The Tories' current plans would leave national debt 60% higher than it is today

Publius

In the current infantilised climate, telling the masses they can't keep on spending is tantamount to telling an alcoholic that you're taking the booze away.

There is a need, as there has always been a need, for political rhetoric... by which I mean a certain prudence and moderation of expression.

sheepdip

Not surprised you've run off. Hope you're taking Tim Mongomerie with you.

oldtimer

You said:
"P.S. I'm off to the Middle East until Thursday, so I won't be blogging as much. And this also means you can be as rude about me as you like in the comments."

So you have been editing out the really rude comments then?

TrevorsDen

The solution is easy Mr Nelson - put your magic wand in the post to David Cameron.
I think all you deserve is sarcasm not rudery.

Its clear you are the new 'Mr wants it both ways'

Tories cannot raise taxes on the rich oh no thats not the way. But then you complain about the Tories not reducing debt fast enough.

I cannot help but see a significant element of self justification in this post following some widespread rejection of your attack over 45p

Next time you see Brown you can exchange views about life in the bunker.

Long the UK

Cameron & Osborne continue to muddle the economic crash. Now that we can gone vertical on the L and are moving into the horizontal part of the L it is imperative to focus on wealth creation.

Ted C

Clever graphic but last time debt decline in real terms was 1945, its declined as %tage GDP since but public debt has risen every year since.

Debt following the 1991/92 recession rose as %tage of GDP into financial year 96/97. 5 years with spending cuts and tax rises before it turned.

With a bigger deficit to start with, the Conservatives plans are very close to limit of what would be publicly acceptable.They'll need to raise taxes as well as cut spending to achieve anything close to the outcome shown, as the assumptions at start are already outdated with borrowing higher.

Hayward Maberley

A quick question, does a billion used here refer to a UK one of million million or is it a US one of a thousand million?

David Ossitt

Fraser do enjoy your trip; why would anyone want to be rude to you?

This post has nothing to do with your subject, I just thought some might be pleased to know.

Today it is only 467 days until the 3rd June 2010, the last possible day for Gordon Brown to hold the general election

Rejoice!

Tiberius

I don't think you're guilty of treason, Fraser, and it's good that this blog isn't a Tory Soviet, but I think you've been light on acknowledging that Cameron and Osborne may just have called this right.

Unlike Screwtape, I don't think they are going sit on their hands while in government and let the worst effects of the NuLab era continue. Right from his conference speech of 2005, we have heard enough from Cameron to know that he intends to get us where we want to end up. But as he said when he won the leadership, it's not going to be a cake-walk.

Politics is dirty, and at present the British version is a particularly dark shade of Brown.

Nick Kaplan

Well said Fraser, it is nice to see that you are, unlike some here, commited to conservatism rather than merely the Conservative party regardless of what it says or does.

Moreover, your disagreeing with Camerson is in no way a case of treason. Loyalty is about a lot more than mindlessly agreeing with everything a leader says. It is about supporting a leaders cause, and being brave enough to highlight when that leader is on the wrong path.

Cameron has some excellent ideas (shcool reform, welfare reform etc), but it is necesary for those of us actually wanting to see other improvements in the country to highlight where we think he is going wrong and the question of debt and public spending is a good place to start.

Verity

Fraser has pointed to what needs to be illuminated.

Where are you going in the ME? Like the curate's egg, it's good in parts. I hope you're going to wonderful Jordan, a little beacon for democracy and civilisation. The Jordanians are wonderful.

Kate

Great piece in the NoW today btw, something about how the top 1% pay 23% of tax and an argument that it's all 22 times too much. Diatribe against George and the politics of envy I think.

Sheeesh, there's framing, distortion and, well, plain stupidity. Still, it's the NoW and there may some suckers reading it. I'd try the MoS next time though: any simpletons believing in this generally take Dacre's word for it.

Steve

Of course debt will continue to go up when the Tories get in, but only in the short term. Making spending cuts initially costs money, laying off all those wasteful civil servants will mean redundancy packages and jobseekers allowance and loss of tax revenue. It will take a few years before this equals a reduction in debt but it will be worth it. Put it this way Fraser, who do you trust with our nations finances - Labour or the Tories?

Hawkeye

Look at the graph. Even to make "Dave's blue line" go horizontal will require a herculean slashing of public spending.

Fraser - would you prefer that we let Brown back in and follow his projected debt plan instead?

Debt is going to go up before it comes down and that's just the way it is. I don't like it either, but I'm not going to whinge about the necessity of it. Just remember, it was not Cameron and his tories that got us into this mess!

Andrew

Iain Martin, Janet Daley and quite often Fraser really deserve the tag useful idiots.
The Conservatives, taking their lead from David Cameron, are engaged in a massive exercise in expectation management with the British voter.
Judge them by their actions. Cameron is a true Tory who ultimately sticks to his beliefs and does what he says he`ll do. EPP being the most recent example

Verity

Nick Kaplan writes: "Cameron has some excellent ideas ..."

He does?

He's accepted the social democrat party line almost wholesale, with a twiddle here and a tweak there. But over all, he toes the Euro social democrat party line. For an invigorating and telling column, read Peter Hitchens today. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1163706/PETER-HITCHENS-A-common-sense-copper--last.html

Tel, Spain

Fraser, still spinning for Brown I see. I'm starting to wonder if you're one of his 'special friends'. Have you ever heard the phrase divide and rule?

Jules, London, England

With friends like Fraser Nelson Cameron and Osborne don't need enemies. I see it like this Fraser, I would rather have the next govenment be a Tory one (no matter how wet) than a Labour one. But if this carries on we could have Brown until 2015.

Daniella

Conservatives would do well to heed the wise words of one Anthony Charles Lyton Blair:

"Power without principle is barren, but principle without power is futile."

When trying to persuade the party dinosaurs to prepare for government and to change and modernise I do believe.

Will Yoxall

Reducing the deficit is exactly the reason that puplic spending must be cut and that taxes at both the basic and higher rates must go up. I don't like it but the situation demands this course of action.

Athesius the Facilitator

Fraser; has Gordon been letting you have a go on his rocking horse. You are being so unfair on the Tory's lately I'm now thinking you may be a plant.

TreversDen; you are spot on.

TGF UKIP

Fraser, first of all could you please provide a link to your NoW column - if I go directly to the Screws site all I can access are your columns up to last Sunday.

More importantly though while I am sure your Dave's debt story is fascinating and important the really big political story in the paper is that on Nigel Griffiths headlined:

"MP HAS SEX ROMP IN COMMONS"

Great and detailed story complete with photos with which Guido is really having some fun at order-order.com.

I really do encourage all Coffee Housers to hie on over to notw.co.uk especially as there is no more loathsome specimen of the Labour jockocracy than mate and Best Man of Gordon, the venal, sleazy and hypocritical Griffiths.

This is a story that even the current crop of Tory MPs will find difficult to live down to.

Meanwhile,Fraser, you are quite right to draw attention to just how threadbare, contradictory and downright unconvincing the current Dave economic stance really is.

And I'm afraid Will Yoxall's that view that "taxes at both the basic and higher rates must go up" could not be more precisely wrong.

What is going to reduce the deficit most speedily and effectively is vigorous economic growth and you most certainly don't get that through higher taxation especially higher direct personal and corporate taxation. Growth comes when personal income and capital and taxes are cut across the board. To create the space for such tax cuts, public spending will have to be cut quickly and deeply.

That such a course is obviously completely counter to Camerons social democratic instincts is a central reason why no conservative should be considering voting for the Cameron Tories.

TrevorsDen

Verity - as Ted C has pointed out Fraser is being disingenuous.

And also cussed ('stubbornly persistent in wrongdoing ')

Billion is thousand million and has been officially that in Britain for a very long time.

Indeed Ted C's remarks make salutary reading.

I suggest that for his next graph Nelson contact Mann (et al) to learn how to design graphs to suit the prejudice.

Vigorous economic growth, UKIP? Where from? Sloshing money at the rich?
In case you are terminally stunted in your attention span let me remind you the Bank of England is currently pouring new money into the economy to the tune of £150 billions.
The current account deficit is heading towards £120 billion
And you would like to pour oil onto that fire?
This QE will have failed if it does not produce significant inflation.

I for one Mr delusional UKIP will take your not so objective (indeed studiously blinkered) advice with a pinch of salt.

Anan

Fraser's deep hatred and jealousy of David Cameron has now boiled over after the 45% tax rate approval from the Conservatives. In response he writes a load of rubbish about debt levels to try and reduce Conservative support from the News of the World demographic. I hope Osborne will check Frasy's earnings and apply a special band of 50% for him and and other similar jealous fools.

David Ossitt

Nick Kaplan.

Well said Fraser, it is nice to see that you are, unlike some here, commited to conservatism rather than merely the Conservative party regardless of what it says or does.

This is a bit of a snide remark; being committed to the Conservative Party regardless, is in fact a necessity if you are to be a member, because the consevative party has such a broad base.

There has to be room for left right and centre opinion or else we will not exist.

Some of us might be to the right of Genghis Khan or to the left of David Cameron but all are welcome; as for me, I am a nudge to the right of the blessed Margaret.

Rejoice! Gordon has a maximum of 466 days left.