise the celts.

Sooner it goes, the better , as far as I am concerned. We are now about where the USSR was in the late 1980's. The sooner we get to the equivalent of Russia post USSR and shot of the baggage of centuries the better.

Though the English will handle their economy far better than the Russians did theirs!

Verity

Incorrect, Wilhelm. They are not guilt-ridden regarding the British Empire because none of their families had any part in it. They have erased it from the history books as part of their assault on Britishness. It is a way of disconnecting children from their past. When people don't know where they came from, and what sacrifices were made on their behalf by previous generations, they are very, very vulnerable, which is how this government likes them.

Andy

I used to be British; since devolution I'm English, albeit of Welsh descent. I graduated from a Welsh University recently and the "nation" they kept talking about at the ceremony wasn't Britain or England. We need to address the fact that English freedoms were hard won by a country that was Christian and, since Henry VIII's time, Protestant. It's the Protestant Ethic that shaped us. We may be multi-ethnic, but we should not be multi-cultural. Everybody should speak English in England - no enormous bills for translation services - and accept that the country's ethos is Christian and tolerant.

Alf Tupper

"Is state-manufactured national identity not one of the fundamental precepts of fasicism?"

Nope.

Ask me one on tennis.

Bianca

David Ossitt, I realize it was darn too ambitious attempt. English are the majority, and should assert this culturally and politically. But the job of the majority is also to protect the country's interests. These interests are being undermined by uncontrolled immigration, economic/foreign policy mismanagement and foreign intrigue. Uncontrolled immigration must be addressed, and I am sure that the citizens of Great Britain, be they of Indian, Pakistani or Polish descent, would wholehartedly support this. There is no need to alienate these communities but get them behind you. What you want is to avoid the manipulation of the minorities by those seeking adventures in foreign policy, along with the fabuous money they are making of it. Remember, Britain, including all of its population, is being bled by the delusions of US/EU imperial project, and to make you, English, Scottish and others go along, you need to feel the danger at home. Your right to express your common sense observations about the problems with immigration and cultural integration are ridiculed by the elite, making you feel even more powerless, and making you focus on the "otherness" as the key to the problem. As the Treasury is drained, and the elite called to account for their mismanagement, they would prefer that you focus on something else. In the meantime, foreign intrigue does not sleep. In the name of multicultural heaven, you are asked to decentralize, have many parliaments and power centers. In the face of economic hardwhips, you all are being asked to create even more bureucracy, more states within states, more disunity. You will soon accept they they all have their own diplomatic representations, and on it goes. This is a whole lots more then a paragraph, I know, but I want to scream when I see same manipulation work.

It may be time for English to show the way. And that means providing some badly needed leadership by tackling the dangerous social ills that mindless immigration and midless multiculturalism brings. But to do that, support must be found among the more conservative populace of well-established immigrant communities that are just as fed up as anybody else. That would cut the "multi-cultural" lies down to size, and garner support against the ruinous foreign policy of endless geopolical gaming and interventions. The "multiculturalist" lies would lay exposed, and the naive intellectuals that support it, would (hopefully) see the light. You have the duty to expose the lies of these "humanitarians" around the world, to insure that the current elite does not smack you down with labels. For sure as the sun is rising every day, they will label you with "nationalism" or worse --- "nazism", "clerofascism", "anti-semitism", just name that tune.

And most of all, get everyone's support in stemming the pressure to "decentralize", as it undermines the unity of the country, adds tremendous financial burdens, and opens the door to foreign meddling. With British help, Vatican has nearly completed its Intramarium project, on books since WWII. With help of Reagan and the subsequent administrations, the triangle of Vatican-controlled states is now nearly complete. From Baltics accross Poland, Austria and Croatia, it reached Adriatic. Now, it is making the moves to get Ukraine under its control, even though only 11% of Ukrainians wish to be controlled by EU. That would firm up another end of the triangle at the Black Sea. The non-catholics inside are strangulated, little by little. With the efforts to marginalize Russia and to exclude it from the European trade and energy deals, the project is moving right along. But the English populace is sleepwalking thinking that this is all great. No it is not. You are being set up, slowly but surely. Your elites are either too dumb or do not care, and it is up to you to find new leadership. It is not enough to just react with anger to this obvious mess. Keep in mind: these cultural ills were not created by those who stupidly or naively believe that the multiculturalism is their saviour. These ills were created by the top leadership that exploits these feelings to manipulate you, the majority. So, lashing out at the idiots who happen to be the beneficiaries of the twisted policy, can be very counterproductive. You will alienate many of those among the immigrant community who would wellcome you as their saviours, should you chose to challenge the elite and their globalist gamble that brought the ruin to the nation.