CoffeeHousers' Wall, 1 June - 7 June

Colin

We should forget all the speculation of when and if Brown will voluntarily step down - he won't.

I'm now convinced that if we are to avoid 12 more months of this nonsense, the people need to take action.

If millions of us were to take to the streets, in quiet, peaceful but powerful protest, something would have to give, they'd have to listen to us, wouldn't they?

Alexandra

As people still discuss (yes, I know, what’s to discuss?) whether there is a need to cut state spending, I just thought I’d mention this, because although few people will be aware of it (and indeed the scale of it), I have been hearing horror stories about this for years when speaking to people in local and national government.

According to the Guardianistas, anyone who objects to the huge amounts of money being thrown at council house tenants and the recent rise in council house building is ‘heartless’, right? Well, here’s where all that taxpayers’ lolly goes (by the way, this is from a magazine that has John Cruddas MP as a columnist):

“Illegal lettings cases rocket”

29/05/2009 By Beena Nadeem

“Growing numbers of social housing tenants [in the real world we call these council house tenants] are letting their properties out unlawfully to turn a profit, lawyers have claimed.

“The problem is so bad that in some instances housing associations and solicitors are turning to inquiry agents - regulated private investigators - to catch clients out by tapping into personal records not available to the public.

“Law firm Lewis Silkin is preparing to run a large-scale test case on an estate where a social landlord believes up to 85 per cent of its 90 homes are being illegally sub-let.”

You can read the rest here:

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/story.aspx?storycode=6504794

We’re all paying for council house tenants (whose subsidy means they either get all the rent paid for by housing benefit or if they do pay a rent, it’s the rent of a peppercorn) to turn a fat profit themselves. They’re on welfare to make a profit. And my, what profit. The story spells out some of the sums involved:

“’Rent is usually £100 a week and we saw an advert for one [tenant] leasing a property for £350 [a week] - so they’re making £250 profit. If they’ re in receipt of housing benefit, that’s £350 a week profit,’ Mr Hayes said.

“Angela Edge, a solicitor at Perrins, said her firm had ‘definitely’ seen more cases. She cited one example in Raynham, which the firm had recently secured a conviction on, involving a tenant leasing a social property worth £80 rent a week for £600 a week.”

I have known of this for many years from people I know and whenever I asked them why I never seem to read about it or see court cases about it in the paper, I was told that it was too much of a hot potato for town halls and Whitehall to get serious about. What town hall Trotskyite wants to highlight how much the working public are being diddled this way?

Politically it’s just not worth their letting the public know the extent to which we are all being fiddled. I mean, how can you stand up and talk drivel about ‘child poverty’ and suchlike on sink estates when up to 85% of council house tenants on some estates are raking in cash from scams like this?

You will note that what has sparked the writer’s story is that it is only because the level of fraud is so bad (up to 85% in one area) that the ‘social landlord’ (don’t you love the Orwellian word ‘social’, council reminds everyone that they pay for this via their taxes) has been forced to carry out an investigation.

I am told informally that councils and housing associations generally prefer to turn a blind eye to all this even when they know it’s going on, which of course makes everyone on the estate want to join in. Apparently they only do something about it once it’s reached epic proportions.

Look at the comments section, too. That website is for people who work or have an involvement in council housing and up comes the first comment:

“ILAG | Thu, 28 May 2009 23:00 GMT”
“I am sure that 75%-85% subletting is common in many places when property is in demand. I am aware of a Bulgarian national being housed in an expensive prime Central London location by a very well known RSL and subletting the flat almost immediately for a tidy profit. The RSL couldn't care less. The entire "needs" based social housing allocation system is rotten to the core and needs to be scrapped in order to give honest working folk a fair chance of getting housing in a decent area without resorting to buying.”

Whad I tell ya?

Publius

I note that the mainstream parties and the tame commentariat are lining up to interpret a vote for UKIP as a protest against sleaze, rather than a protest against the EU.

So I just want to say, again, that I intend to vote UKIP to send a clear message to Mr Cameron and others that I do not want this EU superstate.

Vulture

Britain is the most apathetic country under the sun. This can be an advantage: by and large people don't panic. In June 1940, on any rational reading, the war had been lost. Only the Brits refused to admit it. Today, however, such apathy is positively harmful, and only aids the denizens of the Downing St Bunker. I have seen several posts on various sites asking people to come to Downing St or Parliament Sq at such and such a time: no response. It would take a massively organised demo on the lines of the pro-Hunting or anti-Iraq war marches to do it, but no-one seems to have done that. Yet. Why don't the Tories do it if they are serious about wanting a GE?

Aidan

Alexandra, this is not a new problem by any means. When I lived in Islington 15 years ago I regularly canvassed the council estates. It was rare indeed that the person named on the electoral register actually occupied the house or flat. Typically I would knock on the door and ask to speak to Mr or Mrs X. The person answering the door would look completely blank for a few seconds until the penny dropped and then stammer something about Mr X being out. Interestingly the telephone book had the names of the real occupants of the properties.
I raised this with the District Auditor but he didn't investigate.

Michael Booth

Vulture, I think the Tories don't want to do what you suggest because they don't actually like the idea of people taking to the streets demanding change. Mind you, I don't understand why the Campaign for Modern Liberty lot don't set too and organise protest marches up and down the country...I'd certainly join one.

Stephen.

The expenses row has opened up a can of worms which will have devastating effects upon the publics trust and overall perception of politicians for years to come.
I for one have decided to use the only effective weapon i have against the big three and have already cast my vote (by post) for the Euro elections.
I have decided votr for a party which promises to reform Europe, eradicate the waste and make all MEP's accountable to the voter by restoring democracy.
The same party which is running nearly 500 candidates accross Europe (only by having voices in great numbers will the EU listen)will force a referendum on the Lisbon treaty and clean up European Poitics for good.
That party is LIBERTAS of course I hear you all saying.

Stephen.

Michael Booth

Anyone got any updates on
1) private prosecutions against Jacqui Smith - how far have things gone?
2)Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper's allowance claims - are they getting off Scot free (literally)?

Moraymint

Like Colin, I really am wondering what it will take for democracy to be re-asserted in this country? This whole situation seems to be moving from drama to crisis to nightmare.

With hindsight (wonderful thing), we've been on the receiving end of a sinister, 12-year transition from a pretty reasonable socio-economic environment in the UK to a situation which has all the hallmarks of life in the old USSR.

The Blair/Brown/Balls masterplan now sees us ordinary folk, to all intents and purposes, supressed: there's no other word for it.

We've had thousands of laws passed to criminalise every corner of our lives; we are watched day and night; we are groaning under the stifling intrusions, burdens and costs of the state; we're all but bankrupt; we're told that a general election is unnecessary and that Gordon Brown has moved from saving the global banking system to saving the world and will now be saving our national democracy (using his National Council for Democratic Renewal - how sinister is that?). Meantime, our job as citizens/taxpayers/voters is to shut up, keep well clear and let Brown's state machine roll on, flattening everything in its path. Who needs an election when you've got a National Council for Democratic Renewal? If that doesn't sound like life in the USSR, then I'm a banana.

Gordon Brown has his jackboot on the nation's neck and he ain't going to take it off for anybody. The opposition parties are little short of pathetic and haven't a clue how to challenge Brown, still less unseat him. Moreover, no political party seems to have a simple philosophy to re-establish the British people's long-cherished and hard-earned liberties. Talk about dire.

Whilst I'm not advocating taking to the streets, it's hard to see how we miserable plebs can get ourselves out of the looming socio-economic catastrophe bestowed upon us by a decade of socialism-by-stealth, whilst Gordon Brown dicates all that he surveys.

How on earth did it get to this? We've been had, and the sooner there is an uprising of sorts against this dictatorial regime, the better.

Sally Chatterjee

I heard Brown has been putting in calls to ask about Susan Boyle. "I hope Susan Boyle is okay because she is a really, really nice person", he said on GMTV.

Funny how he's quick to enquire about a tired TV singer yet didn't call the families of the soldiers killed in Afghanistan over the weekend.

Anton

When's Theresa May going to answer the questions?
...I didn't miss it did I?

Pete Hoskin

Anton: we should be hearing back today. Keep an eye out.

Verity

You've answered your own question, Vulture. The government dismissed the pro-hunting demonstration. It had no effect. The voice of the people means diddly to dictators.

As long as this lot of thugs is occupying our government, peaceful demonstrations mean nothing.

Michael Booth - Good question. And any word on the private, PERSONAL libel case against Jaqui Jackboots by that American radio commentator she inexplicably banned from Britain? (Inexplicably because he has expressed no interest in coming to this country. I am going to publicly ban Jackboots from entering my property. "Sleazebags banned, specifically the British Home Secretary."

Paul Hughes

I didn't watch this show but it proved to avoid gleaning some knowledge of the situation from the excessive media coverage.

She walked onto the stage and people sniggered, hiding their mealy mouthed prejudice behind their hands. "Why?" asked the people, in collective disbelief. "Why does this frump waste our time?"
She sang and people were amazed. "Wow, she may be overweight and badly dressed. She doesn't fit our self-righteous definition of talent but she can certainly sing.
And so they paraded her through the public squares of the media, from front page to news bulletin. "Here," cried the journalists. "Have a look at this! A plain old maid with a voice. Ha! She hasn't even been kissed."
She was feted and set up as the next big thing, the modern equivalent of a dancing bear, a bearded lady, an anti-celeb celeb. She was bound to win. Who could resist the charms of a winner we could both look down upon and applaud.
She didn't win. She was sacrificed at the altar of skin-deep beauty and came second. Not bad for an old boot.
So then she became the object of pity. The woman with learning difficulties, the woman with bad hair who was just a little unstable. Jade Goody had died, we needed a new victim. Now we have her and she won't be allowed to sink back into obscurity until the public has seen her paraded, once more, through the streets as the "also-ran." Beauty lasts longer than novelty and so she will be drained of any hope of self respect and dignity. Her friends and family will sell their stories. The world will gawp and gasp and revel in their emphathy and pity. Then they will turn away and move on. Behind them, watching the crowds disperse, she will sit and wonder. She will sit and wonder what she did to blow her chances of fame and fortune, her chance at the big time. She was so close, she will conclude. She blew it. Poor soul. She never had a chance.

Derek

I am encouraged to see that some people are finally talking about taking to the streets to call in effect for the dissolution of parliament. I have been sitting here in Shanghai for the last 10 days boggling at the failure of anyone to organize popular demonstrations. When concrete leadership is required from the political and chattering classes, they can't provide it. What does that tell us? Colin, Vulture and Michael Booth are on the right track.

Wily Trout

About a million people took to the streets against the Iraq War. The government, or should that be the sofa clique, didn't take any notice. Remember the Poll Tax Riots? And all the references to 'Thatcher's Police State'? There must be something in the water. Perhaps a bit more unemployment will change things.

Paul B

I watched the show Paul, I rather enjoyed. SuBo lost it,not because she blew it,but because quite simply, Diversity (the winners) were better. The British public made the correct choice imo. Diversity were imaginative, humorous and original. Good luck to them.

Verity

Moraymint writes: "How on earth did it get to this? We've been had, and the sooner there is an uprising of sorts against this dictatorial regime, the better."

The people got what they voted for. An insane, self-adoring, power-crazed megalomaniac. And when he resigned, another one with all the same qualities and a few mad touches of his own slithered into place.

For what's it's worth, I'm all for a military coup, and I'm also up for what The Devil's Kitchen refers to as "air tap-dancing" from lamp posts.

David Ossitt

Colin.

They will not listen.

oldtimer

A reality check.

Over the weekend I was a guest at a wedding (in deepest Wales) and chatted away to a young man (c30 years old, about to become a father who lived near Witney in Cameron`s constituency). He was only dimly aware of the MPs` expenses scandal (he only learned about it last Friday - he didn`t read newspapers). I then asked him if he was aware on the £1 trillion extra national debt coming at us like an express train. He gave me a blank look. I sighed and changed the subject.

Lee Jakeman

Devolution has short-changed England. We have separate parliaments for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but none for England. As a nation, England no longer officially exists - it is just a "collection of regions". I want any constitutional reform to address this democratic deficit. I want somebody out there who speaks for England - not Scottish, Welsh and Irish MP's speaking for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, with "British" MP's speaking for England, which is deemed to be indisguishable from "Britain". I'm English. I want a voice.

Max Kaye

I'm with Publius: vote UKIP (except in Dan Hannan's region) to ensure that Cameron and Co. play a straight bat on the promised Lisbon Treaty referendum.

Paul B

I would like mention the missing French Airliner and send my regards to all the families involved.

God knows how this happened, but having a wee amount of knowledge of the workings of modern, its fair to say the do not normally drop straight off a radar screen without any prior knowledge indication, especially one take off (and landing) have been safely completed. I fear (& suspect) the worst.

Hysteria

@ oldtimer - your anecdote confirms what I fear (and is the explanation for Verity, Moraymint et al) - us anoraks (?) get close to the issue and probably even understand some of it - but we are a tiny proportion of the population.

That said - the turn-out and results will be interesting clues this week. I hope for an increased turnout more than anything else, as a demonstration that the population is becoming more politically aware.

Moraymint

oldtimer and Hysteria ... yes, that's my experience too. But it's worse. Quite often I will be in conversation with PLUs (that's People Like Us for those unfamiliar with the term), only to discover said PLUs are about as clueless as oldtimer's man in deepest Wales.

The extent of economic and political ignorance in this country is staggering (albeit we're well versed in Britain's Got Talent); our society will pay dearly for its ignorance over the coming years, and much sooner than many (most) people realise.

Colin

How many people, in how many cities, towns and villages in the UK, do coffee housers think it will take before they finally sit up, take notice and acquiesce?

What would happen if we all got out, into our nearest public space and just stood there, like the people of eastern Europe and waited?

THX1138

Paul B I know it's terrible. I'm flying to NYC on Friday morning I know it's irrational but you can't help thinking about the horrors of a plane crash.

egh

I'm so glad that some coffeehousers are finally calling for action - both to give the politicians notice that they must not succeed in their final destruction of our country, and to raise awareness among the 'ostriches.' I also have encountered the ignorant and brainwashed young; and the PLUs!

Quite how a previously sophisticated, politically aware nation turned blind, deaf, and dumb, is part of the problem. However, if we are ever to turn the tide, the solution is surely to act now. I will support, and where possible join in, every form of peaceful demonstration.

Blogging itself is a start - I see it as the modern version of pamphleteering. But we must turn it to action (and before they shut down the Blogosphere - smash the presses, as it were!)

btw: I believe that Devolution is part of the destruction - it's based in the old euro weapon of 'Divide and Conquer' - and it incites long-standing ignorance and hatreds to help us islanders turn against each other so as to destroy ourselves. Those indigenes in England are in the part of the islands that euros have historically trampled over, because access is near and easy. Geographical factors have, of course, traditionally helped the Scots, Welsh, and Irish; however, modern communication renders those barriers less formidable - and all traditions are in the same jeopardy. And I've talked to older Scots, for example, and know many are troubled that their young people are being deprived of their heritage. So some people know it's happening; they just don't know how to fight it.

THX1138

Aff T

For you squirrel recipes:

Spiced squirrel- Yummy!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/recipes/article3376363.ece

John Henderson

Following Adam Boultons interview with Brown on Sky. It takes very little thought to cast one's thoughts back to pre 2004 and Brown's thirst for power. It is clear that he and Balls came up with the scheme for flipping and a change to the expenses rule in 2004. This undoubtedly provided huge support and popularity, from MPs (making money within the new rules)for Brown's push for power against Tony Blair. The whole of this expenses affair can be laid at the door of Browns cabal. They appealed to the most mendacious elements of cabinet and backbench colleagues on the Labour party.His anger at Boulton's initial questionning gives one the impression of yst annother 'plausible deniability'. In my view if this claim can be supported then it amounts to a virtual criminal conspiracy to defraud the taxpayer. It is hardly surprising that the police have not alrady been involved as they are being encouraged to look at individual claims. (not I may add by the Labour Party). This whole affair stinks to high heaven and calls into question the whole of the political class as well as the government of the day. It may only take pressure on one high profile casuality (Hoon or Darling)to be criminally investigated for defrauding the taxpayer to provide the beginnings of a trail of the worst corruption to come to light in British History. I will not hold my breath however, too many vested interests ensure a resounding silence in the face of the Bristish electorate.

Alexandra

Michael Booth, June 1st, 2009 12:39pm:

Updates on private prosecutions will appear here. They will have to instruct solicitors and counsel first before we hear anything - unless Plod short circuits this by doing what Plod should have done ages ago (too busy chasing non-existent 'hate' crimes no doubt.

I wonder if a private prosecution would be better than having the CPS as solicitors and Treasury counsel prosecuting in the Old Bailey because although there is no suggestion the Establishment will close ranks, all faith in it has vanished. This is the level of damage caused by this Parliament - we are suspicious of everything.

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/

Vulture

Someone was repeatedly on this thread last week hymning the joys of Caroline Flint (- 'a right little cracker' I think was the phrase). Well, I watched her on QT, and I agree that, in a dim light, and given the quality of competition in the Liebour party, she is not unattractive. What stuck me, however, was another thing about her. It's something she shares with all her colleagues in this doomed Govt: her blank arrogance when faced with criticism or contradiction. She made no attempt to actually answer audience members who went for her, but just kept ploughing on, her pouty face sending the message: 'I'm right; you're wrong and even if I'm not there's bugger all you can do abt it'. For me, any frisson of attractiveness about her disappeared at this point, and she was revealed as being as morally plug ugly as the rest of that stinkingly corrupt crew she sits with in Cabinet. But not, hopefully, for much longer.

Steve.W

Oldtimer – June 1st -

Your 30yr old man at the wedding who hailed from Witney in Cameronshire is typical, in fact normal. There is the joke about the anti-EU campaigner who went door-stepping for UKIP. “What do you think of the UK's membership of the EU” he asked one resident, “I didn't know we were in” came the reply. Ordinary folk don't 'do' politics and are proud of it.

And some of you want an anti-Nulabour demonstration in London? Well you will have to pay people to get there. There is no interest, understanding or feeling for politics in the UK.

egh

Steven W - so you rule out the possibility that the ordinary Briton has a sense of irony? And there, I thought it was one of the main attributes of the culture!

Personally, I'd give your Witney-person the benefit of the doubt: we're not 'in' the euSSR as far as the people are concerned - we never gave our permission.

As far as UKIP's concerned, we don't all want to talk politics with them, any more than with what we perceive as the rest of the crooks.

Alf Tupper C.R.O.F.

THX.

Mmm Yessiree, Ah jes luurv dem lil critters. Ah like em evn bedrn ah like trucks an thad is sayin sumthin round these parts.

Jeremy

I don't like Dave's new haircut very much. I think the side parting makes him look banal. I much preferred his previous style - it had more dash and verve to it.

Raffles

Blears has gone. Haha, its alll crumbling. According to the BBC "she is not exactly a Geoffrey Howe figure". No sh1t Sherlock!

THX1138

Who won the Labour song competition ?

Alf T

Prince of Wales calls for grey squirrels to be killed by landowners

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6426717.ece

Sterence

Looking at the politics betting markets on Betfair I see that both UKIP and the LibDems are now odds-on (UKIP 2-1 on at least) to beat Labour in the Euro elections. 4th place for Labour - will this finally prise Brown out of No. 10? No, I don't think so either.

Alf Tupper C.R.O.F.

T.

What do I win?

Kevyn Bodman

Roger Federer:
Is there any tennis fan out there who is not delighted that he has won the French Open?
14 Grand Slam titles, including a full set.

Indisputably, now, the greatest male tennis player ever.

A great champion in all respects.

Alf Tupper

Kevyn.

It's simpler than that.

Is there any tennis fan out there?

Paul B

I like a game of tennis, and yes, well done Federer. I would not go so far as to say the greatest player of all time, as I don`t belive its possible to compare champions of today with champions of yester year. Its not comparing like with like. That said, he is the finest player of his generation by a distance and a charming and modest man. Tennis as a sport is blessed to have him.

However to contradict myself- Alfie Tupper was/is the greatest runner ever. Wizard.