So much for the idea that Mohammed Siddique Khan was radicalised by Afghanistan or Iraq

JohnAnt

Terrifying that MI5 have only enough resources to track a small proportion of the terrorist suspects they identify.
The Beeb, natch, wants to inflate the size of MI5.
But there is an obvious alternative, which is to reduce the number of suspects by having fewer of them in the country to start with.

Satanic Versifier

Er, no. It's not a difference with "the West". You are playing the clash of civilisations game here.

It's a difference with the ideas of the enlightenment, which are universal and no more the property of "the west" than the idea that the world is a flattened spheroid.

The difference is an important one - because by saying this is about "the west" you are legitimitising the jihadi lie of Muslim particularism.

Never forget the jihadis kill more Muslims than "the west" ever will.

Austin Barry

Spit it out James: what motivated him to kill people is that he was an Islamist, we are infidels who must submit to Islam, and the UK is the Dar al-Harb, the house of war, until it is subsumed by the Dar al-Islam, the house of Islam. I could submit to Islam - I look good in a beard and Mrs Barry's appearance would be greatly enhanced by a burqua - but I'm having difficulty with the mandatory circumcision. You know Islamists, give them an inch....

Andy Leeds

Time we took a very strong interest in what is being preached and taught in Mosques throughout our land. The Government needs to stop burying its head in the sand and start to take on Islamic extremism. They wont of course. . .

Jenny

Indeed, we have been here before with the case of Dhiren Barot, exposed in The Spectator by Melanie Phillips:

www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=470

After the details of the Dhiren Barot case became public, the only other place where I saw the point made that terrorists were not motivated by Iraq and 9/11 was a Leader column in The Telegraph.

Elsewhere, nothing. Zilch. It is incomprehensible that people who follow terrorism were unaware of the Barot case and yet so many journalists failed to point up this fact. It didn't suit their ends, did it?

I have lost count how many journalists have told us the 7/7 bombers were motivated by Iraq.

Expect some Brian Deer-type scrubbings of web pages and so on as people go through their archives to try to expunge their sanctimony.

There's a job for a summer work experiencer in your office. Get researching how many journalists have told us the 7/7 bombers were 'motivated by Iraq' - there are heaps of them.

It would make a nice presentation with this little fact appended underneath a selection of cuttings.

As if taqiyya wasn't hard enough to deal with, we also have Fleet Street's de facto taqiyya in endlessly repeating this demonstrable untruth.

James Forsyth

Good point about my lazy use of the term West. Have altered accordingly. Thanks, James

Alf Tupper

Er no, Satanic Versifier, it's not a game it's actually happening, and a little on the serious side and it's called a clash of civilisations because there are two civilisations.....and they're clashing. Like it says on the tin. Easy to take on board once you stop kidding yourself.

And is that supposed to make everything right: the fact that jihadis kill muslims? Is that some kind of pass into acceptability? I don't think so.

JW

Even Siddique Khan's own final testament video claims that Kashmir was the issue, but this doesn't fit with the progressive narrative so is simply ignored

Florence Nightingle

Everyone knows that the Islamists are really nice peaceful guys who love this country and all the benefits it stands for.This is all a pack of lies made up by those nasty BNP types!

Verity

Andy Leeds, yes, indeed. And no need to capitalise the word 'mosques'.

Alf Tupper - there are not two "civilisations". There is one. And another one lurking outside the tent of Western civilisation.

Time we required "imams" to have academic qualifications and a four-year degree and apply through proper means for their imanship. At the moment, it's any old claw-fisted lag with a daft bee in his keffiyah. They have no academic qualifications in their own belief system.

That's why they preach, without fear, against homosexuals. As that TV programme caught.

It's why they preach control of women. Because the mosque is somehow a 'holy' place and women, for some reason, can't pray in one. Oh, really? How did that happen?

I don't know whether they are lying or speaking in genuine ignorance when they tell women that their prophet ordered them to dress up in bin liners. The fact is, according to the Q'ran, which many imans have not read because they can't read Arabic, Mohammed never got involved in fashion statements. Nothing prescriptive, like, "Hijabs are being worn two inches shorter this year, and unless yours is lilac, your fashion conscious husband won't let you out of the house!"

He just said women should dress modestly, and he also applied the same direction to men.

A totally unexceptional comment in a religious leader.

I'm sick of these unqualified, primitive ignoramuses being elevated to "imam" in our country and incident-prone individuals like Inyat Bunglawala being accorded a voice.

Fred

Is MI5/Police closely monitoring ALL outward bound courses which involve non-white people? No wonder they claim to be short of staff. No wonder Muslims believe that Blair and Brown are simply anti-Muslim.

Doug

Utter rot. Everyone read the report for yourself and get a true picture. "under surveillance in January 2001" - NO, he was not. If you read the report it specifically defines what "under surveillance" means and this does not qualify. There were 39 others pictured at this event, the significant majority unidentified at the time and as far as we know the significant majority did not and have not conducted any form of terrorist activity.

The report also says "A person may appear completely innocent or merely on the fringes of an extremist network when they are first investigated, but just a short time later they may have adopted a more radicalised and extremist ideology and may have become involved in plots to attack the UK." There is simply no evidence to suggest Khan is radicalised in '01 to the extent he so clearly was in '04 and '05 as suggested by the evidence and with hindsight. There were also thousands of people that the main CREVICE suspects came in to contact with, the vast majority of who have no terrorist intentions. Even the monitored conversations between UDM E (Khan) and Khyam do not in any way hint about the events of 7/7 or any form of terrorist action in the UK for that matter. In fact there was one comment noting the fact that Madrid bombings had directly led to a change in government. Tanweer's videotape statements clearly mention Iraq as a motivation and Khan's makes similarly obvious implications. Indeed MI5 analysts concludes: “Though they have a range of aspirations and ‘causes’, Iraq is a dominant issue for a range of extremist groups and individuals in the UK and Europe.”

Michael

What we need is a common sense approach. We know that most of these people come from half a dozen countries. Lets stop importing them.

TrevorsDen

st issue of Self appointed imams is a good point. Its like dealing with a host of Ian Paisleys.

You may be right about the dates etc. But there is no clear evidence that he was interested in bombing anyone before 911 or Iraq or Afghanistan. He may have been 'militant' but not murderous. The main point is the clear insidious effort to radicalise young thick and impressionable muslims.

Yorkshireman

Ed Hussain was radicalised in 1995 (read his book the Islamist)

Verity

The word "Islamist", btw, has been perverted and dragooned into a new meaning by the thought fascist Left. Until the advent of ignorant, fascist, controlling NuLabour, an Islamist used to just be a scholar with an interest in Islam. NuLabour, nuspeak.

I am still baffled that so many millions did not see the fascist juggernaut heaving into view when they voted for Tony Blair.

Bill Corr

John-Ant has it right!

So who will dare to talk about mass deportation aloud?

Verity

Bill Corr. No one would dare. There is no free speech in Britain. Only pre-approved speech.

David Lindsay

"Shiraz Maher, a senior research fellow at Policy Exchange"

Is that the Policy Exchange exposed on Newsnight as nothing but a forgers' den, and whose Research Director's arrogant, petulant outburst was one of the funniest things on television for a very long time?

Or is it the Policy Exchange that proposed relocating the North of England to the South?

Or is it the Policy Exchange wholly controlled by Michael "Flipper" Gove?

Maurice Cousins

And if you look at the date from the video still, George Bush was only one week in to his first term in office. Perhaps Khan didn't like Bush's message of delivering "justice and opportunity."