Brown's illusory G20 deal
Fraser Nelson 7:47pm
Britain has as its Prime Minister a master of political illusion. He may not be much of an orator, but there is no one better at dressing up old money as new. If the G20 nations wanted to fake progress, to spin a $1.1 trillion figure while committing no new money at all, then Gordon Brown is their man. “This is the day that the world came together to fight the global recession, not with words but with a plan,” said our Dear Leader. Well, let’s have a closer look at this supposed plan…
1) “Making available an extra $1 trillion”. Ahh, those Brown verbal tricks. What does “make available” mean? Is it guarantees, promises, statement of intent? Real spending? Not a penny of cold hard cash has been pledged by anyone. The sum is concocted by taking the IMF’s pre-existing $500bn target for its bailout fund (a target it still hasn’t met), adding another $250bn to the target. And, then, we add a $250bn fund which the IMF would create by printing its own special money.
2) IMF Funds “treble to $750 billion”. Very fishy. We heard from the IMF on Valentine’s Day that it wanted double its rescue fund to $500 billion – then it said it wanted even more. So where has the extra $250bn come from? Who has stumped it up? No one, it appears - it's just a target. And then the IMF will print its own money, in its own pretend “currency” (called Special Drawing Rights or SDR), and then allow its members to swap this for real money. The idea was once rejected by US Congress, but Obama thinks he won’t need congressional approval now the limit is kept to $250bn. But to be clear: no one has stumped up any new cash. It’s a little quantitative easing for the world – aimed, I suspect, at Eastern Europe. China will be happy as it wants SDRs to replaced the US dollar as a reserve currency.
3) Old pledges dressed as new. Brown gave a breakdown of who had stumped up: Japan, he said, contributed $100bn to the IMF. Yes it did: in January. The EU has agreed to contribute $100bn, he added. We know: this was announced at the last EU summit. Brown said China has chipped in just $40bn, and this appears to be new. But given the size of Beijing’s $2 trillion piggy bank, that is a rather derisory amount (and won’t buy it a seat on the IMF board). The Brazilians had thought China was good for $100bn.
4) Double counting. The Dear Leader has good news. “We are going to act decisively to kickstart international trade” But how? “We will ensure availability of at least $250 billion over the next two years." Note that “over two years” means that this is $125bn, double counted. Why not make it four years, and whack up an extra $1 trillion? It’s just a joke. Nor is this real cash – it comes from trade insurance schemes to protect importers and exporters. It’s not money being spent by governments. Pure Brown-style fiscal conjuring.
5) Tax havens. “We have agreed there will be an end to tax havens that do not transfer secrecy on request.” This is a piggybacking on the long-running OECD campaign against tax havens – this is not a G20 initiative. Brown solemnly announced the OECD would publish a list of non-compliant nations, as if this were a breakthrough. It has been doing this for the last year – here is a list of the most recent such announcements.
6) “The Washington consensus is over”. A curious aside from Brown – and a dog whistle to the Soros/Naomi Klein school of economics. The so-called “Washington Consensus” doesn’t refer to any formal economic protocol. It is used by the likes of Soros to denote what he calls ‘free market fundamentalism’. The academic who coined the term talks about its abuse here.
7) Ban on new trade barriers. Yeah, right. They agreed this in November and, since then, 17 of the 20 countries have increased trade barriers.
8) Brown’s gold advice: “I’ve been proposing this to the IMF for ten years”. He was certainly proposing in 1999 that the IMF sold gold – then priced at $278 an ounce. Luckily, the IMF ignored Brown and gold is now $890 an ounce. Shame he didn’t take the IMF’s advice when it was warning his borrowing would end in tears.
9) “For the first time, we have come together to set principles for the global finance system.” As far as I can determine, all they have agreed is that banks and hedge funds should be regulated – but don’t say how. Ergo, it’s meaningless.
10) No fiscal stimulus. It’s mentioned twice in the 3,080 word document – there wasn’t one. Both Brown and Obama wanted the world to contribute new money. They failed. There was none of the big agreement that Brown led us to believe. There was a split, as evidenced by the Franco-German minority report yesterday. But still it’s a big summit, a deal was done (albeit a fairly nebulous one) and the threatre was fine.
On a presentational basis, this his has worked out well for Brown. I suspect the G20 will be written up well tomorrow, just as his Budgets are always written up well – “2p tax reduction!” – before we all realise we’ve been swindled. So look out for triumphant declarations of “$1.1 trillion to save the world” in tomorrow’s papers. Listening to Brown today, it was as if he were giving a Budget for the world. And I suspect the world is about to learn how illusory a Brown promise really is.
Previous
Rex Burr
April 2nd, 2009 8:03pm Report this commentJust be thankful that they haven’t committed a further Trillion to ‘Carbon Reduction'.
Paul Hughes
April 2nd, 2009 8:40pm Report this commentI cannot express, in words, how deeply I despise this charlatan. Blair was wat he was. Brown came to power promising to end spin and yet he pours it out like water. He is to all softly right thinkers what Maggie was to lefties. He stinks, he reeks or putrescent and empty verbiage. I truly believe that there ought to be a custodial sentence for people who do so much damage to the nation as he has. Perhaps this would cause politicians to think twice beforespending a penny of tax-payers' money.
This pompous and psychotic PM deserves to be lynched for his actions and it sickens me to the core that the craven BBC will laud his bogus "budget for the world"....
Pol-e-tics
April 2nd, 2009 8:56pm Report this commentSpot on.
Laura
April 2nd, 2009 9:03pm Report this commentA total waste of time and money for the political elite to hug itself. Quelle surprise.
I am sick to the back teeth with all the pompous graphics on the various TV coverage, Newsnight, Channel 4 News etc.
I'm sick of all the front pages telling me that Barack O'Brown is in town. I'm sick, sick, sick of it.
I'm sick of another set of Brown statistics. I'm sick of the BBC fawning over it all. And I'm even more sick with the journalistic fraternity's Orwell prize shortlist where they this year congratulate themselves on not telling the news and on not telling the truth.
Having not written a set of Valentine's opinion columns devoted to false-passport holder Binyam Mohamed, Jeff Randall seems to have been overlooked for this year's Orwell Prize for journalism but at least he is one of the few writers about who gets across just what the people of this country feel while this ridiculous circus has been going on this week.
In this column he sums up just how I and many others who work feel about Britain and about the G20:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeffrandall/5096043/Forget-the-G20-mob-coping-class-fury-is-about-to-reach-boiling-point.html
I'm fed up with it.
Susan Hill
April 2nd, 2009 9:10pm Report this commentLook, it`s the same with this as with all the other ridiculous trillions and squillions and money-talk over the last year - the public simply do not understand it and now they no longer believe anything any of them say - the ONLY thing they will take notice of is how any of it affects their day to day living - security of job, mortgage, cost of food and utilities and transport. All the rest is dream-weaving.. it`s just silly numbers.. 3 year old children say 'I love you a trillion billion zillion times.' That`s how much sense these figures Brown is bandying around mean to anyone.
Span Ows
April 2nd, 2009 9:15pm Report this commentPaul Hughes, I agree with every word you except for the custodial sentence bit; you were nearer the mark when you wrote "lynched" but for me nothing but his head on a spike at the gates of London will do...
Gizmo
April 2nd, 2009 9:21pm Report this commentYes, exactly like one of his cunning budgets that falls apart once the small print is examined.
His downfall will be all the more spectacular for his hubris.
tenpin
April 2nd, 2009 9:30pm Report this commentWhy don't these G20 protesters march on Downing Street? Brown is more guilty of financial wrong-doing than any banker. We are long overdue a good uprising. Maybe we should go back to being ruled by the monarchy - sure they are crazy but at least the tax payer will be paying for one extended family rather than the multiple extended familes derived from the Commons and Lords.
George Laird
April 2nd, 2009 9:30pm Report this commentDear Fraser
Thank you for doing the spade work and laying out what we all suspected and expected.
We are getting zip.
The G20 was as I previously said a photo op, abit of smoke and mirrors.
Brown can smile, laugh and dance about like he has won something but the reality is he has won nothing.
No one is buying, less are selling and everyone is looking over their shoulder for the massive crash we all know is coming.
We are not doomed but we are well and truly up the creek without a paddle.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
lawrence greek
April 2nd, 2009 9:32pm Report this commentPaul - seconded to the word. the man disgusts me. i loathe his lying, contemptuousness, his arrogance and rank stupidity. sage and independent commentators were warning of the impending credit-bubble-fuelled crash long before it happened and brown did nothing. the man is a criminal. a revolting, odious, petty fraudster. prison is too good for him.
Geoff Wyatt
April 2nd, 2009 9:33pm Report this commentA really impressive and speedy deconstruction. But why did the financial markets like it? Is it (a) because they too can see through the pompous deception and realise that there's not much new money involved? Or (b) because they are taken in by it all and believe there'll be a quick exit from recession?
Dave
April 2nd, 2009 9:33pm Report this commentHaving just read Nick Robinson's blog I can see why some of his BBC colleagues refer to him as "Toenails".
hadrian
April 2nd, 2009 9:53pm Report this commentAbsolutely right, Susan Hill!
And it is obvious that no matter what swelling words of bunkum wisdom politicians roll out unless it has genuine counterpart in the REAL world then no amount of window dressing will eventally conceal the fact the window's been stolen or smashed up- like he RBS bank in the City. That reality is all that the voters will care about. And I suspect it's not going to get better and austerity is here to stay. If so Broon and his fellow delusionists are going to be thrashed in any honsest election. G20- Gee, swizz.
Ganpat Ram
April 2nd, 2009 9:58pm Report this commentWell done, Brown !!
I am very happy with his performanvce, and after a few months all of you above will be smiling too.
Gordon is doing the only sensible thing in a threatening Depression: spend, spend, spend your way out.
If you don't, all your children will inherit is a shrunken economy.
So he is spending freely. Wise fellow.
And it is beginning to work.
House prices have started to stabilise and even move up. In the US manufacturing is recoverng. Banks are starting to lend.
All due to Gordon and good old Obama.
We are very lucky to have them.
I hope the economy improves in time for another smashing Labour victory.
The sweetest sound in the world is Tory fangs grinding.
The Bellman
April 2nd, 2009 10:01pm Report this commentSusan Hill: Quite. And as well as the playground vernacular you identify, there's the Nasty-Disney anthropomorphism of 'fighting back' against the recession, as though it were a sentient being, controlled by a malevolent creator, rather than a dynamic situation, created at least in part by his own arrogance, evasion and stupidity. He might think he sounds like Bill Pullman in *Independence Day*, but he is more like Peter Cook in *Whoops Apocalypse*, handing out Union flag umbrellas to protect the nation against nuclear bombs.
Short the UK
April 2nd, 2009 10:05pm Report this commentFraser, this is a cracking bit of analysis written in March by John Kay:
"Yet there is another, perhaps no less gloomy, way to draw parallels between the present crisis and the Great Depression. From this perspective, we are not at the start of the crisis but several years into it. The analogue of the 1929 Wall Street crash is not the 2007 credit crunch, but the bursting of the New Economy bubble in 2000. The follies of the 1990s resembled those of the 1920s, as Galbraith’s readers know. The underlying structural weaknesses of the world economy – US budget and trade deficits financed by Asian surpluses – re-emerged in 2000 after being disguised by the imaginary wealth of the New Economy.
The difference between the years after 1929 and the years after 2000 is that the policy mistakes were almost opposite. This time monetary and fiscal policies were strongly expansionary from the outset. These measures led to a wide boom in asset prices, extended unsustainable credit levels and induced further growth of the fundamentally flawed financial infrastructure on which the 1990s boom had been based.
In 1937-38, markets and business leaders came to doubt the durability of the business foundations on which partial recovery from the Great Depression had been built. In 2007-08, markets and business leaders came to doubt the durability of the financial foundations that had supported consumption and asset price growth after the New Economy fiasco.
Our capacity to learn from the Great Depression is limited because we do not know how economies would have evolved after 1938 if politics had not supervened. Life, said Kierkegaard, is understood backwards but must be lived forwards."
Ted Cunterblass
April 2nd, 2009 10:05pm Report this commentGeoff Wyatt: I can think of two possible explanations: it was very likely there would be a post-G20 bounce, and lots of people bought shares before they started gaining, reinforcing the effect, so expect a slump in short order; the end of the tax year, so share ISAs were being topped up.
oldrightie
April 2nd, 2009 10:13pm Report this commentWhat's it matter. The MSM are already salivating over the election announcement on the back of Brown's great G20 success.
The average joe public will swallow it all, Brown gets back into power and then the real car crash unfolds.
Alan Douglas
April 2nd, 2009 10:13pm Report this comment2 mins of crap news on BBC and/or Sky, so I switched to Fox and had the pleasure of Glenn Beck taking to the head of the Ayn Rand Fndn, and making total sense. What a great antidote !
Alan Douglas
Karen Barclay
April 2nd, 2009 10:21pm Report this commentFraser - I loved this article (I needed a healthy dollop of reality after all the media hype I have witnessed today).
Please could you explain one thing to me? Why are there so few dissenting voices? I have watched the BBC, Sky and Channel 4 and there is virtually unqualified praise for the summit. I would really appreciate your explanation for this. Also how do you think the Conservatives best respond given this collective media madness?
Beowulff
April 2nd, 2009 10:33pm Report this commentWhat a scumbag !
How can we get rid of him before he bankrupts us and our children for ever.
How I hate him and the ghastly Labour Party that spawned him and Blair.
Corruption + Incompetence
= Labour
Watervole
April 2nd, 2009 10:56pm Report this commentAlmost as much self-gratification on show today in G20 as on the stimulating videos watched by the Home Secretary's husband. Thankyou Fraser for the prompt disembowelling.
StpehenDC
April 2nd, 2009 11:03pm Report this commentI think you have misunderstood the IMF fund Fraser. I reckon it amounts to about $500BN of quantitative easing. Thats a pretty substantial stimulus to the global economy and I assume thats why the response of the markets and most commentators has been different to yours.
Wight Tory
April 2nd, 2009 11:05pm Report this commentPaul Hughes said
"I cannot express, in words, how deeply I despise this charlatan" You don't need any words Paul, an X will do, many will be sharing your disgust in his party, the policies they've burdened us with and indeed the man himself.
geoff
April 2nd, 2009 11:09pm Report this commentIn many ways Fraser I see you as significantly responsible for Brown's triumph today.
What on earth posessed you to play down expectations as much as you did?
By the time of the summit itself Brown was always going to exceed them.
Noone to blame but yourself.
Mark Williams
April 2nd, 2009 11:23pm Report this commentThe $250 billion of trade guarantees is not new money. It is merely an affirmation that the current export programmes, which have been in place for decades, will remain in place, not that anyone thought they were on the way out.
A bit like resolving not to mug little old ladies.
mckenzie
April 2nd, 2009 11:30pm Report this commentFraser
I am assigning you to the case. Don't let me down. I want frequent reports of this quality. Eyes peeled, nose to the ground. get to it!
Tankus
April 2nd, 2009 11:32pm Report this commentWonder what he does now? ...lots more trips abroad , as the man "getting on with the job , the job in hand" , of personally making sure that the global fiscal stimulus remains stimulated ? Globally ..!
Expenses here are going to hit big time if some paper finally coughs up some money , and gets a copy of the unedited non laundered original receipt claims .....this is a story with legs.
Adam
April 2nd, 2009 11:37pm Report this commentThankyou Fraser, that was so good it almost brought me to tears. Brown's lies & absurdity laid out for all to see.
Brown had the temerity to call Cameron a shallow salesman, egads!
Has anyone noticed the following?
BBC say: 'Let's get some political reaction.'
They go to another BBC person, who comments, doesn't report what a politician has said; doesn't say what they thought about what a politician said; they just give their left-wing view of the world and their wonderful, wonderful Brown.
Fraser Nelson
April 2nd, 2009 11:45pm Report this commentStpehenDC, can you say more? As I understand it they take the existing $500bn target (as yet unmet) and raise that to $750bn. The extra $250bn isn't being funded by anyone -
and there's the suggestion that the IMF would borrow it. That's not QE. I'm with you on the final $250bn SDR being QE - but I don't think they have indicated they'd print money to raise the basket case fund from $500bn to $750bn. I'm only going on the press conferences and issued statements, though, so I'm willing to stand corrected here...
RobertD
April 3rd, 2009 12:42am Report this commentGanpat Ram,
The turn around in house prices, such as it is, is the result of throwing massive amounts of new funding at the banks and demanding that they lend it at low interest rates whether they have a decent security or not. It's reinflating the balloon, not a sign that prices are back in line with incomes. its the first sign of the massive inflation to come. Not a good sign... but the impending second stage of the storm.
Joan
April 3rd, 2009 1:39am Report this commentThanks for putting me straight- the media here in Australia are celebrating the great outcome at G20
TomTom
April 3rd, 2009 2:40am Report this commentWhy are there so few dissenting voices? I have watched the BBC, Sky and Channel 4 and there is virtually unqualified praise for the summit
Because of their duty to boost confidence in the economy so people spend money they don't have.
Jim
April 3rd, 2009 3:57am Report this commentSickening stuff.
Is anybody at the Spectator planning to write a spoof of when Brown goes to the IMF for a bailout?
Something along the lines of: The IMF has decided to invest in Britain's future, it's the right long term decision to build a stronger, more diverse country....blah, blah.
David
April 3rd, 2009 6:53am Report this commentSuperb, Fraser. I really wish the BBC would use you as a dissenting voice; the analysis on Today and Breakfast was nowhere near as detailed.
Scot Richards
April 3rd, 2009 7:18am Report this commentThere once was a PM named Brown
Invited the G20 to town
Now the crisis is over
The market's in clover
The circus is saved by the Clown.
john miller
April 3rd, 2009 7:30am Report this commentWell, well, well. Did I hear him say that the measures taken would ensure a crisis like this never happens again? Sounds like "no more boom and bust" revisited to me.
Still, as Blair proved - keep repeating the same lies over and over. Eventually, people become brain dead and believe you But then Blair and Brown have a head start. They know they are lying but believe they are telling the truth.
Alan Douglas
April 3rd, 2009 8:00am Report this commentBrown budgets are always full of Brown substance.
Brown global bailouts ditto.
Alan Douglas
Fraser Nelson
April 3rd, 2009 8:23am Report this commentDavid, if you were up at 6.20am (ie, if you were a farmer or a new father) you'd have heard me on BBC Breakfast with Kevin McGuire making these points. I was on R4's World Tonight at 10.30pm last night and I'm going on BBC2's Daily Politics today too with Anita Anand. So I can't complain about the BBC! On a more practical note, viewers tend to switch off when you get into statistical breakdowns. The internet is the only real medium where you can tear apart figures in the way we've done without alienating the average reader (who tends not to take such claims seriously.)
Observer 99
April 3rd, 2009 8:39am Report this commentGood old Gordon Brown - about to be out of a job. By lucky coincidence, the new global financial regulatory body will soon be looking for a new CEO.
David Ossitt
April 3rd, 2009 9:03am Report this commentGanpat Ram;
Or are you realy the dreaded
Anga Tramp?
Who rummer has it always steps in to talk drivel, when labour is doomed to fail!
Raised Eyebrows
April 3rd, 2009 9:30am Report this commentFraser, by referring to SDRs as pretend “currency” you show your lack of understanding of the IMF.
Secondly, while you're right that the term 'Washington Consensus' has been abused by the G20, referring to the "Soros/Naomi Klein school of economics" is hilariously misguided. Naomi Klein doesn't have any understanding of economics, but what she does understand is about a million miles away from George Soros.......
Fine, a lot of the communique might not add up to lots, but if you show your ignorance on the IMF then your whole piece comes across as churlish.
Phil H
April 3rd, 2009 10:06am Report this commentI think the whole thing is far more laughable. Take the UK. It has $1.5trillion in government debt alone and an estimated $9trillion in total debt. So the IMF would need a hell of a lot more money just to bail out the UK, let alone the whole of Eastern Europe, Iceland, Ireland and a plethora of other failed socialist states that promised jam today on the basis of debt tomorrow. Naturally it leaves you wondering just where the IMF is going to get this $1trillion from when its principle benefactor also has a government debt of $10trillion and probably in excess of $50trillion in total debt.
drakes drum
April 3rd, 2009 10:15am Report this commentMr Nelson, well written. Excellent.
Paul Hughes, Susan Hill (as ever) and Lawrence Greek I support every word.
I, too, am sick of the second coming, or is it the anti christ? (his election did ring of the words in revelation and the anti christ)!
But Brown is the greatest danger this Country has ever faced since Hitler. Save that he is attempting to change us from within!
The Act now given royal assent allowing EU armed services "IN THE CONTEXT OF AN EU CRISISMANAGEMENT
OPERATION"
Reference detailes:-
Presented to Parliament
by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs
by Command of Her Majesty
March 2009
Cm 7572 £5.50
AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE MEMBER STATES OF THE EUROPEAN UNION CONCERNING THE STATUS OF MILITARY AND CIVILIAN STAFF SECONDED TO THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, OF THE HEADQUARTERS AND FORCES WHICH MAY BE MADE
AVAILABLE TO THE EUROPEAN UNION IN THE CONTEXT OF THE
PREPARATION AND EXECUTION OF THE TASKS REFERRED TO IN ARTICLE 17(2) OF THE TREATY ON EUROPEAN UNION,1 INCLUDING
EXERCISES, AND OF THE MILITARY AND CIVILIAN STAFF OF THE MEMBER STATES PUT AT THE DISPOSAL OF THE EUROPEAN
UNION TO ACT IN THIS CONTEXT (EU SOFA)
Chuck Unsworth
April 3rd, 2009 10:17am Report this commentIs Ganpat Ram some sort of 'comedian'?
Inflation of house prices is just the start. With the BoE printing money furiously we'll be seeing massive inflation of property prices shortly. Already some flats which I own in London have increased in nominal value (and as valued by local estate agents) by over 15% in four weeks. I fully expect to see 30% by the end of the year.
Chuck Unsworth
April 3rd, 2009 10:22am Report this commentAnd, Fraser - nice piece, good bare bones stuff!
Dave
April 3rd, 2009 10:31am Report this commentDid anyone see Mandelson on news night !! Hes preparing us for the IMF bailout saying the IMF shouldnt be viewed in a bad way but as an aid to short term finacial dificulties hmmmm and funny how he wouldnt answer any question on the UK's massive public debt or how we are going to pay it back.
Nick
April 3rd, 2009 10:55am Report this commentIt's all untrue of Gordon Brown to say that Hedge Funds aren't regulated. UK-based Hedge Funds and their employees are all regulated currently by the FSA.
Also bear in mind that not a single Hedge Fund has had to be bailed out with taxpayers' money.
The Hedge Fund issue is a complete distraction from the main issues with the current economic crisis.
connor
April 3rd, 2009 11:40am Report this commentThere is also the issue of the $250bn export credit guarantees to be made avilable over two years. My understanding is that this is really nothing more than a weekly, two year, $3bn revolving credit guarantee facility (52 x 2.4 x 2 = 250).
George Hardy
April 3rd, 2009 12:21pm Report this commentThank you once again, Telegraph,for Jeff Randall's hilarious article on the G20 mob.
I became aware of Jeff's dry humour when he had his lighthearted and sycophantic interview on BBC Radio 5 with Rupert Murdoch. When Rupert said that the UK taxed business too highly, Jeff avoided asking him about his own business tax schemes. Everyone in the car I was travelling in burst into hoots of laughter!
Today, Jeff's tongue was once again firmly in his cheek when he avoided mentioning tax havens once in his piece.
Please arrange for him to do an article on how these refuges from the evils of taxation help save us taxpayers from the recession.
Rainer Unsinn
April 3rd, 2009 12:55pm Report this comment"Ganpat Ram
House prices have started to stabilise and even move up."
Wow, so the reported 1.9% fall during March is just an illusion?
Luc
April 3rd, 2009 1:08pm Report this commentThe key to this whole crisis lies in the way money is created (and by whom). George Soros, last night on Newsnight just managed to brush on this topic in the last 15 seconds of his interview.
Our current system of money creation has a mathematical guarantee to create these bust scenarios. The fractional reserve system requires that we enslave ourselves to debt in order to create money. No debt = no money.
Plus the interest on that debt is never actually created (except by passing it on via yet another debt commitment). And the scales of the system increases geometrically until it 'bursts'. Do a search in YouTube and Google videos for "Zeitgeist: Addendum", 'corrupt banking system", 'money as debt', 'debt free money'. Educate yourselves then listen more intently, observe more deeply what is really happening.
JK
April 3rd, 2009 1:40pm Report this commentI am assuming Ganpat is being facetious. I do like quiet and pointed humour.
The Bellman
April 3rd, 2009 1:46pm Report this comment@Fraser: Tut-tut: IMF 'basket-case fund'? Lord Mandelson has de-stigmatised the IMF loans - a bit like his political forefathers de-stigmatised 'lone parenthood', and thus restored a sense of personal responsibility to modern Britain.
So your judgemental tone is unhelpful.
Muddyman
April 3rd, 2009 3:34pm Report this commentIts horrifying to hear the cry of the neo-fascists -'the New World Order' as a sign of a revived world. Its getting closer to a revolution by the day!.
David Ossitt
April 3rd, 2009 7:53pm Report this commentJK.
"I am assuming Ganpat is being facetious".
Oh no he is not, he is a true
believer.
Note his last sentence below.
The sweetest sound in the world is Tory fangs grinding.
Bob
April 3rd, 2009 8:29pm Report this commentSo QE on a global scale is good is it? Spare me!
I like Peter Schiff's analysis on things (not the G20, just overall) and that business fundamentals must be sound for there to be any hope of true growth - well hello - where is the true growth here? Where are the sound business fundamentals?
The G20 have done nothing more than get an extension of time and the hope is that it all comes good so they can look like they secured the turn-around.
The truth is deflation comes from the system being overdebted - I don't see that condition being resolved at all.
In recessions you stimulate, in depressions you shed debt - the G20 are dam well stimulating in a depression - the exact opposite of what you should do - you only inflate the bubble further by stimulating in a depression.
The markets are looking for ANY excuse to rally - too much gloom creates a market condition of rally at anything - even if it's unfounded good news or smoke and mirror news like what the G20 has pumped out.
In time, the wheels will fall off the G20 smoke and mirror wagon and when people realise their personal debt levels are killing them in interest payments when inflation hits, then back to contraction the go.
This is just the financial aspect - what about peak oil (and if not peak exactly - the sharp rise in energy extraction costs), population growth (getting fairly close to the carrying capacity of the earth), baby boomer retirement funding and their asset dumping which will hit soon and many other factors coming to a head in a short span of time.
Let the peasants have their dance of joy in the street for a bit because the tax man cometh with a vengeance to claim on anything that he can to pay for all this mess.
Minnie Ovens
April 3rd, 2009 8:55pm Report this commentPlease wake me up when we start talking real money.
David Cammish
April 4th, 2009 11:42am Report this commentRe Dave; April 3rd, 2009 10:31am
"Did anyone see Mandelson on News night?"
Yes, I did and it was very disquieting. A refusal to answer questions by talking over them, changing the subject and patronising Gavin Esler ("You just don't understand..."), Mandelson is a master politician and an odious person.
G20 - Reactivate and print a global paper currency (IMF SDRs) to help all the other printed currencies, ALL of which are only limited by the speed of printing presses (or the press of a computer key), NONE of which are backed by true money (medium of exchange, unit of account, but, most importantly, a store of wealth) almost guarantees at some point a global financial catastrophe.
Also, the amount being stated (not pledged or now available) does not even begin to cover the debts already out there.
Brown's hubris ("...the end of boom and bust..." and others) and mendacity must surely qualify him for some form of mental diagnosis. Unless we really are in post "1984" and Brown, Mandelson et al actually ARE double thinking? Events will show the folly of that.
diane kane
April 5th, 2009 12:32am Report this commentit is shocking how this is allowed to happen.the world is going to the dogs.
Christopher Wills
April 5th, 2009 3:26pm Report this commentPoor Gordon Brown. Does he go to the electorate now with his pathetic G20 bounce of a couple of %? If he waits until after the European elections his standing could be so low in the polls that his chance will be blown this year (you can ignore the budget in political terms because nobody will believe any optimism in it). Or does he wait until next year, by which time his own party will probably have lynched him as they see the gravy train waiting on the platform, and most of them without tickets for its next journey? The poor man deserves nothing less than the stress he is going to suffer over the next year as he dithers over the decision. Watching the NuLabour party pull itself apart is going to be almost as much fun as watching sport.
Jeff
April 5th, 2009 9:32pm Report this commentThis is really getting interesting between the government and the banks. I'm still not certain if all of this will work. The other day, I saw the history of unemployments and recessions on
http://www.recessioninfocenter.com
and it just looks like at the end of the day there is little the governmetn can do.
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