Cameron should act to prevent expenses from recontaminating the brand

Obnoxio The Clown

MPs on all sides of the house are venal, rapacious troughers. How can you restore faith in Parliamentary democracy without slinging the lot of them out and starting again?

Nicholas J. Rogers

Many of these MPs have been in the Commons for a long time. Some have even been called 'bed-blockers'. Maybe now would be an opportune moment for Cameron to tell them that they have had their innings - time to let some young blood in, to ensure a truly fresh Parliament in 2010.

Sally Chatterjee

It looks awful for the Tories but there's an opportunity to clean up with an election coming, the spongers can be cleared out in time for the next vote.

Today's revelations are not about class, for me they are about the ability to represent. How can people vote for someone who thinks its appropriate to get their moat dredged on expenses? How can the Tory frontbench lecture on "austerity" when the backbenches are full of people getting their piano tuned, their hedges clipped or their home renovated?

If I didn't declare my tax properly, I'd get no amnesty. Someone who fiddles benefits gets no amnesty ("no ifs, no buts" runs the DSS slogan).

I'd invite in forensic accountants and demand repayment for any excessive payments within six months or else the MP loses the whip and the faces deselection.

Voice of Reason

There is a very simple method to stop the frankly appalling abuse of my hard earned tax pounds by MP's for their own benefit.

1. Ban all second jobs - if you don't feel that your MP's salary is enough money then leave politics and allow genuinely committed individuals into the House of Commons (i.e. those people who see politics as a vocation rather than the winning ticket on the lottery).

2. Make MP's rent in London rather than buy - then there can be no 'flipping' or claiming for home improvements in order to make a nice profit ( I would also go further an make it compulsary for MP's to live within 10 miles or so of their consituency, and then do everything possible to get Peter Mandleson re-elected for Hartlepool).

3. Gordon Brown, David Cameron and (if any of his MP's are implicated) Nick Clegg should have the courage to sack those MP's who have clearly abused the system.

4. Don't put a knee jerk replacement in place just to placate the public. Do it properly and make sure it is transparent, fair and cost-effective.

Ben Elford

Certainly, MPs who have made unjustifiable claims should have to repay what they owe the taxpayer (and it may follow from this that all claims have to be made public).

At the same time, the most flagrant abusers can be demoted, or have the whip withdrawn. It may not matter if this is done inconsistently (as is almost bound to be the case) if it encourages the others.

Here's an opportunity for Cameron to show decisive leadership, to get rid of the less useful and the embarrassing (Lansley, Maude, Duncan), and show up the do-nothing Gordon Brown.

Forlornehope

Over the last couple of decades that has been a lot of work done on business response to crises. All of it points in one direction. When something goes badly wrong, tell the whole truth as soon as you know it and do the right thing regardless of cost. It almost always leaves you in a stronger position than before. In the unusual case where you go down anyway, at least you keep your self-respect.

Apply this to the Tories and it is fairly clear that some things have to happen. A few of the more blatant offenders against decency should have the whip withdrawn and their constituencies need to deselect them. Anything that is not absolutely squeeky clean needs to be paid back with an apology. It needs to be done today; tomorrow is too late. It's the right thing to do and it might just satisfy the voters.

Publius

I suspect this latest poll reflects voting intentions in the Euro elections rather than a General Election.

Mark C

Cameron should require every existing MP, including himself, to submit him or herself to reselection to be carried out by the end of July. He should appoint his own auditor board to review the expenses claims of each Tory MP for this Parliament and require them to repay any expenses which that board finds should not have been claimed. Failure to do so within a specified period would result in withdrawal of the Whip.

And future expenses claims will be pre-vetted by his new audit board and published as and when submitted.

James

It will take a lot more than resignations, suspensions or repayment through an amnesty to restore the public's faith in this utterly morally bankrupt Parliament. The deselection of all MPs who have been in Parliament for more than 10 years might be a good starting point. Let's clear as many out as possible and try for a fresh start.

Dirty Euro

Expenses is not an excuse to vote for extremist parties that kill jews, gays, and gypises.
The lib dems should be the beneficary with their

Chuck Unsworth

This is, almost entirely, a matter of appearances. A failure to be seen to act decisively will prove remarkably damaging for the Conservatives. Cameron's best hope is to take draconian action. If he is seen to do so, and before the other party leaders, he will place clear blue water between the Conservatives and all others. If he does not, then he runs the risk of being seen as no better than Clegg or - worse - Brown. If he acts after Clegg or Brown he'll be seen to be weak and merely following in the trail of someone else - not a good position for any Leader.

Joe Mooney

Cameron must remove the whip from those who stole money from us the taxpayer.

Not only should they be asked to pay the money back but they must also get the sack. They brought shame on the Conservative Party and they must without delay be asked to leave Parliament.

If Mr Cameron does not sack them the people will at the next election.

Cameron should not worry about finding replacements as they are plenty of good candidates out there whos sole aim is to get into Parliament for the right reasons.

Please Mr Cameron if in doubt chuck these MPs out now.

DM

The MPs who are clearly taking us for a ride should pay the money back forthwith. They should have the whip withdrawn and their constituencies should deselect them. There needs to be a General Election urgently.
There should be an end to the John Lewis list. London rents or cheap hotel overnights should be paid by the taxpayer for those MPs with constituencies outside M25 (yes, I know that is a generous distance). All receipts for expenses incurred in doing the job must be published on line within a month, for all to see.

The constituency chairmen/women should be seriously considering what they can do to clean up politics and if it means deselecting a big name, so be it.

Ian C

Nick's suggestion should do the trick. It needs to be done quickly and decisively.

For those who have not seen it - repay all not 'wholly and necessarily incurred' within 3 months' or you get de-selected.

I would add that those with genuine hard cases to be reviewed by an outsider.

Constant reader

The more i think about this the more it looks like a golden opportunity for Cameron to destroy the pompous tossers of the 1922 committee with no one daring to breathe a word against him for doing so. If he has the guts to take it. He has been ruthless on occasion in the past - sacking Bernard Jenkin for an offence so minor you needed an electron microscope to see it. We now need to raise ruthlessness to a new level. Night of the long knives, please.

Nicholas

Agree Publius. The Speccie is huffing and puffing too much about the Tory expenses. They are not that important. It is governments that need to be held to account not opposition parties and no amount of attention diverting tactics by Labour friends and "useful idiots" will distract me from the far greater crimes of the New Labour gang.

TGF will be pleased I'm going to vote UKIP in the European elections but probably not to hear I still intend to vote Tory in the GE (if there ever is one) on the basis that I want Brown Inc out more than I want Cameron in and I don't want a wasted vote.

Pending voter

Just a thought: how do MPs basic salaries compare with those of the MSM commentariat?

Perhaps the news ads, Marr, Paxman, Robinson, Mair, Toynbee et al should try living on rather less than they currently do.

I am not defending the venal MPs - in fact, I have written to mine about his alleged property shenanigans - but simply want to add another dimension to this matter.

R

I'm afraid that the only way for Cameron to get on the front foot with this is rapidly to announce robust action, along the lines of withdrawal of the whip and deselection at the next election, against the most egregious claimants. This could have the benefit of turning the story around and highlighting Brown's non-response, but more importantly it is also probably the right thing to do.

There is clearly a risk that this will give credence to unfair allegations, but some of the items claimed (pool cleaning and the like) are obviously not essential to the performance of MPs' duties and those involved have only themselves to blame. Sure, they were only doing what most other MPs were (they just had nicer houses) but they could and should have known better; we're not talking neophytes here but very experienced politicians.

PS Voice of Reason: why do you introduce the topic of outside earnings? That has nothing to do with this, and I don't get your point re politics not being a winning lottery ticket; it is MPs with no other profession who are more likely to regard politics as a ticket to riches - those with serious careers have almost certainly foregone earnings by going into politics. I'm more worried about the Commons being full of political hacks who don't know anything about anything.

PPS All of your other points are spot on!

Paul B

I agree with Forlonehope. Maude, Letwin, Hogg and other "grandees" or morr correctly troughing pigs, should have the whip removed and the local constituency instructed to deselect them. The are dinosaurs whose time has past. Be gone.

not so 2trueblue anymore

It is totally unreasonable and dishonest for MPs to claim that the system is wrong. MPs are elected because we deem them to be fit to make decisions on a whole raft of issues. Well, they have certainly failed that test. They were very keen to keep the details from us, only now suddenly are they concerned because they have been exposed. They also want to keep the details from us in the future, they just do not get it; we are fed up with them and their dishonesty.
It is dishonest to bend the rules to make a profit on the taxpayer, and to parrot that it is within the rules is pathetic.

maas101

Cameron could go a long way to appeasing the public by unilaterally declaring that from now on all Tory expense claims will be made public on the party website.

There's nothing like transparency to encourage honesty.

JONNY

Be utterly brutal.
Shoot at least half a dozen crows amongst the worst of Tory Grandee Set.(Not hard to spot).
Just boot them out. Their day is done.
Replace with a massive transfusion of the new blood.
Because my friends as of this morning, the image is truly repulsive.
And hang around Dirty Euro.
I can't wait for the whiter than white Lib Dems to suffer a few blots on their noble escutcheon. (Promised I gather tomorrow).

Vulture

Dithering Dave has got to make good on his so far empty threats if he is to have any hope of retaining his credibility and ousting Liebour.
(Not to mention setting an example that Bruin would have to follow).
A Night of the Long Knives that may see the withdrawal of the Whip from say 50 troughers - including Dave's chums in the shadow cabinet - unless they pay back their outrageous exes in full is the least that an outraged public can expect. He must steel himself to do it. Otherwise its kiss goodbye to the next election. It really is as serious as that.
The public are terminally pissed off.

John Page

As Guido points out, all these claims were lies.

http://www.order-order.com/2009/05/sorry-isnt-good-enough/

"Members are responsible for the probity and propriety of claims submitted. This bluster about it all being approved by the Fees Office, therefore it is not down to the individual MP, is spin and an abdication of responsibility by those culpable. The rules are very clear, in signing for allowances, “the MP’s signature verifies that the expenditure was wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred in the performance of their duties”.

Swimming pools, roses and chandeliers are not necessary for the performance of an MP’s duties."

Kit Salopian

The time has surely come for Cameron to consult Joanne Lumley - if ever there was an expert at filleting venal politicians it is she of the Kukri. She might even lend him one.

simon s

A Night of the Long Knives with the culprits 'voluteering' to stand down at the next election - for the good of the party.

John Page

They all lied. They had to verify that "the expenditure was wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred in the performance of their duties".

They lied, and they stole from taxpayers.

As the campaign against benefit fraud by little people says, No Ifs, No Buts.

Cameron should say, "There is no place in the Conservative Party for liars. They stole from the taxpayers" - and withdraw their whip.

The straight lying is far too serious for some piffling expenses amnesty.

Cameron also politically needs to get his retribution in hard and fast before Brown in a way that Brown can't trump in the Labour party.

If Cameron plays it hard, this could be a great opportunity for him.

paracelsus

Unfortunately, and to the detriment of the country as a whole, many people will see this as a class situation. They will see and hear the headlines of the latest actions of the Tories, albeit the minority it appears, and once again quickly associate the Tories with a different class, and different priorities that don't align with their own.

Cameron needs to be swift and decisive, removing those MPs who have caused the problems and showing that he has the character to act and make tough decisions. The contrast between himself and Brown will then be even more stark for Brown's inability to act.

I also think The Telegraph have been irresponsible in the way this has been handled, and may not realise the broader implications of what they have done. Then again, maybe they do, and that is the whole point. God help us if we end up with a hung parliament. We can thank The Telegraph.

Rivere

As problematic as this incident is for Cameron. The general public have tarnished every MP with the same brush. Only those of us inside Westminister village will pay too much attention to today's "revelations". It seems the public is only angry because MPs are elected officials, yet surely this "expenses" scandal is also relevant in the civil service?

Alex

I am a loyal Conservative. I canvassed last night and will be out again tonight.

Please Mr Cameron, act decisively against these people. Announce that every local association will vote on the reselection or deselection of sitting MPs as soon as possible. We can then reselect those that are doing a good job and chuck out the spongers.

We're supposed to be the party of fiscal responsibility. To find out that some of our representatives have been spraying taxpayers' money about in this fashion is deeply distressing.

If you handle this correctly, you'll have proved you've got what it takes to be a great PM.

Roger

I am not interested in insincere apologies or a promise to clean up in the future, I just want my money back ASAP. Nothing but the repayment of all dodgy/bent claims will placate me.

George Laird

Dear Peter

“Cameron should act to prevent expenses from recontaminating the brand”.

It is too late for that, the “brand” is already contaminated and those who swallow the hype now have a bad taste left in their mouths.

What was Cameron’s excuse for lack of leadership and being inactive?

“Today is one of the biggest days in David Cameron's time as Tory leader”.

Enter hyperbole and meaningless apologies, the paper for patching up the Tory cracks.

“If yesterday's expenses revelations were bad - and they certainly were - then today's are probably even worse”.

Fixing swimming pools in Country estates, now as someone with an interest in politics even I know that a second home allowance is to pay for an MP to stay in London.

I reckon that some people will view this as out and out criminal fraud and misconduct in public office.

“Despite a well stage-managed Tory response to the scandal so far, there's a clear sense that something more needs to be done”.

I note the key part of the sentence is “stage managed”, this is nothing more than a stinking attempt to cover up. When will Cameron trot out it’s the system mantra, today?

It’s not the system, it’s the people claiming and people administrating in the Fees Office, it even extends to the Inland Revenue.

“The Tories are now slipping in the polls just as Labour are, and that's even before voters had heard about backbench extravagance”.

Why should people support a party were they know that those who are just as slimy as New Labour will escape sanction?

“But more worrying for CCHQ than short-term poll slides is the potential for this to recontaminate the brand, especially by injecting some kind of "Tory toff" poison into the political bloodstream”.

The “brand” was never clean in the first place, that is the crucial point, it was repackaged to hide the squalid truth.

Tories don’t change their spots.

“Sure, the charge hasn't stuck when Labour have deployed it. And given the cross-party nature of the expenses scandal, I doubt they can deploy it in future. But that doesn't mean that "Tory toffs" can't germinate and spread as an idea all by itself”.

The Shadow Cabinet is nothing more than rich multi millionaires milking the system as systematically as New Labour with the exception of those not outed.

“If anything's going to encourage it, then it's papers stuffed with the phrase "Tory grandees," alongside mentions of tennis courts, hedges and helipads”.

You missed out ‘country estates’ that is a real eye opener for ordinary people regarding these ‘servants of the public’.

“Don't get me wrong. I think the vast majority of British voters aren't given to class politics. But this goes beyond class: a spilt between decent folk and venal politicians; between workers and parasites; between, in the end, good and bad. I've said it before, but it bears repeating: Cameron's got to act”.

Is Cameron going to withdraw the whip from Gove? Lansley? Arbuthnot? Letwin?

Not a chance; some have been ordered to pay money back and that is damage limitation, a show, a stage managed show for the public.

Not good enough Cameron.

“To be fair to the Tory leader, he's struck the right tone in media appearances this morning, saying that the claims are "out of order," and that he is going to "deal with it".

Didn’t he have meetings with others to work out a strategy, after all you have written the Tory position is “staged managed”, hardly principled stuff yet.

“But what does that mean in practice?”

The Tory Dog and Pony show in practice means nothing, absolutely nothing, people who robbed the taxpayer are going to be so big that they are going to give back what some people rightly see as ‘stolen money’.

“The open publication of all Tory receipts?”

As a PR gimmick it has some traction but Cameron has to say that will apply to all MPs’ if there is a Tory Government, at present that isn’t an absolute.

“Resignations and suspensions?”

Does suspension mean going to hide out the way for a while till the coast is clear?

“Or (an interesting idea mooted by CoffeeHouser Nick, among others, earlier) an expenses amnesty?”

So, everyone caught in effect stealing public money and using public money for private gain gets away with it?

“Whatever, it shouldn't just be about capitalising on the situation - although Cameron can certainly do that at Brown's expense - but, rather, restoring the public's faith in our Parliamentary democracy”.

Peoples’ faith in Parliament will not be restored while the MPs’ who milked the system are allowed to remain in public office; these people need to be removed on mass at a General Election.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

WhatDoIKnow - The Tories Are Finished

Or will be if David Cameron does not act within two days. This is a complete disaster for the Tories and a big opportunity for Labour and the Liberals. I stated in 1997 that the Conservatives would now lose five elections in a row. I hope to be proven wrong but it doesn't look like it now. If Labour remove Brown in June they will be favourites under a new leader in October. The economic green shoots are starting; Alan Johnson against the old 'Tory sleazebags'. The winner is a no-brainer. All Conservative MPs must pay back every penny they have earned on expenses since 2005; if they refuse remove the whip and deselect them. The Spectator Tories (who said that if the big three were clean there would be no problem - What Do They Know), and other Tories are too clever by half. All the talk of McBride, the Budget, Brown's performance means nothing to most members of the public and has been forgotten already. Believe me, if 'Tory sleaze' becomes common currency again it won't be five but six election defeats in a row.

Lord Boyders

Now we have had a bit of Tory action what is the DT planning? Will we hear about the Balls family, or are they in the clear? They don't seem to have said a word since this saga began, which surely means they are waiting for the sword of Damocles to descend or maybe for all their colleagues to fall around them so they can stand tall and un-tainted ready to assume command.

Alf Tupper

The brand?

Please tell me this trend is on the wane, whereby everything - even a political ideal - is to be peddled in the same manner as gravy mix.

Verity

Alf Tupper - I was about to post similarly. A political party is a political belief system. Just because David Cameron came out with the smarty-pants faux sophisticated metropolitan phrase "We have to decontaminate the brand" doesn't mean it has any legitimacy in the minds of the sane.

It trivialises an entire belief system, as you rightly point out. I knew for sure that I loathed him when he reduced the entire structure of the Conservative political belief system, with all its intricasies, subtleties and byways, that I'd been brought up with to being, as you say, a packet of gravy mix.