How well worked out are Cameron's council tax proposals?

David

"What council would get a “yes” vote to the referendum question do you want to pay more tax?" A council that makes it clear what they wish to spend the monmey on , and make it clear that the current levy isn't enough despite efficient use? Sounds like a way to force councils to be more accountable to me- if they want money, they have to convince their voters they deserve it.

Simon

I always defend Dave on this site but I do think he is wrong here and I cant understand the reasoning behind it. There is a general concern about the level of the Council tax and I suppose its an easier solution than yet another reform of local Govt finance. Logically he should welcome a referedum on national taxation if the tax burden reaches a certain level. Cant see that happening

Adam

This is ill thought out and pretty much utter nonsense. The referendum would always be lost and the process would simply cost a great deal when the outcome was always known. The council would threaten cuts in services and blame the govt when it lost the referendum. The govt would blame the council and we'd be where we are now. Value for money and more devolved power where it matters is what cameron should be talking about not silly gimmicks.

Tiberius

I had hoped that the grammar school issue (although it was the manner of the presentation rather than the substance at fault) had marked the end of the questionable statements. I have to say that this and the rape conviction rate announcement are not what I consider policy development but mood music, the time of which, after this year's conference season, has passed. The Tories should be concentrating on the government's many inadeqacies, and the vital policy issues only. These sort of distractions risk letting Brown of the hook.

Max Kaye

I'm in a quandary: I like the idea - and principle - of complete devolution to local government, however after having had contact with my own local tiers of council politicians and executive officers I must say that I've never met a more 3rd rate of incompetent no-hopers - the sort that wouldn't last 5 minutes in any commercial environment. I imagine that this picture is replicated nationwide.

Fraser Nelson

Max, my thoughts exactly. And worse, the incompetent councils love keeping power to themselves - building their empires at the expense of council taxpayers. So thats why im nervous about the Tories getting worked up about localism, and equating this with giving more power to the idiots in the town hall. Their mission should not be passing power from one branch of government to another but passing it directly to the people.

MTK

Max/Fraser - On a more optimistic reading, it could be a great thing for the conservatives. When people start to connect their council tax with the level and quality of local facilities they will surely realise that there is an alternative to the Rotten Labour Municipalities and to the Socialist Republics of London. Further, as the economy starts to weaken, ensuring that the people have at least one mechanism through which they can say "no, you are not going to have any more pocket money until you spend what you already have a bit better". I agree with the notion of passing power direct to the people but it will be very hard to do as there are millions of underworked desk jockeys who will squeal blue murder if a Tory Westminster government threatens their perks. Much, much cleverer to give voters the ability to strangle their councils until they makes serious efforts at value for money.

Dave Foulkes

The flaw in ‘big government’ is that to make it work efficiently and effectively you need very big people to run it, when what we have are laughably little people. Attempts to bring bigger people into government have lead almost without exception only to bigger salaries for the same little people. The answer must be to break government into small enough pieces for little people to administer it; and moreover, small and local enough pieces for the public to exercise control over the little people and their administrative duties. Manageable pieces and localism, alternatively known as doing the right thing and doing the right thing right.

David

Of course, it's really up to the people if they wish to vote in idiots. And with a turnout of 30% in local elections, idiots may be more likely than not to get in. That's democracy for you, and the fact you may get idiots is not an excuse for damaging it. But if people can get more engaged, it may mean they take more notice of who they vote into the town hall. So it may take a while at first, but you have to start somewhere.

Steve

I have long been baffled as to why Central government should give two hoots how local gov raises its cash, if a council believes it can make ends meet via a tax on shoelaces and catfood, why not let it try?. It also puzzles me why so much money that is spent locally gets raised centrally, and then paid out back into local services. If you wanted to be radical on this hows about local expenditure gets financed locally (with the concomitant reduction in central income taxes etc) Admittedly there may be some drawbacks to this i.e. some of our madder councils go bust, but I suspect that fiscal common sense would soon be the norm. But there are also some major pluses - 1, It will allow for financial experimentation at local level. 2, You could see the scenario whereby councils cut tax rates to encourage inward investment, and look what that did for the Irish economy. 3, Finally it will make people re-engage with local politics again, because local politics will actually matter again.

J H Holloway

Sounds like Poll Tax pt2....that system, where each person got a personal bill, was originally designed to make people pay more attention to looney left, wild-spending councils.

Getting a personal bill for the council's profligacy should then have led to a popular uprising by voters.

Didn't work that way, though....

C Powell

If the Tories are serious about giving power back to the people, they should abolish council tax etc and let people pay charges for those services they use. Councils can either provide them themselves or get providers to do so and, where practicable, we should have a choice. Nor should we accept the current lazy thinking that councils need to do all the stuff that they are doing. There's no earthly reason why waste collection or schools needs to be run by elected councillors. They want to do it because it boosts their empires and self-importance & since they mostly don't have real jobs they start having endless committees and newsletters and pompous views on everything from the numbers of dogs you can walk and where to whether some tiny borough can be nuclear free or reverse climate change etc., but that's no reason for colluding in this self-deluding rubbish. So: a charge for collecting rubbish & if I don't like the council's waste collection service I can go to the next borough's or another private provider; if you want a parking permit or skip licence you pay for it. Only if you use local authority schools do you pay for them. That would enable people to decide what services they really value by showing the ones they're really prepared to pay for.

TGF UKIP

Tiberius, believe it or believe it not I completely agree with you and you might also have added Conservative Co-Ops to your list of recent idiocies. Dave, I'm afraid, is just reverting to his gimmick hungry, less than savvy self. I'm also in complete agreement with Max Kaye and Fraser and would simply make the point that the same reservations hold good over Dave's notion of handing control of schools and hospitals over to the "professionals." You only have to imagine the delight of the NUT if teachers were really put in charge of schools.

perdix

TG UKIP(not)- you don't want to understand, do you. Give control of schools to head teachers, money follows pupils,pupils don't come,teachers no jobs.

Tiberius

I do agree with perdix over schools and hospitals, TGF. Ideally, you have a headteacher or consultant playing MD with a bursar playing FD and you're off, free of state bureaucracy and obsessive target setting by the likes (or even not so likes) of white-tie-and-tails Gordon.