Even the left is beginning to abandon the idea of change from above

Moraymint

"socialism of equality, freedom and solidarity – not dictated by the few from above, but made by the many from below”

Sounds like the same old socialist fudge to me. When all's said and done, for any sort of socialism to work, funnily enough you have to start with entrepreneurs, profits and taxation. Then you can get down to the business of doing good things with the takings. Which, by definition, is not socialism; it's capitalism. And nobody has yet come up with a clearer, more effective and efficient way of creating wealth and making life better for many, many people. So, let's not be seduced by another wolf in sheep's clothing. Look where Blair's "Third Way" got us. Throw in Brown's barmy economics (essentially assuming that money grows on trees) and you end up with economic catastrophe a la UK today. Ironically, our next big challenge will be social unrest as Brownomics really kicks in and the likes of attacks on Sir Fred's Edinburgh pile become commonplace. Brown's idea of socialism (for that's his creed) is about to render the UK into little more than a restless banana republic, for a decade at least. How nice.

Forget socialism once and for all; it'll never work.

Andy

Whereas I just want a change of government.

mac

I'll pass on the free download, thanks:
Moraymint's quote, commentary and conclusion are sufficient.

AndyLeeds

When are people going to wake up to the fact that Socialism in all its variants has laid waste to everything it has ever touched. Just how many millions have died because of this evil, wicked creed ? How can any one believe in it ??

TrevorsDen

Good point Mr Forsyth.

Many confuse Capitalism with Corporatism. Labour rewarded Goodwin for his merger mania. RBS collapsed as a result.

Wikipedia (yes I know) says
"Political scientists may also use the term corporatism to describe a practice whereby a state, through the process of licensing and regulating officially-incorporated social, religious, economic, or popular organizations, effectively co-opts their leadership or circumscribes their ability to challenge state authority by establishing the state as the source of their legitimacy, as well as sometimes running them, either directly or indirectly through corporations"

Hmmm... Just how many bankers did Brown hire to run all his 'independent' reviews?

Fergus Pickering

But WE want Balls to win, do we not? On the Foot principal. Nobody will vote for the fat creep. Should keep the bastards out for twenty years.

Nicholas

When socialists talk of "equality, freedom and solidarity" it always means the same thing and always requires the same means. There have been too many individual victims of the state's good intentions for the "socialist experiment" to be pursued any further, regardless of the credit crunch last gasp opportunity provided to these sad old delusional lefties living in the past. The Left deserves to be laughed at (very hard) and scorned. They have done enough damage in the name of bloody socialism and speculation about the future of the Labour party (it has none - it is as redundant as the thousands of jobs it has conspired to destroy) only encourages the idiots.

Having enjoyed (?) an involuntary break from the political scene it leaves me jaded to find nothing has changed. The insane Brown is still huffing and puffing, spinning like mad with his Labour cronies, covered by his pals at the BBC and the MM are still letting him get away with it. He still has his 30% of Labour diehards to ensure election victory in gerrymandered England and the lies and deceit continue.

Courage to force a change? There is none.

Verity

Nicholas - Agree. Bleak. There is no will and no courage. They think David Cameron is a Conservative and will do ... what? He hasn't confided in the electorate and whatever plans he has in mind, if any, he does not have the political strength to deliver. From Day One, he came across as weak, weak, weak. All the whistles and bells to make him look effective and leaderish failed from the start. He is blown about by events. He doesn't have a quick wit or a memorable turn of phrase.

Which is why he had to hammer in consciousness by flying to Norway in a parka and putting himself up on an ice floe with two A-List Huskies. He lost. Anders and Nils won.

cuffleyburgers

“socialism of equality, freedom and solidarity – not dictated by the few from above, but made by the many from below.”

Which is of course a contradiction in terms. Socialism is inescapably dependent on authoritarianism. The proceeds of the efforts of the productive is removed from them (at gunpoint effectively) and distributed as the leader sees fit. Sometimes he buys stuff for himself and his friends (Zimbabwe) and sometimes he buys votes (GB).

Inevitably after a while the whole shebang collapses, as we are seeing now.

The pathetic message these inadequates are trying to convey is the clearenst posible demonstration (as if such were needed as we look at the smoking ruins of our country) of the utter intellectual bankrupcy of the present government.

When is Cameron going to savage Brown in the House like Hannan did in Brussels???

RW

"Socialism of equality, freedom and solidarity – not dictated by the few from above, but made by the many from below."

Some things never change; they just get recycled under a ponderous new title by people who've forgotten their Marx and his "Dictatorship of the Proletariat". No thanks.

cityboozer

"not dictated by the few from above, but made by the many from below"

Those damned socialists still don't get it. Even after a couple of decades of multiculturalism they still haven't realised that there is no such thing as "the many", but a near-infinity of possible electoral and interest coalitions. They may like to speak for their abstract "many" but they do not represent very many real "many"s.

Chuck Unsworth

These two 'authors' seem to be calling for a form of Democracy. I don't think they've quite understood - they certainly don't seem to have read very much. JK Galbraith would've been a very good start.

HJ

"Socialism of equality, freedom and solidarity – not dictated by the few from above, but made by the many from below."

Hold on a minute - if it's "made by the many from below", then how can these two Jons call it socialism and stipulate what it will be like? If "the many" can choose for themselves, then surely they can then choose whatever they individually want and therefore it's not socialism. Voluntary co-operation, perhaps yes, socialism, no.

Tim Worstall

It's, umm, a little confused, it has to be said.

http://timworstall.com/2009/03/27/the-crash/

Dave B

If Labour were to abandon big state government, the future could be excellent for small state conservatives. :-)