The government's identity crisis

Andrew Palmer

I am truly flabbergasted. How are they going to make this one good? You wait until the investigation and enquiry has completed to discover the full extenet of the carelessness with which our personal data has been treated with. there's more to come - always is!

AppalledofLondon

I am one of those parents. Thank God I didn't use my main bank account to receive this benefit but even so now I will have to close down that account, the accounts my children have and monitor everything else even more closely. If I suffer any form of fraud or identity theft then I will expect reimbursement in full from the Government whose fault this is. I intend writing to the Chancellor to demand this: every other affected parent should do the same. As for ID cards / NHS database / telling officials every detail of your travel plans: forget it! I don't intend telling the Government anything at all. Darling should resign: in fact, the whole bloody lot of them should go. And if you want to have a grim laugh look at the Home Office's own "How to protect yourself from ID theft website" at http://www.identity-theft.org.uk/index.htm.

anon for obvious reasons

My son and my grand daughters details are now out and about somewhere. I find this terrifying. Family conference tonight. Thanks Labour!!

Peter Stoffe

Expect two CD's to magically appear and getthe Govt. out of a hole (although some cynical souls may well think they do indeed have the Arctic Monkeys on them instead of 15 million names....)

Andy P

I think this has the capacity to topple the government. This is truly unprecidented and the reason why this crisis is different is because everyone in the land (more or less) is affected (or someone they know) and the potential for fraud is beyond calculation. the previous commenter was bang on -forget ID Cards, the government cannot be trusted with our information.

a. king

Everyone out there needs to change their bank accounts. If the disks are not found and someone is in possession of them then they can use this info 2 or 3 years from now. Even if they are found they could still have been read and copied.

paula locker

i am absolutely disgusted i have four children living with me,i now have to close my account and wait a week before another card comes through,in the meantime i wont be able to get any money out of my account.People think they can trust child benefit and the goverment how wrong we all were.

s lake

I have now lost all faith with the goverment dim witts, what bright spark allowed a careless numb nuts to be incharge of personal and confidencial post any way, they must have been on one big trip or canned up i,m now voteting the blues due to all of this

Peter

Can we have a little touch of sanity here? There should be, first of all, no political implications - it is a procedural/admin matter, for which the right man has rightly resigned, and to attempt to extend the blame to Government ministers is rank political opportunism. As far as we can tell at the moment, Darling et al have acted in a proper and timely fashion. secondly, I would have expected less ill-informed panic from subscribers here. We all remain fully protected by bank guarrantee, against bank fraud. This is a an ever-present threat anyway, and anyone who does not check their bank statements already has been asking for trouble. If we as Conservatives expect everyone to take responsibility for their own affairs, surely that includes taking responsibility for whatever goes into or out of their bank accounts? If this almighty fuss causes more folk to be more vigilant over teir own affairs so much the better.

bernard

This happened a month ago! The details will be all over Nigeria by now.

argy

This is interesting in the context of today's Guardian report that three-quarters of GPs say that medical records would become less secure on the new NHS database and that nearly two-thirds are unwilling to upload any record without the patient's specific consent: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/nov/20/nhs.health. I wonder what the findings might have been if doctors had been responding today instead of two weeks ago?

Disgruntled Parent

Well, having been a victim of attempted identity fraud (through data 'published' by another organisation)and also being someone who is extremely careful with their personal data, I am disgusted that after I go to great lengths to protect myself from this kind of fraud, all my efforts can potentially be undone by some junior employee in an organisation like HM revenue & customs. I am sorry, but I disagree with the comment that the government is not to blame. This junior employee should NEVER have been in the position to have access to all of this sort of information in the first place, let alone the ability to download the data to discs and send it out of the organisation. The correct policy's and procedures are obviously not in place and the government should take some responsibility in this.

Bruce Robertson

I'm with Peter. Silly media fuss. BUT no data should leave any office en clair.

Mrs Joanne Pearson

how can someone in the low level of the department be able to download all of the info onto 2 disks and post with no register or recorded delivery it is a shambles what are any of us supposed to do, keep an eye on our bank accounts yeah ok then how long for? also all of our childrens details are in the open, anyone can take all of the details sign on claim a form of benefit claim tax credits using our childrens details GOVERMENT WHAT R U GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Mike

Peter - a small dose of reality. If a major bank had lost all its customer details i.e. names, addresses, bank account details - placed them on unencrypted CDs and then left them in the Dog & Duck there would be an absolute outcry. The shares would collapse, the CEO would resign closely followed by the board. Frankly it's the same here. It is not a procedural/admin matter it's a matter of accountability. The Head of HMRC has rightly resigned (as you say), and Darling claims that the HMRC is "operationally independent of government". which is nonsense. Darling's junior Jane Kennedy, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, has "overall responsibility for HM Revenue and Customs". Both Darling & Kennedy should resign. The stench of death is upon this government. The watchword of Brown is incompetence. We can now add HMRC to the long list (immigration number debacle, tax credits, Northern Rock and so on)

Napoleon

Peter- The problem is, many people take care of their bank account, but this numbers wouldn't/shouldn't be in bad hands if the government had not lost these information. Can someone be assured that they won't lose more? And, of course, it's a political matter, someone inside the "Treasury" downloaded the data of 25 million people around the UK. As Cable said:"where does buck stop?" And I say this as a non-Conservative!!!!

Clive H.

Ulike some people out there (who are well off)I am a single parent and cannot work full time, what little money i make goes onto my 2 children, so yes i regard this as a high threat to my personal information aswell as my childrens personal information and to know that by the time they are 18 they will be blacklisted and will not be able to get any sort of credit etc, now indirectly the government are to blame as they should have come up with one of these so called back up plans, but as per usual they have let our society down by allowing these people to get their hands on our and our childrens information, to know all this is frightening, i have already been subject to someone using my name and i know how it feels, but for my childrens names to be used is frightening, the government should of forseen this happening and liased with the child benefit office to have the data that may be stored onto discs to be erased or something if it goes into a computer other than one it is intended for, i know that they can o this as it is being used in america, but as per usual we lack this technology. i appologise if this upsets anyone but it is my own personal belief.

Jackie V.

I don't have children, but even so, this security leak scares the living daylights out of me, especially as fraud in on the increase anyway. I find today's news quite unbelievable on such a massive scale. This has to be sorted now, on behalf of all the British public!

Liz

If 25m people change their bank accounts tomorrow it's going to take a little longer than a week to get a new bank card!!! As for the "junior official" it's hardly the fault of the youngsters of today being given too much responsibility when employment policy favours the young the beautiful and cheaper paid substitutes to experience and warts.

ucngtstfd!!

The negligent 'ones', need we say any more, should be placed on trial now for fraud as they obviously think that they will get away with this appalling move. Why should we let our younger ones (children) suffer because of the governments incapabilities. I no longer want to be a part of this country as i am ashamed to say that i am British! I have given it thought for many months to get out of this country and move to a place where you are treated as an individual. Incapacitated through childhood illness, we are expected to prove to those who push pens etc that we are incapable of work. I would like just one of those incompetants to take on my day and see how it affects them because i do not enjoy my days. Get this country sorted out back to the way it was 20 years ago and we will be nearly happy!! Very annoyed brit (soon to be ex-brit) citizen.

Stan Dandeliver

I suspect there is a link here with the 'brain drain' and the 'whither 56 days' stories on other pages. HMRC, the Home Office, the Treasury, the Security Service et al are recruiting from the dim-witted public-sector junkies that lack the initiative to leave the UK. But it's good to see someone resigning. Well done that bloke with a beard.

MARIA

what with northern rock now the hm custom losing important data where is our money safe MOTHERCARE

mary

I think it is disgusting how could any one be so careless i have six children and it has scared me about what has happened.

David Ram

i cannot believe that such sensetive information is entrusted to office juniors to be despatched,i also think that hm customs should be using register mail with royal mail. It digusts me That it has taken over 1 week for us the public to find out that our information has gone missing and the chanceller should step down due to ghis lack of control.

mother of 4 Girls

I am totally outraged that this has happened, my childrens names,ages and address is out there and no matter what our fat cat labour party have to say I wont be reassured, first thing tomorrow I will be changing my account.That saves my money but what about all the other information our names, our addresses, our N.I numbers, our ages,thats still out there. THANKS LABOUR!!!!! wont be voting for you this year.

John Billot

I would expect the West Midlands police to be on this in a trice - watch out The Spectator!

marie

at arond 4.00pm today i went to draw some money of my speed bank card it appeared there was no money in there in which there was as i checked it this morning i phoned my bank to be told my bank accont has been shut down but couldnt find out why i was told to go to my local bank tommorow and they will look into it. if this has got anything to do with this i just hope the goverment are going to pay every penny back i am horrified

John

It's an utter fiasco. How safe is ANY personal information in the hands of this government? At least it means the ID Card tyranny is dead in the water - who will agree to this now? For how much longer can Darling survive? The government is losing public confidence week by week.

Kirstin

Gutted is the word i would use there is no way i will be voting labour ever again. I will be closing my account 2morrow

Janette

How the hell can something like this happen , someone could be going about with my name address bank details ,national insurance number and my kids details and we are told not to worry ,i am totally devasteted not just for today but for years to come what might happen

karen upton

im a mother of 3 and find this goverment a load of crap to allow this kind of thing to happen to us and our children well done on this one you all need to get out

Verity

Labour voters: Surely you never thought that this - and the Blair bunch - of student Trots who had never held a job were capable of running anything? Never mind a major country? Would you trust Gordon Brown to be the chief executive of a huge supermarket chain in which you owned shares? I thought not. Would you trust Jack Straw to run an oil company in which you held shares? Would you trust Harriet Harmon to run an airline in which you owned shares? Face it - you wouldn't even dare board it. And yet you voted this group of non-achievers who have never held an actual job to run your country, with all the intellect, experience and trust that that entails. And you kept on ignorning the evidence that they were incompetent third-rater imposters through two following elections. Mike - above - wrote that there is a stench of death about this government. The bolt of truth.

sylvia

This government could not run a one-ticket raffle. The absolute incompetence of this government is beyond belief.

Tiberius

As the full extent of this matter sinks in, and in the light of the above posts of the parents (of which I am also one), it seems almost grotesque to call this Labour's Black Wednesday.

Barry Wrightson

What an incompetent set of wallies! For furure reference folks, to transfer information securely, as we do with on line banking and to buy books from amazon, use an encrypted link! If you must put it on a disk, then encrypt it and send the key some other way, not with the data!! Can somebody please get these guys up to date.

angry parent

it not just the money i am a parent that had to go into hiding from my ex partner due to violence he nearly killed my kids aswell now he could find us

costard

'Peter' is missing the point with his rather complacent comments. We are not panicking, we are annoyed. It is the cavalier way in which large quantities of personal data has been handled by a government department that is so galling. Businesses in the private sector are forced to spend enormous amounts on complying with data protection legislation. And those businesses which are regulated by the Financial Services Authority find themselves on the sharp end of regulatory sanctions if they lose customer personal data. So why shouldn't we expect the same rigorous standards from government departments?

jacqueline brownlee

while i am shocked and disgusted that this sort of incompetent act could occur and put the children at risk , i will focus on the fact that this has taken 4 weeks to be revealed to the public generally. Not any personal contact to anyone, and not a decent apology to the parents involved . What I would like to know is , if they can cover this up for a few weeks , what else have they kept from us , amd how many other cover ups do we not know of. My details and my childrens details are now open to anyone and it would be a paedophiles paradise to get their hands on that information. I shall certainly be demanding that the government compensate every individual for the distress caused by the total shambles of this.

Karron

I can't believe this, it is an outrage. I have been onto the bank all morning trying to change my details. No matter what they say i dont see them fixing this one. Why are these things sent via mail anyway? Or why are they sent at all? Careless and stupid.

A.C.Norton

Did not this government give itself the powers to inspect any bank account? Overriding any privacy guaranteed by the bank itself? If so, how many government employees can trawl through my financial details? 300,000?

Christine wilkinson

I am in the same boat as everyone else, am disgusted beyond belief. But I would have thought that the phone number they have given us to ring in If we suspect our bank details have been compromised, would have been an 0800 number...

name - you must be joking!

How much more fat cat sh**e do we have to keep swallowing...talk about Third World Britain - no wonder more and more people are literally leaving this country behind.

H Horsfield

It's a outraged, we must get labour out! shall we take to the streets like france before the next disaster. The government is destroying our country and the hard working people who live here.

Napoleon

Nothing to do with the subject, but I never saw so many comments in one thread!!!

NOSEY AINT U LOL ??

YES IM IN SHOCK TO AT THIS PERSONAL INFO LET LOOSE FANCY DOWNLOADING INFO LIKE THIS ON TO TWO DISCS THEN POSTING THEM WITH OUT EVEN SO MUCH AS A SIGNITURE ?? MIND YOU IVE NEVER VOTED AND NEVER WILL !!

CS

I'm an employee of many years of HMRC (don't hit me) and the last thing that people should be concentrating on is this "junior official" making a mistake. This is a direct result of years of chaotic short-termism of the management of the tax departments, culminating in the flogging off of their estates to a tax haven (at a massive loss to the public purse) and then the forced merger 2 years ago of two Depts which barely had any functions in common and then cutting one third of the staff. The staff who are leaving are the ones doing the vital checks which prevent disasters like this happening (more often than not). What you have to face up to is that, if you have what is in part a law enforcement dept holding vital personal information on the whole nation, you can do one of two things. You can either institute secure procedures to ensure that things are done safely and fairly - in which case you need the armies of faceless bureaucrats that The Spectator so often lambasts. Or you can do things on the cheap with too few untrained staff paid a pittance - in which case you're going to get this sort of cock-up. A cock-up by the an average Govt Dept can cause great inconvenience for people. A cock-up by a Dept with the powers and responsibilities of HMRC can destroy people's businesses and lives. Make your minds up - staff them properly and effectively or run for the hills and take cover.

Tiberius

CS: in this case, would it not have simply been possible for a single senior IT manager to create limited access rights to the data, rather than employ an army of bureaucrats?

Henry Wood

CS, Interested in your comments. Not particularly relevant to the issues you raised, but a divorcee of my acquaintance works for HMRC in VAT somewhere in the southern home counties. She has told me that she sometimes uses the personal financial information held by her department (on a system called 'Vision' or something, I think) to check out the turnover of her potential suitors. Perhaps she could be seconded to use some of her valuable time to carry out these vital checks....

Roy Murphy

oh dear, sounds like we need a pair of safe hands on this - luckily the world of sport (as ever) has a solution -http://www.halperncowan.com/viral/safe_pair.jpg

are you having a laugh?>

im a digusted mother of one. im not so much bothered about the money its the fact that our names addresses etc r out ther somwhere, who knows who could get thier hands on this information ie, sex offenders.

are you having a laugh?

disgusted mother of 1. its not so much the fact that we could loose money. its the fact that all the other information that people could get thier hands on like our names addresses tel numbers etc, who know that sort of information could be in anyones hands now like sex offenderes for instance

L

Just wondering to why i can not find an offical site from Labour apologising for this happening in the first place and with recommendations to those affected. It would also be nice if they give areas that have been affected and not just figures. They also seem to be blaming a junior for this happening surely he was given an instruction by a senior, therefore i can not see the justification in the junior resigning from his role and not the senior. All my faith in Labour has gone.

un happy mother

iam also disgusted at the way we are being told not to worry ,i have 4 children who knows what all our futures hold for us now we. can change bank accounts, but we cant change names address birth dates etc.also what will happen when our children reach 18?

CS

Henry Wood, it's entirely possible for her to do that (assuming she knows her potential suitor's VAT number). However, if she has a password for the system, she must work in a field requiring her to be able to access details of people's VAT returns. And, if her work requires her to do so, there'd be little point in placing restrictions on her ability to do so. She's a tax officer so naturally she has access to confidential information about people's tax affairs. That's inevitable otherwise you'd have administrative paralysis. Admittedly, the system you mention doesn't contain any great secrets but, if she were to publicise that information by conveying it to anyone other than a colleague or the taxpayer himself, that would be an offence. The restriction on accessing non-relevant info on people you know (for personal curiosity) was always more a sense of taboo than any physical or legal blocks on your doing so. Problem is that, as the senior civil service has been gradually politicised and expediency has replaced neutrality and any sense of pride in working for a higher cause (don't laugh), that attitude has gradually bled down to the junior ranks. Sounds a bit old fashioned, doesn't it. Like most of our constitutional checks and balances, it's relied for years on people knowing that "it's not cricket". Fine when you have an impartial career civil service where advancement is based on doing a good job and gaining valuable experience. Not so fine these days when advancement is primarily gained by saying the right things and never expressing an independent opinion. Yes, we know many people's personal secrets but the vast majority of us never feel that naughty itch to share those secrets (because of the taboo thing). The secret that we really long to tell the world is what a venal gang of shysters is running and administering our country. That's why, despite the genuine shock at the unprofessionalism of the loss of this information, there's been an unholy air of satisfaction permeating the nation's tax offices over the last 48 hours. By the way, what an unpleasant gold-digger of a friend you seem to have.

drdisgusted

Inland revenue has been totally negligent. To blame this sort of thing on lack of resources is to be passing the buck to a nameless faceless scapegoatand to avoid responsibility. No, i want to know why a junior official had the capability to download all this data in the first place and why the data protection act was breached and who is going to be prosecuted for this criminal act. And if the government fails to prosecute and fails to issue prompt guidance as to how we parents should now protect our children and our finances then the government needs to go. And yes i voted labour all this while but the party isnt in issue here it is the extent of the crime in issue.

diane

i can not believe how careless the goverment are.if our childrens identity information is not safe with the goverment who is it safe with?.british people have no trust or faith in our goverment and they have the nerve to ask why.the blame will be passed on to some clerk who will be used as a scape goat and the real blame is down to money cuts.the british goverment is a joke and if someone has got these discs they are laughing at our goverment as they know they can do as they please with them as no one can stop them.

A very angry parent!!!

This is absolutely appalling. I am a mother of a child with severe autistic needs and that money is essential for her care. I am outraged that this has been allowed to happen and if anything happens I will also expecta reimbursement from the government!!

WENDY

IT IS DISGUSTING IN THIS DAY AND AGE SUCH A THING CAN HAPPEN ,WELL I THINK THAT EVERYONE THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS SHOULD GET COMPENSATION ,ITS NOT RIGHT WE SHOULD BE WORRYING LIKE THIS ,THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO RUN THE COUNTRY LET THEM PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES,IF THE SHOE WAS ON THE OTHER FOOT WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY

spoonie

i am a single parent and by no means blaim the government for what some jumped up little office clerk has done. yeah we should have been told sooner but we were which does surprise me in the slightest.im am lucky enough to have identity fraud insurance

hayley

i think this is so disgusting and careless! i think we should get compensation for having to worry about such a big and stupid mistake made by the government. thought we were meant to be able to trust you people!

SHARON

I THINK IT IS A DISGRACE , WE GIVE OUR PERSONAL DETAILS OUT AS THERE MENT TO BE SAFE, NOW SOME IDIOT HAS GONE AND LOST THEM, I AM A SINGLE MUM OF 3,WHOM HAS MOVED AWAY DUE TO A VOILENT RELASHIONSHIP TO START A NEW LIFE WITH MY KIDS, AND THEN THIS HAPPENS. IF THESE HAVE GOT INTO THE WRONG HANDS I'LL HOLD EVERYONE RESPONSIBLY HOW WAS MENT TO KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND MENT TO KNOWING THERE JOB.

somethings got to be done!!!!!!

i have already been a victim of identity theft and hundreds of pounds were taken from mu account just after the birth of my daughter. the money was spent in hong kong and i had no income while the situation was being investigated for three months!!! it isnt so much the fact of the money its an invasion of privacy and it makes you feel violated.the fact that my dughter's details are anywhere now, maybe in the hands of a fraudster or worst a sex offender makes me sick. if this was a normal employer's mistake the company would be shut down or at least you could go elsewhere, but with the hm revenue you are forced to release your details in the first place. compensation should be issued whether a victim or not!! this is GROSS NEGLAGENCE!!!! and the system needs to be checked. fair enough the government do a lot of good for the country but things like this are totally unacceptable and one information update on the hm revenue website only stating sorry and how to protect yourself is not sufficient considering the scale of this scandal. people can steal your identity with only your name let alone all of the information that has been lost. worst case senario some perverted wierdo turns up at your door. i do not agree that everyone is overreacting due to media frenzy this is a serios issue and anyone who does not believe it to be, are very flax in security beliefs indeed. i for one will not take this lying down. everyone should look into legal advice regarding compensation. i just hope the details are still on government property and not in the hands or criminals or weirdos. its going to take more than a sorry to make this issue go away. i though identity cards were a good idea at first protecting us from criminals and illegal immigrants etc but what we need to ask ourselves is who we actually need protecting from????? im even wary of having to say my email in order to post my comment!! we should not have to live in fear!!

sarah wallace

i have just recieved a letter of personal appology this morning saying that my details were amongst those lost it wasnt that personal as it didnt even have a hand written signature on the bottom it was just a standard computer written letter everyone must have recieved. This whole fiasco just goes to show what a poor state this hell whole of a country is in not only do the government take most of your money off you in taxes they have now given the entire world population the access to fraudulantly bleed you dry also if you ask me its just going to end up a spokes person saying that the disks have been found and us general public wouldnt be none the wiser if it has or hasnt because we are on a need to know basis and like all government matters we dont need to know . in my opinion scrap the bloody govenment as they are useless any way too many cheifs and not enough indians all sat there in the posh suits with lots of money while us workers work our entire lives for nothing apart from continual let downs and taxes. The pittence you actually get from child benefit is no more than a kick in the teeth then for them to have lost all our important confidential details is ridicule if it was a general company who had done this it would be looked at as a breech of confidentiality and people would be suing?n does any one know our rights can we sue child benefit when we will never now the truth??????

Clare Fleming

I received a letter from one David Harnett of the benefit's Agency, yesterday offering his personal apologies for'any worry and concern'that the data loss may couse me. Thanks. Today I find that £500 has been stolen from my account, the details of which have been'mislaid'. I cannot believe that this is a coincidence. I am So angry and cannot begin to contemplate the implications, if indeed my 'identity'details and thise of my son are now on general release. Something serious must be done about this. Saying sorry is simply not good enough.

Emma

If anything should happen to me or my children who do we blame its ok blamin the underdogs i recived a letter with all our details with HMRC on the front talk about obvious what can just 1 person do im so angry my kids do a better job of keepin things secret and well hidden maybe they should run things!!