Facing Brown's spending deceptions

JohnAnt

But as you say, Fraser, the Tories refuse to nail Brown on this - just as they unaccountably failed to nail him on the consequences of the abolition of the 10% tax rate. Are the Tories innumerate or just inarticulate? The ratings agencies are at the door, counting up government debt, and the Tories need to shout that it's vitally important...

Travis Bickle

Fraser, the joke is that his public standing might actually go up if he admitted he was making spending cuts, yet he still doesn't get it.

Fearless Frank

I heard this. Funny thing, he kept saying how how he would increase spending, without saying where the money would come from. And of course you didn't get the chance to ask him.
And in 'answering' the next person's question, didn't he mention the importance of bringing down budget deficits - which I take it (I'm not an economist) means paying off debt.

Hmm, this really doesn't add up...

Tiberius

Fraser, this is why it is right to praise George Osborne and David Cameron for getting under the skin of the anti-christ. Not many can.

He is barely fit to be called human, such is his lack of the basic traits.

Amanda

Well done Fraser, keep going just think how Heather Brooks must have felt at times - but she won in the end. So will you.

PS. His body language whilst you were talking was a picture.

Paul

Gordon Brown got where he is by lying. People are awake to it by degrees, but someone does need to yell "liar" at him so that we don't forget, so we don't let him get away with it. Well done for your question.

bodo

Nice try Fraser, you certainly rattled him more than any other journo. Hopefully these Labour cuts will enter the narrative.

Alistair

I heard your exchange with Brown on Five Live when driving home from work. His answers made me cringe and I was delighted when you shouted over his Brownies and to show him up for the liar that he is.

Ian W

Unfortunately nobody in the mainstream media is interested in whether Brown lies about his budget. They are only interested in "personalities" and "narratives".

FonyBlair

Good work Fraser. Keep winding him up...he looks utterly despondent and it provides great entertainment to the public seeing his self delusion!!

mckenzie

Well done Fraser. Sometimes I wonder where you are coming from, but you have deserved the benefit of any doubt I may have in the future. If it takes a bit of 'off beam' reporting then go for it.

jaydeeaitch

I recall an article by Portillo in the ST a long time ago, so no link. He stated that before Brown's time at the Treasury, the tradition was that the Chancellor gave a copy of the budget to the opposition the day before delivery, so a reasonable debate could be had.

Brown stopped that.

Result: headlines in favour of Brown, no realistic chance for the opposition to make a reasoned response.

The outcome: stealth taxes, 20% basic rate versus abolition of 10% rate and a load more.

The conclusion: Brown cares for his headline tomorrow more than he cares for any of the people in this country.

And yes I know we all know that, it just your piece on his suppression of reality spurred me to write this, Fraser. Keep attacking him whenever you have the chance, and thanks for doing it.

TrevorsDen

These are points that should continue to be raised - but your fellow journalists will not bring it up when they get a face to face, the one time when you can do follow ups.

You do speak to each other don't you? So why cannot the questions be put and an answer be insisted on?

if you do not - if they do not they are failing in their duty.

But then do journalists understand the concept of Duty? Why would not the journalist after you not insist you get the mike back??

On the end browns 'narrative' is a barefaced lie - so can it possibly continue to be hidden??

MK

Your mistake was expecting a response.

He long ago started to believe his own fantasy.

Today reminded me of the press conferences with G.W. Bush in too many ways.

Mrs B

Well done Fraser. Your intervention was brilliant. Having read your blog I knew exactly what you were asking Brown and I thought at the time "why arn't other journalists picking up on this important point?" You really rattled Brown - it was great to watch. He is such a liar. I don't know how he gets away with it. Thanks Fraser.

disgusted

Great question. Well done. He is incredibly rude.

Anand

Does parliamentary Privilege apply outside the chambers of the house of commons?

Brown is clearly lying to the public, ON THE RECORD lies.

I am astounded the media have not picked up on this. For god sake lets hope come election time at least the right-centre press flag his lies up on the front page.

hadrian

Well done, Fraser!
It's about time indeed we got some old-fashioned honesty out of these guys. Let's hope he's got a lot more squirmimg to do with this if he survives. And as for the Tories fearful of cuts being publicised it's utterly pathetic. We all know that short of an absolute economic miracle we're going to have to face these hard choices and some of us'd appreciate just a little candid detail. After all, if the Tories were doing their jobs properly Broon's terrible cuts secret would be exposed as much as their own presented- only at least they'd be able to make a virtue of it whilst without the pretence of spending increases Broon is revealed as the one actually with 'no policies' save sleekitness. The man's a menace.

Carly

Heroic effort by you Fraser, lets hope fellow journalist follow your example.......

disgusted

You did great.

Stan, UK

Fraser, you're now a legend in your own lifetime. If only the likes of Nick Robinson would call Brown out like you did, instead of treating us voters like thickos.

Prodicus

Mrs Prodicus wishes me to inform you that she came over quite faint with gratitude when you made your stand today. In the next instant, she declared that she was leaving me and was off to ask you whether she could have your babies. Of course, I told her to cut it out and get back in the kitchen. But fair play to the woman, one could see her point. I worry, sometimes...

steve

Fraser, thanks for doing such a good job...

Gary Williams

Your question was not lost on all of us. Indeed, it was the only question worth hearing. It was unfortunate that its effectiveness was compromised by your position at the back of the room. It has been painfully obvious for many years that Gordon Brown is a shameless liar. Anyone who heard him, ten years ago, aggressively claim for himself all the credit for Brtian's economic health at the time - whilst completely ignoring that the entire industrialised world was also enjoying the very same interlude of low inflation, low interest rates, high growth and high employment - will have been aware at least since then of the man's estrangement from the truth.

David

Well done, Fraser, for confronting Brown like that. What it needs is for a broadsheet or the Mail to follow up on his blatant lie.

RobC

Thus spake a son of the manse obnoxious,deceitful,cynical political dinosaur - If thats Brown's idea of presbyterian integrity and honesty his father is probably turning over in his grave.

Richard Lewis

I listened to Brown's press conference on the radio earlier today.
Brown sounded unhinged.
Are we safe with him still in charge ?

Gawain

Stop beating yourself up. It takes small strokes of the oars to get a boat moving. If it's a heavy one it may even seem at the start that you're getting nowhere but, cumulatively the momentum builds. The message is beginning to seep through. The recent Policy Exchange analysis of spending and the rise in debt is another dab of the oars. The longer Brown stays the more time there is to find him out. Next time ask Darling, he's a little more honest than Brown and hides the lying less well.

John Shannon

You're a brave fellow, Fraser Nelson, and I like your guts. Facing off with the Brute - were you quaking just a little? I think I would have been. It has been shocking to discover that the PM's legendary fiscal rectitude as Chancellor was a sham; and to hear and see him pretend that his government's management of the UK economy has been sound, and is better than anything the Conservatives will do after they win the next general election, is breathtaking. PS - I read your column religiously, first thing, when the new issue of The Spectator comes in the mail. You, Rod Liddle, James Delingpole and Jeremy Clarke (OK, Taki too) are my favorite writers there.

Nicholas

I watched it. It was a valiant attempt. The whole mood of the press conference seemed to be that the journalists were not swallowing Brown's crap. And it was pure, unadulterated crap. But there is just not enough honest, incisive, investigative reporting like this. And, above all, what there is is masked by the BBC's superficial but omnipresent and government line echoing coverage. I was staggered today by the sheer number and ubiquity of pro-Brown Labour mouthpieces that popped up across the BBC, in the street and in the studios, bleating the same party line. The BBC gave Brown's defence team plenty of opportunity to get their message across, disproportionately so in my opinion, and there was little or no independent analysis of the situation.

Brown is a deceitful liar but his lies, whilst exposed, do not yet seem to have become common currency and the BBC continue to distort the picture.

NickL

The great part in the clip is his look of fear when you announce yourself. He knows that at least you are on to him.

Short the UK

I think the biggest disgrace in British journalism has taken place at the Financial Times who went along with Blair & Brown all the way.

FT = F***ing Terrible.

Shame on the FT!!!!!!!!!!!

David

The next stage must be to ask Darling the same thing. He is not as delusional and occasionally honest. This creation of his own reality has finally been called over the last few weeks but the damage it has done over the last 10 years is incalculable. Keep it up as long as he is around.

Sam Armstrong

Well done!

bernard from horsham

Brown is an odious liar. His father should have taught him what telling the truth actually means. Brown thinks dissembling for party interest is ok. The man is deluded/

Stephen

What is so wrong with journalism today that 'no Fleet St newspaper ... spotted them [the cuts]'?

strapworld

Mr Nelson, You did extremely well. You hit home.

May I say that you are in a far better position to get through to Cameron that he MUST take this issue to PMQ's.

Get Brown to deny his own budget within Parliament then hit him right between the eyes.

To have to tell people that you are honest makes people ask the question, WHY should he say it? He is a liar.

A presbyterian liar.

Laura Mac

Fraser, now you've experienced how hard it is to nail Brown down, will it be reflected in your next commentery about PMQ's? Instead of you criticising Cameron you'll have a new found understanding of the task he faces and how good Cameron really is.

labourwipeout

Dont fret Fraser we know what Brown is up to and you exposed him brilliantly.

R.McGeddon

PUT IT TO HIM LIKE THIS, FRASER

Gordon, oh Gordon you’ve taken us for fools.
You lied about Prudence and your ‘Golden Rules’.
You plundered our pensions and decimated our savings,
We’re fed up of listening to your ‘global’ ravings.
Blair claimed you’re a genius; he lied to us too.
The ‘British’ economy is in deep doggy-doo.
‘No booms, no busts !’ you used to shout out.
That was all hubris, of that there’s no doubt.

You bang on and on about your Presbyterian daddy,
Born a son of the manse and raised in Kircaldy.
Now how would he regard you, with disgust or with pride ?
Seeing you’ve got friends such as Draper and McBride
You say your ‘moral compass’ isn’t pointed toward sleaze,
But what about Darling, McNulty,Malik,Moran, Smith and Blears ?
Of the Top Twenty Troughing MPs, NuLabour’s got SIXTEEN !
Sir, your Cabinet is rotten - you’re nowt but a has-been.

Now,if you’d like us to show a scintilla of affection,
Screw up some courage, CALL A GENERAL ELECTION !

mart

Keep going Fraser.

It would definitely be good if some of your financially savvy counterparts among the broadcasters could devote their time to this and similar topics.

hadrian

Get the Telegraph and the News of the World onto it, laddie!

Nick Kaplan

A valiant effort. I wouldn’t be too disappointed you didn’t get a truthful answer; apparently getting truth from Brown is about as likely as getting blood from a stone even when he is being ‘candid.’

Prodicus

John Shannon - exactly my reading pattern! :-)

Nick

It's not true that no one else in the MSM has noticed Brown's duplicity regarding spending plans; Martin Kettle wrote an article in yesterday's Guardian making exactly your point.

"Now he (Brown) is preparing to fight an election on a deceit too, pretending that only a Conservative government would cut spending while implying that Labour would not. The honest divide between the parties, as Darling perceives, would be between Labour cuts and Tory cuts. The argument would be about scale and priorities in reducing the debt, not about caricature – or even lies."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/04/alistair-darling-replaced

Verity

Gawain addresses Fraser with "Stop beating yourself up", which reaches the outer edges of lunacy. Where did you get the impression, Gawain, that Fraser intemperately thought he was to blame for Brown's performance?

What an odd, odd post.

I agree with John Shannon. That took a quick wit and nerves of steel given the ambient circumstances and the power of the Prime Minister.

Jeremy

Quite extraordinary.

With government debt at the level it is, I simply do not understand why Brown should think it virtuous to assert there will be year-on-year rises in public expenditure. How is this to be paid for? From where is the money to come? It doesn't make sense. My view may be simplistic - and I certainly would not claim to share your own economic literacy - but I simply do not see how you can keep on borrowing and keep on spending ad infinitum. Sooner or later something - the centre - will fail. And you will simply be declared economically unviable. Bankrupt.

Even if what Brown said to you were true, it is still breathtakingly irresponsible of him to pursue this path at this time. He will simply end up bankrupting the country. And the political consequences of that will be as disastrous as the economic consequences.

I think that what you demonstrated by taking him on - on the point you did - is how important it is for the future of the country that it rid itself of this Labour government.

Mike

Well done mate!
Saw it and heard you - but next time,smuggle in a loud hailer and use that!
Keep it going - this crook is nearly at the edge.

TGF UKIP

Brilliant, Fraser, and can I suggest you make this the centrepiece of your NoW column on Sunday.

Can I also suggest that the next time Brown is due to appear on Marr, or with any of his other BBC mates, you not only e-mail them with the question and the IFS briefing but tell the world via the Coffee House and your Screws column that you suggested not only putting the question to Brown but making him answer it.

In the meantime your mate Dozy Dave had better get real so volatile and uncertain is the way ahead. It is now quite possible that he has only until this October not next June to disclaim what will definitely otherwise be "Tory Cuts."

We know the Pusillanimous Pair positively shrink from taking on Gordon in any economic argument but unless they do so, and quickly, they will thoroughly deserve what their Labour opposition and its host of media friends will dish out to them should Dave manage to not screw up winning the GE.

wrinkled weasel

I have watched Brown responding to this kind of broadside before - Daniel Hannan comes to mind though his amounted to a fully crafted philippic- and it is clear that Brown cannot help grinning when this happens. He also crosses his arms at a crucial point, which is a classic sign of disengagement and discomfort. This together with a faked smile (the eyes and mouth don't match), and the fact that he momentarily looks aways when he says "No, not at all" tend to suggest you hit the mark.

Brown has learned a few counter measures in the body language game, but not enough to hide his obvious discomfort and the fact that he has told you an outright Brownie.

You did your homework on this one. Well done.

Andrew Zalotocky

Well done Fraser, but you need to go further. Brown is a liar and you should take every opportunity to call him a liar to his face. You should take every opportunity to spread this idea among your fellow journalists, that Brown is a blatant liar and it is a virtue - indeed, a duty - to call him on it.

occasional ranter

Well done, Fraser. The truth about the national finances is something that Gordon is unwilling to face, and lazier journalists just find too difficult to master, but when the expenses scandal fades and Gordon is still there in No.10, the economy is what will decide his fate.

occasional ranter

Verity: I can't see your problem with Gawain's post. He's picking up on the self-deprecating comments Fraser himself makes, e.g. "all I can say is that today, in what may well have been my last chance, I did try. And I can't say I got very far".

How pompous do you have to be to call Gawain's supportive post "the outer edges of lunacy" or "an odd, odd post" ?

Do you find it difficult to work in teams, by any chance ?

Daniel1979

I caught your piece the other day so I knew what you were asking, and I think you caught him a little off guard.

Thanks for asking the question - His lies must be exposed, even if it takes a while and may not happen until he is out of office; what is important is that people can not be duped in the same way ever again.

Steve.W

Well done Fraser, and especially well done Prime Minister too. May I call you Gordon? I note you said to Fraser that you had read one of his articles in the Spectator, so I'm thrilled you are reading this. Please note that what Amanda (fifth post down on this forum) says about body language was as we saw it on YouTube. I'm sure it was just a bit of poor camera work that makes your body language look as if you are shifty. One of my (ungrateful) family members says it looks as if you have stolen something, they mumbled pension funds. But, with your background at the manse, how could that be? Anyway, nice to see you, mind how you go, there are some very dodgy people out there.

Michael Sweeney

I saw the press conference Fraser and noted your question. You were right to ask it, but it seemed a bit technical (referring to the IFS) and allowed him wriggle room. Can you not point to a page in the budget that proves the point and ask him (or his successor, or the Chancellor), to justify that spending will increase post election? However, the issue of spending is going to dominate domestic politics before and after the next election, so you're absolutely right to keep going with it. Brown's performance was the weirdest I've ever seen from a senior British politician though. Strange days indeed.

Verity

Hadrian, what a bizarre post! Surely you know that The Speccie is a Fleet Street publication in its own right?

Do you not know that Fraser has a regular column in The News of The World? Do you not know that The Telegraph is a sister publication of The Speccie?

Laura Mac writes: "Fraser, now you've experienced how hard it is to nail Brown down" apparently not having followed Fraser's articles and posts weekly and daily over the last couple of years.

She goes on: "Instead of you criticising Cameron you'll have a new found understanding of the task he faces and how good Cameron really is."

See, Fraser? Despite being a seasoned political journo with a national audience and years of experience in political evaluations, it takes Laura to assign your priorities!

Laura, speaking for myself, David Cameron is a pr director who is getting it all wrong because he has misread the market - normally a capital crime in the pr world. And that's how he sees the electorate: as a market. He is not driven by beliefs.

But his policies are already being practised by the socialists, and that's the Heir's problem. The ground is already occupied. He's nipping at the bottoms of the same market and ignoring the huge numbers of Tories out there who are wanting a Leader.

If Brown implodes and Johnson runs, he'll win. He has bloke appeal. Meaning, women like him. Lefty women who would otherwise have stayed glued to the reality telly would get off the couch to vote for him.

We'll see what happens.

NodtoBob

Keep up the good work Fraser. This guy is the most mendacious politician we've ever had, but then again what else can you expect from a son of the manse. Makes me ashamed to be a Scotsman, that's for sure. The next year look's like it's going to be a real drag. It's the fag end days of John Major all over again.

Tim B

Fraser:

constant dripping wears away a stone.

Keep up the good work.

Enough ammunition and someone can use it where and when it hurts and he can't deny it.

Alan

Watched it live, Fraser. You were superb.
Thank you.
Why don't we get this type of interrogation more often ?
New fan here.

Verity

NodtoBob - "This guy is the most mendacious politician we've ever had ...".

Were you sentient when "Tony" Blair was PM?

Jamie

Fraser - thank you for at least trying.

crown blog

Fraser

I captured that and used the word 'nail' in the caption because rather than let him mislead with the talk of cuts, you shout out over his answer. When Brown has his figures challenged he gets rattled. The last thing a liar wants is his lies being exposed so clearly.

This area needs to be exposed, because Brown is either a liar or does not understand the figures and I want neither in the PM.

griff

Words, words and more words about economic matters are difficult to comprehend. Most journalists do not want to show their ignorance - they might ask a financial question but can't follow it up because they do not fully understand the issues. Frazer says:

"To remind CoffeeHousers: Brown had Darling mislead the House in claiming spending would rise by an average 0.7pc a year in 2011-14. The truth is that it will be cut by an average 2.3pc a year over this period - actual cuts of £22bn a year".

Can't these numbers be set out on paper in a simple fashion and handed to other journalists to take up the cudgel.

Ray

Thanks, Fraser. You're a national treasure.

Lee Jakeman

In the very first post, JohnAnt was spot on. Where is the Tory party in all this? Aren't they the ones who are supposed to raise such issues? Why is it left to a lone journalist like yourself to make their case for them? It says a lot for you personally, Fraser, but it doesn't say much for the Tory party, does it?

EC

Fraser, I saw this.

I loved that sneer of recogniton you received when you announced yourself.

You managed to get him in a Half-Nelson but he was never going to answer your question. You must have been tempted to lob one of your shoes at him.

DaveB

Presbyterian Son of a Manse? Lying Son of a B*tch is more appropriate. Nice one Fraser - best part of that press conference. And nice he admitted to reading your work.

If an ex-chancellor (and soon to be ex-PM) can't even get his council tax claim right (assuming 12 rather than 10 installments a year) how the hell could he have been trusted with the nation's finances?

EC

Tiberius,

Was that really George Osborne I saw sat next to Dave at PMQs last Wednesday? He looked so pale. I wonder why he's not been allowed out recently.

Chuck Unsworth

Fraser. Courage, mon brave. This is a long war - mostly of attrition rather than offensive action. It's the cumulative effect which will do for Brown and his cohorts. I admire your efforts, but you should watch over the broader horizon, too.

Let's be clear. Press 'Conferences' such as this are viewed as platforms by Number 10 - in much the same way as PMQs are. So, as always, it's about news managment, information control, propaganda.

The pity is that most of the MSM have colluded.

Idleness and greed, eh?

Michael Judd

Well done Fraser,
You got your point over.
i saw it live on TV. From where you were at the back you could probably not see him squirm. He had "lie" and "guilt" written all over his face. Like a cheat caught in the head lamps.

David Ossitt

Fraser Nelson; thank you.

Brave; audacious, a superb performance keep up the good work

Moraymint

Just shows ... he's a brazen, lying b'stard ... the epitome of The Labour Party.

Michael Booth

Have to agree with Verity's comment on Blair, but Brown is just as mendacious without the flair. Can't add much to what others have said Fraser, but well done - you tackled the beast and once again showed him to be delusional, dangerous and and out and out rogue. Keep up the good work!

seb

Adam Boulton alluded to Brown's lying in an interview later in the day with Tony Benn. The tape recorder that does service for TB's brain spouted the usual Brownite drivel - Tory cuts will make thousands homeless while the privileged find their bank accounts brimful with loot.

Brown is relying on this lie to gull millions of voters to remain loyal to him in 2010. I wondered, as Fraser put his question to Kirkcaldy's Leading Autist, whether many voters would not in fact completely fail to understand the point about Labour's own spending reductions. Brown, though lying, was at least lying in childishly simple English. He said he's heroically ramping up spending, so Fraser and the Institute for Fiscal Studies must both be deranged. 'I'm afraid I can only take one question from you. Next!'

One of Boulton's problems with Tony Benn was that the cerebrally challenged People's Champion cannot conceive of the connection between a state's expenditure and state's income. Shoshalizm, even of the Brownite variety, is a permanent moral crusade. Critics are Beelzebub's minions.

oldtimer

Well done Fraser! I watched it live on Sky. Highlights for me included:
1 the pained expression on Brown`s face when you identified yourself;
2 the barefaced lies explicit in his reply to you.

You were right to raise the issue but it remains a difficult one to get across. As for Brown`s mendacity it is clear that the lobby is now willing to point it out in plain terms re Darling`s position - even Mr White of the Guardian admits it. They know it is a lie from their personal experience of No 10 briefings over the past week. That is why Cameron was right to concentrate on it at PMQs.

The other sense I picked up, watching the occasional cut away shots of the journalists, was of disbelief at what they were hearing from Brown.

Talwin

Fraser, you doubt the value of your own question if people may not know what you were talking about.

Well, I speak as a frequent passenger on the Clapham omnibus, and I can tell you that although all the fine detail of your intervention may not have been immediately familiar to all of us, you displayed sufficient knowledge of your subject, confidence, passion and frustration which, when allied to the words "...cuts that you plan..." that the thrust and importance of your question were abundantly clear.

Not only that, Brown's charmless response, body language, impatience and pathetic attempts to deflect the issue to the Tories merely added to the veracity (and effect) of what you were saying.

Well done.

(Nick Robinson to note)

teledu

Anyone who has the courage to call Brown a liar over something like this and who gets sued, will receive a small donation from me to help with legal fees/compensation. I'm sure many others would do the same.
Keep at it Fraser and well done. I watched the whole thing and couldn't believe how supine some of the press were in their questions. You shone out. Brown may be able to bluster with words, but his body language and facial expressions show him up for the charlatan he is.

Jonathan Cook

I watched this live at the time and thought you did a brilliant job.

In major set piece interviews, you have to wonder why people like Andrew Marr and Nick Robinson do not question these very key points which you put into the public domain ages ago.

Keep up the good work.

Frank Goddard

Fraser,you did very well with that question to he Almighty liar of politics.You should now get together with Cameron and Osborne and dicuss this vital point with them and not let Brown off the hook.
Remember,Brown due to his arrogance thinks the General Public are "MUSHROOMS,kept in the dark and fed on shite",they have always done this as it is part of their secret policy manifesto.
Frank Goddard...English pensioner..

Martin Griffin

Fraser, I think you were very brave, however the man lies consitantly and he had control of the microphone. So why not put the facts on one sheet of paper and email / publish / web sites etc. it everywhere and to everyone. Given the way the man treated you go for him but under your control.

Ian C

I am afraid you were too polite Fraser. I would like to see you to get allies to go after him wit you and go at him along these lines:

"In the 2009 Budget forecasts the Chancellor plans for cuts in total spending of 2.3% pa (or £Nbn), as confirmed by the analysis completed post-budget by the 'IFS'. What services will you cut by a cumulative 7% in the 3 year period after the next election, if you are re-elected?"

Rexel 56

Fraser

Surely Cameron will not push the point with Brown because he is banking on Labour being stupid enough to continue with the "Spending vs Cuts" narrative during the election.

Brown will not lsiten and will not hear Cameron talk repeatedly about bringing "thrift" to government. He just won't understand that the electorate has seen through the 12 years of so-called investment and understands that national debt has to be fixed. The national debt crisis will be to Cameron what the Unions were to Thatcher.

The irony is, as you point out, that the Brown-Darling spending plans won't be so very fifferent from Cameron's!

Hannah

Dear Fraser,

I was delighted to see your question yesterday. You really rattled his cage and his hollow response was in stark contrast to his lofty words about being taught by his father to always tell the truth. He looked quite green after he had finished with you and utterly broken when he left the room.

Whilst I don't like to watch anyone looking so down and out on a personal level it is importsnt to keep fighting Brown on this. I am quite sure that his delusion is becoming a real problem. He is not fit to lead and you need to keep your good work up.

Thank you again, Hannah.

subrosa

Aye Fraser you have Brown on the hop and he knows it. His body language says it (Wrinkled Weasel explains that) and the fact he actually remembers the contents of your articles.

Keep at it laddie, all is not lost.

wrinkled weasel

Brown regularly lies and falsifies figures or merely, makes them up. Nobody ever seems to challenge these. For example; "We are lifting children out of poverty" a phrase he regularly uses, and today was no exception. According to official figures, Labour has failed in its keystone policy of abolishing child poverty and the facts are that they have not made a dent in it. In 2002 Brown boasted that Labour had lifted 1.2 million children out of poverty (what this means I really do not know) but the BBC were reporting the figure was nearer half a million. So, a doubling of the actual figure. More than doubling. In March, 2007, The Independent reported

"Child poverty has increased for the first time in six years, prompting fears that ministers will miss their target of halving the number of children living in poverty by 2010. The statistics are a huge setback for Labour and were described by charity Barnados as "a moral disgrace"

And in May this year the same paper declared,

"The full scale of Labour's failure to help the poorest in Britain was laid bare yesterday with revelations that hundreds of thousands of people were being plunged into deprivation even before the recession hit, and that the Government had been unable to make any impression on the numbers of children and pensioners in poverty." (The Independent)

He is a serial liar and all this "Son of the Manse" and "Presbyterian Conscience" schtick does not wash with me and probably does not wash with most of us.

Again, more journalism like Fraser's would mean a breath of fresh air in the foetid miasma of fawning and fear that is the Lobby.

Nicholas

"In major set piece interviews, you have to wonder why people like Andrew Marr and Nick Robinson do not question these very key points"

Because Marr is a pro-Labour activist and Robinson buys information and access at the price of independence. They also reflect the current British trend of serving themselves rather than the people.

John Page

Well done. Hopefully your journalist colleagues listened attentively. Din any of them say anything to you afterwards?

Simon Stephenson

Well done for your question yesterday, Fraser. The problem with Brown is that his whole raison d'etre is built around the lie. He's not like a shrewd statesman who will use lies sparingly in order to facilitate decisions that he KNOWS are correct. He's more the con man for whom the choice of information to be passed on is determined by its effect on the balance of advantage between him and his enemies. In a battle for advantage the simple truth is never going to be as effective as the most poisonous fabrication. And to him, you're either a supporter or you're an enemy.

It's the same flawed judgement that President Bush used - you're either with us or you're with the terrorists. And the qualification for being "with us" is uncritical support for everything "we" are doing.

But, as I've written before, the question we, the public, should be addressing is not "how do we get rid of Brown?" but "how do we re-construct our system so that people like Brown do not reach positions of power?" We've enough evidence that the system doesn't guarantee good results; now what we need to do is convince 90% of the population that what we've got is so corrupted that it is NEVER going to evolve into anything better.

DM

I watched it live on Sky and inwardly cheered when you raised it. His face when he realised it was you was a picture. He tried to dismiss you as a policy geek. He will not pick you again for a question (or two) but if he does, keep exposing the brownies. More of us are watching these live pressers (life is an addictive political soap opera these days) and if they are getting uploaded to You Tube, so much the better.

Simon Stephenson

Nicholas 1.19pm

I think it's also true that all the mainstream media consider that they are part of a collective responsibility for, let's call it, UK Development. There's a trade-off for being part of this collective one side of which is that one is well-rewarded and supportively praised by other members, with the other side being that ones opinions are required only ever to made in a way that is not derogatory to another member of the collective.

So, every member of the collective is talented and wonderful, except that some are more wonderful than others. It can't be otherwise because this would mean that the collective was not impeccable in its selection of members.

Too much boat-rocking won't cause the stability of the boat to be investigated, it'll just bring about the ejection from the boat of whoever's rocking it.

Hoolio

Did I hear the BBC R4 news correctly at 6pm this evening where it was reported that Brown in Normandy, as veterans and onlookers booed him and one shouted, "where's the Queen", said that D-Day represented "a victory of truth over lies"?

I can't decide if Brown is a latter-day Stalin or a Goebbels.

Eddy

The trouble is, Brown wasn't really lying was he? Isn't it the case that one type spending is increasing year after year in the budget, but it is capital spending (?) that is being cut? I can't remember, i'm sure it was in an earlier article.

Perhaps you needed to be that specific in your question.

Simon

Good try.... it cant be easy when you have big brother controlling the microphone. Brown was incredibly patronising and rude to you - despite all the nonsense about him being honest and not arrogant.

Simon Stephenson

Eddy 9.34pm

Yes, you are correct, and I for one was wrong to write (3.42pm)that Brown's whole raison d'etre is built around the lie. I should have written "the deception", not "the lie".

The New Labour approach to persuasion, and particularly that of the current leadership, is that deceptive and misleading communication can nevertheless be described as "honest" as long as there is scrupulous adherence to a rule not to tell outright lies. And that therefore it's acceptable to use any "truth" in furtherence of the cause.

I really don't think that this is how the general public would categorise an honest person - someone who never told a lie, but spent his whole life trying to deceive others. So we ought to challenge Labour to establish that there is a relevant difference between them and the rest of us that makes it legitimate for them to behave in a way that we would consider dishonest.

James Barr

Thank you for asking a question that no other journalist will ask/is capable of asking for fear of souring their 'sources'.

The political class treat us like children. They brief against each other and then appear on television saying what wonderful people their cabinet colleagues are. It's utterly pathetic. You journalists know this but allow them to get away with it.

The biggest issue in politics is not expenses or all the other myriad of 'initiatives'. It's quite simply about how politicians waste our money. They treat our votes with disdain and are never held accountable for the criminal manner in which they piss our money down the drain. If you want proof of this read 'Squandered'.

Of course Labour have never understood the difference between investment and spending. And, they never will. The time has arrived for a revolution in how our country is administered. David Cameron is talking about an era of thrift. I hope his policies match the rhetoric.

We are adults. We know the country is royally f****d. What we want is a politician who will give it to us straight. If people have to lose their jobs so be it. That's life. The New Labour project was nothing more than a playground utopia. We are paying a very heavy price for their economic madness and lies.

Are the Tories up to it? Only time will tell.

Simon Stephenson

Well written, James Barr (1.53pm).

We maintain a belief in this country that the people that lead us are blessed with both competence and integrity. We explain decisions that we disagree with as being due to a divergence of priorities. There is a code that no decision is ever intellectually poor, nor is it ever for the furtherence of a cause that is not virtuous in its own right.

It may be that our society is not robust enough to challenge the accuracy of this belief. It's a big step to flip from being content that ones system of preferment is fundamentally sound to acknowledging that it cannot be. Maybe, even now, we'd do better to put these critical thoughts out of our mind.

On the other hand, we might recognise that just over the horizon there are some very hard choices to be made the pain of which will only be socially bearable if it is generally felt that the government of the day could have done no better. Not least of these choices will revolve around the realisation that we cannot for much longer expect the developing nations to pay the costs of maintaining our welfare state.

So we're on a bit of a knife-edge really - are we strong enough to ignore our inadequacies, or are we strong enough not to!

Let's start the discussion now.

NotaSheep

The revelations contained in today's leak to the Conservative Party show that you were right in June. I hope you will be raising this matter with Gordon Brown at the earliest opportunity.