A waste of time

Rhoda Klapp

Where is he getting his advice from?

AnnaK

FN: Who is advising him, you once said he had a better team around him than Cameron has. I can't believe that to be the case now.

Boudicca

He's stalling. All the time there's a Committee considering the options, he can blame the system - not the immoral behaviour of some MPs - and try to hold at bay the demands for a General Election. He's hoping to delay long enough to get through to the summer recess in the hope that in the autumn he can argue there is no need for a GE.

It won't work. Labour is going to be trounced in the Euro/local Elections - and Gordon has shown all his worst qualities on this issue. The electorate won't forget Gordon Brown refusing to give the electorate a say in the futures of the MPs who stole from them. Every time Smith, McNulty, Blears and the rest get up to speak the electorates' anger will return.

Cameron has handled the situation far better and looked like the de facto Prime Minister.

AndyLeeds

God's death. Brown really is useless.

Mitch

Gordons answer to any problem, form a committee and let others decide for him. Being PM is about decisions not bloody focus groups and consultation documents.
He has the skeletal structure of a jellyfish.

Neil Turner

I must be honest, I nearly choked on a peanut M&M whilst listening to Brown in the car

I also can't believe how easy a ride the BBC and Sky have given him, considering the points that Fraser lists here

Brown has no idea what people like me are angry about:
- he goes on about the "rules", but the rules themselves are unacceptable
- his NewLabour have trodden democracy into the dust with Quangos, Scottish politicians ruling on English matters, no vote on the EU, settee policy making etc etc

British politics is fundamentally broken

Aaaaagh !

Tiberius

In that photo - has he stepped in something?

Again, very clumsy.

paracelsus

The guy's a complete idiot. He thinks this is still a party political matter, which can be resolved within Westminster. When is he going to realise that this is now bigger than Westminster, and that the only solution is the dissolution of parliament and a general election.

Britain will not be able to move on until this stinking corpse of a government has been removed, and fresh MPs, with a real mandate in the people's eyes, have been installed in Westminster.

He is a dead man walking.

David Ossitt

A nasty. corrupt, incompetent man, who leads a shambolic, corrupt, magnificently incompetent government.

A goverment made up of MP's and Peers who by their actions show that they are as dishonest as most of the MP's and many of the Peers in the upper house.

A substantial prison sentence for those who are guilty is the only way of cleaning up this filth.

Jono

No one better mention the dreaded 'E' word to Crash. He's terrified of it.

But that's only way out of this mess for us: dissolution and, yes, a general ELECTION.

And there we have it: the only thing that can move the country forward, an immediate general election, is the one thing that Brown will not do. An impasse.

Something will have to give - and it will not be us. So, goodbye Gordon. You shan't be missed.

Verity

That David Cameron has failed to elevate himself in people's minds as a PM in waiting tells me everything I need to know. Even given Brown's truly ghoulish performance over the last few days, there is little demand for Cameron.

TrevorsDen

British politics is not fundamentally broken - we have just suffered from 11 years of a useless socialist government. Run by a bunch of disreprobates happy to bully their way to power and to bribe themselves into keeping it.

BTW - the one word not used to show how things have been run these last few years is 'stealth'. We have just seen stealth expenses being exposed. So very new labour, so very Gordon Brown.

Neil Turner

Sorry, you've got me started now and I feel another rant coming on...

We'll know when British politics is working properly when the politicians do what the majority wants, not the other way round

For example, we know that a majority of the British public want to vote on EU membership, an end to political correctness, and the removal of human rights legislation

I think there are many invisible elephants in the room at present, things that career politicians don't even want to talk about.

Expenses are just the tip of the iceberg, and Brown, probably Cameron and Clegg too, are throwing us a few bones in the hope of distracting us away from these fundamental issues

Ken

Good.

The longer the useless poser mangles politics the longer Liebour will be out of office, at this rate around 100 years.

Excellent.

Keep going Scotty may your party of thieves, crooks, liars and freedom-abusers never recover.

What's needed is a party political realignment in which the current Liebour shower are excluded.

country mouse

I think the idea of an outside committee to oversee the parliamentary expenses and salaries is a terrible one. It whittles away some more of parliamentary sovreignty.

A small elected group of MPs with every meeting open to all MPs to attend, or even open to the public, would soon put an end to troughing.

strapworld

Martin's statement did not ban moat cleaning!!!

HJ

MPs are on £63k. Their basic salary is £64,766

Vulture

I think I've cracked it. It has always puzzled me how the Tory party -let alone the British electorate - have let themselves be ruled, bamboozled, thrice beaten and finally fleeced of every penny by a gang of 2nd rate student politicos from a couple of third rate Scottish universities. But the penny has finally just dropped: its because the Bruins (Gorgon and Nick) the McBrides, the Whelans, the Campbells, the Gorbals Micks, the McCartneys and the other toothless, fried-Mars bar munching weirdos do nothing but eat, sleep and s**t politics - which is their case means just destroying their enemies, real and imagined, by foul means or fouler. While the rest of us have been on holiday; down the pub; shagging the girl(or boy) friend; watching TV; enjoying a romantic candlelit dinner for two, walking the fells; reading a book or simply putting in a hard day's graft, this sorry bunch of inadequates in between farting, picking their pimples and sending out for another takeaway, have been plotting, manoevring and calculating. That is their fetid little bubble world and now that is is exploding they have no idea what to do. The trouble is that their poison has leaked out and is killing us all. Thank you. Rant over. But we are really all guilty that we let these no hopers do it to us and our fair country.

Oscar

Not another blinking quango! I have no idea why Westminster can't administer their own expenses and stick to the rules. That's what every other reputable organisation does. Not that C4 News is bovvered - so long as they can get the soundbite of Brown likening the system to a "gentleman's club" repeated often enough. Never mind that it make's no sense, it manages to suggest toffs and Bullingdon; the only message Jon Snow wants to spin. I do hope the public is not hoodwinked into accepting this latest display of smoke, mirrors and prevarication (at the taxpayer's expense). I bet the new 'independent' body ends up costing round about as much as all those flat screen TVs, patios and holiday homes.

griff

Who has politics running through his veins?

William Hague for Speaker.

Moraymint

Words fail me. He really is utterly useless and so out of touch with the guy on the street, it's almost a laugh - if it wasn't so bloody serious. He hasn't got a feckin' clue.

We must now use all possible means to get this bloke off the Bridge absolutely as soon as possible; he is total liability. It sounds hackneyed, but Brown must surely turn out to be Britain's worst (unelected and singularly unwanted) Prime Minister in history. You historians out there: are there any other candidates for this accolade?

Stay calm. Keep going.

Moraymint

Verity ... the problem is, Cameron lacks the raw, killer instinct that is needed here ... it is the only tactic that will remove a politician as strong, ruthless and unprincipled as Brown.

The man is like one of those indestructible man-machines you see in the movies ... like, say, an Orc in Lord of the Rings ... you can stab him, punch him, flail him ... do what you like ... he just keeps standing and fighting.

Brown will never, ever relinquish the power he has over us. He'll see the country on its knees before he even reflects on being out of office.

It may sound crazy, but Brown has to be destroyed if he is to be removed from the office he holds illegitimately. Nothing else will shift him, least of all pitiful little proles like you and me.

Cameron is a pussycat and Brown barely knows he's there ... like an Orc.

Oscar

Good Rant Vulture

CAZ

When are the ENGLISH people going to stand up for themselves, get rid of the UNELECTED scottish Prime Minister and his cabal of thieves.
GENERAL ELECTION NOW.

Martin Denning

Vulture,
Right and very funny.
So it's revolution then?
(I almost said "lead on MacDuff" but perhaps not...)

hadrian

Well, much as I loathe socialism and all associated with it, I have to say ALL poltics is apt to disappoint if we naively put too much trust in it and 'them'. It is the bedrock of Toryism that politics and the State are severely limited in the good they can achieve and horribly positioned to do much damage if unchecked. Right as well as Left- both need chastening from time to time if not constantly!
Our indignation is well founded but if it veers over into self righteous indignation I fear the consequences for civil liberty in this country could be catastrophic. We must temper our anger. Martin's gone- and deservedly so but it rather sticks in the thrapple to hear Gordo mealy mouthed about Martin's 'diligence'!! Good Lord, if that was diligence I'd hate to behold indolence in the Chair!

Jeremy

"And warm words about Michael Martin's "diligence" - a peerage will be next, no doubt."

I really cannot see how admitting this man to the Lords will in any way add to the lustre of the place. And what is a dyed-in-the-wool socialist doing accepting a peerage in the first place? Or is any matter of principle utterly submerged beneath the overriding desire to "get what I'm owed"? The Lords has already become the dumping ground for too many Blair/Brown toadies and political appointees. Had I my way, I would restore the voting rights of the hereditary peers (who do add lustre to the place) and rescind the peerages of the Blair/Brown hacks. That, at least, might be a good first step towards both purging and restoring the Upper House.

Also, this business of "the rules" that Brown keeps droning on about. Behaviour that falls within "the rules" of the House of Commons may not fall within the law of the land - something which, you will recall, applies to the rest of us. That, as you already understand, is the essential point. And the point that has caused such profound offence to people throughout the country. Where "the rules" mean the rules of the House of Commons, and where Brown says he will take action against those who have "broken the rules", well then....who has broken the rules of the House of Commons? Probably only two or three of its members, at most. The flipping, the avoidance of Capital Gains Tax, the avoidance of Council Tax, the claims for a succession of "flipped" properties...all of these things, presumably, fall within "the rules" of the House of Commons. Who, then, is Brown going to take "action" against? Nobody very much, I dare say.

"And does anyone seriously believe it will come down harshly on MPs who, on £63k a year, are already amongst the best paid politicians in the world?"

If MPs enjoy a basic salary (before claims for expenses) of 63k per annum, then many people might conclude that they are already earning at least four times as much as most ordinary people in this country do, and are therefore already handsomely remunerated for what they do, and have no entitlement whatsoever to avoid the taxes that have to be paid by everybody else or to claim for food and other household basics. Moreover, in view of their recent behaviour, it could be argued that what MPs most deserve is a pay cut. Either way, they certainly should not be getting either a pay rise or an Attendance Allowance. And any expenses claims whatsoever, above and beyond their basic salary (which strikes me as being already far more than merely sufficient) should be subject to the most stringent scrutiny.

many voters might simply conclude that their MPs - on their current salaries (with expences) - are simply costing them so much money that they cannot justify to themselves voting for them at all.

SimonR

Verity - enough. You don't speak for the people.
It is only when there is a plebiscite that we will know what the people think.
Your vote will count for exactly ONE.
You may be right about DC, but you don't speak for me or the people

Neil Turner

Did anyone apart from me hear Adam Boulton accuse Cameron of being "idiotic" in an interview around 7pm this evening ?

The media, in particular Sky, BBC and Ch 4 have much to answer for over GB politics. They give New Labour an easy ride, whilst beating up or ignoring the opposition

Or am I just paranoid ?

Is this the long arm of Murdoch ?

Dirty Euro

Vulture
"While the rest of us have been on holiday; down the pub; shagging the girl(or boy) friend; watching TV; enjoying a romantic candlelit dinner for two, walking the fells;"
If you can do all that at the same time. You deserve a medal.

Chris

Crashing Bore - you're in serious danger of becoming a Verity.

Jenny

Verity - speak for yourself, as usual

Your needle appears to be stuck, again.

Maybe you should change the record?

TGF UKIP

But what is the Specccie's Action Man, Dave, going to do about Grand Inquisitor McLoughlin and his sidekick Burt?

Dave being Dave and "action" never being action, precisly nowt, no doubt.

Colin

A peerage for Martin ?

For the love of God, no ! Please...

Colin

Can someone please ensure that über trough monster, George "horses ar*e" foulkes gets as much air time as possible.

Every time this odious creep appears on TV, another nail is hammered into the coffin of the labour party in general, and the corrupt scotia nostra in particular.

Liam Grealish

How much are you on to write this trifle Fraser? 63K is a good wage but nothing exceptional.

Kevyn Bodman

At the Prime Minister's press conference it was Jon Snow who produced the most pointed, aggressive and difficult question for Brown.
Maybe commenters on these pages didn't hear it because it didn't fit in with their expectations.

Verity

Hmmmm, Vulcan ... I normally support you, but the fried Mars Bars is northern English, not Scottish.

Re Chris and and Jenny ... Eeeeeek! Au secours! I'm being attacked by socialist and Cameron trolls at the same time! (I'm sure they know each other and will all go out for a small glass of sweet sherry or an alcopop later.)

Country Mouse - bravo!

Alfred T Mahan

Jeremy - even MacGord couldn't be stupid enough to give Martin a peerage. There really would be rioting on the streets.

Could he?

cuffleyburgers

The idea of ex-Speaker Martin being comforted with a peeerage sums up Labours' performance.

Incompetence, greed and spitefulness followed by stupidity, stubborn refusal to face facts and refusal to take the honourable course of action honour - rewarded by a devalued honour in a formerly great and well functioning institution brought to its knees by the same vindictiveness and incompetence seen previously.

Altogther a telling, and tragic, cameo.

A parable of modern Britain.

Probably just as well they have dumped the "Great"

Vulture - couldn't have put it better myself

want my country back

....meanwhile,folks!
Two new ideas are blossoming to
descimate our freedom;
1)Convert an out building or make adjustments indoors,for an elderly family member,or a place to chill out away from the hub of
noisy family moments,and you will be charged an additional Council Tax.
2)They think it would be sensible for us all to paint our homes white. lt will deflect heat from impending heat waves,caused by climate chaos.
WHY ARE THOSE DAMNED SNOUTS GOING OFF ON THEIR TAX PAYER ENHANCED HOLIDAYS,WHEN THE COUNTRY IS ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE,DUE TO THEIR ACTIONS?.
ELECTION NOW!!!!!!!

mac

This morning's 'Today' gave plenty of prominence to reporting the Labour benches cheering Martin last night, and to Spink's fawning. Typical BBC, but clearly the process of historical revision is under way - Martin the martyr, the man of honour who nobly resigned, brought down by the gentleman's club.

Pathetic!

Howard

I have to say if MPs can't police their own expenses then we are truly up the creek in this country.

Just make them publish their claims with receipts - or give them to newspapers every year. Those who don't do the right thing will soon be ousted - no need for expensive audit body!

No wonder the public sector is so expensive!

Chris lancashire

On a point of order Verity, fried Mars bars are exclusively Hibernian fare - definitely NOT northern England.

Rhoda Klapp

It's not the 63k, it's the totally outrageous pension arrangements, available to no-one else.

john miller

In 10 years time Coffee Housers will have invented a whole new language in the comments pages.

The other day AndyLeeds came up with "bafoon", which was strangely descriptive and now we have TrevorsDen with "disreprobate", which sounds much worse than a mere reprobate.

These new words may never make it into the OED, but it does show what a creative lot CHers are.

Rhoda Klapp

Oh, and did I forget to mention I wanna see heads rolling, and I wanna see it now!