Brown looks to overtake Cameron on expenses

Colin

Does this mean Brown himself will be deselected ?

Publius

As always with Brown, the devil will be in the detail. As you say, who will decide what is "improper"? Malik's two-and-a-half grand television and his eight-hundred quid "massage chair" are improper, let alone the rest. Will he be deselected? Somehow I doubt it.

In short, it's just the usual Brown spin, utterly devoid of substance, seriousness, or intent.

Nicholas

So that's Jacqui Smith deselected then. Utter drivel this. Please don't conflate Labour spin with real action.

Grumpy Old Man

I don't think Brown has enough support left to make any draconian measure stick. He's already on the record as using the system as a shield. The "improper" word has the ring of another delaying committee about it. Expect the usual U- and W- turns in the coming weeks.

Ctesibius

Will Brown agree to be "automatically deselected" himself, if he has "made improper expenses claims"?

Mark C

I'm not sure that Cameron can himself deselect MPs. Withdrawal of the whip has that effect, though, I suspect.

As for Gordon Brown, it all depends on what he means by "improper". Any case of outright fiddling should result not only in withdrawal of the whip and deselection but prosecution. And Brown has no control over prosecution. If "improper" does not include outrageous exploitation of the expenses regime, but within the rules, then this is just a fig leaf. For example, should Hoon be deselected? Brown has not even saked him from the Cabinet. And the mutterings against Blears seem to have died down during the course of the week.

Cameron has gone much further in making it clear that it will be no defence that a claim was within the rules. He should say that every sitting Tory MP, including himself, will submit him or herself for re-selection following publication of their full expenses claims in this Parliament.

Boudicca

Oh, a few unknown backbenchers will be deselected in seats Labour know are already lost at the next General Election. But you can bet your life that Darling, Blears, McNulty, Smith and all the rest who have bent 'The Rules' to the nth degree - will all be found 'in the clear.'

"All within the Rules, M'Lud. It was the system that was wrong .... the individuals can't be blamed for not understanding what

"Claims must be wholly, exclusively and necessary in order to carry out your job as MP"

actually means.

Brown is preparing a whitewash.

David Shield

Peter
The answer to who will decide if it is improper is contained in the article "any deselection would happen after the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards had ruled an MP had been found guilty of improper conduct." How long would that take given the numbers involved? Yet another headline grabbing manouvere. Brown can give as many interviews as he wants no one is listening!!

AuldCurmudgeon

In other words, Gordon's going to expel his parliamentary majority?

I think poor old Fagin had better think it out again.

Pete Hoskin

Nicholas: my final paragraph above is me not "conflating Labour spin with action."

TrevorsDen

He will have to sack half his cabinet then, but since they are plotting to remove him anyway, then it will be no great sacrifice.

BTW - since I see no justification in Brown flipping his London flat for his house in his constituency - will he sack himself?

Forlornehope

Given the action taken on Malik and the non-action on Blears, Smith et al, do I notice a hint of "institutional racism" at the top level of the Labour Party? Surely not!

Steve.W

I would have thought that the deselection powers are held by the constituency associations. So is Gordon Brown usurping them; is this another example of his glorious socialist centralising tendencies?

Silent Hunter

Completely agree with Boudicca here.

This will be yet another Brownie - if a WHITEWASH can be called such a thing?

Michael

David Cameron is right!!
Whilst he can withdrow the whip, only the people can sack their politician. Gordon Brown has no right to deselect a constituency MP. Labour brutality again, as usual.

R

The word 'automatically' doesn't mean anything in this context; each MP would have be specifically and consciously deselected. Not very many, if any, will be, and certainly no big fish.

Paul Freeman

I thought Brown had already left. Is he still there? As Randolph Churchill remarked of a previous incumbent 'An empty taxi arrived at 10 Downing Street, and when the door was opened Attlee got out.'

Prodicus

Brown will have his work cut out. Malik's constituency committee were all on their hind legs yesterday saying 'our man right or wrong and of course he's not wrong'.

RobertD

Unless Brown's announcement includes sacking cabinet ministers like Smith, Darling and Hoon, and a purge of the lower ranks it will be seen as meaningless hot air.

The only area Cameron needs to clarify and emphasis is that deselection is the perogative of the local conservative associations (localism in action) and that CCHQ will not stand in the way of any association that wants to require their MP to undergo a new selection process then his position will be the more credible.

Alf Tupper

' ...any Labour MP who has "made improper expenses claims" will be "automatically deselected" and prevented from standing in the next election.'

Looking at thier prospects, deselection won't seem like such a bad deal for most.

Duyfken

I'm rather slow in catching up on events and this may already be in the offing, but should not Cameron insist that all Tory sitting MPs undergo a re-selection process within the next month?

robert

Maybe deselecting all Labour MP's and getting them to jump of Beachy Head is the "extreme action" Brown promises? Oh no - it was a committee. Fools.
Sooner we get Cameron in to sort out this total mess, the better.

teledu

Brown's taking a big gamble by giving an interview on Monday about this IF (and that's a big IF), he's given a vigorous grilling.
In all probability though, his interviewer will be the usual, zanuLabour sympathiser.
Will he be forcefully questioned about the behaviour of Jacqui Smith, Hazel Blears, Strawman, Hoon, McNulty and why he's taken no action against them?
Will he be repeatedly asked to answer questions he's avoided giving a straight, uncomplicated response to?
Will he be asked if he thinks the money spent by the Speaker on Lawyers in an attempt to stop MPs expenses being made public was a good way to use taxpayers money?
I won't hold my breath.

Bocephus

Does Balls not claim his London home is his second home despite the fact he lived in London for years before he became an MP and spends most of his time there. The Telegraph went nuts today about that female Tory for doing something similar but have virtually ignored Balls. Why?

Brown claimed for a house cleaner and the media have decided that's okay yet the same media have decided claiming for a garden cleaner is absolutely outrageous. What's the difference?

The press seem to have decided they will not go after the big boys. Why?

NickL

David Cameron's threat of withdrawinbg the whip is just as strong as "de-selection" - no MP not carrying the Conservative whip can stand at the next election as a Conservative.

David

From what I understand, Brown is talking about breaking the rules. As Cameron has said, if the rule themselves are wrong, this is pointless.

Verity

Nicholas, of course Jackboots Smith will be deselected! She's been a pain in the arse to Brown, she's stupid, she is loathed and jeered at and reviled. Now she can do service as a public sacrifice.

And of course Cameron was always going to be outflanked by Brown! Brown's an old political hand. Poncy public relations moves are fragile against the muscle and clenched fist of a wily old politico.

Tim B

It will be a long, involved process to come up with criteria and judgment on those who have made improper claims. What is "improper"? Is claiming a bath plug improper? At what point between a bath plug and 16k for a non-existent mortgage does 'improper' begin? Does a 9k kitchen job when you have a grace and favour home qualify as 'improper'?

It'll be like another Brown budget, full of detail, complexity and not at all as advertised.

logdon

You watch, Malik will be back through that revolving door in double quick time after Brown's 'inquiry' restores his 'integrity'.

Incredibly Brown still does not get it. It's as if his very soul has been taken over by some corrupt body snatcher.

He is so steeped in the way of New Labour politics formulated by himself, Mandelson and Blair which places 'narrative' over all else. Including truth. In his mind truth is what he says it is and it's been that way for the last twelve years.

After the merest of 'investigation' the technicality of the favour Malik has entered into with his landlord will be whitewashed and Malik will be beaming with an 'I told you so' expression as if all then will be well.

Only it won't. We're past all that bullshit now. We refuse to be conned any longer and this disingenuousness will be viewed quite rightly as more insult to our intelligence's.

The only rescue is truth and honesty. Not a version of this which is mere flim flam cover up but the reality and reflection of the actual.

Trouble is that Brown is quite incapable of this. He is so self obsessed and convinced of his own holiness that at every turn he reaches for the self aggrandising when the opposing facts are there, plain for all to see.

The refrain of, ‘no, Nick you are quite wrong’ will echo as a hapless Robinson flail’s around in a vain attempt to extract some sort of honesty.

Well, the court of public opinion is having it’s day. They are saying in their droves, ‘no, Brown, it is you who is quite wrong’ and he’ll go down, protesting his innocence until the day he dies.

And isn’t that the way of all megalomaniacs?

Jeremy

The facts of the matter are that Gordon Brown has been Prime Minister for the past two years, and before that he was Chancellor of The Exchequer from - what? - 1997? He has known all about all of this all along. Since becoming Prime Minister he has been in a better position to do something about it than anybody else. And yet he has done nothing - until, that is, the details of MPs fraudulent expenses claims were printed in the Telegraph and therebye made public. And even after this he did nothing about his individual MPs who have been on the fiddle until their individual cases saw the light of day in the press. He no longer holds any claim to any moral high ground whatsoever. We have an implicated Prime Minister, a bent government and a bent Parliament - presided over, incidentally, by a bent Speaker. I think the thrust of Norman Tebbit's intervention was basically corrent - one can no longer really justify to oneself voting for any of the three main parties currently represented in Parliament. By their behaviour, they have all caused profound upset to the people of this country and they are all implicated in the degredation of our political process. I agree with what Peter Oborne wrote in today's Mail, that those MPs who have not been on the fiddle should be re-elected next time, but I also think that it is the duty of voters to turf the rest of them out of parliament. And the best way of doing that is to find something other than Lib/Lab/Con to vote for.

And the next question which needs to be answered is this: What exactly is the extent of the expenses scams going on in the European Parliament

Victor, NW Kent

So far Brown has suspended two MPs of startling obscurity. Will any party expel, suspend or whatever, any of the big guns?

Certainly not, so far these are just expendable whipping boys.

Tam Dalyell, Clare Short and Tony Blair are beyond reach and Blair's expenses were accidentally shredded anyway.

David Boycott

a) Brown's de-selections won't happen

b) Cameron is in no position to deselect MPs - that is a matter for local associations. Withdrawing the whip is the most he can do.

kit salopian

Forget all that stuff about rules and what spent what on which and whom (although the closest we've come to a "maasage" is Malik's chair).

The real issue behind Brown's latest dictat lies in his political ineptitude. What Prime Minister of Sound Synaptic Connections would invite a situation where he might find himself having to reshuffle his cabinet three weeks before an election.

Two possibilities

1 - the synapses are really malfunctioning

2 - he'll fudge the rules

(well yes there is the third - both of the above)

Nicholas

"Nicholas, of course Jackboots Smith will be deselected!"

Let's wait and see shall we? I will be glad to be proven wrong but somehow I doubt her snout will be removed from the trough. Currently it looks as though Chaytor is Brown's sacrificial lamb.

Spin, tokenism, lies and more spin. The four controls on Brown's ghastly presidential vehicle.

Richard

Mr Burns: 'Excellent'

AndyLeeds

Brown really is a pathetic moron. He wont do anything as per usual. The reason he has been so slow with all of this is that he is completely clueless about how we all live, about how we cope with money etc. If he had any idea he would not have scrapped the 10p tax band nor invented Tax Credits. And what is more I would like a full and detailed examination of his own expenses. That bill for the cleaner seems very excessive to me.

Chris

We need a general election now. It is the only way to really start afresh.

David Cameron should lead a vote of no-confidence in parliament - not a specific attack on Labour. All of the expenses saga should be on one independant website where the public can judge for themselves and then if local associations are happy that an mp's expenses won't be judged improper, they can allow them to stand for re-election alongside competitors.

oldrightie

Slowly Oldrightie's conspiracy continues to become more and more probable. The EU elections are torpedoed, Brown has created an atmosphere to hide motive for sacking people whilst appearing to do "the right thing". Once he considers his plan is at it's peak for de-stabilising Cameron and The Conservatives, bingo an election gets called. Brown has a much greater flock of sacrificial lambs to slaughter. Note how quiet Mandymince is.

Verity

Kit Salopian - Malik's chair! V good! I suspect, as someone said on this or another thread, Malik will be back. He's an old fashioned Tammany Hall/Chicago style politician: he can deliver votes. Maybe that chair is a revolving chair as well and he'll be right back in the door.

What does their prophet have to say about massage chairs, by the way? I get the feeling that he wouldn't approve.

Roger

There should be a race to see how many each Party Leader can have deselected. Good for the macho-management image.

logdon

@ Jeremy
May 16th, 2009 2:00pm

Have you seen the YouTube film of MEP porkers doing the RORO?

In at the crack of to clock on, then off home thus claiming the allowance without doing one single thing for the constituents.

If not such a serious matter it is quite hilarious.

One woman oinker spotting that she was being filmed and doing her level best to scuttle off. Then getting trapped in the lift followed by camera only to purport outrage at being followed.

If anyone else was caught in this way they'd be P45ing it before the day was over. This lot just shrug it off and it's back to the trough.

It is a complete scandal and as a metaphor, a perfect summing up of a bloated, dictatorial EU who would sell us down the Eurabia river quicker than you could blink.

Imagine if Turkey got in?

Fergus Pickering

Verity, Brown is a busted flush. There is nothing he can do in any direction. Nobody cares what he thinks and nobody cares what he does. He's like the Emperor Vitellius awaiting the armies of Vespasian. Vitellius hid in a dog kennel, but that didn't save him. His corpse was dragged to the Tiber and booted in. The Thames would do very well!

Tricia

Brown can only plot tactically; he will aim to outflank the Tories. But strategically, he's lost it. He is known for laying down a friend for his life and friends often don't like it...

Andy

Very convenient that Blair's expenses were accidentally shredded, n'est-ce pas?

jon dee

"The action must be swift and decisive".

So says our comatose prime minister as he's woken up by his spin doctors, just in time for the Sunday's.

Jon

Verity - she's goes again

...yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn

Tankus

Any repayment is an admission of immorality ....

sack every one of the paybackers , jail the ones that don't ..hang the most blatant , Isn't the death penally still valid for treason ?

Pity lord Sutch is dead , he would be in on the protest vote at the next elections

johnny come lately

Cameron, please, please remove the whip from them all! No ifs nor buts. The public demand nothing less.

You have got enough talent without the Maude's and co. The public consider them all fiddlers. Believe they should all be in Ford Open Prison.

bitter and twisted

JCL Preferably Guantanamo

daveD

if your a shrewd follower of politics you will know that voting Labour is the only party worth voting for

logdon

Is this part of his 'clean up plan?'

From today's MOS.

"Michael Martin to quit, but not until after next Election to install son in 'hereditary' seat and claim £100,000 golden parachute."

Rhys Burriss

OPEN PRIMARIES NOW !!
The solution to who gets deselected is very simple:

The baseline originating cause of all this is the capture of Parliament by the - 'never worked in a real job' - class - people with degrees in PPE and 'experience' as bag carriers or 'researchers' for Party HQ.

Therefore only acceptable reform ( and it is one that MPs who have not made fraudulent claims need not fear ) is for all parties to hold OPEN PRIMARIES of their members plus any members of the public prepared to sign up as broadly supportive of the party's stated ideals (sic)..

Sitting MPs could compete with other potential candidates in 'Question Time' type debates and see who emerges as the candidate for that party in that constituency - hopefully persons who have for at least 20 years made a real contribution to society as policemen, shop assistants, doctors, bricklayers, JPs: whatever.

The ludicrous business of teenagers and 20-somethings with connections being chosen as candidates must stop.

People who know what the struggle to put bread on the table is really about would be less likely to have the unjustified sense of entitlement which is how this has all arisen.

OPEN PRIMARIES NOW - that's the cry - will the Spectator do something useful by supporting this very simple - but effective -reform ?

MikeF

Given the number of Labour seats likely to be lost at the next General Election a measure of this sort would not actually 'deprive' these individuals of anything they would not have lost in any case. In fact some of them might quite welcome the prospect of being able to claim that they were scapegoated by the party machine and not voted out by the electors.

Tom Maynard

Too much complacency on the Tory side, and too many supine and sycophantic constituency committees.
A couple of deselections would do a world of good. Hogg and Maude should head the list - they've done more than anyone else to damage the party.

Tom Maynard

Too much complacency on the Tory side, and too many supine and sycophantic constituency committees.
A couple of deselections would do a world of good. Hogg and Maude should head the list - they've done more than anyone else to damage the party.