Why, in the end, we will defeat Islamist extremism

Bob.India

The Taliban may eventually lose popular support amongst a largely powerless civilian population but then how will this population fight back against an insurgency sired by and allied to the sinister and omnipresent military intelligence agency, ISI, and appeased by a useless and corrupt oligarchical "government", headed by Zardari, Mr 10%, the former Mr Benezir Bhuto.

Maximilian

Or, alternatively, it's the reason why, in the end, Islamic extremism will defeat us. We, the refugees, will run out of safe havens to escape to:

http://tinyurl.com/malm32

Vulture

Too complacent, I'm afraid James. If the Taleban - in Afghanistan and now in Pakistan - are as unpopular as you suggest, perhaps you could explain why they seem able to tap into a seemingly limitless supply of young men eager to kill (our young men among many others) and die for their demented cause? The history of revolutions from 1789 onwards shows that it is not the great mass of 'quiet life' citizens who make the weather, but the tiny minority of extreme but dedicated fanatics. They're over there now - they'll be here soon. Just you watch.

Ed Bell

Why ? What exactly do you think the expression "Islam spread by the sword" actually entailed for the people caught in its maw ? We are about to get a history lesson in how the original islamic expansion occurred.

patricia

A coffee post from cloud cuckoo land.

We created the Taliban from the MJHD to stop Afghanistan from becoming Russia's poodle.

Now they're hell bent on stopping Afghanistan from becoming the West's poodle.

So go cock your leg on some historial reality, before spraying the internet with your dogma.

N

I disagree. Just because you don't have "popular support" doesn't mean you are eventually going to wither and die. Ask anyone in Europe or America of their views on Islamic Extremism and they will say it's bad. If that is the thoughts of people, then how come Britain is moving closer to allowing Sharia law? Why does the US allow schools that preach "death to America" to remain open on their soil? As long as we have people on our own soil who "support" the Taliban, whether willingly or not, they won't be destroyed. Also, "popular support" means nothing when you have money and guns. The Taliban used brutal force to keep Afghanistan in check, and the "memories" you mention did nothing to change the country. Saddaam Hussein, too used brutual power to keep his country in check. Hussein was in power for several decades and Iraqis knew what he was doing, yet he and his regime didn't die out. The Taliban and Al Qaeda don't neccesarily need popular support to continue, they have outside income so they don't need the People to support them. As long as Israel and the US exist, Taliban and Al Qaeda propoganda will garner members willing to die. In a true guerrilla war popular support is important, but the Taliban and Al Qaeda have taken guerrilla warfare, a normally defensive style of war, and turned it offensive (i.e. terrorist attacks), so guerrila warfare rules of old, don't qualify. As long as the Taliban and Al Qaeda are able to spread their propoganda, and gather their outside incomes, and rule through fear they will exist, they rule as the Koran says: "convert or die."

Publius

On the contrary, what the Islamic radicals have learned is that terror always wins, and the West always caves in.

N

Ed Bell, your comment about the original Islamic expansion being spread by the sword is very politically incorrect. I would recommend reading any modern histroy textbook, there is no mention of the Islamic expansion. The countries of the middle east were peaceful and harmonious until the big bad Crusaders attacked for no reason.

I'm a historian and it pisses me off that the Crusades have becomes some politicized and now in the West no one teaches the truth about the Crusades: they were a response to Islamic expansion!!! Look up the Battle of Covadonga, the "peaceful muslims" were moving up through Spain and into France!

I agree with you, we are going to get a re-history lesson.

David T

We created the Taliban from the MJHD to stop Afghanistan from becoming Russia's poodle

No we didn't

We arguably 'created' the Northern Alliance. The Taliban came some time after the period you're talking about

Bob.India

Vulture. Agreed but you write "they're over there now - they'll be here soon". In fact, I think that they are here already, aided, abetted and protected by successive NuLabour legislation, enacted by our own useless and corrupt government.

Herbert Thornton

Wishful thinking, Mr. Forsyth.

The formerly Christian countries of the world have, for the most part, completely lost their will to resist Islamic extremism. Consequently they are already on the way to being defeated - and will be defeated unless they regain the will to resist - and there is little sign of their doing so.

The world's last hope for the preservation of civilisation may yet turn out to be China.

Olaf Rye

We supported elements of the Mujahadeen to cause the USSR grief, but the situation is more complex than the posting by Patricia suggests. Elements were also allied to Iran and this was the group that espoused a more radical Islamic vision. Some of these groups benefited from military support from the western forces operating in that theatre as advisors and received weapons, but as a rule, they were loyal and sympathetic to Iran.

The dissolution of the Afghani government with the withdrawal of the USSR led to a state of chaos in which the Taleban, a splinter of the extremist Islamic groups that received support from Iran, gained control of portions of the country. In other parts of the country, those groups that we had supported were in control. It was scarcely the western powers that created the Taleban, but rather the Iranians exploiting a radical element.

Ian C

We will not defeat the Islamist extremists unless and until we rein in the Saudi Arabian money and wahhabi imams that are exported to pay for and spiritually 'nourish' the young in these countries.

These both account for the number of young men willing to participate as there is such a limited alternative future for them in careers they aspire to in their western connected - via TV, internet and relatives - but backward countries.

Beer Moth

N - well said. Pre-emptive they weren't.

You try forwarding a lesson plan in any state school, that tells the real truth about the Crusades and why they came to being - just see how far you get.

To acquaint our young people with such information would risk them realising the horrors which are on the way. Wouldn't want that would we?

Olaf

"...but the situation is more complex than the posting by Patricia suggests..."

Twas ever thus my friend.

http://pol-e-tics.blogspot.com

So, as Nigel Lawson proposes, should Britain withdraw its forces from Afganistan?

Verity

Oi, Pete! Where's my post?

PS - Remember that last time, Muslim aggression in Europe was only halted at the Gates of Vienna. The Labour government has saved them the trouble this time round and opened the floodgates to Britain for no reason other than to punish the British, who they loathe. Tony Blair hates the British. (I don't think Gordon Brown does, but he has never really been signed up to the programme. He may even not be a member of Common Purpose.) Jack Straw. The Harridan/sisters tendency, the, BBC, the unions ...

Pete Hoskin

Verity: I've just looking through the system, and the comment that's showing is the only one we've got from you on this post. Apologies.

Bill Fitzpatrick

It's true that they recruit young men to their extreme lifestyle but we attract young men to the west by the million each year. They recruit western asians east by the dozen or by the hundreds at best, so they we will win in the end.

mcHaggis

Doing WHAT to donkeys???

cf M. Ghandi esq; "you can judge a nation by how it treats its animals". I rest my case, he must be birlin' in his grave (if he has one)

Verity

Pete - Thanks for checking. I sent it but have been having computer glitches and am going to have to have the computer wrenched from my cold, grasping hands to go in for a check-up.

Thank you, though. The fault clearly lies at this end.

Tigris

James is right. Iraq is another example where the nihilist brand of Islamic extremism failed, because it failed to win popular consent. Those affiliated to Al Qaeda inflicted an arbitrary and repressive style of justice. In the end, the tribal leaders in Ramadi turned on them. The concept of fighting jihad appears romantic to many in the Arab world; the reality is often a mundane evil. Hence Yemeni teenagers being masking taped to the steering wheels of taxis and driving into Shi'a market places; or mentally retarded women having suicide vests placed upon them. The takfiri movement defines itself by what it opposes - it offers no hope. It cannot win.

Verity

Bill Fitzpatrick writes: "... It's true that they recruit young men to their extreme lifestyle but we attract young men to the west by the million each year." With the same intent: Conquest.

Steve Horgan

An anonymous commentator said that, 'On the contrary, what the Islamic radicals have learned is that terror always wins, and the West always caves in.'

Really? The fact is that Terrorist groups almost always lose. Where they achieve anything like their goals it is always on the back of popular support and where they have made the transition from violence to political action. Islamic extremists rapidly alienate populations that fall under their control, that is why they lost control of Afghanistan so rapidly, and that is why the Sunnis in Iraq turned against them. In Pakistan the reason why the government can now launch a full-scale war against them is that the evidence of their brutality against ordinary Pakistani civilians has become commonplace. Modern media can work against extremists too. The article is spot on, an Islamist movement that was actually interested in improving people's lives over imposing a medieval ideology on them would be far, far more dangerous.

Anti Relon

Britain is now bending backwards to please extremists from many countries, who care nothing for the country. They only want to impose their will. Hopefully the next government, possibly Tories, will set the worngs done by Labour and free the British people. The British are a very tolerant people and have been taken for granted. Look at KFC.

eyesofdawn

Herbert
Correct, Many people do miss that but China may very well be our last hope........as they will stand no nonsense on this religious bullcrap. They will do 10 times worst than any muslim "caliph" is ever able to do...........and they will win, at any cost