In search of a broader shadow Cabinet

Duyfken

Names please of the "seven or so".

David

Regarding Pickles, who was admittedly awful on QT as a result of getting the public mood wrong. I don't think for one second that he's a 'trougher', and was among the first MP to voluntarily public his expenses - years ago. To be fair to him, he will most likely turn out to be a very good chairman; don't let this incident convince you otherwise.

George Laird

Dear All

The Tory Shadow Cabinet.

'A body of the rich, picked by the rich, for the rich'.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

seb

Personally I think Pickles is probably totally sunk now. He will be eased out some time before election from diong anything meaningful.

Tiberius

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/6428025.stm

There is the team of 1997.

I'd be interested to know where the talent lay (while acknowledging that if you wanted to assemble a group just to stay in power rather than do anything useful, they're quite a successful bunch of hatchet men and women).

The Magnificent Seven: Cameron, Osborne, Hague, Hammond, Gove, Herbert, Paterson (Hunt would be a definite "or so", and possibly Grieve and Clarke).

David Ossitt

David Davis, John Redwood, Ian Duncan Smith to name but three.

And plan to have Daniel Hannan elected for H of P at the next election; this would certainly give differing styles, it might even convince some that D.C. is a conservative after all.

A J Scott

Dear Mr Laird
Sometimes you are good, sometimes plain banal. Try to refine it, do!

Verity

"The party’s decision to use Cameron for pretty much every significant announcement ..."

The Party's decision, or Cameron's decision?

Methinks the latter. I get the impression that Cameron is a control freak.

Chris

The truth is that we really haven't got many, or indeed to be frank any, very talented people in British politics. George Laird maybe right about the current crop of Tories, but much the same is true of Labour. Blair and his mates came from pretty well the same privileged background. The sad thing for Britain is that public school and Oxbridge, despite what we are told until we're sick of hearing it, does not produce a very good political class.

David Bouvier

The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University:

"Someone who got into trouble with a security guard at college, and really really needs to find some closure"

Faux-witty definitions are such fun.

David Ossitt

George Laird.

I have for over 40 years done my bit canvassing for the consevatives.

I have stood for my local town council on five occasions in the past and won my seat each time.

But I have never ever met a rich consevative; I have met poor ones and some a little bit comfortable but non I met were rich.

Though I did once shake the hand of the Blessed Margaret.

The problem that socialists have with everything is they look to find privilege and merit so as to stamp it out.

Yet use nepotism,discrimination and favouritism at every opportunity.

Jealousy and envy are not pleasant traits; and to see a man the Beast of Bolsover Dennis Skinner in full cry turns my stomach .

Ray

David Davis?

Rob C

@George 4:19pm - The rich comments may be accurate, but as someone self-employed, struggling to make ends meet with a small child, I have far more faith in Cameron's team than Brown's! There are the idle-poor and the working-poor, I don't believe the latter have anything to fear from a Cameron government. I grew up in a single-parent family on a council estate and I can honestly say that the Thatcher/Major years rewarded effort far more than Blair/Brown have. It's been downhill all the way from 1997, and I for one can't wait for election day! Government should be hands-off and about fairness and value-for-money - New Labour have delivered none of these and have betrayed those they are supposed to represent who voted for them. Thankfully, I'm not one of those! My council tax is now nearly as much as my mortgage and that's criminal!

With regard to the shadow cabinet, James is right in that there is significant talent - I'd actually say more than NL in 1997 and we do need to hear more from them! There's always room for improvement however, and there are a few absent names I'd like to see there too.

Dave B

What about the 2005 intake? Douglas Carswell, to the front!

http://www.talkcarswell.com/

James Forsyth

Tiberius, There are three on your list who wouldn't be on mine. But then again that just proves it is a matter of debate.

George Laird

Dear David

I know that this sometimes can be a big ask, especially from a Tory such as yourself.

Could I specifically ask you to reframe from lying about me and publishing lies about me online.

If you knew what you were taking about that would form a basis for discussion.

You don't.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Alex

not greive. his views on the ECHR are a time boom

johnny come lately.

I agree with Verity. Cameron IS a control freak, which is completely different from being a leader.

A leader picks his/her team and lets them get on with the job.

Cameron, like Blair is influenced far too much by the press and his inner circle of public school pals.

As I say he is a 'Blair Tribute Act'

The one's that need to be on the front bench are John Redwood (without any Doubt), David Davis, Mr Hannan,
and Ian Duncan Smith.

I would push out Maude,and all the eton brotherhood, (except had he been there, Boris).

But Cameron wants all the attention, which the Tory party should worry about!

My pal, straps, sent me this - for Gordon Brown:-

“It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”

- Murray N. Rothbard

George Laird

Dear Rob C

It doesn't matter how talented the Shadow Cabinet may or may not be.

If they won't help you, talent is therefore meaningless.

Commitment, deeds and action are the currency people need to see.

Not hope, not a pipe dream and not wishful thinking.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Verity

David - I agree with you about Pickles. Let's see whether Cameron has the bottle to keep him on, or whether he panics, as he did over Patrick Mercer.

THX1138

David O

"David Davis, John Redwood, Ian Duncan Smith to name but three.

The traitor, the alien & the quiet loser.

What about Letwin? I Know he's posh and has wafer thin majority, but he's the right kind of posh (unlike Osborne) and next time round he should get a couple of thousand majority Really they should have give him a nice safe seat so he can get out and about in the country.

I met him once and apart from looking like one of those 80's DR Who's you can't remember the name of he was a cool guy.

David Ossitt

James Forsyth
March 31st, 2009 5:38pm

Tiberius, There are three on your list who wouldn't be on mine.

James only three?

David Ossitt

George Laird
March 31st, 2009 5:56pm

Commitment, deeds and action are the currency people need to see.

George you are an honest man did we, are we getting any of the above from the current crop?

Susan Hill

Michael Gove. Hague. Redwood. Duncan-Smith. (Sound man - just not Our Leader.)

TGF UKIP

Come on James, you can't bottle it like that. Who exactly are the magnificent seven semi-detached shadows of Shadows you find so impressive and please don't disappoint us by leaving Osborne off your list. We all need a laugh in these bleak times.

Tiberius

I'll admit to being a little biased towards Owen Paterson because he's a local MP. But he does get favourable opinion when I've read about him.

The other six shouldn't surprise anyone - should they - James?

James Forsyth

TGF, Yup-Osborne is in it.

oldtimer

You will only discover if they are any good once they get into ministerial office. Then they will either sink, and fall captive to the civil service net and do as they are told, or swim and get the civil service to follow. I am told it is soon obvious to the mandarins whether they are sinkers or swimmers. The new President of the USA is an interesting, not to say critically important, case study.

THX1138

So James if Osborne is one of the Magnificent Seven he must be Chico the young irritating one whose totally of his depth and trots along behind Yul Brynner i.e Dave making an arse of himself.

Rob C

Dear George, (5:56pm)

You're right, but as David Ossitt points out, none of these qualities can be seen in New Labour. In addition, enough of the electorate can now see how they've been deceived and even lied to, and will not vote for them. Given the 'sleaze' and 'nasty party' the Tories carried for many years, this is the 'last chance saloon' as far as many I speak to are concerned. Some, as is often voiced here have serious misgivings or see them only as an 'anything but Brown' ticket too. If they fail to live up to expectations, the opportunity will be there for smaller parties and if anyone 'clean and credible' came forward they'd have a good chance. We have a large proportion of the electorate who are disconnected from politics and don't vote but would for the right person! The Lib Dem's should have an easy ride, but in reality have become a haven for misfits and Tory haters. Most people are also sure they'd make a bigger mess than either or the two main parties. UKIP could be a threat if they were less extreme in some of their policies, but their only real ace is Europe and on that, they alone are really 'in-touch' with comments I hear every day. On the whole however, all the main parties are distrusted and unless they listen AND deliver then I fear for society because there's a lot of anger out there waiting to boil over.

TGF UKIP

James, I really am amazed. Politics is more about perception than reality and Joe Public tuned Osborne out a couple of years back. Even when the Tories had a 20%+ lead last Summer, Dave & Boy George trailed behind Brown and Darling in the economy managing stakes. Then in late january this year in the large sample poll YouGov did in the marginals 39% to 15% said they would prefer Clarke to Osborne in the event that the Tories did win the General Election.

So why is this? It must surely have everything to do with the way that Osborne comes across in the media.

It is, I must admit from a media viewing that I have formed my view of Osborne as an arrogant, lightweight, snidey, venal, sleazy and untrustworthy individual and I must further confess that the Mandelson/Sunday Times and £5k back pocketed in the Channel Islands did play some part in forming my opinion.

Now it may well be that I have completely misjudged the man and he is in reality a self-deprecating, self-effacing, truly impressive individual but I don't know, I've never met the man.

So, knowing some Coffee Housers do circulate in some quite elevated metropolitan circles, I must ask has anyone met Osborne and can tell me I am quite wrong. If so I will gladly recant and publicly apologize to the man.

Has anyone actually met the man?

THX1138

"Has anyone actually met the man?"

TGF I can help you out there - I have met Osborne and so has a friend and it's not a pretty site. I met him at a party and a friend had the unpleasant experience of being on the same table as him at wedding.

Dave was at the party I attended and I managed to have five minutes with him and he was charm personified, funny, gracious, self deprecating and generous with his conversation and hopefully I didn't overstay my welcome although I felt he would have been too polite to tell me. Dave made you feel special' you knew somehow you were being manipulated but somehow you didn't mind. He had star quality- I have friends who have met TB and Bill Clinton and they talk of similar experiences.

At the same party I tried to have a conversation with Osborne and it was just awful. He was off hand and plain rude and just simply turned away to talk to one of his party (not Dave) and waived me away with his hand like you might dismiss a servant or a dog and certainly without any common respect or decency. I walked away thinking what a "C" word not something I use lightly.

So from my first hand albeit limited experience of meeting Osborne I can safely say that "arrogant, lightweight, snidey, venal, sleazy and untrustworthy" is a very fair description of the man

I don't want to go into my friends wedding experience, except to say that it was in a similar vain and as life long Tory lets put it this way shall we they were very disheartened by the experience.

A common thread emerging from those with any kind of direct contact with the man.

Now I would normally link to the Guardian but in this case I will make an exception

From a Corfu beach

"I recognised George Osborne as he led the way. Shouts continued from the parents, which made the Osborne family hurry, but none of them looked back or exuded the air of bashful apology one would expect. Osborne, hearing the protests, simply said, addressing everyone, "It's a pier, that's what it's for." He said it loudly, angrily, without looking at any of those whose afternoon he had spoiled."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/23/georgeosborne-corfu

Now you might say that I shouldn't be put off the man by one bad personal experience but if politics is about anything it's about the personal and many are telling similar stories just like Brown he's
wrong'en. and the public can smell it a mile off.

If Dave doesn't come to his senses and get rid and Osborne does become Chancellor the public are very quickly going to despise George Osborne just like I do.

Verity

TGF UKIP - Not me Gov.

I know I don't trust him. And I don't trust any of his cohorts. I haven't seen any reason to put my faith in this individual or his party. And he sounds ghastly.

Verity

TGI UKIP - I must admit from a media viewing that I have formed my view of Osborne as an arrogant, lightweight, snidey, venal, sleazy and untrustworthy individual and I must further confess that the Mandelson/Sunday Times and £5k back pocketed in the Channel Islands did play some part in forming my opinion.

So, TGF UKIP, what do you really think?

David Ossitt

THX1138
March 31st, 2009 7:04pm

The traitor, the alien & the quiet loser.

What about Letwin?

Sorry; I should have included Letwin, I do like and admire the man, but hang on, D.D. is no traitor simply an idealist, Redwood is Redwood a unique talent and I.D.R. possibly the most honourable man in the house.

On your seperate point; of butterflies, D.C. is more the "Common Blue" but it is not a butterfly that we need right now.

Possibly a hornet might do a lot more good!

THX1138

David

Surely you meant to say Dave is a "Posh Blue"

IDS may be honourable but he is damaged goods. I once saw him eating lunch alone in cafe when he was Tory leader, know one else appeared to recognise him and somehow he looked rather a forlorn figure.

Who would you like to see as Tory leader? I

Verity

Number Plate writes: "At the same party I tried to have a conversation with Osborne and it was just awful. He was off hand and plain rude and just simply turned away to talk to one of his party (not Dave) and waived me away with his hand like you might dismiss a servant or a dog."

Hmmmmmmm. Perhaps illiterate, self-elevating wannabees such as your good self irritate the piss out of him.

How hysterical that someone of your intellectual calibre would label IDS "damaged goods". Do you have the faintest notion of how ridiculous your endless attempts to present yourself as someone rather interesting and well connected are?

TGF UKIP

THX, thanks for bearing out my view of Osborne as a Grade A, Class 1, 22 carat, untrustworthy shit. It would seem that while TV can disguise the innate shitiness of some politicians, in cases like Osborne it just serves to amplify it.

Meanwhile, I would have thought it completely unsurprising that two impeccably pc, Blue Labour, metropolitan liberals like Dave and yourself would have so much to talk about. Talk about mirror images!

Verity

TGI UKIP - True, but of course, Osborne might have preferred that someone be introduced to him rather than try to barge in on a conversation he was having with someone else.

George Laird

Dear THX1138

"of meeting Osborne I can safely say that "arrogant, lightweight, snidey, venal, sleazy and untrustworthy" is a very fair description of the man".

Well done Sir!

Refreshing to see a bit of telling it on the mountain.

Seeing what people are generally like over time in private is a good indicator of what their actions will be in public life.

Osbourne will be a bad Chancellor; his Russian adventures proved it.

Yours sincerely

Goerge Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Verity

Number Plate did not meet Osborne. Osborne refused to be met.

George Laird

Dear David Ossitt

Here is a list of my seven of the most useful Tory Shadow Cabinet members in no particular order.

Thomas Strathclyde
Phillip Hammond
Andrew Lansley
Oliver Letwin
Michael Gove
Dominic Grieve
Alan Duncan

I would sack Fox, Spelman, Pickles and Osbourne.

Hague is a good speaker but doesn’t impress me as a potential Foreign Secretary.

Francis Maude, David Willetts, Pauline Nevillie-Jones and Theresa Villiers are just treading water.

As to the rest; I can honestly say that they have made no real impact.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

TGF UKIP

Verity, normally I agree with almost all of what you have to say and I greatly admire the trenchant way you express your views.

On this occasion, though, I think you just may be being a little ungracious to your friend "Number Plate." From his posts I think I can say I would disagree completely with his freely confessed Blue Labour metropolitan views, but the manner in which he expresses those views is in that of a good humoured and courteous gentleman.

I can hardly think he will have approached Osborne in any other way and I am frankly amazed that you seem to be giving the egregious Osborne the benefit of the doubt rather than THX 1138. Unless, of course, you know Boy George rather better than you know your fellow Coffeee Houser "Number Plate".

Verity

I stand unrepentent.

David Ossitt

THX.

The Common Blue is a real butterfly; a Posh Blue would be a Tory Boy.

"Who would you like to see as Tory leader?"

Well I did write that we would do better of with a 'hornet' so that can only be David Davis.

David Ossitt

Dear George Laird.

Thank you for your post April 1st, 2009 5:28pm.

What an excellent list; it serves to remind us all, of the quality and wide breadth of knowledge and talent that is waiting in the wings as it were.

Obviously you have omitted D.D., J.R. and I.D.R. but then they probably scare the hell out of you.

I would sack three of your four; George must be kept, his faults and he has many, might well become virtues in the fulness of time.

George Laird

Dear David Ossitt

My list was only looking at current people holding a shadow cabinet job.

If I was making up a cabinet then I would include David Davis and Iain Duncan Smith.

As to John Redwood, I can't say I am a fan.

I would make David Davis, the Chancellor and offer Iain Duncan Smith, Work and Pensions but I would also consider letting him pitch him for Foreign Secretary.

Osbourne is a car crash waiting to happen, sooner or later he will bury himself with his own mouth.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University