Telegraph reportedly planning to do the shadow Cabinet on Monday

Lionel Bromley

Its a police matter now so they won't be able to publish any more.

Hysteria

isn't it amazing that we are talking "COULD well be talking career ending stuff" ....

oh for the likes of Carrington - people with some sense of honour and public service who

a - wouldn't do this stuff in the first place and

b - if in the wrong - resign

peter

Oh yes, sure they will.

A fridge-magnet here, a post it note there...

Anything proportionate will be buried and ignored.

The Telegraph, and its conservative cronies, think winning elections comes from smearing their antagonists.

Instead of winning the debate.

Chuck Unsworth

'Career ending'? Very questionable. They'll hang together, rather than separately.

What will be interesting is to see whether Cameron takes action. After all, Brown has not and clearly has no intentions of so doing. If ever there was an opportunity for Cameron to draw clear lines of distinction this is it. He can appear decisive and statesmanlike - or he can appear to be no better than Brown.

Sir Graphus

Who's hoping it's Balls' "did you stay up for Portillo" moment?

Tigris

I wonder if one of your readers could enlighten me? I hear on Radio 4, that the House of Commons authorities have asked the police to investigate the leak to the Telegraph. I am unclear what offence in law might have been committed. Presumably expense claims are not official secrets.

On the other hand, the Home Secretary nominated her constituency home as her main residence to her local authority and paid council tax accordingly. To the Fees Office, she nominated her sister's bedroom as her main residence. Is it conceivable that she has defrauded the House of Commons. Should the police be investigating her?

Simon Denis

What IS the Telegraph up to? It should be supporting the Tories and dishing the dirt exclusively on Labour. Would it not have done so in the old days? What sort of Tory newspaper is it that plans to rumble and undermine a Conservative shadow cabinet on the eve of victory against the left? And don't give me that bilge about journalistic ethics. Journalists have no ethics to speak of. Otherwise, they'd be part of a more honourable and productive trade. Unless all the forces of the right pull together - as the left did under Blair - we risk another perhaps fatal helping of Batty Hatty and Moody Broon. No, thankyou.

Bring back Conrad Black and Charles Moore!

Manfredo

Many people will assume that this will generate a "plague on both your houses" response from the public, but I don't think that will be the case. It will stick to Labour to a much greater degree than the Tories.

I recall the "House bank" scandal in the U.S. (in which it was revealed that U.S. Congressfolk were allowed to keep accounts at the House of Representatives Bank seriously overdrawn without consequence). The story broke in early 1992, but really took off in 1993. The mainstream press assumed that this would cause a general "anti-incumbent" backlash, but in fact it was a major contributing factor in the GOP takeover of the House in 1994. The Democrats were in power and they were punished, even though it was nominally a bipartisan scandal.

Think also of the atmosphere in the UK in 1995-96 ("Tory Sleaze") or in the US in the last few years (Republican "culture of corruption"). No matter how much the Conservatives or Republicans yelled "they do it too!" about the opposition no one cared because the public was predisposed to think badly of the party in power. Labour is at that point now.

TrevorsDen

It strikes me that Gordon Browns fiddle on his second home ought to end his career.
But there is something fishy about house cleaners bill - neatly split in half. His taxpayer funded half (for a small flat) helping cover for his brother's larger house (?).

This possibility is so toxic that one wonders if anyone has the nerve to go close and touch it.

It seems to me the Tories have an option to be more draconian and if people have the whip taken away and are deselected now they have the option to bring in some proper talent.

Mark, Edinburgh

Does anyone know how far back these records go?

Tony Blair?

G ADLAM

Good! Can't wait to see Mr & Mrs Balls' details. But since Gordon's a dead man walking, can David Milliband, aspirant heir, explain to me in simple language why my tax should pay for his pram?

Juliana

I can think of one Conservative MP who will be afraid, very afraid.

Kevyn Bodman

The really big question is not how the Telegraph gets maximum mileage out of the story,whether that's on Sunday or another day.
That's a minor tactical decision and is theirs alone.

The really big question is which 'honourable' members have been ripping off the taxpayer, and to what extent.

I look forward to the 'really bad stuff' coming out, whoever it is about.
Let us know the truth.

Treat politicians with the respect they desrve.

sinosimon

why is the whole of the MSM meekly accepting the lie that 'its all within the rules'?
The claims for cleaners, cat food, pot plants, patio heaters, barbecues......NONE of them are within the rules because they are not related to the MP's function.....unless I've missed St Jacqui griddling burgers at the despatch box during home office questions.....?
THese fraudsters sign a declaration on every claim that the expenses were incurred wholly as a necessary part of performing their duties as an MP.
So why, why is nobody among the people who are supposed to be our representatives in the MSM asking the right questions......how did those pots plants help? Did the cat do constituency work? How did the fact that your microwave was sparkling aid you in your fight for social justice Prime Minister?

If Gordon Brown doesn't really want to put the domestos down his own toilet, or wipe the sink clean at the end of the day he has my wholehearted sympathy. Neither do I. But whether these mundane tasks are performed or not has NO bearing on his doing his job as an MP or PM. He pays someone else to do it, fine. But it is fraud to claim that back from the taxpayer as constituting part of his official duties, pure and simple. Within the rules...no.

Your acquiescence shows you to either be as out of touch or as morally bankrupt as the politicos.

oldtimer

You say: "we could well be talking career ending stuff."

I say "Good! About time."

What is astonishing is the way Ministers and MPs claim that what they have done is "within the rules".

Looking at extracts of the Green Book reported on Sky News, it is obvious that many of these claims did not answer, satisfactorily, the obvious question of "Will it pass the test of public scrutiny" (my paraphrase). It seems to me that those offials who have passed off these claims have as much to answer for as the MPs themselves - though no doubt they were put under pressure to OK them.

The final straw is the request by the HoC Speaker for the police to investigate the leak. I see Mr Brogan has justified publication as "in the public interest". He is quite right. Maybe, one day, some enterprising film producer will
produce a blockbuster film called "Scumbag Millionaires" to reveal all that has been going on at our expense.

mac

Peter,

You sound very like the affronted Lord Mandelson, complaining in a radio interview this morning - and without any apparent hint of irony - that a germ of an issue has been blown out of proportion into a smear. What risible moan.

Rather like Brown, Lord M's reputation as a political genius, so long and carefully burnished by the party propagandists and toady
journos, is fast disintegrating.

Are you in fact he, "Peter?"

John Levett

Sinosimon - I agree that the media need to get their teeth into the 'within the rules' mantra: Gordon Brown's private London dwelling can in no way be construed as being necessary to his functioning as an MP.

And how typical of this government that the police have been called in to investigate the source of the leak but not the monumental abuse of taxpayers' money.

strapworld

We should all make a complaint about our individual MP who is mentioned in the Telegraph, asking the Metropolitan Police to investigate a possible crime of fraud!

They cannot ignore any complaint!

AndyLeeds

Has a strong ring of a planted campaign. Interesting though the Daily Telegraph story was today I bet you will see the Tories claims 'spun' in a far more damaging way. Not for nothing was the DT Political Editor a drinking mate of McBride. All too neat in my view.

David Ossitt

peter.

The Telegraph, and its conservative cronies, think winning elections comes from smearing their antagonists.

Instead of winning the debate.

So that is what your smelly pile of sh*t new labour does is it? win the argument!

peter if you still believe in Gordom Brown then you are one of the very few!

David

You have to wonder if politicans can't understand the rules regarding expenses are they really fit to hold office. In the real world false expenses claims are looked on as stealing and you would lose your job and so should they. Politicans are not special they are Public servants and therefore should answer to the public. Like the bankers their secure pension pots should also be lost should they be found guilty after all as they say there should be NO reward for failure.

Ken

@Simon Denis:
Highly unworthy remarks about the journalism profession methinks.

Indeed your comments are made precisely as the journalists you denigrate, admirably perform the very the job they are trained for -- which in this case is to hold elected politicians to account over sleaze, irrespective of political stripe.

Footnote:
Today's Telegraph is a far remove from the Conservative-supporting paper of which you reminisce.

Archie

strapworld: That would put the cat among the pigeons all right!

Mike Kingscott

@sinosimon: completely agree with you, as does the wife ;-) The "within the rules" mantra merely deflects away from the FRAUD to "the system", when people should be concentrating on the FRAUD.

Athesius the Facilitator

The MPs, especially Stuart Bell just don't get it. They have been rumbled. They should now be scrutinising all their claims and getting geared up for a return of the dosh. This is what the people want to hear. "We will pay it all back, every penny of it". We don't want to here them moaning and whinging and threatening police action against the leaker.

johnny come lately

Should any shadow cabinet be highlighted, this will be a test of Cameron's leadership.
He, in my opinion, must sack them immediately and withdraw their whip-and face deselection-he did it to Conway and he must follow that excellent lead.

Similarly, should any backbench MP be named and shamed they too must have the whip removed and face deselection!

He must not hesitate. He must show ruthless leadership. AND thus gain the moral highground over a prime minister who has allowed his cabinet to get away with it all scot free!

Cameron must show that up with this he will not put!

Mark

Anyone who has posted on the Guardian will know from responses that lefties think they have a monopoly of virtue and altruism. Tories are self-interested, greedy bastards who want to increase unemployment, deny ordinary people access to basic healthcare and education and so on. (This may sound mad, but it's the view of our cracked PM.) So the revelation that the cabinet are and have been on the make is far more damaging for Labour than any revelation (excluding Cameron) can be for the Tories. This will deter traditional Labour voters from voting Labour (not the rump of the old working class, but the fellow travelling civil servants, BBC types etc.) far more than it will cost the Tories votes. But Cameron must be ruthless if any MPs in his party have gone over the line. He did it with Conway (who is no loss) and should be prepared to do it again.

TrevorsDen

"The Telegraph, and its conservative cronies, think winning elections comes from smearing their antagonists."

You cannot smear people with facts. the facts are being made public and we can all make our own minds up.

I reckon being an MP is a tough job, well being a good MP.
They live a peripatetic existence and most of them need a flat in London. Fine.
The real scandal is where MPs claim there second home is their constituency home rather than the London flat. The amount that people can claim for legitimate 'crash pads' is dubious, but when they are doing it for their real 1st home is basic fraud.

And of course that includes our Prime Minister.

john skinner

AndyLeeds
You're right. Andrew Porter is certainly a Labour supporter and should be viewed by the Tories as a hostile witness.
I've thought all along that the Labourgraph received the info from No 10 and the Tory stuff will be trickled out right up to the June elections.

Dirty Euro

The telegraph must publish the details of everyone or nobody. It can protect some crooked mps to help crooked parties.

Kevyn Bodman

Simon Denis at 5.23pm is wrong.
In fact he is so wrong I wonder if he is a troll.

We should know about *all* MPs' expenses regardless of political party.

No fraud should be overlooked or excused on the grounds that the MP is on the same side as you, or me.

And in this case the battle lines are less Labour v Tory than The Political Class v. The Taxpayer.

JohnAnt

If Cameron has any sense he'll go through the Parliamentary Party with a scythe once the reports have come in. Don't force them to commit suicide, Dave, just kill them off - it's cheaper and quicker.