The Tories need to wake up to the anti-politician atmosphere

Verity

It's true that it's very much "a plague on both your houses", but that is partly because there is not a slivver of a difference between the Labour social democrats and the Tory social democrats.

I think if the electorate were offered a choice, some enthusiasm might yet be engendered.

John Lea

His repsonse reeked of arrogance and self-importance. His constituency home is only 37 miles from Westminster, yet he claims for a second home. He argued that he did try commuting a few times, but it wasn't really for him. Why? Well, in order to make important committee meetings at 9.30 he often had to leave home at 5.30am. No one on the panel thought to ask why it took him 4 hours to travel 37 miles. Oh, and he only claims 60% (or was it 55%) of what he is entitled to. Bless him. It was a shameful performance.

Mark

"one of their more popular figures"

Seriously - what evidence do you have that he's popular? Most people have never even heard of him. He's northern, and has qualities which might make him appealing in theory - but he's much to obscure to have made any impact on the public outside the Westminster village.

Kevyn Bodman

No.
A cut in pay is wrong.

It is not that an MP's or Minister's salary is too high.
It is not that expenses should not be paid.

The problem is the fiddles.
Go after dishonesty.
Target the corrupt.
Open up payment records and require receipts for expenses.We've read these ideas from commenters here before.
Change the rules over second home alowance.
Provide an MP's hostel if necessary.

But work deserves pay.Salaries, which should be measured against a Civil Service grade because there is no other feasible way to set them, should not be cut.

William Church

It was embarassing to watch the mob-mentality get the better of the Newcastle audience on last night's question time. Pickles started well, and though his response to the expenses question was rambling and ineffective, the public should not be so eager to scourn our elected representatives, especially someone as balanced, efficient and driven as Pickles.

The current cabinet is dreadful, but it is allowed to claim expenses in order to live near to Westminster when necessary. This is a very good thing. Pickles' commute is about 1h 20m by national rail/ London underground though he is right to make clear that he needs to leave an hour or more early in order to ensure his punctuality. If the cabinet, or for that matter any MP had to commute such that their performance and stamina were to be impeded by their travel arrangments we should as a nation pay for them to live near Westminster. However many millions of pounds we spend on MPs expenses, as long as the system isn't abused the figure is tiny in comparison to huge unnecessary costs like the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies and policies like the VAT cut. Imagine how dreadful the Labour front bench would be if they were running 20 hour days or longer, they look depressed, stressed and ruined quite enough as it is.

I am not against measured reform in the expenses system in order to prevent exploitation by people who want to pay for their relatives' homes, but last night's Question Time audience behaved atrociously and if they represent the views of the country then we should be embarrassed to call ourselves a functional democracy. People need to be more rational about the requirements which are needed in order to create an environment where our house of commons, of which we should be proud, can work at its best.

Bernie Gudgeon

Must admit, even I've been taken back by the growing contempt with which they're viewed.

Austin Barry

The howls of execration from the usually catatonic QT audience that greeted the fugitive and just plain silly efforts of Pickles and Clarke to explain away MPs'dodgy expense claims was magical. Come the revolution?

Pete, Scotland

MP's and all highly paid Government top dogs are all the same: overpaid EU beurocrats.

Time to get back to simpler times where MP's were our representatives rather than our masters.

Or is it too late now?

Pete Hoskin

Mark: fair point. I've now qualified that observation above.

I suspect he may be less popular after last night!

George Laird

Dear All

At the time of the Tory reshuffle I claimed that Eric Pickles was the wrong man to be Chairman of the Tory Party.

It is nice of Mr. Pickles to prove me so publicly correct.

Thanks Eric.

If only this gift from the gods could work on the lottery for me!

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Verity

Mark - you're wrong. He is widely known. When he was on Iain Dale's, he was deluged with questions.

Hysteria

Look - isn't the point here (that he hinted at in his defence) that the structure of the proceedings in the HoC is all screwed up. If I was on a major project leading to midnight finishes, my company would not expect me to have to commute for e couple of hours home then back again the next day - I would be in a hotel almost regardless of the distance.

Now this does not mean they would pay for two houses!!!! So we need to look at the procedural issues, consider barracks accommodation, a radius limit etc.

The underlying point that people are sharpening their pitchforks remains a good one.....

Peter

I am a Tory voter but was squirming in embarassment as Pickles just dug a bigger and bigger hole for himself on QT last night. It showed him as an out of touch and arrogant. Many 100s of thousands of people do what he has to do every day, i.e. get up, travel 37 miles and arrive at work on time. Difference is thay do not trouser a massive tax free allowance to do it. Also no one took him to task on the fact that the House only sits for about 30 weeks a year and effectively only Tuesday to Thursday. No wonder there is a deafening silence from Cameron and Co on the likes of Smith and McNulty

R Whitehand

Just when you thought the Tories could get one over on the Labour parasites who claim for every expence they can, the truth dawns that our side, The Tories, also have some parasites too. No wonder the Big Guns don't say much about these frauds on the public. It draws their attention to the fact that, sadly and very unfortunately, some of our lot are at it too. The so far squeeky clean Lib Dems will gain votes from this which they do not deserve.
It's time for a loud and clear statement on this matter from Cameron or someone close to him.

James

The Tories should do what the Irish government have done and say there will be cuts accross the board. If the people are suffering then so will government and officialdom. Start by cutting government and public sector pay and show the people the Tories will lead from the front.

F Wright

Pickles got totally pickled. He tanked big-time, mainly because he appear to live not 37 miles from London, but quite clearly in another universe.

Disgusted

If MP's try to increase their pay, during a recession, by 40k there will be riots I'm telling you. This country is going bankrupt and MP's just don't get it, they carry on leeching off taxpayers. Their pay should be CUT not increased.

Death or Tory

What a dismal performance! - mind you, defending the indefensible is never easy.

This second-homes gravy train must be derailed and quickly.

I'm sure there will be howls of dissent from Conservative MPs as well as MPs of other Parties, but DC has got to grab the moral high-ground on this.

Incidentally, I spent years getting up EVERY DAY at 5.30am to go to work - and I was a poor bl**dy civil servant!!

Pickles, you are out-of-order and should be ashamed of that mealy-mouthed, so-called 'defence' of your need to claim a second-home allowance - try sleeping on the train in the morning, like the rest of us!...

THX1138

I wonder how much Hanann costs us flying fist class between London & Brussels, second home allowances and general EU trough gobbling?

David Ossitt

Mark.

He's northern.

What on earth has that got to do with any of this; (just a mo while I let the whippet's out) so sorry about that but they wanted to chase the ferrets around the pigeon loft.

Now where was I; oh yes, you said "he's northern", could you be a little more explicit do you mean "he's northern" in the sence that he is as thick as three short planks or "he's northern" as in, the salt of the earth calls a spade a spade and quite probably might just come from 'God's Own County', or at least somewhere near to.

It is important to be clear and precise when posting a comment lest your suspected of expressing one of those dreadful ism's that the PC brother/sisterhood condemn.

Hang on a bit; (her indoors wants to know if I want tripe and onions or chitterlings for my tea), I told her, 'I want dripping and bread'.

Do you see what I mean; it is very important that your post is not open to the charge of being, ambiguous.

Keep on trying; I am sure that you will soon get the hang of it!

Paul

My wife is a teacher and she commutes 55 miles each way to work to start at 8:45. She leave work at 6pm to get home for 7:30 only because the school closes it's gates. She then will work until 10 or 11pm in the house.
She gets no second home allowance.
These pompous idiots need to work in the real world for a while. The should make employment out with parliament a requirement for being an MP

se1man

he had to commute for a whole month!

he has to be there at 9.30am to move amendments!

he is number 2 so he's important but it doesn't matter if a Lib Dem isn't there!

what an appallingly self-satisfied lump of smugness.

and we're paying for these muppets?

a plague on all their, er, houses.

Sally Chatterjee

It is a sorry mess. Many live much further away and have to be at work on time.

Like many, I have a longer commute than Pickles. I can't even claim the cost of my rail ticket.

If I work late, I can't claim for a hotel. All I can claim for is a taxi fare to the office to the train station, I must provide a receipt.

Yet MPs get second homes and worse, they get free cash to pay the mortgages meaning they own the home, not the taxpayer.

Hereford

I have always thought of Pickles as the Tory John Prescot. He is inarticulate at best and downright incoherent at worst. I heard him on any questions a few months ago and thought, "why do they keep putting this man in front of the public?"

His performance on this particular program was lamentable. And not just on the second house question.

Mark

Verity, there is an enormous difference between being known to the readers of Iain Dale's blog, and being widely known. Iain Dale, for example, is widely known to the readers of Iain Dale's blog, but most people you meet in the street will have no idea who he is. Reading political blogs is still very much a minority pursuit (I'm in that minority myself, but I know I'm odd).

john problem

He may not appear so but he is a smart fellow and clearly brighter than I am. I'm suffering from tobacco withdrawal symptoms as I struggle on, looking in despair at my old age pension of £90 per week. Yes, that's £90 per week. The lowest in Europe. Our leaders need to do something about the fabric of our British society, before all we Old Age Pensioners take to the streets and invade Parliament Square, embarrassing the gilded socks off our leaders, waving huge banners saying 'Bring in the UN.' 'Down with Second Homes!' and 'Transparency Rules!' And we've got a list of those who'll be first in the tumbril. Oh yes.

Jim

Left home at 05:30 to be in the office at 09:30......? For a 37 mile journey?

I don't think so.

And I've commuted into London from a lot further out than 37 miles.

Pete, Scotland

When are we going to get a proper opposition party in this country.

If Harrman set up a party I would vote for him. As, I suspect, would many millions in the UK.

Susan Hill

People are not only coming to see through, despise and loathe politicians more with every day that exposes one more dodgy dealing, they are doing so loudly and publicly. The mood is very angry out there and I honestly do not think many of them have realised it. Fred the Shred`s house won`t be the only one vandalised if they don`t put their own in order.

Kevyn Bodman

Surely Hannan doesn't fly between Brussels and London?
The Eurostar is much more efficient, and much less unpleasant than modern flying.

Furet

Eric - doesn't help himself by
looking like he's scoffed all the pies.

Some commuting would a) get some lbs off and b) give him an insight into what ordinary joes are suffering every day on the iron road.

MPs of all stripes live like "Le Gratin" a bit of real life would do them all good.

john miller

Eric - you tube - man with a face like a thumb...

Its over before it started Eric.

Verity

Mark, well, Iain had a column in The Telegraph for around a year. And he guests on an awful lot of TV shows. I think that people know him.

I'm sorry to read of Eric Pickles's comments because I had quite liked him. But this was very revealing. Thirty seven miles! Oh, dear!

Rhoda Klapp

How's this for a plan. Announce a date by which all MPs must regularise their expenses. After that, anyone caught fiddling will be up for fraud (if you tell your employer it's a second home and it's not, or make other false claims, it's a crime. The commissioner can't just let you off) and all expenses will be treated by HMRC in the same way as for ordinary people. And yes, MPs ought to be forced to commute at rush hour cheek-by-jowl with the public. Did I mention anyone caught fiddling would be suspended pending investigation, and if guilty could not serve as an MP, or in the public sector, or in the Lords, or in the pay of the EU. ever again. If they cannot find their honour, we must find it for them.

Hysteria

THX - Hannan has blogged often about the MEP expense gravy train and how he massivly underclaims (or if you like - claims correctly)

There is a whole culture of bogus claims in Europe - Mr Hanna is not guilty of this - check some of his YouTube items

strapworld

Where is the leader? Did Cameron see the programme last evening? If not he must be aware of how badly Pickles performed. He should have asked for Pickles' resignation immediately. He cannot have a Chairman who cannot master an argument without getting upset and nasty! He is a liability.

William Church, above, talks about the mob mentality of the audience. If Mr Church is indicative of the thinking in Conservative Central Office, then God help us.

The audience expressed what the majority of the people believe, that these expenses are a disgrace. Pickles explanation was absolutely ridiculous.

When the Liberal Democrats as a group do NOT claim these expenses, it shows they are ahead of the game and could capitalise on this.

Even Charles Clark came away better than the awful Pickles.

But my real concern is the lack of leadership from Cameron. He misses a massive open goal by not having a photo opportunity with Mr Hannan, where he could have said he agreed with every word he said! NO, total silence, absolutely nothing. Quite unbelievable. Proof positive that this Blair Tribute Act will not bring the Tories the landslide they deserve but possibly just about get a small majority.

John Redwood for Party Chairman. David Davis for immediate return to the Shadow Cabinet.Ken Clarke Shadow Chancellor. Boy George Shadow Health Secretary.

David Lindsay

Why travel all the way to Newcastle for a Norfolk MP, an Essex MP, a London-Surrey border country MP, a South East MEP, and Michael Winner? They might as well have the thing from London every week.

Apart from that once a year thing, could they at least restrict the audience to people who are old enough to vote? I felt like I had accidentally switched over to Skins.

And why do MPs think that they have a Palace? What's wrong with living in that?

THX1138

Thanks Hysteria - Happy to be corrected, I was taking a flyer.

Cool name BTW

Verity

Strapworld - I think Cameron's in a snit. He doesn't like anyone else getting the limelight. He would never push anyone else forward. Think about it. When has he praised a member of the Shadow Cabinet, or pushed a member of the Shadow Cabinet forward to centre stage.

I suspect he is probably seething about Mr Hannan - not just the excellence of his three minute speech, but the worldwide reaction to it. Would anyone but friends, the Shadow Cabinet and his immediate family search YouTube for a speech given by Cameron? It must be infuriating.

Johnnyboy

Surely all Parliamentary business can be conducted in a chat room via the Internet. Not a single commute would be necessary and the only expense would be a broadband connection. subscription.

Marian C

Jim
March 27th, 2009 5:09pm

"Left home at 05:30 to be in the office at 09:30......? For a 37 mile journey?
I don't think so"

Neither do I Jim; 4 hours to travel 37 miles, good heavens, if that is true, then he must be travelling by pogo stick!

JohnAnt

38 minutes Brentwood BR to L'pool Street, five minutes for a fat person to get to the tube station, then a 12 minute tube ride to the Palace of Westminster.
Of course it's possible Pickles may live in some lovely little cot miles from Brentwood BR.
But then, isn't that his prob?
We all have to make choices - where to live, how to trade off convenience and quality of life. Most of us don't expect the taxpayer to compensate us for our choices though.

JohnAnt

But I've just noticed - on the Right To Know entry for the three month period 01/04/2008-30-06/2008
http://www.conservatives.com/pdf/document-righttoknow3-2008.pdf
Pickles posted his actual expenses for the ACA as £1720 (if you add up all the figures he gives for ACA mortgage and outgoings). That's 4 x 1720 = £6880 per year of actual expenditure.
Yet the 'They Work For You' website gives his ACA Claim for 2006-07 (the latest figures given there) as £16,197. Unless he claimed less than that in 2007-08 and 2008-09 (seems fair to assume he hasn't) then he's been raking in £10,000 a year profit for the second flat, plus its value when he eventually sells it, of course. Minus the CGT, which of course he won't pay if he declares it as his main residence before selling it.
(Also, can anyone follow how a flat "in W'minster" can be financed with a mortgage interest payment of £209 per month? With a 5% mortgage that's a mortgage sum of only £50,000. Perhaps he just means in the Borough of W, which could even be Kilburn. Still.)
Puzzling.

Hysteria

Pickles on a Pogo stick !!! Now THAT would be a sight !!!!

Ian C

The problem was that Pickles was defending s system that there is clearly so much abuse of it that he was perceived as defneding the indefensible.

If his use of the system proves as correct as he says it is all is fine.

But the mob has (rightly) got their teeth into the subject because of Smith & McNulty's abuses and so Pickles was on a hiding to nothing.

That is not to conclude that he is as useless as some have suggested and the mob should stop their appalling baying and go after the real targets.