Cameron's five reasons to vote Tory

Sally Chatterjee

If it's raining on polling day this won't get the vote out, it's a bit "motherhood and apple pie" until we see detail on education and welfare reform.

That said, a month of Gordon Brown on the campaign trail will ensure a peak turnout of Conservative support.

Rhoda Klapp

You know, I don't have many problems with those answers. I'd like to have seen something about liberty, but no matter, you can't have everything. Call me partly satisfied, to the relief of those who were getting tired of the question (of which I was not the originator, just an adopter of a suggestion from another coffeee houser months back).

TrevorsDen

1 Gordon Brown

2 Gordon Brown

3 Gordon Brown

4 Gordon Brown

5 Gordon EFFING Brown

My 6th reason BTW would be ... Hazel Blears, Margaret Beckett, Harriet Harman, Caroline Flint, Yvette Cooper, Yvette Cooper ... Yvette EFFING Cooper

George Laird

Dear All

So Cameron uses an old rehashed trick by Gordon Brown.

Do we all remember the Five Economic Tests under New Labour?

There must be something about using the number 5!

We have had Cameron fall on his rubber sword last week re the banking problem, now we have an old failed New Labour trick from him.

It can only be time before Cameron attempts to pull a bunny out of a top hat!

It is a great pity that he couldn't get on a Morecombe and Wise show then he could have had a bit part in a play that Ernie wrote!

He has tried physical comedy falling on his rubber sword that flopped.

He has tried this Shakespeare farce of 5 reasons that is just out but it will flop.

Next week; he will return and promise us a magic act about the country’s finances but he will have no props that will be a failure too.

Finally, when he realises he has exhausted everything he will be forced into Ham acting trying to play the role of a leader with no policies.

I expect the reviews to be good as he born for that part.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Kevyn Bodman

It is not important that the Labour government is exhausted.
The important thing is that they have gone, and continue to go,in the wrong direction:

Lisbon, database state, bailouts,multiculti concessions to 'communities',criminalising peaceful demonstrators,increasing the number and scope of ministerial 'edicts' that expand the law,
fox-hunting

And these are just things off the top of my head on a Monday evening.
We need the repeal of a lot of Labour legislation.

Nothing in Cameron's answer on relations with the EU and, most specifically, the Lisbon treaty.

Devolve more power to people and local authorities.
Why to local authorities?
Fraser sees the problem in his post.

I'll log in tomorrow and look for Rhoda's response to all this.
But I wouldn't give him more than 6/10 on this question.

Searcher

"..devolve power to .. local authorities"
Does that mean to officials, or to councillors? Those are two different things, and one of the many current problems in local government is the relative impotence of local councillors in the face of legislation giving power to the officials who interpret the law. And how exactly will a Tory government get both central departments and new ministers out of the long-established mindset that one of the key tools of government is to "place an obligation upon local authorities to do x, y and z". Devolving power - nice words, but centralised government is deeply entrenched in this country, whichever party is in power. And even if power is devolved successfully, what would be the mechanism for my protection and redress if my local council proves to be even more corrupt, incompetent or loony than we have at present. (Please don't just say that I get to vote them out at the next local election)

strapworld

Mr Nelson,

I note that a number supported my questions, on the Lisbon treaty.

It matters because his promise to devolve power to local authorities goes against everything this EU believes in, ie: Central Power!

Sorry. Pipe dreams until Camron answers directly the questions I suggested you ask.

Perhaps you could ask him next time round?

Chuck Unsworth

There's a whole bank of Quangos and other NGOs that could be wiped out with no apparent effect whatsoever on the fabric of society. If Cameron intends to cut the leeches that suits me just fine. Then he couls turn his attention to the form-filling disaster of society and give personal responsibility to those who are left to ensure that things are done well and properly. Time to give power as well as responsibility back. Time to de-centralise.

Wilhelm

No mention of the elephant in the room I see. The tsunami of immigration into this country changing the make up of England, we all know why liebour is doing it because ehnics tend to vote liebour. And the tories are scared shitless being labeled racist. So Britain becomes a muslim country because everyone is too frightened to squeek.

C Powell

Re (2): giving people back their right to privacy (see, for instance, the government's ludicrous and sinister proposal that we have to tell them every detail of our travel plans in advance or be fined(!!)) is essential to this, as well as repealing Labour's most egregious assaults on our liberties and freedoms. I would like to see much much more details from the Tories on this. Promising not to implement ID cards is a start but not, by any means, sufficient.

(3) More will need to be done to make savings attractive e.g. remove all taxation on savings / challenging the Quantitative Easing policy which will destroy the real value of savings and hammers all those about to retire in the next few years.

(4) All welfare reform will require us to exercise judgment. See the excellent interview with Tom Harris in the Sunday Times. If he, a Labour MP, can see that providing money to the feckless without exercising any sort of value judgment is wrong, then surely the Tories can too.

(5) LEAs will need to be abolished. And, pace point (2), the role of local authorities needs to be rethought. Too many of them are mini-empire builders getting involved in all sorts of unnecessary activities purely to boost the self-importance of councillors and their bureaucracy. Beyond picking up litter, collecting waste, maintaining libraries, parks and sorting out roads what else, really, do local authorities need to do?

Colin

1. Agree, but why bother if we'll just get more of the same on the big policy area's ?

2. Specifics needed. Given the lack of room for maneuver on economy, this could be a real winner. Not sure about more power to local authorities - they abuse what power they have as it is.

3. Great, if you happen to be rich. Without a personal debt amnesty - the level of personal, unsecured debt is one of the biggest elephants in the UK economic living room. Not sure how this can be achieved in the short to medium term.

4. Again, specifics needed. The problem is, this essentially means cutting benefits and the number of people on benefits. How will he deal with the fall out from this - homeless, starving, lawlessness ...? Unless of course, like blair, he doesn't have the guts or the wit to actually deal with the problem.

5. More grammar schools, tax breaks for independent schools, summary dismissal for crap teachers, drive politics out of the classroom, all students taught in english?

No, I didn't think so either...

In my view, possibly one good reason, at best.

David Ossitt

TrevorsDen

On the button; only a little more effing if you please!

C Powell

Rhoda: please don't give up on liberty. I feel strongly about this as does Kevyn B (I think). This matters - not just for us - but for our children. I don't want my children growing up and living in a country where the default assumption is that the government is entitled to spy on everything we do but that we have no or little rights against the state, whatever the blasted HRA says!

Matthew Cain

I think these are rubbish, frankly. http://blog.matthewcain.co.uk/cameron-talking-rubbish/

Rodders

What about getting tough with Islamic/religious extremists and anyone else who doesn't like the British way of doing things?

And immigration? And curbing public spending and a corresponding lightening of the tax burden?

And cutting back on the forest of legislation and regulation?

And just what is their attitude towards the EU?

jim

He's still thinking it's politics as usual, but it isn't.
More reports out today on collapsing tax revenue. Quantative easing us about to cause massive inflation, so say goodbye to your pension and savings. If you keep your job over the next few years you should consider yourself lucky.
The only thing he is correct about is that people will have more power over their lives, as there won't be a welfare state anymore.

john miller

You know, I've decided Eton and a high forehead really are accidents of birth rather than any real indication of fitness for office.

By now, (1) should have been so bleedin' obvious that Labour's poll ratings should be below 20%. It shouldn't be worth mentioning. It's an appeal to get rid of the nasty boy in the playground.

(2), (3) and (5) are good.

(4) is truly pathetic and betrays the same over-arching belief in the power of the state that Brown has. If the Tories think they can "mend" a "broken society" with a Blue Band-Aid they are sadly mistaken. They are even more sadly mistaken if they think any floating voters will believe them.

He should have included the police and the NHS.

Bluebottle

I too, would like to see "something about liberties" as Rhoda says. To my mind the restoration of our ancient freedoms is far, far more important than "devolving power" and "mending a broken society", admirable though they may be. Liberty is so precious, yet so easily taken from us, as Labour have shown time and again, without I might add, much of a murmur of dissent (with one or two notable exceptions)or promises to reverse the policy from the Tories.

Churchill won the 1950 election (I think) promising to "Set the People Free", from an overbearing and nannying Labour government and Cameron could do worse than take up those cudgels and that battle-cry once again.

I came into this world a freeborn Englishman and I like to think I will die one. I won't if Labour get in again

Verity

Rhoda K says she doesn't have many problems with the answers Cameron gives. Well, I do. They're weak and nebulous. He makes no firm commitments.

And "getting rid of an exhausted Labour government" is not a reason to vote Tory. There are other parties to vote for, so this was a typical, vapid non-answer from Cameron.

My personal opinion is, he has absolutely no idea of what the Tories would do in government, but thinks he can buck-and-wing it until an idea hits.

Strapworld mentioned the critically important Lisbon Treaty and the whole EU issue, and this was not addressed.

Herbert Thornton

He might just as well have declared these -

1. Resurrect Britain's tin mining and export industry.

2. Establish a Ministry of Global warming and cooling.

3. Require Universities to award degrees in Cultural Diversity.

4. Cement the union with Northern Ireland by building a tunnel between Belfast and Liverpool.

5. Make it a crime to speak, write or think favourably of the BNP.

That'd bring the votes in - wouldn't it?

Verity

What happened to my comment? That is two comments that appear to have been spiked today.

You're going the right way to losing your commentariat, or watering it down. How is it that Rodders can get a comment on Islamic immigration through, and I cannot?

Susan Hill

Cameron has demonstrated to me by these answers that he is a centre/leftist.. conservative-lite... he is indeed heir to Blair not heir to Thatcher. These answers could have come from anyone in the vague middle..
He doesn`t look at a single one of the serious issues that concern almost every sane man and woman in the country.
1. Immigration. The person above who said they were terrified if being seen as racist is spot on. But this is not a racist issue - there are too many immigrants, period. Some are black, some brown, many white, some from the Middle East, many from Europe both old and new..It is a quesion of NUMBERS. There are too many of them and our NHS, education, welfare and housing are collapsing under the strain. The British are not intolerant. Note how many Ugandan Asians arrived 30 years ago with nothing, settled, worked damned hard, were law abiding, paid taxes... and had respect for the country which gave them shelter from an evil regime.
But people do become racist when they see Moslim terrorists preaching hatred in our midst, spewing forth their vile doctrines, attacking us and our culture, mores, religion, values and freedoms while taking from us everything they can get their hands on. People object to being told that we must not offend them while allowing them to offend us on all fronts.People do not object to Mosques on their street corners if Christian churches and Jewish synagogues are not under attack by those who attend those mosques.
These are issues which will not go away yet the Tories are scared of them. Well, if the vile BNP gains strength because people vote for them after despairing of the Tories they will have only themselves to blame.
They are good on education but they need to shout louder about how NuLab has allowed our education system to become a prey to political correctness while standards have plummeted. We have betrayed 2 generations of our children and they need to hammer this home over and over again. Wy does poor, ignorant Jade Goody want to earn money by her dying ? To send her sons to private school because she says she does not want them to be as uneducated as she is.
I note not a word about the multi layers of Management padding in the NHS. Not a word about WASTE in our town halls and all areas of local government. God knows we don`t want some of the PC dolts in our town halls to have any more power.
The free market ? Personal responsibility ? Support for traditional marriage ? Would there be a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty ?
And as far as foreign policy goes, he hasn`t mentioned it 0 the rest of the world might not exist.
What about our armed forces ? Would he give them better equipment and working conditions and back-up ? Who knows ?
He has given me absolutely no cause for hope that a Conservative government would be much different from a NuLab one. He is indeed heirtoBlair and I am heir to despair.

teledu

Can we start asking our political leaders questions they would rather NOT answer?
1) The people are p*ssed off with the EU. What are you going to do about it?
2) Immigration. The people want it ended: now. What is your policy on immigration?
3) ECHR. Will you take Britain out of it and if not, why not?
4) MPs abuse of expenses. Why the f@@@ don't you propose strict controls on them?
5) Iran. Would you back the USA/Israel if they decided to nuke it?
These buggers are paid by us. Make them squirm.

Tiberius

Right, now that's out of the way, can we go back to arguing about the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly?

Verity

Susan Hill - Brava!!!!

Also, what Herbert Thornton said.

Hawkeye

George Laird said: "So Cameron uses an old rehashed trick by Gordon Brown."

No. Rhoda used an old Brown trick and Cameron answered the question. You are blaming Cameron incorrectly.

Having said that, I disagree with his choices. I would have had:

1. Scrapping wasteful projects - ID cards, etc
2. Restoring civil liberties
3. The restoration of the economy
4. Immigration
5. The creating of a constitution as protection against abuse by future Labour administrations.

6. (I know, I know....) The primacy of British law over European law
7. Restructuring of the benefit system to allow a total of 10 years benefit in a 40 year working life.
8. Making socialism illegal..... Hey c'mon - you know we should!

Verity

Hawkeye - "Scrapping wasteful projects - ID cards, etc"

You object to ID cards because they're WASTEFUL???

You add: "7. Restructuring of the benefit system to allow a total of 10 years benefit in a 40 year working life."

Ten years???

When I lived in Texas and a company I worked for merged with another, I and all my colleagues were down at the unemployment office the next morning. People were walking away from the counter looking pale. Maximum public assistance in Texas is 13 weeks. After that, you're on your own.

They are correct. It's taxpayer money that we were getting for those 13 weeks. And there were jobs out there. Not jobs that furthered our careers, but paid money to live on. We took the jobs and looked in our spare time.

We all got re-situated. No one died of starvation or had their phone cut off. I believe in Minnesota - it may be Wisconsin -, you can't apply for unemployment benefits a second time in under three years.

The Americans, by and large, other than crap places like Massachusetts, are deft guardians of taxpayer dollars.

JohnAnt

These are not adequate reasons to vote Tory. More power over our lives - excuse me, just as the IMF starts to print more money? How illusory is 'more power over our lives'. We want more government intervention where it matters.
More Local Authority power - Oh. My. God.
No Tory policies on a cohesive society, an end to third-world immigration, terrorism.
Mend the broken society indeed. What about people's pensions, taxes?
Education - bring back the grammar schools, toff!
There's a fire on - this is just a dripping tap as a response.

Ruby Duck

5 reasons for voting Tory ?
Will Cameron let me buy aspirins in a big bottle like I used to instead of 32 at a time in environmentally damaging plastic bubbles ?
Will Cameron let me install my own central heating, climb a ladder to wash my windows, or defend my home against intruders ?
Will Cameron let me express an opinion in the workplace instead of biting my tongue for fear of dismissal for racism, sexism, ageism (or just about anything that has nothing to do with doing the job) ?
Will Cameron restore the catchment areas for schools so that we don't sit in traffic for two hours a day to take a 5 year old to a school on the other side of town because the one across the road is full of children from the other side of town?
Will Cameron abolish tuition fees and reinstate grammar schools ?
Will Cameron demolish the next generation of ugly slums (flats and garden-less townhouses) that have sprung up on every square foot of 'brownfield' in my town ?

Roy

Unless the reasons he mentions cover a broad span he must assume their is little to be done. More likely perhaps he wishes to acquire power then submit an agenda more in keeping with majority views. Relying primarily on being elected by the publics need for a change. With no need for crass promises bound to upset certain voters.

dilys

A yes, radical school reform.
We have been getting that since Sir Keith Joseph and look at the state of things now. All seems like more of the same to me. When thay get in power they will bleat for 5 years well look what we inherited while making sure that their directorships protect them from what the rest of us will suffer.

Hawkeye

Verity:

I object to ID cards on principle, and I want them scrapped because of that. I merely include them under "wasteful" because, allong with projects like the NHS IT system, Email database, etc, not only are they an affront to civil liberties, but at a time when the public finances are tanking they are massively wasteful too.

See how shorter and succint my original post was?

As for the 10 years of benefit - the implementation is everything. You could allow someone to sit on benefits for 10 years and never allow another claim. Alternatively you could allow 1 year on benefits after which you cannot claim for a further 3 years (i.e. one year out of every four).

Another alternative (we'll call it the Verity model) is to allow 13 weeks of claims in any 52 weeks.

oldtimer

The answers sound OK to me. They provide cover for a multitude of radical policies. We cannot possibly know, if/when he is elected, whether he has the will, the HoC majority and the financial means to carry them through. It seems to me to be possible and worth my vote.

I saw a part of his opening remarks yesterday. The bit that struck me was his comment on the need to carry people with him. Posters here are interested in and articulate about politics - a relatively small minority of the voting public. Voting habits die hard - hence the strong core votes enjoyed by both Labour and Conservative parties, despite their incompetence when in office.

I am reminded of the first sentence of Mrs Beeton`s recipe for jugged hare. "First catch your hare." Cameron is in this position - first he must catch his "hare", the electorate. So far he is, I believe, going about it in a sensible way.

Rhoda Klapp

When I said I was mostly staisfied with the answers, I meant that they were real things coming from the party leader. I don't think they are the best five answers there could have been, but that would have required the party to declare things it has not even approached so far. I believe Cameron was asked a referendum question, maybe not the right one, and he declared a policy of no expansion of EU powers. One he could not deliver under Lisbon or indeed without Lisbon, and one that is not enough for most people here. People who probably are in the group that the tories rely on as a core, people who have nowhere else to go come election day. Well, in June we get a free vote. We'll see whether we have anywhere else to go.

The question was always an attempt to get Cameron to position himself. Now we know this is his chosen position, these are the essentials of his bid for power. We can decide on the basis of this, and how likely we think it is that he will deliver.

And if at the end, as a right-sided small c conservative with a libertarian streak, I still think of the tories as 'they' rather than 'we', at least we know a little of where we stand.

Mick

He should give these five to Eric Pickles to turn into doorstep points. None of these would make a very appealing coffee mug. Although I know most in this forum would advocate an approach as far away as Blair's five pledges in '97, they did form a very powerful campaigning message of positive action in the electorate's mind and these Cameron points need to have more tangible relevance if they are going to win over voters.

Liz Brown

1) Re-instate all our civil liberties lost under this lot. Forget ID cards and eborders for exit
2)repeal all 3,000+ Laws introduced since 1997
3) take us out of Europe
4) expel all illegal immigrants and asylum seekers ( the majority of who are fraudulent
5) End all "equality/diversity programmes.Eliminate quangoes, 5 a day busybodies and etcs
and that's just for starters!

Verity

What Liz Brown said. I would comment on her point No 4 that the majority of "asylum seekers" are fraudulent by adding that 100% of them are fraudulent, because asylum seekers are supposed to apply in the first safe country they come to. Britain is the furthest country before you get to the Atlantic, meaning these people weighed up the merits of many places and decided Britain would pay off the best.

Since all "asylum seekers" seem to be adherents of the "religion of peace", places like Libya would be ideally placed to accept them. Or Saudi Arabia. They are nothing to do with us. I have mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating: any Islamic country is obliged to take them in under their religious laws. Islam does not recognise national boundaries. Every Islamic country is part of Dar es Salaam - the land of Islam. They are all citizens of each others' lands, so they wouldnt even have to turn up with false papers and streams of lies. They could just walk right in.

I wonder why they don't.

David Ossitt

Verity.

I wonder why they don't.

No you don't; you understand precisely why they don't.

You also know exactly why they want to come to the UK.